You got questions going out of your mind.

Someone with answers.

Now that's hard to find, like the what and the why and the how stuff works or just where to go to avoid all the jerks. She's Gear Abby. Gear Abby.

Gear Abby.

Advice that doesn't suck. Gear Abby. Hello there, my outdoorsy friends, and welcome to Gear Abby, where we tackle the controversial, weird, obscure, obscure and taboo topics that other outdoor podcasts refuse to touch. I'm outdoor educator and writer Shantae Salibair, and I'm here to answer your burning questions about our relationships with outdoor people, products, places and pastimes. And I want them all, because remember, there are no dumb questions, just smart advice. All right, here's how it works. That's right. You're going to send Questions to dear gear abbymail.com and I'm going to answer a couple each week here on the show. And as always, joining me today is my partner in gear, the producer of Gear Abby, and a guy who's worn what seems like every single running shoe that was released in the past year. Colin.

True, not every single one. I purposely avoided several. Trail running. I don't, I don't own any road running shoes.

That's.

Fuck that noise. No, I don't need that in my life.

Is road running like the E bikes of running for you?

I mean, yes, it kind of is. Except, I mean, I guess fast.

Kids whipping past me in their road shoes.

Well, they're now making treadmill specific shoes. I think it's Adidas is doing that.

Is it gravel shoes now? What's next? Underwater running shoes?

Now that. See, now that's a good idea.

Yeah. Get some grip on seaweed.

You know, they call those five fingers and.

Oh, man. Well, it's. It's so nice to be back with you, Colin. We had our little break. Emotional, maybe a mental break. It's hard to say. And by mental break, you could read that in any way you want, but yeah, I was in Wisconsin over the holidays visiting my family, and I did very important things like eat cheese curds and sit on my mom's couch and practice my long vowels. You know, I did a very good job, by the way. But I actually, I am proud of myself because even though it was butt ass cold the whole time I was home, I got outside every single day and I. I didn't run at all because I didn't bring running shoes with me, probably intentionally, but. But I did run. I did walk on the frozen tundra.

It was cold, too. Right? They didn't like in the middle of the country, get snow and, like, ice and coldness and everything.

Yeah. Luckily, there it was chill the day. I like it pretty okay the day I got there. And then by the time I got up to my mom's house the next day, it was like, all hell shall unleash in the fury of winter.

Were the cheese curds particularly squeaky?

You know, the thing with cheese curds? Are you familiar about how to get a cheese curd to squeak?

No, I just remember being that Being a thing with cheese curds?

Yeah, it's a thing. There's a process. You have to let them. Them warm up to room temperature.

Oh.

And once they're. Once they're at the magical temperature, you put them in your mouth, put them back by your molars, and just like.

Do locals go for the squeak, or is this more of a novelty for the uninitiated?

Oh, no. I grew up with. We called it squeaky cheese growing up. We didn't even call them curds. Mom, can I have some squeaky cheese?

Actually? Yeah, for a kid, like, have some squeaky cheese. That's like. Yeah, right. That makes sense.

It was like when she would make the little bologna hats, you know, fried bologna, and it turned into a little sombrero, because I curl it up. Yeah, Yeah.

I, on the other hand, you. I'm glad you got outside. I. I got decided to get sick for. For the last 10 days. This is the first day I think my voice is back to normal. We had to record the rock fight on Monday. That got pushed to Tuesday. And even then, when anybody hears it before this episode comes out, a little. A little scratchy on that day. But it was not like a terrible down, like, couldn't get up sickness. So I. I still got outside a little bit, but not as much as I would have liked with some time off.

Was it like dragging the. You're like, I'm gonna get some fresh air.

It was. Well, there was a little bit of that, but it was a little like, I feel okay. I'm gonna, you know, take the dog for a hike or a walk, and then coming back and be like, you know, I should probably lay down and sleep for three hours. So, I mean, that was my holiday break.

Oh, man. Yeah. I will say it was. I don't know if you have seen the news. You and I used to always talk about the outdoor news, and I don't know. I'm sure you saw the news about Mount Baldy up here and. And them finding three bodies. Uh, which is unfortunate. I really do think, you know, we've talked about this before on the pod, like how important education is. And we have this big ass mountain, you know, it's over 10,000ft right here, very close to LA, one of the biggest cities in the world. And I think a lot of people just really don't understand how mountains change when they get snow on them. And so yeah, just winter is here. And let's start, let's keep going into 20, 26. On a better note, like maybe don't go up the icy mountain if you don't have icy mountain skills.

Not to talk more about California. Cause I think we're probably going to talk a little bit about California again today. No, but to turn it back to the East Coast, I mean, I have some experience with this because this was the Mount Washington problem was proximity and to Boston. And people would go up and you'd see people up there in the worst conditions, not prepared at all. And that's when the bad things do happen. And it's like, this is me and my daughter, actually, we were talking about, oh, we should do a baldy climb in winter. And when she saw this, she's like, ooh, I guess we're not gonna do that. I'm like, well, they shouldn't have been up there. Like I, and I, and I'm not trying to, like, this is the point about this was not a good day to climb and now and the bad thing happened and it's, it sucks. And I feel terrible for their families and you never want these things to happen for these activities that give us so much joy. But yeah, man, like take it. Read the weather report, people, before you go out there. It's like the avalanche. It's avalanche season. Check the Abbey report before you go skiing, folks. Like, the bad thing can happen to you, unfortunately.

Yeah. I really do advocate for finding ways to get outdoor education in the pursuits that they're interested in. You know, again, we've talked about it a bunch and it's hard because I do think there's not a lot of places sometimes to get, you know, for instance, alpine experience. There are like REI used to teach classes. They don't do that anymore. So you like down here, you kind of almost have to lean into all of the outfitters up in the Sierra, which is kind of a haul for people, and then you're paying the class fee. I just wish we had more options in places that have, you know, whether it's whitewater or big mountains like this, canyoneering, you know, things where, where people who don't have experience are apt to get into trouble. It would be nice if we had more options for people to learn how to safely do it and get mentored. You know, I feel like fishing and hunting in particular do a very good job at this.

Yeah, for sure.

But, yeah, we need to brush up on all these other outdoor pursuits people.

Okay. And this is where I'm going to now defend the Internet and social media, because that a lot of that knowledge now exists online. And there's, like, down here, there's like, the SoCal mountaineering, you know, Facebook group, which I joined. And, you know, every once in a while, we'll kind of check in on.

All the SoCal mountaineering you're doing.

Right. In case I decide. But if I do decide, I want to go up Baldy or something else in the area, usually there's somebody who's been up there recently and they're posting about it. We got our guy who goes up San Jacinto every day is a John King.

Oh, yeah.

He posts a regular thing.

Sack John. The winter, the snow report up there.

And when I lived in Utah, there were people who posted about the Wasatch. I mean, it just. Everywhere there are resources. If you're gonna. This is, you know, the case, the Baldies, the Mount Washingtons of the world, where you kind of have this sort of proximity, where there's this false sense of security. I think for some folks, that makes it a little more challenging. But I don't know, man. I think there's some common sense baked into, like, hey, I'm gonna go up in this place in the wintertime. Maybe I should see. What If I could find out what the weather is, too. So, you know, come on, folks. Do the research. You're not. You're not gonna. You're not impervious.

That's true. Or you could just stay home and eat cheese curds. All right. I feel like we're starting the year off in a mixed bag here. We' we started off positively with curds and outdoor, that we kind of went into a dark place, which is my fault. So let. Let's bring it up a notch, maybe. How. How about you kick us off our first question of 2026?

2026. First question. Here we go. Dear Gear Abby, like you, I live in California. I said it was gonna get a little gas.

Here we go, right here. We are still here.

I'm sorry, folks. Listen, write in if you're from somewhere else, okay? We'll talk. We'll talk about California all day. Long, but we're just answering the questions that are sent to us. So come on. F. Your questions. All right. I recently had, shall we say, a spirited conversation with my brother about whether it was ethical to have campfires, even when they're allowed, given the proliferation of mega fires in the modern age. I'll refrain from. Disclose. From disclosing my thoughts here, but I'm curious to hear yours, actually. Kind of curious to hear yours, too, here. Listener. Fondly, Bill W. In Sacramento.

Fondly.

Fondly.

I like that. That was a very.

Has a crush on Gear Abby.

I feel like Bill is a professor or something. That was a very. Professor. Does he know Troy, maybe that this might be Troy's alter ego? We don't know. Maybe. Yeah, we.

Maybe it's a pseudonym.

Yeah. We need more. More talk about elk sex. Actually, by the way, I was. I went over the other day to visit my friends Daniel and Mayon. Mayan Kwan is one of the three founders of Dirty Gourmet, and they've written a couple of really great outdoor cookbooks. And both of them listen to the podcast pretty religiously. And I don't even remember what it was, but she just turned to me yesterday and she's like, hey, listen, we don't kink shame around here.

Yes.

And then at some point, brought up the horny elk. So I feel like we're doing a good job getting through to the people.

We are forced for good in the world.

That's right. But all right, we're going to bring it back to the subject at hand, Bill W. And, yeah, starting off the year strong here. I mean, maybe not the uplifting topic I was hoping for, but it'll work. Okay.

Mountain deaths and wildfires. The Gear Abbey podcast, everybody really, really.

Bringing the positivity to the airwaves. Waves. But you know what? Listen in. In some ways. So any question. You know, I love an ethics question. Colin loves it when I answer an ethics question because he learns a bit more about me and whether or not he agrees with me. Find out today?

Mostly do.

Mostly. Yeah. So far, so good. We'll see if you change your mind after this, but.

Okay.

You know, I do think any question about ethics is a complex one. It's. You know, there's so many factors, but in other ways, it is a little simple. So do I like campfires? Hell, yeah. I love campfires. I mean, come on. I think the desire to stare at a fire is just hardwired into us as human beings. It's that.

Seriously.

No caveman business. I actually remember Sitting around one night on the PCT with a bunch of other hikers and we had like a votive sized one of those battery operated candles just sitting on the ground while we were eating dinner. And I swear every single one of us was just staring deeply into the floor, fake flickering flame like it contained the meaning of life. It was pretty incredible.

That's what happens when you lose your screen, you know, you have to look.

At some sort of light. That's right. Oh my God. Does that mean cell phones are the modern campfire? That's depressing.

Probably.

All right, well, in that case, I prefer a battery operated votive candle.

I don't know. Campfire can't show you porn. So I mean, it's kind of like.

You don't know what. Whatever you see in the flames is what it is. It's like reading, you know, that's true. You don't know what people like. Again, you know, about us and kinks. But, you know, okay. Do I ever build campfires as much as I love them? Here in our beautiful dry ass state of California, which has been absolutely ravaged by mega fires, and we're actually at the year mark from the Eaton fire and the Palisades fire. I think just about when this podcast, this episode comes out, I don't, I don't build fires anymore. And I think it's a little bit of trauma, a little bit of, you know, risk aversion, things like that. Do I think it's ethical to have campfires when they're allowed in this state? I'm going to say it depends. And I say that because, honestly, I feel like most people, I'm sorry to say this, are idiots when it comes to campfire handling.

Sounds like I wrote this answer, right?

I was channeling Colin when I was thinking about this. So I recently read a statistic on Cal matters that 95, 95% of wildfires in California, and I want to define wildfire here. It's basically anything that spreads 300 acres or more. 95% of those are in some way human caused. And I think they roll in the electric company ones because we've seen a lot of big fires happen that way, right? But the largest fire in California was caused by lightning. That was 2020. The August Complex, you probably remember that one. It was pretty nasty. It burnt through about a million acres. But if we go Back to that 95% number of human caused, a 2017 study showed that of those 95% of human caused wildfires, only 5% of them could be traced back to A campfire. Yep. So that's not a lot. It's not a lot. And it's something that I do think people should think about before they jump on each other and harass other people for having campfires. But we'll get to that in a minute. So basically, I mean, statistically speaking, even though we humans seem to have sort of lizard brain when it comes to fires, a surprisingly small amount of them are campfires. And they don't happen. Maybe because we're listening to our friend Smokey Bear and correctly handling them. I don't know. But I want to go back to that idea of is it ethical? So in my opinion, if we are not in a drought state, if there's not a fire ban, if you're keeping the fire inside a contained ring and you're prepared to hang out until you fully extinguish the fire, I want to say that again. Fully extinguish the fire. I think it's ethical. And it's the last bit that's the sticky point though, right?

Like, yeah, you basically, if you follow the rules, what you're saying those. You just outline the rules. That was nothing like on top of what you're supposed to do.

Right?

The rules state.

Right, yeah.

Ring, the conditions allow for it and you put it out.

Yep.

Those are the rules.

Those are the rules.

It's ethical to it.

It's ethical. But I will say, I think you're going to agree with me here. Call and you're going to love this. Maybe I'm turning over a new leaf, 20, 26 and shaking a few sky fists or whatever, but most people are, to put it bluntly, lazy assholes. When it comes to fire, that's.

I don't think that's a controversial take at all.

I don't know that I'm going to get any angry emails about that. So, I mean, listen, even if people use a proper fire pit, which by the way, needs to have 10ft of clearance around the flames, which I don't see a lot of that happening, people seem to really lose the plot when it comes to that last bit, which is extinguishing the fire, you know, you'll splash like a Nalgene's worth of water on it, call it a night, go back into your tent. I cannot tell you, and maybe you've had this experience too, how many smoldering pits I have walked past and spent time extinguishing on, you know, different backpacking trips. It is one of my pet peeves. So, Colin, I bet you know so are you. Well, do you have campfires? I should ask you this.

Yeah, I mean, well, most of the camping. Most of the game I've done in the last 10 years or so has been like, you know, at a campground. And at that point, it's pretty well planned out. You have your fire ring. They'll tell you when you get there that it's allowed. It's not allowed. And. Yeah, absolutely. Justin Hausman and I actually went camping last year, and it was like. Yeah, we had a fire every night. It was great. But we. We put it out, we hung, you know, to your point, you hang out, you're having a couple beers sitting around the fire. It's lulling you to sleep, you know, just the warmth, your little caveman flicker of it. Yeah. And I'm like. I fall asleep anyway. And Justin's like, why are you falling asleep? I'm like, as I'm middle aged. Yeah. As I'm middle aged and I'm looking at the fire and I had a be. All right, leave me alone. But, yeah, absolutely. I'm definitely down with the fire again, if the rules allow.

Yeah. And so I think, and I trust you. I trust you, Colin, and I would trust Justin that you guys know how to extinguish a fire, but I think a lot of people don't. And the thing is, you blow on.

It, you blow air at it, and it goes out.

Yeah. You just say, go to bed now, little fire.

That's right.

Go to night.

Yeah.

No.

Okay, you want to go to sleep, little fire.

No, the thing is, it is actually a huge responsibility managing a fire. I think we don't always think of it that way, but you have to drown that sucker using an obscene amount of water. And you would be surprised just how much it actually takes. And I promise it is more than most of the listeners have probably ever used to douse their fires.

I'm sure I'm not batting a thousand with putting out.

Right. I don't. I don't. None of us are perfect. Maybe a firefighter is, but, you know. Exactly. Exactly. So, yeah, if you just pee on your fire drunkenly before you go to bed, you're probably not fully extinguishing it. I'm just gonna say you should still.

Do that, though, because that's kind of fun.

Yeah. I don't have a penis, so I can't. But for those of you who are equipped, have at it. You know, I. But here's the thing. You're actually supposed to douse it with water, like, really Smother it. Then you're supposed to use a shovel, a stick, a poker, something to stir it around. Just like by the way we talked about doing with cat holes because I can always bring it back to poop.

Had you had to. We weren't even close to it.

Listen, it's 20, 26, I get a fresh poo tally. Okay, so starting all over. So then, then after you stir it, your fire, that is, you are going to drown it a second time. You are going to put a whole bunch more water on it and then you're doing the feel part of it. It's like stir, drown, stir, feel is the three things you got to think about. You're going to hover your hand over it. Don't stick your hand in it just in case you screwed up and didn't really douse it yet. Hover your hand. If it's warm, there's still a fire, you have to put more water on it and if not, go to bed drunk and have a good, good night. Yeah, I think honestly at the end of the day it is, I think a lot of people, sort of, especially Californians, I think because we've been scarred by all the wildfires. But I think a lot of people just figure, hey, it's easier just to tell people. Especially you know, people like thru hikers for instance, who probably don't even have enough carrying capacity or desire or energy to put out a fire the right way just to don't, don't do it. Like that's I think become the common refrain. Like we don't do campfires in California. We don't want to burn the place down again for the 90th time. So, you know, the thing is the truth, you cannot have a zero risk campfire. There's always an element of risk. But I honestly, and this kind of goes back to what we just talked about with Baldi. I'd rather people just get educated on what it actually means to put out a fire safely and do the right thing out there so we can continue to enjoy our well tended flames to our little caveman's heart content, you know.

Yeah, I think that's all the perfect advice. I mean it's one of those nothing is, nothing's 100% right. So even if you, if the conditions allow, bad things can happen, whatever. And that's not a way to live your life is like being in fear of the bad thing happening, you know. So my, honestly my concern for Bill is like, you know, if you decide that I'm not comfortable with this kind of to your point, like, hey, this is like, the conditions might go, and I don't want to be responsible. Oh, man. There's all these fires that kind of freaks me out. Cool, man. Don't have a fire. But, Bill, don't get on your high horse with your brother.

Wait, but what if it was the brother on the high horse?

Well, maybe that's a good point. If I'm getting it wrong, Bill, let us know.

But it's kind of like whoever it is, right?

That's your decision. But, you know, it's a little like, we talked to our friend of the pod and former guest Kristen Hostetter about, like, banning fireworks. And he talked to her. She has a whole, like, theory about why we should, and it's pretty compelling and convincing. But then you think about what you're actually suggesting and the role that fireworks play in the world. Good luck. I mean, you're talking about, like, what a daunting goal that is, right? And it's like, how do you even achieve something like that? To tell people, like, yeah, you just shouldn't have campfires. To your point, it's kind of baked into us that we want to see that fire if we're going camping, so that's going to be tough.

You just talking about fireworks just made me think of Arc' teryx and their. Their display from last year. I'm never gonna let. Personally, I shall never let them live that down. Man, I. All right. I feel like we started. I was just about to make a really bad pun and say we started on a really hot note.

You.

You know what? My coffee just kicked in. Okay. I did make it. I couldn't.

Not like I was gonna. But I didn't. Even though you didn't.

But I didn't. But I did. Listen, I just spent a week hanging out with my mom and stepdad, Mike. So there. There were definitely some bad. That's right. Always shout out. But let's move it along. Let's keep her going. Keep her moving, as Charlie Barrons, the great Wisconsin comedian, likes to say. What's up next?

All right, next question. Dear Gear Abby, is water the best and only thing you should drink while hiking? Or should you incorporate something like Gatorade, Pedialyte, or Powerade into your hydration routine? Signed, Gear Mom. Is this really Gear Mom?

She sent in another question.

I want to make fun of this question, but I can't.

My mom's a good sport. My mom and her.

I mean, Pedialyte's kind of funny.

Well, you Know what? If you're hiking with a baby, make sure that baby is hydrated. If your baby has the flu and you're hiking with it when your toddlers, but also hiking.

I only have notes on the examples. I get the question. This is a little bit like out of some of our nutrition questions we've had, which I'm sure can be confusing.

It's true. Well, I think also you got to remember, not everybody has. You know, you and I are pretty well steeped in the, the outdoor lingo and like the things most nerdy outdoor people like to use. And so the idea of, you know, electrolyte packets maybe hasn't made it into mainstream America as much as we think.

So Pedialyte brands like Noon are trying real hard.

They're trying. They're trying. Did I ever tell you about. This is. This is just a sidebar. It's very important. I helped create a drink. Well, I just named it. I didn't create it. I was sitting at a lake on the PCT a couple summers ago and was chit chatting with some through hikers and they made me. They helped me join in their party time with some delicious libations that were a mix of lake water unfiltered, by the way. It wasn't my first.

You told me this.

Have I told you this? Yes.

Did we say it on the pod before?

If we did, that's fine because we want people to know the recipe.

Okay. Lake water.

Lake water. Whiskey. I think they had honey whiskey. It was honey Jack or something and then orange flavored nun tablets and they. And I got to name it and I called it an old trash end.

So is it filtered like water or do you just rely on the whiskey to do the heavy lifting there?

They relied on the whiskey to do the heavy lifting, which maybe wasn't the best choice, but I did not get sick. So I feel like it all worked. The little concoction. Yeah, but, yeah, but maybe that, that, that's both dehydrating and rehydrating. So maybe mom, don't, don't try that. But you know, I will say my mom is very good at hydration. She did walk around with a Stanley cup up adhered to her hand the entire time I was home and she was drinking from it. And I believe it was water. So. So yeah, but yeah, I feel like when she talks about hydration routine, which I love the idea of a hydration routine because I feel like this is something that some girl would make a cute chart for on Pinterest and It would be like, hi, hydration queen in 2026.

Right, right.

You know, but it is crucial for keeping your body in full working order, especially when you're exerting yourself outside. So, you know, because we sweat, we lose a lot of. Not just liquid, but we lose electrolytes. And we're going to talk about those in a second. But so when we think about water, you know, water makes up more than half of our body composition. And a fun fact for all the people claiming that we're 78% of the wet stuff, that's actually just babies. Like, within a. Yeah. Within a year, you lose about 10% of your water composition because you start developing other stuff like fat. And the percentage actually decreases as we age. So I think men have a little bit of a higher percentage. You guys are a little more watery. And then women are about 55. I want to say you're like 63. I don't know.

Saying that we're wishy washy.

Yeah, yeah. I was trying to be nice about it. Why just float on? Float. Maybe that was. Maybe Modest Mouse was actually singing about men.

There you go.

You can just float on. Okay, I don't want to get sued. So listen, staying hydrated isn't just about sucking down those Stanley's worth of water. Let's talk about electrolytes. Like I said, this is what we're getting at. When, you know, when my mom mentioned Gatorade and the delicious Pedialyte and all of the salty, sugary contemporaries, this is the idea. So electrolytes are not just something made up by the folks over at Liquid iv. Although I will say they have kind of cornered the market on convincing people that they somehow need to pop sugary little packets into their water every day or they'll shrivel up like a piece of beef jerky. Very good marketing, guys, but not necessary. So electrolytes are minerals like sodium, potassium, magnesium, calcium that dissolve into our blood plasma, the fluid inside our cells, and all that fluid that hangs out outside our cells. It's basically all your body fluid. It's like that's the sound it makes. That's a very, like, scientifically accurate sound.

Of electrolytes when sometimes you're laying in the dark at night in bed and you just hear that noise like the electrolytes are doing. Electrolytes are working.

Yeah, those. Those hardworking electrolytes do a bunch of functions while they're slurping around in there. They help us regulate temperature. They help our muscles properly contract, help our nerves signal to each other. You know, to signal correctly. And when there are not enough electrolytes in all of that bodily fluid, those systems just start screwing up. So you're going to get tired, crampy, your muscles will start freaking out, you're going to get headaches, dizzy, you know, just a bunch of unpleasant things. And the idea behind electrolyte drinks and powders is that you drink them after you're doing anything particularly sweaty, which is when we tend to lose a lot of electrolytes in our sweat. So it's kind of just a way to balance out your system. What goes out needs to come back in. But are electric blue sugar water drinks the best way to accomplish this?

No.

No, they're not. No, your body is not benefiting from just like an ass load of sugar, especially after you've already exerted yourself. All you really need to do is eat and drink stuff that naturally contains some of those minerals you lost. So, you know, salty foods, pickles, broths, bananas for potassium. Stuff you would see at the finish line of a marathon, I guess. You know, right? All of that's gonna do the trick. And all you have to do is wash it down with that good old Stanley water. Okay. When electrolytes come in those little packets, it's just a convenience thing, so they just make it easy to dump a bunch of those minerals into your system super quickly. And I don't know about you, but the only time I take them is, the only time I'll take em during a hike is if it's like an all day extravaganza or I'm backpacking and I'm really losing a lot of swe get. Otherwise you're taking them afterwards to sort of restock the electrolyte store in your body in the little, you know. But yeah, I'd say, listen, save the Pedialyte for the babies. Drink water during your hike, chomp down on a pickle or two afterwards. You got it. There you go. That's all you need. Bob's your uncle. Do you think that I. Every time I dispel some sort of myth about outdoor products? No. 1 that now noon is never going to sponsor this podcast.

But maybe, I mean, no, because like, there's still a place for it. Like, look, if you have a, if you have a tuba, I mean, like if you're training for a race or something like that. If you have a tuba, a tube of noon. Sorry, if you're running with a tuba.

Okay, listen, that would be a lot of exertion, so much sweat happening.

You're In a production of the Music Man. No, but it's like there are, there is a place for all of this. I mean, it kind of goes back to a lot of things. We talk about some of the nutrition things too. Like there are times when it all makes sense, the things we get. I think, you know, we as humans get very obsessive though, and it becomes, oh, my God, I cannot go for my run or my hike today because I do not. I'm out of my orange Noon tablets or whatever it is. It's like, you're gonna be fine. It's gonna be just fine. And on the flip side, there's the people like, oh, I only need to drink Gatorade to hydrate on a daily basis. Like, no, that's a bad idea.

Don't do it. That's just.

There's more in there than you need now at the end of a big day, to your point. Or team sports, even if you're at an hour long, you know, basketball practice. Gatorade's probably pretty good for you at that point. Just to kind of replace a few things if you want to. But to your point, boy, team. What else is pretty great is some ice cold water and some really salty potato chips, right?

Maybe some Cheetos.

Colin, I think what it's all about first.

Yeah, sure, I caught you.

See, Yeah, I almost moved right on from that. I think the thing that for all our, maybe my more hyperbolic statements, it's about balance, people. This stuff can work for you. But usually it's like, ah, there's plenty of things you can do here. It's going to be okay.

It's about. It's gonna be okay. It's gonna be okay. You're gonna be fine. Just lick a pickle or something. I like that. You know, we've. You and I haven't seen each other in a hot minute, but this episode so far is a return to form. I'm very happy with it. We've already talked about that.

We have not missed the beat.

Yeah, I even shook my fist at the sky a tiny bit.

You did?

Yeah. We talked about pink shaming. It's great. It's everything that people want. Or not. Hard to say. But we're gonna try to continue to deliver the things the people want. So let us move on to question number three.

Listen, we only deliver what the people want because we read their emails.

True that is.

Dear gearabbymail.com right.

Yeah. Keep it up, guys.

All right, here we go. Question number three. Dear Gear Abby, I'm an aspiring thru hiker and actually found your podcast after buying your PCT book at REI and googling you.

I love that. Dear Abby gold star for you. Best listener ever. You get yes. We're already awarding awards for next year. Good job.

That's right. The voting is closed for 2026 Listener of the year. It is this one. I haven't listened to all the episodes yet.

Okay, well, you got to work on that.

The award has been revoked.

Yeah, the award is like, just hanging in space right now while you work on that.

That royalty for that book is not.

I got to get my 10 cents, man.

Yeah, that's right. I haven't listed all the episodes yet. So sorry if you've already answered something like this, but here's my question. I applied for the PCT permit lottery in November. We're back in California or West coast anyway, and I didn't get one.

Aw.

I'm trying again in January when they have the second lottery, but I'm not feeling very hopeful. Is there any other way to, quote, legally hike the trail if I want to start in March 2026? Thanks so much for any help. Signed hopeful hiker.

Oh, well. Well, first of all, why are you not feeling very hopeful? Just know the lottery hasn't happened yet. By the time this airs, I think you'll still have another week.

So, yeah, you should be not hopeful. H then.

Yeah, right. Unhopeful. Lack of hope. Distraught. I don't know.

Distraught hiker.

Just devastated hiker.

Bad trail name.

Yeah, you have. You've already got your trail name. I gave it to you.

So wait, what was my trail name?

Oh, yours? I don't remember. Well, it'll. It's probably like Cloud Fist Shaker. I don't know. We'll think about something like that. But listen, hopeful, not hopeful slash hopeful. I'm sending you good vibes. First of all, I know that the lottery system, it's a tough, tough, tough go because a lot of people around the world want to do it. But second, I'm going to give you the short answer first, no, you don't need a permit from the Pacific Crest Trail association, okay. To hike the whole trail. It will, however, make your life a whole lot easier. So, yeah, the pcta, if you're not familiar, it's the nonprofit that maintains and protects the trail, and they issue those long distance permits every year for hikes basically over 500 miles. So 500 miles to the whole length of the trail. So what they did is. It's actually really amazing. They got together with all the other land managers, you know, Forest Service, National Park Service, some state parks, and they came up with this long distance permit as a way for hikers to avoid having to get a bunch of permits along the way for all the different forests and parks and everything. It is a super cool thing they do and they don't need to do it. So I think it's a, it's great that they do this. I hate hearing people bitch about this system because what I'm about to tell you, when you realize how difficult it's going to be to hike without a long distance permit, I think you will appreciate what they've done a little bit more. And it is a pretty awesome system. I mean, they do limit those permits. I think it's something like 50 a day. And it, it helps spread out the impact.

And that pcta, now that we're done glazing you, you can sponsor the podcast.

Sponsor the podcast. That's right. Oh, my gosh, why didn't I think of this? But yeah, listen, those first hundred miles especially, so this is where people start dropping like flies. But that first hundred miles, you're kind of jockeying for campsites, and it's tough, you know, but you'll, you know, after the first hundred miles, you got people dropping out, they realize, you know, they got blisters, injuries, they realize they don't want to hike another 2,550 miles. So it'll get a little better. But that first hundred miles in particular, it's important to manage, like how many people are starting at the southern border. So hopeful. Not hopeful.

Hopeful.

If you get skunked on that second lottery, but you really want to hike this year, you're going to need to use what we call local permits. Okay, this sounds cute until I tell you what it entails. So these permits are issued by land managers for all the different parks and forests along the way. And they all have different rules. That's right. Some of them you can get at a trailhead. Some of them you have to get in advance. You know, it's all over the place. Some are free, some are paid. And these permits will also depend on whether or not you want to camp in that area. So for, you know, for instance, the very first permit you would need maybe is one for Cleveland National Forest. But that's only if you intend on camping in the small section of the trail that passes through the forest. So this is the thing. You got a patchwork of different land managers up and down this entire 2,650 plus or minus mile trail and you're gonna have to deal with a lot of them. So from there it just keeps going. You got the San Jacinto Wilderness and San Jacinto State park, the San Gorgonia Wilderness, Ashland Angeles National Forest, the Sierra, which are some of the hardest to and on and on and on through Washington, Oregon. And you got to figure out how to essentially stack your permits on top of one another to cover your tracks, cover your ass, and make sure you are in the right place at the right time. So you're going to have to adhere to a pretty strict schedule or resign yourself to getting new permits along the way. And it's like a domino effect. If you screw up one permit then you're going to have to probably fix all the rest after that.

I've already checked out on this one.

Yeah. Colin's like, screw this shit. This is why I told you hike.

The AT is complicated. I'm going to go hike that trail this year.

It is not. Yeah, I want, I want you to do that. I will support you. So you said you would crew me when we recently talked about me running.

More like a 50k. Are you talking about I gotta go hike the 18 hours?

I mean, you said it, I didn't.

Listen, I'm gonna be done in like 12 hours. You six months start hiking, boy, I'll.

Send you some resupply packages along the way. Your family maybe will come and visit you once or twice.

Speaking of which, we need to get your race on the calendar. That was such a good idea at the time.

It was such a good idea at the time. Let's focus on making a podcast. Yes, yes, there is. Okay, listen. Hopeful that I hopefully have. Hopefully, I've hopefully scared you off a little bit. Sorry for that, but that is the truth. The PCTA really does an amazing service with their long distance permits covering every damn thing. But there is another option that involves like slightly fewer steps. You can start your hike using local permits because they're generally easier to get in Southern California and apply for a long distance permit that will start further up the trail. So again, those long distance permits don't have to start at either termini. They can start anywhere as long as they're 500 miles or more. Like that's your planned itinerary. So that's one really good way to sort of deal with that. But again, you need to be in the place where you are going to start the day your PCTA permit kicks in. Because the rangers, again, especially in the Sierra, those rangers do not mess Around, Like, I knew some people. I think it was last summer or the summer before. There was a whole handful of PCT hikers that got booted from the Sierra because they had taken, like a week off trail and they were like, down in San Francisco and doing all this stuff. And the rangers, like, what took you so long to get here? One of them's like, we went to San Francisco and the rangers, like, just tore it up in front of them. Yeah. So they had to do local permits for the rest of the trail, which was a real pain in the ass. Yeah. So you could do all that. Okay. Hopeful. I'm still crossing my fingers for you. Or you could do what Colin suggested and just pick another trail. Go. Go hike the at with Colin. You know, pick. Pick something like the Colorado Trail.

The CDT5 feels left out. It's kind of always the third one mentioned in the Long Trail conversation. Right.

Go. Go get the CDT some love.

Go hang out over 13, 000ft for 100 consecutive days or whatever.

Yeah. Or.

Ridiculous thing is.

Or you could just walk through Wisconsin, Go back to my home state, do the Ice Age trails.

Ice Age trail. There you go.

Yeah, but. Okay, listen, if you don't get a permit and you're a glutton for punishment and you really want, just tell them.

You know, Shantae, don't do that. I think name drop.

Nope. No special treatment here. You know, but you could go over to the PCTA's website and they actually do an incredible job listing all of the different places where you may need a permit of some kind. And your eyes are going to cross when you look at this list and then donate some money to them, because that list alone must have taken someone 900 years to figure out. Like, kudos to the PCTA and kudos to you. Hopeful. If you manage to hike on local permits.

Yeah. And now both of you sponsor the podcast.

That's right. That's really what today's episode is about.

That's what it's about.

Should I start just giving my Venmo in the.

That's right.

It's Shantae Dash Salibert. Okay. This actually worked on the Rock Fight. Do you remember when we did that as a joke and people were sending me beer money?

Yeah. While you were out hiking.

Yeah. I think I made like, $25 that way.

That's amazing. Hey, listen. And our rates for both podcasts are over on Rockfight Co. So let's go, people.

Yeah. Or just Venmo me directly.

No, but come on. You Got this hopeful you'll be out there in the PCT this summer. Just follow Ashante's advice.

I really have enjoyed this sponsorship drive with you today, Colin.

Yes, it's really great. It's a PPS style.

Get a tote bag. Yeah, we don't and I just want to put an asterisk risk there. We don't actually have anything to send you except for our gratitude. But you could design your own tote bag and then send it to us.

The two of us. I mean, how many? I have way more tote bags than I ever need that I'm just like now feel guilty to throw away. Right. So it's kind of like listen, so every hundred dollar Venmo to Shantay, we'll just send you a random tote bag from our pantry.

Yeah, that's true. It could be anything. I'm actually doing a lot of house cleaning right now. So you don't know what you could get. I'm looking at a Wisconsin day trips book right now that could be yours for the low, low price of a.

25 Venmo with a Lululemon shopping bag. Because they give you regular. They give you reusable bags.

What a so many options. I. I love where we're going with the new year of the podcast, so.

Me too. We're on the right path.

Truly. Yeah. And if we aren't on the right path, don't write us about it. We don't want to hear your thoughts.

Yeah, that's a good point.

Please send us your money. No feedback things. Just questions and money. But we will wrap this up. I promise we're gonna do it right now because Colin is going to ask me something.

Well, it's been a minute since we've done a deep dive on gear. I mean, it's been at least a few episodes.

Oh, that's true.

So, Shantae, I have to ask you a question.

Oh my God.

Gay Gear Abby.

Are you gonna say it? I'm so excited.

What's in your. Just kidding. What's in your pack?

Thank you, David S Pumpkins. I can't wait to tell you.

This is the part of the show where Gear Abby tell tells us what's in her back.

Just yell at like a maniac now. Are you okay?

I don't know. I gotta work on this.

Yep. No, I like it when you do it in the David S Pumpkin style. What's in your pack?

What's in your back?

And then you dance around an elevator. Okay, well, Colin, I'm gonna tell you, because you asked so nicely in that creepy voice that I love so much. I mean, it's no enforcer, but it'll do. I've actually been testing out and I think you know about this. You may have already tested them yourself. The, the HOKA Transport gtx. Have you tried those yet?

I have, I have received a pair of those. Yeah.

That doesn't mean you tried them.

You just, I tried them on for a minute.

Okay, well, we'll get, we'll get to your thoughts. Okay, so, so for the listeners, since Colin has nothing to add here, the HOKA Transport GTX is marketed as a walking and hiking shoe. And even though I'm an absolute monster and I still tried to run in them, which, which I would not recommend, I will not do that again. So here, the, the shoe itself is fine, comfortable, out of the box like every other HOKA I've ever tried. Although I will say it's not as soft underfoot as a Clifton. I like the quick, it's got one of those quick toggle systems for the lacing. It's great. Makes it easy to tighten, makes it easy when I'm feeling lazy. I, I don't know why, but tying loops into shoelaces is not my forte. So yes, toggle all the way. I, I, the style is fine. You can wear them. They, you know, it's a good looking shoe. You can wear it outside casually if you want. And the outsole is actually pretty good. It's pretty well lugged. Vibram. I've used it on trails. It's been pretty good. But I was not testing this shoe. I was actually testing the technology in the shoe, which is the, the waterproofing. So it is the Gore Tex invisible fit and that's what makes it waterproof. So I think you and I have talked about this a little bit and I want to dig in a little bit more. But I hate wearing waterproof shoes.

Cosine.

Thank you.

That's the, that's the only, that's the correct take.

Oh, wait, tell me why you hate it. Because I think we've talked about this. Whether or not it's been on the podcast, I don't know.

I mean, if it's in a boot, fine. If it's something that's, it's going to be. But a pair of running shoes, like any sneaker, like, I can't, I'm so, like flustered right now because I have so many things, my brain is short circuiting. Okay, first of all, Gore Tex works both directions. So if Water gets in your shoe, it doesn't get out. Also, what sweats more than any other body part? Your feet. Like water basically pours out of your feet when you're just walking around.

What's that does it? What's, what's wrong with your feet?

Why is it important your foot sweats more than any further part of your body?

Have you met my armpit? You haven't and that's probably good.

Except for Shantae. Except for my armpit which is the number two part.

Then wait, your feet sweat more?

Yeah, they produce a ton of liquid.

Are you broken? Yeah.

I mean if you wear, you know, if you wear wool socks and you just wear them around, even just at the end of the day, they will.

Feel damp because your feet sweat happens to my feet. I don't have weird sweaty feet like you do, Colin. But they do sweat in Gore Tex. Okay, yes, I'll give you that. So that's your point.

And that liquid can't go anywhere either. And also just you know, you want running shoes to breathe, you want it to be able to dry quickly. So if you step in a creek or whatever, they get wet and you when your eyes out for the day they will dry on their own. So I am anti waterproofing in athletic footwear.

Thank you. I think it is just, it's marketing. Like people think they want a waterproof shoe. They you don't need one unless you are going to be in the snow. That is the only time I want waterproofing and that is a good example.

But you're right, the marketing is a, is a valid is the way because people don't even know what Gore Tex is. A lot of times in apparel the uninitiated don't know. And so if they see Gore Tex on a shoe they just assume oh, that means it's better. They don't know what that actually means and it actually is not what you want.

Truly drives me nuts. And you know I do have a pair of waterproof Hoka speed goats and, and I hate using them. Like they say Hoka sent me those a long time ago. I've had, it's a very old version of the Speedgoat. And you know, it's like I barely wear them because they're still pretty much brand new. I just bust them out when I go to Wisconsin sometimes and I put some micro spikes on them and use them to run in because I don't want snow water in my feet. But so for people who are not familiar like you just said, Colin A lot of people don't really understand Gore Texas. So the thing is, like the speedgoats, for instance, those waterproof speedgoats are made in what would be the traditional way of doing a waterproof shoe, which is by basically sewing in a Gore Tex lining. And so what Colin said is true. It prevents water. Yeah, like a booty. Exactly. It's just kind of sewn into the inside of the shoe and it creates this little waterproof tomb for your foot to float around in with its own water. Collins. Very sweaty feet. Um, I, for me, when I wear those, there's such a thick shoe because that's a whole nother layer of shoe material on the upper essentially. And it just, they're so uncomfortable. To me, it's so much shoe, it feels thick and bulky. I don't love it. I always generally opt for just wet feet from the rain and I deal with it. The transport, however, uses that new technology, the invisible fit. And that is a different kind of waterproofing. So it's actually bonded to the outside of the shoe. It's integrated into the material so you don't have an extra layer in there bulking things up. And I will say so besides my ill advised run in them around the Rose bowl, which I don't know why I did that, it was not the most.

Because you wanted to. Was UFC playing or.

Yeah, it was before I was priming. It was priming for the Rose Bowl. I was getting the track ready for everything that would happen inside. But I have, I've used them on a ton of hikes. I've used them on a bunch of urban walks. I, I used them in the snow. I took them home with me to Wisconsin and you know, I actually there, I kept forgetting they were waterproof shoes. And that's because they don't feel like a Franken boot like all of the other Gore text shoes do. So I will say kudos to Gore Tex and kudos to Hoka for deciding to use it in these shoe, even though I don't think you need it in this shoe. But for people who want that waterproofing, I loved that this didn't feel bulky. So I'd say these are probably the best non booty boot waterproof shoes I've ever tried. It's a low bar. Okay, so we'll say that. But yeah, I mean, they're kind of like kind of aggressive mall walkers if you want, like you can walk in them, you can kind of walk on the trail, but you know, listen, I.

Can walk through the fountain at the mall, they'll keep your feet dry, put.

Your feet in the fountain like a weirdo or like a three year old, you know. Yeah, put them on your three year old, let them have at it. But yeah, I just, I don't know, man. I really don't think, I don't personally ever need another waterproof shoe. Boot shoe, running shoe, hiking shoe, just, you know, winter boots. That's it.

That's it. You're, you're spot on. And this was my experience. I did get a pair and I wore them around a little bit and they did feel a little, not nearly as stiff as like previous Gore Tex booty boots that I have or shoes that I have used before.

And wait, I want you to say booty boots again.

Booty boots.

Booty boots, yeah.

Gore Tex booty boots. Make sure you'd sell more than Gore Tex if you call them booty boots.

But now I like them, but it's like that's great.

And I'm glad if you saw it feels a little more flexible. It feels a little bit less like there's something else in the shoe. But it doesn't solve the problem of like a Gore Tex of a waterproof running shoe. And so from that point of view I still won't. And I think this goes back a little bit to kind of like what we just answered the gear mom question about like, you know, Gatorade and stuff like that. I think a lot of what you're going to hear from Shantae and I on these topics is there's usually a disconnect in some of this gear stuff by like, like how stuff should get used, when it should get used, who it is actually for. And that's because most of the stuff that is, you know, produced by the outdoor industry is worn more casually and you know, and there is there a time when I would like to have a running shoe with a Gore Tex liner in it. Yeah. If I'm going to do a three hour like snowshoe hike or run or something like that. And it's going to be not an all day thing where I don't need insulation on my shoes, but a little, I know that liner will keep my feet a little bit warmer and a little bit drier. But it's a really specific use.

It's a specific use case. It's the gravel shoe of waterproofing. Yes.

And so like at the end of the day, no, I just need my running shoes. And because even then my regular running shoes in that scenario my feet might get A little more cold and a little more uncomfortable, but I'll probably be all right.

You'll be all right because your feet are apparently sweating exponentially anyway.

Well, I did look it up while you were talking. And would you like to know the area of the body that has the most sweat glands per square inch?

Okay. Yes.

Your palms and your feet.

Oh, okay. It doesn't mean they're operational, though. I mean, not everything.

Our ears are just shut off. They're in there, but they don't work.

That's right. I mean, I'm not saying they don't sweat.

I have a lot of sweat glands, but they don't operate.

Minor. Minor.

My feet sweat glands migrated to my pits.

Mine retired.

It said the palm, your forehead and your upper back were the other areas, but then. And then the next level down were your armpits.

You're gonna say like under boob. Man, that was a very sweaty area.

Well, I think anytime. Yeah, you have, like, you have skin on skin. You know, you're creating heat, you know, Crotch.

Yeah. All right, well, that's it for this episode of Gear Abby. Until next time, send your burning questions, or your wet questions, I guess, about your relationships with outdoor products, people, places, and pastimes over to DearGearAbbyMail.com and I'm going to do my best to answer them or find someone else who can. And of course, head over to your podcast listening service of choice and subscribe, rate and review to support the pod and make my day. And follow us on Instagram at gearabypod. I'm promising to get back on the Insta horse. I'm going to do it. But in the meantime, today's episode was produced by David Karstad and this guy called. And true art direction provided by the lovely Sarah Gensert. I'm Shante Salibair, and remember, there are no dumb questions, just smart advice.