[00:00:00] Dan: All right. Welcome back to micheli podcast. Today we have Alan Pera on the show. Alan is the co-creator and the host of the Science Dilemma, a dynamic video series that explores scientific and cultural questions through a biblical worldview designed to captivate and equip the next generation with his background in student ministry, content creation and digital engagement.

[00:00:21] Dan: Alan is passionate about helping Gen Z and Alpha navigate tough topics like intelligent design, the origin of life and cultural issues with faith and confidence. Alan, welcome to the show.

[00:00:32] Amanda: Welcome.

[00:00:33] Dan: Thank you for having me,

[00:00:34] Allan Pereira: Dan and

[00:00:34] Dan: Amanda. So good to have you. Absolutely. Hey, let's get right into it. What inspired you to create the science dilemma and how did you see the need to help parents and youth leaders bridge the gap between faith and science?

[00:00:50] Allan Pereira: So as you read, my background story is a lot of like, I mean, I was impacted by youth ministry. I also went to school. I don't know if I often tell people this, but like I went to college for Pastoral ministries and then switched over to business. When I finished college, I was very attracted to the arts and my creativity and I didn't realize that that's something that was very useful in the church and admissions and ministry.

[00:01:15] Allan Pereira: And so as I started like learning how to make videos, how to script, how to do all those things, I also was doing stuff at my church. And so there were more conversations had on like, Hey, how do you use this for the next generation? How do you impact them? And so one of the things that I did was I just pray to God is like, God, can you use my gifts?

[00:01:34] Allan Pereira: And then more conversations flourished. My business partner Jeff Singer, he's also a very close friend of mine. We go to the same church and he's trained me a lot in video. We shot a sermon bumper series and I mean the church played it for 14 weeks and then more conversations spurred, we had a friend in the local area that's a scientist and has all these connections and we just discussed like, what would it look like to create a series that engage the generation and how they're consuming content in order to just be able to like.

[00:02:07] Allan Pereira: Provide the, I guess, the framework of how they should be thinking about the topic of origin of life in order to have a launching pad for the gospel eventually. Right? So like so many people don't even believe that there is a God or the possibility of a God because science says so is what people would say and let's get them to ground zero where.

[00:02:27] Allan Pereira: Genesis one isn't like just a theology, but that it can also be science. That's my like digested version. It'd probably be hours worth of storytelling if it was anything else, but that's really what happened was we saw the need, we looked around and saw that, you know, the needs being met by different types of ministries, but we have a specific skillset that would hopefully communicate it in a way where students and families could learn and be entertained while they learn.

[00:02:56] Dan: Hmm.

[00:02:58] Allan Pereira: You know, there's a lot

[00:02:59] Dan: of challenges, a lot of problems, a lot of people that are confused about these issues right now. So I'm just wondering like, what do you think is driving, why are so many people struggling with questions about faith and science today? And how do you think parents and youth leaders can be prepared to help people navigate those issues?

[00:03:17] Allan Pereira: I think the reason that we often struggle with the relationship between faith and science is because we've been told to like, we've just accepted certain things can't fit especially in America. I'm not sure how the rest of the world typically does this, but we love to have our compartments of where things fit and we're not very good at blending them.

[00:03:37] Allan Pereira: And sometimes you need to realize that stuff blends a lot. There's a lot more blurry lines than there are fixed lines. And so the relationship between faith and science, or I would even just say worldview in science, right? Because even atheism is a faith. It's a faith in a miracle with no guided process and no intelligence, but the miracle still has to happen.

[00:03:57] Allan Pereira: And so I would say the whole conversation of like worldview and science being at odds is something that has really been promoted by the people that don't want our worldview to exist when it comes to like there being a being or God or an entity, right? And so the reality is that a lot of times their worldview is driving their science.

[00:04:20] Allan Pereira: Which is I don't believe that there can be supernatural. So let me completely get rid of that and let me just go into the natural. But that limits you, that limits what you believe about science, that limits how you'll interact with science. And so I don't know if I'm like going completely on a rabbit trail from your original question, but I think that, that's the biggest struggle and the way that.

[00:04:42] Allan Pereira: I think youth leaders, pastors, parents can be engaging in this conversation is just looking at different resources. There's a good podcast that gets kids started. Her name's Nat Theo, and what she does is she takes the natural world and uses that to then back up with theology.

[00:05:02] Allan Pereira: And so it's for your younger kids, like fifth grade and less. But it's getting them to understand, like, this is what Romans one talks about, is that creation points to a great designer. It points us to Jesus and that he's a good God and that he made us, that then has to turn into worship.

[00:05:19] Allan Pereira: Right. It can't just stop at yeah, God made it, but that he made it for the purpose to be glorified.

[00:05:25] Amanda: Hmm.

[00:05:26] Allan Pereira: Wow.

[00:05:27] Dan: You know, to that point we were talking about how it almost feels like they don't want us to believe in something higher. And you know, we see everyone's on their phones all the time. We're exposed to so much with digital media that basically tells that story.

[00:05:43] Dan: And, you know, basically right now they said 35 percent of Gen Z they identify as religiously unaffiliated. They don't want to be connected to. Any kind of religion. And in fact one report says 60% of teens believe faith and science are incompatible right now. And it's not surprising because of the school curriculums. They present a skepticism towards the idea of intelligent design, don't they?

[00:06:06] Allan Pereira: Yeah. Yeah. I think one of the biggest issues that we're facing right now, and I think it's gonna be a big issue, is the lack of training and critical thinking. We're not teaching kids. How to think. We're teaching them what to think. And that's what standardized type of testing and teaching. Basically like, Hey, can you memorize these ideas and concepts and regurgitate them to me in a format that I want you to, and that's about it.

[00:06:31] Allan Pereira: Right? And that kind of works when you talk about math, like you need to understand the laws of math and how it works, but then there's stuff where you're supposed to question it. Right. So you're supposed to question science. That's the whole point of it, is poke the holes, make sure that this is like, that's healthy science.

[00:06:47] Allan Pereira: And in the same way. Philosophy is the same thing. Worldview is the same thing. Religion is the same thing. You're supposed to ask hard questions. You know, God isn't scared of our questions. He actually has everything that we need to answer them. If we just go to the scriptures and study them well, right?

[00:07:05] Allan Pereira: We have to have good hermeneutics. But regardless is. God isn't scared to see us and wrestle with us in the questions as long as the goal is truth. And so what we're not doing is we're not teaching children that there's a hierarchy of like prioritization on what you are going to seek.

[00:07:24] Allan Pereira: And so at the top has to be truth. And that for me is like, okay, now I'm not scared if my kids are just seeking truth. I know that the truth will, you know, if you seek, you'll find. And so, if we teach our kids to ask the right questions, then eventually what happens is you do start asking the questions that then help you realize science and faith aren't at odds.

[00:07:48] Allan Pereira: Science and faith are compatible. Because they impact each other. For example, humans are a byproduct of. Random processes that were guided by, you know natural selection. So we just got here because we survived. What does that mean? That means that there's no designer of us. Okay, fine. Let's say you say that.

[00:08:10] Allan Pereira: Well, that also then means if there's no designer that, that there's no purpose because design is what gives something purpose. If there's no purpose, then we are the agents of our own purpose. We get to choose our own purpose. Well, if we do that, then we get to kind of create our own laws, our own ethics.

[00:08:27] Allan Pereira: So that's where we're are today, right? Like where we have all these questions about identity, about how to treat people. But then you start asking questions about, well, if you don't believe in a God, then why do you have these ethics? And then what do most people say? Well, 'cause it's for the greater good.

[00:08:44] Allan Pereira: Who is telling you what's good and why is the goal to survive? Why is that law there? So it really starts to break down. But if you can get someone to just believe the surface level stuff, right, which is like, Hey, yeah, we're here by accident, then they're just gonna be able to also fall for whatever you teach them politically.

[00:09:06] Allan Pereira: Religiously family structure. Now, my covenant with my wife isn't to anybody else. It's really to my wife, if I'm bickering with her and we're fighting and I'm kind of done, and this lady over here gives me attention, well, it's a superficial covenant. But if my covenant is to the one that made me, and he has designed me to reflect him in our marriage and to model what it looks like to be God to the church, the way that Jesus is to the church I'm supposed to be to my wife, which means even when I'm irritated, I need to be sacrificial.

[00:09:40] Allan Pereira: Or even when she doesn't respect my ideas, that she would still respect me. Like those things are embedded and founded. Our relationship with our creator. Jesus is the one that gives us these rules. And so if you get rid of the rule maker, now you have 50 plus percent divorce rate. You have the fact that the United States is the leading country in fatherlessness.

[00:10:08] Allan Pereira: And fatherlessness is the leading issues when it comes to incarceration, mental health, sex trafficking victims, abuse victims, but that's all based on what you just got rid of people's foundation for their worldview. You told them that they're here for no reason other than to just survive and be about their business.

[00:10:25] Allan Pereira: It's hard to put mal intent on specific people because I don't know them. I think that a lot of people just sometimes trust the greater system and don't necessarily like to ask hard questions because they haven't been taught to. I think that this is not scientific, this is theological.

[00:10:43] Allan Pereira: I think that the devil is a mastermind at utilizing humans laziness with how we think. And I think that churches, I think that families, I think that Christian leaders and teachers need to keep doing a good job if they are or do a better job if they're not at teaching students how to think, not just what to think.

[00:11:06] Allan Pereira: Sorry if that was a long-winded answer. That's great.

[00:11:09] Dan: Yeah. You know,

[00:11:10] Allan Pereira: speaking

[00:11:10] Dan: of questions, you know. You hear a lot of questions from youth, and so I'm just wondering what are some of the most common questions and challenges that teens raise right now when it comes to origin of life and how are you as the science dilemma tackling those issues head on.

[00:11:26] Allan Pereira: Yeah. So as far as like questions around like origin of life, the main questions will probably be somewhere around like, well then who made God, which that's a very easy one, is the originator doesn't need an originator. Right. He lives by a very separate type of laws. Because of that, he created space and time and matter. So then he doesn't need someone to create him because he doesn't exist within that framework. Now can we scientifically prove that? No. But the tension of can we scientifically prove everything that are theories or ideas?

[00:12:02] Allan Pereira: They're not always there. We can't even necessarily prove. A lot of the theories that evolutionists believe, but what we can do is say, well, this makes the most sense logically. I've had some people say in the comment section like, well, now you're just appealing to logic, which isn't science.

[00:12:19] Allan Pereira: Where, you know, we'd have to say, well, that's all science is, is what you're taking is you're taking an argument and you're logically. Interpreting it and saying, this is the most plausible outcome or the most plausible root or cause. And so that'd be one who created God. Another one I think is the problem of evil.

[00:12:41] Allan Pereira: So yeah, God made us, but why is there evil and why does he allow evil to happen and, and why would he have allowed Eve to do the wrong thing? That then puts us in a broken system, which again, isn't scientific, and I think a lot of times. People don't necessarily have the scientific problem. I think there's a lot of people that do, but the students that I engage, if I engage with them, I'm most likely a student group.

[00:13:02] Allan Pereira: And so they're gonna ask more philosophical questions than scientific and which some people would say philosophy is a version of science, it is a science. But that problem of evil, of why does God allow these things? And answering that question isn't easy because you don't know where they're asking that question from.

[00:13:23] Allan Pereira: Some people are asking it as a hypothetical. Some people are asking it because they're personally going through evil right now, in their home, in their life, they're engaging with the brokenness of reality. I personally believe that you have to engage that with relationship.

[00:13:38] Allan Pereira: At the end of the day, it's relationship. You can have a philosophical answer for it. There are some great resources out there on like what the answers are. As far as the, the concept of evil and the Bible. And if God is an almighty God, why does he allow it? You know, some people love to talk about, you know, well free will for good to be noble, you have to have the capacity for evil, all those things. But at the end of the day, a lot of the times the student just needs somebody to care and they need somebody to live in relationship with them. You can give them the answer, but you can say, but why are you asking that?

[00:14:14] Allan Pereira: Is there a reason? And get to understand people. And I think that's so often, and like especially you guys know like. Podcasting, social media, blogging, everything. There's so many voices, but nobody's being seen. Everyone's just listening to what the noise and we need relationship.

[00:14:31] Allan Pereira: We're relational creatures. God made us that way, and I think that's what people deeply crave and it's why Jesus says, you know, make disciples. Baptize them in the name of the Father, son and the Holy Spirit. Why is that so important to him? And why do we have to make them? And it's because we need each other in order to understand God.

[00:14:49] Amanda: Mm-hmm.

[00:14:50] Allan Pereira: Wow. So good. Yeah.

[00:14:53] Dan: You know, regarding science you know, we talked a little bit about this earlier, but you talked about critical thinking. Critical thinking is such an important skill set to have, and I think. We may be losing some of that honestly. But you know, when it comes to evolution, it's the public school curriculums.

[00:15:10] Dan: They're just basically teaching it as settled science and it really isn't settled science. And so you talked about kind of poking holes and things, and so I'm just wondering what are some questions that you ask or that scientists now that have a Christian worldview and a Christian scientific view and a belief in God.

[00:15:26] Dan: What are the questions that they're asking that. Science now isn't really able to respond. Can you poke some holes in evolution for us?

[00:15:34] Allan Pereira: Yeah. So, three of the concepts that we cover in the series are DNA code, fossil record, and molecular machines.

[00:15:42] Allan Pereira: Dr. Michael b he, he works with Discovery Institute and that's really a great resource for people. Discovery Institute has a lot of fellows who are all like biologists, chemists.

[00:15:53] Allan Pereira: They have a big roster of scientists. And Michael b he talks about this concept called irreducible complexity. And so what it is, is he uses a mouse trap to explain it. It'd be like. A mouse trap can't be a mouse trap until all components are there functioning at the same time. You need the spring, you need the board, you need the hammer, you need the latch that holds the hammer back so that when the mouse comes to get the cheese.

[00:16:20] Allan Pereira: It does snap and then you need the part that's sensitive to the mouse taking the cheese. If any of those pieces are missing, the mousetrap doesn't work. So that's irreducible complexity. It's complexity that cannot be reduced or else that thing doesn't exist or work. And so he explains that what the bacterial jein explains that it is this sophisticated motor within ourselves. It's rotations per minute are insanely high. It is an efficient motor, but it couldn't have just evolved into that. That whole system needs to work immediately. It can't be built over time. And then even if it was built over time, one of the things that they often say is like.

[00:17:00] Allan Pereira: What are the law? Because there's laws to this, right? There's pressure, there's speed, there's gravity, all these things, velocity. These are all laws that exist. Where do they come from? Where does all this information come from? So irreducible complexity is that, it's the whole concept of there's a lot of things that work within our bodies that needed to work simultaneously.

[00:17:23] Allan Pereira: All at once or they wouldn't exist or work. Genetic code. So code in the DNA would be that anytime you have code, and I'm gonna explain this in like the most simplistic way because I'm not a scientist. Even right now, right? We're speaking on an app. I love this app by the way, and I'm just not gonna say it in case you guys don't want to give them.

[00:17:44] Allan Pereira: Sure. But this app in order to function, and it's a pretty sophisticated app we didn't have this years ago, requires coding. Like we don't just assume that someone. Didn't make this. And even then, if somebody did make this, and let's say you were hiring for a coder to create the app, you would hire somebody that is highly intellectual in the world of coding, right?

[00:18:08] Allan Pereira: They're an expert coder. You wouldn't even get somebody that is' intellectual, but they're not a coder. They're a, let's say they're a plumber, they run a plumbing business and they understand how to fix everything in the house when it comes to piping and everything like that. They're not a coder.

[00:18:22] Allan Pereira: So if you had them try to make an app like this, it wouldn't work. Period. Now let's just get rid of people and just say, all right, now let's get somebody to code this randomly. It still wouldn't work, right? And so our genetic code, our DNA. Is it's language. The basis of a c, t and G. But there are sequences to it that are very sophisticated.

[00:18:47] Allan Pereira: In order to make Alan a certain way, Dan a certain way, Amanda a certain way, it makes us look how we look. It gives us personality, it gives us the ability to speak our voice, right? Everything is in that code. Gives us identity or part of our identity if you're Christian. So that being said, how could you ever think that that just comes randomly from nowhere, and it was just random.

[00:19:14] Allan Pereira: And then it's not even just one time, right? That genetic code like that DNA strand, it's the fact that that replicates itself at a high rate and you have trillions of cells in each of our bodies, you know? That concept is coding. The DNA is just that there's never been an app that you've seen that was created by monkeys just striking a keyboard randomly.

[00:19:37] Allan Pereira: It's always been that there is a coder, there is a designer, there's somebody that understands what the end goal is, what function they want, and they understand the laws of coding and how to get from point A to point B requires a high amount of. Intellect and it has to have forward thinking on what that intellect needs to become.

[00:19:58] Allan Pereira: And so for it to just be like, oh yeah, we're just surviving. Well, why would we survive into becoming sophisticated? Humans that can think and build and design and have relationships and love. So that's DNA code. And then fossil code, Dr. Casey Luskin. So DNA code is Dr. Steven Meyer and Dr Berkeley Greer, and then Dr.

[00:20:19] Allan Pereira: Casey Luskin discusses fossil record and just how the fossil record has so many gaps in it. It just doesn't point to this gradual evolution. What it really points is to like these random explosions of. Like the Cambrian explosion, like random explosions of like, Hey, all of these things just appeared at once.

[00:20:38] Allan Pereira: So there's not this gradual process of, things becoming, but rather things all sporadically just happen to come into history at one time. In the fossil record, again, I'm not an expert. I'm the guy. Trying to critically think and talk to experts.

[00:20:55] Dan: So you're creating a conversation though, and I love that. You're helping answer questions and you're helping create that conversation, and you're doing that with social media. How did you choose the form of social media that you're using currently and what led you to that sort of media?

[00:21:09] Allan Pereira: Yeah. I guess I just went to where I'm on for now. I think that we eventually want to grow and be on different, like, social media platforms. I just wanted to go to where I think that parents and pastors and, 'cause one of the things that we had a discussion on was if we want to target the, let's say.

[00:21:30] Allan Pereira: 11 to 12 year olds up to the high school age, well, not all of them are gonna have phones. Not all of them are gonna be on social media because a lot of parents are becoming wise and saying, Hey, I don't think the world needs access to my kid. But we do want to impact those that are educating them. We want to equip those that are discipling.

[00:21:49] Allan Pereira: And so we just went where people are. And so most of our content is Instagram and YouTube. And that was how we chose it. For now, just choosing a couple of places to grow on and then eventually seeing what the Lord does With that

[00:22:03] Dan: I think that's such an important thing to essentially go where the fish are, right?

[00:22:07] Dan: Yeah. I mean, if you're fishing yeah, G said, Hey, toss your net on this side. Right? Like that they weren't having any luck on that side. He said toss it on the other side and that's where the fish are. So you go and, you know, one of the stats, 95% of teens preferred digital and short form content right now.

[00:22:22] Dan: So if you're trying to reach, yeah. The teen market. You go to the short firm. So that's where you guys are. And I love that. The word said that we need to be, you know, why the surface and innocent and doves. And so like, we need to be strategic.

[00:22:34] Dan: We need to take into account, we're trying to reach such and such and so we need to go here in order to reach them. And so that's so wise and that's so. Just such a great choice to do that. And so it's so important. And also I think like there's an ability for them to interact because our culture and particularly that generation cries for interaction.

[00:22:52] Dan: They want to not just observe something, but they also wanna share as well. And so there's a degree of interaction that comes with that format as well. Such an important platform that you guys are using as well. Regarding parents and youth leaders, how can they effectively use the science dilemma like in small groups and classrooms, or maybe even around like the dinner table to spark, like faith field discussions, because that's a really important discussion.

[00:23:15] Dan: Those are needed right now, especially in today's generation.

[00:23:19] Allan Pereira: Yeah. That's one of the things that I'm probably the proudest of is the way that we created the science dilemma resources was that. Basically, whatever context you're in, you can utilize them. We didn't make it to where it's this strict thing that you can only use within a classroom setting or a youth group.

[00:23:37] Allan Pereira: We created the resources so that they're flexible. So let's say you're a youth pastor. You're trying to get your reps in and you're not trying to, you know, have some video, take the space for that. We made the video short enough to where you can kind of use the time that you would've used on like a sermon bumper or maybe some engagement stuff and just play the video and then you can still.

[00:23:58] Allan Pereira: Form a sermon that couples well with that. And then we have a workbook and a leader's guide that would then drive the conversation after. In order to, when you do breakout groups, the kids are able to, you know, just. Really form their thoughts and ask the hard questions and learn. And then we even created trivia games so that you can use them before the video to, you know, just have fun with the students.

[00:24:21] Allan Pereira: I have a buddy that he just used it with his family on like a Saturday for family fun night. And all his kids are different ages. He has five kids and they all understand it at a different level. But really that's what we're trying to do, right? My kids are four, I have two, four year olds and a seven month old, they sit and worship with us.

[00:24:41] Allan Pereira: They don't understand what's going on. Fully, but it becomes normalized to them, right? And then eventually they grasp concepts and then they do remember songs. And so that's what we're able to do with family Fun night, is that you might have a fifth grader there that's not gonna fully understand irreducible complexity, but they will understand that a mouse trap can't just become a mouse trap by, you know, these random processes.

[00:25:05] Allan Pereira: And so family fun. That would be, that is just play the videos, have the conversation with your kids, and you might even learn something too. But you're at least having something that forces you guys to have those conversations. And it's not just mom and dad opening up a science book and having to like, try to teach it.

[00:25:25] Allan Pereira: It's something that you and the kids get to have fun doing. And even the trivia games you get to, you know, have fun with each other while you play with them. As well as we have an experience kit, PDF, where you can get household items and kind of. Take the household items and the kids are able to do activities, that finalize that thought in their brain where we call it like sticky science, like they remember because they did the activity.

[00:25:49] Allan Pereira: So really it's anything in anywhere. There's homeschool families that do it. There's science teachers that have utilized it in their class for like a rainy day. Anybody could use our resources in order to engage their students.

[00:26:02] Amanda: That's such a beautiful method to produce the content, is having options for, you know, youth pastors to use it for a clip and then to expound on it as they feel led to in that, you know, the session or the time that they have, but also.

[00:26:15] Amanda: As a mom myself, of two children, we have a 10 and a 5-year-old, and just, there's something beautiful when a family is learning together. And like you said, younger kids may not know the concepts right away, but it's the same thing as learning a language. We speak to babies, they may not understand the words, but gradually the language development happens and they're able to speak and then as they grow, their vocabulary learns.

[00:26:39] Amanda: It's the same concept of having that, that's that family unit. It's building those relationships, as you talked about before, just that value of relationship that Jesus modeled so well for us. And choosing the 12 disciples and doing life with them and traveling together, sharing messages with other people, is just such a biblical and beautiful way to present the information.

[00:27:01] Dan: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah,

[00:27:03] Amanda: and I

[00:27:03] Dan: think one of the big things too with regarding science, I mean it's a lot of parents aren't. Necessarily confident. Their own knowledge in dealing with those. So they kind of almost really, they struggle. 'cause sometimes the kids come home and they're like, Hey, can faith and science really exist?

[00:27:18] Dan: I mean there's actually a lot of Christian scientists in history. That we've heard of. Newton was one of them. And so I just was wondering like for the parent that struggles with the child that comes home and says, Hey mom, I've heard all this at school.

[00:27:29] Dan: I don't even know if science and faith can really exist. What do you say to that?

[00:27:32] Allan Pereira: So if they're looking for resources, I would definitely say tune into Discovery Institute. They have a podcast and they have a ton of resources and different scientists. The science dilemma is gonna be creating a podcast that will be on YouTube where we're gonna be speaking to different experts as well.

[00:27:48] Allan Pereira: That's from the resource side of things. On a personal level, I would just say your children up until a certain age, and it's different for every child. And I'm just learning this because I'm asking people 'cause I like to be proactive so that when I'm a dad to a 10-year-old, I'm ready.

[00:28:05] Allan Pereira: But one of the things is, there's gonna be an age where your kids will understand that you're not the expert on everything right now. They probably think you are supposed to be, and there might be an age where they're actually smarter than you. And that's okay. Like I just had a conversation with a dad, his son is 25, bought a house.

[00:28:27] Allan Pereira: He already got married, but he bought a house without calling his dad or asking for any help. And at first the dad was like a little upset, like, why didn't he call me? And then he was like, wait a second. I trained him. He didn't call me. That's a win. Like he used everything I taught him. So there's things that you're gonna be an expert in, and if your kids follow your exact steps, they might not ever be smarter than you in those things.

[00:28:52] Allan Pereira: Who knows? But there's like, let's say you're a doctor and you're a cardiologist and your kid becomes, a doctor, becomes a neuroscientist, like. They're gonna be smarter than you when it comes to neurology. It just is a fact. So like, don't need to be the expert on everything, but teach them how you handle things when you don't know them.

[00:29:09] Allan Pereira: Teach them what it looks like to be honest about the fact that you don't know something, and then teach them how to find the truth. And I think that's, so many times, like as parents, we feel insecure. I had this conversation with my wife where I was like, I feel like an imposter. And she was like, well, Alan, you kind of are. Not in a bad way, but like. You aren't an expert, you're not that guy. You're not the smartest guy in the room. And it's okay. And I was like, yeah, you're right. And I'm honest about that. Like I'm not the smartest guy in the room. She was like, yeah, so you don't need to feel like an imposter because you aren't the smartest guy in the room, so you're not acting like it.

[00:29:45] Allan Pereira: So you're okay. And I think that that's the place that most of us need to learn to live in. We live in a social media world where everybody's trying to be the expert voice. And very few are actually the experts. And so we're all trying to like, reach and clinging and become something that we're not.

[00:30:03] Allan Pereira: And it's like, no, most of us are just trying to survive, thrive, and live an obedient and flourishing life for the gospel that for those of us that are Christians, right, that's our goal. And so if we, if we just are honest with our kids and say like, Hey, you know what? Science isn't really dad's thing or mom's thing.

[00:30:23] Allan Pereira: But you're interested in that. So let's go ahead and like, look into it and maybe we can learn together, you know, and eventually your kid might blow you out of the water when it comes to science and praise God that you're able to guide that and sculpt. Them in a way where they were doing something for the glory of God and they're better at it than you are, but you don't have to have insecurity because Jesus is giving you the stewardship to be able to steward them well.

[00:30:47] Allan Pereira: I mean, think about Mary and Joseph, right? Like they literally had to steward God. You can't be more of an expert than him to the point where he's, he's 12 years old and the rabbis are like, dude, this guy's insane. Like, how's he, how's he this smart? And. They had to just be good stewards of him, but they weren't called to necessarily be holier than him, smarter than him.

[00:31:09] Allan Pereira: They were just supposed to steward him well. And so I think that that's what I would say to parents is just, just be good stewards, be honest, and that's it.

[00:31:17] Amanda: Yeah. That's so good. And I think that even goes back to what you said earlier about teaching on critical thinking. How to think like by not knowing everything, that actually is a better way to teach, on how to find information, how to do proper research, how to use discernment, how to look at the Bible, what the scripture says.

[00:31:38] Amanda: Use different resources and that's again, the beauty of having the church community and it takes a village to raise up children that parents, yes, we're the primary ones of our children that God's given us to steward, but. That we can call on others to step in and help in those areas where we may not be as gifted or equipped for, but we know people who are.

[00:32:02] Amanda: And I think that's such a beautiful picture too, of how the kingdom of God is supposed to work.

[00:32:08] Allan Pereira: That's such a good thought too, is what you just said about the church is us forming such healthy relationship with the people around us. Obviously being very careful who we hand our kids over to. But at the same point that we would trust people in a way and create an environment where, you know, Mr. Josh, he's a really smart scientist, so let's go talk to him together. And then your kids being able to be like, can I ask Mr. Josh that question? 'cause I have another question about that.

[00:32:38] Allan Pereira: And teaching them how to engage in that discourse. I love that. That's a great. Thank you for that. I mean, we need to be comfortable with our kids looking to people around us and, and sometimes that solidifies what we're teaching them. 'cause sometimes mom and dad, it's like, yeah, I heard it from mom and dad, but when you hear outside sources saying the same things in a different way, it kind of solidifies.

[00:32:59] Allan Pereira: That's great. Yeah. We need our church community as well.

[00:33:03] Amanda: Yeah. Definitely,

[00:33:05] Dan: I think it's really important to this word earlier being proactive because I think it's really important for parents, leaders, adult leaders we need to be proactive. These questions are being asked within the heads and the hearts of. Really all people, you know, but it's really that 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, like, they really start having these questions because they're learning so much at that point. Mm-hmm. We can't hide from the issue. We need to be proactive. And so we need to be engaging, we need to be finding out what our students, what our children really believe. And as we come to those impasses or as we come to those different challenges, like I said, let's go find the answer.

[00:33:45] Dan: You know, let's seek the Lord on this. Let's ask, you know, God says if we ask for insider wisdom, he'll give it to us, right? Yeah. And so, hey, let's pray about this. Let's find a resource, whether it's the science dilemma or whether it's some other Christian scientist, well, let's go find this and find some godly wisdom.

[00:33:59] Dan: Because if you don't answer it with a godly answer, it's going to be answered with the opposite. It's gonna be answered with science or with somebody that's lead your child or lead a student away from God. So, one of the biggest thing is the power of testimony.

[00:34:10] Dan: You were talking about Jesus earlier and just. Power of stories as well. That's a big thing. And so I'm just wondering, can you share with our listeners, a story of a student or a parent whose faith was strengthened, from the science dilemma?

[00:34:21] Allan Pereira: Hmm. Aside from my own, and Jeff's, as we've gone through this process, especially Jeff, as he's edited so much of it, and you listen to all the conversations, you're like, yeah, that makes sense.

[00:34:31] Allan Pereira: You get a firm foundation in what the science says. I would say there's this one I've been highlighting a lot lately because it was such a cool moment. Somebody reached out to us, asked for the resources, bought 'em, and. I think it was like two weeks later, I get a text message, it was actually a friend of mine that had reached out for the resources and his daughter goes to public school and.

[00:34:57] Allan Pereira: I think she was like nine or 10. She goes to public school. They had done all or two of the videos or something like that on a Saturday, and then she goes to school the next week and timing's crazy. But she gets challenged on it on if God exists and if science says that God exists by like a peer of hers in her classroom.

[00:35:17] Allan Pereira: You know, kids, they just repeat what their parents say half the time. And so this kid looks at her and says you know, God can't exist. Science says so. We came from monkeys. And then she, like, unbeknownst to him, she just did a resource like on the weekend with her dad. So then she came home and she's like, he has more kids, so they're always fighting to tell him the story of like how their day went.

[00:35:43] Allan Pereira: And then he noticed she's beaming. So he was like, you know what, you go first 'cause you really want to tell me a story. And she was like, dad, dad. So she says, you know, the kid challenged me. And I was able to say that no, there's no way that we could have come from monkeys because the gaps in the fossil record.

[00:36:00] Allan Pereira: And then I also was able to say that 'cause there's another concept called devolution not evolution. So Darwin Devolves, were basically the polar bear is able to survive and live in its elements and it has a very specific diet that a grizzly bear doesn't have. And the polar bear is derived from or devolved from the grizzly bear.

[00:36:24] Allan Pereira: But really it's not evolution. It's not new information. It was information in the genetic code that was broken, and so. The polar bear can't go back to becoming a grizzly bear. So she just said the concept, she's nine, so she didn't go into the full thing, but she was just able to say like, no, that's not the case.

[00:36:41] Allan Pereira: And she stood firm on her faith. And so I know. When you're nine and somebody tries your faith and, and you don't know, I can imagine that that is a humbling experience. But in this case, for her, it was a encouraging, like, strengthening. I mean, her confidence level had to be like a thousand. And she was excited to come home and report to her dad, you know, which I guess there's so many analogies with that, that you could use for a sermon, right?

[00:37:09] Allan Pereira: How encouraged we should be to go back to our father and say like, God, I stood on the truth. Mm-hmm. So that's one story that I could probably say is my favorite one right now. Wow.

[00:37:21] Dan: That's that's a powerful one too. So that leaves us as we begin to wind down here as we what is that? I mean, that's certainly, an amazing story. That's like the million dollar question.

[00:37:31] Dan: Like how do you hope the science dilemma. Changes the way young people see science and faith. What do you hope that the listener and the viewer ultimately take away from the show?

[00:37:40] Allan Pereira: This is me being like very frank. Our series doesn't talk about Jesus in the four episodes because it is meant to start the conversation that there is the possibility for there to be a great designer period. Because if we're discussing as Christians, if we go into the public square and we talk to which the public score these days is social media, talk to other people and they don't believe that there can be anything supernatural, period.

[00:38:08] Allan Pereira: We need to at least get them there and then build on that and get them to Jesus, right? And so that's what Paul did, right? Paul went and he said, Hey to the Greeks, I know the God that you guys are trying to worship the unknown God. And so he built on what their worldview already was and then got them to then say, you know, I know who the unknown God is, and he explained who Jesus is.

[00:38:32] Allan Pereira: So. In the same way with the science of LA movie, we want to equip students families. Pastors with the ability to take these concepts that are useful not only in the church, but they're useful in the public square. And so it's basically just teaching you what can science say about there being an originator of life, a designer.

[00:38:53] Allan Pereira: And then that should just be like a tool belt to everything that, you know, theologically and scripturally. 'cause we already know churches have the Bible. We already know that you are. Equipping your students and families with Bible verses with biblical context, with doctrine. And so if you have all that history too, if you have all that.

[00:39:14] Allan Pereira: I need to give you science, but I need to give it to you, not in a way that someone would discredit you because you're putting a Christian spin to it. I need to give it to you. Where you're able to go in the public square and say, no, this is just the scientific fact is that genetic code is extremely sophisticated and typically when you look at anything sophisticated that's not chaotic and it is orderly.

[00:39:36] Allan Pereira: It has an originator, it has a coder, it has a designer. My goal is that we would equip families with that ability so that when they do go into public school, we're gonna be persecuted, we're gonna be mocked, but they're not just left hanging with, Hey, this is what my church says.

[00:39:52] Allan Pereira: Because that's what we saw a lot in our man on the street interviews was Christian, or not Christian. People just didn't think a lot about what they believe. My mom and dad said, so my school said, so, my church said, so my professor said so, and it wasn't this like, well, no, this is what the science says, you know?

[00:40:14] Allan Pereira: Whereas I think that Christians should, we're always gonna be held to higher standard. The world's always gonna hold us to higher standard, regardless if we want it or not. They're gonna make us have to be on our Ps and Qs. So we might as well come with our Ps and Qs, you know.

[00:40:25] Amanda: Yeah. Even Jesus himself did that to his disciples.

[00:40:29] Amanda: He said, some people say, I'm Elijah. Some people say, I'm this person. Yeah. Who do you say I am? He asked them specifically and they had to come to that conclusion on their own. And that is an important thing for each of us as believers to do as, to be able to think critically and reach those conclusions based off of what is true.

[00:40:49] Dan: Yeah, so I mean really go where the fish are, which is what you guys are doing, and start with where the fish are, you know, start with where they are. Like theologically, don't try to. Introduce concepts that they're not ready to accept. Right? Yeah. And so you gotta start where they're at and build off of that, which is so amazing.

[00:41:06] Dan: I love how you guys are doing that and you're doing that so well. We always like to ask a few questions here at the end just to kind of Okay. To wrap it up. A couple funny questions here and I know that you brought up the man on the street interviews, and so I'm just wondering like, what is the most hilarious or unexpected answer that you've ever gotten in one of your.

[00:41:21] Dan: Men on those three interviews. And did it make the final cut?

[00:41:25] Allan Pereira: Definitely made the final cut. It was in the first episode. There's two. All right. There's one. It was some guys that, I don't know what their story is, but they were just a little off.

[00:41:38] Allan Pereira: But the thing is, i'm saying all this to preface it so that people don't think that I'm either judgemental or they don't judge me. I treat everybody with compassion and everybody is an image bearer of God, regardless if they're intoxicated or not, regardless if they're not mentally at a hundred percent or less.

[00:41:56] Allan Pereira: Everybody is worthy of our respect, our honor, and our love. That being said, when I did engage with people. Because we're out and about, you have a plethora of people. And so one of the things that we did wanna present and represent was that we're gonna treat everybody fairly and the same. And so if somebody is off their rocker, as some people would say they still get the love and respect and conversation.

[00:42:24] Allan Pereira: Because we need our students to see that so many of us try to protect our students so much from like, how the world is. And then when they go out there and meet a guy and the guy is spazzing out, they don't know what to do. You know? Yeah. There was this guy, his name's Jeffrey, and he just yelled the Lord's Prayer. I was interviewing a guy and he came up behind me and he just went in and just yelled the Lord's Prayer at the top of his lungs. I loved it. 'cause I was like number one, Jeffrey knows the Lord's Prayer. No matter what state he is in, he knows the Lord's Prayer, which is great. And it was just funny. It was a funny moment and I was just like, thank you Jeffrey. I don't even know what that was, but that was such a random, and then I just went back into the interview with another guy.

[00:43:03] Allan Pereira: So that was one and this other one guy, this didn't fully make the cut. This is same episode, same area. This is actually right after the Jeffrey moment. This guy, I walked up to him and I asked him like, Hey, where do you think everything came from? And he just starts going in on like, Hey, follow me on Instagram at soandso.

[00:43:26] Allan Pereira: Follow me on TikTok at soandso. Check out my YouTube page. Oh, I'm also on this. Didn't even answer the question Still. And then I'm like, all right, cool. Yeah, for sure. For sure, for sure. So what do you think? And then the guy was like, oh, it could be aliens, could be dinosaurs, could be Adam and Eve.

[00:43:44] Allan Pereira: Who knows? But it was funny to me 'cause it was just like, this is literally the generation we're in is where it's like, before we get to anything, follow me.

[00:43:53] Dan: Truly,

[00:43:54] Allan Pereira: truly. Those are the funny, funny moments.

[00:43:56] Dan: So now we've got the final cuts, we've got the episodes created. If you're stuck on a deserted island, you can only bring one episode of the science dilemma with you.

[00:44:03] Dan: Which one would you choose to keep you entertained and why?

[00:44:07] Allan Pereira: To keep me entertained. That's a tough one. I'd say it'd be episode, was it episode three? Just because that's the one with two of the scientists. So I have two different narratives that like playing into. So that would be the code in the DNA episode with Dr.

[00:44:25] Allan Pereira: Steven Meyer and Dr. Berkeley Greer . alright,

[00:44:28] Dan: awesome. I love it. The longest one. That's a good choice. That's a good choice. Well, awesome. The show listeners, again, the science dilemma. If you can find it, we'll have those on the show notes for you, man, Alan, what an awesome opportunity to have you on the show today.

[00:44:45] Dan: And we just pray just blessing over you guys. We thank you so much for answering these questions that are being asked and you're doing it in a way that's appealing to those who are asking those questions. So thank you for being faithful to that and we just are excited to see how God continues to work and use you, Alan, and use the science dilemma.

[00:45:03] Allan Pereira: Thank you so much and thank you guys for your ministry as well. Amen. Thank you.