Jason Yates is a 35 year industry veteran from behind the chair to marketing to manufacturing, education and sales.

He is now the president of John Paul Mitchell Systems.

And today we're going to hear all about his story, how he got to where he is and what, what he's seeing into the in, into the future, in the current state of the industry.

Welcome back to the Hair.

Just a strong show.

My name is Robert Hughes and I am your host and today I'm with Jason Yates.

How you doing today, Jason?

Doing good, Robert.

Thanks for having me on.

I'm excited to be here.

Absolutely.

Thank you for joining us, all the viewers and listeners that are tuning in.

I met Jason at Beauty Gives Back.

Shout out to Maria.

Definitely.

Check out Beauty Gives Back.

It's an awesome event.

I got to hear your story, Jason and I was running in and out because I was doing like little interviews.

What I did here, um, I thought it was awesome and I'm excited to have you on the show to so that our viewers and listeners can hear it and see it for themselves.

Thank you.

Thank you again for having me on.

I really enjoyed the event itself.

You know, it was, it was great to see so many young hairdressers excited about this wonderful industry that's given so much to me.

You know, I've been doing this since 1990, 35 years since I started as an apprentice hairdresser in the uk.

Feels like a long time, but it's also gone like that and it's just really, it's been such a fantastic journey and it really is an incredible industry that we get the pleasure to work in each and every day.

And I, I just love to do anything I can to give back to the industry that's given me so much.

Awesome.

Well, we had a, we had a pre conversation and, and you kind of already opened us up into it.

So I'm going to jump right in and say so like you're now the president of John Paul Mitchell Systems.

But you also said you start, you were behind the chair.

We talked, said that in the opening.

Can you tell us like, how did that happen?

Like how old were you when you got into it?

How long did you do it for?

And any sort of highlights of that time?

Yeah, sure, sure.

Well, first of all, I want to mention that I'm still an active hairdresser.

I still have an active license at super important to me.

I don't want to be the person that says I'm a hairdresser if I'm not a hairdresser.

You know, I mean, to me, I take the profession very seriously and all the success I've had, a lot of it is down to being a hairdresser and understanding hairdressers.

And that's why it was super important for me to align with a company that values the professional beauty industry and values hairdressers and as a focus of making hairdressers successful, behind the chair.

So, yeah, I got started in 1990, I was 15 years old, almost 16, from the UK.

So in the UK we graduate high school usually at 16 years old.

But because of my birthday, I was still 15 when we finished the school year.

And for me at that time I never thought about going to college or furthering my education in that respect.

I felt I was a creative person.

I wanted to do something where I was around people and I was naturally just drawn to hairdressing and had excellent advice from my parents.

They said, if you're going to become a hairdresser, let's make sure you get an amazing education.

You want to have the best education that you can possibly.

So I actually did an apprenticeship which is pretty typical in the uk.

We do have trade schools, but we also do a lot of apprenticeships and I, I really enjoyed the apprenticeship route.

For me it was very good.

It was very hard and very long.

We worked basically you're working in a full time salon at real pace.

The good thing about that is obviously you're learning at a real pace in a real salon scenario.

The hard thing about that is, know you basically work from when the salon opens to the salon finishes and then you do your training after the salon finishes.

So your days are super long.

I don't think I worked harder than those first three years it took me to become a hairdresser.

So it didn't happen quickly.

You know, when I came to the United States many years later and saw that, you know, in nine months you could become a hairdresser, I was like, wow, I wish my journey had been that quick because mine, it was tough.

I actually trained at a group of salons that were local to the area I was in in the uk and they were the premium salon in that area and they were called John English.

They had 22 locations and I was one of like 40 apprentices who got taken on in that year and only like six apprentices actually made it through the program.

It was tough and demanding.

But what I liked about it is it really, it weaned out the people who kind of just fell into it.

It really, you know, you, you really needed to want to Be a hairdresser and love this industry to stay into it.

So, yeah, it was, it was a very good education.

I got, I, I got to learn on the job, I got to see very talented people each and every day.

And yeah, I, I ended up staying at that company until I moved to the US which was about 12 and a half years.

So from age 15 to the age 27, I worked for that group of salons.

I started as an apprentice and I worked my way up from becoming a junior stylist.

A stylist.

I was a salon trainer.

I was a salon manager in my early 20s.

Then I became an area manager.

And by the time I left the company, I was running all the locations.

So it was good because I got to see everything A to Z, what it takes to run a salon.

So not just being behind the chair, but started learning more about the business and all the challenges businesses face.

And it was a really good education.

At the same time as I was working behind the chair, I also entered a hairdressing competition in 1995.

It was a national competition and I was very blessed.

I won the competition.

And the prize for winning that competition, it was sponsored by a manufacturer and the prize was I got to be on their autistic team for a year.

So then it exposed me to a whole different scenario of what the beauty industry can do for you.

So instead of just being behind the chair, working with guests every day, I now got the opportunity to educate on a platform and again, I got to work with terrific artists and it really kind of inspired me.

And I got to work with some great mentors who led me to believe that there's so much more that I could do in this career.

So, yeah, I got on stage a little bit.

I did a year of doing hair shows and I was very nervous.

I was terrible on the mic, terrible in front of an audience.

But you know, like anything, you do it, you work hard, you get better.

And that, that was really an exciting time for me.

At the same time that I was doing the hair shows and working in the salon, the company that I work for also started to carry a brand new innovative product which was coming out of the US at the time.

You got to remember, this is a long time ago, this is in the 90s.

And I don't know, Robert, if you remember this or if any of your viewers remember this, but there was a product called Sunglitz, which was actually made by Farouk Systems, which was the world's first ammonia free lightning system that you could do a highlight service.

In 15, 20 minutes, which in the early 90s, we thought was super innovative.

And it was.

It was years ahead of its time.

And our salons wanted to use it in our salons.

But the owner of the company said, well, I'm a startup company.

I don't have a distributor in the uk.

You're my first customer.

You.

You have a warehouse, you have 20 salons.

Would you like to be our distributor?

So we became the distributor for this fledgling US brand.

And the reason that's important is, again, it got me to learn how to do other aspects.

So instead of now just working behind the chair and doing platform work, now I had to, you know, create marketing campaigns for products.

I had to be the salesperson because we didn't have a sales team, and I had to be the educator because we didn't have an education team.

So I kind of became the one.

One trick pony where I knock on a salon door, present the Sunglitz products to them, show them how it worked, be the educator, and then close the sale.

So it, again, it kind of tested my skillset, and I got to learn a lot.

I got a lot of rejection, a lot of doors slammed in my face, but it kind of taught me a lot, and that set me up for the later opportunities that came in my career.

And as this US company started to grow in the US and grow in Europe, they invited me to go onto their autistic team, which was where, in 2001, I got invited to the US for the first time.

So at this stage, I was 27, and I came out to the US and within five minutes, I was like, whoa, this is the place to be.

I mean, it's definitely the land of opportunity.

I'm very proud to be an American.

I say I'm an American by choice.

I love this country.

It's given me so many opportunities.

But when I first came here, I just loved the energy around the hairdressing industry.

I went to a big hair show, and we didn't have anything like that in the uk.

I mean, there was so much excitement, and I got to be on a platform.

It was really cool.

And the US Company that was growing at the time said, have you ever thought about relocating to the US and, you know, coming to work for me as I grow my business in the US and this was Farouk Systems.

So it was in the, you know, early 2000s.

And by that time, Farouk Systems had the sunglass products, they had the BioSilk products, which I don't know if you're aware of.

Yeah, I remember.

And then just right place, right time, I decided I felt I was at that point in my life where I'd worked behind the chair in a salon for a long time, was very successful, did well.

I couldn't really grow any higher within that business.

And it was either I go and open my own salon or let's go and work in the US for a year and see how it works.

So I decided to join Farouk Systems as an artistic director.

And it was right at the time where the Qi Iron came out and the company just exploded into growth in the early 2000s.

And the company, like a lot of small companies that grow quickly, they don't have process, they don't have infrastructure, they don't have people.

So very quickly I was brought in as the art director, but I was writing education manuals, setting up, you know, shows, events, product development, more.

I mean, we learned.

So my education there was, was great and terrific and yeah, just, just in the right place, the right time.

And during my time at Farouk, I started as artistic director.

I was there for just over 10 years where I got more involved in sales and marketing, and I became the vice president of sales and marketing for that company.

So it was a pretty good sized company.

I want to jump in.

Okay, so I want to go back.

I got a couple questions to kind of bring us up to this.

So first question is about what you just.

What you were just talking about.

So the process.

You do your training, you do an apprenticeship, you work in a.

You work in a salon, you work your way through the salon, you grow in that salon, then you get on an artistic team, and then you're working in that space for a while.

You get this opportunity to work with this other new product and brand.

And that is what it sounds like is where a pivotal part of your professional life is occurring.

One first question.

How long were you.

Did you work with Farouk Systems?

Yeah.

How long?

And just in general.

Yeah.

So I worked for Farouk Systems as a full time employee and that's when I moved out to the US to live and work in Houston.

10 years.

I was an employee of Farouk Systems until I joined Paul Mitchell.

And I've been at Paul MITCHELL now almost 13 years.

But I did work with Farouk Systems as a UK distributor and I was an educator for them.

So I got kind of paid freelance.

But I decided to make the big, pivotal career decision to leave the uk, leave the salon and go and work in a haircare manufacturer.

I always said I never wanted to work in an Office.

And like, here I am, I'm in an office.

I have fun and I still travel a lot and I still do some hair.

But it's ironic.

So everything I knew.

So I believe it or not, like, I am, I.

I go and talk to students in schools a lot and, you know, the rising stylists or the future professionals or the.

All the different names that we have for the up, like the future of our gen.

Of our industry, and they have.

I've been recruiting and going to the schools since before, like, I think.

Let's see, when was it?

Like, 20.

2010.

Is somewhere around 2010?

I.

No.

Did I stop?

Yeah, somewhere around 2010, I stopped going to visit the schools and then I started going again in like, 2017.

So I skipped a whole, like, basically Instagram happening, basically.

And when I came back to go to the students, talk to the students, they really want.

They want very different things.

Like, everyone's like, oh, it's the same generation.

Say the same thing about the pre.

Previous generation.

It's like, I'm just telling you my personal experiences.

When I ask them what they want out of their career and out of their life, it's a very different, very different answer than what they say now.

And what they're saying now is, includes dynamic, like, career, multiple revenue streams.

They like the idea of working at a salon, but they also like the idea of working with a brand.

So I imagine that a lot of what you've done might sound pretty appealing to a lot of the people that I talk to.

And I think a lot of people I talk to like the idea of having some sort of working with a large established company and maybe having their own business and maybe work for somebody else.

I think that people are trying to evolve, like, their pursuit of happiness.

But anyway, so I just kind of put that out there.

I think it's kind of cool what you've done, and I think it's really cool that you look so young.

I don't know.

I'm not gonna ask you how old you are, but, like, that's a huge bonus as well.

I'm 50.

I just turned 50.

Not well.

Happy birthday.

Thank you.

Thank you.

You're welcome.

1990, I was 15, so.

Yeah.

Oh, yeah.

35 years later.

All right, well, when's your birthday?

It was in August.

Yeah, August.

Okay.

Happy birthday.

I.

I think I saw you in, what, September?

So I was fresh 50 then.

Okay.

Get used to it.

Well, it's nice to see a relatively young person at the top of one of our companies and it's also really nice to see someone who is very young get into the IND at a young age, get into the industry and kind of roll through so many motions and is completely self made.

And I think this is like, it's an awesome, this is super, I'm super excited to be having this conversation with you.

Thank you.

Okay.

Yeah, I mean, it's, I, I'd like to say, you know, I'm very blessed.

You know, the industry's been so good to me, given me great opportunities and you know, I think I said this Robert at the event where we met.

You know, I've seen a lot of talented hairdressers that I've worked with through the years that perhaps haven't gone on to have the career I've had.

But it's not because they weren't talented enough.

It's, you know, you got to have that drive, that, that courage, you know, to take those opportunities.

You know, I missed a couple of opportunities earlier, believe it or not, in my career that I didn't do because out of fear.

And I think that's the biggest thing that holds people back is fear of failure.

Feel it.

Fear of what if it doesn't work?

If I can give anybody any advice, it's like, you know, believe in yourself.

It's like if I've done it, I mean, like, anybody can, can do well in this industry if they have the passion, the hard work.

There's no shortcuts.

You know, you're not going to get there unless you work harder than the person to the left and the right of you.

It's all about hard work and practice and reputation and just improving your skill set.

What would on, since we're talking about this, why on this note, and in the same vein I have been.

My experience so far is it seems challenging for people to get like Diana Varvara, the director of the Paul Mitchell School in New York City.

I'm one of my favorite people and she says all the time you have to have two feet on the bus.

And, and it, I, I, I think that that's pretty hard for like young, these, the, the students that I speak to.

You know, it's almost like they want to, they feel like they're sacrificing their own identity for somebody else.

And, but like, could you have had your experience if you didn't get two feet on the bus?

I mean, it sounds like you, when you joined a team, you joined them.

But I mean, correct me if I'm wrong or add context or whatever.

Yeah, I mean, I Think I'm following you.

I mean, it's going back to like, there's no shortcuts to success.

You got to work hard.

You know, I, I, I was a very good hairdresser when I was behind the chair.

I mean, I won competition.

I was talented.

I wasn't the most talented.

I mean, I've worked with people.

Their hands were so brilliant and amazing.

As much as I practiced, I was just never there.

But, you know, I went on to do more things than them.

And honestly, I just think it's like application and just, you know, that attitude and just roll up your sleeves and just, you know, at first you don't succeed.

Just try, try, try and just.

I really believe in hard work.

I think it's super important.

And I think, you know, the people that have that quality and that, that mindset, they're going to become successful eventually.

And it's not an easy path and you're going to get lots of doors slammed in your face, but it's how you react on the hundredth door slammed in your face.

You should be as enthusiastic on the next door as you were on the previous, you know, ones.

And, and that's hard.

And it beats you down.

Sorry.

I don't know, I think, I don't know if I'm being clear.

I'm, I'm speaking about loyalty, like how joining a company and being loyal and not being like working on your own side, gig on the side, or trying to.

Okay, you like trying to be part time here.

Part time, yeah.

I've never, I've always dedicated myself.

I'm all in kind of guy.

So 35 years.

I've had three jobs.

Right.

You know, from 15 to 27, working for the same salon behind the chair.

When I was as far as I thought I could go, it was a tough decision to leave.

Then I went to Farouk Systems.

I was there 10 years.

Tough decision to leave.

But that was to come here where I've been for 13 years.

And this is the place where I want to be forever, hopefully, until they kick me out because I'm too old.

And I like that.

That's, that's, you know, I'm a loyal guy.

I don't like change.

I, I like to feel that, like I'm part of something and my teammates and, you know, I, that's why I like working together with people.

That's why I first got into the industry.

So that's important to me.

But yeah, I mean, I listen, everybody's different.

I, I would say, you know, I've seen it a lot in.

In my career in corporate America especially.

I'd say the last 10, 15 years with a lot of younger people that I've hired.

They want it now, and it's okay.

Yeah, it's great to want it now.

But something.

Sometimes it takes time.

You know, it takes time.

There's no divine right to get all of these things to happen right now.

You know, if you think you can accomplish that, absolutely, go for it.

I'm just saying in my life experience, that's what I've seen work.

I've seen a lot of people that want to put the time in to get to that next run on the ladder and they'll jump to another job and maybe they go three runs on the ladder.

But the important part is as each run on the ladder teaches you lessons and prepares you for that next step.

And if you go from here to here, you're only going to disappoint the people who hire you here thinking that you have this kind of ability.

But unfortunately, you might have lots of talent, but there's.

There's nothing that beats experience and wisdom, which comes with putting the time in and putting the effort in.

And, you know, I've seen people who've been with me been great, young, promising marketing people, super talented, but they can't wait.

And they use.

I worked at Paul Mitchell and they get a much bigger title.

It's a smaller new company and maybe more money.

But then the company's like, well, I thought I was getting somebody that was more experienced.

You came from a big company and, you know, they end up either getting fired or demoted or.

And then they'll call us and, hey, can I come back?

You know, it's so.

It's a good lesson, but, you know, I think everybody's individual, but in my experience, I.

Sure, you can move.

I moved pretty fast in my career, but I never asked anybody for a promotion.

I've never asked anybody for a raise.

You know, I wanted to be offered the promotion and offered the race because I just performed at such a high level, I kind of made the decision easy for them.

Nice.

That's.

That's great.

All right, well, I appreciate your insight and your.

Print your thoughts on that.

I try to collect everybody's thoughts on this topic, and I was you.

That was so brilliantly said.

Okay, so you kind of also set us up for the.

The next piece is getting into John Paul Mitchell System.

System, sorry.

And tell us, like, how.

Tell us about, like, how did you get into this position?

What was that like?

What was.

What.

What is your.

Your track like?

Yeah, so.

Yeah, absolutely.

So, you know, this one thing about our industry, it's.

It's definitely.

It's.

It's a relationship business.

Right?

It's, you know, it's.

It's a big industry, but certainly within the manufacturing and the distributors and the top salons in the country, kind of everybody knows each other.

So your reputation is important.

And at the time when I got the call about joining Paul Mitchell, it actually came from bsg, who's the largest professional hair care distributor in North America.

The president of BSG was John Golia at the time, this is back in 2012.

And he and I had forged a good relationship.

I was leading sales and marketing at Farooq, and BSG was our largest distributor.

But the relationship we forged didn't come from having a terrifically good business together.

It was actually.

We had a lot of issues, a lot of problems.

Farooq flip flopped a lot with who was doing his distribution.

So it created a lot of tension between BSG and.

And Farouk.

But because of the relationship I maintained with John and how we worked through those issues together actually strengthened our relationship.

And John called me in early 2012 and said, Listen, Jason, I really enjoy working with you.

I don't love who you with, and I really think you should be with Paul Mitchell.

They're a terrific company.

They love hairdressers.

I think it'd be a great place for you to land.

And they are currently looking for somebody to take over their marketing who is relatively young and has good experience and understands the industry, and I think you'd be a terrific name to put forward.

So he recommended me to Luke Jacob Ellis, who was president here for 30 years, and John, Paul and Michaeline DeJoria.

Michaeline is the current CEO who's the daughter of John Paul DeJoria and my boss.

So, yeah, I, at the time, I'm a loyal guy.

By then, I'd only had two jobs and, you know, 20 plus years into my career.

And I talked to my wife.

I'd actually only been married one week at the time.

So a lot of change happened in my life at that time.

So I'd just gotten married and told my wife that there was interest from Paul Mitchell and I was pretty happy where I was at.

But she said, jason, this is Paul Mitchell.

You know, it's like, this is a special company and she's not a hairdresser, but she.

Paul Mitchell.

When you talk to people about Paul Mitchell, even consume people who are in the industry, they still have a big smile on the face.

The brand's such an iconic brand.

It's so well liked and respected.

She said, just talk to him.

What have you got to lose?

So I talked to Luke and Mike Lean on the phone and I ended up flying out to Los Angeles for an interview.

Kind of felt really guilty, like I was cheating, you know, because I was still employed by Farooq.

But the minute I walked through the doors at Paul Mitchell, I just felt this like amazing energy.

I of course known who the Paul Mitchell company was for many years and admired them and their success.

And they have kind of like a cult like following.

We always say, like, Paul Mitchell's the biggest kept secret.

Everyone that's in knows, but the people who are not like kind of look back and like, well, that's kind of cool, but I don't get it.

So anyway, I walked through the doors here at Paul Mitchell and just the energy that greeted me, it was incredible.

You know, they offered me the job on the spot.

I lived in Houston, Texas at the time and I, I said, let me talk to my wife.

I flew back and my wife said, go for it.

You haven't stopped smiling.

Let's do this.

You know, I think it's going to be a great move for you.

So thank God, you know, and good advice from my wife and I.

So I joined the company in 2012 as the Vice president of marketing, you know, and again, you know, back then, you know, I have no marketing degree.

This is like the biggest privately held beauty brand in the world.

And John Paul wants to put a hairdresser in charge of marketing.

So, you know, says a lot about how much he thinks about hairdressers.

You know, most companies won't do that, you know.

So anyway, I come in in 2012 and I went from Baruch Systems, that was good company and had grown well and also was very professional focused to this company that had all these resources.

I mean, Paul Mitchell is more established.

You know, the marketing department was like three times bigger here than where I'd come from.

So I had all these resources and so many smart people around me.

I was like, are you sure you want me in charge of all this?

But anyway, it went very well.

And you know, needless to say, within two years they saw that I had abilities beyond marketing and they, they gave me sales responsibilities.

So sales and marketing.

And then because I'm a hairdresser, I got education.

And then the president, who, Luke Jacob Ellis, who's a great mentor to me, I got to work with him for nine years, told me about eight years ago, like, you're going to be my replacement.

You know, I'm going to start really grooming you now.

You're very good in sales, marketing, education.

I'm going to start teaching you some other areas of the business because I think you're going to be a terrific president, which such a great, nice vote of confidence, you know.

And I loved it because for like those three or four years after he really kind of honed skills that I didn't have before I didn't even realize I had, he woke parts of my brain up that I didn't realize even existed.

And yeah, so I took over as president in 2000, 2021.

So what's that?

Four years almost.

So four years I've had the pleasure and privilege of being the president for this terrific company.

And you know, I get to work really closely with our schools as well.

You know, we have 115 schools, we graduate over 10,000 future professionals.

And we're super invested in the industry because, you know, as iconic as the brand is and as well known with consumers as it is, we absolutely, absolutely need hairdressers because hairdressers are the, you know, the lifeblood of the company.

That's where our innovation comes from and it's where our credibility with the consumer comes from.

Even though the industry has been a little challenged in recent times and it's certainly been hard for them with Take home, I still think that salons is super, super important to the lifeblood of any professional beauty company.

Nice.

Awesome.

So what would you.

My thought is, you know, just considering like this has been an incredible opportunity to hear your story and I loved it so far.

And because we're coming up on, on our time, I think it's a good place to do some kind of like wrap up stuff here.

So, so we got, so we got your story, how you got to where you are.

First question, how.

What do you attribute to your success?

Let's say the top three to four things.

We.

I'm sure there's more, plenty, but maybe you only have one.

I don't know.

But that's one question.

I mean, I think I've talked a lot about just working hard, being humble.

I think it's super important to be humble and realize you can be good at some things, but you're not going to be good at everything and to be constantly open to learning from people around you.

I think I said this at the event as well.

During my career, I've often learned things from people who have less experience than me.

New people to the industry because they have a fresh approach and they're not preconditioned.

So I would say being humble, being open, working hard, those are three huge, huge ones as far as success, not taking credit for things.

I think even if perhaps you were a main driver on something, celebrate as a team, you know, and then if there's something going wrong, you know, and there's, there's an area of weakness, do that in private, you know, celebrate successes together as a team.

Build the people around you.

Don't build yourself.

Let, let the team do that, you know, think kind of comes back to being humble.

Nice.

Awesome.

And do you, what do you do for.

Do you have any, like, practices for time management or burnout, like handling that?

Yeah, yeah.

I mean, I naturally, I was kind of a workaholic.

You know, I'm just, I'm a very competitive person.

It's just the way I am in anything I do.

I want to do it well and be the best.

And so I'd often kind of work too hard and I didn't have a good work life balance.

One of the biggest blessings I got from John Paul Mitchell Systems is they're really big on work life balance.

And we say often that our most precious resource as a company is not our products, it's our people.

And having a healthy workforce that has a good work life balance is super important.

So I also try and practice that myself.

It took me a while, it took me a couple of years to get into the Paul Mitchell way of doing things, which is, you know, don't work 12 hours a day, seven days a week, it's okay, you know, work eight hours, go home, spend time taking care of you, spend time with your wife, spend time with your family.

They're really big on that.

And it took a while for me to kind of unplug for my crazy, you know, way of working.

But that's something that I'd attribute to, to productivity and longevity because eventually you can burn out and you become less effective if you just tired because you just work too much.

So I have to have that healthy balance.

I've really, as I've gotten older, started to try and take better care of myself physically, mentally, take time to kind of relax, working out, eating better, you know, all the things I didn't do when I was in the salon, you know, so busy in the salon, I barely eat, know I just drink coffee all day long.

So those are things I think that are important and I wish I'd have done Some of those things earlier in my life.

Totally awesome.

Well, thank you so much.

We did, at the beginning of the episode, we did say that we would talk about the state of the industry.

I don't know, we do have, you know, seven minutes or so.

So why don't we, why don't we do that?

Why don't we end this conversation with what you, whatever you can provide for us in that amount of time, the current state of the industry, whatever that means to you.

Sure, sure.

Well, I mean, if we look at the data, I think it's.

And if we look at the reality, I think salons, like many businesses, are finding it challenging right now.

You know, frequency of visit I would say is down.

Average client spend is down.

However, when you compare the beauty industry and the salon industry to other industries, we're faring better than most.

So I think there's a silver lining.

I also think we've got to remember it's our profession is something that just can't be replicated anywhere.

You know, the relationship you have with your guests is a special one.

And I think you have the ability to draw those guests back as long as you give a good level of service.

So I do think there's a silver lining.

Inflation has been very high.

Credit card debts, it's an all time high.

And we always said for so many, the beauty industry is recession proof.

I changed my mind on that.

It's not recession proof, but it's recession resilient.

So that's kind of getting raw and getting real.

But I do see, I mean the industry the next five years is predicted to grow.

Uh, it's, it's not a huge growth.

The CAGR is like 4%.

So the compounding annual growth rate is about 4%, which isn't huge, but it's growing.

So I think hairdressers and successful salon owners are going to navigate through it.

It's like anything when there's a shakeup.

The businesses that aren't run that well, yeah, they, some of those might close.

They might, but I think that's very cyclical.

In lots of industries and lots of businesses, there's always that time where business is easier and then the time when business gets hard.

And I think the time when business gets hard, it forces you to innovate and reinvent yourself.

And I think even if I look at John Paul Mitchell Systems business through Covid and all those pressures that we faced, we're a stronger, better business now than we were before.

And I honestly think that's the same thing of Our industry, I think it's the same thing of salons and stylists and beauty schools.

You know, a lot of beauty schools have really felt the pinch recently, has been a lot of regulations on for profit schools.

And, you know, it's, it's, it's been tough.

But I, I do feel good about.

We're on the, I think we're on the backside of it now.

And I feel like the future's definitely bright.

And I think what's important, if I could say anything to your audience, is it matters who you partner with.

You want to partner with, you know, a distributor, a manufacturer that is focused on you, that is focused on your success.

And I think if you can find that kind of a partnership, it's going to help you as opposed to focusing on somebody that's got many other lines of revenue where they're not really looking at the hairdressing channel as their main source of business.

So, yeah, at John Paul Mitchell Systems, you know, I think I started with a.

Stylists and hairdressers and salons are important to us and we want to continue to innovate to help hairdressers be successful behind the chair because we know if they're successful, we're successful.

And I think I'm testament to that, being put in the role that I am to run this company.

And it's not just me.

We have many hairdressers in our executive team and throughout our organization, as well as all our talented future professionals, artists, artistic directors.

And we're all got one mission and that's to give back to the industry that's given us so much.

Awesome.

Thank you so much.

I think that's a great place to sign off.

I want to thank you again for your time and this has been great.

Yeah, thanks, Robert.

You know, it was pleasure meeting you.

And I, I like everything you're doing.

And yeah, I like the hairdresser strong.

I, I think we are strong.

Yeah, I think, you know, it's, it's, it's been a challenging few years, but hairdressers aren't going anywhere.

People are always going to need us.

That's right.

We made it through the pandemic.

Exactly.

Yeah.

Thanks, Robert.

Happy.

Thank you.

Thank you so much.

And I'll talk to you later.

Yeah, okay.

Thanks so much.