00:00:06 Yusuf: What if the thing holding so many driven, successful men is not disciplined ambition or intelligence, but something far quieter, something we were never taught to name, let alone practice. Emotional intelligence. And it is not about becoming softer. It is about becoming more whole.

00:00:32 Yusuf: Welcome to the Wellness Reimagined, where we questioned all assumptions and explore more integrated human ways of living and leading. I'm your host, Yusuf. And today I'm joined by Stefanos, a coach and mindfulness practitioner who works with high achieving men who look successful on the outside but feels something missing on the inside. Today we are talking about the what, the why and the how two of men's emotional intelligence and how developing EQ can shift not just performance, but contentment, relationships and inner peace. With that, I welcome my guest Stefanos to the show.

00:01:24 Stefanos Koutsoumpis: Hi Yusuf. It's an honor and pleasure being with you today.

00:01:28 Yusuf: Perfect, Stefanos. when you look back at your younger self leaving home at eighteen and facing life without much emotional preparation. What do you wish someone had told you about emotions back then?

00:01:47 Stefanos Koutsoumpis: Great question. You know, most of the years I think that I was living in a limbo, like a dream. I had no clue what was going on. So it will be nice for, for someone to to tell me that there is this thing inside of me that I can use, and it will help me to tap in into the world and enjoy more of it.

00:02:11 Yusuf: Okay, so for you, emotions was a way to feel more of the world.

00:02:18 Stefanos Koutsoumpis: A way to feel more and a way to understand more. You know, there is this urban legends, and we see them in the movies that we are using only ten percent or twenty percent or thirty percent or whatever of our brain. And okay, we know that this is not true scientifically. But then again, we're not using all of our intelligence. And part of intelligence is being good at math and logic and speaking up. But then again, there are other parts of intelligence. And one of these is being smart with your emotions and with other people's emotions. To be able to understand what's going on with you and with others, and be able to communicate more effectively and relate with people more and work better with others.

00:03:13 Yusuf: I there's this question in my mind that we can measure IQ at a very general level. We can do some test and we can measure how our IQ is. What about IQ?

00:03:28 Stefanos Koutsoumpis: Well, we can measure it. You know, there are tests for measuring your emotional quotient or how whatever this is spelled like. And you know, there are multiple aspects to to EQ and there are the aspects about how well you can understand yourself, how well you can motivate yourself, and then again, how socially intelligent you are, how well you can understand other people and their motives and what they are doing and why they are doing it. And then again, how well you can uh, uh, relate to other people and make collaborations and make friends and relate to other people. And, you know, I'm using this example with IQ versus EQ. Uh, you know, back in school we had the good students who okay, we can all agree that they had high IQ. They were good at math, good at, uh, you know, literature. They were smart children, but they were not the, uh, The guys with the most friends. And if you go to the back of the room, there were some troublemakers maybe, and they had the most friends. They could gather a crowd. They could get a crowd to do whatever they wanted, maybe start a riot or something. You know, we were children. So there is some kind of intelligence in those troublemakers. It's not math, it's not literature. But there is something. They are good with people. This is an early sign of a guy with a high IQ. You know, someone who can make collaboration, who can make alliances.

00:05:17 Yusuf: And there's this belief that emotional intelligence is either soft or optional for men. From your experience, what do you think people misunderstand about men's IQ?

00:05:34 Stefanos Koutsoumpis: You know, we misunderstand being soft and crying and, you know, being very empathetic and sympathetic to other people, uh, with, you know, being a street smart with being a ready to analyze the situation, with being able to set boundaries. All of these things are about having high IQ. So if I can understand the motives and the reasons someone asks the way they do this doesn't mean necessarily that, uh, we are gonna be super soft on them, um, or someone who is able to to feel joy or feel sorrow. It doesn't mean that they won't be able to make logical decisions. They will. They will have both tools actually in their tool set, both their logic and their gut feelings, their emotions. Um.

00:06:34 Yusuf: So it's not that men lack emotions, it is that many of us, or many of the men, were never given permission or or or language to engage with them in a healthy way.

00:06:50 Stefanos Koutsoumpis: Exactly, exactly. Language I love this. And you know, another example I'm using sometimes to to explain this is, you know, if we try to speak about colors, for example, there are many different shades of, of red. And if you go to, to your girlfriend or to your wife, maybe they can tell you five or six or ten different shades of red. But, you know, to to my eyes they're all red. I don't have the vocabulary for that. If I was trained with the vocabulary, then I would be able to start understanding the colors. And same with emotions. You know someone is coming up to you and they are asking Yusuf, how are you doing today? And you're like. Either good or bad. Okay, this is good that you're starting somewhere. But. What about the shades of emotions? Are you happy? Are you ecstatic? Are you. You know, grounded or. Or sad or depressed? We want to have the the vocabulary to understand the shades of emotions so we can have a full palette of emotions that we are feeling.

00:08:07 Yusuf: Mhm. Wow. I love that example. Stefanos, you have spoken about growing up with strong values that later became obstacles. I want to know how how do upbringing, culture or expectations subtly condition meant to disconnect from emotional awareness.

00:08:33 Stefanos Koutsoumpis: Mhm. I love this question. You know, we are from different backgrounds, different cultures. So we do have different, different values in our lives. And you know, when we are going up, this is our programming. This is how we learn to to face the the world. And this is where we are staying. This is what we are taught. So it's, you know, in my in my experience, I'm Grace. It's a more or less Western country. And there are those values, you know, of growing up, of being a good person, of being a person who gives to other people. And this has to do with religion as well. And this ended up with me not having strong boundaries, for example, not being able to recognize when other people are overstepping their boundaries. And when I still, you know, set my expectations and set some expectations for them as well, or even to myself, learn to to restrict myself from maybe doing too much or giving too much, or spending my time on too many things. This also has to do with boundaries, and there are a million of other different cultural things that we are learning. And and you know, emotion is a flag that can help us because every time that something is not working, you know, we have we have the gut feeling there is something going on inside of us that is telling us that it is wrong. But, you know, we learn to not hear this voice. Just go with the flow. Just do what we know. No, we need to know. Snap out of it and listen to that. and be inquisitive. Okay. Why am I feeling this way? Maybe I should rethink what I'm doing now.

00:10:45 Yusuf: Okay. And what patterns do you see repeating in men who are highly driven but chronically dissatisfied?

00:10:59 Stefanos Koutsoumpis: Yeah. You know, there there are some biases. Uh, there, uh, one of them, uh, you know, you know, there's this study about the marshmallow effect and delayed gratification. And we are hearing a lot about, you know, you have to delay gratification now so you can experience a better future. Yeah. Um, we start in school when we are in preschool, and they say, okay, you need to be a good student because later you it would be easier for you. And then you go to high school and it's like, okay, you need to be a good student so you can get to a university, and then you will rest. And this goes on again and again, and then you get a job and the people are telling you, okay, you need to work hard now so you can rest later. So we're always delaying gratification until later on. This later never comes until, you know, you're actually two too old and you realize that you missed so many years not enjoying the moment. And you know, we need to do both. We need to plan for the future, but we need to learn to experience every day. You will only be a child once, or you will only be twenty once. And it's a good thing to enjoy some of the things you can do only at that age when it's the right time.

00:12:27 Yusuf: Mhm. Yeah. You know particularly right now in this culture we are glorifying delayed gratification, which is kind of good as well in a lot ways. But yeah, the perspective that you have given right now has taught me new perspective and a new narrative as well to my personal opinion and thinking. Thank you so much for that.

00:12:57 Stefanos Koutsoumpis: You're welcome. Oh.

00:13:01 Yusuf: But but when men have underdeveloped emotional intelligence, how does that typically show up day to day life?

00:13:13 Stefanos Koutsoumpis: Mm. You know, having spoken to many people, for me, it's I can see it in people's faces from for for starters. I mean, people who have not learned to experience emotions, they haven't learned to express them. And you can see it in their faces. They have always a poker face on. And this is not just looks, it's also feelings because those two are interconnected. And on the contrary, if you see someone who have been practicing the theater or acting and they were practicing emotions, they can also show it in their voice and in their faces. So this is how you can actually see people who have not developed their emotions. You can see it by how they are expressing or actually not expressing themselves non-verbally. Because this is all non-verbal, how your your face twitches or how your body is shaped. And then you can see it in how they are living life. Um, they're, you know, uh, many times people who don't know how to process their emotions, uh, they have addictions and, you know, It's unfortunate, but I have a lot of friends with addictions and they can be in alcohol, in drinking and smoking, in porn, in in junk food and whatever. And it's the first way that people are trying to cope with hard emotions. It's addictions. So this is a a heavy sign for someone who needs to to learn more things about himself.

00:15:02 Yusuf: Um, you know, the idea of looking fine from outside but feeling pressurized inside. It's something so many listeners will recognize immediately.

00:15:16 Stefanos Koutsoumpis: You know, we were taught to be like this. We were taught to be stoic. And so no emotions have always this poker face on. And if you go to to public culture, to movies and TV series, you know, there's always this macho male character who knows he has all the money, all the girls, and no emotions on his face, so no one knows what they think. And you know, it's funny, it's good for a movie, but it's not real. This person isn't real. Yeah.

00:15:54 Yusuf: You find your turning point through mindfulness and positive psychology. If a man listening right now and they feel skeptical, but yet curious at the same time, where does EQ practice actually begin?

00:16:15 Stefanos Koutsoumpis: Hmm. No, it begins from learning about this, and there are many nice resources. A lot of books about emotional intelligence. So you can start learning about what is this thing. And then you take notice of that. And then you're going to practice it because you know every skill, we want to develop it. It takes some practice. Yeah. For me mindfulness was a very nice way to practice self-insight, actually, and it gave me a lot. And it still gives me, gives me a lot because I can still notice and the and see the difference between different shades of emotions and be inquisitive about that and look exactly what is going on there and tap into my feelings. And, you know, after all, when you can understand what is going on inside of you, you take more educated decisions for your life. You have better tools to do better in your life.

00:17:33 Yusuf: Yeah. Are there any simple, grounded practices that people who are listening can start with?

00:17:42 Stefanos Koutsoumpis: Um, you know, there is a the the rule of three. Three times three. And, uh, the the practice is about, uh, you know, starting by noticing three parts of your body. For example, you start by noticing maybe your hands for a couple of seconds and then maybe your toes for a couple of seconds, maybe then your back or or whatever, you feel better. So this is the first three and then the next three are you notice three things in your room in your immediate environment. So you know I'm in my PC. So I'm noticing my mouse, my mouse for a couple of seconds And then my mic for a couple of seconds. And then, you know, I have a small toy and I'm watching this also. This is the next three. And then I'm going again inside. And I'm noticing three things that I'm grateful for in my life. So, you know, I can think of what I had for breakfast, the people I met at work today and, you know, and spending some time with you today. So three times three. And, you know, I'm already feeling a bit more grounded by doing that.

00:19:12 Yusuf: You know. But the thing that I liked most is that how you frame EQ not as fixing something that is broken, but as building an inner relationship that was never modeled or never taught us. It's just like learning a new skill again.

00:19:31 Stefanos Koutsoumpis: Exactly, exactly. It's a skill that we never had. No one told us about it. And, you know, some people, uh, maybe biologically, or maybe they were taught from someone else in an early age. But most of us, we didn't. And we have to start from somewhere. We are under development in that area and it will take some time. But, you know, working again and again and it pays off greatly. So it's totally worth learning more about that. Yeah.

00:20:06 Yusuf: Stefanos, for listeners who resonated with this conversation and want to connect with you or explore your work, where can they find you?

00:20:16 Stefanos Koutsoumpis: They can find me on my website. I have a a guide, a free guide for men with five different tools they can use and it will help them feel happier today. You know There are five tools designed to to make you feel happier today, and it's also an invitation for the ladies listening to our episode to maybe introduce that tool to their friends and help them develop in their lives.

00:20:49 Yusuf: Perfect. And to everyone listening, all these links are in the show notes, so just go and check those out. Stefanos, is there any last message that you want to leave us with?

00:21:04 Stefanos Koutsoumpis: Yeah. You know, I want to leave you with a wish to to have values in your life that will actually help you be happier. You know, happiness is the ultimate currency. This is how we measure ourselves. And this is why you are doing things to be happy after all. So let's have this as a value as well.

00:21:27 Yusuf: Thank you so much for spending this time with us on the Wellness Imagined.

00:21:33 Stefanos Koutsoumpis: It was very nice being with you. Yusuf. I enjoyed the conversation a lot.

00:21:38 Yusuf: Me too sir. And to everyone listening. If today's conversation stirs something, don't rush to fix it. Just notice it. That awareness alone is part of EQ, and men's emotional intelligence is not about becoming someone else. It is about reconnecting with the part of ourselves that makes success feel meaningful, not just impressive. Until next time, take care of your inner world as intentionally as you manage your outer one.