Stars on Sports Intro: It's time for Stars on Sports! A podcast-radio show dedicated to sharing stories about our athletic program at Lansing Community College. LCC athletics has a strong tradition. 24 national championship wins! Over 170 All-Americans! 19 MCCAA All Sports trophies! Stars on Sports will introduce you to individuals that have contributed to our program success and give you the backstory on what it takes to develop it. We'll also dive into and break down the topics and issues facing athletic departments across the nation and right here at LCC. This is Stars on Sports!

Hello and welcome to another episode of Stars on Sports. I am joined by our assistant AD Steven Cutter and our producer, Jereny Robinson. And gentlemen, today we're going to be talking about end of game environments. And you know, we've talked a lot about March Madness on this podcast. And as we record this episode, March Madness is over. One part of March Madness, actually, the weather's been better too.

April showers at this point.

Yeah. So that's April Madness. But you know, and during that tournament, you know, a lot of great games and you know, summary of sports in general. But in one of the women's game at the, at the end of the game there was a questionable call and it just consumed social media and the sports world for it still, you know, many days later, still consuming it. And it was very interesting conversation that, you know, I've dealt with in my career and I'm sure both of you have in your sports moments of. And I'm not here to, you know, I respect officiating, I appreciate officiating, I'm thankful for officiating, that they're the one group I try and take care of the most at games to make sure they feel welcome at LCC. So in no way. But the bigger conversation is not the officiating. But you know, people argue about should things loosen up at the end of the game, should they call differently at the end of the game. And a lot of examples in different sports regarding this. So in this particular moment, there was an illegal screen in a women's basketball game that was called with, you know, very few time left. And one side of the fan base thinks it impacted their chances of winning and the other side of the fan base think that it needed to be called because it was a foul and a disadvantage and you know, slow motion instant replay, we can get into that. So the disappointing thing for me is it, it took away from a great basketball game. It was, you know, a night of great basketball game. And that's again part of the thing that led to this conversation, and so many people we're watching it.

That's what makes it great, though, too. If you think back just like maybe a couple years ago when Jordan pushed off in the Utah game and hit the game winner, you know, that somewhat feeds into the story a little bit.

This conversation is going to go so far. That is one of the top moments. And even in this particular game, one of the participants involved, the other fan base showed the play 10 minutes earlier where she pushed off to get a basket. So, I mean, it goes back to that. Yeah, it goes back to a lot of calls in that game impact the game. We focus on the end of the ones because, I mean, I don't know why, because I guess they think that impacts the score at the most, and maybe if it's a bad call early in the game, you have time to overcome it. But, you know, one of my favorite coaches always said, don't put yourself in that position at the end of the game. You know, try and put the game away before that happened. And actually, the one lady on the team that got called for foul, she had an excellent argument that she made mistakes in that game that led to them being in that situation where that foul meant more. She had a great answer. And I actually like the coach, and he was more upset than I thought he would because he has a lot of good press conferences. But again, there was a lot on the line. A championship appearance was on that. But in looking back in sports history, you're fun. That's funny. Michael Jordan push off is one of those top ones in history. The Lions just had one recently with a substitution issue at the end of a game that was impactful. And it's interesting, you go back and look, and I'm sure we've all been impacted by calls throughout the game, and I think officials get under scrutiny. We were talking before the podcast started about, you know, you just want consistency from an official. You just want the calls that average out. And, you know, you want officials to, you know, be able to reflect and know, I mean, they have bad games, we all have bad games. You know, we all make mistakes during a game. That's what I try and tell fans when they start yelling is, no one's perfect out there. And you challenged me with a notion I'd like you to follow up on is that the notion is if you don't notice the official, they usually do a good game, that they're not bringing attention to them. And then we've seen certain officials throughout history that, oh, they're officiating Tonight. We know that they're officiating tonight, but the best ones seem to not go notice during the game. But you alluded to before the podcast that they are noticed. They are part of the game, an important part of the game.

Integral part of the game.

Yeah, and you don't want them to be. One of the best things I heard an assigner tell official is call the game as it flows. Don't call the game the way you want it to call it or the way the teams wanted to call it, because every game is differently. And again, we all bring something to the game that the, you know, the officials, you know, have certain, I mean, you know, officials, well, like they got a large strike zone or they don't have a strike zone or, you know, they call box. And so every official has tendencies, but the best ones try and, you know, be open and just do their best as the game plays on.

I think it's harder in sports like baseball, because baseball's a little bit slower of a game and you've got, you know, seven to 20 seconds between pitches. And officials sometimes lose the consistency because of that. And they, they kind of start getting lost in the moments. And you see the lack of consistency coming out where maybe the bucks aren't being called because they're just not paying attention. The same way a player isn't ready for a ground ball to come at them at third base just because they weren't on time. It's the same thing. And so you're trying to look for the least amount of bias as possible from the officials. And the bias can come from the head coach of a team, a yelling at them all the time. Well, immediately they start getting a little defensive. And usually what you see most consistently is all of a sudden the other team starts getting calls, the strike zones change, things like that. That's, you know, so you're looking for the least amount of bias and you're looking for consistency. It doesn't matter what the score is, doesn't matter if it's the end of the game or the first pitch or the first 10 seconds of a game. Just be consistent. And I think we all struggle with being consistent. So, you know, they're, they're human and they might have bad games. And now we have reviews and we even have them at the junior college level. You can't, you know, use them in game, but we can go back and look and we track all that stuff. And it's wild to see our umpires have really good games and have really bad games. They Just don't get the feedback at our level, at the high school level, at our level that they do at the professional level, or even at the Division 1 level, where they're reviewing almost everything at this point. And you're calling out and everybody's freaking out, and you're like, no, that person is out. And they go to review and the person's safe by a half a step, and you're like, oh, okay, well, I guess I was wrong, right? Most officials aren't getting that at the lower levels. So how do you. How do you actually grow from that? You know, if you go over four, you with four punch out or four strikeouts, you know, like, it wasn't a real good day picking up the ball out of the hand.

And I think technology is helping with that. And unfortunately, we don't have it at our level yet. Although in volleyball, there are schools that have a review system for calls. You know, I think it's like $11,000 camera system and replace it. And they use it at the national tournament, which I think we're progressing that way. And as I told you, I've had a couple officials ask more this year than ever ask if they could get a tape of the game when they're done. So I'm hoping that is a trend.

It's juco. I could see the officials going into the stands and asking parents for their iPhones to take a look at that last play. So, yeah, yeah.

And iPhone. The technology has changed so much of the game. You know, a couple years ago in the NFC championship, I think it was the Rams and Saint, there was a pass interference call that wasn't made and it cost, I want to say, the Saint, the game. So the next year they implement that you can challenge pass interference. And it didn't go well. So the following year, they went back and said, no, you know, we're not going there. I mean, and again, most of that middle year, most, they weren't overturning the call to pass interference. So I argue, I struggle with instant replay a little bit. And I've shared before is the one that gets me the most is at the end of a basketball game when I'm holding the ball and you hit it out of my hand, but we're breaking it down to see if it hit my finger last, even though the intent was you hit the ball out of my hand, but you get the ball, because we have technology now that can break that down. So that frustrates me, but that's how far technology has gone. And even, you know, as you mentioned, having it on the sidelines now and being able to not do much with it during the game, but it still helps you stat wise understand the flow of the game. And the other thing you mentioned that I'd like to hit on too is, is the pressure that officials could feel during the game. And in some sports, coaches are pretty man animated on sidelines, which disappoints me. And I know a coach's job is to advocate for their team, but I'm hoping the best official learn to not let that influence them. But we both have seen in history

that how could it not.

Yeah, I mean, you don't want to deal with it, so you try and appease or appeal it a little bit.

And if you get, I mean, I think anybody has somebody yelling at them, how, how do, how do you, I mean you can be pretty mentally tough and block a lot of that out, but for the most part, how does that not affect you?

Right, you're going to be affected. Yeah. No one wants to be yelled at.

And so you want, you want the, the unbiased stuff to happen in the games. But then when you're overreacting on every little thing, I mean, you're, you're actually hurting yourself, hurting your team and other things like that. And it's not my stance to say you shouldn't show emotion or anything else, but there are times in place and you're still dealing with human beings. And most, most, you know, if players are struggling, yelling at them isn't going to help because they already knew what they did wrong. For the most part, they already, they already know like the ball went between their legs, they already know it went between their legs and they know they weren't, they didn't stay down on it, you know, those kind of stuff. So yelling at them really doesn't help. But talking to him, you know, much after the fact of, you know, we got to, you know, that ball hops, that ball hits the ground one time, we've got to be staying, stay down, stay down, stay down so that it's not. In baseball, the majority of the balls at, at the, you know, younger levels and lower levels are going between players legs. So if they're going between your legs, what's happening there, you're not staying down.

Right.

And so that's kind of how that looks.

And I think that's a great point. And you know, even how coaches should approach it because like if, if an official misses a legal screen three times in a row, I think it's the coach's job to remind the, the official that hey, I think we're, you know, we're getting or somebody over in the

back in the lane or whatever, you know, consistently. Yeah, I think the reminders are good. It's, it's the harder part is those illegal screens that you're talking about, the bang bang plays that at home or at first base, those are the ones really, really tough.

Yep. And there and again, back to your point earlier though is hopefully they're 50, 50 in those because yeah, the easy ones are when the, when the ball, you know, in the dirt and goes past the catcher. That's a pretty easy call for the official to make that that's a ball unless they missed it. But then you could be able to, you know, check that. But then it those close ones on the corner that are at the knees or at the chest. And the same with that, you know, close play at first base where the ball and the foot get there almost at the same time that, you know, you just want consistency from official. The disappointing thing for me is how much scrutiny officials are under and you know, they take a lot and I think it's hurting the supply part of that, that their mistakes are much more

publicized than it funnels downhill. I think the players are under a ton of scrutiny as well. And so it just, it keeps funneling down and that's part of sports. And being able to block that stuff out, block out the noise and be mentally tough is very, very important. Whether you're an official, you're a coach, you're a player, it's enormous.

Yep. And you have to block it. I always use the analogy, like in high school education, teachers are in classroom giving tests, but there's no parents in there yelling at him, he needs to be in algebra, he needs to be in algebra. But we have that, as you mentioned, players under scrutiny at athletic events. And I always joke, you know, you have people that behind the scenes running the scoreboard, doing the announcing, maybe keeping stats. And the person that gets yelled at the most is the person that's doing the scoreboard. Because everybody sees what they are doing. You know, they don't always hear the announcer, they don't always see the stats. But until after the game, which is an issue I deal with. That's a lot at all our levels. But it's just funny if the scoreboard forgets to start the clock or if they don't get a run up there soon enough, how many people are, are trying to correct them right away. So the nature of our business We've signed up for it. It's a very positive thing. Just like back to this women's basketball game. You know, the. How exciting it was and how much of a following they. They have received that can build their sport. That has a lot of people talking about it. It's just. I just felt a little disappointed that more people were talking about the screen than the actual. The game itself, which was a great basketball game. So was it. Have you seen the play? Was it an illegal screen?

I do. It was. I did watch some of that game. And I think it's. It's what makes those games great, you know, is the controversy piece of it. It feeds into it. It adds to the excitement of it. There's more people that are upset about it. There's more people that are pointing and say that, you know, that's a credible call. If nothing happens there, it's still a great game. But part of it is the stress and the calls and everything else that feed into really great games. Yeah.

And that call, you know, whether you agree with it or not. And it led to that discussion of should it been called that late in the game. And I'm a believer that if it's a. If it's a foul, it should be called throughout the game. And just like, you know, I like hockey. I like the physicalness of hockey. And there's a lot of people believe that in the third period or overtime, the officials aren't calling anything because they don't want to impact the game. I disagree. I think they call the most egregious ones. And I also think the teams are also trying not to have penalties in those high moments. A neat conversation we had, I had with our softball coach with actually. On the illegal screenplay. And I think we're all basketball people in here. Some of that fault is on the person that's getting the screen because they didn't go. Kids aren't going. There's been a lot more legal screens today because kids aren't. I used to learn to rub the shoulder so that you had to run the person through you where in this particular case, the young lady had to move because the screener wasn't close enough to her. That. So, you know, there's more than one person you can blame the screener. But some would argue that the person that was getting the screen needed to be closer to run the person through it.

Yeah, she was late on the play. That's just what it come down to it like. Cause a lot of times point guards, you have to be patient when setting up the screen. But. Cause the intensity of the moment, she moved a lot faster. So she had to adjust real quick. And coach cut. You kind of humbled me. I was very biased on my opinion. Cause I like to see an ending of somebody shooting in 3, 2, 1, and seeing if it goes in. But honestly, if I was on the other team, I would want that call to be called and be fair. But, you know, that's it.

That's what we forget. Because it was called that. If the other. If they don't call it and the young lady gets a wide open three and makes it win the game, then you got the other team mad for not calling it.

Yeah.

And I disagree with you a little journey, because I still believe she could have come closer to the lady setting this. Yeah, she kind of faded out. And actually, you know, that's when you're supposed to slip through. But again, that's why we're having this. The conversation is all those perspectives and feedback.

It's the beauty of sports or the frustration of sports.

So again, I'm not here to bash officials. I am thankful for them, and they're human and make mistakes. And I'm glad that we're talking about this because women's basketball, it was an exciting year for college basketball. We had an exciting year here at LCC that generated a lot of discussion and a lot of positive reflection on our college. And I know that it's just a start, a foundation for the future for our women's basketball program. As you know, we're just, you know, receiving accolades from the season we just had that are on par with a lot of our other teams. You know, with All American status. As we talked about, we had a young lady that was just recently named All American. And we'll have to go back and see. It's been a while since we had one in women's basketball, but, you know, that increases our number again this year. We've had a lot of sports that have had. Almost every sport, I think, have had a representation on All American teams, which it just speaks volume for our coaching staff, the hard work our student athletes are doing. And I was trying to think, you know, here at LCC in my three years, have I remembered a call at the end of the game that impacted one of our teams. And I don't really have one. So I'm thankful for that. I mean, I think there are some close ones in basketball. And do you. Have you had any in baseball since you been here?

I think there's a ton of calls it's just what you preface as the end of the game. I think the calls in the beginning of the game are just as important as the end of the game. And I think there's a lot of them that happen overall, I think they're really close calls. You're just looking for the officials to get 50% of them. Right. And that's the equality of a 50 50. And that's what you're hoping for because you're hoping the same for your players to be able to do the same. And, and that's as I've said, you know, a couple times, that's the beauty of sports.

And I agree with you. I think every call is considered equal inconsistent. It just, we get caught up at the end of the game because at the last one, remember, supposedly it matters more.

Right?

It does, supposedly. But I agree with you too that, you know, if it called earlier in the game that mattered that lead to that possession at the end of the game. It's just those are the ones we remember. And as an administrator, those are the ones we usually deal with are the ones at the end of the game. Whether the crowd, you know, being mad and you got to protect people or, you know, it could lead to animosity between the two teams. So just the end of the game activities are things that heighten our awareness on event management. So where it happens in the first half, most people forget because probably there was another one after that that they remember or don't remember.

I don't forget. Cause if a coach, like if the game is going and they're very physical, the whole game, like the whole game, they're physical. Then at the end of the game you want to call a ticky tack. That hurts my feelings.

Like, so it still comes down to consistency.

Yeah, consistent. Like be consistent. Like if you're going to let them play, let him play. But if you're going to call it tight, call it tight.

And that's a great point, Jereny, because I always err on the other side is like forget. You know, one of my favorite Ted Lasso lessons is be a goldfish, remember for 10 seconds and then move on. Some things you'd only remember like for second, move on. But it also leads into how you handle the end of the game is what happened throughout that game and those

tendencies and it still depends on the person. So some people do really well with not moving on. They use that as a driver and they remember. And you know, Jereny, you brought up. I do not forget. And so sometimes not forgetting is a really good thing, because you can use that as internal motivation and to drive you for whatever it might be. And sometimes forgetting is. Some people just need to forget and move on.

It's a time to forget. But I think the flow of the game, you're saying the expectation as a player, like you said, the expectation for how the game's flowing. So then I feel like, okay, I've been doing this. So I do the same thing that I've been doing, and then I get penalized for it. And that hurts.

Oh, that's what you got to remember in that low tendency. So I agree with you. I tend to forget. But I like your. Both your ideas about not forgetting. For one, is knowing what. What they're. What they're calling. And two, using it as motivation to overcome. You know, the. The common theme nowadays is your team versus everybody. Like if you get slighted or shorted. Yeah.

Detroit.

So, but any other discussion on. On that, I'm. I like to end it with, you know, one of our topics, and I had a couple of ones, but I've listened to another podcast and it generated great discussion. So I'm going to do it here. It's Easter candy. I don't know if you two are big Easter candy people.

I like Easter candy, but I want

to know what's your favorite? Well, if you. If you're basking on Easter morning, what. What's your go to Easter candy? And what's one you don't want to see in there?

Okay. So for me, the best thing that was ever created is starburst jelly beans.

Oh, yeah, that was one of the podcast persons.

Yeah, they. I don't know they didn't make something special with that. Whatever they create. Then they got tropical version of it, too. That's even better. I still love. Since a kid. I love Peeps. I still like the little marshmallow ducks.

Okay, that. That's an interesting. Actually, my question was, do you like Peeps or not like Peeps? Because that seems to be a polarizing. Polarized.

It depends on the color. The pink ones don't taste good, but the yellow ones is good.

Okay.

Okay.

What about you? That's pretty solid. I love Easter Coke, so I love soda. And drinking Coke on Easter is excellent. So that's the first one. Number two is the peanut butter eggs. The Reese's peanut butter eggs.

You guys are my friends. You guys are my friends.

So if you can mix that with a Coke, that's a. That's a good Easter right there.

I agree with you, coach. I Like soda too, but I like the, the like sugar of coke on Easter. I give a pop for Lent too. So usually that Easter pop is like

pumping me up and I'm about to try that.

So I'm a peeps guy too. I got three different flavors for Easter this year. Like a Slurpee blue, the traditional yellow, and a cotton candy pink, I think so. I like Easter candy, but I love Reese's peanut butter egg. That would be one of my favorite. I like the little Hershey footballs. That would be one of my favorite. I like jelly beans. I'm not big on Cadbury eggs.

Yeah.

You know, I'm not big on coconut stuff. As I mentioned before, in our family, there seems to be a rhythm. We kind of buy the same every year because, you know, there's four or

five favorites candy in the studio too.

Yeah, we got.

We gotta set that up.

That's right. Now. Are you a peeps guy, coach? Not at all.

You don't like. Do you like marshmallows?

I really don't like candy at all.

Okay.

For the most part, yeah.

Okay. But. But you. But you. Reese's peanut butter cups.

Those are pretty good.

Yeah. Chocolate and peanut butter are the. Nice conversation. What about your kids? Do they. Are they similar to you?

Because it's interesting because I was thinking about it and my wife and I were driving home not too long ago and she was talking about how, like how this first year not doing an Easter egg hunt and you know, basically forever. But I was starting to think about some of those Easter egg hunts that we had. And yes, some of the eggs that were hidden had candy in them, but a lot more had money and gift cards and different things in them. So it's definitely changed a little bit.

It has. And we thought, you know, this podcast talked about the plastic eggs with things in them or, you know, we used to. This was the first year we didn't colored hard boiled eggs and color them and for a long time and just time. But Easter is, you know, whatever to different people. But it is a big candy holiday. Like Halloween, but separate. Because I don't, you know, candy bars are Halloween. Easter has like, the jelly beans are an Easter candy. The east, you know, you can get Reese's peanut cups all year. But the egg ones I like even better are, you know, Easter specific. But peeps seem to be a polarizing. I think we win 2 to 1 with peeps that they are something. He asked you a good question. Do you like marshmallows in general? Do you like s' mores.

Not really.

Okay, that's interesting, because there are people that don't like marshmallows, and obviously you don't like marshmallows. You're not gonna like peeps. So, yeah, I thought it'd generate some conversations.

That was good. So good stuff.

Way to end our podcast. And as always, go Stars.

Stars on Sports Outro: Stars on Sports is recorded live at the WLNZ studios. Engineering and production assistance are provided by Daedalian Lowry. You can listen to this episode and other episodes of Stars on Sports on demand at LCCconnect.org to find more information about our athletic program, visit LCCstars.com thanks for listening. Go Stars!