it's a lot easier to trust the process if you really know the person who's going through the process and you trust that person.

You are listening to Mama. Let's Talk the podcast where real moms get real about connection, growth, and the beautiful chaos of motherhood. I'm your host, Angela Hare. Life coach, wife, mama of two girls and fellow traveler in this wild, messy, magical thing we call parenting. If you're craving honest conversations, practical tips, and a reminder that you're not alone, you're in the right place. So, hey mama, let's talk.

Hey mama. Welcome back to another episode of Mama, let's Talk. I cannot wait to dig into today's topic with one of my most favorite people. We're talking about the quiet grief of outgrowing old versions of yourself. This is not the dramatic movie scene kind of grief. There's no sad playlist or crying in the shower at 2:00 AM with mascara running down your face. It's the sneaky kind. This is the grief that shows up on a random Tuesday when you realize, oh, I don't actually fit in my old life the way I used to. You don't react the same. You don't tolerate the same things. The conversations that once felt normal now just feel exhausting. And the version of you who used to say, I'm fine to everything, well that girl is suddenly tired. And what makes this grief confusing is that nothing is technically wrong. Your life might be good. You might be proud of how far you've come. You might even like the person you're becoming and still something feels off because you're not who you were, but you're also not fully settled into who you're becoming. It's that awkward in between when you're standing in your closet thinking, I have nothing to wear. But what you're really saying is I don't know which version of myself I'm dressing for anymore. Unfortunately, this grief just doesn't announce itself. It shows up as nostalgia for seasons you don't actually want back. It shows up when you miss parts of yourself that were holding it together, but just barely. It shows up when you realize that the coping mechanisms that once kept you safe don't work anymore. Outgrowing yourself doesn't just mean gaining new things, it means letting old things go. Old roles, old identities, old ways of surviving, and there's grief in that, even when growth is the right move. That's what we're talking about today. The kind of grief no one really warns you about. The quiet, confusing, tender kind that comes with becoming someone new. And I could not think of a better person to have this conversation with than my soul sister, life coach, and motivational speaker, Meg Ellis. Meg, welcome back to this show. I'm so happy you're here. Oh my God, I'm so happy and even hearing you just read that intro, my mind is just flooded with ideas and just. Wow. This is just gonna be an amazing episode. Thank you for choosing me to talk about this incredibly important topic. Yeah. Well, I think, it's funny because we talk a lot about growth and we make it seem very exciting and empowering in this like glow up, version. But what we don't talk about enough is growth that comes with the loss. Like you can be proud of how far you've come and still feel sadness for who you used to be. Yeah. Yeah, it's very complex and I think a great word that you used there was the word and, Right? We can feel excited about these new places that we're going and be sad that we've lost the places that we're nowhere to be found anymore. You know? Yeah. Yeah. Two things can be true at one time. Two things can be true at one time, and that's something that I often have to, one, remind myself. And then two, I, I use that in coaching a lot of just even stating the fact that very rarely do we feel one emotion at a time. Mm-hmm. You know, I can't remember the last time I just felt one emotion. Even if it's two positive emotions. I'm happy and overjoyed. I am enthusiastic and excited. You know, we feel multi, you know, we're multidimensional creatures. We feel multiple things. Mm-hmm. At once, and I think it's really great to bring awareness to that and normalize it. Yeah, that's exactly what we're creating this space for, to have this conversation of how do we normalize these topics, these things that we so often just try to keep in ourselves because we think that nobody else feels that way, or this isn't normal, or I don't want people to think I'm weird or weak or, fill in the blank. Right. Or I should feel this way because all the amazing things are happening in my life right now. Or I grew so much, I'm really proud of myself. Why don't I feel better? Yes, exactly. When have you personally felt the quiet grief of outgrowing the old version of yourself? This is such a powerful question because I think if you're constantly growing, it's something that you will feel more, more than once, you know? Um, I think. It really has in my life has shown up in friendships. You know, I value my friendships really greatly. Um, my relationships with other people really drives me, and I, you know, when you outgrow people, right? That's just something that naturally happens when you're growing yourself, right? Not everybody chooses to grow with you. Mm-hmm. And that is. Perfectly okay. Right? That is their choice. I think for a long time I was like, well, I'm doing this so you can do this. You should do this. My life's so much better. Your life would be better. And I think realizing, oh, like not everybody's ready to, to do that, or everyone's on their own timeline was one something that had to accept. And I think that. It really brought a lot of grief to my life because you have, and it's this weird kind of paradox because you have such fond memories of people. You know, there were people who were really there for me during hard times in my life, and you have so much gratitude for them. And with that, when you decide, you know what I am, I'm growing and you are not, and I'm outgrowing you. One, it can be. Scary. 'cause you feel alone and then you get filled with guilt too, because you're like, ah, you're like, you're not a bad person just because I am growing and you are not, but we're just not on the same wavelength right now. Mm-hmm. So I have like, you can't even like verbalize it, you know? You're just feeling like something's off and you don't know what it is, and you just know like, I just, you're not growing me anymore. You're not serving my highest good. You're not. You're not interested in growth, right? Mm-hmm. And that. You know, when you, when you leave a friendship just because you're outgrowing someone, of course there's gonna be tons of grief there. So I would say, I mean, that has happened multiple times in my life as I choose to continue to elevate and. And so I, I think I'm more kinda used to it now, but at first, at first I was like, I felt extremely guilty and really sad because it's like you didn't do anything wrong. Yeah. You know, to what you said before, you're, you didn't have this big falling out. You're not crying in the shower with mascara thinking about these terrible things. Somebody, you know, said to you during a falling out. It's just like, something's off. I feel like in any type of grief we always romanticize the the good parts, right? We romanticized the whole relationship of, oh, well maybe it wasn't as bad as I thought it was. Maybe all these things were really great. Oh, you know what, we always had a great time. They were always there for me. And then when you really stop and think about it, it's like, um, actually no. Were they, were they now? Exactly. Like I can have this friend who we had some really great times with. We loved each other. We, we were connected. But we're not growing on the same wavelength anymore. We're not connecting anymore. They were great for a season, not in this season of my life. Yeah. And, and appreciating seasons, I think helps with that. I think it's an interesting concept of, I think there's two things that we can do. One, definitely the romanticizing, right? When you lose something that wasn't necessarily your choice, or even if it was, but you lost a, a relationship in your life, it's very easy to hop into that. Oh, well they were so amazing and you know. Uh, you know, making them out to be this amazing person with no flaws, right? Mm-hmm. We can kind of like out human them. Yeah. And I think we do that because it makes us feel better, right? It helps us avoid some dealing with some negative feelings, you know? Mm-hmm. And in the same breath, we also do it on the other side, right? When, let's just say you are outgrowing somebody. And you don't necessarily, again, have that big falling out, big crying in the shower moment, but something's off. A lot of times we don't just take that for face value and say something's off. We're not aligned right now. And I'm going to move on from this friendship, at least for right now. Again, I'm gonna enter into another season. If you show up later, that's fine. We'll see. Right. Um. But we can't just like say those things, you know, we can't say this person was, um, just not for me anymore. And so we go in and we, we either romanticize the situation or we villainize the situation. We say, you know what? And, you know, um, they're not really for me, but, and then they did this one thing that one time and, and they did this. And, and, and now that I think about it, they're really not good for me, yada, yada, yada, you know? And we try and justify our own decision, and again, making ourselves feel better. To avoid that negative feeling. Now maybe that negative feeling is the guilt and the grief because you know, we're, we're deciding to move on and, and by villainizing someone it makes it easier to leave. But again, whether you romanticize it or you villainize it, it's still doing the same thing. You are trying to avoid that grief. Yeah. Well I think that's a good point 'cause I've never really thought of it like that, but, it's almost easier to have that reason of why we're no longer friends, right? It's like, oh, well, because they did this, this, this, this, and this. And then you say 'em out loud and you're like, okay, those are really trivial things. At the end of the day, it just wasn't there anymore. It just wasn't for me anymore. And it's okay to say that it's okay to, to not have this concrete explanation. Right, exactly. Just again, trusting yourself, trusting your intuition, trusting your body, you know, trusting just you and knowing that this is not for me anymore, regardless of how things went down or what has happened. If this is how you feel, knowing that you don't have to justify anything, that you're allowed to just feel things and trust them, and I think we're just such. You know, our brains are always in that problem solving mode, right? Mm-hmm. If you give me a problem, I will try my best to solve it and it's just like you, you can't out logic, grief. You can't. We can try and we think that's gonna make it feel better, but at the end of the day, you are going to carry that around with you until you deal with it not from your head, but from your heart. And that means you have to accept it. And that can be really hard to stomach. I think it's confusing too because it's not like somebody's showing up with sympathy cards or casseroles, right? It's just these things that maybe weren't healthy looking back, but they just. They're not there anymore. The friendships, the routines, the things that were, what you grasped onto, like they're not there anymore. And as moms, I feel like that gets a little more exaggerated because not only are you outgrowing this version of you, but you're also trying to raise children who are constantly changing. Mm-hmm. Oh yeah. Wild. And there's that underlying guilt of just not being grateful for a good life. Right? And it's not that you're ungrateful, it's that there's something more meaningful that's being shifted. Yes. And that's a hard and tricky place to to be in, and you can oftentimes get stuck in there because it's not like you are shedding anything that is no longer for you and immediately being handed what is for you. You know, it's like. Okay. If I have a handful of, I don't know, let's just say m and ms. If I have a handful of m and ms and they're all, you know, I, I don't, m and ms are just not for me anymore. I have to open my handout, dump the m and ms out, and then if I would like to receive Reese's PCs or whatever, then I have to hold my empty handouts to receive what I actually do want now, what is is for me. And I think that that empty hand moment, season, whatever it is, can be really scary, really daunting, and honestly, really lonely. I mean, that's really that in-between phase. Because it's, you're not m and MSS anymore, and you're not Reese's Pieces anymore, so what am I? Yeah, yeah, it's lonely, but also, I don't know, that's like where the magic happens, like where the integrating starts to happen of you are starting to learn new things about yourself, about the new version of you, right? Like these new boundaries, these new things that you're willing to accept and not so willing to accept. Right, exactly. And I, I think that's especially true for new moms and first time moms where you're now caring for somebody else. You know, where even just with, uh, you know, one kid, now it's two. Now it's three. Now they're getting older. Now they're hitting puberty. Now they're in high school now. Like, whatever. Like a big change is, right? Yeah. A big milestone, we'll call it. And it's like you're in totally new territory. And you cannot force old energy, whether it be your kids' old energy or your own old energy into a new situation. You have to let things go. Hmm. You know, sometimes you're like just flinging m and ms everywhere, and it's like, oh my God, both my hands are empty and their hands are empty too. It's like, it, it gets really messy, you know? And it feels. A little chaotic, and what I, I like to remind people is you are brand new, right? You're, you've never been here before. And I think we tend not to give ourselves a lot of grace and we don't like to sit still. And again, those negative like feelings of like, I don't know what this is, right? We're so black and white creatures. It's like this or that, that anything isn't this or that. It gets, I don't want, I don't know what that is. I don't wanna figure it out. I don't got time to figure it out. You know, we don't like to sit in there. But like you said, that's where the magic happens. If you force yourself and, and allow yourself to sit with that, sit with that quote unquote empty hand, you'll realize that it's actually not empty. It's. Open and it's like, what am I making myself available for, right. In this season of my life with a, you know, a, as a first time mom, as a mom who now has multiple children, as a mom whose kids are going to school, or middle school, or high school or college or whatever it is, it's like you've never been here before. So first of all, let's just give yourself a little grace. Yes. It's so funny you said that because the other night, we were having a whole conversation with Olivia, and that was literally the thing that I told her. I was like, we've never been parents at this stage before. We've never been parents to a 12-year-old and an 8-year-old. Like tomorrow, again, we've never been at that point before. Every single day is new because every single day you are getting older, you are changing. It's never the same. We're figuring it out as we go. If somebody has a handbook, by all means, like, let's see. Right? Yeah. And unfortunately there is no hand, like there's, there's no handbook and there's again, two sides of the same coin where it's, you know. The world, especially now, is just evolving and changing so much and there's so many dynamics at the same time. And even with technology and the way kids are doing school the way they're doing math is like, not what I learned. Oh. You know, it's like why are, let's not talk. Let's not get on that. I know. It's like I, and I don't like, I mean, I'm telling you like I'm on ant duty and I'm like, what are y'all learning? I have no idea what this is. What is this box? Yes. Why are all these lines like just add up the numbers, like whatcha doing? And it's just the craziest thing. And again, it's like. The things are changing so much, right? Not just the math, but everything. Even the way kids entertain themselves, their attention spans, right? The tech world. Like we didn't have that growing up. We did not. We had, here's your sibling and here's, you know, the front door. Yeah. Like, go outside, go play with sticks. You know, or something like that. But it was like, okay. And that's what we did. And so we can only pull from our own experiences, you know, really. But if I don't have any of those experiences, then I feel like I got nothing. Mm-hmm. And because this is new for not just you, you have to remember it's new for everybody. Mm-hmm. Everybody is literally just doing the best they can. So while there's no manual, there is TikTok and reels and Facebook, and it's like everyone is. Is again, pulling from their own experience and like, Hey, let me share this with you because this might help you, but I think we also have to realize it might not help you. Because this is not real. Like things that work for somebody might not work for you. So we have this influx of like constant information overload on literally everything, and it's like, okay. This might not apply for you, and that is okay. Taking the pieces that work for you. Right? I think the biggest advice I can give anybody in parenting or relationships at all is always just be curious. Mm-hmm. Because if I am curious about my kids and I am genuinely asking them questions about things that they like, things they don't like, things that help them, things that don't help them. Well, now we're able to, I, I have a better idea of who they are, you know? Right. And it, it constantly changes too. Right? Because Amelia's favorite color yesterday was purple. Today it's pink tomorrow it'll be black. It's all over the place. And I can't keep up because she's like, guess my favorite color. I don't know. Yeah, blue, like rainbow. I don't know. But it is, it's constantly changing and so you have to stay curious. You have to stay on your toes and stay curious, but if you genuinely have that curiosity, then I can keep up with at least knowing those things or, or trying to know those things. And I think that that's, you know, kind of a, an interesting point. It's an interesting point and also a cohesive point with the first part of the conversation, which I think it still applies to, is just embracing change. You know? Mm-hmm. Be curious, not even just with your kids' favorite colors changing, but with friendships in your life. Yeah. Or even jobs or hobbies. Or roles that you have for yourself, yourself. Self changes all the time. Who I was last night when I went to bed is not who I am in this moment. You know? Preach. And like allowing that. And I think if we could truly embrace change versus trying to resist it, but you know, ultimately, whether it's with your kids or with your friends, or your job or yourself or any aspect of your life, we are hardwired to resist change because our ego, the part of our mind that wants to protect us, resists change because it says, Hey, my job is to make you safe and by doing that the best way I know how to do that is to keep things the same because familiarity equals safety. So it's like, oh wait, you, you're gonna get rid of this friend, or you're gonna quit this job, or, you know, your kid's gonna go to to middle school Now it's like, oh my God. It's like alert, alert, change, change, change. And it's like, you know what? Uh, it's probably gonna be better if you just don't change, you know? And that's where we can come in and romanticize things and just, and resist change. And some things we do have the choice of, okay, well maybe I will just stay at this job that I hate, or maybe I will, um, keep up with these friends even though I know they're not serving my highest good. And we, it's easy to fall back in and resist that change. But some things we cannot resist. You can't change your, your kids from growing, right? They are going to change. They're going to go to middle school and then high school and then wherever after that, it's like. You at some point in time are going to have to learn how to embrace change. And be curious with all aspects of your life. Well, it's two things can be true at the same time. I can be very excited that my kid is graduating high school and going into this life of their own. I can also grieve that time that my kid isn't at home with me anymore. I no longer have my baby. It's maybe newer concept of allowing yourself to feel both things, because we feel like I have to pick one. Mm-hmm. No, you can feel both. It's gonna be uncomfortable and you have to be willing to sit in the uncomfortableness of it to just explore and work through what's going on there. Exactly. And I think the first step is, again, not being logical, like out reasoning and trying to justify and figure out your feelings, whether you're romanticizing or villainizing or just ignoring and avoiding being like, everything's fine. You know, it's, it's allowing yourself to feel and then from there be like, okay, I'm giving myself permission to feel things and it might be one thing, it might be two things. It might be three things. It might be 15 things, you know, and not, again, trying to make sense of it. Just feel it. And with the lens of curiosity, it's like, okay, what particularly about this makes me sad? Like, what am I sad about? You know what? That is really sad. My, my kid is growing up. They don't need me anymore. They're, they're going to their friends for advice and not me. That makes me sad, you know? And then. You know, 10 minutes later you could feel a totally different way about it. You know, like, actually, you know what, maybe now that they're driving, I have a life again. Right. Why do you think letting go of those roles and grieving the change feels scary even when it's something that no longer really fits for us? Mm-hmm. See, that's the thing is. Um, your ego, your mind will always choose familiarity over change. Even if what you are familiar with is, is misery blase, boring, terrible, whatever it is, you know, it will always pick that over this. Change. Even though the change can be really good, really exciting, and the best opportunity ever, that's, it's literally just the way we are hardwired until we question it, I think we can let that fear run away and again. Mm-hmm. A lot of times, whether it be, you know, your kid's not needing you anymore, or you weaving old friendships behind, or whatever it is. There's a period of isolation in there and loneliness and confusion. So if you take those three things and then add fear on top your mind will just start to take it. If I don't have anybody to bounce it off of, it's just going to spiral, you know? Yeah. Which is why I think journaling is really important here. 'cause it's like, at least get it if you don't have anyone to talk to right now. Again, no, it's just a season, but get it out of your mind, you know? Yes, yes. Write it down on paper. That alone helps a lot. Just kinda like unplugs everything. Yeah. My favorite thing to tell people is set a timer, five, 10 minutes, whatever. And just write, it doesn't have to make sense. It doesn't have to flow. It's not something anybody's gonna read. I mean, you could literally be writing like whatever it, it could be nonsensical. It doesn't have to be complete sentences, just get it out of your head because then I can think a little bit better. I don't have all this stuff swirling in my head. Yeah. I can make sense of things and, and sometimes I find when I'm journaling I will write something that I've actually never really thought, like I've thought about it clearly 'cause in my head, but I hadn't processed it, and I've never really considered it in that way that I wrote it. And so it's like, oh, that makes a lot of sense why I feel this way. You know? Yeah. Once again, tapping back into your like how you actually feel, you know? Yes, yes. How do you think that we can honor old versions of ourselves without going back to them? Gratitude, I think is the, the number one thing here because again, I can be grateful for something and also know it's not good for me anymore. Just because it's not good for me now. Right. Just because I, I am not into M and MSS right now, I can count, um, you know, a bunch of memories where I was really enjoying m and MSS watching a movie, you know, spice World with my mom in 1998 or whatever. You know, like, I can remember those moments and cherish them for what they were. And say, wow, that was really special. That really served a purpose and really gave me lights and a life and, you know, good feelings and good memories for that time. And, and for that, I am grateful. And I'm ready for the next candy right now. Right. I'm in a Reese's phase, so I think that's, that is how you can not romanticize or villainize. I think it's just when you go in with that gratitude, I think it's really the key. Yeah, I like that. What do you notice about the in-between phase when someone isn't who they were but doesn't feel rooted in who they're becoming? How do you walk them through that? Um, I think there's a lot of pressure that comes with that. I think people think. You know, okay, I am not this anymore, or I'm not in this phase anymore, and I'm in this new phase. And I think I have to have it all figured out on day one. You know, going back to the, Hey, you've, you've never been here before. You know? Like, yeah. Like you've literally never been here before. And it's like, okay, if I'm brand new here, just picture, you know, when your baby was a baby, baby, we're talking like two weeks. Two months. They can't really do much. Right. And anytime they do anything at all, you're like, oh my God, that's amazing. They just smiled or laughed or stuck their tongue out or whatever, you know? And like you get the biggest joys out of the smallest things because it's progress, right? It's just something new. Again, curiosity of like an exploration, like, oh my God, look what they can do now. That's so cool. And I think we have to treat ourselves like that. Where it's like, Hey, you've never been here before. You're a baby. You're not going to expect your baby to like dribble a basketball around the the family room. Right? But yet, and you would never yell at them if they couldn't do it. You know, you would be like, oh, it's okay. Like, you're just a baby. First of all, I probably won't even give you a basketball. But then if one was handed to you, it'd be like, oh no, they're, they're just a baby. They can't do that yet. You know, like, this is, this is the phase that they're in right now. This is what they could do, you know? Um, and I think we just have to treat ourselves with that same love, compassion, and grace. And again, curiosity. Yeah. What would you want women to understand about holding both gratitude and grief? I think I would want them to know that it's complex and stop trying to make sense of it. You know, grief hits you in waves and I would say you probably have less control over that and just to allow it to be, um, I think gratitude is something that you can actively apply. You know, you can't just all of a sudden choose like, oh, I'm gonna like, let grief take over. Right. It kind of is more something that hits you out of nowhere. Mm-hmm. And there's, there's phases of it, but I can actively choose, okay, I don't feel great about the situation, or I'm starting to villainize something or someone, or romanticized. It's like, okay, how can I apply gratitude for things that were, that no longer need to be, right? Mm-hmm. And that alone will just make you feel better. It will raise your vibration up to the point where you won't have to romanticize or villainize anything. And I think when you have that, you know, I, I wanna say balance, but it's, it's just kind of ebb and flow of grief and gratitude when you do get hit with a wave of grief, if you have that foundation of gratitude. It just allows you to experience it and process it and know that it's not gonna be forever, and it gives you something to come back to whenever that does pass through. I think that even that reframe of it is so much more empowering. To think of it that way of, you know, I, I, yes, I'm going to have these grief moments, right? There's like five stages of grief and yada, yada, yada. I'm gonna have that. It's gonna come and I don't know when it's gonna come, but I get to choose when I'm grateful, I get to choose the gratitude I bring into that moment or that situation. And that's, that's a big change. That's a big moment. Yeah, I, I think it's important to note too, that you want to allow yourself time to feel the grief, right? And don't be afraid of it. You know, again, it's not gonna last forever. Sometimes it lasts longer than we like or would feel comfortable with, but if just, okay, so I think as someone who didn't process grief for about nine years, and I carried it around with this like, happy face, it's like I thought because I was ignoring it, that it wasn't there. Mm-hmm. And what happens is if you don't actually process something out, just like anything else, what happens? It stays put. So I think it's important to say when you notice grief coming on, don't just be like, shut it down and go into gratitude. It's like, feel it. And process it out. And then when you know, you will feel this, um, when is the right time i'm ready to move on in this moment. Right? It could come back tomorrow or next week or whatever, but in this moment I'm ready to move on and that is where gratitude can, I can apply that gratitude and I will feel better. Yeah. Are there questions or reflections that you find especially helpful in those grieving this season type moments? I think any question that allows you to just be really honest with yourself because the more honest with yourself that you are, the more you'll get a grasp on it and be more comfortable with grief. Mm-hmm. Because we think we can trick ourselves and we just can't, you know, like you lying to yourself, girl. Mm-hmm. And it's like, stop lying to yourself because that is just adding onto that sandwich of, of complex feelings. It's like you're not lying to yourself. Right. I'm sad and, and I don't even think you can make sense of why you're sad sometimes, or why a particular memory or moment comes up or why it stays so long, or why it was fleeting. And I, I think really don't ask why. Just feel right. Again, don't make sense of your grief. Just feel it. So you know, any question that, any question that pops up, I think just be really honest with yourself. And you'll, that, that too will allow you to feel closer to yourself when I don't have anybody new yet, and although the old people are gone, I don't feel like I have anyone to be close to. So you have yourself. So like what is gonna help you be close to yourself, being honest with yourself, and accepting yourself for where I am in this phase. I feel like that's also a very good opportunity for you to get to know yourself. Yeah. I don't have this old set of friends and I don't have the new set of friends. Who do I have? I have myself and I, so now I have to get to know myself, and I also have to like myself because I'm gonna be spending a lot of time with myself. Yeah. Yeah. And I think this is another tricky part. I'm glad you brought this up, because it's easy to be like, oh, like I'm leaving this behind. I'm no longer in this phase. And then you sit there with your little empty hand, and instead of seeing it as open, you see it as empty. And it's like, oh my God, it's been like this for too long. Let me just, I'm not gonna go back to the old friends, or mm-hmm. Old situation or whatever it is. Like, let me just settle for something new. And you end up in the same loop, right? Yes. You're ending up in the same situation that you were before, and it's like, no, that happens because you are just uncomfortable sitting with yourself. And I think getting to know yourself is really, uh, scary, daunting. It can feel very hard because. You know, I will. I'm the first to admit we have no bad parts, and I'll also be the first to admit that I don't like acknowledging the fact that I have, you know, think I have bad parts or, mm-hmm. I don't like acknowledging the shadow aspects of myself or my negative parts of myself, quote unquote, uh, or my mistakes or my areas of growth. I don't like thinking about those, you know? 'cause then I gotta think about all the mistakes that I made that led me here. And there comes the, the guilts again, and the shame or the anger for myself. And so. If you start to open that door and you're not used to it, it's like, oh, no, no, no, no, but just, let's close this door. Let's lock it. I'm gonna move on to the next first person I see on the sidewalk who will be my friend. You know, it's like you have to sit with the discomfort knowing that again, it's a season, not a sentence. Right? It's temporary. So you talking about opening that door and things coming out right? My vision is like Pandora's box. Yes. And I always tell people, do you know what is at the bottom of Pandora's Box? I don't. It's hope. I love that. Wow. That's so appropriate for just where we are in the world. Hope, uh, wow. That is. I never knew that. I, I love that hope. And so when you get to that hope. That is, I mean, hope is one of the highest vibe feelings on the chart. Right. You know? So you're telling me if I dig through all the stuff, like all the bats flying out the closet, I'm trying to stuff this skeletons falling out. Yeah. Like all kinds of stuff. It's like, oh my God, I didn't, I thought I forgot about that. Hope nobody sees that. Exactly. Like, oh my God, that's not mine. How'd that good in here? Yeah, right. Oh, that must have been somebody else's. I don't know. That's weird. I'm holding that for a friend. Yeah, exactly. It's like, oh, that, that's my mind. I don't know. It wasn't me. Right. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know how they got here. Um, yeah, it's like once you get through that, it's again, get to know yourself and the more you accept the not so glamorous parts of yourself, then the more you'll be open to accepting that in other people, you know, not to say you're settling for, um, you know, not mutually beneficial friendships or one-sided friendships or being treated poorly by anybody. You know, your family, your kids, your friends, your work, whatever. I'm not saying you're doing that because you're accepting lesser treatment. I'm saying that because you'll be able to have more compassion for people and to see even, you know, in this new phase that you're in, even the most high vibe situations and, and you know, people that you meet in those situations, they're still human, you know? Mm-hmm. And I think that can be a, a standard that we set for ourselves as we, as we open this door and we don't like what we see, and we're like, okay, I'm gonna fix all this. I'm gonna, I'm gonna fix all this, right? My, my mind is, again, I'm always in fix it mode. So I'm gonna fix this and I'm gonna try and out human myself by, you know, we, we can mask growth like, or we mask perfectionism in growth. So, oh, you are, I know I'm speaking to my favorite enneagram one. speaking my love language, right? I'm a stressed one, so how do you think I feel? I'm Mangram seven Stress one. Whew. Uh, I've, I'm so sorry. I'm like, you feel like this all the time? Oh, I can't do this. I cannot do this. This is life. Yeah. Oh girl. I'm like, get me outta here. I'm trapped my own closet now. How do you think women can trust the process, even when it feels messy or scary? Well, I'll probably trust the process more if I trust myself more. Mm-hmm. So I think the question really comes down to how can you trust yourself more? And then I think if we wanna dive deeper, it's like when do you even need trust? If I had all of the answers in life, I would need no trust. So again, that's embracing change and embracing the fact that you don't have the answers. I do not have all the answers, and I never will, but what I do have is trust in myself always. You can always have that if you work on it, so

it's a lot easier to trust the process if you really know the person who's going through the process and you trust that person.

Yeah. Yeah. I've never said that before, but that's really good. That is very good. That's very profound. That needs to be on a fortune cookie. I know. I'm like, man, that's, that's pretty good. I'm gonna put that on tshirt. Write that down. Exactly. I'm writing that down. Yeah. How boring would life be if you had all the answers? Mm-hmm. I can't even imagine a world where you had all of the answers, you know? That's, that's so out of alignment with being a human. Yeah. It takes away from your, your basic human right of free will. Mm-hmm. Right. 'cause I wouldn't have to think about that at all and worry about that at all. And it's like a life on autopilot, which is what I escaped from. So I'm not trying to go back there, you know? Yeah, exactly. Like I don't wanna go back to that, you know? It's just, again, embracing that change and uncertainty and the not familiar in this in-between phase of can I sit with myself and like, why am I being so hard on myself that my kids are not relying on me anymore? What does that tell me about me? Mm-hmm. Oh, I get a lot of self-worth from helping other people. Okay. Well, can you, could, you could shift that somewhere else, right? In a healthy way, right? On your terms, like go volunteer or something like that, or whatever. But also has that, has it been on my terms, right? Mm-hmm. Or has, have I been, has that been something that has, I've been strapped to. Mm-hmm. And now that I no longer am again, free will comes in. What do I want to do with this time? I, I've never known, I've never had an option to not be help helping in this way. Mm-hmm. And now I do, I could feel like it's, it's lacking and that I am therefore lacking 'cause it's not here. And I could sit in that, um, you know, obviously process that grief, but don't sit in it. Right. Right. And then I can say, okay, well what can I do with this? What can I do? I, I like contributing. I like helping people. What does this look like on my terms, you know? And now I can go help other people in this way, this way, and this way. And I can say no whenever I want to, because again, I have that free will to do that. Yeah. And that comes back to the whole knowing yourself and sitting with yourself because if that aspect of my life is taken away and now I have to figure out who I am and what I like and what I don't like, and what I'm a yes for, what I'm a no for. How do I know those things if I don't know me? Mm-hmm. Right? Who am I without this, you know? Yes. That was actually my last podcast. Who am I without the roles? Oh, you know what? I think I did see that on, on, uh, Instagram. I'm gonna have to catch that one because that is a, that's a very powerful one. I'm sure there's tons of good gems in there, and I will be diving into that later this afternoon. So, yeah, it's like, who, who are you? Right? When you, when you, either you get rid of a role or get a new role, right? Whatever that is, it's like, who am I? And, and I think the question is like, well, have you ever thought about who you wanna be? Yeah. Yeah. Or even do I even need to be a role to be who I truly am, right? Mm-hmm. Like, am I, Angela, the mom, the, you know, wife, the podcaster, the nurse practitioner, like, am I these things or am I, Angela, the kind and compassionate and caring and, and these, you know, these things that make up me. Mm-hmm. So it's very interesting. That is, and, and I'm not. You know, this is not really a, like a mom role. I've, I've never been a mom. Um. But I'm, I am kind of in that, you just reminded me of, I'm in this phase right now, right? Because I'm a very social person. I have a very packed social calendar. I am a fitness instructor and I have always met my friends through either fitness or some type of like coaching and leadership role. And, and then that is like literally how I've like formed all my friendships and. Now it's like I live in New York City now. I moved here a couple months ago. I don't have any friends. I have very few friends here. I wouldn't say I have none, but. None of real depth, you know? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And I'm not teaching fitness. It's like, okay, Meg, the stellar friend, role taken away, Meg, the fitness instructor taking away, and I'm just going to classes as like a student and I don't have much going on. And there's a little bit of this identity crisis 'cause it's like. No more m and Ms. Reese PCs, like mm-hmm. Not here yet. And it's like, what am I going to do? And I, and I even realized the other day, I'm like, man, just because I'm not the instructor, like I am, I'm going into these classes and I'm going in saying hi to the instructor and then leaving. And I'm like, that's not like me. You know, I have this, this open hand here. It's like, is that really what I want to do? Yeah. With the situation, you know, even though. Like, just because, I mean, the instructor, like, that's not the only reason why I should talk to people. You know, it's a little, it's again, and I found myself very isolated. And so today, actually earlier I went to this class and I'm like, I'm gonna talk to people, you know, and I talked to the front desk girls and actually had a, a friend who I knew in the class talked to her, and then the girl behind me was such a vibe in the class and I was like, you know what? I wanna tell her that. So you are such a vibe, you know? And she's like, oh my god, her face lit up. And I'm like, this feels good for me. Right? Yeah. This is what I would do if I were the instructor, but I am not the instructor anymore. I can still take aspects of that and apply it here, and that makes me feel good, you know? Yeah. And that was just something, again, it's exploration with yourself and curiosity. It's like, why am I gonna, these classes and not feeling, you know, all filled up and energized afterwards, it's like, oh, probably. 'cause I'm being like this huge, like, you know, like RBF, you know, like walking in, like did my workout and weave. I'm like, that's not me. Right? It's like, and again, maybe I. Say to this girl, like, oh my God, you're such a vibe. And I feel weird about that where I'm like, oh wait, maybe I don't know. That actually didn't feel authentic to me. Then I know, okay, you know what? Don't do that next time. You know, or whatever. Again, it's just exploration. It's like, what is the definition of exploration? You have no idea where you're going. Exactly. You're just trying to find out. Well, and it's, you know, it's like, okay, if you look at all your roles, right? Meg, the instructor, Meg, the life coach, Meg, the speaker, you know, Meg, the friend, all these things, and it's like, well, what is the center? That each one of those things has in common, right? Like, you're outgoing, you are friendly, you are, you know, you want people to feel good. Like, so then if you take all those roles away, now I'm just the student, but I still am Meg, the friendly person, Meg, the, you know, the person who wants to make people feel good. Like I'm still that person. Mm-hmm. I just don't have the titles attached to it. Right. And that could only be determined when you sit there with an open hand and you're like, let me, let me see who this girl is. Mm-hmm. Let me, I don't have the new yet. I don't got the old, but let me just see who I really am. And when, you know, you know, if you think about what makes you trust other people, it's like when I get to know them and I know they know what they're talking about or where they're, what they're doing, I. You know, or they've proven they've done something. I'm like, okay, I trust you now. It's like, okay. The same mentality is with yourself. Yes. You know, trust yourself and then, then you prove to yourself like, oh, I do trust myself. Oh, so that decision to let this go, you know, it's no longer for me. That can help with the, the grief too, because I think gratitude helps, but also trust, like yes, I know that was sad, but I, I do trust myself that I made the right decision. Yes, yes. That's, oh, okay. I think that's a, a good. A place to a mic to end it. Exactly. Exactly. We're putting that on a t-shirt as well. Yes, exactly. The front and the back. You see, we said before, so. Well, thank you so much for holding this conversation with so much honesty and compassion and, and heart. This is one of those topics that doesn't rush women into fixing things. It simply gives them permission to pause and breathe. These are the kind of conversations that change how women relate to themselves. Not because they give answers, but because they make space. Space to feel what's real, space to name, what's been quietly shifting. And I am so grateful to be creating this space with you and for you being a part of it. Oh my God, thank you. It's such an honor to be in this space with you and, um, to be doing this on your show and talking to all the mamas out there. Yes. Mama, if this episode met you right where you are, let it. You don't need to rush forward. You don't need to go backward, and you don't need to have it all figured out. Sometimes becoming isn't about adding more or doing more. Sometimes it includes saying a soft, grateful goodbye to who you once had to be and trusting that she brought you exactly this far. Sometimes the bravest thing is letting go. I'll see you next week, mama. Come back next week. Bring your coffee, your chaos, and your whole self because on this show, we're not here to have it all figured out. We're here to get real, get honest, and grow through it together. Talk to you soon, mama.