Katie Flamman 00:00:00:

Hello and welcome to Storytelling For Business, the podcast that helps you build better relationships with your customers by telling stories they want to hear. I'm Katie Flamman. I'm a voiceover artist specialising in corporate storytelling. I've recorded adverts for clients like Google Chromebook, Lyca mobile Longleat, Safari park, and the British Heart foundation, helping each one to get their message across. But this phrase, business storytelling, isn't it just another way of saying a commercial? Can storytelling really create leads and reinforce relationships? Or is it just another marketing fad that won't last? This podcast series is investigating and I'll share all the answers with you. In today's episode, I'm talking to an expert business storyteller. Let's go.

Melanie Perry is a creative chameleon. After 25 years in corporate working for giants like Virgin and Disney, Melanie decided she wanted a bit of hands-on creative action. She produced a charity ice show, and after that, there was no stopping her. In the past five years, she's won multiple awards for being both a sports radio anchor and a comedy short film producer. She runs two companies. Creatives is a networking group she co founded where creative professionals make connections, learn from each other, and collaborate. And Poppy Perry Media helps small businesses with explainer videos and commercial films. I think it's safe to say Melanie knows quite a bit about storytelling for business and I am delighted she's here.

Melanie, welcome to the podcast.

Melanie Perry 00:01:39:

Thank you, Katie. I'm delighted to be here. It's always a pleasure to talk to you.

Katie Flamman 00:01:43:

It's quite the resume. But that thread of creativity runs through everything, doesn't it?

Melanie Perry 00:01:49:

It does. I've always been a fan of storytelling. As a child, I always had my head in a book or I was sat in front of the tv. I loved watching the cartoons on television. And as I got older, this is going to sound really geeky, and I am a bit of a geek on 80s and 90s advertising. I loved that period, and I was just as happy watching the adverts as I was watching the main feature. And that's something that I feel has died a little bit now. And I know that they had massive budgets back in the day.

They really did. It was just silly money to make these things, but I wish we could get a little bit of that back. I see a lot of bland around and if I had my way and could wave a magic wand, I would obliterate the bland.

Katie Flamman 00:02:23:

Do you think that? I mean, there's the long awaited kind of John Lewis Christmas ad and that kind of thing, but in advertising, you're right, there is quite a lot of bland, or there's quite a lot of low budget. Maybe is it to do with imagination? Are people just not being imaginative enough, do you think?

Melanie Perry 00:02:53:

I think it's a few things. I think there's so much more noise around us. Now, back in the day, when I was sitting in front of the telly and watching the lovely Christmas Yellow Pages advert with a little boy who stood on the Yellow Pages and kissed the girl, which was just incredibly cute, we only had, what, four or five channels at that point. There was no Internet.

Katie Flamman 00:03:16:

And only three of them were showing ads.

Melanie Perry 00:03:20:

Yeah, exactly. So I think there's a lot more noise to cut through. So there might be some incredibly good stuff out there. But are you seeing it because there's just so much everywhere. The Internet has made everything so accessible. Lots and lots of creators are coming out and there's just so much stuff. But I think that also, again, back in the day, a lot of huge film directors, quite a few of them didn't go to film school because it wasn't there then. They just had their creative genius and their ability, which is something that I have found out is my superpower, putting the right people together to create something absolutely stunning.

And with the birth of media centres and schools for this, in the vertices for that, you're taught in a formulaic way, and I think that can stifle creativity a little bit. Because when you're taught a certain way, there's something in you that doesn't want to break the rules, unless you are one of those type of people who is what I call a true creative, who'll just say, yeah, okay, I've learned it, but I don't actually agree with half of that stuff, so I'm going to just go and do it my own way. But learning in a certain way that, oh, I have to do it this way because that's the way people want it. And I think we miss out on quite a lot of stuff. If people could just let their imaginations rip a little bit, break a few of the rules and come up with something that is genius,.

Katie Flamman 00:04:46:

I think that's really interesting. I mean, kind of what you touched on with all the noise out there. Everyone's a creative, aren't they? Everyone's a creator. Everyone's a content producer in the loosest sense of the word. TikTok is just an unbelievable phenomenon. And I'm seeing more and more TikTok videos on other platforms because you make it for TikTok and it gets a squillion views and then you export it. And TikTok stuff's on LinkedIn, which traditionally is the most straight laced of them all. But do you think those people are kind of disruptors, the influencers who are able to say, I'm just doing it my way, I've got no training, I'm just going for it.

Katie Flamman 00:05:27:

Do you think they're the successful ones, the ones who haven't been taught the formula?

Melanie Perry 00:05:31:

Some are. Some have been taught the formula and just are going to break the rules anyway. I think there's a famous quote by Picasso who says, learn the rules like a pro so you can break them like an artist.

Katie Flamman 00:05:43:

Love that.

Melanie Perry 00:05:44:

I love that. And I'm thinking, yeah. Yes, okay. You do have to learn a certain format. But the thing about creativity is very subjective. I could put out something that you, Katie, might. Oh, wow, that's amazing. Somebody else, that's the biggest load of tripe I've ever seen. Same with art and paintings. People have their favourite genres, abstract or the old masters or sculpture or whatever. And that's the beauty of creativity. Creativity is just problem solving, really. In a nutshell. That's what you're doing. You have a thing and you want to get your thing out there.

How are you going to do that? What's the best way to resonate with your audience and in marketing? Yes. The best way to do that is to know your audience, but to also know yourself really well and speak in your voice and attract the people that you want to do business with. Small business owners, I find a lot. We're so desperate for the business that you attract in anyone and everyone. You don't want to do business with anyone and everyone, not really. We've all had those energy vampires that just suck the soul out of us and just think, oh, why did I even get involved in this? You don't want that. Being true to yourself helps cut the wheat from the chaff.

Katie Flamman 00:07:00:

So I agree with you. I think businesses should be working with people who are a good fit for them and ideally their audience, their maybe ideal clients are also going to be a good fit for them. And then everything is gelling. But what you said about being creative, being a bit different, it's subjective. It's not going to appeal to everyone. Do you think that in the messaging that people are putting out in their corporate storytelling or their business films or advertising material or their brand, do you think that it's necessary to have a message that is going to appeal to the people that you want to be appealing to and to hell with anybody else who doesn't like it because they're not your target audience anyway. Is that kind of where it comes from?

Melanie Perry 00:07:48:

I think so. I mean, take, for example, Virgin's advertising. Virgin have done some brilliant adverts. Some of them are quite near the knuckle, especially when they've been knocking BA and things like that. But they have built a huge tribe of people that follow virgin because they have a nonsense, fun, cheeky way of doing things that is completely Branson. And yes, there are a lot of people who don't like Richard Branson, but does he care? The amount of money that he's made from his virgin brand, I don't think he's sitting in a hole crying about the two or 300 people or thousand people that think he's a complete idiot. He knows he's not. Most of the world knows he's not.

And he's got a huge tribe. I used to work for virgin. I loved working for the company. It had a great culture, great business cards. Again, you meet someone from virgin, they got those fantastic business cards because they are very creative and they're very different from the normal, bland, oh, what are they like? They will have really quirky things on them about what the person's favourite breakfast is or whatever, rather than being, oh, I do this for my company. It's like, hi, I'm Melanie and I love eggs.

Katie Flamman 00:08:54:

Oh, what are they like?

Melanie Perry 00:08:54:

They will have really quirky things on them about what the person's favourite breakfast is or whatever, rather than being, oh, I do this for my company. It's like, hi, I'm Melanie and I love eggs.

Katie Flamman 00:08:54:

I'm thinking about the toilets in Virgin trains that talk to you. It's completely quirky with what I do for a living. That's quite a famous example of a mad voiceover job.

Melanie Perry 00:09:07:

Yeah, you could be the Virgin toilet, but it's that kind of thing and it gets you remembered. Now, in business, and creativity is very subjective, but in business, you are never going to appeal to, ever. And you're talking about people wanting to hang on for the John Lewis Christmas ads. And there have been some really stunning John Lewis Christmas ads. Me personally, the past couple of years, I've watched them and thought, you can do better than that. I haven't particularly got on board with it and feedback.

Katie Flamman 00:09:39:

Is that anti climax, do you think?

Melanie Perry 00:09:42:

I don't know. Again, maybe they peaked too soon. I don't know, but I think they need to kind of go back to basics a little bit and just really look at what worked, because there's something that's missing a little bit from their ads now. I think when brands get too big and they think, oh, we can put out anything and anybody will love it because we are who we are. No, don't

Katie Flamman 00:10:03:

Complacency is problematic, isn't it?

Melanie Perry 00:10:05:

Yeah. And you don't want that. You need to keep pushing the envelope and coming up with something really new and fantastic year on year.

Katie Flamman 00:10:12:

One of the things that I loved about those old classic ads was the stories that ran across almost like a soap opera, kind of across weeks and weeks. And if you're trying to literally put all your eggs in one Christmassy basket, that is quite hard to do. But I think. Well, do you think there's an argument for businesses, not necessarily big brands advertising on telly, but businesses to kind of create an appointment to view almost with their business marketing so that people want to tune in and find out the next chapter?

Melanie Perry 00:10:47:

Yeah, it's all about relationship marketing, isn't it? We have a relationship with brand. And one of the most famous examples of the ads that you were talking about was the Gold Blend advert, if you remember that, that went on for. It was almost a soap opera in its own right. They had the next episode of the advert being advertised on bus stops and billboards and people were just desperate for the next will they, won't they scenario. And I think the last advert that showed the amount of views that that had was just off the charts. It was ridiculous. And now with these, again, you've got 30 seconds, whatever, to create a really memorable ad. And with John Lewis, sometimes they've done it really, really well because they've created a really gorgeous character that everyone's like, oh, that's just so lovely.

And it's getting that emotional pull in. You really need that emotional pull in. You don't want to be watching a John Lewis advert and walking away and feeling, well, that was a bit, would I buy that? Or what was that really about? Really? That's where the complacency comes in. Oh, well, we can just make a really high budget advert and we'll put this, and we'll put that and make it about a dragon or whatever, and he's going to be sad, then he's going to be happy and you're thinking, yeah, but what was the point of it exactly? You kind of missed, don't go in for all the effects and all the craft, something really beautiful. Great. But it's got to resonate and make people want to go into John Lewis and do their Christmas shopping.

Katie Flamman 00:12:16:

Exactly. I think you said some two really important things there. Emotional connection is what it's all about. There's no point chucking a million pounds at something and who's got a million pounds for their marketing budget. You've got to have a strong story because we've all watched films and stuff where we've kind of gone "eh" and adverts. You've got to be connected emotionally to that product because people will remember how you made them feel, not necessarily what you said.

Melanie Perry 00:12:44:

Yeah. And like Marks and Spencers, again, is a classic example of. You may not realise it, but the Marks and Spencers and the Waitrose food adverts are kind of grooming you throughout the year for their Christmas advert because their food adverts are so fantastic, you actually quite enjoy them when they come on. I really want that pudding, or I really want that roast dinner, or I really want that dining for two experience kind of thing for ten pounds. Whatever they're offering at the time and through the season, it's kind of drip for this wonderful feeling about food and nurturing and good eating and good times. And then you've got the Christmas advert that kind of pulls that all together. And the Aldi adverts at Christmas are

Melanie Perry 00:13:24:

Very good with Colin the Carrot. Ridiculous, but...

Katie Flamman 00:13:25:

Other end of the scale. Right, but equally effective.

Melanie Perry 00:13:31:

Yeah, it's effective. So I think you've got to nurture your audience throughout the year. And if you're a small business and you don't have a lot of budget, there are other little things that you can do, because it's marketing at the end of day. It's all about touch points. What are you doing for your audience that are providing the key touch points throughout the year? So that when you have your big sell, whether it's Christmas, whether it's Easter, whether it's any other point in the year where you're doing a course or whatever it is you're doing, have you primed your audience enough at that point to sell out your course? To sell out that product?

Katie Flamman 00:14:06:

And that's a build up of trust, isn't it? By that kind of drip, drip, nurturing technique that you've been talking about, it's really fascinating.

Melanie Perry 00:14:16:

And it's got to be relatable. Yeah, it's got to be relatable to your audience. And this is where the emotion comes in. It's got to feel, yes, that's me, or, oh, I like that. Whether it's zany or quirky or whether it's drawing on deeper emotions, they have to feel connected to you and your brand.

Katie Flamman 00:14:32:

It's about trust, isn't it? I think so. I think they're connected enough. They feel like they know you, they like what they've seen, and then once they have fully invested themselves and their hearts and souls into what you're talking about and your story, then they're going to trust you enough to work with you, probably. I think it's super interesting. And are there things that you think small businesses can do, like on a sort of shoestring budget in order to create that kind of drip, drip effect?

Melanie Perry 00:15:07:

There's lots and lots and lots that small businesses could do. There has never been a better time to be a small business owner. We have got tons of tools at our disposal that are free. You can market yourself for free on LinkedIn, on Facebook, on Instagram, on TikTok, on Pinterest, and a load of other social media platforms. It's all free. There are sometimes you can up level and you can pay for certain things, but for the majority of us, you can do it for free. So you need to be doing that. People, when they talk to me about video, say, I can't do video.

I don't like, I can't talk on video. I can't do that. There is more to getting your brand feeling out there than just you talking on video. A number of ways. Yes, give people a flavour of who you are by doing a talking head. But if you do too many, I'll be honest, people will be bored silly of you. People don't want to hear you whacking on all the time. Sorry, they don't.

There are some great apps out there that you can create. Little cartoons that you can create motion graphics, motion text, that can inject a little bit of fun into your posts that are video content that take you two minutes to create on an app or within canva. Canva is a great tool. Canva is free. And even if you go for the paid version, it's only £100 for the entire year. It's a ridiculously low amount. And it gives you a raft of design tools. If you're not somebody who considers himself a designer or an artist, it's not a design tool, it's a format tool. Be honest. But sometimes that's all you need. And sometimes you can get a spark of creativity from that. Oh, I like that particular thing. But let me just change the colours and I'll just put it in my tone. There's a lot out there for free. You can put up, LinkedIn likes wordy posts and static images. People keep whacking on about it, but selfies actually do quite well on LinkedIn.

They still do. People like those sorts of things. So it's about getting to know what people like, how can you inject a bit of fun into it? I create quizzes. So when I put quizzes out there, people quite enjoy those. And I do those, especially for creatives, to test people's knowledge about the arts and whatever have you. But how can you inject a little bit more of the visual storytelling into, like a bland newsletter? Or people say, my newsletter is not bland, probably is, and people get a lot of that stuff. How can you make yours just a little bit different? By putting in GIFs or animations or making it a little bit more about your vibe. There's a lot of things that you can do.

Download GIFs from Giphy, and there are other GIF converters and creators out there if you care to look. Some are paid, some are free. I think still, I mean, a lot of these design things are getting costs. But if you look hard enough, there's a lot of things you can do. But you just have to be able to take the time out to investigate these things and sit down, even with somebody like me, to say, look, I'm not an artist. I don't know what to do. What should I be doing? Give me some hints. I run power hours and strategy sessions where I will sit down and talk with you and say, okay, what is it you want to do? What do you want your customers to feel? How best can you present that? What is it you want to get at the end of it? And then help build a strategy around that so that you've got the tools and the building blocks in place to deliver that marketing plan.

Putting out a video once or twice a week isn't going to cut it. You need to have a plan.

Katie Flamman 00:18:48:

That's super useful, because for a lot of people, all of these different platforms and things might feel a bit overwhelming. And the thought of kind of running your business and having to make videos or GIFs or animations or whatever, it just might feel horrendously difficult. But there are people like you with Poppy Perry media that can really kind of help and guide and give people a really clear plan as you say. Melanie, there's maybe a problem with overwhelm. There are so many platforms. What about if people are feeling just like, oh, there's too much. I don't even know where to start.

Melanie Perry 00:19:23:

Yeah. And I think that's a big problem because as we've touched on, there are so many free platforms. And of course, yes, you want to take advantage of those things. And there are a lot of gurus who say, you've got to be everywhere. You've got to be seen, got to be seen, got to be seen. But you can burn yourself out before you've even started. And my advice would be, do the one thing really well. You don't have to be everywhere all at once.

Do the one thing really well. Because as we talked about earlier, it's about relationships. You cannot build meaningful relationships if you are tearing yourself into 100 different pieces, trying to connect on TikTok, trying to do this, trying to be on YouTube, trying to be in everything, you don't have time for the meaningful conversations that are going to come from doing the one thing well. Pick a platform. Know where your audience is most likely to hang out. Are they on Facebook? Are they on LinkedIn? Are they on Instagram? Instagram is great for business. People convert tons from Instagram. So if you're a visually based business, that's kind of the place to be.

But pick a platform, do your research, pick a platform and stick to that one thing. When you've got that working really really well and you're getting the leads and you've got a bit more money to spend and you've got maybe a little bit more time, because you've employed someone now to handle the day to day in your business, leaving you free to do the other things that you want, then maybe you can start focusing on building up a presence on another platform. But when you're starting out, the worst thing I would say you can do is try to be everywhere all at once, because you're not going to get the leads, because you're not focusing your attention in the right place, which is building up a story to a set of people that you can communicate and have conversations with. And it's those conversations that will turn into customers.

Katie Flamman 00:21:06:

And I just want to go back to something you said quite a long time ago about connections and your other business, Creatives is a place where creative professionals can connect with each other. And sometimes you don't have to do these things alone. You can collaborate with other people and everybody can benefit, can't they?

Melanie Perry 00:21:28:

Absolutely. Collaboration is key. And with Creatives, we've seen a few really lovely collaborations happening between people that we'd never have put together in a million years. But that's what's so lovely about networking, is that you find the people, you find your tribe, you bounce some ideas off of each other, and something wonderful can happen. We as creatives, help creatives to be seen. We're very, very active on behalf of our members. That's one of the benefits that we offer that makes us different to everyone else. Yes, we have networking meetings, but we actively promote you on your behalf. So we will put you in other groups.

We will share your content in groups that you might not be a part of if you're an author. We belong to various author groups. We will make sure that your stuff is seen in those groups so you could get a message out of the blue by somebody who you might think, oh, I didn't even know they knew me. I've seen your posts. Creatives posted this about you, and I'd love to talk to you about this. You don't know where it can come from.

Katie Flamman 00:22:26:

And that's really powerful and really exciting as well. I mean, something that I think all creative people share is the need for the next kind of exciting event in their lives, whether it's a creative collaboration or a new project or whatever it might be. So that's brilliant. And of course, we will put all of the contact details for the creatives group and also for your company, Poppy Perry Media, in the show notes. So if anybody wants to get in touch with Melanie and the team, please check out the show notes, because everything that you need will be there. Well, our 20 minutes has just whizzed by Melanie, but I've got one more question for you, which is, where's your story going to go in the next five years ish, do you think?

Melanie Perry 00:22:05:

Well, I'm hoping to get two things, really. I'm hoping to get on the big screen again and also the small screen. I've got a feature film that I am currently in development, and I've also got a children's tv series that I'm putting into development. It's very early days yet, but I have a mentor to help me through, to navigate the children's television space. But that's really exciting, and I'd love to see that come off because I can see big things happening for that. And if my feature film gets made, yeah, that will be another big, big win because it's something very different. I like comedy, and this is going to be a horror.

Katie Flamman 00:23:47:

Well, you had massive success with your first comedy short, didn't you?

Melanie Perry 00:23:52:

Yeah, that was a short. This will be a feature, so it's going to be a whole different ball game, but yes. So it's all a bit stressy trying to do things in the background with regards to those and run my businesses as well.

Katie Flamman 00:23:46:

Just create a tv series and a movie

Melanie Perry 00:24:06:

In five years time you'll just see me on the red carpet. It'll just be lovely. Yeah. Or I'll be dead.

Katie Flamman 00:24:16:

No, you won't be dead from stress. You'll be swanning down the red carpet and accepting all the accolades that are coming your way. Well, I wish you every success. I cannot wait to see what happens with all these really exciting projects. And you're helping other people along the way as well so the world's busiest creative

Melanie Perry 00:24:35:

I need voices, Katie for my children's tv series. So I'll be in touch.

Katie Flamman 00:24:40:

Fantastic. Fantastic. Well, Melanie Perry, thank you so much.

Melanie Perry 00:24:44:

Thank you, Katie.

Katie Flamman 00:24:45:

Oh, wow.

Melanie is one to watch. So what did we learn today? Here are my key takeaways. One, rules are made to be broken. Creativity doesn't follow the rules. So if you want your storytelling messages to stand out from the crowd, be original and throw the rulebook out the window. Remember that Picasso quote Melanie shared? Learn the rules like a pro so you can break them like an artist. Two, your marketing goal is to attract the people that you want to do business with. If you create content that's totally authentically, you speaking in your voice, then your message will resonate with particular people.

They'll gravitate to you. You don't want to appeal to everyone because not everyone is a good fit for you and your business. So just do you. Three, you don't need to tell your story all in one go. Create an emotional connection by keeping your audience guessing. Remember the ongoing story of the will they won't they Nescafe Gold Blend couple Melanie suggested that you drip feed your brand story like that throughout the year, like Marks and Spencer food adverts, so that your customers already have an emotional connection to your brand. Their mouths are already watering, if you like, when you're ready to market your big item. Four, it's easy to get overwhelmed by the number of social media platforms, so Melanie's advice was to figure out where your audience hangs out, then concentrate telling your story on that one platform.

It's all about sparking conversations, so don't forget to interact with anyone who comments and start forging those relationships. Five, keep your content and your stories interesting, fresh, and varied. If the thought of speaking on video every day makes your toes curl, that's okay. Probably no one wants to watch daily videos of you. But once a week, perhaps. And there are loads of free resources for creating other types of content, from GIF creation apps to graphics platforms like Canva. Variety is the spice of life and the spice of marketing. So much great advice there.

And of course, you can get in touch with Melanie if you'd like her personal help with navigating it all.

In our next episode. When your business story is public property and creates new stories of its own.

Neil Reed 00:27:18:

Every single person that walks through the door has a different reason to come here. Winnie the Pooh is something that binds these people and it holds them in a way that very few books would. And it's fascinating to then learn about these people because for us, it's a life journey in learning about their stories.

Katie Flamman 00:27:17:

That's Neil Reed, the owner of the Pooh corner gift shop and tea room. We talk about story, legacy and responsibility, and how a 100 year old children's story became a world famous brand. It's such a good episode and it's ready for you right now. But this episode is coming to an end. massive thanks to Melanie Perry once again. My contact details are in the show notes just like hers, so do get in touch if you'd like my help with your next project. I'm Katie Flamman, and this is storytelling for business. Goodbye.