So what's up?

What's up?

I'll tell you what's up.

Is that I've been preparing this sermon.

Oh, yeah.

For this weekend.

I took on a challenge because I thought it'd be fun.

I mean, it is in a way, but it's a challenge because we've been doing one chapter of Daniel a week, and now I'm doing four at once, so it's different.

I thank God because he gave me kind of the outline.

I was complaining to your wife, actually.

I was like.

I'm like, half me is like, awesome.

I took this challenge, and the other half of me is like, what did you do?

Because at that time, I didn't really have an idea of what I was doing.

I mean, where I was gonna go with it.

That's all.

Yeah.

And then God was like this.

I was like, what's up?

Hold on.

And I took another look, and I was like, okay, I can do that.

And so I've been working on filling in the blanks.

I did a.

What I call my rough.

Rough run through, which is when I just take some.

My kind of general outline, and I go and I try to do it like a.

Like I'm gonna preach it just to see how long it will take and see how it feels and where I might want to adjust some things.

And it was okay.

It was like 40 minutes, which isn't.

All the goal would then be like.

As you get fine tuned, it then gets shorter.

Yeah, that's how summarizing works, considering that.

Nick usually goes over 40 minutes.

I'm not bad with.

You know, he does.

It's not supposed to.

You know he does.

I know, but it's not supposed to.

Considering I'm doing four chapters at once, I might allow it to go a little longer than I normally do.

Lizzie's gonna rip your head off.

It's gonna do what it's gonna do.

It's gonna be fine.

If she can handle nick for over 40 minutes.

40 minutes.

She's tired of handling it.

No, it's okay.

Yeah.

So it's just been.

It's been a lot of mental stuff right now that, you know, amongst.

You know, just life.

Life, man.

Always busy.

How about you?

How you doing?

Okay.

Yeah?

Yeah.

I'm ready to get into a normal routine again.

I don't really know what that looks like, though, because I'm not gearing up towards the festival, and I've kind of been doing that this whole time.

Yeah.

And you went and did crawdad, right?

Yep, Crawdad.

And Music Fest, Ozark, Alabama.

Yeah.

Crawdaddin Music Festival.

Do you eat some crawdads?

No.

No, no, no.

Why?

I don't do seafood at all.

No shellfish.

No seafood, dude.

I'm shellfish.

In fact.

Shellfish.

In fact, that is.

It smells so gross.

It doesn't.

It smells like good.

Smells fine.

No, they sat behind us with it and it was gross.

Lizzie tried it.

I wasn't even going to pretend.

Nope.

I love it, man.

I like seafood.

I like crustaceans.

But I mean, I also come from a place where we believe we're the only ones that know how to cook crab.

So.

I mean, you probably have the market on it.

I don't know if you guys are the only ones, but you.

At least we know how to do it.

It's actually the same way I cook crawdads.

Yeah.

Yeah.

That's disgusting.

It's just gross.

Yeah, it's the lobster of the creek.

It's so good.

Yeah, it's gross.

It's a poor boy lobster.

It's awesome.

Yeah.

Anything that's.

No.

Anyways, that's gross.

No, I did not have any.

Any crawdads.

In fact, the only thing I ate that day, really, was a few pieces of chicken and some French fries.

We got, like.

We shared.

Me, Lizzie and Serenity shared six pieces of chicken and two little trays of fries.

And it was $40.

Yeah.

Fair festival stuff is expensive.

Oh, my gosh, dude, it wasn't totally not worth it.

Like.

Yeah, I would have rather gone to like, Dollar General and like, scarf down anything.

You said it was crawdad and music.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Most of the music festivals I go to, they.

The food there is ridiculous.

It's not bad, though.

A lot of times I go and it's like really good stuff, but, like, it's just pricey, you know?

I mean, it was a music festival, but it's not like a music festival.

Like, I don't know.

Not at the levels that I go to.

Yeah, well, I mean, it's also a small town.

Yeah.

Right.

So last year I think they saw 16,000 people, which is not a small amount of people.

It's a good amount for a small town.

But this year I didn't see 16,000 people.

I think we saw maybe 30 to 40 people walk up to our booth.

That was it, really.

And we were on the main street.

Yeah.

Did you make some sales?

Not really.

I mean, I did make a few.

I made enough to pay for my trip expenses, like the gas and all that.

But it's all part of getting it started, I think.

Yeah, I've seen worse.

It was rough, but I learned a lot.

I mean I learned a lot of things about it.

And the fact that like festivals are not gonna be my main thing for sure.

Like they will be for marketing and networking more than anything.

So.

Yeah.

But it'll be good.

It's alright.

So now you're looking for trying to figure out what your normal is right now?

Well, yeah, kinda.

I mean I need jobs, I need people to send stuff my way.

I made a couple more cups for your wife just to practice on.

They didn't end up looking the way they should because the settings weren't set quite right.

As in I forgot to change the diameter of the cups.

But it'll at least give her an idea.

I'm just gonna give them to her to have.

But it'll give her an idea of different colors.

Cool.

Because I did a turquoise and a dark blue, so.

Right on.

Yeah.

I, I'll tell you something I realized is that I, I've been really lazy with my downtime.

Yeah.

Like I, I, I definitely need to get myself into a better mind frame of just, you know, just because I'm off work doesn't mean that I can just not do anything.

I feel like lately I've been.

Actually as of lately I've been trying to pick it up, which is good.

But like.

Yeah, I definitely spent some, A lot of times just coming home and like watching a show or something.

Yeah.

Just kind of.

Yeah.

And it's, that's not helpful.

Yeah, no, it was.

It's kind of tough because like I took Monday and Tuesday off this week and then people were not available to hang out.

So it was like, this is the worst because not only am I alone, but I'm also not doing anything worthwhile to keep my mind busy.

So I ended up going out and paying grant for the machine.

So that was a hefty chunk of money that's now gone.

Dwindled into the hundreds now into that account.

Well, you just build it back up.

But you paid the machine off, right?

Oh, there you go.

See?

Yeah.

Now it's all up from here.

I'm all paid off.

That's awesome.

I don't have a business license yet, but I'm working on getting that probably this week or next.

And then I've been.

Today I worked on starting just like a business plan.

Yeah.

And it's nothing like fancy or anything.

Very short and simple, but just something to keep me like focused and on track.

Be Running it by a couple of guys, but.

Yeah, well, you know what you should have done?

Started with that, probably.

Nah, you should have eaten some of them crawl dads.

So anyway.

No, that's disgusting.

You pulled.

You pulled a card.

I did, I did.

I pulled a card.

This is a Faith Journey card, which is the yellow card.

Faith Journey.

Okay.

Imagine you were talking to someone who had never heard of God.

What would you tell them?

Oh, man, you could run for days with this.

That's what I'm saying.

Like, I mean, it's.

Yeah, if I.

They never heard of God.

Wow.

Okay, well.

Yep.

Okay.

I got a couple different approaches, but man, this is gonna be good.

What would you do?

Oh, no, no, no.

I pulled the card.

You answered the question for me first.

That's how we've been doing it.

That's fine, that's fine, that's fine.

All right.

So I think.

I mean, there's different approaches.

At least you answer it first.

I think there's a couple different ways I might go about it, and it really depends on maybe the person that I'm in front of.

For instance, if I feel like they are more science minded or feel like they can handle those kind of things.

I might point out the fact that science shows us how beautifully balanced our existence is and how fine tuned it is, and that realistically it shows intelligent design.

And that is way more probable than the chance because the chances behind it are astronomically against it.

And then from there introduce who that designer is and then talk about, well, he did do this.

And not only did he do that, I'd probably move from there to Jesus.

Once you establish, if nobody's heard of God, once you've established a God figure, then you got to go with God's plan.

But I mean, that would probably also unfold.

Introducing the idea that we fall short of him.

For someone who isn't really there, I think it would go with the.

I think I would probably do the more of an emotional approach.

And what I mean by that is we look around the world around us and there's two things.

There's things that are incredibly beautiful and wonderful and capture us in our hearts and feed our imagination and creativity and our love.

And then there's things that we can tell are not right, that things aren't wrong, they shouldn't be the way that they are.

And I would probably talk about the fact that all that comes from the same place.

We have an internal conscience that points to the person that gave it to us.

God created this amazing world and we can see his works all over it in the beauty of the mountains and the vastness of the sea.

And there's so much to love when it comes to art and music and just how we can have relationship with one another in ways that no other creature on this planet does.

And then you have the awareness that there's things that happen that aren't right, that people do things that aren't right, that there's this deep knowledge that something is wrong, that we don't even necessarily have to be told that it's wrong.

We just know that it's wrong and explain where that comes from as well.

And kind of the same approach is once you get that, you know where these things come from, you know, the reality is, you know, if there is a God, an entity like that that is, that did make everything and give us all these things, whether you look at scientifically, emotionally, or maybe a different approach, then we are subject to that person.

They make the rules.

And that means we have to look at those things and see where we match up.

The problem is that we don't and we fall short because of that.

We either can redeem ourselves or we can't.

But the reality, and the funny thing is that we really can't do it ourselves.

God loved us so much that not only did he make this amazing world, he put it in perfect order, in scientific precision that we can't even calculate properly, but he gave us the way out, that is by sacrificing himself, coming down, laying Himself down, sinless for those who sin.

And it's only by relying on God for quite literally everything, for our daily bread, for our needs, but ultimately for our salvation that we can be saved.

It's when we finally give over every piece of ourselves to him that we truly get what we've been designed to have.

And also on an emotional basis, the fact that we, we strive for relationship, and ultimately the relationship we want more than anything is with this God.

And that's how we get it and the benefits therein and the hope of the future that we're promised as an inheritance.

Yeah.

I'd have a radically different response.

Somebody told me they never heard of God.

I'd be like, what?

That's what I would say.

You just say what?

I would.

I just would start with, I mean, where do I build up from?

Yeah, no, totally, totally.

Yeah.

I mean, I think I'm thinking about the fact that somebody doesn't have an idea of what God is like.

I understand, like somebody not knowing the Christian God or knowing who Jesus is like, I can kind of.

I can see that being a thing, but never having heard of God, like just in general, that.

That kind of blows my mind.

Like, that would be not saying it's not possible.

I'm just saying, I mean, is it possible?

Yeah, it's kind of crazy.

But then I would see that as divine privilege.

And what I mean by that is that if I actually were to come across someone who genuinely has no idea about God at all, I would see that as especially being the person I am in what I do.

I would see that as God putting that person in my life to then be that person that sows that seed.

Whether I can help them actually see fully what I'm trying to get to them or not, I get the chance to start planting seeds.

The Bible tells us that in his own way, God basically reveals himself through everything.

You got general revelation, the fact that we can observe what he has created.

Then you have special revelation.

The things where he actually interacts with people, the Bible itself, Jesus coming down, those things are incredibly important.

And I think anyone can start to grab hold of those things.

I think that's why my main two approaches are either logical or emotional, is because those are two ways that I think a majority of people can relate to one way or another, if not both.

See, I tend to stay away from.

I try to stay away from the emotional side.

And the only reason I do that is because a.

Emotions block things sometimes.

Oh yeah.

And sometimes emotion can cause someone to go along with something even though it's not genuine.

And so I'm not saying that.

That's always.

I'm saying whenever I am involved, a lot of times that ends up being the case.

And it's like I didn't want that response because I was pulling on emotions.

You know what I mean?

I don't want to do that.

I'd rather somebody be like, oh no, this makes sense.

Versus and that's just me.

I mean, that's how I think too, right?

I mean, emotional.

You definitely don't want to try to trick anyone.

You're not trying to be.

You're just displaying and helping them relate on an emotional level.

I mean, that does.

They each have their fallback, their drawbacks.

For instance, a person who has never heard of God but has studied science is going to take some convincing.

You'd have to show them some of the hard science to get them to open up to the idea.

But even then, depending on their heart condition, they could either receive it or reject it.

And emotional, I mean, people they do see that there's something wrong with this world, but there's another hold.

There's.

There's roadblocks in that way.

I mean, the person who sees terrible things happen in this world, and I try to tell them about a loving God, it can be difficult that a loving God can allow such things.

And so then there's more answers and more conversations that have to go in different directions.

And the ultimate thing about all this is it really is.

It relates to the parable of the Sower.

I love it, and I think I might end up preaching on it at some point in the summer.

But the fact of the matter is this.

God basically is telling us.

Jesus tells us in his parable four heart conditions.

You have one where the heart doesn't accept any of it at all, and the devil just comes, snatches it away.

Then you have one where they'll accept it, but it has no root.

And so when the things of this world, and this could be a logical person, start to come at it, since other things are there, it doesn't.

That just takes over.

And then the thorns are a lot like an emotional person, where they love it, they want to embrace it, but then the things of this world start to strangle it, and they will really pull at the emotional cords in different ways.

And it can cause people to reject or have a hard time even accepting.

But then you have the last seed that's thrown on the good path of the good soil.

That's a heart condition that's willing to really open up to this kind of thing.

And then the opening leads to a seed being planted and being fertile and growing, and then that produces a crop of fruit, which is the spiritual fruit that we've talked about before.

You know, it's amazing that he put it so delicately.

But I think it's the middle two that I usually try to focus on when it comes to an evangelistic approach.

The reason I say the middle two is because the one that's on the hard path, that's not going to accept anything.

I mean, you can try, and it's not that I don't, but you're gonna.

Dust off your heels.

But eventually you gotta move on to the next person and you've thrown your seeds, you know, at that point, you know, you know, and that raises another question.

Is like, is there ever a point in time where you stop trying to love on someone or you stop trying to tell someone about Jesus?

I don't think that's true.

But it's no to the first one.

Yes, to the second one.

I mean, I think if they make themselves open to that second thing like to the being told about Jesus again, then, then it's worth, worth your time and effort.

It is sometimes more important just to love on them regardless.

Yeah.

Loving on them regardless is I think is paramount.

But I mean even without.

I think with a hard heart condition, it's whether you can see an opening or not.

If you're trying to force it, it's not going to work.

But if you can, if an opening presents itself, go for it.

Even if they don't accept it.

Again, if you see an opening, go for it.

I never cross anyone off completely.

Yeah.

But just know, just go into it knowing that it's.

There's a probability that they're gonna be close to it.

So that'll shape your.

The way you go about it too.

I was gonna say earlier, when you're talking about the difference between the logical and the emotional a lot of times and it.

A lot of people that aren't don't think logic logically.

Not don't think logically but don't have that like that push, that bend like what I've got like that focus of.

No, it has to make sense.

They probably don't see this this way.

But the logical person you have to break through to.

Through asking questions.

You're not going to out know them, Right.

That's something that you have to.

And sometimes asking a question is in the form of a statement with those people too.

But you have to get them answering and digging deeper into what they believe to the point of you have to understanding.

You have to get them on board with the journey.

Right.

So.

So you have to ask more questions about what they're talking about.

You have to actually think and listen a whole lot more with someone who's logically inclined than the emotional side which the emotional.

There is some questions but there's a lot of like I think you have.

To listen the same amount but depending on the person it could go easier.

The thing is that you're.

I'm not saying don't listen, right?

Like that's not what I'm saying but I'm saying like minute details.

When you're talking to someone who is in the emotional side of things.

If you pick up on them, that's great, but if you don't, you could still get through to somebody on that level.

You know what I mean?

Whereas logically speaking, if you miss the minute details, it you, you won't get through.

Like it's just because at the very least that person will come back to.

Yeah, but this.

You didn't hear me on.

You didn't.

You weren't listening, like.

And so that there's that whole path to.

I'm not saying at any point in time you shouldn't listen to him, though.

Yeah.

You know.

Yeah.

No, I mean, I think that with an emotional person there's a good way to listening, that the better you are at relating and picking up on social cues and emotional cues, then you'll be able to listen better and then enhance any conversation, doesn't matter what it's about.

So it's just a different type of listening.

One's kind of factual, one's just looking and reading a different way.

But both can be beneficial.

But those are the biggest.

Yeah, I think so.

Those would probably be my two biggest ways of trying to go about that.

And once again, it's trying to figure out the kind of person you're talking to as quickly as you can so that you can start to introduce.

I think I have this theory, we'll call it that deep down inside all of us, way deep down, for some, we all know the truth.

I honestly am convinced at this point that every human being in the deepest parts of themselves knows the truth.

But whether they're allowing light to touch it, for it to be illuminated within themselves makes a big difference.

And I think, you know, for the person that's got fertile soil, I think that they're willing to let that light shine and start to take over and move them in different ways.

For the person that's emotional, those can be like ropes that they're trying to tie it down with because this is struggling or this doesn't make sense to them in an emotional way.

For a logical person, they just stuff it down, man.

They stuff it down.

If there's just other stuff that seems more important, it seems like it's better information.

And for the one that's on that path, that's barren path, they won't give it a time of day because to acknowledge it would mean that they are subject to something else besides themselves.

I think that's one of the most terrifying things to them is the idea that they're going to lose control of themselves.

Unfortunately, I believe also that the worst lie that they're believing is that them having control other than God is better.

But that's just me.

Those are my feelings.

That's what I've looked into.

I honestly think that people do know because of the anger I've seen in people who don't that flat out don't want to know.

They don't want you to prove it to them.

They don't want you to emotionally tie it to them.

They don't want it.

That doesn't mean that don't somewhere down there know it.

They don't want it.

There's a refusal, a stubbornness, a pride that's incredibly visible and palpable with someone like that.

So.

Oh, yeah, right on.

Yeah.

Honestly, that's.

That's a really solid, really solid question to start today with.

And I think after we pray, I think that we should go into.

To your rant.

To my rant?

Yeah, because it's a good progression for after you now know about God, the difference between the religious actions versus the relationship.

Okay, I can go into that a bit.

I don't know if I want to rant, so to speak, but I want to talk.

Oh, no, we're gonna rant.

I'm gonna force you into it.

Okay, so maybe not.

But, but religion versus relationship.

I want to touch on that a little bit today and we'll see, we'll see where the, the cast goes, but that's what we're going to do.

So welcome to the Truth response.

I'll pray today.

Father God, I just want to thank you for another day, just more insight that we can have into one another, into you and, and just how to do life and just.

Even if it's an opinion based thing, God, I pray that they are guided by you and I pray that the words that we speak, that they are all for your glory and for your honor, God.

And I want to thank you as always, for the.

Just the vast amounts of grace and mercy and love that you pour on us each day.

It's in your precious and holy name we pray.

Amen.

So.

Yep.

Shout out to my mom.

Shout out to your mother.

So word to your mother.

She listened to our podcast where we talked about how, how and who to approach in correction.

You know the one, I think it was either last week or the week before that.

I think it was the week before last.

But.

Oh, is it the one when we were talking about when people come into.

The church, the drunk and all the different ones.

Yeah.

So.

And the fact that we talked about like if you've got a relationship with them, you know, it's generally more effective.

It's crazy because she went on a women's retreat and that was the argument her and her friend were making against the, I guess fairly common viewpoint in their circle of, you know, you should be able to call Anybody out?

And I was like, we had that conversation.

She was like, it was just crazy to have you guys on the podcast talking about it.

The first thing I listened to afterwards, you know, and it was kind of cool, but I was like, yeah, it's a fine balance.

You know, it's a fine balance, but.

So shout out to my mom, thanks for listening.

Thanks for loving on us and supporting our.

Our dealer.

Jigger.

Yep, our podcast.

And yeah, if you guys out there listening and you have stories that are crazy like that or.

Or even topics that you're like, I ran into this issue.

Yeah, we love that.

Let us know.

We would love to talk about it.

We won't point out any names or anything like that, only to my dearly beloved mother.

I didn't even say her name, so whatever.

But that's okay.

Yeah, so let us know, because that's what we want to talk about.

Yeah.

So before the podcast, before we started recording or any of that stuff you had mentioned, you were tired of people wanting a religion and not the relationship.

And, yeah, I find that very intriguing, that concept.

So it's a very general statement, and it needs some context and some, I guess, some further information.

But.

Well, here's big, basically, what I'm talking about.

But it is a popular statement to hear, like it's a relationship, not a religion and that sort of thing.

Well, yes, it is.

And see, the problem therein is that.

Okay, so, you know, the problem with treating Christianity as just a religion is that you can go through the motions.

I mean, this is one of the.

And I know this.

So a lot of my understandings on this have been formed through what God has put me through in my own life.

And some of the lessons he had taught me, he had to teach me sometimes the hard way.

Whereas, like, you can.

When I was in my teens, there was a period of my life where I was kind of falling away from God and going to church at the same time, which was an amazing phenomenon for me, because I never thought that would be the case.

But I was going to a church where it was a very predictable service.

You know, it was, you know, very liturgical.

Here's what we do here.

This is what happens then.

And they would give you a program, I'm going to call it, before each service, and it gives you the rundown in case you didn't know.

And you could sit there with it in your hand and go, okay, this is it.

Okay, what's next?

Okay, now that's what we're on.

Where are we at?

And what ended up happening is that I knew I was just waiting for the next thing to happen until I could get out of there.

Those are also called bulletins.

So if you're in a church that has bulletins, sometimes I'm not trying to pick them.

I'm not trying to pick on bulletins.

But here was.

The problem is that I was crossing boxes off.

Yeah.

And to the point where like, okay, I go to church.

Yes, I went to church.

I said hello to people.

This is going to happen.

This is going to happen.

This is going to happen.

This is going to happen.

We're going to leave, we're going to say goodbye to people.

We're in shake of hands.

Maybe afterwards there's going to be some kind of Bible study or something like this, and then we're going to go home.

And then that's.

I've crossed all those boxes off this week.

And there's a lot of people that, whether they realize it or not or put much thought into it, they kind of treat Christianity like that, where they're Sunday.

I call them ticket punchers.

And that's making fun of me from the past, too.

But, like, they come into church on Sunday, you know, they've stamped their ticket, they've gone to church, but they live the week and maybe even the rest of Sunday, to a degree, as if that didn't happen.

I want to insert something that is going to step on some toes.

Okay.

Because if in the middle of the service, you're thinking about lunch, you gotta be careful because you're treading on that territory.

Right.

Like.

And I know that that's a very broad statement.

I know that you like to stay away from broad statements like that.

But let's step on some toes because I think that too often there's the churchgoers who have been going to church for years and years and years that fall into this.

They may not want to, occasionally it happens fall into this.

And it.

Where it's like you're constantly just thinking about the next thing.

Yeah.

I mean, I think a lot of people that have gone to churches over the years have had at least a Sunday where they find themselves kind of drifting off and their mind kind of goes.

And then they realize that they haven't been focused.

That happens.

That's not what I'm picking on.

I'm picking on the people that.

I'm talking about the people that are.

I'm talking about those who are there regular Sundays.

Yeah.

Oftentimes it's someone who.

Watching time and that sort of thing.

The Problem really is that the relationship with God isn't the reason they're going.

They're not going to experience him and his people and His Word and His presence they're doing because this is something they do and it becomes a have to and a box checking thing.

And the problem there is that those are the type of people that Jesus warns us about that he's going to go, I never knew you because you never really knew me.

Yeah, you went to church.

Yeah, you heard the stories, but you never actually came here for me.

You were coming here because of something you needed to do.

And it's scary because people don't like to think about it in that way, but there's a truth to it.

You can't be lukewarm.

He warns us of that in Revelation.

Don't be lukewarm.

Don't be little.

Both either before me or not before me.

That would be better for you to just be, just not for me than a little back and forth because you're way more disappointed.

And, you know, so what I see happening, and which is how this, our conversation started earlier, is there's people that, you know, they start coming to Jesus and that's awesome.

And of course that's what we want.

And then there's like, well, what do I have to do?

Okay, well, okay.

And it starts very innocent in the beginning.

Well, I mean, have you accepted Jesus?

No.

Okay, well then do you want to do that?

Yes.

Great, good step.

What's the next thing to do?

Have you been baptized?

No.

Okay, well, maybe that's your next step.

And so they'll move to that point and they'll get that done.

Great.

Now what do I do?

You're going to read your scriptures, you're going to come to church, you're going to study, you're going to start relying on Jesus.

Yeah, but what else do I have to do?

What do you mean, what else?

Well, you could be on the service team.

Cool.

What else do I have to do?

What do you mean, what else do you have to do?

Right.

You need to start letting Jesus move in you.

And the problem is they start turning it into a to do list again.

What do I have to do?

And what can I make sure I mark off on my daily basis so that I know that I'm doing the right things?

And the problem is there are people who, because of their relationship with Jesus, they want to be better.

That's not what I'm talking about.

I'm talking about people that when they look at trying to get better, As a person, what they're really trying to do is do it themselves.

And that's.

I will tell you what I mean.

And I went through this as well.

Okay.

I'm not that.

That psy was not a discounting that part.

Yeah, it is.

I think.

I think that the people that end up there accidentally need to be in that category too.

Well, right.

And I don't.

I mean, like, I understand, like, because it's easier to.

It's easier to, like, talk straight about somebody who is intentionally doing something.

Okay.

But people who, like.

Well, they just happen to be falling into that category now, like, those people are there too, right?

Like, whether they wanted to be there from the get go or not.

The people who have been doing this church thing for 25 years, who are now box checkers, who may not have always been box checkers.

Like, I want to add them into this category too.

I don't want to leave them out of this.

However you want to go about that.

I'll give you my story, but here's what happened.

I was 21.

And I didn't realize at that point in my life, when I turned 21, I didn't realize how I didn't fully fall away from God, but enough to where I didn't realize how I was getting kind of lost in it all.

That being said, a cousin of mine passed away and we had a memorial service for her.

And I saw all this stuff about her relationship with God and it left me there, realizing that she was sure and I wasn't.

And it was bothering me.

A week later, okay, I get invited to.

It was about a week.

A friend of mine invited me to this thing.

It was put on by something I didn't think existed.

Charismatic Catholics and what their whole objective was to help people establish relationships with God.

Cool.

I didn't really want to go at first, but I got told there was food there, so I did.

And God, like, was so.

It was like he.

I know he did it on purpose because I walked in there and it was like he turned a light switch back on inside of me.

It's like all this stuff I forgot, all the stuff I had not been putting in my, you know, as a forefront in my life was suddenly staring me in the face.

And so what ended up happening is I wanted a relationship with God and I wanted to go further in my faith and I wanted to really do this.

I wanted to do this.

But here's the thing is I wanted to do it.

And so what ended up happening was I did things myself I said, okay, well, I have to act better.

I have to watch what I say.

I have to fill in the blank, listen to better music, whatever it is.

And I was trying to do all these things myself.

I didn't even think about it.

I thought about.

I thought it.

This is just what you do when you have relationships with God.

You just do this because you have a relationship with God.

And maybe to agree that that does happen.

But here's the thing.

Some things started to not happen.

Some things started to happen that were not very good, not great things.

And I started getting really confused and frustrated.

And I was complaining to God.

God, I don't understand.

I'm doing all this.

I'm trying to be the person I thought you wanted me to be.

And it was the first time in my life that I can tell you, if I look in my past, I can tell you this is the one time that I know, the first time that God spoke directly to me and he said to me, yes, but that's not how I made you.

And I misunderstood that.

But what God was trying to tell me that day was, you're doing it, not me doing it.

You're not strong.

You can't actually change yourself the way you want to do.

Some people would argue with me.

Some people would say, willpower, you can do a lot of things.

Yeah, I'm sure you can.

That's true.

But what I was trying to do to myself, God needed to do for me.

And that happens through the relationship that I was seeking.

I had to learn how to take a step back and let God work in me to be able to become better in all the different ways.

And he's still working in me.

Thank God that he is still working in me and refining me, because it's a long process.

I am so glad he's patient.

Yeah, for sure.

You know, and I'm sure there are a lot of people listening that would say, yeah, I'm glad God's patient with me, too, because I'm not perfect.

Me trying to be perfect was just setting myself up for failure.

Me thinking to myself, well, I've got this God in my life now, so now I've got to be perfect.

And the thing is, I was building a house of straw on sand that was going to be easily blown over.

The first time I failed the first time, something didn't go right.

And I see people struggle with this all the time.

I've seen students do it, adults do it, where they think that they have to be perfect now.

And then something happens or they do something and they mess up and then they start questioning their whole salvation and they forget that a loving relationship, right, can overcome these things.

And God's grace is greater than these things.

But you only start to learn how deep that grace is, how wide, how amazing, when you give it into him instead of trying to keep doing it all yourself.

And yet my problem is, and I had to learn that the hard way.

This is why I'm so adamant about these things.

It's because I messed up and I don't.

I wish that people didn't have to do what I did and I didn't have to learn it the hard way like I did.

That's why when I.

I see people, I'm like, hey, you know, you really need to relax and you need to let God work in your life.

Just seek him, you know?

You know?

Yeah, that, that, that's.

That's good.

Because, like, the thing that I would tell people, I would suggest to people over all of the things, right?

Like, all the things that could be added as a checkbox is learn to just shut up, be still, and be in the moment with Jesus.

What does that look like?

It could look like a million different things.

Oh, yeah.

It could look like the message is going a little long, but you don't care because you are there with Jesus and he is just talking to you.

Or haven't we done this song four times already today?

Like, it's what it feels like.

There's 15 different times we've done the chorus.

But I don't care.

I don't care.

Because, like, there's a song that we do that's I just want to be in the room.

Right.

Like, or.

Or there's another one that's no nowhere else I'd rather be.

Right.

And it's just nowhere else I'd rather be than here in your love.

And like, I think about that song and sometimes I wonder how many people are just singing that song and how many people really mean it.

Yeah.

Because that, that if you can master that, you can get past all the other stuff.

The last bit of what you were saying, that's what that is.

It's like getting to a point where, like, I don't want to be anywhere, but where.

Yeah, right.

It reminds me of Mary and Martha.

Yeah.

You know, one is at Jesus feet just trying to soak him in and everything he's saying, and the other one is trying to serve everyone, which inherently isn't bad.

Right.

See, that's the thing that tricks us, is that these lists we give ourselves these stuff that we are told that we feel that we need to do.

Good things and things we should be doing.

Yeah, it's not that they're bad things, but when they overcome the ultimate thing, which is your relationship with God, then it can be a bad thing.

And as she complained to Jesus, Jesus goes, don't you try to stop her.

This is where she needs to be right now.

That's baffling to some people.

What do you mean rest in his grace?

There was a day I was cleaning and as I was cleaning I was listening to some sermons.

I listened to a sermon from Rick Warren and I listened to a sermon from Charles Stanley while I was cleaning.

And the funny thing is they preached a very similar message.

And I knew God was talking to me that day and it was kind of about this.

But what they were emphasizing was that people, they get to the point where they've been saved and then they mess up.

They do something and then they act as if they just throw their salvation away.

And they pointed out both of them did in their own unique way.

You know, God, Jesus died for you 2,000 years ago.

He didn't die yesterday when you accepted him.

He died knowing that you could mess up again your salvation.

If it was that flimsy, it wouldn't be worth it.

You needed something stronger.

And God's salvation is stronger than that.

His grace is sufficient for you in your weakness.

He is strong.

His grace overcomes our weakness and we have to let him.

That's the thing is like it's understandable.

Some people don't even look around and realize some of the simple facts about other religions.

Every other religion is works based.

Think about it though.

It's prideful.

Think about that.

Yeah, it is.

But you're also talking about all these other religions, who their covenants are with their people.

Well, okay.

And God's covenants are with himself.

Okay.

But you also point out the fact that, like I'm just focusing on the fact that it's all human effort.

That's what I'm saying.

You know, we have.

Every other religious God has removed that.

Yeah, but yeah, that's the point, Jesus.

I mean, Christianity shows us that.

Yeah, you can't.

That's the whole point.

Right.

You know, it's like the Israelites in the desert.

God gave them manna for the day.

You are to rely on me for everything you need every day, training them to rely on him for what they need.

And the thing is that the Bible should train us to rely on him for not Only what we need every day, but what we're going to need for eternity.

We rely on Him.

Our true freedom is not when we try to take it into our own hands, it's when we rely on him and he makes everything possible.

I love the story when the rich man comes to Jesus, right?

And he's like, I have kept all the commands, right?

Jesus doesn't refute it.

There's a lot of people that will go, yeah, but Jesus knew.

He didn't, you know, Jesus didn't refute it.

No.

So even working off the assumption that he had kept all of the commandments, right, when Jesus said, you know, okay, cool, sell all your stuff, you know, and follow me, that was a step too far, right?

It's like it doesn't matter how many checkboxes that you check, if that's the game you're playing, there's going to be one you can't.

There's going to be a checkbox that you can't, you just can't check off and you're always going to miss one and eventually you're going to be playing this catch up game with yourself.

Yeah.

And you just can't.

And the problem with the guy, the rich man, was that, you know, his, he looked at his wealth and his things and his as his security.

You know, we often can do the same thing.

Well, I need to have these things so that I feel safe, so that I feel taken care of.

You know, my 401k, my retirement plan, that's my ultimate Christian's ultimate retiring plan is not on this world.

Different perspective.

How do you feel about this?

What if he thought of that as his blessing?

Perhaps.

I mean, that that was his blessing and that giving away his blessing.

Right.

Was just too much to ask.

Perhaps.

But let's think about it on a.

For those who have a lot, they tend to think that, that that's security for them, that keeps them.

Sure, sure.

All right.

I also here's something that I probably am not going to have in my sermon for this Sunday coming up.

So this will play on the air after my sermon.

And I don't think I'm putting this in because it doesn't work with my flow.

But here's something that I saw, okay?

This Antichrist that comes on the scene.

And this is in Daniel, this is in Daniel 11.

This antichrist that comes on the scene, he worships something.

It says it's not the God of his ancestors.

He worships the God of fortresses.

Now here's what's interesting about that the fortresses, when you think about it, you think about safety and protection and security.

And then the Bible also tells us later on, Jesus says it, when they say peace, safety, destruction will come, it made me think, take this for what you will.

But it is an interesting point to say that this Antichrist character doesn't want people relying on God for what they need and for their safety and for their security.

But to rely on man on a grand scale, this very thing that this rich man might have been holding onto could have been the other thing as well.

Maybe it's a mixture.

Sometimes we rely too much on our stuff.

It's almost like turning your security into your prison.

Yeah, it is.

And you know what?

Romans, the Book of Romans, Paul talks about this, you know, we.

In different ways.

One of the things that sticks out is when he says, you know, they traded the Creator for the created, that basically instead of worshiping the Creator, they worship the created.

That's incredible.

But that's the truth.

And the thing is that what Romans explains, or what Paul explains in the Book of Romans or the letter of Romans, is that God gives us over to the things that we desire.

And it's crazy.

You would ask yourself, why?

Because he loves us.

And if that's what we're going to ask him for and we tell him, this is the most important thing to me, then he'll let us have it.

The thing is, sometimes we don't know what we're asking for.

I once heard Tony Evans preach about this, and he says, you want to know what God's wrath really is in the Book of Romans?

It's that he gives us into our sin.

He lets us have it instead of stopping it.

That's his wrath.

His wrath is not vengeful.

Like he's sitting there like a kid with a magnifying glass on an ant hill.

His wrath is going, you want it?

You can have it, but you gotta have everything that comes with it.

That's good.

But I also think there's one extra step, and that is he gives you that without hope of anything else.

Yeah, I mean, you get that without him, right?

I think that you get that without the hope that he provides.

Yeah, I think that that's, you know, when I try to make salvation and down to its simplest form, to me, I say it's a choice.

It's a very simple choice.

It's you choose God or you don't.

And he honors you, he loves you, and will honor your decision.

But the thing is, you choose God, you get God and Everything that comes with it.

But if you don't, then you don't.

And Corinthians clearly talks about God being patient and kind.

He doesn't want anyone to suffer.

So without him, choosing.

Not him is choosing to be without patience and kindness and.

Yeah, that.

That whole love chapter.

Right, that.

That we so often hear at weddings.

At weddings.

And, you know, preached it.

You know, marriage weakens and whatnot.

It's a step further than we realize it is.

Without God, you can't have any of that.

And so God's wrath has to be you do you without me.

And that's hard because we get to have glimpses of what love is, and we get to have glimpses of what patience is, and we get to have glimpses of what kindness is.

And all of these different things.

Like right now, even if we don't.

We don't believe in Him, Right.

We get to have glimpses of what that is.

But when we choose to not have him, yeah, it's.

Eventually, we're gonna give that up.

We.

We give up the glimpses of what.

What it is to have Him.

And so, like, that's.

That's part of the whole, like, he reveals himself in all of everything is because you can know somebody who has never heard of Jesus or is an atheist, right.

Believes that God does not exist, who is loving, who is patient, who is kind.

And I know there's a lot of people that will be like, well, that's not perfect love.

And that's not really what that is.

And it's like, okay, but it is like it is, because right now in this world, we are broken.

But get to see glimpses of Jesus in the midst of all the other stuff.

And so eventually, he's taking that back.

Yeah.

And that's where.

If you want more of that here, now, you need to get into that relationship.

You need to let him do that work and show you more of himself and seek Him.

At one point in my life, a mentor of mine said something that stuck with me forever.

He said at the time he knew I was hungry for the Lord and I was running at God.

He called it out.

He was like, man, that boy.

And he motioned at me.

He is like, that boy is running at God and God is running back at him.

I was like, wow, that is amazing.

It just kind of stopped me that day.

And I thought about that, and I was like, I don't want to stop that then.

But for some people, that is when you just pick up and run towards him, let him come at you.

He will reveal himself, he says, seeking the door will be open.

He will reveal himself.

He's not going to keep himself hidden if you're seeking him earnestly, especially with your heart.

Not just that, but he's already there.

Like he.

He's not.

He's not hiding.

And that's the thing.

Like, he's not hiding.

He's already in your midst.

And.

And the crazy thing is that so many people are so caught up in what's next that they forget that man doesn't live by bread alone.

Right?

They forget that man.

I keep going back in my mind to Sunday mornings, right?

There are so many people who are so worried about the service getting over so that they don't miss the line at lunch because there's a lot more people that are that way than the church wants to admit.

We'll just say church as a whole wants to admit.

There's a whole lot more of those people than we want to admit.

And some of us need to really take a look at ourselves and see are we that person?

But we're so caught up in that that we miss that we don't live by bread alone.

Right.

But by every word that comes from the mouth of the Lord.

And so, like, in that moment, are we there present with Jesus or are we having him sit behind us?

Or while we think about everything else that we are in control of in our lives.

Like, I don't know, it's just one of those things that you get so caught up in your minutiae and your everyday whatever that it becomes habit.

And unfortunately, habit's not a good enough excuse.

Sometimes you gotta get out of your comfort zone and experience something new, do something better.

Yeah.

You know, but I mean, it's the thing.

Like, sometimes it becomes an argument when it comes to religion versus relationship.

Sometimes it turns into a works argument.

And, you know, it's interesting how quickly you can make that a works versus grace.

Like, people that are like, well, you know, James says faith without works is dead.

I'm like, that's not.

He doesn't mean you have to earn things.

Right?

Right.

He means that if your faith isn't doing something in you, it's not changing in you.

See, people forget that works means fruits.

And it doesn't necessarily mean outward stuff.

It could be inward too.

Like, if it's not helping change you and move you and helping stoke that fire of desire for you and for God in your life and to understand his scripture, then is it really there?

If it isn't making you push to do things for other people and to be more compassionate and more patient and more kind and more loving, then maybe it's not there.

It should be doing something in you.

That's what James is really emphasizing.

And then people try to then take James and put him against Paul because Paul says it's by grace alone, you know, so that no one can boast.

And he's like, well, then that's.

That's counter.

That's not counter.

Paul expects your faith to move you, but he says.

But he wants you to know that.

It'S just the grace that gets you there.

Like, you just need to accept it.

You need to accept the grace given to you.

Even that stuff is not.

But he expects those who grab ahold.

Of that grace to have that, change them.

Yeah, absolutely.

The whole point of the grafting onto the vine, right, we're talking about the fruit and the works, right?

All of that, like, that's not something you're doing, Right.

You're not the one grafting you, Right.

You're not the one feeding you the nutrients.

Like, none of it is from you.

And yet you're the one who is showing up with patience.

You're the one who's showing up with love and joy and peace and compassion.

Like, you're showing up with this stuff.

But it's not because you.

Right.

It's because of what's been done in you that people are seeing things done through you.

The.

The branch.

If you were to cut off the branch, right, and just let it lie, it'll die.

It'll die.

Right.

It's essentially dead as soon as you cut it off.

Yeah.

But when you do it the right way to graft it onto something else, Right.

Like, it is you crying for help to the right place and the right place.

Feeding that cry for help.

Yeah.

So it's Christ alone who feeds the needs that you have to be able to even have works shown.

So without that, whenever you're trying to do it on your own, it's almost like asking for.

Asking for, I don't know, a glass of vodka when you need a glass of water.

Right.

Like, it's asking for the wrong thing by doing the checkboxes.

It is.

I mean, it's like I said, you know, back when I was.

I never wanted to be a person that just went through the motions again.

And I didn't want to be the person that thought I could do it all myself again.

And it's amazing how many times, even though that's one of the hardest lessons for me, I'VE spoken about this before, but, like, God teaching me again and again.

Hey, let go.

Hey, let go.

Hey, let go.

This is something else that you need.

To let go of.

Let me work here.

You're trying it again, but, like.

Yeah.

I don't know what it is inside us that makes us feel like we need to do things ourselves all the time.

And I think there's a lot of confusion when it comes to my efforts for someone to say, well, I mean, God expects us to do things, too.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

But there's things that you need to learn that they're his, not yours.

Well, and God doesn't expect us to do things in this, like, in this program way.

Yeah.

He expects us to do things when he tells us to.

Yeah.

You know, like, he.

He expects me to, I don't know, teach a class when he tells me to do it, but that's not gonna look the same for you.

So there's not this plan, right?

There's not this.

There's not this bulletin.

There's not this.

Just to use the words we've used earlier, like, there's not this program.

There's not this.

What's the big word?

Liturgy.

Right.

There's not this thing that says, okay, you do this, then this, then this, then this, then this, then this, then this.

No, it's.

The relationship bit is walking through life with God, and when he calls you to it, you go to it.

And then when he calls you something else, you go to that.

And the cool thing is we all get to be unique and on the same path.

It's wild.

It's wild to me that we all are being called in different directions and yet are all going the same one.

You know, it's just crazy.

But.

Yeah, it is crazy.

It's good stuff.

I really think that if you are someone who can just rest in the moment with Jesus.

Sweet.

Walk with him the way that you're walking with Him.

Right.

And no, nobody's perfect.

I'm not saying that.

I'm not asking for that either.

But if you're someone who does get caught up in the thoughts of this song again, or.

Or another.

Another person on the side of the road or.

Preacher went over five minutes.

Again.

Preacher went over five minutes, or this person in line is taking forever.

I want you to examine where your heart is with Jesus.

Are you checking boxes?

Are you checking boxes?

Are you able to be in the moment with Jesus because you don't know what he may want you to do in that line.

Yeah, you mean he may Want you to talk to the person behind you.

Yeah.

His timeline is not our timeline.

It's not at all.

And we want to rush it.

There's a reason for his timeline being what it is.

Yeah.

And so if you're not there yet, let me tell you, there's a lot of people not there yet.

They're in a good company.

Yeah.

But if you recognize it, you're already doing something about it.

And so keep doing that.

Keep moving towards just being able to rest in whatever Jesus is telling me to do right now.

Because that's where the relationship lies, is the here and now.

Because tomorrow's not promised and the past is the past.

So that's my.

That's my two cents.

Two cents probably ain't worth a buck fifty.

But that's crazy.

Crazy inflation math, you know, the whole tariffs and junk that's going on right now.

So, you know, life's crazy.

Tomorrow's not promised and freedom's not either.

So get to know who Jesus is and get that relationship going.

Because nobody knows what tomorrow holds.

No.

And so having him is the best way to move into it.

Yeah.

Whatever.

Tomorrow is.

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