[00:00:00] Nina Endrst: Hi, I'm Nina Endhrst

[00:00:05] Anna Toonk: I'm Anna Toonk.

[00:00:07] Nina Endrst: Welcome to How to Be Human.

[00:00:08] Anna Toonk: A podcast that explores the common and often confusing themes of humanness.

Take a seat, clear your mind and let's chat.

Hello?

[00:00:24] Nina Endrst: Hello. I apologize. I sound like the nanny, but less like the nanny today than I have sounded. So you're

[00:00:29] Anna Toonk: welcome everyone. You do sound better.

Yeah, I am.

Yeah. You sounded like the nanny. I forget what day it was. When you felt better, but you sounded like garbage . I was like, whoa.

yeah, we have, I've never been sick in our relationship.

It's true. You like, literally, you're one of those people who you're like, oh, I don't, I don't feel well, like I'm gonna like rest or I'm going to bed earlier or whatever. And then the next day you're like, I'm fine. I'm like, whereas I'm someone who like gets taken out for weeks, you know? Or like, if there's some rare disease, like it's me, who's gonna get it.

I was glad when it turned into a pandemic and then I was like, maybe I am safe. You know? So it, it really did. It took me a minute to accept that you were truly sick cuz you have a pretty, you know, hashtag blessed immune system. I do

[00:01:25] Nina Endrst: that and I just, you know, don't really put myself in weird. situations or group situations.

So it's easier to not get sick, I think, but germs follow you anywhere. Cuz I don't know where I was, but anyway guys be safe. It's not COVID but still, so we're talking about something actually pretty chill for, well, I don't know if it's chill, but it's definitely less like death

[00:01:50] Anna Toonk: it's less intense maybe plus than are usual, which is fun.

I mean, I, every once in a while slash weekly I get a B in my bonnet and I'm like, I really wanna do that SNA out, just like, okay. and so I wanted us to do love languages cause I was like one, I think it would be fun. And two something that I know that we both feel strongly about are these things that we hear a lot, you know, like people talking about, but it's like.

What actually is that, you know, and I think that the love languages, like obviously it's a little cheese. It is definitely, I think, a bit cheesy, totally created by Dr. Gary Chapman. He is not a man, Gary. Oh, Gar, he's cute. As a button on the five, love languages.com website. He looks, I don't know, a hundred years old conservatively estimating.

And he is a author speaker, counselor. He's a well known marriage counselor. And he created the book, uh, the five long, uh, love languages. Um, so I was also curious like where it came from, you know, like, and I was even asking my own therapist. I was like, our, our love language is like a thing. And she was like, what do you.

What do you mean? and she was like, yeah, we all communicate. And I was like, no, no, no, no, no. But you mean like, I, I was like, I mean, like the love languages, you know? And she was like, no, those aren't like, they're not like, official, like those are it. You know? But I think for the sake of this conversation, and it gives us like a place to start, cuz I don't know about you, but I remember taking this stupid test years ago and being surprised by mine.

And it was like surprising for me to realize that like what I wanted to give versus what I wanted to receive were two different things. And so it, I did find it was helpful to give me a place to start from in terms of like. Figuring some of that stuff out, like, what did I wanna give? What did I wanna receive?

And like how to maybe course correct too. When someone like meant well, or they were trying to maybe demonstrate love in their love language, but I didn't receive it. So I'm curious. Were you just like, love, love languages are like criminally cheesy and I want no part of it or

[00:04:34] Nina Endrst: obviously have we met of course I was.

I was like, love languages. Cool. Yeah. How about just fucking be in love or don't

I mean, mm-hmm man, I'm the worst sometimes, but it's like, I just, I don't know something about this kind of stuff in my brain will just not accept at in, but however, I did take the test, obviously, cause we were, we're doing this. Let's tell them what the five yes. Kinds are quality time. Words of affirmation, acts of service, physical touch, receiving gifts.

I did feel like when I was taking the test, they kept wanting me to be materialistic. And I was like, I kept being like swatting. 'em away being like, no bitch

[00:05:21] Anna Toonk: saying I'm not, oh, that's so interesting. I felt pressured to be materialistic or gift, you know, motivated as well. Yes. And touch. I felt a bit. And I wonder like, did we clock those?

Cuz like, there may be not it for us, you know? Like, or are they really pushing that?

[00:05:48] Nina Endrst: I didn't clock touch as much but gifts. I was just like, Jesus, I feel like I'm playing that game where you like fucking hit the whack mall. Like hippos, you know what I mean? Yeah. I'm like get outta here. Like no I said no.

Like 25 times. I don't give a shit. I mean, is it nice to get gifts? Sure. Once in a while, of course, but I don't, that's like not my jam. It never has been, so yeah. I thought thought that was interesting. I also thought it might be, I mean, listen, what am I expecting from like an online fucking quiz? I mean, that being said, I don't know.

What's the guy's name again? Uh,

[00:06:20] Anna Toonk: Dr. Gary Chapman.

[00:06:22] Nina Endrst: all right. Well, Gary must have, must have poured his life into this. So, you know, I, I thought maybe the questions would be like a little bit less

[00:06:30] Anna Toonk: repetitive. Same. I think they used to be, to be honest, I think they've like, I appreciate that. It seems like they're trying to increase the accessibility and be like, you can improve all your relationships.

Like you don't have to just focus on the romantic, but it did seem to dilute some of the, you know, uh, test or inquiry maybe. So are we guessing?

[00:06:55] Nina Endrst: Yes. Okay. I'm gonna guess first. I think

[00:07:01] Anna Toonk: yours. Well, are you guessing what I want to give or receive? Oh, or both,

[00:07:08] Nina Endrst: but I only

[00:07:09] Anna Toonk: did one. Well, we only did one, but I think

[00:07:11] Nina Endrst: it's okay.

Just okay. Yeah. I'm gonna, I'm gonna guess what you wanna give first then you both wanna receive. Okay. Okay. Well you wanna give, oh God, I mean, you're big on giving gifts, but that's not a, that's not a, that's not one acts of service I would say. Or quality time. What, what I choose, I don't know. You're giving or words of information.

Okay. I'm gonna guess that you are giving

acts of service and you're receiving quality time.

[00:07:43] Anna Toonk: I it's interesting because the. So it was hilarious to me that big gift had clearly given the five love languages, you know, is, is trying to be like the number one thing, cuz it's my least, like, I don't really love receiving gifts, you know? Like, or the gifts that I like are so, um, specific or something like when people are really thoughtful, I don't think I'm an easy person to buy gifts for.

So when someone like gets it right, I am super touched, but I definitely demonstrate love big time. I think by giving gifts, which I thought was like kind of interesting in terms. Of this, but my number one that I like to receive is quality time, which I was kind of surprised by. And I was, it was interesting to me as well.

That's why I got that. Right, right. Yeah. You know, that, that the way I thought it was because I, the, the way they sort of differentiate, I think quality time and access service is sort of interesting, you know, like I think I would've lumped those together. Um, my quality time was 33%. My acts of service was 27%.

And then, um, words of affirmation and physical touch were tied at 17% and then receiving gifts was only 7%. Mm mm-hmm so I think you like to receive. yeah. What would be number one? I think number one is probably quality time for you with number two, probably being

I'm I'm caught between access, service and words of affirmation in terms of you receiving, I think I'm gonna go access service. And then what I think you'd like to give is quality time with words of affirmation, maybe is a sec is a second.

[00:10:20] Nina Endrst: So you are correct in quality time was number one. I was actually surprised because I thought that. Physical touch would be number two, but words of affirmation and acts of service were tied at 23%. Mm. And physical touch was 20% in receiving gifts was 3%

[00:10:43] Anna Toonk: So I think you and I like, what's funny, I think, especially to, with the words of affirmation and physical touch, it's like, I'm definitely an affectionate person, but I wouldn't say, I think it's like picking this, you know what I mean? Like, like, I, it wasn't that I wanted to like argue with the test, but sometimes I'm like, well, sometimes, you know, like it doesn't almost account for moodiness or like, well, with certain people, you know,

[00:11:18] Nina Endrst: oh my God. I mean, so I was thinking specifically about like certain people saying for you. Yeah. Okay.

[00:11:28] Anna Toonk: For sure. I was like cracking up reading my little, like summary as well. That was like, tell me you wanna be seen without telling me you wanna be seen like, tell me what

[00:11:41] Nina Endrst: what's your oh, like the breakdown.

[00:11:43] Anna Toonk: Yeah. Like when it does the little summary or whatever, or it kind of explains it to you at the very end, I just was like cracking up because like the quality time thing I think is like so much of what, like you and I like talk about all the time of like, how hard is it for someone to like, you know, put their phone down when they're listening to you?

You know, just like basic things like that that you and I are like. You know, that was weird or , you know, like we're just kinda like you, or I don't know. I feel like you and I clock that stuff where we're like, did you notice, you know, in that meeting that they were just like on their phone the whole time, you know?

And we're both like, that was weird and yet no one else seems faced, you know, like, yeah. That made a lot of, of sense to me. I felt like my own issues with control and delegation came out around access service.

[00:12:44] Nina Endrst: oh my God. No. Do you do

[00:12:47] Anna Toonk: I'm like, well, just freely, let them do something for me. No,

[00:12:51] Nina Endrst: well, I think an interesting, totally.

I think when, when I got married I was like, oh wow. This is like the biggest fucking cliche of all time. But when way like ETI the dishwasher, I'm like, yeah, you did. Like, I. I'm so happy. And I'm like, or just the little things that he does for me that no man has ever done, but also I know how much he goes out of his way.

Like every time he goes and gets my coffee, he makes sure he does this thing where he'll go a bunch of other places, but then he'll make sure he goes to my coffee place, even though it's out of the way last, so that it's nice and like cold and still, you know, in its perfect state for me. And I'm like, wow, you really just like go out of your way to do really simple things.

But that aren't simple, you know? And it just means so much because once I had a kid too, I feel like. , it's just, it's kind of easy to be romantic and, you know, sexy when you live on the beach in Mexico, just saying like, our relationship was like, basically just a movie, a movie. I mean, it was, we, we had very few responsibilities except for when I was teaching retreats.

And then it was still like a couple of days out of the week and we lived in the, on the fucking Caribbean. Like, it was just ridiculous. You're

[00:14:17] Anna Toonk: both like hot as well, just to like fully make it a movie. That's really nice. Like people must have just pan. Yes. Like people must have been like enamored with you and barfing in the streets, seeing the two of you of

[00:14:33] Nina Endrst: just like, well, I, we were less barfy because there were people who were like running around in like $700 calf hands, you know, at, at like being like.

Gypsy, you know, whatever. So I think people were more looking at that and being like, Ugh, than they were true. Okay. Maybe they were, I don't know, but we were just so wrapped up in each other. And so just living in this free space and when we moved back here, I mean, it just gets, gets less romantic because the environment doesn't isn't that way.

But I had a baby and so marriage really changed a lot, obviously. And I, I had to adjust to that at first for sure, because I wanna, I wanna fix everything all the time. I want to know that, you know, I wanna feel like I can, I didn't want things to be the exact same, but I wanted to, I wanted to know that he still felt the same about me and I didn't have a ne like low self-esteem about it, but I just got a little nervous about like, We have to make sure we're spending enough time together, even though we literally see each other all day long, but like specific time and having sex enough and like all this stuff was so top of mind for me at first, and then I really had to be like, everything is changing and you just have to kind of roll

[00:15:56] Anna Toonk: with it.

Was that specifically, I'm sorry, specifically in reaction to getting married or having a baby or no, both

[00:16:06] Nina Endrst: getting married wouldn't have changed anything for us. I'm very confident of that. It was having a baby. Yeah. You know, and being like, when people talk about being touched out, like yes, it's a thing.

Yeah. And. BR I mean, I breastfed until Mylo was four. Yeah. So it's like, I was like a factory. I felt like a lot of the time, you know? So I feel like I had to really work hard to come back into my body and feel this way again. But then also like, what do I want for my partner? Yeah. I had, I have to really take responsibility for that.

I think we all do, and they don't just know what you want. Right. And I think he does a great job of knowing me, but I am so tough to read. Sometimes. I think that I could be really wanting attention, but. You wouldn't fucking

[00:16:58] Anna Toonk: ever know it. Oh, the more you want something, the more you shut down, I've learned that me specifically.

Yes,

[00:17:05] Nina Endrst: yes. A 100000%.

[00:17:07] Anna Toonk: Yeah. Like I'll sometimes I'll be like, why is she being weird? And I'm like, oh, she's having feelings.

[00:17:15] Nina Endrst: oh my God. It's so true. Yeah. I it's so true. And so as far, I mean, love languages would kind of cross my mind in, in those moments of like, what the fuck is mine? Like? Yeah. You know? Yeah.

But I never really, I never sought it out to actually go and figure it out. But physical touch is huge for me, but also it's changed a lot. And I think that's, if I had answered this test, this quiz, if I had taken this quiz, you know, years ago, it probably would've been a little different. Yeah. But quality time is so important.

And also I think. the being just really present in the amount of time that you get. Like, when we go out to dinner, it's like, it's like the holy grail. We're like, oh my God, this is amazing. Like we're married and we're at dinner. Like we have, we're great. You know? Yeah. And I feel like we're always great more for the most part.

I shouldn't say always, but when you're wa walking around all the time, like fucking cleaning up and moving around each other and blah, blah, blah. Like, of course it's not gonna be like that 24 7, you know? So I think it's important to notice the potent moments and appreciate them and name them. And I've tried to work really hard on that.

And then be like, I had to be fairly vulnerable and, you know, say things that I didn't necessarily wanna say about like, do you think I'm attractive anymore? Like, not like I thought he was losing that, but I just needed

[00:18:45] Anna Toonk: to know you needed to hear it. I did. Yeah. Oh God,

[00:18:49] Nina Endrst: I hate feelings.

[00:18:50] Anna Toonk: Same. Oh my God.

Needing something from another person. I'd rather from a man too. Like I, and from a man in this economy,

[00:18:58] Nina Endrst: like exactly girl, exactly. As much as he's literally my, everything in so many

[00:19:03] Anna Toonk: ways and amazing

[00:19:04] Nina Endrst: trust him so much. I'm like fucking hate that. I have to be like, think I'm pretty. And I it's like, it's so stupid, but it's not like I want my husband to think I'm attractive.

And I know he does, but I was thinking today actually about cheating. Well, cuz I was pulling a cards for myself.

[00:19:19] Anna Toonk: like, like you were thinking of cheating on way. No kidding. I imagine

[00:19:23] Nina Endrst: I was thinking today about having an affair. No, I'm good. He's enough man for me. But I was reading one of the cards and it was like, you could point to an affair or pregnancy.

And I was like, well shit. Like those are two very different things. Mm. And I'm like, well I'm not pregnant and I'm not, no one's having an affair. But there was this moment of like, Every other guy that I've ever been with. If I had read that I would've been like it would've planted a seed of doubt and I would have believed it.

Yeah. In some capacity, not full on like crazy person, but there is no doubt in my mind that what we have is incredibly solid and that he would never in his fucking life do anything like that. Yeah. So, but one is not, does not mean the other. Right. Just because I want words of affirmation of like, you look pretty, you know, or whatever doesn't mean.

I think he's cheating on me.

[00:20:25] Anna Toonk: Yes. Well, I also think you have to, like, there's nothing wrong with wanting to be desired. The reason we feel badly about it is that women are told their value is on how desirable they are. and we've decided to not. Subscribe to that. So then it's confusing when we feel that very natural thing of there's totally nothing with wrong.

There's nothing wrong with wanting to be desirable or be D desired. Like, it feels incredible. That's why we all go seek it out. Like give, be brick, you know, like, there's no rocket sign. Fuck over yourself. Yeah. Like, you know, what are we doing here? but I think like, there's something about your marriage and relationship with way that feels very different.

I have to be like than other couples. And like, this is no shade to any of the other couples I know, or anything. But like, I mean, I, I feel blessed that I know a couple people I have like way, not that you're not an amazing person, but way is so rock solid. Like I understand too, why I know he's better. I get that.

You would've like. You know, freaked out about other people, but like wouldn't about him. Like, of course he's the one you married cuz you don't feel that way, but y'all have, I would be curious how much do y'all talk about. Or work on your marriage because as an outsider, it seems like you don't. I mean, not, I, I don't mean it like that

[00:21:57] Nina Endrst: seems like you guys need some fucking, no, no, but

[00:21:59] Anna Toonk: you're like, so on the same page, yes.

Like you a hundred percent agree. Like you're such team players, you know, and I've told Nina about my new obsession, these, this like Canadian, um, couple, I love to watch their videos on YouTube. It's so fucking embarrassing. That's amazing. They go camping in the middle of like fucking nowhere and go on the, they went on this like 14 day canoe trip did 240 kilometers, all this stuff in, like, she drops the net in the water and he's like, oh, that's okay, hun.

And like, there's, I mean, granted who knows, I could have had major fights that they've edited out, but for the most part, like they maintain so much. You know, kindness and respect towards each other. Like, I don't, I know very few people, like I have a co I would say I have like a handful of friends that like really keep respectful boundaries with their marriage.

Like, they don't really talk about their partner. They don't really, they certainly never talk shit, you know, like all of that sort of stuff. And it seems like it's like the number one thing in their life is like their teammate. And then like, you know, maybe children as well. And then, you know, and I'm just like, how do you do that?

Is that luck? Is it the person you find and decide we're gonna do this? Like you, I almost feel so insane. That's. The only time you've ever said anything. Negative about Wade to me, which I think is hilarious is when he didn't buy you two hand soaps, that's literally the only negative thing you have ever said about him.

And even then he was still trying to save the environment, you know? Oh my God. I know. And you not to say that stuff doesn't happen, you know? And you've said like, oh, I've, you know, I was like a little short with him today, but I'm frustrated about, but you know, like you've shared a little bit of that stuff, but it seems like there aren't issues.

Like how do you do that? We don't

[00:23:50] Nina Endrst: have any issues in our marriage. And what I mean by that is not like we are perfect robots. I mean, when we, here's our number one issue. Okay. That I talk in a way that way has never met anybody like me and, or certainly dated anyone like. I'm sure he is met people like me, but he hasn't dated anyone like me where my directness.

And like, sometimes when I'm talking, like he thinks I'm yelling and I'm like, I'm just talking. Mm. And he's so sensitive, like, yes, as a being, and I am such an, a, I am such an asshole and I don't mean like, no, I'm an asshole to him, but I am an asshole. Yes. Like that. Part of who I am. I just like live and breathe that I'm also deeply compassionate and nurturing and loving, but I'm also an asshole.

And I talk like that. and I that's just,

[00:24:46] Anna Toonk: cuz I identify also as an asshole, so I'm laughing cuz it's like, I feel similarly around way where I'm like, I, you know, I I'm like, I, I don't wanna be, you know, where I'm like, I don't wanna be an asshole to like the world's kindest man.

[00:25:00] Nina Endrst: totally, he's so fucking kind.

I I'm telling you the other day, I was like, you know, those rooms that they have for people to fucking break shit. I told, I said this on the last podcast I think. And he was like, no, I don't know. And I'm like, don't you wanna fucking do that? He's like, no. And I was like, I think they made those rooms for me.

like, I think , I wanna just bash things all the time. And also this is me without like rage issues. Like I used to like actually smash shit. Like now I'm just like, oh, wouldn't that be nice? And I move on, you know, I have healthy tools, but the secret there is no secret, but I think that it's not luck part of it is that I was just talking to a friend about this today.

Who's going to, um, a family gathering with a lot of people who are married about to have babies, blah, blah. And she's single and fabulous by the way. And I was like, listen, this is probably gonna suck. And that's okay. Maybe it won't suck, but maybe it will. And not because you want the thing that the people have, but you like the way they have it, but it leaves a sense of like longing for what you do want, how you want it.

And I think. what I said to her was like, you're going to, I believe that you're going to be rewarded for going a different way and taking a different route and trusting yourself and not settling for what you don't want. Maybe these people do like their lives. I hope they do, but that's not what you want.

So I feel similarly about how way, and I found each other, like, I might have dated a lot of fucking douche bags, but I wasn't gonna marry them. Yeah. And I've, I really feel like it was a, an enormous gift that I earned, but also that I take such good care of, and it comes first above everything. For both of us.

These are non-negotiables that we didn't have to talk about. Like I find you meet each other a priority from day one from day one.

[00:27:10] Anna Toonk: I feel like that is what I find really. Fascinating about your relationship. How much seems to be unsaid in a, in, in a or UN you know, like that you it's like telepathic between the two of you?

Yeah, because totally I've even seen it in person about like, dumb shit about like, what are we gonna eat for dinner? And you're both like mural, like you mind mouth and then are like veggie burgers, you know, like totally it's and it's been that way since the beginning, since day

[00:27:41] Nina Endrst: one, we made each other.

Yeah, dude, like, I am not kidding you. When I say we were connected from the fucking moment we saw each other and it's so not bullshit. Like, you know, I don't bullshit. Yeah. It's just, it was instant. And he, I do, we, we truly like read each other's minds a lot of the time and it's bizarre. And then you have Milo in the picture who's like, now this like.

It you what I, when I am with my family and I'm not in being an asshole or like focused on something else and I'm really just tuned in, I'm like, whoa, these people are like my fucking people, you know, and I know that all the time, but when I'm really tuned into it, it feels so overwhelming in the best way.

But also sometimes it scares a shit outta me because I'm like, well, I don't wanna lose it because this is so special. And this is so rare, and this is so it just feels like everything, you know, but truly he's made me a priority from the moment I met him. Like, I will never forget when we, when he text me the like the next morning and after I met him and he was like, what time can you get coffee?

Like he was so there. And I was just like, I don't, I never had a doubt about him. It was crazy. and something that happened too was when I went away. I don't know if I've told the story. It's really embarrassing.

[00:29:17] Anna Toonk: I, I think is it about the pick? Yeah, I did

tell

[00:29:21] Nina Endrst: the story, right. Mm-hmm okay. Yeah. He's just taught me so much about like, not being, I don't think I ever used.

No, that's not true. I have 100% used my sexuality to manipulate men a lot and to gain power and to have this false sense of control or to have control, you know, or at least what I thought was control

[00:29:44] Anna Toonk: or did like, just try to figure out where the fuck you are. It's like, Are you flirting with me? Like what's happening as well.

Like I think sometimes too, like as a woman, it can be like, well, you know, let me just like, let me pour some gas on this and see what happened.

[00:30:01] Nina Endrst: You know, as my life motto back then let's just gasoline, the whole place. And he just really taught me so much about, and still continues about gentleness in love.

And I have no problem being gentle with my son and I had no problem being gentle with him and like really letting him in when we first met. But I also know that as time moves on and our lives change, he shows up in such a patient way consistently. And I don't have any patience, like yeah. And I need some of that.

And so that I know he loves me because I he's so patient with me and I'm. and I'm not bad in any way. I'm not trying to like paint myself as this ogre, but I'm certainly not like the gentle serial creature that he is. And so I think we really balance each other out,

[00:31:09] Anna Toonk: I think, like something that's interesting. And I'd be curious what your thoughts are on it. And is that. I was in this seminar about the Nora Efron book, uh, heartburn, which I think I've talked about on here before maybe the advice episode. I can't remember, but anyway, anyway, Nora EF it's, uh, fiction, but it is based on Nora Efron's, um, real life.

And when she was cheated on when she was seven months pregnant and oof. Yep. And she wrote a book about it. And it's interesting because when we meet our protagonist, um, it's like the she's just figured out. She's just discovered he's cheating. And so it's like, it's dramatic and we don't really know who the players are yet.

Blah, blah, blah. And then she starts to tell us a little bit about the, the relationship. And basically he's cheated on her since the beginning, you know, and this is something and she knew. Yeah. Okay. Like before I think maybe they were engaged, but definitely before they were married and she was told to stay away from him, like girlfriends were like, don't mess with him, you know?

And I'm like so often, and I'm sure you've had this happen with millions of clients. Just like I have like go through a breakup and are like, I don't understand. Or what went wrong or like, how did I not see this? And really the most painful part is realizing, like it was broken from the beginning, you know, like this person was never a good fit or, you know, they were cheating from the, was on the wall.

Yeah. Like, or who they were, was available to you. You just didn't wanna see it in that moment. Or like, you know, we're in love, like, which, I mean, it happens, but do you think some of it for you is like, I've only dated a few people where I was like, oh, my usual bullshit is not gonna fly here. And if I want any chance with this person whatsoever, like to see if this is anything or whatever, like I'm gonna have to step up my game.

Like I'm gonna have to like be a grownup and I'm gonna have to be like really willing to like see them. Do you think that there was like any aspect of that for you and way like, uh, yeah. Yeah. I

[00:33:43] Nina Endrst: can't be on goggles

[00:33:44] Anna Toonk: are off with him. Yeah.

[00:33:46] Nina Endrst: he also sees me. I'm so transparent to him, even though I know I'm deeply complex to him and that's one of the things that he's so attracted to, like, he is like, you're wild, you know, kind of thing, but.

I know that he knows me, like, yeah, I don't think I'm predictable, but I can't get, like, I can't get away with shit. You know? Like also way's so much smarter than me and I don't mean that to like dumb myself down, but he just is he's he's, I think he's way more intellectual than I am. And so I think that the men that have been in my life prior were like, I could run circles around them.

Yeah. And him, it's not that way were very much

[00:34:31] Anna Toonk: equals and he's so masterful at being like so gentle and sensitive and like, you know, I don't know, like really cool, but then like, we'll fuck you up.

[00:34:43] Nina Endrst: You know, he'll cut. He'll he will cut you, not me, but he will cut him motherfucker. Like with his gentle words, he's

[00:34:49] Anna Toonk: not, he didn't miss anything.

He's no fool. No. And it's like, that's such a like tricky quality. Like that's, that's so nuanced and so difficult and rare to, to see in people I have found it's been tricky for me both to like, say to people, like I get that. You're like, I get that. You're trying to express love, but it does not feel like love to me.

you know, like my mom is such a like fixer kind of, you know, like if I'm, I think she's a really hard time just listening, you know, and like witnessing and I have to be like, I understand you're trying to like show up or. You know, but like, this is stressing me out, you know, like she'll immediately, she's not really, she's not trying to do it, but she, she like triggers me to be honest often, you know, cuz she'll be like, I'll do this or I'll do.

And I'm like, I don't need you to fix it. I literal, like now you're stressing me out because you're becoming like a wild card and I don't know if you're gonna like do something, you know, I'm like, and I think some of it is this overcompensating cuz like things I would've liked her to have done when I was younger.

She didn't. And so now she's like, I'll do it double time. it's like, no, that doesn't, it doesn't work. And I know for me too, when I have very much been trying to show someone like, you know, I love you. And they're like, cool. And like toss it aside. I'm like, oh, you know? And I'm like, they didn't, they're not discarding you.

Like, that's been, it's tough. I think we do think this stuff is like basic or universal and it's, it's really not. When you think about it,

[00:36:46] Nina Endrst: I have a question for you. Yes. Has there some been something that you can point to, or do you feel like there's anything that is currently holding you back from putting yourself out there to be loved?

By someone new romantically. Oh my God.

[00:37:06] Anna Toonk: Uh, I think it's, y'all, I'm gonna listen. I'm gonna call Nina out now because she's been secretly talking to my therapist now for months, I'm convinced. Oh, I know. I can't

[00:37:19] Nina Endrst: believe I do that.

[00:37:20] Anna Toonk: And it's such a violation. I'm a hundred percent kidding. They don't talk, but I do think they do.

They have this psychic friends network. Yeah. I mean, there's tons of fucking shit, you know, that holds me back. I mean, I think I'm getting, I think I'm figuring it out. I think it's also really tough when I, I feel open to being be involved, you know, like I feel open to it, but when it comes to my romantic life, I mean, it's so hard to hope or want for something different when you've just never experienced it.

You know? Like I've had so few like high quality. People like people that I would be interested really in building a life with or learning their love language, you know, like that, it's tough when it's like, I, I feel like I've spent the past 10 years figuring out what, what was the problem with me? And now I'm like the problem isn't me, you know?

Like, but I'm tired of all this energy I have to put into this. Especially mind you I'm dating in New York. So it's not fun, you know? And not that I'm not one of those, I don't think dating is fun. I'm one of those people, you know, like I don't no, because it's not. Yeah. I mean, I don't think it's like horrible either, but like, you know, you're dealing with stuff that isn't exactly like the coolest you're dealing with vulnerability.

You're dealing with rejection. Like all this stuff that I don't know that it just is like, it's hard. I think to just put yourself. Constantly in the path of it, you know, like, I don't know what more I could do in a lot of ways in my own life. You know, I, if you read something about dating, I've done all of it.

You know, like I've told friends to set me up, I've done, you know, like I've done it. You know, currently, I mean, not currently, I mean, to my defense, it has been a pandemic, you know, true.

[00:39:25] Nina Endrst: No, no, we are not here. We are not here to challenge these things. I think that one of the things you said, which I totally understand, and I feel like a lot of people would identify with is that you don't know, it's, it's difficult to, to kind of visualize or to ask for something that you don't, you've never seen or that you don't know, but you are such a, like a person.

Can you, or have you visualized it because you've never been to many of the places and the things that you've, you know, that come out of you. Right?

[00:40:06] Anna Toonk: I have, but you know what, like I generally date men and yet, I, I mean, this is my big question. Now, if you do want to date men, how do you do that? you know, like there aren't, I've been trying to go above and beyond to find like, good male representation.

And I like, I kid you not because otherwise I should just give up and go live in a cave. You know what I mean? Like if you're not gonna be willing to open up your idea that like someone out there does exist or better does exist, then like you might as well give up, you know, cuz I do think there's a bit of a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Like if I tell myself that every man is garbage, well then every man I mean is gonna be garbage to me, you know? Like, but it's. it is hard. I mean, things I've done is anyone who I used to have this little collection of like maybe men, you know, and when times were a little slow or, and I was feeling a little blue, she would reach out to them, you know, or seek validation from them or something, or one of them, he, you know, kind of like puts me on this pedestal.

And I mean, it's been a long land down still, still. No. Well, yes, but I cut 'em all off, you know, and I don't talk to him any of them anymore. And. That's weird. That's new for me, you know? That's great. And yeah, and I mean, both you and Christina, my therapist were both instrumental in being like, if you don't want that in your life, then don't talk to it.

you know, like, what is this doing for you? You know? And I realized like with one person, they were really, it wasn't anything they were doing, obviously, but maintaining the contact with them, even though we're cool, it's been a hundred years. Like there's no stuff there. I realized like, it agitated for me, this like rejection thing.

And I was like, I just don't think that's good for you. You know? Like it's not really about him. Like, I think I was trying to prove some point, like I'm so over you, I'm so cool with all of this, like. I can talk to you. No probs. And I was like, oh cool girl stuff. I, yeah, it was a little, it was like a new form of cool girl stuff, you know, that I didn't realize.

And I was, and then I realized when I stopped talking to, I was like, oh, I feel, I feel better. You know? So I think that has like getting rid of them, you know, and kind of challenging that belief that that's like all I'm worth or all I'm going to get gotta is say being a larger gal, not easy. The men don't love fat women, not to say fat women can't be loved or can't find people.

Or there aren't people into fat women. That is not what I'm saying. I am saying my lived experience is that it doesn't bring all the boys to the yard. and so that's why sometimes too, it's like, when people wanna talk about love or like what I'm doing, I'm like, I can't change society. So I don't know. I feel sort of out of control and like, I don't know.

I don't know. Yeah. I mean that it, maybe it will take a miracle. I have no idea.

[00:43:34] Nina Endrst: No, I think that's what I like about your approach to this, especially when it comes to your weight is that I do think a lot of women are so, uh, conditioned to be like, I have to lose weight so I can find a man or whatever. And I don't hear you

[00:43:54] Anna Toonk: talk like that.

No, I mean, I've, I mean, I think it was Amy Schumer who was like, I weigh 165 pounds and I can catch a Dick. And when I weighed close to 400 pounds, I was catching Dick, you know, weight, I will say. You know, weight ha does weight does not doesn't preclude sex, romance love any of that. But I do think it limits your options if I'm being honest.

And I'm saying this not as someone on the outside being judgemental, I'm saying it as someone within yeah. The sphere who feels that way.

[00:44:35] Nina Endrst: Yeah. I mean, you're allow to feel that way. Just been my experience. We're not speaking for all people who are a certain date. Yeah. You know what I

[00:44:42] Anna Toonk: mean? Yeah. I'm speaking from my experience that people that I would be interested in, they're not in, I mean, I've also just experienced it in my personal life.

That men who were not interested in me when I was bigger, when I have lost weight were interested in me. And that is a mind fuck as well. Yeah. And I think that has also contributed to trust issues for me, where I'm like, I really need someone that like my body can't be the thing. You know, no. And that can't be what draws you to me.

And I kind of thought as I got older, that that would become less important. You know, like maybe I would like age out a hotness and then find someone who really just wanted like a good woman and who knows. I mean, I have hope for, I mean, I'm in my forties. I have hope for my fifties now, you know that maybe when I'm the old, you're not in your late forties, God, I feel like I'm zooming towards them.

But I'm like when I go late 41, uh, yeah, I'll be 42 this year, unfortunately. Okay. So you literally just started. Yeah, I just, but I get it, it also, like, I think is tough in, I mean, in owning my own stuff, like when I was younger, I had zero interest in being a wife as well. I think that I was like, My commitment issues were weird.

I just, it wasn't. So I would've probably would've like married someone, but I would've been like, had the secret bank account, like maybe would've kept my apartment, you know, like I would've still had

[00:46:15] Nina Endrst: slept out in the middle of the night. You would've gone back to your place. Yeah. Come back in the morning.

Like, yeah. Like weird. Well, I just went for a brisk

[00:46:22] Anna Toonk: walk, like stuff would've been happening, you know, like, but I think that that's been, that is tricky is well, is balancing. I've been watching all these documentaries about artists and all this stuff, and it's like something that brings me. A lot of comfort.

And I mean, I've been asked this by a lot of friends in relationships when they're like, do you think your creative practice and your spiritual practice are so strong because you are single? And I'm like, yeah, I think there is something to that, you know? And so many of these artists are like, I wanted to be in service of myself, you know, and devoted to my, my work.

And I feel similarly, you know, and I don't think that that means, and I think you feel similarly to me, and it's interesting seeing how much space you've carved out for these different things. I think for me, I was so afraid for so long when I was younger of getting lost or just swallowed, you know, like by partnership and marriage and stuff that like.

I think I'm still figuring out how to dismantle the wall. I put up, you know,

[00:47:54] Nina Endrst: I would've never, ever been doing half of the shit, if not the majority of the shit that I'm doing right now, if, um, if I was with somebody else, I mean, in any of the people that I've ever dated, like I, as far as, you know, we talk, we talk and think about this all the time. And I think that's another way why, and I like really honor each other and say, that is like, neither one of our lives is possible without the other.

Yeah. Like neither one of our work is possible without the other, nothing. Like the fact that I get to stay home with my kid and also work and do what I love is not possible without my husband's not possible. Like, and he same for him. Right. So that's kind of fucking amazing because that is what our marriage is about is growing.

And I had this psychic one time be like, what's so interesting about your love. It's like, you guys are like fines. Like you grow, you Mo you, you grow apart, but you always grow together. Like you're constantly weaving in and out of each other. And that's what it's felt like since day one, like we're just doing this like dance together, but we it's like, nobody's talked about it.

We have like things that we've said, okay, this, this, you know, obviously had serious conversations and have serious conversations, but just the other night I get in these panic modes where I'll read the news and be like, okay, I have to move. And where are we moving? And how can we move there today, tomorrow?

But he, if I was. I know that any other man I've ever been with would be like, you're fucking crazy. The chill, the fuck, go, whatever the fuck we will literally entertain and be like, oh, so we're moving to Canada. And I'm like, and he's not patronizing in any way or condescending. He's like down. And both of us know that, like, if we needed to leave our house tomorrow and go with a couple of things, God forbid I would never want that.

But like, we, all we need is like our family and like a couple things, you know? Yeah. And that just feels so solid to me.

[00:50:14] Anna Toonk: I think like something that is hard is if you are a woman who. Isn't afraid of being unlikeable, you know, like if you're strong and you're direct and you're these things like something, it was interesting for me.

Like, you've always been very supportive to me about love stuff, but it was interesting when you me hu, were talking, talking about it one night, drinking wine. Um, I believe Huy was having a cocktail, but anyway,

[00:50:49] Nina Endrst: nice Cal

[00:50:50] Anna Toonk: Neron. Yeah, I think, yep. That's what he drinks. And we were, you know, sitting and we were like talking a little bit about that and.

I was like so many men I think are attracted to it in me, but then they like want it for themselves. And then when they can't like, get it from me, like via osmosis, they like turn against me, you know, like or something, it feels like that I don't know what's actually happening, you know? And it was interesting how much, like way got it.

Like what I was saying, you know? And even like how he was talking about, like, when he met you and was like, you know, I I'd never dated someone who would just be like, I don't like this

[00:51:39] Nina Endrst: and the list goes on, you know, this is the only thing I don't like.

[00:51:43] Anna Toonk: He was so funny. He was like, yeah, we'd be out to dinner. And she'd just be like, I don't like this, you know? And he is like, I just never met. He's like, it wasn't bad. I didn't, you know, and, and stuff. And, and I was like saying like, yeah, like I need someone like.

Like not phased by a lot of that. And, and like not, you know, realize in and you know, like in, he was saying so many and it was funny because like, he he's like, you need someone who like wears JS and you were like, JS no, you were like, no JS, you know, and all this. And I was like, yes. And he was like, see, she's up to it.

Oh my God. You know, I'm proud about that. Think so. Funny what way has that? I do think I'm looking for in a partner is like someone with a truly strong sense of self. Like a lot of men think they have it or let people, I'm sorry, I'm gonna open it up. I'm not gonna make it gender specific. I'm not just gonna pick on men, which is my normal Mo, but like a lot of people think that they really have a strong sense of self and then immediately it crumbles in relationship, you know?

And that's whether it's friends or, you know, like. And I do really think, like, I feel a strong sense, like something you were talking about in terms of like, yeah. Like I would never marry them. Like, that's how I felt about so many people, cuz I was like, we will end up divorce. Like I know I won't do this forever.

Like I know I won't, I did it, this guy who, every time I got some, you know, he would be super supportive. My number one fan. And then the second I gained, even the slightest amount, more like ground than he had in something he would punish me, you know, he would. Ice me out, you know? And I was like, well, then you're not really secure.

Like then you don't really support me. Like, if you can only support me when, when like you think you're up and I'm down, then that's why you're like, oh, look at

[00:53:45] Nina Endrst: my cute little girlfriend. She's chugging along. Trying like, no, there's so ma I'm sorry, I'm gonna make this specific to men because I don't give a fuck.

I don't give a fuck. Queen of swords was my card today. And I was like, you think like, really? Like, don't be afraid of being a bitch. I'm not, don't worry. Don't worry. But so many fucking men are so threatened by strong women. I know that's not a hot take, but it is so deep. And it is in all of them. I mean, why are we in the space that we're in right now where they're literally controlling our fucking bodies because they're fucking scared of us and they should be.

Frankly. Yeah. But it sucks in a relationship. And I, this used to happen to me all the time where guys be like, oh, just I'm not enough. And I'm like, you're right. You're not, but like fucking read a book or something, you know, like figure it out. But they just wouldn't, they just wouldn't and way has not always, I don't think he'll mind me saying this had a strong sense of self.

I mean, I think he's certainly had it, most of his life in a lot of ways, but there were times where he had like, lost everything in our relationship and like wasn't making money or whatever, and like he was low, you know? Yeah. And he, and yeah. Was it challenging in certain parts of our relationship, obviously, but there were, there was never a moment where he wasn't happy for me and my success and like, you know, that I was earning a lot or that I was supporting our family for, for a time or whatever.

And now it's like, Not that way anymore. And we just, it's just, that's what a real partner man, you know, is to me, a big chunk of that is just like, if you can't put your little fragile ego aside every day, every day and be like, this is not my like piece of property or like in like examine your internalized fucking patriarchal misogynist, bull bullshit, cuz it's there.

Yeah. And it's running your life.

[00:55:56] Anna Toonk: Yeah. It's really amazing. Sometimes, you know, like it really, I come back all the time to this like stupid article I saw about. Like microaggression, uh, like sexist or misogynistic, like microaggressions. And like, one of them are like, was essentially like, if, like, if, if a woman like, didn't ask you your opinion, like don't offer it.

Or like, like notice that you may feel inclined to like always give an opinion, you know, like on what a woman has said or something. And I was just like, oh my God, that happens to me. Often, like, I didn't ask you, you know, like that all these dudes will be a little bit like, oh yes, you as your Papa friend.

I'm I'm hap happy, like good idea, little Anna. And I'm like, what do you like, you're not, my brother did something very patriarchal to me the other day. And I was like, okay, patriarch. And he was like, woo. And I was like, that was really weird. Like, don't treat me like that. And he was like, well, didn't I go?

You can defend it all you want. I said, but if you wanna uphold patriarchal values, you're gonna need to have a lot more power and a lot more money. And even then I don't recognize the signs of the patriarchy. So get busy. You like strike, strike, strike doesn't work, you know, but I do, like, I think that that is sometimes like, it is really difficult if you, if you wanna be in relationships with, if you're a straight woman and wanna be in relationship with straight men, like the, oh yeah.

It's pretty fucking difficult.

[00:57:33] Nina Endrst: It's really demo. Most them are really, really tragically awful. And I don't give a shit who, like, I don't care. I've people have always thought I was a bitch when it comes to men and I don't care because it's fucking true. And like, that's it the end? Like, look around,

[00:57:53] Anna Toonk: oh, you think you're gonna out me?

No, it's true. Like, it's the

[00:57:56] Nina Endrst: fucking truth, bro. You know? And so I had so many friends that would just be like, oh, you know, like kind of make a joke out of like my feminism or whatever. I'm like, dude, like I'm no, this is it for life. I'm not just trying on, you know, the clogs, like I'm going for it. You know, I, this, this is the life it's it's men are shit.

I just

[00:58:19] Anna Toonk: do better. Don't know. I mean, I think like. I see some, some women I know who I think are really strong a and are feminists, but then like something I don't see you do. And I know we have to start wrapping up is,

[00:58:36] Nina Endrst: I mean, I could talk about me all day. I'm kidding. I mean, if we're pivoting

[00:58:40] Anna Toonk: back to me, I mean, I could

[00:58:42] Nina Endrst: go for at least another let's stay a little what's hour longer.

Shall

[00:58:45] Anna Toonk: we . But like, I don't see a lot of sort of like, I don't see a lot of sexism. I don't see a lot of like gender stuff. I don't see a lot of you like putting a piece of yourself away in order to be in your marriage. Do you think

[00:59:02] Nina Endrst: any of me way? Go ahead, answer. Ask question. Yeah.

[00:59:05] Anna Toonk: Do you, I, I think that's what I want and I've been willing to hold out until that's what I get.

Yes. You know? Yes. Because I don't know any other way to be, you know, you have to hold out

[00:59:17] Nina Endrst: for that. You

[00:59:18] Anna Toonk: just have to, and I think. Like, okay. So you're kind of confirming like what my suspicion is is that if one doesn't, you know, to all of us singles out there who do want love, partnership, marriage, whatever you wanna call it, do you think it's worth it to hold out for the person that like you can be your full self with?

And that doesn't mean that you don't have to learn or grow or like, you know, like Nina said, she, she like, I like, we are assholes and sometimes it's like, we love these like gentler people. Well, you can't always be the asshole to the gentler person, you know? Like, cause then you're just mean . Yeah. Like, so you, we're not saying that, like I'm not saying that everything has to be like perfect, perfect is not in an, you know, entering the, the chat here, but like a really guiding belief I've had in my love life.

Or it has been that like, if I really compromise, I think from a value standpoint, You know, whether that's how I'm valued or what my values are or whatever, like it will not work and it will come to an end at some point, you know, do you think being in a successful partnership, like that's true

[01:00:39] Nina Endrst: 1 million trillion gazillion percent. I, whether it ends in divorce or a slow internal death? Well, that's my next question because that's what will happen, whether you are sorry, internal

[01:00:58] Anna Toonk: I truly cannot. Ima I would rather, I think I'd, I'd rather get divorced. Every year for five years, then have a slow internal death for 15, you

[01:01:12] Nina Endrst: know, it's, you know, it's the truth. Like, yes, I remember sitting with these guys and I was like, I have never been lonelier in my entire life. And there was someone right next to me.

Yeah. And I have to, and I don't, nobody's asking me to be different, but like I'm making myself different and I am purposefully hiding parts away or leading with different parts and, you know, making others quiet. And, and the thing is as much as I am super intentional and thoughtful about my relationship, I never think, right.

It's not like I'm like careless. Yes. But it's fluid and it's and if I fuck up, which I do obviously, and I'm like, so sorry about that. That was, that was rough. You know, I take ownership, but I don't. I, I feel like I was like holding my keel muscle for like however many years I was dating before I met him.

Like, I was just like this, like, like tighten it up, you know, like be, be guarded, but also like don't let anything slip and don't release and don't relax, you know, enough. But for like to let, 'em see you fully, cause then they'll, then, then they'll know.

[01:02:28] Anna Toonk: Yep. Then they'll know or they'll leave.

[01:02:31] Nina Endrst: Yeah. Uhhuh. And they do no matter what, which they should, because they're not for you.

[01:02:35] Anna Toonk: Well, they were gonna do that anyway. It was

[01:02:37] Nina Endrst: in about you. Exactly, exactly. So I have never been more depressed in those relationships and like you, I I'm obsessed with my husband. I don't care. Like who knows it, you know, I love him so much. He really, really is such an fucking amazing man. And I'm so happy that I held out for him.

But I also think that I'm not that special in that that will. come to everyone as long as they don't forget that it exists for them.

[01:03:11] Anna Toonk: Yeah. I have faith in that strangely for myself and, and I think it's been a process to start cultivating that, you know?

[01:03:19] Nina Endrst: Yeah. It is a huge practice. Oh my God. It's like the hardest thing I've ever had to do in my entire life yeah.

Was to be like, I don't know. I've never seen it. I don't trust it. I don't trust men. I don't want that relationship. Nope. Not that one either. Am I a sex object? No, I'm more than a sex object. Okay. Like all this confusion and fuckery and like pass bullshit and to be like, let's just trust and keep going.

Let's just trust and keep going and not settle for bullshit. Yeah. And that's it, you know, like truly,

[01:03:52] Anna Toonk: and I think like in American culture, the, the, the slow death is like so often. Status quo. Yeah. And like what marriage is like,

[01:04:05] Nina Endrst: dude, that's what everyone's doing. Showing has a lot of people they're just opposite end.

I saw this meme today. It was like, you know, opposite ends of the couch on their phone. Like yes, of course that happens. But like, is that like, are we so desensitized that we're like, oh fuck connecting, like elbow ha like, it's fine. We don't need to. Or the nagging wife hold bullshit of like, yes, that narrative or the, oh my husband's awful.

Well, it's like, well then ditch him. Like, yeah, if he's so bad, you know, leave the motherfucker. And I know that that's not easy. I'm not trying to make light of it when you're wrapped up in a life that you are miserable in, but that cannot be the focal point of your other relationships, like commiserating about misery.

That you're always gonna stay in that then.

[01:04:53] Anna Toonk: Yeah. Something I find interesting is I would never. I would never wanna marry someone. Super religious, just because I'm not sorry. Oh my God.

[01:05:07] Nina Endrst: I couldn't

[01:05:07] Anna Toonk: even keep it in. Yeah. And I mean, and that just, I seemed like it wouldn't work, you know, but put it in a minute.

Okay. It's interesting. So for a while, I like to keep Nina posted on like what I'm being targeted by Instagram or social media. And for a while, it would, it was all these super young Mormon. It was all these, like, I

[01:05:32] Nina Endrst: was literally, I totally forgotten. I was gonna be like Mormons.

[01:05:35] Anna Toonk: Yeah. Who were like, you know, 23.

And like, and what's interesting is so many of these, I mean, and I know the, the, the church of latter day saints, like, I, it must suck if you are a happy and healthy functioning member of that, because the fundamentalist church of the latter day saints is so Bonker like, I'm not really trying to make a statement on that, but it's interesting to me sometimes the way certain, so the way certain men who are raised in religions are that it boils things down.

And I see this sometimes with like my Canadian bloggers, I like like outdoors people. And I think way is similar, like this as well of like boiling things down to like their essentials and it get like love and partnership has given them this massive pathway to like, vulnerability that they're okay with.

And. Fascinating some to me, sometimes to me that these guys who are like 23 look like surfers, they're hot, you know, could like go out and like bone, the world are like really psyched about their wives and families. And they're like, like, and, and have no problems with, you know, like being on their Instagram or whatever, and being like, you know, I really love my wife cuz of these reasons.

And we care about this in our relationship that like that's been part of my like reprogramming myself is someone this like super wholesome content of like, there are men that not only want these things that like have felt very elusive of. Like, I wanna build a foundation of trust with someone, you know, like these sort of things that are like actively seeking it, you know?

Like I'm so proud of it.

[01:07:23] Nina Endrst: Yes. Like my, my husband is interesting

[01:07:26] Anna Toonk: is so proud. Oh my God. He's so proud of you. And, and your marriage

[01:07:31] Nina Endrst: family a hundred percent. Like he, one time said this to me and then we really have to wrap up. He was like, I almost cried. And then I'm like, don't be a bitch. Nina. No, I'm kidding.

Um, he was like talking about during the pandemic. We never went anywhere mile and I at, at all. And we did when he had to go places when we had to go places where I would go for us. And he's like, was like, yeah. You know, sometimes I'm just like feeling like I really wish my family was, you know, here with me in the grocery store, like, you know, and I'm like, oh my God, like you're with us 24 hours a day.

And you're so proud that you want to be seen with us at the grocery store. Like. Out in town, like he's so he, it, like, you can see the pride. Yes. When we're out

[01:08:17] Anna Toonk: and it's not, it's just gross. It's, it's not you as an accessory or, you know, like for other men it's like literally his internal pride, like of.

Really loving his life and family and oh man, it's pretty

[01:08:35] Nina Endrst: damn cute. It's

[01:08:37] Anna Toonk: so cute. Cuz I also benefit by default because when he's like being proud of you and he's generally being proud of me too, by default and it's great. You know, like he is proud of you. He loves you. It's so I mean, it, it cracks me up.

Like, you know, it's when, I mean he and I hadn't even met, I don't think we'd even talked and he's like tagging me and stuff and I'm like, that's a good man. You know? Like he loves

[01:09:03] Nina Endrst: women and that's yes. And he like really loves women. Yes. Not in a creepy way where he wants

[01:09:10] Anna Toonk: to objectify them. No. And he doesn't want points.

He,

[01:09:13] Nina Endrst: no, he genuinely, genuinely loves. He like most of his friends, I mean he had a lot of guy friends, but like he had a lot of girlfriends. I was like, they need to go. No, but yeah, they just happened to fall off, you know, but he like, women love him obviously. And. He's just not creepy, which is just such a fucking breath of fresh air.

He doesn't want anything from you. No, you know, it's like,

[01:09:38] Anna Toonk: he doesn't, he's very neutral. It's not about, it's gonna

[01:09:42] Nina Endrst: be so embarrassed when he finds out that this entire episode was about it.

[01:09:47] Anna Toonk: Yeah. I, we, we, we, we fucked out cuz his birthday is not until what? January or February. Cuz it's Aquarius season. I just know that, but oh man.

I do think though that you, you, you brought up a good point and I did wanna bring that up. That if you are a woman who wants a man, you really need one who genuinely likes women. I. Think that it works great. If you're the only woman they like

[01:10:18] Nina Endrst: no, but that doesn't go for, like, it doesn't go for the other side.

You can dislike men if you're a straight woman. ,

[01:10:24] Anna Toonk: it's, it's different.

[01:10:25] Nina Endrst: It'll, it'll still work. It's different. That's

[01:10:27] Anna Toonk: just is not a real thing. So it's different. Yeah. I agree. You can hate men and still only like your men, if anything, it might be that you found, you know, found the one for you out of the bunch.

But, um, generally I think it is a warning sign and honestly, I, for our queer family, I don't, I don't know what. Toxic signs you wanna look for? I do think something I wanna say is like, obviously this stuff, you know, sexism, uh, kind of toxic stuff like nos, no gender or sexuality boundaries. So, no, we're just

[01:11:05] Nina Endrst: talking from, I'm

[01:11:05] Anna Toonk: just talking from my, we're just talking from our own experiences, but I do wanted to say like, yeah, we know like, no one's like cornered the, like, it's tough to figure stuff out.

I would recommend to people. If you have no idea what makes you feel loved or how you like to love people? I would do the test. It's interesting. I mean, it's changed. It's

[01:11:24] Nina Endrst: nothing else. It just like makes you think.

[01:11:26] Anna Toonk: I agree. And it also, I think they have a couple different, you can do it too, like in terms of like relationships and I did one for, I did the friendship one out of curiosity and it, it was actually like helpful and made me think about a friend that I'm often sort of like, what are you doing?

I was like, oh, I think she's been trying to demonstrate law. So, who knows, maybe you two will discover basic things you maybe could have known the whole time.

[01:11:54] Nina Endrst: Amazing. I agree. And that is a great way to end and thank you for coming on this lovely journey with us today on the way on the way. Train

goodbye. There's not, there's only one and his brother and his brother's not great.

that's all for today's

[01:12:19] Anna Toonk: episode. If you're interested in submitting a topic or want to submit a question for our advice episode, please join our membership community@howtobehumanpod.com. Thanks for listening. And remember we're guides, not gurus.