1 00:00:00,090 --> 00:00:00,923 - There's no question. 2 00:00:00,923 --> 00:00:02,670 Old houses are filled with character. 3 00:00:02,670 --> 00:00:05,160 Keep away from five-minute trends. 4 00:00:05,160 --> 00:00:06,750 Keep true to the house. 5 00:00:06,750 --> 00:00:08,940 And then consider yourself a steward of it 6 00:00:08,940 --> 00:00:10,680 in a greater timeline. 7 00:00:10,680 --> 00:00:13,890 - My guests today are Elizabeth and Ethan Finkelstein, 8 00:00:13,890 --> 00:00:16,350 the couple behind "Cheap Old Houses." 9 00:00:16,350 --> 00:00:18,390 You may have seen 'em on HGTV, 10 00:00:18,390 --> 00:00:20,580 or if you've fallen down the rabbit hole 11 00:00:20,580 --> 00:00:22,200 of their Instagram feed, 12 00:00:22,200 --> 00:00:24,390 you know the dream they're selling: 13 00:00:24,390 --> 00:00:27,570 beautiful old historic homes with great bones 14 00:00:27,570 --> 00:00:30,270 at prices that actually make sense. 15 00:00:30,270 --> 00:00:31,590 Welcome back to "Own It." 16 00:00:31,590 --> 00:00:35,130 I'm your host, Angie Hicks, co-founder of Angie. 17 00:00:35,130 --> 00:00:38,160 On this show, we talk about what it really takes 18 00:00:38,160 --> 00:00:40,860 to own your home without it owning you. 19 00:00:40,860 --> 00:00:44,130 Buying a cheap old house isn't just a fun side project. 20 00:00:44,130 --> 00:00:46,410 It's actually a big financial decision 21 00:00:46,410 --> 00:00:48,420 and a lifestyle decision. 22 00:00:48,420 --> 00:00:51,090 It can also be a structural decision too. 23 00:00:51,090 --> 00:00:53,010 Elizabeth and Ethan will walk us through 24 00:00:53,010 --> 00:00:55,080 how to assess one of these properties, 25 00:00:55,080 --> 00:00:56,520 how to finance it, 26 00:00:56,520 --> 00:00:58,560 and then also whether you should pick up 27 00:00:58,560 --> 00:00:59,910 that paintbrush yourself 28 00:00:59,910 --> 00:01:01,710 or whether you should leave it to a pro. 29 00:01:01,710 --> 00:01:03,720 What I really liked about this conversation 30 00:01:03,720 --> 00:01:05,910 was how they taught us to think differently 31 00:01:05,910 --> 00:01:08,069 about what home ownership can look like. 32 00:01:08,069 --> 00:01:09,450 (air popping) 33 00:01:09,450 --> 00:01:11,370 Elizabeth, Ethan, welcome to the show. 34 00:01:11,370 --> 00:01:13,560 I'm so excited to chat with you. 35 00:01:13,560 --> 00:01:15,630 I would love to just start out 36 00:01:15,630 --> 00:01:18,720 with how you all got started with "Cheap Old Houses." 37 00:01:18,720 --> 00:01:20,250 What was your inspiration, 38 00:01:20,250 --> 00:01:24,150 and what led you to, you know, to building cheap old houses? 39 00:01:24,150 --> 00:01:26,760 - It's kind of the only thing we can do. 40 00:01:26,760 --> 00:01:27,600 I know that sounds crazy. 41 00:01:27,600 --> 00:01:28,590 I do really believe 42 00:01:28,590 --> 00:01:30,840 that we're all put on this earth to do something, 43 00:01:30,840 --> 00:01:33,600 and I think we feel very much that it's in our blood, 44 00:01:33,600 --> 00:01:36,870 and I guess it took us a little while to find that thing 45 00:01:36,870 --> 00:01:39,780 although old houses have been in our lives forever, 46 00:01:39,780 --> 00:01:42,150 but, you know, for us it was really a combination 47 00:01:42,150 --> 00:01:46,950 of feeling like acquiring a house is a pipe dream 48 00:01:46,950 --> 00:01:48,450 for so many people, 49 00:01:48,450 --> 00:01:50,190 and loving old homes, 50 00:01:50,190 --> 00:01:52,020 having grown up in them, working with them, 51 00:01:52,020 --> 00:01:54,840 I have a master's degree in historic preservation, 52 00:01:54,840 --> 00:01:57,150 and just understanding 53 00:01:57,150 --> 00:01:59,790 that there is so much housing stock out there 54 00:01:59,790 --> 00:02:01,530 if you're willing to think outside the box. 55 00:02:01,530 --> 00:02:05,190 It was sort of our sort of house hack solution to a problem. 56 00:02:05,190 --> 00:02:07,320 - We were posting old houses for sale 57 00:02:07,320 --> 00:02:10,290 at all price points on social media 58 00:02:10,290 --> 00:02:11,550 a little over 10 years ago, 59 00:02:11,550 --> 00:02:13,770 maybe like 15 years ago now. 60 00:02:13,770 --> 00:02:14,603 - Oh, gosh. 61 00:02:14,603 --> 00:02:16,230 - Elizabeth was posting these houses, 62 00:02:16,230 --> 00:02:17,430 these cheap houses that she found 63 00:02:17,430 --> 00:02:18,540 on "Country Living Magazine," 64 00:02:18,540 --> 00:02:21,987 and then we started our own blog on "CIRCA Old Houses," 65 00:02:21,987 --> 00:02:25,200 and it was a fan favorite every single week, 66 00:02:25,200 --> 00:02:27,090 and it went viral every single week, 67 00:02:27,090 --> 00:02:28,260 these cheap old houses. 68 00:02:28,260 --> 00:02:29,970 And we were, at the same time, 69 00:02:29,970 --> 00:02:33,270 looking for a cheap old house for ourselves to fix up 70 00:02:33,270 --> 00:02:35,880 and not flip per se, but to live in. 71 00:02:35,880 --> 00:02:37,980 And it was sort of just this pipe dream. 72 00:02:37,980 --> 00:02:40,590 We had always wanted this for ourselves, 73 00:02:40,590 --> 00:02:43,110 and I think the moment that we knew we hit something 74 00:02:43,110 --> 00:02:45,600 was when "New York Magazine" wrote about us 75 00:02:45,600 --> 00:02:48,120 about four years after we posted these cheap old houses, 76 00:02:48,120 --> 00:02:50,820 and they wrote a four or five page essay 77 00:02:50,820 --> 00:02:52,467 on cheap old houses," 78 00:02:52,467 --> 00:02:55,170 and this beautiful thing that people buying these things, 79 00:02:55,170 --> 00:02:56,707 and they said, "Would you change your life 80 00:02:56,707 --> 00:02:59,190 "for a cheap old house that you saw on the internet?" 81 00:02:59,190 --> 00:03:00,750 And that was the moment that hit us, 82 00:03:00,750 --> 00:03:03,930 where we were like, "Wow! Like people are doing this. 83 00:03:03,930 --> 00:03:05,490 We're not just posting this on the internet. 84 00:03:05,490 --> 00:03:08,730 People are home shopping on our Instagram feed. 85 00:03:08,730 --> 00:03:11,160 - So I know I might hit on a sore point, 86 00:03:11,160 --> 00:03:12,930 but I'm going to go right to the heart of this. 87 00:03:12,930 --> 00:03:16,920 So, Elizabeth, I know that you get really upset 88 00:03:16,920 --> 00:03:20,610 when people say that old houses are money pits. 89 00:03:20,610 --> 00:03:21,984 Tell me why. 90 00:03:21,984 --> 00:03:24,903 - (sighs) Angie, you know, we've talked about this before. 91 00:03:24,903 --> 00:03:25,854 (Ethan laughing) 92 00:03:25,854 --> 00:03:26,700 (all laughing) 93 00:03:26,700 --> 00:03:28,650 I know that you and I have had many a conversation 94 00:03:28,650 --> 00:03:30,060 about old houses being money pits. 95 00:03:30,060 --> 00:03:31,413 I would say this. 96 00:03:32,250 --> 00:03:34,260 All houses need maintenance. 97 00:03:34,260 --> 00:03:35,940 New houses need maintenance. 98 00:03:35,940 --> 00:03:37,890 Old houses need maintenance. 99 00:03:37,890 --> 00:03:40,290 I would rather work on a house 100 00:03:40,290 --> 00:03:42,420 that has materials that I can fix 101 00:03:42,420 --> 00:03:46,170 versus new materials: aluminum, vinyl, plastic, 102 00:03:46,170 --> 00:03:47,570 things that you can't repair 103 00:03:48,545 --> 00:03:49,830 and that have to go in a landfill. 104 00:03:49,830 --> 00:03:53,730 I think the notion that old houses require more 105 00:03:53,730 --> 00:03:56,880 has a lot of nuance and isn't necessarily true. 106 00:03:56,880 --> 00:03:59,670 I know plenty of new houses that are built poorly, terribly, 107 00:03:59,670 --> 00:04:01,980 went up very quickly with cheap materials 108 00:04:01,980 --> 00:04:04,050 that might not need a ton of maintenance now, 109 00:04:04,050 --> 00:04:04,920 but, in 10 years, 110 00:04:04,920 --> 00:04:06,930 I don't want to be the owner of that house. 111 00:04:06,930 --> 00:04:08,790 - Are there things, when you think about, 112 00:04:08,790 --> 00:04:10,050 you know, kind of, if you're thinking about 113 00:04:10,050 --> 00:04:13,410 going in and saying, "Hey, I want to own an old house," 114 00:04:13,410 --> 00:04:16,290 like what do you need to assess in yourself 115 00:04:16,290 --> 00:04:19,440 whether you're going to be a good old house owner 116 00:04:19,440 --> 00:04:21,390 because I think some people find it intimidating 117 00:04:21,390 --> 00:04:22,620 quite honestly, right, 118 00:04:22,620 --> 00:04:24,547 because they're just like, "Oh, this is a project. 119 00:04:24,547 --> 00:04:26,190 "This is a labor of love." 120 00:04:26,190 --> 00:04:29,310 What makes me a good old house person? 121 00:04:29,310 --> 00:04:31,110 - I think you have to have the love. 122 00:04:31,110 --> 00:04:34,080 I think, just from a very superficial standpoint, 123 00:04:34,080 --> 00:04:36,187 I like to say, "Are you the kind of person that thinks, 124 00:04:36,187 --> 00:04:37,777 "'I want go to the beach every weekend?' 125 00:04:37,777 --> 00:04:39,227 "Or are you the kind of person that's like, 126 00:04:39,227 --> 00:04:40,807 "'Wow, I can't wait till the weekend hits. 127 00:04:40,807 --> 00:04:42,480 "'I've a lot of projects I want to work on.'" 128 00:04:42,480 --> 00:04:44,520 I think there are two kinds of people, 129 00:04:44,520 --> 00:04:47,100 and if you're in the right camp there, 130 00:04:47,100 --> 00:04:48,360 that's a starting point. 131 00:04:48,360 --> 00:04:50,640 - I think that that's the real thing 132 00:04:50,640 --> 00:04:52,050 is if you enjoy the projects 133 00:04:52,050 --> 00:04:53,670 and you enjoy working on your house, 134 00:04:53,670 --> 00:04:56,220 and, you know, if you have young kids, you're home anyway. 135 00:04:56,220 --> 00:04:57,420 It depends on your lifestyle 136 00:04:57,420 --> 00:05:00,120 and where you are in your life and your season of life, 137 00:05:00,120 --> 00:05:02,250 but if you are a beach person 138 00:05:02,250 --> 00:05:04,350 or, you know, someone who likes to fish, 139 00:05:04,350 --> 00:05:06,810 you know, hopefully you have a stream in your backyard 140 00:05:06,810 --> 00:05:08,205 or the beach outside. 141 00:05:08,205 --> 00:05:09,127 (Angie and Elizabeth laughing) 142 00:05:09,127 --> 00:05:10,290 (all laughing) 143 00:05:10,290 --> 00:05:11,940 - So, for someone who's listening 144 00:05:11,940 --> 00:05:14,220 who might be considering buying an older house, 145 00:05:14,220 --> 00:05:16,740 who doesn't know if it's worth investing in, 146 00:05:16,740 --> 00:05:19,290 what's the first thing you would tell them? 147 00:05:19,290 --> 00:05:21,360 - I would look at the structure itself. 148 00:05:21,360 --> 00:05:22,320 I think you have to make sure 149 00:05:22,320 --> 00:05:24,570 that the structure is in good condition. 150 00:05:24,570 --> 00:05:28,380 It's very easy to fall in love, speaking from experience. 151 00:05:28,380 --> 00:05:29,940 with all the pretty stuff. 152 00:05:29,940 --> 00:05:33,330 There's no question, old houses are filled with character. 153 00:05:33,330 --> 00:05:35,250 It's what makes them pop on Instagram. 154 00:05:35,250 --> 00:05:36,980 It's what makes us successful. People love it. 155 00:05:36,980 --> 00:05:39,510 It taps into sort of this nostalgia and beauty, 156 00:05:39,510 --> 00:05:40,680 and they love that. 157 00:05:40,680 --> 00:05:42,240 It's very easy to fall in love with that. 158 00:05:42,240 --> 00:05:43,710 And I think if you're looking at a house, 159 00:05:43,710 --> 00:05:44,730 you have to understand 160 00:05:44,730 --> 00:05:48,630 that if what you're buying can fit into your lifestyle, 161 00:05:48,630 --> 00:05:50,670 either you have to have enough money to fix it 162 00:05:50,670 --> 00:05:52,020 if it needs extreme repairs, 163 00:05:52,020 --> 00:05:53,670 or you have to be handy and crafty 164 00:05:53,670 --> 00:05:55,560 and have the time to be able to do that. 165 00:05:55,560 --> 00:05:58,050 And it also depends on what the house needs. 166 00:05:58,050 --> 00:06:01,260 So if the house has active water issues, 167 00:06:01,260 --> 00:06:02,880 you need to be able to seal them up. 168 00:06:02,880 --> 00:06:07,140 If the foundation requires, you know, heavy lifting, 169 00:06:07,140 --> 00:06:09,450 that's something that you can consider. 170 00:06:09,450 --> 00:06:11,190 If there are just aesthetic problems, 171 00:06:11,190 --> 00:06:12,360 and you have a lot of patience, 172 00:06:12,360 --> 00:06:13,890 and you can work on your house over time, 173 00:06:13,890 --> 00:06:15,570 I mean that's a great buy. 174 00:06:15,570 --> 00:06:17,190 I think also if you're buying, 175 00:06:17,190 --> 00:06:20,190 this is an, you know, age-old adage, 176 00:06:20,190 --> 00:06:23,010 but if you're buying the worst house on the best block, 177 00:06:23,010 --> 00:06:24,570 you know, that's going to go far for you. 178 00:06:24,570 --> 00:06:26,220 So there are a lot of factors to consider. 179 00:06:26,220 --> 00:06:29,340 I don't think this is a one-size-fits-all answer. 180 00:06:29,340 --> 00:06:32,130 - All houses are going to take some investment. 181 00:06:32,130 --> 00:06:36,060 I think looking at the cheap or affordable price 182 00:06:36,060 --> 00:06:38,160 or cheapest house on the block 183 00:06:38,160 --> 00:06:42,120 is always sort of a good nod to 184 00:06:42,120 --> 00:06:43,920 if you can get a little bit of value out of it. 185 00:06:43,920 --> 00:06:46,050 So, you know, we don't like to look at houses 186 00:06:46,050 --> 00:06:47,730 as investments, personally, 187 00:06:47,730 --> 00:06:50,040 but obviously that's a big, huge part of it 188 00:06:50,040 --> 00:06:54,240 in terms of home ownership and trying to acquire, you know, 189 00:06:54,240 --> 00:06:58,560 that wealth and have that house gain for you. 190 00:06:58,560 --> 00:07:00,990 So I think the bones matter a lot. 191 00:07:00,990 --> 00:07:04,290 I think, yeah, buying the worst house on the block 192 00:07:04,290 --> 00:07:05,580 can sometimes work 193 00:07:05,580 --> 00:07:06,870 as long as you're smart 194 00:07:06,870 --> 00:07:09,510 with the maintenance and the repairs. 195 00:07:09,510 --> 00:07:12,600 - I will say too, there is emotional investment. 196 00:07:12,600 --> 00:07:14,670 I think this is a place you're going to be in 197 00:07:14,670 --> 00:07:16,410 every day of your life, 198 00:07:16,410 --> 00:07:17,490 and you need to love it, 199 00:07:17,490 --> 00:07:18,900 and there are certainly times 200 00:07:18,900 --> 00:07:20,040 when we have worked on old houses 201 00:07:20,040 --> 00:07:21,360 where we're probably not going to get back 202 00:07:21,360 --> 00:07:22,290 what we put into it, 203 00:07:22,290 --> 00:07:25,770 but we love the thing we put in, and it's our house, 204 00:07:25,770 --> 00:07:29,400 and it's, if you think of houses just as, you know, 205 00:07:29,400 --> 00:07:31,830 sticks and stones and sort of just materials 206 00:07:31,830 --> 00:07:33,240 that are very transactional, 207 00:07:33,240 --> 00:07:34,800 you're going to have a different approach 208 00:07:34,800 --> 00:07:37,500 to what you think of an investment as being. 209 00:07:37,500 --> 00:07:39,450 - Sometimes it is hard to define 210 00:07:39,450 --> 00:07:43,470 where kind of your financial head stops 211 00:07:43,470 --> 00:07:47,130 and your emotional heart comes in and plays in this. 212 00:07:47,130 --> 00:07:49,410 When you're talking to people that are redoing houses, 213 00:07:49,410 --> 00:07:51,240 like how do they think about that? 214 00:07:51,240 --> 00:07:52,980 I mean, because it is honestly, 215 00:07:52,980 --> 00:07:55,290 it's like there's an element of how much enjoyment 216 00:07:55,290 --> 00:07:57,870 you get out of the home while you're living in it. 217 00:07:57,870 --> 00:08:00,210 - I think it's a few different factors. 218 00:08:00,210 --> 00:08:02,010 On the barometer scale, 219 00:08:02,010 --> 00:08:06,930 we know we're like 70% emotional and 30% financial focused. 220 00:08:06,930 --> 00:08:08,310 I think you have to know where- 221 00:08:08,310 --> 00:08:09,944 - Which one of us are you talking about? 222 00:08:09,944 --> 00:08:11,493 (all laughing) 223 00:08:11,493 --> 00:08:13,590 - Well, we both have, we both play our parts. 224 00:08:13,590 --> 00:08:15,510 - That's why we make a great team. (laughs) 225 00:08:15,510 --> 00:08:17,400 - And there there's a part to that 70%. 226 00:08:17,400 --> 00:08:19,782 Maybe I'm 50%, and Elizabeth is 20%, 227 00:08:19,782 --> 00:08:22,355 and, you know, or she's 50% emotional. 228 00:08:22,355 --> 00:08:23,188 (Elizabeth laughing) 229 00:08:23,188 --> 00:08:25,860 But, you know, I think you try to find that balance 230 00:08:25,860 --> 00:08:27,750 and find out where you are on the barometer, 231 00:08:27,750 --> 00:08:30,060 especially when you're buying that house. 232 00:08:30,060 --> 00:08:31,860 And then things also do change. 233 00:08:31,860 --> 00:08:34,680 You know, if you're in the house for 5, 10 years, 234 00:08:34,680 --> 00:08:35,970 a lot of stuff is going to change, 235 00:08:35,970 --> 00:08:37,440 and if you're deciding to stay, 236 00:08:37,440 --> 00:08:39,300 or if you're deciding to go, 237 00:08:39,300 --> 00:08:41,250 so I think the seasonality of just living there 238 00:08:41,250 --> 00:08:45,210 and focusing on kind of how you live there 239 00:08:45,210 --> 00:08:47,850 and if you're going to stick it for the long term. 240 00:08:47,850 --> 00:08:50,430 - You both have seen so many of these old houses. 241 00:08:50,430 --> 00:08:52,837 What are things, what are features you're like, 242 00:08:52,837 --> 00:08:56,460 "Hey, this one's got real potential because of X." 243 00:08:56,460 --> 00:08:59,940 - Yeah, I think anytime a house is in truly original state, 244 00:08:59,940 --> 00:09:00,930 I get very excited, 245 00:09:00,930 --> 00:09:03,690 and I know our audience does as well. 246 00:09:03,690 --> 00:09:06,540 You know, when the original features are in the house. 247 00:09:06,540 --> 00:09:08,880 If a house settles over time, 248 00:09:08,880 --> 00:09:10,770 its original windows settle with it. 249 00:09:10,770 --> 00:09:13,320 They're shaped like the house, the features that are in it. 250 00:09:13,320 --> 00:09:14,430 And they say, right, 251 00:09:14,430 --> 00:09:16,500 there are no right angles in old houses. 252 00:09:16,500 --> 00:09:18,880 But the things that were there in the beginning 253 00:09:20,100 --> 00:09:22,590 have shifted and formed with the house, 254 00:09:22,590 --> 00:09:24,660 so that nothing will fit better 255 00:09:24,660 --> 00:09:26,490 than the original features in a house. 256 00:09:26,490 --> 00:09:28,710 So we always try to encourage people, 257 00:09:28,710 --> 00:09:31,680 if you're buying a house, to keep those bones. 258 00:09:31,680 --> 00:09:33,480 Anything affixed to the house, 259 00:09:33,480 --> 00:09:36,330 save as much of that as you possibly can. 260 00:09:36,330 --> 00:09:38,790 And then your own personal stuff in the house 261 00:09:38,790 --> 00:09:41,370 that's movable, have fun with that; express yourself. 262 00:09:41,370 --> 00:09:44,850 If it doesn't go with the era of the house but you love it, 263 00:09:44,850 --> 00:09:46,920 you know, that's not as important to us, 264 00:09:46,920 --> 00:09:48,690 but you are not the only person 265 00:09:48,690 --> 00:09:49,920 that's going to live in that house, 266 00:09:49,920 --> 00:09:52,800 and, fortunately, the people before you living there 267 00:09:52,800 --> 00:09:54,660 didn't muck it up before you, 268 00:09:54,660 --> 00:09:57,240 and that's why you have this beautiful, you know, thing. 269 00:09:57,240 --> 00:10:01,260 So we say keep away from five-minute trends, 270 00:10:01,260 --> 00:10:02,850 keep true to the house, 271 00:10:02,850 --> 00:10:05,610 and then consider yourself a steward of it 272 00:10:05,610 --> 00:10:06,900 in a greater timeline. 273 00:10:06,900 --> 00:10:09,060 - Sometimes you can find these little gems 274 00:10:09,060 --> 00:10:12,027 with some modern LVL flooring over, 275 00:10:12,027 --> 00:10:15,210 and then you have the old wood floors underneath. 276 00:10:15,210 --> 00:10:16,140 So that's something easy. 277 00:10:16,140 --> 00:10:17,280 You can kind of peek in the corner. 278 00:10:17,280 --> 00:10:18,840 Or maybe you have carpets. 279 00:10:18,840 --> 00:10:20,520 So that's a really fun one to have, 280 00:10:20,520 --> 00:10:23,310 old original flooring in the house. 281 00:10:23,310 --> 00:10:25,950 I think old fireplaces, old mantles, 282 00:10:25,950 --> 00:10:28,950 obviously the newel posts when you walk in. 283 00:10:28,950 --> 00:10:30,540 Original windows, we like, 284 00:10:30,540 --> 00:10:33,660 but some people might want that more modern window, 285 00:10:33,660 --> 00:10:36,900 but I think a lot of these houses, you're coming in, 286 00:10:36,900 --> 00:10:39,060 and potentially there's hasn't been updating 287 00:10:39,060 --> 00:10:42,690 of plumbing, electrical, sometimes HVAC systems. 288 00:10:42,690 --> 00:10:43,920 So those are the core things. 289 00:10:43,920 --> 00:10:45,270 And insulation, you know. 290 00:10:45,270 --> 00:10:48,030 I think it depends on 291 00:10:48,030 --> 00:10:51,000 if these houses have had some of that updating 292 00:10:51,000 --> 00:10:52,890 and some of that love. 293 00:10:52,890 --> 00:10:55,140 So those are the things that, you know, aren't... 294 00:10:55,140 --> 00:10:59,010 Those are the financial, non-emotional side of things 295 00:10:59,010 --> 00:11:01,920 that if they have been updated, that's amazing. 296 00:11:01,920 --> 00:11:05,100 - I'm a big fan of fireplaces. 297 00:11:05,100 --> 00:11:06,270 Like I think those can be, 298 00:11:06,270 --> 00:11:08,730 like, those can make make a house. 299 00:11:08,730 --> 00:11:11,370 I have one that I like a lot in my house, 300 00:11:11,370 --> 00:11:13,110 and I'm just, like, if we change the house, 301 00:11:13,110 --> 00:11:14,910 I think I would reconfigure around it. 302 00:11:14,910 --> 00:11:18,200 - So in our fixer upper that we bought for $70,000, 303 00:11:18,200 --> 00:11:20,490 you know, I think most people design their beach home; 304 00:11:20,490 --> 00:11:22,320 we're designing our winter home 305 00:11:22,320 --> 00:11:25,800 where we have seven fireplaces in this place, 306 00:11:25,800 --> 00:11:28,110 and we are designing it around the fireplaces 307 00:11:28,110 --> 00:11:32,580 because we love that hygge sort of, you know, 308 00:11:32,580 --> 00:11:34,980 very warm, cozy. 309 00:11:34,980 --> 00:11:37,260 We live in the northeast; it's very cold. 310 00:11:37,260 --> 00:11:39,510 It was really cold this last year, 311 00:11:39,510 --> 00:11:43,350 and, you know, I think we like to plan around the fireplace. 312 00:11:43,350 --> 00:11:45,210 - Fireplaces are one of those things 313 00:11:45,210 --> 00:11:47,490 that in all the advancements 314 00:11:47,490 --> 00:11:49,830 and all the things we've done in homes, 315 00:11:49,830 --> 00:11:53,179 fireplaces are kind of the same as they've been, (laughs) 316 00:11:53,179 --> 00:11:54,750 you know, 300 years ago. 317 00:11:54,750 --> 00:11:56,490 It's just fire heating your house, 318 00:11:56,490 --> 00:12:00,900 and I think that people love how real that feels, 319 00:12:00,900 --> 00:12:03,750 and there is a reason why you and us, 320 00:12:03,750 --> 00:12:06,810 and we always want to kind of gather around that. 321 00:12:06,810 --> 00:12:08,430 - I feel like it kind of helps 322 00:12:08,430 --> 00:12:10,470 to replace the phone in your hand, 323 00:12:10,470 --> 00:12:12,487 and you're like, "Ah, I don't need that. 324 00:12:12,487 --> 00:12:14,730 "I can cozy up with a book and get back to real life." 325 00:12:14,730 --> 00:12:16,800 I think Gen Z is coming into this 326 00:12:16,800 --> 00:12:19,230 where they want real experiences. 327 00:12:19,230 --> 00:12:22,380 - Hey, we want to actually have something that we can feel. 328 00:12:22,380 --> 00:12:23,213 Right. 329 00:12:23,213 --> 00:12:24,046 - Right. 330 00:12:24,046 --> 00:12:26,970 - So, Ethan, you said you bought your house for $70,000, 331 00:12:26,970 --> 00:12:29,340 which, you know, that is like, "Wow!" 332 00:12:29,340 --> 00:12:31,170 to buy a house for $70,000, 333 00:12:31,170 --> 00:12:34,140 but walk us through what the budget looks like. 334 00:12:34,140 --> 00:12:36,780 When we're looking at a house that we see on your Instagram, 335 00:12:36,780 --> 00:12:39,150 and it's, you know, $70,000, 336 00:12:39,150 --> 00:12:40,740 how should I be thinking about that 337 00:12:40,740 --> 00:12:43,200 as far as like over the first couple of years 338 00:12:43,200 --> 00:12:44,100 that I'm owning it. 339 00:12:44,100 --> 00:12:47,760 Some of those $70,000 ones might be livable; some may not. 340 00:12:47,760 --> 00:12:49,980 You know, what's the path? 341 00:12:49,980 --> 00:12:51,570 - Well interestingly, Ethan, 342 00:12:51,570 --> 00:12:52,470 if you could talk to, 343 00:12:52,470 --> 00:12:54,300 we have a really good example of this 344 00:12:54,300 --> 00:12:57,570 because we just finished a house for Ethan's mom 345 00:12:57,570 --> 00:12:59,730 that we bought for $27,000, 346 00:12:59,730 --> 00:13:02,460 and we just wrapped that project, 347 00:13:02,460 --> 00:13:03,870 so we have all the numbers, 348 00:13:03,870 --> 00:13:05,490 and so I think that, for us too, 349 00:13:05,490 --> 00:13:06,960 that was an interesting test case 350 00:13:06,960 --> 00:13:08,580 'cause it was really full circle for us 351 00:13:08,580 --> 00:13:09,450 in talking about that. 352 00:13:09,450 --> 00:13:13,080 - So, for us, that house, you know, 353 00:13:13,080 --> 00:13:14,940 this was a soup to nuts house. 354 00:13:14,940 --> 00:13:16,440 This is a... 355 00:13:16,440 --> 00:13:17,550 It needed everything. 356 00:13:17,550 --> 00:13:19,800 So I have a great perfect budget. 357 00:13:19,800 --> 00:13:24,330 It's a 2,400 square foot house, three bedrooms. 358 00:13:24,330 --> 00:13:29,130 It's sort of your average home from the 1880s, 1890s. 359 00:13:29,130 --> 00:13:31,023 We bought it for $27,000, 360 00:13:31,890 --> 00:13:35,400 and we worked on it for about a year and a half, 361 00:13:35,400 --> 00:13:37,770 and the first phase for us 362 00:13:37,770 --> 00:13:41,040 was really structural, foundational, and systems. 363 00:13:41,040 --> 00:13:44,700 So we needed to get the basement up and running. 364 00:13:44,700 --> 00:13:46,980 We needed the floor joists to be up and running. 365 00:13:46,980 --> 00:13:49,560 Many of the floor joists on the first floor were not good. 366 00:13:49,560 --> 00:13:52,470 This is a very low, a high-level water, 367 00:13:52,470 --> 00:13:54,150 high water table area, 368 00:13:54,150 --> 00:13:57,783 so there's a lot of rot that kind of started to come up, 369 00:13:58,800 --> 00:14:02,040 but the old bones, the main sticks, 370 00:14:02,040 --> 00:14:05,010 were all in great working order. 371 00:14:05,010 --> 00:14:06,660 So we spent $50,000 372 00:14:06,660 --> 00:14:11,040 on all structural and leveling systems 373 00:14:11,040 --> 00:14:13,740 and then some exterior painting. 374 00:14:13,740 --> 00:14:18,420 So that was where we landed for some concrete work, 375 00:14:18,420 --> 00:14:23,010 basement-leveling work, and putting our basement joists in. 376 00:14:23,010 --> 00:14:27,810 Then the next 50, I would say, was in systems: 377 00:14:27,810 --> 00:14:30,450 plumbing, electrical, HVAC. 378 00:14:30,450 --> 00:14:33,927 So HVAC is about 15,20, 379 00:14:33,927 --> 00:14:38,130 and then you have electrical 10 to 15 380 00:14:38,130 --> 00:14:40,140 for whole house rewiring, 381 00:14:40,140 --> 00:14:43,200 and then plumbing about 10 to 15 as well. 382 00:14:43,200 --> 00:14:45,900 So just in terms of looking at those, 383 00:14:45,900 --> 00:14:49,440 and then we're talking drywall, trim, millwork, paint, 384 00:14:49,440 --> 00:14:50,700 and that's the last 50. 385 00:14:50,700 --> 00:14:55,470 So we spent $150,000 on one of these soup to nuts projects. 386 00:14:55,470 --> 00:14:58,500 I hope someone out there buys a house 387 00:14:58,500 --> 00:15:00,690 that's cheaper and has more things 388 00:15:00,690 --> 00:15:02,610 than we had in this home, (laughs) 389 00:15:02,610 --> 00:15:06,120 so they could be a lot more advantaged 390 00:15:06,120 --> 00:15:07,860 in terms of their budget. 391 00:15:07,860 --> 00:15:09,750 Obviously you can spend much more. 392 00:15:09,750 --> 00:15:12,510 Our $70,000 house is a personal pet project of ours. 393 00:15:12,510 --> 00:15:14,880 So we're doing a lot of things 394 00:15:14,880 --> 00:15:16,230 like these seven fireplaces 395 00:15:16,230 --> 00:15:17,750 that no one needs in their house, 396 00:15:17,750 --> 00:15:18,630 (Elizabeth laughs) 397 00:15:18,630 --> 00:15:19,463 but we are doing it. 398 00:15:19,463 --> 00:15:21,780 So it's a little bit of a specialized project that. 399 00:15:21,780 --> 00:15:23,580 - We plan to be there forever and ever and ever, 400 00:15:23,580 --> 00:15:27,210 so it's for sure something that we're investing. 401 00:15:27,210 --> 00:15:28,440 - You're doing it for your life, 402 00:15:28,440 --> 00:15:30,900 not for, yeah, yeah, not for others. 403 00:15:30,900 --> 00:15:32,790 - But what's amazing, I'll say, 404 00:15:32,790 --> 00:15:34,530 in terms of the financial component 405 00:15:34,530 --> 00:15:37,620 for my mom and her setup 406 00:15:37,620 --> 00:15:41,280 is that, you know, we got a construction loan 407 00:15:41,280 --> 00:15:43,200 to get this $150,000, 408 00:15:43,200 --> 00:15:45,660 and we're paying 6.5% on it, 409 00:15:45,660 --> 00:15:48,330 and that's equals to about $1,100 a month, 410 00:15:48,330 --> 00:15:51,540 and we got into the housing game with that house 411 00:15:51,540 --> 00:15:55,533 by paying it $27,000 and paying it off right away. 412 00:15:56,400 --> 00:15:58,350 So we didn't have a mortgage on the home per se, 413 00:15:58,350 --> 00:16:00,630 but we did have a mortgage on the construction, 414 00:16:00,630 --> 00:16:03,420 and so we're going to be stuck in this for five years 415 00:16:03,420 --> 00:16:04,620 paying this $1,100, 416 00:16:04,620 --> 00:16:07,320 but if we wanted to bring it to a 30-year mortgage, 417 00:16:07,320 --> 00:16:10,590 we could get the payments down to like $600-$700 a month 418 00:16:10,590 --> 00:16:13,650 which is wicked affordable for my mom, 419 00:16:13,650 --> 00:16:16,200 and just, I think, a solution for folks 420 00:16:16,200 --> 00:16:18,630 who are looking for affordable housing 421 00:16:18,630 --> 00:16:19,590 just all around the country. 422 00:16:19,590 --> 00:16:22,230 We have these houses that are really all around the country, 423 00:16:22,230 --> 00:16:27,230 and I think this is a really fun solution tool capability, 424 00:16:27,990 --> 00:16:31,590 but it's been a fun case study and test for us. 425 00:16:31,590 --> 00:16:34,050 - Do you feel like you have to be a DIYer 426 00:16:34,050 --> 00:16:36,150 to tackle an old house, 427 00:16:36,150 --> 00:16:37,680 or is this something 428 00:16:37,680 --> 00:16:40,443 that someone that is going to hire it out, 429 00:16:41,627 --> 00:16:43,577 or do you get your finances upside down 430 00:16:44,451 --> 00:16:46,440 if you don't have a knack for kind of hanging drywall 431 00:16:46,440 --> 00:16:47,940 and things like that yourself? 432 00:16:48,780 --> 00:16:50,250 - I think you need to prioritize. 433 00:16:50,250 --> 00:16:52,200 So I think you need to know what your skill level is, 434 00:16:52,200 --> 00:16:54,240 and you need to know what your bank account looks like, 435 00:16:54,240 --> 00:16:55,320 and parse it out. 436 00:16:55,320 --> 00:16:59,460 So I absolutely do not think you need to be a DIYer. 437 00:16:59,460 --> 00:17:01,860 and I would suggest not DIYing things 438 00:17:01,860 --> 00:17:03,695 that might burn your house down. (laughs) 439 00:17:03,695 --> 00:17:04,528 (Angie laughing) 440 00:17:04,528 --> 00:17:05,790 So I say that jokingly, 441 00:17:05,790 --> 00:17:06,738 but one of the, 442 00:17:06,738 --> 00:17:07,571 you know, - It's true. 443 00:17:07,571 --> 00:17:08,670 one of the things that often 444 00:17:08,670 --> 00:17:10,740 it's not the old house that's the problem. 445 00:17:10,740 --> 00:17:13,140 It's the thing that the guy did in 1984 446 00:17:13,140 --> 00:17:16,470 where he, you know, connected something wrong in a new part 447 00:17:16,470 --> 00:17:18,870 that messed up the old bones of the house. 448 00:17:18,870 --> 00:17:23,870 So I do think DIY can be as detrimental as it can be great, 449 00:17:23,910 --> 00:17:26,490 and it can be very great if you find yourself handy 450 00:17:26,490 --> 00:17:27,840 and you like doing it 451 00:17:27,840 --> 00:17:29,250 and you want to learn the things. 452 00:17:29,250 --> 00:17:31,500 We have people in our "Cheap Old Houses" community 453 00:17:31,500 --> 00:17:34,320 that have figured out how to DIY everything, 454 00:17:34,320 --> 00:17:36,480 and they do not come from contractor backgrounds. 455 00:17:36,480 --> 00:17:38,400 So I do think it's possible, 456 00:17:38,400 --> 00:17:42,000 but we don't feel any bias one way or another. 457 00:17:42,000 --> 00:17:43,650 I think it's specific to your case, 458 00:17:43,650 --> 00:17:45,960 and if you can afford to pay an expert, 459 00:17:45,960 --> 00:17:48,930 by all means pay that expert to come in and do it right. 460 00:17:48,930 --> 00:17:51,390 - I think, regardless, you're going to want be involved 461 00:17:51,390 --> 00:17:53,310 because you're going to want to do some paint, 462 00:17:53,310 --> 00:17:54,780 you might want to do some stripping, 463 00:17:54,780 --> 00:17:56,820 you might want to do something 464 00:17:56,820 --> 00:17:59,452 and find out where your place is in it, 465 00:17:59,452 --> 00:18:02,190 so I think just not shying away 466 00:18:02,190 --> 00:18:03,180 because there's going to be times 467 00:18:03,180 --> 00:18:05,010 where your purse strings are a little tight, 468 00:18:05,010 --> 00:18:06,990 and then you're going to want to spend more on something 469 00:18:06,990 --> 00:18:08,970 and get it moving fast 'cause you're busy. 470 00:18:08,970 --> 00:18:09,990 - My takeaway from this 471 00:18:09,990 --> 00:18:14,640 is be super honest with yourself about whether you can DIY. 472 00:18:14,640 --> 00:18:17,130 This is not a time to kind of, you know, 473 00:18:17,130 --> 00:18:20,130 kind of stretch your truth, right? 474 00:18:20,130 --> 00:18:23,070 If you're in over your head, hire a pro, 475 00:18:23,070 --> 00:18:26,190 and then also it's a great time to be curious. 476 00:18:26,190 --> 00:18:28,710 It's a great time to be curious about what they're doing. 477 00:18:28,710 --> 00:18:31,740 You should invest in time with that contractor you're hiring 478 00:18:31,740 --> 00:18:35,400 so that you can pick up some tidbits along the way. 479 00:18:35,400 --> 00:18:36,233 - Oh, yeah. 480 00:18:36,233 --> 00:18:37,440 Home ownership is such a journey, 481 00:18:37,440 --> 00:18:40,800 and it's like raising a kid, you know. 482 00:18:40,800 --> 00:18:42,030 You keep learning as you go. 483 00:18:42,030 --> 00:18:43,290 There's no manual per se. (laughs) 484 00:18:43,290 --> 00:18:45,210 - There is no manual. That's exactly right. 485 00:18:45,210 --> 00:18:47,190 I tell people that there is no manual 486 00:18:47,190 --> 00:18:50,130 for owning a house and maintaining it. 487 00:18:50,130 --> 00:18:53,490 I lived, 20 years ago, in a 1920s house. 488 00:18:53,490 --> 00:18:55,267 I would tell people, I was like, 489 00:18:55,267 --> 00:18:57,750 "That was my favorite house." 490 00:18:57,750 --> 00:19:01,260 But we ended up moving, you know, to the suburbs, 491 00:19:01,260 --> 00:19:05,820 to a newer house when I had my second child 492 00:19:05,820 --> 00:19:08,490 because we didn't have enough space. 493 00:19:08,490 --> 00:19:10,380 I don't know that I'm alone in this, right, 494 00:19:10,380 --> 00:19:13,470 that the old houses, you know, kind of their structure. 495 00:19:13,470 --> 00:19:16,500 So, you know, people like bigger bathrooms. 496 00:19:16,500 --> 00:19:18,180 People like bigger closets. 497 00:19:18,180 --> 00:19:22,230 So what's your take whether you invest in a larger bathroom 498 00:19:22,230 --> 00:19:24,120 or a larger closet in a house, 499 00:19:24,120 --> 00:19:26,760 or does that cross the line 500 00:19:26,760 --> 00:19:29,223 of staying true to the integrity of the house? 501 00:19:30,990 --> 00:19:34,800 - I do think it is okay to retrofit houses 502 00:19:34,800 --> 00:19:38,160 for basic modern needs. 503 00:19:38,160 --> 00:19:40,890 There are things that some old houses just don't have, 504 00:19:40,890 --> 00:19:43,777 but I think you can do it sensitively. 505 00:19:43,777 --> 00:19:45,930 I don't think that adding a closet to a house 506 00:19:45,930 --> 00:19:48,300 necessarily means completely destroying the character 507 00:19:48,300 --> 00:19:49,170 of the house. 508 00:19:49,170 --> 00:19:50,940 When you add that closet, 509 00:19:50,940 --> 00:19:52,410 look at the millwork in the house, 510 00:19:52,410 --> 00:19:53,880 look at the height of the other doors, 511 00:19:53,880 --> 00:19:56,490 try to align it, try to match it up. 512 00:19:56,490 --> 00:19:59,400 You know, if you're just removing a corner of a room, 513 00:19:59,400 --> 00:20:00,240 it's okay. 514 00:20:00,240 --> 00:20:03,810 Old houses, in many cases, 515 00:20:03,810 --> 00:20:05,610 have been added to over time, 516 00:20:05,610 --> 00:20:07,860 and those are sometimes the quirks of them 517 00:20:07,860 --> 00:20:09,450 that we love the most, right, 518 00:20:09,450 --> 00:20:13,470 like the pink 1920s bathroom in the 1850s house. 519 00:20:13,470 --> 00:20:15,030 It's really fun now 'cause it's a vintage 520 00:20:15,030 --> 00:20:17,820 even though it might not be original to the house. 521 00:20:17,820 --> 00:20:20,907 I do think that you can do it sensitively, 522 00:20:20,907 --> 00:20:23,617 and I don't think the conversation should ever be, 523 00:20:23,617 --> 00:20:24,450 "Don't do anything. 524 00:20:24,450 --> 00:20:25,770 "Don't change anything in your old house," 525 00:20:25,770 --> 00:20:28,650 because that just creates, you know, 526 00:20:28,650 --> 00:20:30,450 a world in which people can't evolve. 527 00:20:30,450 --> 00:20:32,430 And I think people need to be educated 528 00:20:32,430 --> 00:20:34,710 and really think about how to retrofit these houses 529 00:20:34,710 --> 00:20:36,030 to modern living for sure. 530 00:20:36,030 --> 00:20:38,280 Another thing that you didn't mention 531 00:20:38,280 --> 00:20:39,300 that are very different 532 00:20:39,300 --> 00:20:41,400 than how we used to live are kitchens. 533 00:20:41,400 --> 00:20:42,600 In Victorian houses, 534 00:20:42,600 --> 00:20:45,450 the kitchen was considered dirty, off-limits. 535 00:20:45,450 --> 00:20:47,520 It was all the way in the back of the house. 536 00:20:47,520 --> 00:20:48,660 Now we have kitchens, 537 00:20:48,660 --> 00:20:50,430 that everybody hangs out in the kitchen. 538 00:20:50,430 --> 00:20:51,870 It's in the center of the home. 539 00:20:51,870 --> 00:20:53,550 So how do you think about that? 540 00:20:53,550 --> 00:20:54,900 And it doesn't necessarily mean 541 00:20:54,900 --> 00:20:56,670 that you have to rip out whatever room 542 00:20:56,670 --> 00:20:58,080 is in the center of the house of the house 543 00:20:58,080 --> 00:20:59,370 and put the kitchen there, 544 00:20:59,370 --> 00:21:01,320 but you can definitely think about ways 545 00:21:01,320 --> 00:21:03,270 to integrate the kitchen more into the home, 546 00:21:03,270 --> 00:21:04,950 and that's not a bad thing at all. 547 00:21:04,950 --> 00:21:08,280 The $70,000 house we own is from the late 1700s. 548 00:21:08,280 --> 00:21:09,240 It's quite old. 549 00:21:09,240 --> 00:21:10,320 And even back then, 550 00:21:10,320 --> 00:21:11,490 when they needed more space, 551 00:21:11,490 --> 00:21:13,080 they would just add on to the house. 552 00:21:13,080 --> 00:21:16,050 They didn't have a mentality that you keep the house frozen. 553 00:21:16,050 --> 00:21:16,980 They would add on. 554 00:21:16,980 --> 00:21:19,470 And so when we needed more space in that house, 555 00:21:19,470 --> 00:21:21,630 we did exactly what they would've done back then. 556 00:21:21,630 --> 00:21:26,630 So the idea of evolving a house is not wrong, 557 00:21:27,390 --> 00:21:30,120 and so, it's for sure okay to do it, 558 00:21:30,120 --> 00:21:33,000 but always do it with the character of the house in mind. 559 00:21:33,000 --> 00:21:34,740 - Yeah. That's great. 560 00:21:34,740 --> 00:21:36,870 So you've built a community 561 00:21:36,870 --> 00:21:39,900 of nearly 3 million people that are following you, 562 00:21:39,900 --> 00:21:42,870 checking out your cheap old houses that you're posting. 563 00:21:42,870 --> 00:21:44,547 What are people most excited about, 564 00:21:44,547 --> 00:21:46,440 and what are they looking for right now? 565 00:21:46,440 --> 00:21:48,390 - I think people always get obsessed 566 00:21:48,390 --> 00:21:50,670 over the unique properties, 567 00:21:50,670 --> 00:21:55,348 something that is on a lake or a mill or a bank. 568 00:21:55,348 --> 00:21:56,520 (Elizabeth laughing) 569 00:21:56,520 --> 00:21:59,490 These odd properties, these are always fan favorites, 570 00:21:59,490 --> 00:22:02,280 and they're always cheap over at "Cheap Old Houses." 571 00:22:02,280 --> 00:22:05,340 - It's always a good idea to spend beneath your means. 572 00:22:05,340 --> 00:22:07,830 But I think, too, in this AI world, 573 00:22:07,830 --> 00:22:12,420 we see people really digging deeper into authenticity, 574 00:22:12,420 --> 00:22:14,400 and that is something that these houses have. 575 00:22:14,400 --> 00:22:18,780 These houses remind you of a past time, 576 00:22:18,780 --> 00:22:21,450 or they remind you of, perhaps, 577 00:22:21,450 --> 00:22:23,850 the kitchen that your great-aunt had 578 00:22:23,850 --> 00:22:24,727 that you're, like, "Oh my gosh, 579 00:22:24,727 --> 00:22:26,820 "I've totally been in that kitchen," (laughs) 580 00:22:26,820 --> 00:22:28,590 And I think that there's something 581 00:22:28,590 --> 00:22:31,680 that is grounding about that for people. 582 00:22:31,680 --> 00:22:33,570 People love a good time capsule, 583 00:22:33,570 --> 00:22:36,900 the kind that looks like the lady left the house in 1947 584 00:22:36,900 --> 00:22:38,190 and just never came back, (laughs) 585 00:22:38,190 --> 00:22:39,023 and it's just, 586 00:22:39,023 --> 00:22:40,182 - Oh, yeah. 587 00:22:40,182 --> 00:22:41,015 - as it is. 588 00:22:41,015 --> 00:22:42,120 And I think the combination 589 00:22:42,120 --> 00:22:45,480 of these houses being cheap and being old 590 00:22:45,480 --> 00:22:49,650 kind of leads to an interesting study 591 00:22:49,650 --> 00:22:52,590 in that a lot of them are in places 592 00:22:52,590 --> 00:22:54,210 where the property values are lower. 593 00:22:54,210 --> 00:22:57,870 There might not be as much sort of disposable income 594 00:22:57,870 --> 00:23:00,240 for people to be updating their house constantly. 595 00:23:00,240 --> 00:23:02,400 So, because of that, they have the same kitchen 596 00:23:02,400 --> 00:23:03,900 that they had for 70 years, 597 00:23:03,900 --> 00:23:06,360 and so they're kind of a window into another time. 598 00:23:06,360 --> 00:23:08,370 In a world where you're scrolling, 599 00:23:08,370 --> 00:23:11,010 and you're constantly seeing things updating, 600 00:23:11,010 --> 00:23:12,900 and, you know, these are kind of like the befores, 601 00:23:12,900 --> 00:23:16,050 and there's something very soothing about that for people. 602 00:23:16,050 --> 00:23:18,510 - So I have a practical question for you. 603 00:23:18,510 --> 00:23:19,980 I've been on your Instagram feed. 604 00:23:19,980 --> 00:23:21,510 I've seen some houses. 605 00:23:21,510 --> 00:23:22,860 And I'm thinking about this. 606 00:23:22,860 --> 00:23:24,930 I'm like, just the practical process 607 00:23:24,930 --> 00:23:26,700 of going through buying a house like this, 608 00:23:26,700 --> 00:23:30,360 'cause it's probably not near my house today. 609 00:23:30,360 --> 00:23:32,820 How do I have the support that I need 610 00:23:32,820 --> 00:23:34,290 to kind of make that decision 611 00:23:34,290 --> 00:23:38,190 if I'm kind of jumping into an old house for the first time 612 00:23:38,190 --> 00:23:40,080 'cause sometimes you've got to make a decision quick 613 00:23:40,080 --> 00:23:41,940 on whether you're buying or not, you know, 614 00:23:41,940 --> 00:23:44,970 especially if it is priced at a really interesting price. 615 00:23:44,970 --> 00:23:48,630 What do you suggest to buyers who are venturing out? 616 00:23:48,630 --> 00:23:50,790 - I think we've heard all the stories 617 00:23:50,790 --> 00:23:54,330 of how folks have acquired these houses. 618 00:23:54,330 --> 00:23:57,420 Some folks actually get in their car, 619 00:23:57,420 --> 00:23:59,070 and they make an appointment with the agent. 620 00:23:59,070 --> 00:24:00,870 So the first thing is, 621 00:24:00,870 --> 00:24:03,840 you gotta contact the agent that we list on the post. 622 00:24:03,840 --> 00:24:06,540 So you're going to contact the agent directly. 623 00:24:06,540 --> 00:24:09,330 You might be able to have them do a little video tour, 624 00:24:09,330 --> 00:24:10,260 or they might be able to give you 625 00:24:10,260 --> 00:24:11,580 a little bit more information. 626 00:24:11,580 --> 00:24:13,800 So you might want to just kind of contact them, 627 00:24:13,800 --> 00:24:16,050 see what this house is about, 628 00:24:16,050 --> 00:24:17,190 get a little bit more information, 629 00:24:17,190 --> 00:24:19,830 see if it's a project you're worth taking on. 630 00:24:19,830 --> 00:24:22,470 And then you're going to really want to see it. 631 00:24:22,470 --> 00:24:25,560 Try to avoid taking on a project 632 00:24:25,560 --> 00:24:27,720 that is across the country from you 633 00:24:27,720 --> 00:24:28,950 unless you're going to move there. 634 00:24:28,950 --> 00:24:30,870 - Or you have family there that can work on it for you. 635 00:24:30,870 --> 00:24:32,880 I think you will begin to resent it. 636 00:24:32,880 --> 00:24:35,970 And that's a mistake we haven't made yet 637 00:24:35,970 --> 00:24:37,080 but we have nearly made, 638 00:24:37,080 --> 00:24:39,840 and I think we've talked ourselves out of it many times and- 639 00:24:39,840 --> 00:24:42,270 - But when we first bought our fixer upper, 640 00:24:42,270 --> 00:24:46,350 I was driving three hours away from the family, 641 00:24:46,350 --> 00:24:50,700 and I, you know, I was able to stay with family 642 00:24:50,700 --> 00:24:53,520 when I was working on the house initially, 643 00:24:53,520 --> 00:24:55,537 but it was like, "Oh, I want to also be home 644 00:24:55,537 --> 00:24:57,180 "or near the family." 645 00:24:57,180 --> 00:24:59,220 - So maybe the fixer upper isn't the thing 646 00:24:59,220 --> 00:25:01,260 that causes you to move across the country. 647 00:25:01,260 --> 00:25:03,420 Maybe you just need to expand your circle. 648 00:25:03,420 --> 00:25:05,550 So if you live in a metropolitan area, 649 00:25:05,550 --> 00:25:09,090 like what towns are within two hours of this area 650 00:25:09,090 --> 00:25:11,850 that, you know, might have some interesting finds. 651 00:25:11,850 --> 00:25:12,683 - Definitely. 652 00:25:12,683 --> 00:25:13,560 - Well and if you can live in the house 653 00:25:13,560 --> 00:25:14,760 while you're working on it, 654 00:25:14,760 --> 00:25:16,590 that will make your life easier too. 655 00:25:16,590 --> 00:25:20,070 If you can at least make one or two rooms livable 656 00:25:20,070 --> 00:25:21,960 and then be able to work on the rest of the house, 657 00:25:21,960 --> 00:25:23,190 that will change your situation. 658 00:25:23,190 --> 00:25:26,010 - I think another point of support 659 00:25:26,010 --> 00:25:29,880 is if the house has enough systems and services 660 00:25:29,880 --> 00:25:32,040 that you can get a mortgage. 661 00:25:32,040 --> 00:25:33,810 That's, you know, a lot of times, 662 00:25:33,810 --> 00:25:36,480 these cheap old houses are cash only, 663 00:25:36,480 --> 00:25:38,220 or, you know, you have to fix 'em up, 664 00:25:38,220 --> 00:25:40,935 and they say, "Bring your contractor." 665 00:25:40,935 --> 00:25:41,880 (Elizabeth laughing) 666 00:25:41,880 --> 00:25:44,880 And so I think if you have enough systems and services, 667 00:25:44,880 --> 00:25:46,410 that kind of gets you, 668 00:25:46,410 --> 00:25:48,215 even if it's $100,000 669 00:25:48,215 --> 00:25:50,940 or, you know, under $200,000, 670 00:25:50,940 --> 00:25:52,290 you're kind of getting that support 671 00:25:52,290 --> 00:25:55,020 to kind of work on the house while you're in it. 672 00:25:55,020 --> 00:25:57,120 - Yeah, let's touch on that one more time there, Ethan, 673 00:25:57,120 --> 00:25:58,140 'cause I think that's important. 674 00:25:58,140 --> 00:26:00,630 So to qualify for a mortgage, 675 00:26:00,630 --> 00:26:02,850 a house has to have certain criteria. 676 00:26:02,850 --> 00:26:03,683 - Right. 677 00:26:03,683 --> 00:26:08,683 So the house has to have electrical heating and cooling 678 00:26:08,700 --> 00:26:10,080 or potentially just heating 679 00:26:10,080 --> 00:26:13,380 if you're in the northeast anyway or in a colder climate, 680 00:26:13,380 --> 00:26:16,080 and you need a kitchen and a bathroom. 681 00:26:16,080 --> 00:26:20,280 So you need some basic systems to qualify for a mortgage, 682 00:26:20,280 --> 00:26:24,090 and if your fixer upper has those, 683 00:26:24,090 --> 00:26:25,920 you can get assistance from the bank, 684 00:26:25,920 --> 00:26:27,480 and that kind of gets you in the house 685 00:26:27,480 --> 00:26:30,090 so you can work on projects a little slower. 686 00:26:30,090 --> 00:26:31,777 - So you might, when you're debating, it's like, 687 00:26:31,777 --> 00:26:33,847 "Hey, do I want the $20,000 one, 688 00:26:33,847 --> 00:26:35,287 "that I'm going to have to pay cash for, 689 00:26:35,287 --> 00:26:37,057 "versus spend a little bit more 690 00:26:37,057 --> 00:26:38,944 "and find one that I could live in." 691 00:26:38,944 --> 00:26:41,340 You might opt to do that. 692 00:26:41,340 --> 00:26:42,173 - Right. 693 00:26:42,173 --> 00:26:43,006 - Which brings me back. 694 00:26:43,006 --> 00:26:43,950 You know, you all have said 695 00:26:43,950 --> 00:26:46,050 that we were thinking about the American Dream wrong, 696 00:26:46,050 --> 00:26:48,600 and I think you're actually pointing to something that, 697 00:26:48,600 --> 00:26:51,210 you know, it could be much more accessible, you know, 698 00:26:51,210 --> 00:26:53,340 when we think about kind of taking advantage 699 00:26:53,340 --> 00:26:55,110 of the cheap old housing stock 700 00:26:55,110 --> 00:26:57,390 that people have kind of left and forgotten. 701 00:26:57,390 --> 00:26:59,520 So tell me a little bit about that. 702 00:26:59,520 --> 00:27:00,960 - Well, there's just so much of it, 703 00:27:00,960 --> 00:27:03,630 and I do think it takes opening your mind 704 00:27:03,630 --> 00:27:05,160 to maybe different locations, 705 00:27:05,160 --> 00:27:08,730 but we found in the sort of post-COVID world we live in, 706 00:27:08,730 --> 00:27:13,290 where there is so much remote work happening, 707 00:27:13,290 --> 00:27:16,860 and, you know, we live in a very sort of rural area, 708 00:27:16,860 --> 00:27:19,230 and it has a very high percentage of entrepreneurs, 709 00:27:19,230 --> 00:27:21,960 so people doing all sorts of things: 710 00:27:21,960 --> 00:27:23,790 craftsmen, contractors. 711 00:27:23,790 --> 00:27:25,020 You know, they run their own businesses, 712 00:27:25,020 --> 00:27:26,850 and so you do have opportunity to move 713 00:27:26,850 --> 00:27:29,130 wherever, you know, you want to be. 714 00:27:29,130 --> 00:27:31,230 And I think, I just think our world, 715 00:27:31,230 --> 00:27:34,590 we're feeling a little bit kind of grossed out 716 00:27:34,590 --> 00:27:36,870 by, you know, you order something new, 717 00:27:36,870 --> 00:27:37,703 and it comes to you, 718 00:27:37,703 --> 00:27:39,960 and it's wrapped in so much styrofoam, 719 00:27:39,960 --> 00:27:41,760 and all of that is going into the landfill, 720 00:27:41,760 --> 00:27:43,230 and the thing you bought, you know, 721 00:27:43,230 --> 00:27:46,140 that took forever to get to you, isn't even well made, 722 00:27:46,140 --> 00:27:49,320 and I think we live in a very disposable world, 723 00:27:49,320 --> 00:27:52,860 and so a lot of people are becoming more and more anxious 724 00:27:52,860 --> 00:27:55,710 to sort of get something that's going to outlive you, 725 00:27:55,710 --> 00:27:56,543 that you can nurture, 726 00:27:56,543 --> 00:27:58,170 that feels worth investing in. 727 00:27:58,170 --> 00:28:01,350 I think the idea that instant gratification 728 00:28:01,350 --> 00:28:02,910 and you can get everything quickly, 729 00:28:02,910 --> 00:28:04,770 I think that's exhausting for people. 730 00:28:04,770 --> 00:28:06,393 I think people are overwhelmed. 731 00:28:07,410 --> 00:28:08,940 Yes, you can do things instantly, 732 00:28:08,940 --> 00:28:11,040 but do you have to do everything instantly all the time? 733 00:28:11,040 --> 00:28:15,330 I think the alternative lifestyle we're proposing, 734 00:28:15,330 --> 00:28:18,660 which is to slowly and methodically 735 00:28:18,660 --> 00:28:22,710 and with intention and with saving money, 736 00:28:22,710 --> 00:28:24,660 work on your house, 737 00:28:24,660 --> 00:28:28,320 is great permission to throw that philosophy out the window 738 00:28:28,320 --> 00:28:29,167 and say, "You know what? 739 00:28:29,167 --> 00:28:30,900 "I'm just going to take my time with this." 740 00:28:30,900 --> 00:28:33,173 I think people really want that right now. 741 00:28:33,173 --> 00:28:35,160 I think it's exhausting. (laughs) 742 00:28:35,160 --> 00:28:38,490 - I think for us, I think that for us, 743 00:28:38,490 --> 00:28:41,550 I would call us elder millennials. 744 00:28:41,550 --> 00:28:44,190 So we were maybe one of the first generations 745 00:28:44,190 --> 00:28:47,280 to really go through a digital evolution 746 00:28:47,280 --> 00:28:49,650 and to be burnt out by it, 747 00:28:49,650 --> 00:28:51,840 and then to want to retire 748 00:28:51,840 --> 00:28:55,350 by painting and doing things methodically and slow. 749 00:28:55,350 --> 00:28:58,140 I think, as the younger generations come up, 750 00:28:58,140 --> 00:28:59,880 and we are scrolling constantly 751 00:28:59,880 --> 00:29:01,650 and just constantly exhausted 752 00:29:01,650 --> 00:29:06,330 and being blasted in information in digital, 753 00:29:06,330 --> 00:29:09,360 we are going to want more human experiences, 754 00:29:09,360 --> 00:29:11,190 and I think that's what this allows us 755 00:29:11,190 --> 00:29:15,660 is the capability for slow methodical thinking 756 00:29:15,660 --> 00:29:16,860 and intentional living 757 00:29:16,860 --> 00:29:19,350 with things that are beautiful around us 758 00:29:19,350 --> 00:29:21,630 that we want to be surrounded by 759 00:29:21,630 --> 00:29:24,120 instead of just the scroll. 760 00:29:24,120 --> 00:29:25,470 - Great. That's great. 761 00:29:25,470 --> 00:29:27,270 Awesome. Well this has been a lot of fun. 762 00:29:27,270 --> 00:29:28,807 It was good to catch up. 763 00:29:28,807 --> 00:29:29,640 - Great to see you. 764 00:29:29,640 --> 00:29:30,990 - Thanks, Angie. 765 00:29:30,990 --> 00:29:32,040 - Here's what I'm taking away 766 00:29:32,040 --> 00:29:34,380 from my chat with Elizabeth and Ethan today. 767 00:29:34,380 --> 00:29:36,840 On the surface, this feels like a conversation 768 00:29:36,840 --> 00:29:38,700 about budgets and basements, 769 00:29:38,700 --> 00:29:40,200 but it's actually more than that. 770 00:29:40,200 --> 00:29:42,540 It's a new way to think about home. 771 00:29:42,540 --> 00:29:44,700 It's slow, it's intentional, 772 00:29:44,700 --> 00:29:46,830 it's something meant to outlast you. 773 00:29:46,830 --> 00:29:48,210 And for a lot of people right now, 774 00:29:48,210 --> 00:29:50,940 that feels less like a renovation project 775 00:29:50,940 --> 00:29:52,380 and more like a relief. 776 00:29:52,380 --> 00:29:53,670 But as it turns out, 777 00:29:53,670 --> 00:29:56,100 that philosophy has a business case too. 778 00:29:56,100 --> 00:29:59,580 Know where you land on the financial to emotional barometer 779 00:29:59,580 --> 00:30:01,230 and be honest about it. 780 00:30:01,230 --> 00:30:04,620 Folks that thrive on these projects enjoy the actual work, 781 00:30:04,620 --> 00:30:05,910 not just the result. 782 00:30:05,910 --> 00:30:08,130 So you need to clear your weekend calendar. 783 00:30:08,130 --> 00:30:10,657 The phrase that really stuck with me was actually 784 00:30:10,657 --> 00:30:13,657 "to consider yourself a steward in a greater timeline, 785 00:30:13,657 --> 00:30:15,330 "not an owner." 786 00:30:15,330 --> 00:30:16,770 That's a real mind shift, 787 00:30:16,770 --> 00:30:20,133 and it really makes you rethink how you define home. 788 00:30:21,090 --> 00:30:22,470 Thanks for watching "Own It," 789 00:30:22,470 --> 00:30:24,210 and if you enjoyed today's episode, 790 00:30:24,210 --> 00:30:26,610 please subscribe and give us a review, 791 00:30:26,610 --> 00:30:29,160 and don't forget to share it with someone who could use it. 792 00:30:29,160 --> 00:30:31,710 No matter what house you live in, live in it 793 00:30:31,710 --> 00:30:34,530 like someone's going to be living in it after you. 794 00:30:34,530 --> 00:30:36,360 Skip the five-minute trends. 795 00:30:36,360 --> 00:30:37,860 Save the bones. 796 00:30:37,860 --> 00:30:39,150 I'll see you next time. 797 00:30:39,150 --> 00:30:41,004 This is Angie Hicks with "Own It." 798 00:30:41,004 --> 00:30:42,072 (air popping)