Intro: Hey folks, it's Marvin Cash, the host of The Articulate Fly.

Intro: On this episode, artist, inventor, and now author Brian Hester returns to the podcast.

Intro: Brian updates us on his work at the easel, his collaborations with Jam Up and

Intro: Mothbear, and his latest project, She Talks to Fish.

Intro: I think you're really going to enjoy this one, but before we get to the interview,

Intro: just a couple of housekeeping items. If you like the podcast,

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Intro: Now, on to our interview.

Marvin: Well, Brian, welcome back to the Articulate Fly.

Brian: Thank you, Marvin, for having me. I appreciate it.

Marvin: Yeah, man, I'm looking forward to the conversation. You know, it's kind of funny.

Marvin: I looked at the archives, and I was surprised to see that you were on season

Marvin: one, episode 19, which has been about five and a half years ago.

Marvin: And, you know, not like we haven't seen each other a bunch kind of in that intervening time.

Marvin: But, you know, for our listeners, you know, you're in perpetual motion.

Marvin: I was kind of curious, you know, I think back then, you know,

Marvin: you were, you know, putting artwork in Boone and Banner Elk and places like that.

Marvin: But I was kind of curious, you know, you know, what's your artist journey been

Marvin: like, you know, over the last few years in terms of, you know,

Marvin: any new themes, materials, influences, any good stuff like that?

Brian: Well, it's really cool. I've still been behind the easel.

Brian: And that part of my background and that part of my charge is never going to leave me.

Brian: But I did actually set the paintbrushes down for a little bit while I was tinkering

Brian: with a few other really, really cool things.

Brian: And as you know, maybe some of the listeners know that I do have a visual arts background.

Brian: I am a painter. You know, the background actually started drawing,

Brian: illustrating, painting.

Brian: And I even dabbled a little bit in industrial design stuff coming out of college.

Brian: It's just been in the back of my mind. So some really, really cool things were materializing.

Brian: I was doing a lot of stuff with tactile stuff, building, doing stuff with magnets,

Brian: trying to help myself out.

Brian: All of this stuff has a common thread of fly fishing that I play with from the

Brian: stuff that I invent and my paintings,

Brian: which are still constant, and a book that I just wrote.

Brian: And also some apparel that I've just been able to put out. So it's been a lot of fun.

Marvin: Yeah, we're gonna get to all that. I know that one outgrowth of all that is

Marvin: you've got a partnership with JamUp Apparel.

Marvin: And I was kind of curious if you could tell us a little bit about those guys,

Marvin: kind of how you found each other, why you thought it was a good fit for what

Marvin: you're trying to create.

Brian: Because I'm behind the canvas so much, I'm always doing some really,

Brian: like what I think are really innovative kind of new looks to my passion, which is fly fishing.

Brian: I do a lot of stuff with inversion and substitution.

Brian: And it kind of materialized to the point where I was like, man,

Brian: this would be just really, really cool on some hoodies.

Brian: I thought it would be really, really cool on some shorts. I thought it'd be really, really cool.

Brian: I mean, on a golf bag, I thought it would be cool on a bunch of stuff.

Brian: And I was looking for a company that was out there that actually did stuff with fishing.

Brian: And I think it was September of last year, I stumbled across Jam Up Apparel.

Brian: And they're out of Spokane, Washington.

Brian: And they basically brought me in with open arms.

Brian: It was a lot of fun. I reached out with them. I did show them a bunch of my

Brian: designs and my thoughts about its application, what it could be used for.

Brian: And then all of a sudden started tinkering a little bit more with some of the

Brian: fish skin designs that I was doing.

Brian: And then bingo, bingo, we started some really, really cool looking hoodies.

Brian: I've got a couple of brown trout or a brown trout design.

Brian: I've got a brookie design. I've got a couple of rainbow designs on the website.

Brian: Site. So, and again, it's a jam up apparel.

Brian: So if people wanted to go take a look.

Marvin: Yeah, no, and I'll, I'll get all that stuff and drop that stuff in the show notes for you.

Marvin: But, you know, it's interesting because I've seen some of the hoodies and I

Marvin: guess a couple things that I was kind of struck by was one, you know,

Marvin: not only do you have the design, but you also have the texture that's in the fabric.

Brian: Yes. And their fabric is actually a patented fabric that they have.

Brian: SPF 50, these hoodies that they build are fantastic.

Brian: And with the designs of the, like, for example, the rainbow trout skin, it's not loud.

Brian: Loud uh i don't want

Brian: to say loud um it's attention getting and

Brian: it sends a message to anybody you know looking that they're like what what is

Brian: that that oh and then then a conversation comes out of it oh i fly fish i love

Brian: you know fishing uh for rainbow trout brown trout brookies uh anything.

Brian: And I've got a bass design that's on there as well.

Brian: The sleeves are emulative of,

Brian: Those, those fish, it's fantastic. New, new, good looking stuff.

Marvin: Yeah. I think it's neat too that, um, you know, I like the fact that they're two ply, right?

Marvin: So, um, you know, that there's a little bit more substance to them than,

Marvin: you know, a lot of hoodies.

Marvin: I mean, sometimes maybe if it's really, really hot, that doesn't work,

Marvin: but you know, if we're just kind of kicking around, um, I thought that was really good.

Marvin: Cause you know, some of those hoodies kind of look like you were,

Marvin: they were kind of spray painted on you. You know what I mean?

Brian: Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. They're sweat-wicking, breathable.

Brian: They're light enough that you don't feel like you're completely going to have

Brian: heat stroke. They are fantastic.

Brian: And I've fished at them already, you know, 10 times. Just, they're awesome. Love them.

Marvin: Yeah, and it's interesting too, right, because you touched on this kind of as

Marvin: we were getting started that, you know, you're also, you know,

Marvin: people know you as kind of, you know, Hester, the art teacher at Myers Park

Marvin: High School, but you're this kind of tinkering inventor, right?

Marvin: And you seem to kind of be in perpetual motion.

Marvin: And, you know, I was kind of curious, you know, have you always been like that,

Marvin: kind of trying to figure out better ways to do things, or is that something

Marvin: you kind of found kind of later on?

Brian: Well it's i my brain is

Brian: firing all the time my brain

Brian: is a thousand miles an hour and i'm always looking

Brian: for that next thing what what is it that's going to be uh special about you

Brian: know the industry uh the fly fishing industry and when i was tinkering this

Brian: this probably started back in And right around 2014,

Brian: 2015, when I was trying to figure out a magnetic system to carry my fly rods

Brian: on my truck and also any other SUV or any other regular car,

Brian: I kind of stumbled onto some really,

Brian: really cool ways to interchange and utilize the magnetic system so that you

Brian: could everything kind of fed on itself.

Brian: And then all of a sudden, that tinkering with the rod carrier kind of materialized

Brian: into new ways to carry my flies on my person.

Brian: I can carry it on my cap, I can carry it on my chest, I can carry it on my ship, I can carry it anywhere.

Brian: And that system also works with everything that you would end up doing with the truck too.

Brian: So, and I found...

Brian: It was about three years ago. I was looking for a company just to hear me out,

Brian: just to see what I've done.

Brian: If I had to sign NDAs, I would. And I really wanted them to see this design.

Brian: And I spoke to a lot of people. I mean, a lot of people.

Brian: And then all of a sudden, I found this company that was brand new.

Brian: And I found them in July. And then we started talking again,

Brian: oddly enough, about August, September timeframe.

Brian: The guy's name is Tyler Wotuski, and he owns Moth Bear.

Brian: And he wants to innovate in the industry.

Brian: He wants to actually be at the front, i.e. he wants to be chased instead of

Brian: trying to chase. He creates boat bags.

Brian: He created a fantastic chest pack system, all utilizing aspects of the magnetic stuff that I had done.

Brian: And then we started working together. He's got an engineering background,

Brian: which made things even more perfect based upon working together.

Brian: Other and that it was like a perfect storm it

Brian: was like it couldn't have been any better by means

Brian: of having my jacked up brain that's always conceptually

Brian: always way out there and he would always reel it back

Brian: in and talk about the engineering component and then i was really pretty good

Brian: about the industrial design aspect where i would end up trying to remove human

Brian: error so that when you bring a product to market or when you're putting a product out there,

Brian: that it's going to be flawless, that it's going to work fantastic.

Brian: And it was just, it's been awesome being able to work with them.

Brian: I've been blessed in terms of, or I've been lucky as well in terms of finding

Brian: really, really good people, honest people that want to do some moving and shaking

Brian: in the fly fishing industry.

Marvin: Got it. And, you know, kind of curious, I mean, there are plenty of,

Marvin: you know, pack and, you know, doodad manufacturers and fly fishing,

Marvin: you know, what is it that sets Mothbear apart?

Marvin: I mean, what's their different approach from like Omqua, Fishpond,

Marvin: Sims, you know, all those guys?

Brian: It's soup to nuts. We actually, we, we build out, we, we physically build the product.

Brian: Um, and, and then we, we, we analyze the product after we've done the design

Brian: work, uh, to make sure that things are appropriated.

Brian: Things are actually where they're supposed to be.

Brian: And so that they're easy access to, uh, anglers left-handed, right-handed.

Brian: Um, and one thing in particular, like I, that I was talking about with the,

Brian: uh, uh, we, we invented a magnetic fly box that, that, that will go on anything, anywhere.

Brian: It it's spectacular. And it's like a anytime box, you can load it and it's deep

Brian: enough to hold, you know, high hackle on, on dries and it's shallow enough to,

Brian: uh, to, to hold like a ton of nips.

Brian: So you can, you can be with one little fly box,

Brian: put that, or three or four of those little fly boxes, put them all over your

Brian: person without carrying a chest pack, carrying all sorts of other stuff around

Brian: where you can, you know, I do a lot of rock hopping when I'm on the river.

Brian: I do a lot of, you know, maneuvering up the river and, uh, I don't like stuff,

Brian: thinking stuff would fall off.

Brian: Moth uh this system is fantastic it works magnificent so i hope uh everybody

Brian: gets a chance to just go look at the magnetic fly box that moth bear has same.

Marvin: Yeah and so just to i would want to kind of back up

Marvin: a little bit though because i want to kind of you know understand like

Marvin: i know you're kind of like um you're like a

Marvin: creative tasmanian devil right yeah yeah

Marvin: brain's always working yeah i would maybe you

Marvin: know maybe a quaalude or two every now and again might not be a bad thing calm

Marvin: it down um but uh i was just kind of curious about like let's i want to kind

Marvin: of think about like the tinkering and the inventing kind of in in kind of the

Marvin: context of your broader kind of creativity right is it just another kind of

Marvin: spoke on the hester wheel

Marvin: or kind of how does it integrate with kind of how you think as a visual artist.

Brian: It is. It's all about, like, if I'm building a composition on campus,

Brian: that's my process within my design, my point of view.

Brian: And point of view has the physical and the metaphysical.

Brian: For example, I can physically see something in its depth of field or its point

Brian: of view, i.e., that I'm thinking about something a certain way,

Brian: its perspective. So, I'm always composing.

Brian: When you're composing, you're still designing.

Brian: The same thing with the tinkering. How does the design look?

Brian: Is the design, you know, is it sexy?

Brian: Does it look great for the consumer out on the shelf? You know,

Brian: how is it presented and how does it look in its final state?

Brian: So I'm always working in that, that, that, that phase, that realm inside that,

Brian: that, I guess that space, so to speak.

Brian: I want things to, to look good.

Brian: So that's what's up.

Marvin: There you go. Well, you know, and if it wasn't enough, you kind of touched on

Marvin: this, um, almost stole a little bit of my thunder. Or, you know,

Marvin: you are, I don't know, within, you know, what, a week, a week or two weeks of

Marvin: dropping your first novel, She Talks to Fish.

Marvin: And, you know, that's kind of pretty crazy from kind of, you know,

Marvin: you got a full-time gig, plus you got all this other stuff going on.

Marvin: But, you know, I was really kind of curious, you know, what's the,

Marvin: what was the genesis of the project?

Brian: That's a great question. The genesis of the project actually started 10 years

Brian: ago when I initiated and built a club at the high school where I teach, Myers Park High School.

Brian: And I wanted to introduce young people to fly fishing.

Brian: And I initially, when I started the program, there were a lot of young young people involved.

Brian: And I thought that this is great. This is just fantastic.

Brian: I'm going to be able to kind of, you know, pay this forward,

Brian: show all these young people,

Brian: this beautiful thing, fly fishing, and introduce this to them so that they can

Brian: enjoy, they can find maybe something in this that I found growing up,

Brian: which was just amazing for me.

Brian: Then the membership kept growing, and it was just young white kids.

Brian: And I was like, well, this fly fishing thing is for everyone.

Brian: It's literally for everyone.

Brian: And I look at fly fishing to be, for me personally, the world's greatest equalizer.

Brian: Because fly fishing doesn't care about anything.

Brian: Doesn't care about your political views, doesn't care about your culture,

Brian: doesn't care about how tall you are, how skinny, gender, gender associations, anything.

Brian: It doesn't care. But what it demands is your attitude and your effort if you

Brian: want to succeed at it, if you want to involve yourself with it.

Brian: And those lessons that I've learned from fly fishing, if I could actually give

Brian: that to the kids, that was the biggest plug.

Brian: Well, fast forward, I started to get a lot of young women involved with fly fishing.

Brian: And then my charge became to get more young women of color fly fishing.

Brian: And then all of a sudden, more young women started holding seats in the organization

Brian: that I had as far as president, vice president, secretary,

Brian: treasurer, and they became more involved.

Brian: And when you start talking about beautiful stuff like this, when young people

Brian: are involved and other young people are like, what are you doing?

Brian: Well, I'm in a fly fishing club. you ought to come try

Brian: it and then they let their guard down a

Brian: little bit and then they come out and try it and then all of a sudden it just

Brian: starts to there's a swelling so to speak um and beautiful things happen from

Brian: that and that's that's the inspiration for you know my my journey in in getting

Brian: getting things started with this uh with the novel yeah.

Marvin: I mean so when did you have the kind of the light bulb moment,

Marvin: hey, I wanna write a novel about this?

Brian: It started as a story. And in my brain, I'm thinking,

Brian: this is a cool story. And because, again, I'm always creating,

Brian: I was like, this is a really, really awesome story.

Brian: I even ran it by my wife, and she's like, this is really an incredibly cool

Brian: story. So I thought, I don't know.

Brian: I just took a shot in the dark. I called my cousin, and she's a screenwriter,

Brian: and she's a three-time author, and she's an English teacher.

Brian: And she took the story and helped me put it in a script form.

Brian: And then I started sending out, sending to different production companies and

Brian: then also some studios to see if I could get some bites on unsolicited scripts.

Brian: And didn't get anything.

Brian: Nothing happened. Nothing happened. And so I just kind of tabled everything

Brian: for, you know, two and a half years, almost three years.

Brian: And then I had this epiphany. I was like, well, this story is so good.

Brian: It's a really solid story. It's like a tree.

Brian: I'm going to go ahead and put the leaves on the tree and then put the ornaments on the tree.

Brian: Um so i just started writing

Brian: so i called my cousin again she said

Brian: absolutely not i'm not doing it

Brian: and then reluctantly i wore down enough

Brian: and then she finally bought in and um and here we are legitimately i think it's

Brian: like four years later it was all the way through covid or at least in the initial

Brian: phases of covid all the way to right now in terms of finishing this beautiful story Yeah.

Marvin: That's pretty neat. And so give us a brief overview of the novel.

Brian: It's about my main character. Her name is Maya Jones.

Brian: She's a young African-American female that grows up in Boone,

Brian: set in the mid to late 80s.

Brian: So if you were a woman fly fishing in the 80s, you were, I mean,

Brian: that was a bit of a rarity. But if you were black and fly fishing in the 80s,

Brian: you're kind of like a unicorn almost.

Brian: So I wanted to authenticate it that way where I was able to be at the front.

Brian: I wanted this to be something that was new and innovative and incredibly creative

Brian: where people could actually go, wow, this is absolutely brand new.

Brian: I've never heard of anything like this. This story is fantastic.

Brian: And Maya Jones actually encounters and defies everything from stereotypes,

Brian: bigotry, defies nature and weather, defies death with immeasurable perseverance.

Brian: Perseverance and um i just felt as though that the story with with all the young

Brian: women that i had in my club um it it was it was it was time to actually say

Brian: okay um you know you know melanin shouldn't be.

Brian: Something to inhibit an opportunity.

Brian: And I want the world to be able to see the beauty of what this young woman,

Brian: my main character, Maya Jones, encounters,

Brian: perseveres through, and then ultimately how they end the book,

Brian: kind of how things culminate. It's just spectacular.

Brian: I don't want to give any more away. I just want people to put their hands on

Brian: the book and give it a read. And it's a true book, Marvin.

Brian: It's a true book about fly fishing.

Brian: Yes, it's a fiction novel, but it's a true book about fly fishing.

Brian: And if you're an angler and you read it, it'll resonate with you.

Brian: And even if you're not an angler, you don't care anything about fly fishing. It'll resonate.

Brian: It's inspiring, empowering, powering and you'll leave knowing and feeling like

Brian: you belong in any scenario. It's fantastic.

Marvin: Yeah. And it's interesting. I mean, you know, so, you know, you are not female and African American.

Marvin: So I'm kind of curious, you know, how did you feel comfortable that you could

Marvin: tell Maya's story authentically and respectfully?

Brian: I knew being a white author with a young black narrative that grows up,

Brian: I knew that that probably would end up being a bit of a hurdle. But.

Brian: I also felt as though that the story has never been told.

Brian: It's never been... Let me go back.

Brian: I knew, again, like I said, that I was going to end up running into some obstacles

Brian: as far as that aspect might be concerned.

Brian: And I wanted to remove that because the amount of research that I did for this book, i.e.

Brian: The eight years spent making everything perfect, making everything right,

Brian: making all the puzzle pieces fit, it. I had 16 women as beta readers.

Brian: My research was just immeasurable.

Brian: Again, I constantly was referring to friends and also people that had nothing

Brian: to do with fly fishing or understanding anything about fly fishing, uh,

Brian: to, to, to help make sure that the voice and the Southern voice was right.

Brian: And I feel good about it. I feel positive about it.

Brian: And, um, I got a little bit of pushback. I reached out to, uh,

Brian: some, some individuals that, uh, that, that said, there's no way that I could

Brian: do that. And, uh, you know, I'm not a quitter.

Brian: So, um, I think that don't judge a book by its cover. That's gonna be my mantra.

Marvin: Well, there you go. And you know, it's kind of interesting, right?

Marvin: So your day gig is you're a visual arts teacher at Myers Park High School.

Marvin: And that is, my mom's a retired public school teacher.

Marvin: And so I know kind of what a grind that can be, right? Cause like,

Marvin: the day doesn't end at two or three o'clock, you're grading papers and doing stuff.

Marvin: And so, I was kind of curious, how did you find the time to craft your first draft?

Brian: I, my, my block of time, um, was specific and my block of time,

Brian: basically my, my day would start at four 50 in the morning.

Brian: I would get up, get my coffee, get in the car, get to school.

Brian: And then I would, I would start hammering through some writing because it was quiet.

Brian: I didn't have anybody bothering me. So technically for about almost,

Brian: almost three hours I could write.

Brian: And And then as the evening kind of wound down after the 7.30 time frame,

Brian: 8 o'clock time frame, I would actually move back in to get behind the computer

Brian: again and start grinding.

Brian: And that pause in the middle of the day where I actually changed modes was enough

Brian: for me to actually kind of work through some stuff in my head.

Brian: Because like I said before, my brain is so jacked up, it's firing all the time.

Brian: And I was thinking, how am I going to fix this thing?

Brian: How am I going to make this work? How am I going to get this puzzle piece to

Brian: fit in here this way so that I can make this happen?

Brian: And that was that space and time in the day, even amidst of preaching the gospel of the visual arts.

Brian: So basically, to answer your question, the long version, early,

Brian: early mornings and then late evenings. It was a grind.

Brian: And the last four years have been even tougher. So being an author is no joke, man, no joke.

Marvin: So were you doing that, Brian, pretty much every day, or were you kind of doing that in spurts?

Brian: That was, without question, an everyday thing.

Brian: It was weekends. It was, yeah, there wasn't a break in time.

Brian: Every day, I was doing some form of writing to further myself.

Brian: And there was a lot of back and forth with my co-author, my cousin. So it was a grind.

Marvin: Yeah, and you mentioned her. I mean, so, you know, people may not have known

Marvin: she, you know, your cousin was your co-author.

Marvin: And I'm kind of curious, you know, how that worked to kind of go from the first

Marvin: draft to the finished manuscript.

Marvin: I mean, did you kind of bang out the first draft yourself and then you guys

Marvin: kind of iterated it, you know, between the two of you? Or how did that process work?

Brian: From the movie script, there was a foundation. And once we had that foundation,

Brian: and Barb said, yes, I will do this with you. I'm going to go down this rabbit hole with you.

Brian: She basically started to take the movie script in terms of its foundation.

Brian: And she started putting the Tetris together. She started putting the puzzle pieces together.

Brian: And basically, she planted the seed, the tree grew up, and then there were some branches.

Brian: I came in with, like I said before, the leaves and the ornaments and actually

Brian: talked a lot about the areas that had to do with the fly fishing.

Brian: And then it evolved to even more. It evolved to certain scenes where I would

Brian: go do research and then I would start writing.

Brian: So over that span of like basically the last five years, I have kind of been

Brian: self-taught in terms of the English language.

Brian: And the English language is a bitch, man.

Brian: It's hard. It's tough. It's tough to be a writer.

Brian: And I learned. It was kind of like on-the-job training. I would send stuff to

Brian: her, she would actually butcher it, and then she would send it back to me with

Brian: her version. I would send it back to her.

Brian: So, I mean, it was like a tennis mat constantly, but I got better and better and better and better.

Brian: And then it finally got to a point where she was not having to edit hardly anything

Brian: that I was doing because I was just so passionate about pushing through and

Brian: finding the voice and finding that muse and then going with it.

Marvin: Got it so it really sounds like she took the script and kind of built the chassis

Marvin: and then you just kind of ate the elephant one bite at a time right you.

Brian: Are correct absolutely that is a beautiful analogy.

Marvin: Interesting and so it's always funny like when i talk to to authors you know

Marvin: i want to you know i'm always kind of curious because you get guys that are

Marvin: like i'll never do that ever again and then there are other people that are

Marvin: eager for it um but you know there's always um and this is probably true kind

Marvin: of in painting and designing you know uh fly fishing fishing accessories,

Marvin: you know, what were, you know, the biggest challenges or surprises you encountered

Marvin: while you were working on the book?

Brian: Oh, thinking that I'd done something monumental. Some of the writing that I had done.

Brian: There was the amount of stuff that she cut, I thought was just superb.

Brian: It was fantastic.

Brian: But that's selfish of me to say that because she would read it and go, it's not fantastic.

Brian: So there was a lot of push and pull. A lot of push and pull.

Brian: And it was a lot of me getting...

Brian: Getting my feelings hurt, uh, and, and feeling like I'd been punched in the teeth.

Brian: And I was like, well, what's wrong with it? Tell me what's wrong with she,

Brian: you know, and she would actually go through this, this whole diagnostic of what, what was wrong with it.

Brian: And I, I had to actually learn.

Brian: I learned a lot about myself in terms of shutting the hell up and stepping back

Brian: and letting things then materialize and letting them evolve.

Brian: And then the system that we had created started to evolve as well.

Brian: As I got better, things would flow. I knew what she would want,

Brian: and I would work through those things.

Brian: And then it got to a point and a place where it became so interchangeable. changeable.

Brian: I couldn't see what she had done versus what I had done.

Brian: And if you talk to her right now, she'd say the exact same thing because she

Brian: told me about two years into the, I guess the 15th draft of the book,

Brian: she was like, I can't tell what's yours and mine anymore.

Brian: And I was like, now I've got, I've harnessed this.

Brian: I have found a voice and I'm getting better at it. I'm even getting better.

Brian: I'm reading The Longest Silence right now by Thomas McGain, and some of the

Brian: words that he uses, I have to go get a dictionary.

Brian: So I figured out something. I was like, if I can just figure out vocabulary.

Brian: I can start manipulating sentences within the English language to speak within my voice.

Brian: And that was a big jumping off point for me right there, too.

Marvin: It's interesting. You know, it makes me think when you're talking about that,

Marvin: it's kind of like, you know, people that go fish with a guide but want to tell

Marvin: the guide how they should fish. Right?

Brian: Exactly.

Marvin: And you got to figure out that, like, you know, what's the point of,

Marvin: you know, you know, associating yourself with people that are better at certain

Marvin: things than you are if you won't listen to them.

Brian: Oh, again, incredibly well said that that's, that's it.

Brian: Oh yeah. I remember being in, you know, I like to joke around and I,

Brian: I would joke around with one of my guide buddies.

Brian: And I remember saying something to him about one of the, like a cast he made

Brian: and he looked at me and he was like, I will push you out of this boat right now.

Brian: So yeah, I get it.

Marvin: Yeah. It's interesting too. I would also say the power of, you know,

Marvin: reading a lot and writing a lot.

Marvin: And, you know, for whatever reason, you know, you and I both are Gen Xers,

Marvin: you know, kids don't grow up doing that, right?

Marvin: And so, you know, it's kind of one of those things, like, if you don't do it

Marvin: a lot, you're not going to get better at it.

Marvin: And, you know, in terms of the reading thing, I think it's super powerful,

Marvin: right, to see how other people put language together.

Marvin: I remember working with my oldest son during COVID on all of his college essays.

Marvin: And, you know, so that was a really fun father-son experience.

Marvin: But what I would say out of that is, you know, we worked a lot on writing, right?

Marvin: And, you know, for Christmas that following year, I gave him a copy of Strunk

Marvin: and White's An Old Man in the Sea, right?

Brian: Oh, yeah. Right on.

Marvin: And, you know, because there's just so much more to – it's just different.

Marvin: You know, like when I was in high school, we were turning in papers every single week.

Marvin: Absolutely. And, you know, and now it's like, you know, holy cow,

Marvin: they wrote one paper in like four years and people are like super excited.

Marvin: So, but yeah, it's an interesting thing.

Marvin: And so, you know, it's kind of funny because I had forgotten that the book started

Marvin: as a script before it was a book, but it's actually potentially moving back to becoming a script.

Marvin: And I know you've been, you know, working on pre-production work with Angie Harmon.

Marvin: And I was really kind of curious, you know, how did you meet Angie?

Marvin: And, you know, what about the story attracted her and said, you know,

Marvin: I want to make a movie out of this?

Brian: I was, this was last year, about the same time I reached out to Jam Up Apparel,

Brian: where I was bouncing around,

Brian: but I had what I thought was an incredibly solid form of the script.

Brian: And I had Angie Harmon's daughter in my class.

Brian: And I just on a whim, it was a really bold move.

Brian: I said, would you please take this to your mother and have her give it a read?

Brian: Fast forward, probably about two and a half months later,

Brian: this young lady walks up to me with her phone and shows me a text and it says

Brian: please tell your teacher I'm going to make this movie.

Brian: And that was gratifying it was

Brian: exciting at that moment I was like wow

Brian: I have someone's attention and

Brian: I mean if you know any of uh uh

Brian: angie harman's work she's fantastic she's just

Brian: a brilliant actress and um i was like what what's next so uh we kind of got

Brian: on board with with angie and uh through her we were able to

Brian: get the script shot through her agents.

Brian: And I don't know in terms of whether or not we got a lot of nibbles or we got

Brian: anything, but we signed a six-month agreement.

Brian: And then when the six months ran out, we took the script back.

Brian: Now the script is back in our possession now. Now, but Angie feels so strong right now about this.

Brian: She is endorsing the book so that we can move this thing forward and get the movie made.

Brian: And we've got some coals in the fire.

Brian: We really have. We have plan B, plan C, plan D.

Brian: And I believe in my heart that this movie needs to be made. And I want it made.

Brian: I want to be a part of the process. I want to be a part of,

Brian: you know, the industry in fly fishing industry alone right now is doing great

Brian: things in terms of leveling out the playing field and by means of getting everybody involved.

Brian: He, she, they. Getting everybody involved with fly fishing. Yeah.

Brian: Um, that's the way that it should be. And I want to be, uh, a part of that, uh, reform.

Brian: So I'm pushing to get this message out to a really large audience. Yeah.

Marvin: And it's interesting too, right? I mean, you know, in terms of,

Marvin: you know, taking the shot and, you know, reaching out through your student,

Marvin: but I mean, I think that's a, you know, from a life journey perspective,

Marvin: you know, particularly if you're like us and you have a few more miles on your

Marvin: tires than the average bear,

Marvin: you know, to coach younger people or really anybody at any stage of life to

Marvin: be more willing to put themselves out there because it's so incredibly rare

Marvin: for anything good to happen if you play it safe.

Brian: Right. Absolutely. Completely agree with that. 100%.

Marvin: Yeah. And I imagine that blows into your art as well.

Brian: Huge risk taker. I didn't want to hold back.

Brian: And I've been able to finally get myself to a point, given the fact that I'm

Brian: 55 now, that first of all, if I don't know the answer to something,

Brian: I'm going to ask a question.

Brian: Number two, I want to finish what I start, and I'm going to look for every single

Brian: avenue to try to be successful.

Brian: It's ingrained in teachers. I am an educator.

Brian: I'm going to look for every means possible to reach my kids, and I don't quit.

Brian: I'm seeing this through, and I really, really, really hope that people get a

Brian: hold of this book. they put a comment in Amazon.

Brian: They leave a video that says, let's get this movie made because it is a game

Brian: changer. And I feel it. I know it.

Marvin: Yeah, and so, you know, to put a little meat on the bone there,

Marvin: you know, when will readers be able to get their hands on a copy and where can they get one?

Brian: We self-published through Amazon and it will be ready for consumption on September the 22nd.

Brian: So very, very soon. It's coming.

Brian: The e-book will be available in about 10 days.

Brian: I don't even know what that would be then, by at least, what,

Brian: the 7th or 8th of September?

Marvin: Yeah. And so can people pre-order or do they need to remember those dates and then go to Amazon?

Brian: They can pre-order, but we really, really, really want everybody to, they can pre-order.

Brian: We want everybody to be able to hit the ground running, though,

Brian: on September the 22nd by grabbing a book.

Brian: And a beautiful thing has happened with this.

Brian: Angie, because she is endorsing the book, is actually going to be at our book

Brian: signing on October the 5th at Legion Brewery, South Park location,

Brian: from 9 a.m. until 12 noon.

Brian: So Angie will be with us signing books. And again, I'm hopeful that it's unfortunate.

Brian: I'm in a very, very fortunate situation that someone who is in the industry, the movie industry,

Brian: who is an actress, cares enough about this project, feels enough about this

Brian: project, and understands the magnitude behind it.

Brian: That they're willing to actually do this with me and my cousin.

Brian: So I'm grateful. I'm humbled.

Brian: So it's awesome.

Marvin: And are there any other promotional events on the calendar other than the event at Legion?

Brian: Yes, the day before, Friday, October 4th, I'm at Appalachian Mountain Brewery

Brian: in Boone from 4 until 6 p.m.

Brian: The front part of the book originates in Boone, my hometown.

Brian: I was so excited about painting such an amazing picture of Boone,

Brian: the mountains, the community of Boone.

Brian: It was a perfect fit for me to be able to do that.

Brian: Um, and I'm grateful that I get a chance to go up there and do a book signing.

Brian: I hope there, you know, a thousand people up there ready to, to pick up the book.

Brian: Um, then again, like I said, the very next day we'll be back home at,

Brian: uh, at Legion brewery in Charlotte and Saturday, October the 5th.

Brian: Uh, did I say South part location before I might have anyway, uh, 9am to 12 noon.

Brian: And then later that afternoon, we will be at Angry Ale's selling the book for

Brian: the Appalachian State versus Marshall viewing party.

Marvin: Got it. And is there a website or social media feeds for the book?

Brian: Yes, it's www.shetalkstofish, all one word, shetalkstofish.com.

Brian: And you can subscribe to get updates. You can also see the events calendar of

Brian: all the signings that we have coming up.

Brian: And then you can get updates on how we proceed in terms of trying to get people's

Brian: attention to hopefully make this movie.

Marvin: Yeah, and I will drop a link to that in the show notes. And before I let you

Marvin: hop, is there anything else you'd like to share with our listeners?

Brian: Well, first of all, I want to thank you for giving me the time of day.

Brian: I'm grateful. And to all the listeners out there, give it a chance,

Brian: give it a read, and then share the book.

Brian: Tell somebody that they need to go grab it from Amazon.

Brian: I'm hopeful that this will resonate with you.

Brian: And I'm hopeful that this platform actually,

Brian: kind of, in a way, changes the landscape. So I appreciate it, Morgan.

Marvin: Oh, you bet. Anytime. My pleasure. And, you know, just kind of curious,

Marvin: as busy as you've been, kind of burning the creative candle at both ends,

Marvin: have you been able to get out and whack a few fish?

Brian: I have. I had to have some boots on the ground for the back half of the book

Brian: deals with Montana State University as well as Bozeman.

Brian: And my wife and I, for her 50th birthday, got to go to Bozeman for 10 days.

Brian: And we went out there and we caught fish.

Brian: And like I said, with having boots on the ground, taking in some of the beauty

Brian: around Bozeman and just Montana in general.

Brian: General and it was it was spectacular but yes and i'm constantly you know if

Brian: i can find a farm pond i keep my my fly fishing stuff in the in the truck at

Brian: all times so if i have an hour i'll go to a buddy's place and go catch bass yeah.

Marvin: And you uh you got to hang out with uh with our good friend ad maddox as well.

Brian: Oh yes when i was that's awesome that's right when i was in montana i got to

Brian: go uh I got to go see AD, finally meet her face to face. It was fantastic.

Brian: I picked up a few of her prints, my wife and I did.

Brian: And it was really, really cool to be able to see her and her space and her environment.

Brian: She's so kind and so gracious with her time.

Brian: It was right before her show at the very, very end of June.

Brian: I think it was like June 28th or something like that. Not she,

Brian: she had a, she had a show and I got to see everything firsthand.

Brian: And it was, it was spectacular, the work that she does.

Brian: And she's another great friend who has kind of played mentor to me on,

Brian: especially being behind the canvas.

Brian: So it was a lot of fun.

Marvin: If you find yourself in Livingston, you should definitely stop by her gallery.

Marvin: There's some just beautiful artwork in there and she's fun to hang out with.

Marvin: And, you know, Hester, before I let you go, you know, what's the best way for

Marvin: folks to kind of follow your, ventures at the easel, you know,

Marvin: at the word processor slash typewriter or on the water.

Brian: Uh, let's see, you can go to www.hookedflyco.com.

Brian: That's H-O-O-K-E-D-F-L-Y-C-O.com.

Brian: You can also catch, like I said, uh, what's up with the happenings as far as

Brian: the book is ketalkstofish.com.

Brian: And then after that,

Brian: you know, I will continue to keep posting and if you're looking to see what's

Brian: happening, Angie Harmon's going to be dropping a post here very, very soon.

Brian: A little plug for the book and if you want to follow her TikTok or her Instagram,

Brian: maybe catch up with what she's doing too.

Marvin: Yeah, and I'll drop all that stuff in the show notes and I'll also drop links

Marvin: to Jam Up and Mothbear for folks.

Marvin: And, you know, hopefully I'll be able to let you buy me a couple beers at Legion

Marvin: here in about, I don't know, six weeks or so.

Marvin: And Brian, I appreciate you carving a little bit of time out to chat with me.

Brian: Thank you so much, Marvin. This was fantastic. Love talking shop,

Brian: man. It's awesome. Thank you.

Marvin: Yeah, you bet. My pleasure. We should do it more often than once every five and a half years.

Brian: Yeah no make the time to call it now i'll talk to you anytime man it's awesome there.

Marvin: You go take care i.

Brian: Appreciate you thank you.

Intro: Well folks we hope you enjoyed the interview as much as we enjoyed bringing

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