Hey, what's up everybody?

How are you doing today?

Today's community conversation is all about building resiliency through soft skills and how can we handle and deal with any sort of uncertainty.

That's a big conversation that a lot of you have been asking us as how do we deal with the uncertainty?

Now some, some people have said that they don't think they're not worried about the economy.

And that's amazing.

And so like, if you're not worried about the economy then, then I would love to hear from you and you know, what are you doing that's making you so, so like not worried.

But even if you're not worried about the economy, we're going to talk about how you can drive deeper relationships, build deeper loyalty, increase your retention significantly and you can even build a clientele this way.

Now all of the things we're gonna talk about today will double as ways to recession resistant your business.

Today I have a special guest, Diana Vivaro.

She's the director of the Paul Mitchell School in New York City.

So I'm gonna invite her on right now and we are gonna get busted.

You, Diana?

Hopefully I clicked the right button.

Yeah.

Okay, cool.

All right, so as soon as Diana joins, we'll go a little deeper and get a little go get, go get started.

We have.

Oh, here we go.

Go live.

Yeah.

All right.

I don't know why, but it doesn't let me accept in requests I don't understand on Instagram Live.

It's like a product that they stopped developing.

So there we go.

Hi, how are you?

Great, how are you?

I'm good, I'm good.

Thank you so much.

So I was just letting everybody know the topics we're talking about, but would you give us a little intro to you for anybody who's tuning in that hasn't met you yet about who you are and why this topic is an important one to you?

Yes, definitely.

I'm Diana Vivaro.

I'm currently the school director at Paul Mitchell the school NYC.

I have been there for over 13 years now.

I love working with our future professionals and really just connecting with the future of the industry.

And I also have a lot of ties and big connections within the community to with all of our salon and spa partners and friends.

So like you talk about bridging the gap.

I like to be that, that person to kind of help them, you know, find their perfect match from being a future professional to moving into being a professional in the industry.

Awesome.

Well, I think that that's awesome because like, you know, when we go around and we talk to employers locally.

The lot there is, the biggest concern isn't whether the students are.

They have the technical skills.

It is the ability to take constructive criticism and not internalize it and take it personally.

How to show up and show up, be reliable.

That's really.

That's one of the big challenges.

Show up professionally, ready to work, wanting to be a team player, understanding the concept of goodwill within a team and doing things that are.

Are not transactional.

They're.

They're intended to build a relationship.

Sometimes you don't get paid for every single thing you do kind of thing.

And that's like a really hard thing to communicate.

And so that's why I love the.

Doing these talks, because we're hoping that not only the salon owners that are watching it, William maybe gets.

Pick up some of the language we use, kind of like the angles in which we are approaching that we think that it should be best approached, but also some students who might be watching this to understand the value that salon owners and barbershop owners, too, are placing on etiquette and professionalism.

And that does seem to be the desert that we're in right now.

And so I think that this is a great conversation.

And, you know, the students that have watched this stuff and heard our conversations, they do tell us that they get a lot out of it.

I don't know.

Is that.

Do you.

Do you have that experience as well?

And if you don't, do you think, how can we increase the value for those students?

Definitely.

So, I mean, I speak to our students all.

We call them future professionals all the time.

I'm huge.

Everyone knows that.

Soft skills for me, building relationships, all that stuff.

Stuff.

I feel like if you have that, you could be successful no matter what industry you're in.

So I believe in obviously giving our future professionals the best technical education.

But no matter how great you are, technically, if you do not have the professional development portion, that's going to make everything so much harder for you.

So I really believe so much in its value.

So I think that having this conversation is amazing because it does need to be brought to a broader light.

When you speak to the future professionals every day, they tend to not listen to you as much.

So it's great when they hear it from other people as well.

Like I told you, I'm not just making these things up.

So I'm really thrilled to have this conversation with you.

Awesome.

And it's not just the students.

I think that we could all, myself included, I love the conversation because I'm like such a better service provider when I'm actively engaged in these conversations.

It's almost.

And the same thing happens.

Like I was just doing a foundational cutting boot camp and I.

It just finished like a couple weeks ago.

My cutting is like in my like behind the chair is like so much better and more intentional.

I do have to add like extra time to my appointments after I run a boot camp because I do slow down.

But like it just goes to show, like if you measure something and pay attention to something and talk about something, you're subconsciously going to be acting on it.

So like just us talking about it is going to make me better for my customers tomorrow.

Like, I already know that, you know, so.

Okay, so let's get started.

I pulled up a few talking points here and I just want to dig in.

So let's talk about something that appeals to a wide audience, everybody.

So soft skills in general.

We talked about professionalism, how what are the different types of things that you fall under?

Soft skills for you and like in, in your, in your view.

So basically communication, verbal, physical, just the way you interact, the way you make that client or that guest feel, Just people in general.

It could be somebody in the grocery store.

If you have that skill set and you're able to be able to strike up conversations, give compliments and just have that easy to build rapport, that's when you start to build long lasting relationships, which is a little bit harder for the younger generation being that they do so much of their socializing through the phone.

So we really try to work on that.

But yet like being able to use reflective listening and you know, have that understanding between the service that you're going to perform, like there's just so much that goes into it, but you really having a conversation, like the biggest part.

So stylists at north says yes to building relationships.

Amen.

And Frankie B.

Insights.

Those who teach it, learn it the best.

I would agree with both of those statements.

And somebody my senior, when I was an apprentice told me that if I wanted to be good teach, because you have to be able to like explain everything to like and you have to be able to handle all the different angles in which people are like seeing and hearing you.

So I agree with that.

Okay, so soft skills to me is yes, the communication stuff.

And I, I think it's like a pretty broad thing.

I was putting together like a course for some salons and it's like, you know, hospitality, you know, like making.

I think that for me soft skills is about Serving, serving my guests and like, wanting to always be right and want to be perfect doesn't mean that we have to take constructive criticism, negativity or confrontation and internalize it and take it personally.

Because, like, in a way, I want to know if you think I'm wrong and if.

Or if I'm like, if I'm like, got something in my teeth or if I got toilet paper stuck to my pants, you know?

You know, the same thing is if I'm talking too loud in the salon or maybe I'm getting into a conversation that maybe I should be having.

I wanted people to call me out, because if they call me out and I course correct, then I get to be right, you know?

So, like, for me, it's like being right means adapting to when you're wrong or, or.

Or taking the constructive criticism.

Now criticism is just criticism.

That's not what I'm talking about.

I'm like, I'm saying, like, when it comes to my heart, or it's like a legitimate, like, yo, you need to like, stop dropping the F bomb.

I know you're getting really excited, but like, I got customers in here.

I, I shouldn't be doing it anyway.

I should be staying more aware, but like, having a team around me also, like goodwill, like this concept of goodwill.

I, I never knew that it needed to be explained because I.

I don't know.

I just.

I.

I had an apprentice and they, they were transitioning to go on the floor.

This is actually.

Have I told you this, this.

But yet about someone transition on the floor and being asked to do something?

Maybe.

Yes, Maybe.

Okay, well, all right, well, I'll present you with the scenario and we'll go, we'll go from there.

And in, like, even if you've heard it before, let's kind of play through it because I'd be curious to know how you respond to this, being so close to the, to future professionals and the rise in the, you know, the, the next generation of hairdressers and barbers and beauty professionals.

So the transitional period was that on some days, the per the, The I.

I use the word apprentice.

And just for the record, everybody, the word apprentice to me has nothing to do with licensure.

Apprenticeships are, in my opinion, should be a part of the process whether you go to school or not.

And so, like, you can get your license in two different ways in some places.

Some places you can only get in one way.

That's.

I don't have that licensure conversation.

For me, think little A, not big A Apprentice Big A apprenticeship is a legal regulated thing.

A little.

A apprenticeship is where you learn on the job underneath of somebody.

You learn how to work with the customers.

You work within the brand, you refine your skills.

So in the hair hairdresser Strong believes every single person who wants to be a behind the chair career stylist or barber needs to do some form of apprenticeship regardless of school and licensure.

Okay, so now, so that, so now that I've put that out there.

So our apprentice, Little a apprentice was transitioning onto the floor, had two days as an assistant apprentice and then one day she like they were licensed and, and the other day, the other days they could come in and build their book and they made their own schedule and all they had to do was be on time and, and be reliable Bible.

And like so when we had walk ins and stuff and, and then you know, whatever the details, these pieces of the details aren't as important as, as the part where they're like on the floor and, and assisting.

Well the deal was on the floor.

You could either be a salary based or you could be commission based.

It's up to you.

But like you know, there's difference.

Like if you're salary based and we need someone to fold towels, we're going to need you to help us full towels.

But if you're, if you're strictly commission based then we, then that's not, you know, we're not going to be like hey go, go and sweep the floor.

We need you to do the towels.

So they opted to be on commission.

They're like, I would like to like be able to sit, sit up in the basement or go around to the local stores or be on my social media when I'm not busy to work on getting my clients.

And I'm like totally makes sense.

Well, unbeknownst to me, the apprentice had a, had, had been talking to our colorist in the salon.

We have one person who only does color and they had set up a time for the little apprentice transitioning hairstylist to, to get their color done from the colorist.

And the colorist was like coming in early or like when she wasn't going to be there anyway to do, do their hair.

And that was supposed to take place like in the near future.

And on this day particular the colorist was putting away the color.

We're all commission based.

We don't get paid to put away the color or color orders.

Ultimately it's my job.

But the colorist doesn't, you know, she, if she's not busy.

She wants to do it because, like, she's the one who uses.

Like is more into the color line and, like, keeping it stocked.

She does more color than anybody, and she also wants the stuff put away.

She doesn't want to wait for me because I will wait till the end of the day to put it away.

So it's just teamwork, you know, Sometimes people like, hey, I'm bored.

You know, hey, can I do this thing?

And we got a dope team.

And Violet, Sloan, you're amazing.

Y'all are amazing.

And we help each other out all the time.

We sweep up after each other.

We help each other wear our shampoos.

I mean, we have assistance, but sometimes we get busy, you know?

Well, this time we got busy.

And the colorist asked the young stylist to finish putting away the color because her client came in early, and it became this big confrontation because the apprentice, the stylist, young, new stylist, wanted, did was like, well, I'm not getting paid.

And the colorist, like, litter lit them up.

Like, they were so upset about it because they felt disrespected.

And I told the colorist, I was like, look, they're not.

They're not getting paid.

And I told them, you know, this is the deal.

You won't be asked to do anything.

And.

And the colorist says, yeah, well, she shouldn't be asking me to do their color, you know, because.

Because if you do, if I'm doing their color, like, she's asking me to come in my time off.

I'm asking to help me with this.

Like.

Like, that's my expectation.

It has nothing to do with you, so you need to stay out of it.

She told me that this is between them, too.

It has nothing to do with management.

It has to do with, hey, this is.

And I.

And I realized that's called goodwill.

I Like, if you think that you need to be paid and life is transactional, it'll be really hard for you to be a team player.

And if you don't do things to build goodwill, when you need something from somebody, then they're not going to give it to you unless you pay them, you know?

So, anyway, I'm going to stop talking and see what you have to say about all that, because I don't think I'm right.

I'm still trying to navigate this one.

It still got me thinking.

All right, so honestly, that would completely be unacceptable for me.

I feel like no matter what you're.

You should work as a team and I just feel like that shows poor work ethic.

Whether you're getting paid or not, if you're a hairstylist or you're a colorist or whatever, you need to be professional at all times.

Clean up after yourself.

Like, instead of sitting around wasting time, you should be doing things to keep yourself busy, making things run smoother.

And then eventually, if you keep yourself busy, you're going to become busy.

But if you're sitting around waiting, I don't know what you're waiting for because you're just going to be sitting there waiting forever.

Like, you need to be proactive if you want to be successful.

That is determined by the amount of work that you're willing to put in.

So if you're not willing to do the work, there are many others who are, and that's who people are going to choose.

That's who's going to be your top.

A number one assistant.

It's going to be the person that goes above and beyond without being told.

I feel like the people who can anticipate the needs of the expectations of the job, and in general, those are the people that are going to do the, the most.

Like, I want you to do it without even having to be asked to be honest.

Like, that's what I feel like it takes.

And that's, I can tell you from all the years of doing it, you see the people that put the work in, the people that have the hustle that they, they go above and beyond, those are the people that become successful and quickly.

Whereas the other people that you have to instruct to clean the floor or sweep the floor before you turn the blow dryer on, those are people that are going to constantly be.

Need to be reminded, and it's going to be a lot harder for them to move up than it is for somebody that is prepared to just step in and do whatever it is that it takes.

So totally I love that answer.

Okay, so I don't.

I.

Because I was like, struggling with, like, I feel like, you know, I, I agree with you, but I just, you know, I.

Sometimes I feel like an old soul in a new world and I just have to check to make sure these views are still valid in this day and age.

So.

Okay, so.

J.

Cash, the hair tech, says teamwork makes the dream work.

Something stylists are slowly letting go these days, but it is our job to set the examples.

Yeah.

Amen.

Amen.

Yeah.

Sorry, what were you going to say?

No, I love that.

I think that's true.

Like, you have to set the Examples at the expectation and then have other people follow, like, let.

Let them know.

Kind like it's.

It's not really okay to do that.

And what, what is the reasoning?

Why, like, what's in it for them?

Like, if you hustle and you move faster, you'll see more guests.

If you're nicer to people, more people will recommend people to you.

Like, what do you have to do to get that return on what you're looking for?

You know, so you have to invest.

You have to invest your time, your skills, the way you treat people, the way you build relationships.

It takes so much.

So, like, people think it's something so silly as, like, oh, washing the shampoo bowl down.

Like, you know, like, like, that's like something that's.

It's so simple.

But if you don't do that, like, that's like, I don't understand, like, the simplest things.

Like, you have to be able to do all of that in order to be great at the really big things.

You know, you could be a balayage, but if you can't shampoo properly and, like, clean up and you, like, have bleach all over your clients, it's not going to.

It just doesn't work, you know, so that's the thing that I try to have our future professionals understand.

Like, it's so, so important.

Totally, totally.

I love that.

All right.

Okay, so we have a special guest that we're going to bring on.

Would you like to introduce our guest while I bring them on?

Yes, absolutely.

So we have with us today Frank Bennett from A.F.

bennett Salon and Wellness Spa, and he is also the content creator for Frankie B.

Insights.

He's a successful salon owner and he also has his own podcast, and he would like to talk about his views from the salon owner angle.

Hi, Frank.

Peace.

Well, welcome, welcome.

So you heard the conversation we were having.

But before we dive in, would you.

I mean, Diane, Diana, you did a really good job introducing him.

So is there anything else that you would like to share about yourself or just dive into your thoughts on this topic?

Well, let me first start with.

I'm an old school soul living in a new world.

But what I recognize is when I try to twist the new world into my old school thought process, a lot of times we get a lot of collisions.

Right.

So I find this really, really important to kind of understand that first of all, we have to understand what the dynamic at the moment is.

We could sit here pissing and moaning and complaining about.

You know, I remember going back when I was a Kid.

Oh, this young generation, they have this crazy.

They do these things.

So.

And that was me.

So I think what we have to do is we just have to kind of.

Just kind of lighten up a little bit here and just recognize that, you know, these.

Let's use Gen Z's, if you will, because that's probably the group of people we're really talking about.

They're.

They're.

They're doing things differently.

They're doing things from a perspective that perhaps we don't really understand or we haven't really walked through.

In other words, we haven't really walked in their shoes.

Right.

And they haven't walked through our shoes.

But here's what I've learned.

I've learned that they are the coolest bunch of people that are willing to listen if you make sense.

More importantly, they're willing to listen to you if you're authentic.

Yeah.

They're not about the bullshit.

Don, you were saying it just before, where you explain what's going on and you're getting this feedback where you're like kind of.

They kind of like shut you down in that.

In that argument that was going on over there.

Diana, you and I are more.

Are more on the same.

In the same school because we work together, right?

Yeah.

And, you know, we know there was a certain protocol, the way certain things went and so on and so forth.

So I would probably say that in really, really poring over this, I kept coming away with.

One thought that kept coming back to me is really laying out the expectation at the hiring process, the entering into the apprenticeship.

Because we have apprenticeship in our salon.

Should I say little apprenticeship, small A.

I learned something today.

So we have that right.

But what we do is we go as far as to putting it into writing.

We'll say, hey, look, this is when you come in with us.

This is the expectation.

Then what happens is when apprentices are going to.

What your point was when they were moving into going from apprentice into.

I'm starting to morph into butterflies, starting to come out of the cocoon and starting to get its wings is going to go on the floor, for lack of a better word.

Well, there's another something I might recommend, and for those people on this call, I think this might be really helpful because I've always learned it's always about managing expectations.

Right when that time is happening, you don't give somebody the carrot first.

You hold on to the carrot and you say, it's a really nice carrot.

It's a long carrot.

It's got Tons of vitamin A in it.

Oh, my God, that's a delicious carrot.

But hold on a second.

Before I give you this carrot, let's have a conversation of what things will look like.

And this.

The conversations we have, we'll say things like, hey, listen, when you're not busy, the expectation is not that it would be.

Not that it would be nice if you do this.

The expectation is that you're gonna show up in this way.

You're gonna show up in.

When someone needs a shampoo, you're not gonna be in the staff room, you're gonna be there.

When someone needs color to be shampooed out, you're gonna be there because as Diana said, one day you're gonna need this same thing done for you.

And it builds to your point.

Goodwill.

But that.

That's so good.

The goodwill doesn't just happen.

Right?

Again, a lot of these kids are coming from.

I'm not trying to be a dick right now.

I'm sorry.

But, you know, and I did.

I came from a broken family.

I just did.

Authority was kind of weird.

There was a lot of stuff going on.

And essentially, I kind of learned life, how to survive, how to do certain things, and how to get my needs met.

And to be honest with you, a lot of times it came down to if I didn't get my own, I didn't get it right.

I learned how to get my own.

But I was fortunate enough to come up in a day and age where Vidal Sassoon, Graham Webb, Paul Mitchell, John Sahad, I can go on and on and on.

Warren Tracomi, the Trevor saw me, for goodness sake.

The champions of our industry had salons, and you got through an apprenticeship at.

Let's just use Vidal Sassoon for just shits and giggles.

Do you need me to really finish this conversation?

No.

We understand that in today's day and age, that would be completely imbalanced.

So, yeah, we can't go on with this old mentality of thinking.

Yeah, well, that's how I paid my.

You have a lot of hairdressers, let's be honest, owners of salons.

I paid my dues.

This is how we did it.

You start to sound like your grandpa.

You got to recognize that they see things differently.

But guess what?

They are good, sensible people.

Set the expectation.

When you hire them, show them what it looks like.

How about this?

When they do something cool, kids tell somebody they're doing something wrong all the time.

When they do something good, reinforce it with positive feedback.

Hey, I really like the way you know, when Mary Lou was really busy, you showed up and you even stayed 15 minutes late.

I want to let you know that didn't go, that didn't go unnoticed.

Well done.

You're gonna be great with this team.

Right?

And then to be honest with you, I don't necessarily agree with the commission or the salary model.

And I'll go into that.

So we worked as a commission based salon for some period of time.

We were departmental, which meant we were had hair colorists and hairdressers and, you know, hair color made all the money.

Hairdressers pissed and moaned in the back room about how the hair color made all this money and so on, so forth.

So at one point in time, we said, hey, listen, we gotta figure this out.

We have to teach everyone how to do everything.

Now that worked for us.

I'm not saying that that is a model that's good for everybody, but that's what worked for us in.

And during that time, we learned something about commission, straight commission.

What we've learned is it became a very selfish model.

And what it did, it profit.

It propagated the me, myself and I theory.

Because if you're on commission, who the hell are you?

I'm pointing.

Who the hell are you to tell somebody, get up and start folding towels?

Right.

That's exactly what happened.

Right.

Okay, so, so, so here's the model.

Here's the model that after all these years.

And by the way, just so you know, we went on what's known.

We went on what's known as salon based pay, which, which is essentially, it's an algorithm you use.

You take about the amount of dollars that they do and they produce.

You take a six month model, you divide that by a certain period and they come up an hourly wage.

And then when they move into a certain level, they get a raise and so on and so forth.

We did that.

And guess what?

Here's the good news.

We produce the biggest lazy bunch of hairdressers I've ever seen in my life.

Because what we did is we took the wind out of their sails.

Yeah, yeah, right.

So, so I recognized, I said we, you know, I had producers that were, you know, they were booking six, $7,000 a week, and then now they're starting to book 4,500.

I'm gonna go.

Hold on a second.

Hold on.

Something's not working here.

Right?

So it was, it was, it was a year.

It was a year.

We were one of the beta sites.

It was a big thing in the.

I want to say the mid 2000s, 29, 10, 11 recession got hairdressers thinking about how do we put more money in our pockets and less money in the pockets of our hairdressers?

Because they've already built up clientele's, how can we bamboozle them?

That's really what it came down to.

And then we figured out there's a way to blend both of these things where you can do salary and commission.

Now, we're not geniuses.

Some of the grandfathers, some of the patriarchs and matriarchs of our industry, that was their model for a zillion years.

People went away from it, just come back to, that's a model that works.

Why does that model work?

I mean, it's a simple thing because I'm giving you so much salary, you're getting minimum wage, whatever it might be paying you legally.

If I need something from you, I need you to be in a meeting and need you to be on zoom.

I'd like you to be, I'd like you to be at a training which is going to enrich you.

I can say that's required now.

And guess what?

No one wants to be a tyrant walking around with a whip in their hand thinking it's circa 1923.

But the truth of the matter is it's about managing expectations.

It's about letting people see the big picture.

It's about leading.

I'm going to say it's like leading like Jesus.

It's about leading with love.

Serve, leadership.

When people see their leaders serving and walking the walk, they will do that.

And this was an early conversation we had earlier.

You know, a lot of times, if we're, if we're not walking in the role, these kids want to use the word kids, this generation of hairdressers are coming out of school who maybe didn't have tremendous discipline in the home.

Maybe they didn't have two or three great jobs where there was a great boss that really, really showed he or she showed them what it looks like they're coming in a lot of times what happens is incumbent upon the salon, the salon owner, the manager to be able to share with them what the, what the dealio is.

Right?

And if we don't do that, and we are expecting, Diana, you probably know this one.

When you expect, expect to be disappointed.

You have to inspect what you expect, expect.

Right, inspect what you expect.

And, and, and, and we can't think people are going to walk into our salons and have goodwill by osmosis.

They're going to understand these Soft skills by osmosis or that they should just know it.

Yeah, you just said it earlier.

You said, you said that, you know, we live in, we live in this world where, you know, congratulations, here, you got a trophy.

If you're just waking up today, or you, you watch Instagram or you're on Tick Tock, or you're watching YouTube videos of everyone telling you that the world owes you everything and you see all these people killing it.

But here's the thing.

What we don't see in social media, we don't see the grinding.

We don't see the 25 film takes it took and outtakes it took to actually produce three minutes of content.

You just see the most amazing shit and you think you should be there because you.

So everyone tells you that you're so freaking amazing.

You have to be.

People going to tell them, listen, you are amazing, but you're not as amazing as you could be.

And here's how we get there.

And let's show you the steps.

Let me mentor you.

Let me walk through this with you.

Let me show you how you do it.

How about this?

Saturday morning, you know something?

I'm.

I'm the boss.

I have a 10,000 square foot salon.

Saturday morning.

You know, I love to do.

When all the, all the customers are there and my stylists are working, I like to pick up the broom and start sleeping.

Yeah.

And they're looking at me like, what are you doing?

I said, no, no, you're busy.

No, no, no, no, no.

Oh.

And I walk over to the guest and they'll say, you know something?

I know we're really crazy busy here, and I know, you know, Vildana is really busy, but can I, can I make you a cappuccino?

I'll bring it over in a jiff.

We show humility through servant leadership.

Yeah, hierarchy doesn't work.

So I got a question.

Do you.

Wait, I love all this, what you're saying.

This servant leading by service.

I love that, all of that.

And I also like the managing expectations stuff.

I definitely learned a valuable lesson with that transitional phase.

Like having that option.

I totally agree.

Is not a.

It's not a good strategy.

And, and I, I would, I'd be curious to know what type of ways are you able to teach, develop a new talent in the realm of, like, customer service?

Well, we have something called the map book.

Right.

So when we were, we were, you know, young hairdressers and my wife worked at Vidal Sassoon.

I worked under an associate with Trevor.

Sorby and, you know, the British do things pretty freaking cool.

I'm going to be honest with you.

There's no reason why.

There's no.

No surprise that they dominated the music industry and they essentially developed everything we know about hair at this point in time, let's be honest.

All right?

That's just what it is.

Okay?

So they.

They understood.

They understood the importance of details and drills.

Now, this is gonna sound crazy.

This is not the army, but drills.

I'm gonna say.

Let me just.

Let me just flesh that out for a minute.

So when we.

When my wife was an apprentice at Vidal Saran and I was working, we had a book.

We had a map book and this map book.

It was everything from the beginning of hairdressing to the day we went on the floor and what the expectations look like through tests and so on and so forth.

But you know what it started off with?

I wish I had it with me.

You know something?

We're gonna.

If you invite me back, I'm gonna bring one with me, and you're gonna love it.

I'm gonna go through this map book with you, and I'll put.

I put stuff up.

It's pretty cool.

Our map book starts out with day one.

Greeting a guest, making a beverage.

Learn how to make all of our beverages.

How to hang up a coat.

How to shake someone's hand.

Wow, I love this.

How to make eye contact.

How to make eye contact.

How do you use the person's name five times in and through the visit?

How to use the person's name five times in and through the visit?

How to.

When someone's.

You know, how do you.

How does it.

How does a guest use the restroom?

Do we say, oh, yeah, so it's over there?

No, we walk them in the bathroom.

What does it look like?

When we shampoo, we use a hot towel.

We use a compress.

We give them a hand massage.

We talked.

We talk to them with a certain amount of dialogue, and we show them how to read body cues when a person wants to talk and when a person wants to relax, we use the 7030 rule.

In those, it's three days training.

Three days use the 7032 tool.

You talk 70 about them and 30 about yourself.

How many hairdressers get that wrong?

You sit there.

Yeah, yeah, they sit.

You sit in their chair, and they're already telling you about their vacation and this and that.

Lack of a better word.

Seriously, people love.

We've learned this in psychology.

We've learned this over and over again.

How to win People and influence them.

We've learned when you talk about other people, it's a good thing.

It makes them feel honored, it makes them feel received again.

These are all things in like day one.

And guess what, just so you said something before about you're going to go back and you cut hair and you have to have 15 minutes tomorrow.

I'm going to go in, I'm going to have, I'm going to be all geared up about soft skills because I know we're dropping the ball somewhere.

So I have a.

I got another question.

So what do you like we discussed like the new, I don't know another better way to say it, but like the new world, like the new age, new people, new ideas.

How have you adapted how you communicate?

And because what I'm hearing you say is nothing really new, it just sounds like you did all the work that you were supposed to do.

That when they tell you like, hey, when you open up a business, you should codify everything, have everything, like, you know, step by step, how we talk to each other, how we do everything, blah, blah.

And it's kind of like that was I got work done.

I did my apprenticeship at a salon like that and there are salons like that.

But most salons don't seem have something like that.

This map book or this manual that goes in depth into all of these things.

Like how do you make eye contact, how do you shake hands?

I think that's amazing.

So like, what about your process is new or is it just the extra communication and expectation laying out?

Or have you always done that?

I feel like that piece for me is the new piece is like you really gotta like make sure that you're on the same page page before you start that relationship.

With the new hire, it seems to be way more important than it ever seemed to be.

But that's just, I don't know.

What are your thoughts?

My thoughts are be slow to hire, be fast, fire, don't never hire out of desperation.

Hire higher.

The one I'm going to go right back to one of my mentors in Paul Mitchell, Wayne Claybaugh.

Some will, some won't.

So what?

Guess what?

Some people just not going to do it.

And somebody else waiting around who will.

Some people won't.

Some people just won't do it.

You know, I've taken people that I show with a great heart.

I've sponsored them.

Did like, you know, the little, hey, I said come in the salon, you're not going to touch anyone.

You start work, start out, start our workshop.

You got the heart for this?

I'll tell you what, you, you get 50 of the money up at cosmetology school, I'll pay for the other half.

By the way, I sent them to the cheap place.

But anyway, but sorry, you know, I just have to tell the truth.

But you know, I mean, that's a one off.

But I guess that's really what I'm really saying here is we hire hard, right?

We don't, we never hire skill.

The hairdresser walks into my place and says, I got 1300 people who follow me.

I don't work Sundays, I leave when I want.

If I don't have a guest, I'll text you, don't text me, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

I said, that's really great.

I know a couple great swans who would love to have you because it's not the place for you.

Right?

So I would.

That's not part of our culture.

Right?

Yeah.

I would say that you are kind of supporting a view that I have had and I've been talking to my wife, who's also my business partner about this.

The new world isn't really that new when it comes down to it.

It's like there is enough.

There is no way that a student can learn fully, be capable of, of like taking customers and stuff until they're working in a salon under people, unless they have some sort of natural etiquette or, you know, I'm sure, Diana, you have some students that are probably like ready to go.

But like, as a majority, as a whole, like, if we're thinking, not thinking about the exception to the rule and like the, the flying high, like social media, amazing person, which I feel like our industry is really good at just lifting up.

I don't think that way.

I think like the majority and, and the more I dig into it, it doesn't.

The only thing that seems different is, is that I remember when I was coming up, I was grateful just to have a job at the place I wanted to work at.

So I was willing to bend over backwards and do whatever I wanted to without asking any questions.

And so like, I think that was my.

I think that's a difference.

I feel like I don't really see that.

I feel like every, everything is like a negotiation.

It's professional.

And like, I, I don't dislike it.

I, I'm not saying it's a pop good or negative thing, but to me that's the only difference that I've noticed is like, you got to really have your shit together as excuse My language.

As a.

As a business owner, you really have to have all that documentation.

You really have to be able to have those conversations, because if you don't, you step into a landmine, like I was talking about earlier.

And so, like, that seems to be the biggest difference.

What do you all say about.

What do you all have to say about that?

I.

I'm going to be honest.

I think that a lot of people.

A lot of salon owners, obviously not Frank, don't realize that they need to teach these people, you know, their.

Their new talent.

Things so simple as how to look a person in the eyes.

But, right.

Fortunately, like, it's.

It is now, you know, like you said when we were younger, you just had a hustle.

You just did whatever.

Like, you taught yourself.

Like, you know, and you.

You sought mentors out.

And, like, if you're that type of person, then you're gonna be 100.

Good.

But most people even realize that.

I think they're just so used to, like, having things handed.

Like.

Like, honestly, I don't think kids sweep the floor.

Like, I remember scrubbing my house when my mother went to work.

But, like, kids don't clean.

They just don't, unfortunately.

Like, you know, I mean, it is.

It is what it is.

But, like, that starts.

That, like, literally starts at home and my own son included.

So I'm not gonna, you know, sit around and say that, you know, talk bad about parents because you wanted to give all your kids everything you had.

You want to make their lives easier, you know, so you.

I didn't teach my son how to, you know, put his plate in the sink, apparently.

You know what I mean?

What?

It's like, so, you know, that they could just, you know, just do whatever.

Like, you have to tell them if.

If you don't tell them exactly what you expect, they'll literally just sit there and chill.

Like, they'll be on their phone.

They'll just, you know, be talking to each other.

Like, it's not an automatic thought.

Like, oh, there's laundry over here.

Oh, that looks dirty.

Oh, something fell on the floor.

Let me pick it up.

Like, they literally are waiting to be told.

So that's what our job is now in cosmetology school, is that we have to teach all these extra things that used to kind of just be.

I don't want to say, like, common sense, because I'm not trying to, like, be that hard either, but, you know, it just.

Things just happen.

Like, people used to do these things automatically.

They don't do those things Automatically Anym.

Diana.

I love what I.

I just have to jump in because I really love what you said.

Yes, please.

Did you know.

I'm not even kidding.

Did you know in high school, they actually have a class where they teach people how to boil water?

I'm not even kidding.

I'm really not.

I had that class, how to boil water.

Right.

So that you might.

You know, that might sound absurd to you.

So going back to.

Are people different?

Here's the thing.

Solomon said there's nothing new under the sun, right?

People are still people.

People still.

In other words, people didn't change.

The gray matter, the brain matter didn't change.

What changed is the programming.

So catch it.

This is really good.

If you can gently install a new program consistently with love.

Yeah.

And again, that requires shit you didn't have to do 20 years ago.

Yeah.

So.

But.

But guess what?

You can either bitch how it used to be or get with the program.

Say, this is how it is.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So that's what we just, you know, we work around that, like you're saying, and just let them know, like, why it's important.

Like, hey, this is gonna make you successful.

And then they kind of pick it up.

But it's like, they'll listen to you.

It's just.

You have to.

You have to let them know why.

Like, why should they do that?

Why it's so important.

Oh, my God.

They want to know why about everything, right, Diana?

It's like.

It's like, you know, because you remember back in the day, right?

I mean, you guys are both.

You guys have both appreciate this, right?

You know, your boss said, do something, right?

You just did it.

You didn't ask why, right?

Did you know, this is really interesting.

Did you know that the United States military had to redesign the first week of basic training because they recognized that they were dealing with a generation that said why to every order?

And guess what?

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

It's pretty interesting, right?

So.

So they're.

They're an inquisitive bunch.

But that goes back to the first thing I was saying.

If you could apply them with the why and tell them, Diane, you said this.

It was.

Right.

It was out of your mouth.

If you could give them the understanding, the why, to be honest with you, a lot of times they'll get right on board.

It's not like us, Jet.

You know, us Gen X's, we just want to do this to our boss.

Ah.

You know, we're like, yeah, that's the man.

No, this is not that bunch.

In Fact, millennials were even a little much more difficult.

This is a really easy bunch of people to work with.

They communicate well with sense, good reason, but you got it.

You have to give them the why before it happens.

And again, it's all about being prepared.

I know tomorrow go in, it'll be a disaster.

There'll be all kinds of shit will be happening.

Just because I had this conversation today.

Oh, this is so good.

Like I, I feel like the takeaway for me is if you're a business owner, take some time to codify your expectations.

Boil down to the nitty gritty fine details.

Have patience, lead with love and, and make sure that you take the time, you know, you're during your hiring process.

But also don't, you know, I guess you don't have to like keep people around who don't fit for your in your space.

And it's not about a generation.

It's really about finding the right person.

I do think there's a lot of unspoken communication, non spoken expectations and non spoken communication like you know, kind of thinking that someone, I think we get busy and I think we think that why didn't they do that?

You know, and it's like that those times I feel like when I talk to salon owners and, and other stylists, that's where they get frustrated and they get frustrated first before they explain why and then they're not, they're not being heard because they're already upset.

And so like I do I take my takeaway here.

Big one is like it really comes down to like that preparation you're talking about.

But also having a lot of patience.

You definitely need a lot of patience.

It's another thing that Wynn says, Sit, sit, sit.

You have to continuously reminds them, you know, but again holds people accountable because they'll.

If you're not, you know, allowing them, if you're allowing them to get away with not following your systems, then they're, they're not going to listen to you.

So you have to instill the importance why you have to have a little bit of patience and guide them through it.

And you know, some, some will like he said, some won't.

Somewhat, some will, some won't.

So why it's so the people who will, those are the people that are going to grow.

Those are the people you keep on your team.

Unfortunately the other ones that don't work out, you know, they don't that, that's on them and then you continue and eventually you will find the right person.

And the other way around.

Sorry not to cut you off.

And the other way around is for the students and the future professionals and the new talent out there.

You know, if, if you made it this far in this conversation, then I think that you're probably already ahead of everybody else.

And, and so like, what I would say to you is kind of like to flip the whole thing around is like, it's like it's okay to go somewhere and if it doesn't work out to like, go to another place and take the lessons you learned and take the things that we talked about.

So now you have questions to ask based on listening to this conversation.

And if some, if, if a place isn't really prepared for you and you're not really super excited about being there, then you don't have to work there either.

And, and I have had a number of, of, of new stylists come through my cutting boot camps and, and I've had a multiple of them tell me like the story.

And they were at their second or third salon within like a few years.

And, and which is not weird at all.

I don't know if I don't want it to sound like I'm thinking it's weird, but they would say that they had issues with the owner or a co worker.

And when I continue to talk and ask them the questions about those differences, a lot of the times they kind of say, you know what?

I think a lot of it was.

I just wasn't used to the environment and I had that experience.

And now I, I'm at a place where I love and I've grown since I gotten there.

So, like, this whole idea for, for new talent is like, you're going to learn and it's part of the process until you find that place.

And, and for the salon owners, it's like it goes both ways, I guess is where is all I'm trying to say.

Yeah, definitely.

And I feel.

I'm sorry.

Please.

Diana, would you say.

I know you were about to speak.

I'm saying, please speak.

I was, I was going to say something, but then I'm shutting up.

It's like that's like to do to a career placement.

It's like finding the right fit for the right, you know, the right person for the right environment.

Like, I know what kind of person Frank's looking for an assistant.

Like, I could, you know, basically tell what is going to be be expected of them, like, based off of where they're looking to work.

And then also we like to ask them what, what, what are things that you're looking for in a salon?

What are things you like to specialize in and try to kind of see, like, oh, what area do you live in?

We try to kind of like narrow it down, but at the end of the day, you know, it's up.

It's up to the future professional and then the salon to kind of make that, that relationship.

And, you know, you have to jump in and decide.

You know, it's never, it's never an easy process, the hiring process, that decision.

But, you know, when it feels right, it feels right.

And then, you know, sometimes it works out, sometimes it doesn't.

But like you said, there's.

Oh, you're always going to find that one.

So I like what Frank said, like, don't hire at a desperate, you know, being desperate, just that you need to fill a spot.

You want to hire somebody that's going to add value to the team that you want to invest in.

Because that's another big process is when you're investing in people and then they're not working out.

It's a lot of time that you, you know, also waste yourself.

So really trying to find that right person.

I think it's.

It's hard for everyone, but it's something that.

Having that conversation, letting them know that those expectations ahead of time before they take the job.

So this way, when it doesn't work, what's changed and kind of go from there.

So I want to just.

I'm gonna.

I have one final thought on that.

Measure twice, cut once.

You know, you would.

You wouldn't believe how many times that.

That interview.

I've watched interviews and salons.

When I used to go around the salons and I would teach and sometimes I would be there, I'd spend a couple days there and I'd see them, you know, and I watch these interviews get done and it's like, oh, hold on a second.

You got.

You got a heartbeat.

You look cool, you look even worse.

You look cool.

You got the job, right?

If we spend the right amount of time having a real candidate story and telling them about the culture and who, what the swan is and what we expect, you'd be surprised.

You know, people will open up.

You know, there's an old saying, you know, when someone tells you who they are, believe them.

You can get a real good feel right up front.

And that person, you know, many times I've interviewed people, they'd be like, hey, I'll get a text like a day later.

Thank you so much.

I really appreciate it.

But, you know, I don't think this is going to be a good fit for me.

I'll get those texts and I'm thankful.

And I'm like, I'm like, I might.

Thank you so much.

I really appreciate the fact that you got back to me and you gave you honest with me.

And then sometimes they're sitting in the chair and they're like, where do I sign?

I want in.

I want.

I want all in.

You know, their eyes are lighting up.

Gotta spend the time in the interview.

Gotta do that, and then you gotta do that.

You have to have a good onboarding process.

We talked about the shaking the hand, the icon.

You have to have a good onboarding, and then you have to have these benchmarks.

When you get to that point, you're about to go on the floor.

There's a carrot.

We're not giving you this carrot.

I know you think you earned this carrot, but let me tell you what comes with the.

With this carrot, there's, there's, there's responsibility to have this carrot in your hand.

And then once they're stylist and they're working, working on, working with you, because no one works for you.

Get that out of your head.

That of working for.

No one wakes up and said, you know, I'm gonna make so much money today.

Right.

Everyone works for themselves, whether on salary, commission, combination of both.

And then you just have.

And then.

And then you have to touch base with people.

You have to tell, you, listen, this is where your markers are at.

This is where it is.

Hey, I'm really interested in you making more money.

I know you were talking about buying that new house.

Let's talk about a strategy, how to get there.

You might sound that might.

That might sound so incredibly intrusive, but so what?

Yeah.

Now it shows, like, your growth.

Yeah.

You're invested in them.

Yeah.

So good.

So.

So I feel like this is a great way, great place to sign off and end it.

I think this was a super valuable conversation.

The audience, thank you so much, everyone, for coming and attending, and thank you both for coming on to the show.

Do you all, either one of you have any last words that you'd like to share before we sign off?

I think that this is.

This is like a conversation that has to happen over, like, multiple conversations because there's so many different things that go.

That go into it, but definitely, like, key takeaways are what you put in is what you're going to get out.

Setting the expectations for what you expect for people that you're going to hire, and then the expectations for the future professionals, just teaching them ahead of time what to anticipate so that it's easier for them to make their transition more successful.

So that's kind of where I like to bridge my gap in between.

But I really do believe in the importance of just being.

Being a kind person leading by example.

Like Frank said, you know, they.

They take you more seriously when they see you.

When, you know, when you got your boots on the ground and you're in there, you know, running through the trenches with them as everything's getting crazy in there.

You know, they see what you can handle and you know what it takes.

And you know, the ones that.

The ones that want it, they'll notice.

And those are the people that you have to focus on.

I mean, obviously you want to pour into everyone, but if somebody doesn't want to be poured into, like Frank said, there's nothing that you could do.

Sometimes people don't see their own potential or they're not open to advice.

So I would say focus on the ones that see the value and what your message is and genuinely see that you're really trying to help them be successful.

And those are the people that are going to become, you know, great in the salon and become successful and, you know, no matter what avenue they go.

So being able to see those traits in people is something that's really important for a salon owner.

And honestly, those are things that, like I said, we try to teach, but they're things that most people, if they have them and they're great, they already have them, you know, and you just work on them and exercise them to, you know, keep it as a reminder, you know, to just inspire each other.

But, you know, that's.

That's pretty much it.

People will.

Whatever you.

You put in, that's what you get out.

I feel like success is up to you, and I really believe in making it easier and listening to people like mentors, people like us, trying to get that message out there, because we're just really trying to save you a lot of time and, you know, heartache.

So it's up to the person to, you know, take out of it what it is that you're trying to put in.

So we can only do so much.

So thank you for contributing and for letting me contribute to this conversation.

Absolutely.

Thank you.

How about you, Frank?

Geez, I don't know.

I think Diana said it all.

I mean, she's so eloquent.

My God.

I would.

I would say.

And this is probably a podcast for another time or an Instagram Live.

But as you.

You were saying that, Diana?

I was thinking my experience, people crave, and I call it like the dirty word of, you know, the dirty word.

Discipline is the dirty word.

Right.

But what I've learned is a lot of.

A lot of young, young people, because they haven't had their own homes a lot of times.

I'm just being honest.

That kind of makes sense when you give it to them.

Firm, loving, discipline, guidance with their best interest in place.

You'd be surprised.

They really respond to it.

They actually crave it.

And they'll say things like, you know, this is my family.

That's good.

That's so good.

Awesome.

Structure definitely helps.

Like, you know, as much as they don't really want to hear you, I think they appreciate it that, you know, you're.

You're paying attention and not just letting them do, you know, whatever it is that they want, you know, and, you know, you can't really survive in the chaos, so people do crave that.

You just have to, you know, rejoin them.

You've seen.

You've seen me out of balance.

I'm a lot better these days, Diana.

Well, I worked for Frank for many years, so you could tell I know what's expected and I'm a hard worker and, like, you know.

Totally.

Yeah.

Well, this has been such a pleasure.

Thank you so much for joining and thank you to all of our audience members.

And we will definitely have to do a part two continuation of this conversation.

This was really good one, so thank you so much and you all have a wonderful evening.

Thank you.

Bye.

Bye.

See you.

Bye.