David:

[0:00] Too many times we get busy with life and get sucked into the progress of things

David:

[0:04] from progress or a tragedy of the moment. But every once in a while, God does something to shake us up a bit. And today I brought on Josh Cantwell, who is a cancer survivor, and to tell about how God has been good to him, how he's been cured of cancer, and then the fresh perspective on life he has today. He is currently the founder and CEO of a company called Freeland Adventures, heavily involved in commercial real estate, does all kinds of business over in the, I think, Ohio area. So yeah, Josh, welcome to Redeeming Business Today.

Josh:

[0:34] Hey, David. Thanks for having me on. It's so great to be on with you. I know I've tried to schedule this up a few times and I've been looking forward to sharing. So I can't wait to talk a little bit more about it.

David:

[0:48] Very good. Well, hey, before we start, a question I ask all my guests, what is one way that you have found in your business that you can honor God?

Josh:

[1:00] Um well look in in business um i believe there's really three things that really matter the most it's people product and process um but product and process is more of a business strategy right it's the product you put out the process and the way you do it and so to me the way that we're able to honor God is through the people that we serve. And as a CEO and a founder, you quickly realize the bigger your business gets.

Josh:

[1:35] Really the lower you are on the totem pole. It's really about serving your staff and then serving your customer. In my case, we own a big portfolio of apartment complexes and we raise a lot of money. So in the way that we treat our residents and the way we treat our investors and the way we treat our staff is the ultimate form of honoring God in the way that we treat them. And I feel like humility from leadership is ultimately the way that we honor God. God talks so much about in the Bible about humility, about being humble, regardless of your success and realizing that so much or if not all of our success is really driven by God and driven by our beliefs and the success that he allows us to have. And so, so many founders, I think, and so many owners get really full of themselves, a real kind of puffy chest and feel very good about their success and feel like it's something that they drove and you start to really realize, when your business really starts to take off, like ours has, we're so fortunate, that so many decisions are being made.

Josh:

[2:51] Without me being involved, so many people are being added to the team without me being involved with so many residents are being moved in and units are being leased without me being involved. So many investors are being referred to us without me even knowing you start to realize just how humbling that really is to be able to grow a business and

Josh:

[3:15] realize that that's God working his way through all the fabric of your company. Um and so me realizing that i'm really a servant leader um is ultimately the way that um i feel like i'm honoring god every single day.

David:

[3:31] That's that's very interesting you you stated a few minutes ago that the the bigger you get the lower in the totem pole you get that i found that very interesting because many people think of the opposite ways like i'm getting higher versus yes i have more people to service more people to take care of more people to do all that. So really, yeah, you have a lot more responsibility there.

Josh:

[3:55] Um, no, yeah, that's.

David:

[3:56] That's a neat perspective.

Josh:

[3:58] It's so wild for me to think we have over 5,000 people that live on our campuses, none of which I've really ever met. I've had conversations with some residents when I walked through the parking lot or something like that. Uh, we have over 400 investors and we have almost a hundred staff, you know, from W2 and, um, you know, full-time staff to subcontractors, but over a hundred people. So you add all that up, it's, you know, roughly 5,400 people, uh, most of which I don't know. And sometimes I often pinch myself and wonder like, how did that even happen? You know what I mean? Like, how did that, how did that happen? So it's very humbling for sure. And I think like, okay, now if I serve these people and I know we have a good product and I know we have a good process, if we continue to modify that, to optimize it, turn the screws on it, it ultimately comes down to that product and process serving those 5,400 people. And it makes me feel pretty small actually to think that that's all happened. Whereas I honestly am not very involved in 90% of it. We have the rest of our leadership team, the rest of our staff that's building out those systems and process to serve the people and serve the investors and serve our staff. And so I like to lead from the front, but I definitely feel very humble and very small when it comes to the way this thing's been built.

David:

[5:28] That's a great perspective to have. I love it.

David:

[5:31] So yeah, tell us a little bit about your journey. I guess be as detailed as you can. I want to ask some questions as we go along. But you had cancer and you had to have surgery and it basically saved your life. But yeah, tell us a little bit about that.

Josh:

[5:47] Sure. Yeah. I mean, I was, I'll tell you just the day it happened, the day I discovered it, I was roughly, I think, 35 years old. It was back in 2011. Actually, I know I was 35 in a few months I came home from work This was in, This was in September, September 12th was the exact date September 12th, 2011 I came home from work, very normal day, just like today, My wife was 8 months pregnant And I had 2 little kids at home My daughters were 2 and 3 years old And I came from a normal day. I grabbed my girls. I'm wrestling with them in the living room. And I rolled over. I crossed my hands across my stomach. I looked up at the ceiling fan. And I felt this giant lump on the left side of my stomach. Just like that.

Josh:

[6:44] I was like, wow, that's weird. That shouldn't be there. What is that? I remember telling my wife. She was over in the kitchen. I'm like, honey, Lisa, come on over. Check this out. You know, she starts kind of poking around and she's like, that's kind of weird. It's only on the left side of your belly button. Like it's only on the left side of your stomach. And I'm like, you know, that can't be, that can't be good. Right. So I, I had three aunts that were all nurses and a good friend of mine that I played college football with happened to be an orthopedic surgeon. He lived across the street. My buddy Latul Farrow, Dr. Latul Farrow. So the next day I went over to Latul's house and he laid me down on his living room floor. He started poking around and he's like, yeah. That's not a hernia. That's not a sports injury. You should go get a CT scan. So I went to get a CT scan. It was actually on a Saturday morning. And on Monday morning, the following, you know, 48 hours later, they called me up and they said, I remember my wife answered the phone, David, and she said, they said, hey, Lisa, this is the Cleveland Clinic. It was like at 8 in the morning. So it was weird that they called that early. And they said, hey, this is the Cleveland Clinic. Is Josh there? And I got on the phone and she handed me the phone. She said, it's the Cleveland Clinic. And I was like, that can't be good. Yeah.

Josh:

[8:08] And they said, Hey, Mr. Kent, well, this is the Cleveland Clinic. We got the results of your CT scan and we need you to come to the hospital immediately. And I was like, oh, man. So long story short, went to the hospital. My surgeon, or not my surgeon, but my oncologist brought me in. And he showed me the CT scan and said, hey, Josh, see this big gray mass here? This is not supposed to be here. I'm sorry to tell you, but you have pancreatic cancer. And I've already set an appointment for you upstairs in oncology. And I'd like to walk you up there. And I started to think like, okay, emergency, come to the Cleveland Clinic right now. Okay, you have pancreatic cancer. Okay, I set an appointment for you on oncology. I'd like to walk you up there. This is getting pretty darn serious pretty fast.

Josh:

[9:09] Dr. Ali, he's the one that officially diagnosed me with pancreatic cancer, immediately referred me to Dr. Matthew Walsh. And he said, listen, you're going to have to have surgery. I already referred you to Dr. Walsh. Um, I need you to meet with Dr. Walsh and, and talk to him about, about having surgery. So I was fortunate in that when this whole diagnosis, David was, was said and done, the cancer mass I had was as big as a basketball.

Josh:

[9:36] It was 12 inches by 11 by 10. It was massive, but it stayed contained. It did not metastasize. i had actually the same exact diagnosis as steve jobs and steve jobs had just died that summer that you know founder of apple computer he had just died that summer of pancreatic cancer but his did metastasize he elected not to have surgery and he ultimately died from it that summer, um i was fortunate that it did not metastasize all over so i was a candidate for surgery was very, very, very lucky to be a candidate for surgery. So my wife and I, we prayed about it. Dr. Walsh, my surgeon, he literally said, Josh, I want to have you in. This was in September. I want to have you in for surgery the first week of October. And I was like, whoa, whoa. Like my son had just been born.

Josh:

[10:33] And when I was diagnosed, he was 10 days old. um and it was just mind-blowing to me i was he's born he you know he had some complications when he was born he had to have surgery on his neck i finally go in get this get diagnosed all this type of stuff and um.

Josh:

[10:56] Dr. Walsh wants to do surgery. So my wife would have been, you know, Dominic was born via emergency C-section. So my wife would have been C-section with basically a one month old, a two-year-old and a three-year-old and husband in the hospital, major surgery. So I started immediately thinking about, uh, my wife and just how much pressure this was going to put her on. Um, I'm a pretty optimistic guy. So I wasn't thinking about the gravity of the diagnosis that I had. I started immediately thinking about my young family, my young wife, three young kids.

Josh:

[11:38] So I told Dr. Walsh, there's no way I could do this surgery in early October. I have to get everything in order. And I have to feel comfortable that when we go in for surgery, that I've got all this planned out as best as I can with God's guidance as best I can because there was no, no guarantee. Like there's no guarantee I would even make it through the surgery. David, I remember right before the surgery, I ultimately scheduled the surgery. The week of Thanksgiving was November 21st, 2011.

Josh:

[12:11] And I scheduled it that week because I knew that nobody would know that I was out, right? Like everybody's taking Thanksgiving week off. everybody's taking christ you know thanksgiving break and time and nobody really works that week anyway so i'm like all right if i do it that week nobody's gonna notice that i'm out um but i remember about 10 days before the surgery signing the disclaimer the disclosure document that said this could happen this could happen and this could happen and you could die on the operating table and i just remember man that hitting me like a ton of bricks and thinking like this this this is real now like this I cried actually my wife was not with me at that appointment I was by myself I remember pulling out of the Cleveland Clinic this was around November 10th about a week before my surgery 10 days before my surgery and I remember crying in the car when I called my wife, and just thinking like this all of a sudden just got very very real um um.

Josh:

[13:14] Day of the surgery, November 21st, 2011.

Josh:

[13:21] I remember the night before the surgery, my good friend, Mike Tutoram, my friend Mike, actually introduced me to my wife. He's the reason why we met and ultimately got married. He stopped over at my house and he said, man, you got this. You got this, man. I remember him saying from the movie Top Gun, And, you know, it's just a walk in the park, Kazanski. And I'll never forget that, you know, that quote, because it was anything but that. It was anything but that. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. But I remember praying with my dad the night before the surgery. My dad met me at the hospital. My dad was my first mentor in business. He was an entrepreneur. He owned an employee benefits company. He's the reason, David, why I met you through FCCI, Fellowship of Companies for Crisis, because my dad was a member of FCCI. And I remember talking to my dad and having a serious conversation with him. Dad, like, if I don't make you through this surgery, like, you guys got to make sure Lisa and the kids are okay. You know?

Josh:

[14:31] And so all of that lead up came down to, I'll never forget the night before, standing at my bathroom sinks. My wife is at one sink. I'm at the one sink next door we're talking in the master bathroom you know master bathroom and I said you know Lisa if I don't make it, you guys are going to be okay everything's going to be okay, and she lost it she's like it's not going to be okay so you can't like this you have to make it through this surgery it's not going to be okay if you don't make it and I said Lisa listen, if I don't make it I'm going to be exactly where I've always wanted to be. I'm going to be in heaven. I know that would leave you here with a young family without me, but it's going to be okay. I'll be exactly where I've always wanted to be. And she said, well, you can't. You can't. Like, not yet. Not yet.

David:

[15:39] Not yet. Not yet. I'm not ready to go.

Josh:

[15:41] Yeah. And so the night before and the morning of, I just remember that being such... A powerful couple of hours in reflecting with my wife and reflecting with God, reflecting with my dad on all of my life kind of coming to a point where you have to really get comfortable with maybe not making it or them not being able to get the cancer out or being terminal. All these kind of things going through your mind.

Josh:

[16:17] And I wish I wish that every single one of your listeners and everybody that dated that you and I know, I wish everybody could have that moment without having to go through what I went through like imagine.

Josh:

[16:37] The gravity of the moment and being able to seriously reflect on your faith seriously reflect on your life. Seriously reflect on your marriage and how you've treated your parents and your brothers and your family, and really be forced to come to grips with potentially that being the end of your life. The last day. Or, you know, having surgery and then being told you're terminal and we couldn't do the surgery. Um that may have been the most one of the most powerful nights of my life, i also thought about in business you know redeeming business like, what was going to happen to my business if i didn't make it um so many things were going through my mind that night ultimately you know there's a whole nother part of the story of the recovery and what's happened since then. But that night and that morning, I'll never forget the opportunity that I had to really reflect on my life. I wish everybody could have that experience.

David:

[17:52] So during that time, I mean, that's very profound to say, and you're right, not everybody gets this opportunity to say, hey, my life's done tomorrow. How did I treat all these people? Would I have done something different. Usually we're on our deathbed, but we don't get our deathbed and then get another 15, 20, 30, 40 years. That doesn't happen.

David:

[18:13] What changed for you? I mean, you had that experience. So before and after, what are some attitudes or thoughts about life that then shifted because of that evening before your surgery?

Josh:

[18:27] Yeah. You know, I realized that, I always was a believer but I, I grew up in, in the faith. I grew up in the church. I grew up Catholic. I went to Catholic grade school, Catholic high school, went to church every Sunday. I don't know that up until then, that I really had focused on building a relationship with God and seeking advice and seeking counsel. And ever since then, when I pray.

Josh:

[19:09] I ask for every time I wrap up a prayer or even if I just have even 10 seconds to spend with God throughout the day, I'll say the same prayer, which is, Lord, help me have an open heart and an open mind, to listen to and to work through everything you're asking of me today.

Josh:

[19:31] That's it. Help me have an open heart and an open mind because if we constantly are open to an open heart, to the way that we treat people and the way that we love people and the way that people, when they do things to us that we are mad about, you know, and giving people grace and forgiveness, help me have an open heart. Help me have an open mind because as humans, we always think that we are so smart and we have every answer we have every every solution and we're really you know i've realized that we don't, um and often solutions come through people or think about it like every good idea, i've ever had has not really been my own it's been somebody else's idea it's been somebody else's, a book I read, a podcast I listened to, somebody that I know, somebody that suggested something and they've said something. And I'm like, that's profound. I'm going to use that. Well, ultimately, if you think about it, what is that? That's God speaking to me through that other person or through that other medium. So if I don't have an open heart and open mind, I'm going to miss out on so many of God's messages.

Josh:

[20:50] If we're closed-minded to other people or close-minded to other opinions or ideas. So now when I meet with people and talk, like I had two really important business meetings this morning, I don't look at those as business meetings. I often look at those as God speaking through those people to me. That's a grace, a message that they've given me. So I completely look at it differently now because now it's, help me have an open heart and an open mind to what God is telling me. And it's often through other people. So if we have too big of an ego, we think we're too smart and I've got all the best ideas. Well, we're not really having an open heart and open mind, do we? To what other people are saying or other people are suggesting, whether it's in life, business, relationships, health and wellness, all these kinds of things. So seeking God is seeking knowledge and it's often comes through other people. So that was the most, one of the most profound things that's ever happened to me was that night because I realized I wasn't very open in the past. I definitely thought I was just going to muscle my business. I was going to muscle my relationships. And I was always the smartest guy in the room. I really felt that all the time. And I, you know, built a big business and I would, you know, had years, we made millions of dollars and I was in my twenties and early thirties. And I was like, man, I'm really smart now. It's like, well, no, you know, God's going to put me on this operating table and he's going to rip my business apart. Literally, that's what literally happened.

Josh:

[22:17] So when I went in for surgery, I ultimately had over the next four to six months, one of the most brutal, it was not a walk in the park. It was anything but that.

Josh:

[22:36] And ultimately, that was maybe the humility that I was missing. And God saying to me, listen, I'm going to put you on your knees. And that's literally what happened for the next four to six months. Um, when I had my surgery, the surgery was 10 hours. Um, I had a basketball size, cancer. Um, but my surgeon took out my stomach, my spleen, my gallbladder, this cancer mass. He took out most of my pancreas, most of my liver. He took out arteries out of my leg, had to put them back into my insides to see if these arteries would take, because the arteries and some of the veins were completely destroyed and damaged by the cancer. The surgery was 10 hours. I had, as we, as we talk right now, David, both of us have seven units of blood in our entire body. They measure it by units, seven units of blood on the operating table that day. They, they cycled 21 units of blood through my body. So three times the amount of blood that we have in our body was cycled through my body in that 10 hour surgery. So I have everybody else's blood in my body, except my own. Think about that.

David:

[24:05] Yeah.

Josh:

[24:08] I had to completely relearn how to eat. I had to completely relearn how to walk. I was in the ICU for three days. I didn't get up out of bed until basically Friday, the day after Thanksgiving. And when I got up out of my bed and finally took my first step, it was literally like walking on needles. The pain that comes up through your feet and through your legs when you've been sedentary for three straight days. It is it's literally hell it's literally hell on earth, so I often think that God said to me you know I've given you my dad said this to me too and I think this is God, using my dad as a messenger my dad said to me he said son you have so you've been given so much you have so many talents, and if you recover from this surgery your job is to listen to the journey that you're on and listen to the lessons that you learned along the way. And then you have to use that in the second half of your life because you really shouldn't even have a second half of your life. Remember, pancreatic cancer had, when I was diagnosed, had a 7% survival rate.

Josh:

[25:16] So after five years, David, 100 people that were diagnosed, 93 of them were dead. Only seven survived and i'm not here i am it's been 14 years i'm one of the seven right it's amazing it's it's it's literally a miracle and so i think it was god's way through this process through the diagnosis the surgery the recovery literally hell on earth recovering learning how to eat again learning how to walk um with a young family with a business that had you know ultimately started falling apart while i was recovering um it was a way for god to say like you josh you are talented you are smart but you are also full of yourself young man, and i'm going to bring you to your knees and then i'm going to i'm going to rebuild you um, And I think that's what's happened. You know, the second half of my life, the last 14 years, we've built an even bigger business than we ever had, but we've done it now with humility and service, servant leadership versus it used to be the other way around, right? Everybody's there to serve me. Now it's the exact opposite. It's the exact opposite.

David:

[26:31] Very good. No, that's, that's interesting. And that's, I've seen that in other people I've talked to, it's like the before and after, the before and after of the business. And this is what God used in your life. And we all have things.

David:

[26:45] We all have trials we go through and seasons we go through. I like to call it the wilderness experience. Moses was 40 years in the wilderness. Jesus spent 40 days in the wilderness. I mean, different people spent time separated from their family. Joseph did too. But it's all for God's purpose and bringing glory to him ultimately. I love your attitude

Josh:

[27:05] Um david you know my mom said something it was interesting my father was an entrepreneur you know and so when my mom my dad passed away during the covet year he didn't die from covet but he had a eight-year battle with parkinson's and um he passed away in in november of 2020 and my mom i often ask her about my dad's journey his dad his journey of faith his journey of entrepreneurship as a as a father a servant leader and my mom said to me one thing she said them, you know, I felt like I was married to a different man every five years.

David:

[27:40] Really?

Josh:

[27:41] And I thought, wow, how profound is that? And I thought, you know, tell me more about that. She said, Josh, every five years, if you're a business owner, your business is really different every five years. You don't sell the same thing. You need to reinvent yourself. You need to innovate. And you're often, your business is different every five years. Well at the same time at home she said you know you boys i have two older brothers, you boys were different every five years you guys went from being you know uh toddlers to teenagers to young men to getting married and then in some cases divorced my both my brothers are divorced, um to you know josh you getting married to you having your own kids to us becoming grandkids and every five years things were different and every five years she felt like she was married to a different man and my father. And so I realized that that evolution of an entrepreneur, that evolution of a man, the evolution of a marriage, the evolution of parenthood.

Josh:

[28:45] Was normal. And you were going to have, like you said, David, there are going to be seasons, where things were great in business, but terrible in marriage or great in marriage, but terrible in parenthood or amazing in all four or terrible in all four, you know, or certain areas where your health and wellness is great, but maybe your business is not. And I got to, I got to the point of kind of getting comfortable knowing that, that if one pillar of our journey is health and wellness, and one pillar is maybe entrepreneurial success, another pillar could be as a parent, another parent could be as a husband or a wife, another pillar could be our relationship with God.

Josh:

[29:35] There might be five or six main pillars that it's literally impossible for any one man or woman to get, like, if you're going to rank them as like a zero to 10, it was impossible to get a 10 at all five or six pillars. And when I, when I started to realize after my surgery and listening to my mom's tell me, you know, story about my dad, I started to realize it was okay, to not get a 10 out of 10 in all these main aspects of life. It was okay.

David:

[30:07] Yeah and okay

Josh:

[30:08] The more i could and one of the things i realized i started to do, is i post and what i call post and prioritize every sunday night um i go into my office pray, and post meaning i write down it's almost like journaling but i really i keep these notebooks and i i journal about business and i journal about my personal life and i journal about my faith and my relationship with my wife. So I post everything. I just download, I basically throw up from everything that's in my brain onto a piece of paper. And then I prioritize it. And then I don't, I don't look through my tasks anymore throughout the week. I don't look through like, what do I need to do every night? I look at these, these kind of pillars, these five or six pillars. And I look at like, what, what did I write down on Sunday night that I could be doing and scheduling into my schedule that I could make these pillars a little bit better every week. My business pillar, my relationship pillar with my wife, my relationship with my kids, my relationship with God.

Josh:

[31:17] And it's given me a little bit of a road map that every day, every week, I'm not changing my priorities, I'm not changing my to-do list. I'm just looking like, how can I nudge each one of these things forward? And if the following Sunday I sit down and post and prioritize again, I'm like, did I nudge each one of these things forward? Did I put work into and do things to make each one of these as close to a 10 as possible? And some of them in that week I might be like oh my god my business is amazing or my relationship with my wife is amazing some of them I'm like oh my god I got into a huge fight with one of my kids and that pillar is a one right, but those are some of the major major takeaways from this recovery man is that now I realize especially as an entrepreneurial father and husband, that being a leader but leading by serving all these other people, our investors, our residents, our staff, my wife, my kids, and of course God first and foremost.

Josh:

[32:25] It's really fulfilling. It's really fulfilling to say, I'm just going to take care of others. I'm not going to worry about taking care of myself. I'm really just going to focus on taking care of everybody else.

Josh:

[32:37] And I get my fulfillment, my personal joy, by really focusing on taking care of everybody else. And that in turn has given me more joy and more personal fulfillment than focusing on myself first. See what I'm saying? That's the difference between this half of my life and the first half of my life before and after this major surgery.

David:

[33:04] Very good. It's interesting because what you just said very much aligns with the Bible. Because it says we are here to be zealous for good works. Jesus redeemed us to be zealous for good works. God made us to do all these good works to walk in them. And what you're saying in serving other people is you're doing good for other people. And that's bringing ultimately more joy, more fulfillment than bossing everybody around and thinking only of yourself. And that's so cool to see that in real life. You may not even understand that, But that's, I can show you a bunch of Bible verses that what you're doing is exactly what God said to do. We don't, and we just need to do it and realize that that benefit will come from following God's word. Yeah. Love your story. Love your takeaway.

David:

[33:56] What would be one thing that you'd like to challenge our audience today as they take, walk away from this conversation? What's one thing you'd like them to remember?

Josh:

[34:05] Um This is the one message. It's really two words. I'm going to say these two words, and then I'm going to tell you a story behind it. The two words are be daring. I believe that God wants us to go out, to try new things, to do new things, to take risks and be daring and take a leap of faith.

Josh:

[34:38] Be daring. And the reason why I say this is, when I had my surgery, it was November 21st. I'll never forget this. Fast forward six weeks later, I was in Dr. Ali's office. It was January 3rd, 2012. 12, I went in for my recap meeting with my oncologist. So I'd be meeting now for six weeks with my surgeon, the nurses, the recovery, learning how to re-eat and learning what I could eat. And I'd lost 50 pounds in three weeks. And I went from 220 pounds to 170 in four weeks. And I couldn't really eat anything. And all these crazy things happened. But I was working with the surgeon the whole time, the surgeon's team. Finally, the surgeon said, hey, you should go back and meet with your oncologist, create like a post-op, you know, post-surgery plan. I met with Dr. Ali on January 3rd. So I walk in, I sit down at his office. They get me ready. He walks in. He says, hey, Josh, you know, give me a handshake. Great to see you. Let me go to the computer. He starts reading the report. He did not know what had happened in the surgery. He starts reading about how Dr. Walsh opened me up saw how complicated it was saw how.

Josh:

[36:01] Complicated and how wrapped up this cancer was inside my stomach my gallbladder, my spleen, my pancreas the veins, all this stuff he sits back and says something I'll never forget he said Dr. Walsh is a daring surgeon.

Josh:

[36:20] And I looked over at him and I was like, what, what did you just say? What do you, what do you mean by that? And he said, I referred you to Dr. Walsh because Dr. Walsh is a daring surgeon. As I read this report and see how he opened you up and. I saw what was complicated. There's no playbook, Josh, for that surgery. There was no previous surgery. Like what Dr. Walsh did to you. There was no previous surgery. I guarantee you that he's ever done. That was like that. Most surgeons would have opened you up and saw how complicated it was. And they would have sewn you back up and sent you home and said, there's nothing we can do. He's like, Dr. Walsh, he did things that day. You don't realize it six weeks later, but he did things that day that I guarantee you no surgeon would have even tried. He did things that day on the operating table that no surgeon would have even tried. He's a daring surgeon. And he said, most surgeons would have opened you up, saw how complicated it was, sent you home and said, there's nothing we can do. Josh, I'm sorry about your terminal. And I would have been 35 years old with a young family.

Josh:

[37:36] Terminal, just kind of waiting to die. Right. But because Dr. Walsh decided that day, I don't care if there's no playbook. I'm going to figure this out. I'm going to be daring. I'm going to try something. I'm going to do something that's never been done before. To me, it was literally God working through Dr. Walsh's hands and Dr. Walsh's team and Dr. Walsh's brain and his mind and thinking through like, well, let's try this and let's try that. We'll snip this here. We'll cut that there.

Josh:

[38:08] And that's the reason why I'm alive today. And so again, I would love to convey to your audience, David, and everybody that you and I know, and we know quite a few of the same people, I don't know that we as humans step out in faith, whether it's in business or in relationships or in trying new things, learning new things, enough. I think we get comfortable and God doesn't want us to be comfortable. I think he wants us to constantly be pushing ourselves, but our human nature is survival and survival means comfortable, right? We stay comfortable because that's why we survive or, you know, our, our brain is all about survival. So instead of that, what I know after this amazing experience that I've had is that God really wants us to step out and be daring and try new things. That's how we experience new things in the world. That's how we have a bigger impact on other people. That's how we have a bigger impact on business. That's how we take God's word and spread it to more people is by being an example to people. And I believe anybody, whether it's somebody that's preaching the word, somebody that's in business, somebody that's running a podcast. Like I know for you, David, this was not comfortable for you to start this. It wasn't comfortable for me to start my podcast. That's stepping out and being daring.

Josh:

[39:28] And so if your audience and your listeners will step out and be daring more

Josh:

[39:32] often and try new things, I think it's the ultimate way that we can honor God. It's what he wants us to do, try new things and have a bigger impact on the world.

David:

[39:44] Very good, Josh. That's great. Be daring reminds me of David, not fearing, but essentially be daring going and fighting Goliath and he wiped him out. Very good. Neat. Cool. Friends, that's all we have for now. I trust you've been inspired to redeem your business, redeem your time, buy it back and use it for God's glory. Bye for now.