of people who are black, brown, and immigrants, And a large number of people who have been stagnant, thinking that they have lost something. So I've said this for a long time, that when you are looking left and right, and suddenly, the people who you think are supposed to be behind you are moving ahead of you, you think you've lost ground, and you simply have not moved. And when people then have the opportunity to blame that on someone, There's all like the pendulum is going to swing in one direction or the next.

The award winning A Black Executive Perspective podcast presents Pull Up, Speak Up. More meaningful conversations drive progress, and every voice makes a difference. So what's on the table for discussion today?

It's time to show up, speak up, and get real. Welcome to Pull Up, Speak Up, a new series from Black Executive Perspective podcast, your safe space for raw. Unfiltered and honest discussions on the tough issues many shy away from. I'm your host, Tony Tidbit.

And I'm your co host, Chris P. Reed. Before we start this episode, I'd like to first begin by taking it, making a shout out to our partners at CodeM Magazine. Check out CodeM Magazine, whose mission is saving the black family by first saving the black man. That is CODE M magazine, two M's dot com. Check them out.

Yeah, definitely check them out and check out our round table today. They will provide their perspectives on a shocking assassination, the birthright citizenship debate, and the broader implications of presidential clemency.

Let me introduce our round table to this audience. And so today's round table, we'll bring together a dynamic group of leaders with unique perspectives. First foremost, we'll be Tauri Laws Phillips. Laws Phillips, uh, is co, I'm sorry, CEO of Austin 100, a visionary leader in brand marketing, strategic brand development, and creative storytelling known for championing diversity within the industry. Tauri Laws Phillips, welcome to Pull Up, Speak Up.

Hey, how's it going?

All right. Next we have Majken Zylik, a seasoned sales and marketing professional with a strong background in client relationship management and strategic consulting. Welcome to Pull Up, Speak Up.

Thanks for having me.

And rounding out this fabulous panel is Mario Ficarra, an accomplished advertising industry executive with deep expertise in strategic planning, client leadership, and media innovation. Mario, welcome to Pull Up, Speak Up.

Thanks for having me. Great to be here.

Let, let me, let me start by kind of setting the baseline with you guys. Uh, and I'll start with you, Mario, since I ended there. Uh, Mario, can you tell us where you're currently residing and where your family is at this point in time?

Sure, I'm in New York. Uh, my wife and two daughters live in Rockland County. I have two twin daughters and they're five years old.

All right. Cool. Same to you, Majken. Where are you located recently?

I am just outside of New York City in New Jersey, uh, with my husband and my two kids, boy and a girl, and our beautiful dog.

A lot of East Coast perspective. Cool. And Tauri let us know where you and your family reside.

I will, uh, bring the, uh, differentiation and be the Texan. Uh, I am here in Austin, Texas. I have two kids, 10 and 11, and a whole bunch of fur babies. Cool. Yes.

Well, number one, thank you guys for joining. We're looking forward to hearing your perspective on a number of topics. So the question I have for you, and I'll start with you, Tauri. You know, you guys are busy. Obviously, your CEO, um, Majken and, and, and, and Mario, you know, are professionals in their different, um, areas of expertise. You guys have families. So what inspired you to join the Pull Up, Speak Up Roundtable to share your perspectives on these topics?

I have big opinions. Uh, I think we are highly affected by what's happening in the, uh, political atmosphere. I think we're seeing the effects day to day, uh, especially in states like Texas where things are happening and decisions are being made and affecting people and women very quickly. Uh, so I think it's time we talk about it. I am gone are the days where it's polite and we don't talk about those things. I

love it. I love it. Majken.

Uh, yeah, I would echo that and say that I feel like recently we haven't been talking about it enough in our circles and the things that we do because people just don't want to get uncomfortable. So I think that, um, I was excited to join so I could open these topics and have the discussions that we don't have day to day.

Thanks. I'm glad to hear that. And Mario, tell us your perspective, my friend.

Um, well, I'm pretty passionate about following current events and the news and, um, excuse me, I'm fighting a cold here. So I apologize for my voice. Um, and there are just probably a select few people in my, in my inner circle that I probably talk about the tops of the day with. So it's, I thought it'd be really interesting to kind of do it with, uh, open up my circle here and maybe learn something.

That is awesome. So again, guys, welcome.

So we'd like to remind the panelists and our audience that we try to abide by 10, uh, ground rules to having great dialogue. And so let me just go over those 10 rules for you guys. Now, rule number one, respect all voices. Rule number two, listen actively rule number three, no personal attacks. It will get passionate. It will get heated, but just remember we're human beings just sharing our opinion as you guys just stated. rule number four. Avoid interrupting once again, the passion is going to overflow, but we got to make sure we give each person a chance to represent themselves. rule number 5, stay open minded. Rule number 6, speak from your own experience. Please. Don't give a story of a story of a story and a derivative of that story because then it waters down your understanding of the actual situation. rule number 7, because the time we have, we want to stay on topic, make sure that we clean off into different things as passion projects. Rule number eight, follow the time limits. A reiteration of rule number seven, rule number nine, challenge ideas, not people. None of this is immensely personal to where we can't get over it and learn from each other at this point in time, which leads us to the last rule. rule number 10, no butts. Anytime somebody interjects a but it tends to diminish what the person was saying beforehand. So try your best not to include buts. And if we follow those 10 rules, we'll have a great conversation today.

Thanks, Chris. So you guys heard the ground rules. So can I get a thumbs up from each person that you guys agree with the ground rules and you're willing to participate? That is awesome. So now this is a safe space. So let's finally talk about it. So Majken, and I'm going to come to you on this first question. Obviously we are Seven weeks away from the election on November 5th, uh, Donald Trump being elected the president of the United States. So I would love to hear what is your reaction and what was your reaction about him being elected to, uh, the president again?

So I, to answer that question, I always have to compare it to the first time he was elected. Um, I was overwhelmed by just. Shock and then sadness. Obviously, I'm showing my perspective already. However, uh, this time around, uh, I've been surrounded by people that are on one side versus the other. And I wasn't surprised this time. I, I, I don't know why I would speak to somebody on the other side who would say, Nope, he's not going to win. He's not going to win. Uh, and I just had this feeling. So when. I started seeing the results, I just literally went to bed because I just couldn't watch it anymore. And then I woke up to my daughter like sobbing. So I was consoling her. Meanwhile, having that, you know, figure out what to tell her and how to get her into the future thought process, not worrying about it. That's right. A long winded answer, but

no, no, no, it's all good. How old is your daughter?

She's 15.

Okay, got it. So she's definitely engaged as well. Mario, your initial reaction.

I wasn't shocked. I wasn't surprised. I think, um, you know, I felt I think like Majken and did about the first, uh, first time he ran. and one in 2016. This time around, I really thought this, it was, it was really going to come down to battleground states and just a few number of votes. Um, I did not see the red arrows that everybody saw on that map the next day of just that red wave of votes that went from blue to red. I did not see such a wave of support going his way, especially across A bunch of different demos. Um, so that really kind of surprised me a lot. And it made me realize that, um, you know, I, I need to maybe dig a little bit deeper and maybe rely on some more new sources or people or anecdotes because it had me a bit by surprise.

Okay. All right. I'll follow back up with you on that in a second. Tauri. What was your response?

I was, uh, deeply saddened and not surprised. Uh, for me, it was, uh. Gosh, I, I, I wanted better, but didn't, uh, have as much hope as I wanted to have. And so it was pretty expected. Um, and just very, very sad. I, uh, spent the day also consoling children, and mine are 10 and 11, but very aware. Wow.

And, and being sad. Like, why, why were you, why were you sad?

I was sad because I think we've done this before, right? And so, um, the fear of what will happen next and how many people will be affected, um, and how it will affect people is deeply, uh, deeply scary for me. So that's the sadness part of it is, uh, what will. This look like for the communities that I am a part of and the people that I know. So, yeah.

Okay. All right. And then Mario, you talked about dig deeper. What do you mean by digging deeper?

Just, I felt caught off guard because I'm so engaged. And I felt like I'm so engaged and I, and I digest so much information and, um, it's really like to a point where, like, my wife's like, you know, you really, it's too much. Like, you're, you're, you know, you're getting upset or you need to pull back. And so I just felt like I didn't see, you know, you hear about, um. The importance of, um, you know, social media, the conservative manosphere of podcasts and all that, you just didn't realize that it had, you know, postmortem, you see the, the effect that it had and the, um, and it's not just overnight and there's so many factors that went into it. And, and I was, you know, and like, I like to call postmortem core for a while, just going through all the data, the analysis, the podcasts, the folks breaking it down. Um, and I, I kind of just. You know, it sort of was digesting it in buckets of like, well, this is they could have done this and they could have done that. And then then you take a step back and go, but this the sort of seeds with this were planted for years. And you kind of just go back and forth on that, right? You play this game of, you know, he should have pulled out sooner. She didn't have enough time. Messaging was all so many things. But really, I mean, why is he there in the first place?

Got it. Got it. Got it.

That's kind of I'm like, why is even the 1st place, you know, so that's a bigger question.

Okay. All right.

All right. Chris, um, you know, for me, same situation. I, I, I, I try to follow the money, you know, the conventional wisdom is always follow the money. And so, when she raised so much money in the beginning, I thought that that was the indicator that she had a great opportunity. The party was behind her, the people, the pockets, the politicians, the famous folks. Or behind or even Republicans, right? And then for whatever reason, um, that didn't mean anything. And so the idea of politics as usual, or the way in which we have grown to know this country to operate from political landscape didn't necessarily play out for this. So, my question to, you know, I'll start with you, Majken, and on this, um, when you were surprised, were you surprised because you had developed a way that politics was supposed to operate and this went against that or was it just him specifically?

I mean, originally I was just surprised because it was him initially, and you

know,

who he stands for. Um, he's, I don't know. He's not somebody that anyone in my family would look up to, and for that to be the president just seems like the presidency isn't valued at all.

And so Tauri in this election, you know, same thing to you, as far as the rhetoric and the perspective of politics at this point in time, did that surprise you that we're headed down this road of the political path, or was it just him? Specifically that you were so disappointed or saddened. I'll use your term saddened by

surprise. No, um, I think that it's a let down. Uh, because there is who. You think we are as a people, and then there's who you know we are as a people. And so there's a cognitive, like, there's a dissidence between that. There's a divide between what you hope we are, and what you see the best of people. And then, sort of, the dark underbelly of humanity. And I think that is, That everybody wants to be better than somebody and, uh, when you prey on those fears and when so much of the campaigning was, uh, fear mongering, then it doesn't surprise me so much.

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So let me ask you this, Mario, and I'm going to phrase this a little differently. Do you agree with Tauri's assessment that our politicians are a microcosm of who we are as a nation, or do you feel like they can't represent you and the people that you know and love?

You're asking the tough ones. Um, you know, I, I think it gets, it gets muddy, right? Because you're kind of forced as a voter to vote for choices that were given to you. And decided through a whole bunch of machinations and backdoor dealings and, you know, fundraising and all that good stuff, right? Rarely do you get to vote for somebody that you feel like is just like you, that you can relate to, that resonates with you in a real everyday way. And so our politicians Are, I think, look, I, I think a lot of them get in it for right reasons, but then become sort of like corrupt by the game, by, and, and there's just the ones who are good don't get enough airtime, right? Like we're only seeing the ones who are, um, who are, uh, you know, full of bluster and, and, and want to just get the clicks. I hope I'm answering your question here. It's like, maybe I'm going on a tangent, but yeah, I mean, I think my feeling is that, um, you know, I guess it depends. I guess it depends. Politicians, you know, once they're in there, it becomes a different game for them.

You know, I hate to come off as you making it seem as if a politician and good are oxymoronic terms, but any idea is that what you're saying?

No, look, I think, I think, um, and maybe it's just because as, as consumers of me, look, I, I, I try my best to cling on to those politicians and follow those politicians who are pragmatic both sides of the aisle. If you can find someone on the Republican side, I really don't think there's many at all these days, but, um, you know, folks that are, that are level headed. that really don't, you know, give you the Washington speak. There's just so much of that, right? If you watch all the Sunday news shows and I'm 45, so I'm still in that, you know, kind of linear world of news consumption. I'm not on TikTok. I'm not, you know, digesting it as many Millennials are and Gen X and all that. These folks come on and they give you the party line and you're not, you know, You're not learning anything new or interesting and so these people might be good and they might be there Trying to you know, serve their constituents and their people, um, but they do a really bad job of messaging Right, like they do a really bad job of I think speaking to folks. I think folks like AOC are popular because She's really good at messaging and speaking truth to power and being real with people and the overlap between AOC and Trump voters is really crazy, but it's there. And the, the, the, uh, coming out of that, folks are saying, well, they, they both spoke to us in ways that, you know, we feel like they understand us, which is crazy, but that is what they're saying. And, you know, I'll stop.

Yeah. So, so let's do this though, because obviously, Nothing we can do about that now, right? It's over. It's so we got to move on, right? However, he is making his cabinet picks. Okay. And he's putting them together. So based on, you know, you following along, Majken, and noticing the different cabinet picks people that he's picking for his cabinet. All right. Tell us a little bit about what's your thought process of the people that he's putting together. And, you know, what troubles you by all of them or a certain, uh, individual that's going to be nominated to be a cabinet member?

Sure. Uh, you know, it seems like he's just putting together a cast of characters that look like the misfit toys. Because, you know, I would say just recently, I don't know what the percentage is, but maybe it's 30%. But somebody has some. Dark secret that starts to come out when he pulls a name out of the hat and So the question for me is, are they not being vetted? Why is he choosing these people? Um, just recently, uh, the woman from WWE was what she, what she was, uh, Linda McMahon going to be picked for, no, uh, the department of education. Yeah. Sorry. I lost my train of thought. Um, you know, and then it starts coming out about her aiding the sex trafficking that was going on between, um, The wrestlers and the kids that they had interning for them, you know, we don't really know the truth behind that yet and what's going on, but how could a person that's being questioned now represent the children and the people of our future through education.

Let me ask you this though, just to stay on this real quick, Majken, is there anyone that delights you that has been chosen or, or lifted up thus far?

No.

Okay.

No.

All right. Go ahead. All right. So, so then the next question, it's already same thing. Is there anyone that delights you and if not, okay. Wow. Okay. So why are you troubled or why do the pics trouble you in this way for the cabinet?

So, the upside to somebody like Linda McMahon is that at least she has run a business. So at least she knows what it is to be responsible for a large group of people. And she understands how to communicate with a group of people. That is all I can say about her qualifications in that role. I will say that I appreciate that a number of the people that have been chosen are critical of the departments that they have been chosen for because I think that that is an interesting way, in theory, uh, to approach a position and a department to be critical of it. Having said that, nothing else. I have seen from any of the pics qualify those people for those positions. So, as a person with a child who is on an IEP in educational, um, um, plan that is governed by the state of Texas. If you remove the Department of Education, every child on special needs will be required to hope that that state can come up with a way to take care of that child's needs and education needs with no consistency, state to state and no federal regulation around it.

Right. Mario Mario, let me ask you this. Is there any delightful pick that you've seen thus far?

No, I mean, I kind of want to piggyback into what Tauri was saying, because I also have a child with special needs. 1 of my daughter is on the autism spectrum and that is a big concern of mine. Exactly what she said, you know, I think no 1 delights me, but a Marco Rubio is like a sober pick compared to all of these other people. I mean, I think. Trump's number one qualification is loyalty. Will this person just do what I say? I mean, literally just be loyal to me. I mean, he, he, he got his bearings the first time around. He knows now what to do. He knows he needs people in place that really won't question his motives or what he wants to do. You know, a person like Pete Hegseth, let's put all of the the sexual stuff aside put all that aside. Let's say it didn't happen This guy is not qualified to run the boy scouts or a troop of boy scouts, right like he He ran two organizations related to veterans and they and and they just had to be um, completely revamped He had to be uh, let go There was money problems left and right. I don't understand I don't understand Um, you know, we're in a hold. I can't say I don't understand. I do understand why these these people are being picked and I do understand why we're in this moment. I think it's just really troubling. It's really troubling that we're this far into it. So, so

just but let's let's stop right there. You say you do understand why they're being picked. Why are they being picked

because because we have a man like donald trump in office I mean, we're here because of him. I mean, you know, we're here because the country chose somebody That is woefully unqualified to run the country and they did that in 16 and they decided to do it again It's baffling.

Well, okay. So I got it. I want to challenge you on that. Oh, yeah, because I just because he's running again doesn't mean so let's I just want to go back to what Tauri said. Tauri you said 1 of the things that you liked, right? Is that these are individuals that. Um, I don't want to use the word you didn't say to test, but at the end of the day, well, well, they don't, they don't, they're not, uh, uh, they're not going around. Yippee. Yippee. Uh, you're a for federal bureaucracy, right? They're the ones that so Pete has that, you know, he, uh, said if he took over for the, uh, the secretary of defense, he would, you know, change everything because it's all woke. Okay. Linden, my man, the Department of Education is horrible, right? So sorry, you said because they believe that's not a bad thing, right? That's not a bad thing that they want to come in and make change. My question though, if, if, if I don't, if I detest, uh, uh, uh, uh, Chase Bank, okay. Does that allow me to be, um, uh, become the CEO of chase back? Do I have the qualifications to be the seat just because I detested because I think if I was running, you know, people's, uh, they had overdraft fees. It wouldn't be 35. It would be 5. So, let me, let's, let's dive into that a little bit because that's where I struggle is that. At the same time, you have people saying that, you know, their DEI hires, they're not qualified. And then all of a sudden, somebody becomes president. And then all of a sudden they nominate individuals, right? Because maybe they did test a certain department, but they're not qualified.

Let me, let me say something before we go further, because I want to open it up to Majken and because the look on her face when Tauri said that she would prefer a detractor over a lifelong lover. No, I didn't say that. Okay. Okay. Okay. It came across as The thing

that I can appreciate is that at least these people knew those departments existed and were critical of

them. So I think that it's an

interesting point of view to at least be critical of it.

Okay, cool. Cause yeah, your face, your face, when she said that was like, no, I want somebody that loves it, that educated in it, that grew up in it and that wants it to be as best as it could be.

Yeah, I respect that. Um, I, no, I was just saying, I respect that we're trying to find a silver lining in all of this, right? Like, like any of this is in our control, but I think my face was more about, you know, yeah, maybe she can run a business, but do we really know how well she ran her business and how many secrets did she tell? Turn turn her back to or how many things did she just turn her back to that? She would do the same in the department of education.

Go ahead. Sorry, Tony. I will only say to add color. I think personally, Linda McMahon is on like the fastest train to H E double hockey sticks upon her death. Like there was nothing good, good that that woman's doing. However, at least she like has run a ship before and she knows that the department of education exists. That's all. Sorry, right? No, no, no, no, no, no. Let

me just let me ask you guys this question. Did these people get picked for qualifications or did they get picked based on loyalty? Mario,

um, I think with very key cabinet spots, it's more loyalty. Something like the Department of Education. Linda McMahon was already, I think, head of the small business administration in the 1st Trump administration. Small business association is part of the first Trump administration, I believe. So she already has a bit of like administration kind of Washington know how. Right. Um, but I, I think, you know, not every cabinet position is the same. I mean, let's be honest, secretary of defense is much more important. Then, then maybe the secretary of agriculture, but again, though,

my question, did they get picked based on loyalty on qualifications

depends on the spot. I think he trumped, he chose loyalty over qualifications and really important spots that he needs it.

Okay. Majken and same

question. Yeah. Same. I was just going to agree with that. I think, you know, earlier I was. Someone interrupting by saying all these people are pawns, you know, he, um, is expecting loyalty and he can get favors back that he needs in the important spots. And maybe he's just sprinkling over the things that are less important. So I agree with you.

Got it. Got it. Got it. Well, listen, here's the thing, though. You know, our country has a lot of different wards. There's a lot of different things that needs fixing. And one of them is the health care system. Okay. And then, as you guys know, back on December 4th, Brian Thompson, who was the CEO, He was the CEO Of United healthcare was in New York City for a conference, and then he got shot in the back and he, he passed away. He was assassinated to be fair. Right? And so here's some of the things that's been happening since his assassination. Now, obviously, when people are murdered. In cold blood, the first thing that we all do as citizens or human beings is like, I can't believe that I, my heart goes out to the family. You know, I, you know, now there's 2 kids. That's fatherless. There's a wife that doesn't have a husband. You know, it's horrible. However, that has not been the public's reaction. Okay. And so here, here's a quote that came out of the Wall Street Journal, right? So thousands and thousands of people after he was shot and murder was posting. I'm sorry. Prior authorization is required for thoughts and prayers. Okay. There was another person who wrote, does he have a history of shootings denied coverage? Okay. So instead of the public being sympathetic to somebody being murdered, they're actually excited and happy because of the situations that they've been dealing with when it comes to their personal healthcare. So Tauri the question I have for you. What does that reveal about us as human beings when somebody is murdered? Okay. But the public is excited and cheering and actually made the, the, the murder suspect a hero because of the industry that this person is in from his own company that he's running. These people feel that this healthcare industry is so bad and it needs to be changed, that they're excited that somebody murdered the CEO of who's leading the company.

I think that in the last few years, you've seen a change as people have died, a change in especially, uh, millennials. And, uh, and younger, recognizing the bad parts of that person's life. And I think that that shift in, uh, our point of view means that how you lived means that then that's how you die. And less people are sad that you are gone if you have affected lives in bad ways. And so I think kids now, uh, I'll call them kids because I am older than a millennial, are not interested. And don't feel so bad when you die if you legally affected the death of hundreds of thousands and possibly millions of people. There's just not, it's too bad the way he went, is what I'm hearing from younger friends. But they are, it is a footnote to the day for them,

Majken. And what's your thoughts on that?

Yeah, I mean, I, I just, I think the whole thing is wrong. Um, there's no answer where somebody's assassinated. Um, and, you know, from what I understand, he's been the CEO since 2020 healthcare has been a shady business for a very long time. I mean, we don't know that this guy, you know, he's the CEO, but what are CEOs really doing with the day to day and the policies? You know, has he, has he. Has he seen the numbers of people that have been rejected? Maybe he has, but we don't know that he wasn't Working like here and there to make some change So, um, I I think the fact that people are calling Um, Luigi, a hero is just disgusting. Um,

no. Well, thanks Mario. And just so we clear his, the, um, suspect is Luigi Mangione. I think that's the name of the person who actually got arrested for the murder of Brian Thompson. Mario, what's your thoughts?

Obviously no justification for murder assassination. Um, just to go back to Majken and the point that you were making, um, you know, I don't know. Obviously. This, the CEO wasn't, you know, um, getting up every morning and deciding, you know, how many people can I, you know, sort of deny health care today. So, so that they can die. But he, it does seem like. When you put profit motive in front of people's well being things like, you know, using a I to make your claims more efficient and make decisions on who gets, you know, who gets paid and who doesn't who gets care and who doesn't that is in, you know, in service of a stock price. Right? And that's kind of what he did. I mean, he really increased their revenue over the last 5 years that he was CEO. There's a way to do it. Besides, right. Right. Killing the man.

Um,

you know, we are in a really hard in society and I was, well, I saw something earlier. It was a young woman on social media. I came across it and she said, you know, what do you older people expect? You, you had us grow up in a generation of gun violence where you normalized it. I've been doing, you know, gun violence drills since I'm a young child. And so, you know, that was a, a, a sort of like a wow moment for me to go, yeah, you know, it kind of makes sense. I didn't grow up that way, but so many kids. Have grown up where they've had to hide under desks and guns are just the norm and seeing violence like this, they've become pretty much desensitized to it. I think maybe in society, too.

So, so here's a situation from a societal perspective. I grew up in a situation where conflict resolution was mandated because if I had 6th grade, we would go to the principal's office and they would say who did what and blah, blah. And now we're in a zero tolerance policy. Of the world where everybody's getting suspended. Nobody's getting spoken with, nobody's getting counseled on how to resolve conflict, but any idea of, and I reject the term assassination, because I don't think a title gives you the right to be considered assassinated. For example, if someone to unfortunately attack Tauri and she's a CEO, she wasn't assassinated. But, but, but the reality of it is. You Mario Tauri, are you Majken and are more than your employment. I hope, would you, would any of you disagree with this? Correct. So, when you sign up to be the, uh, arbiter of this employment status. I don't understand how that then also aligns you with the responsibilities. That are held by the entire industry or the entire company. Go ahead. Sorry,

because you are the CEO, my job to decide the mission, vision values of the organization that I lead. If there is something happening on my watch that I don't know about that is happening consistently, I'm reporting the numbers, but I don't know how the numbers came in. Come on now, Chris. Come on. I'm not saying any of this is okay, but, and sorry, Tony, I'm interrupting you again. We also live in a society where some killers are celebrated. Yesterday, Daniel Petty went, was invited to a football game by the president. And so Some people are mad that we are upset about this, that there's a whole bunch of people celebrating this killer. And which also, let's also separate there's celebration and then there's just the feral nature of women being like, Oh wait, he's a killer, but he's cute. He's cute. Girls are gonna be girls. Uh, hormones for men are the same, right? Listen, sir, you have how many degrees and your family makes what? Why did you do that? You could have been the top pick on Bumble, but I digress. But I just mean that like, the callousness happens in both directions. So if we are upset about him, we also, also have to recognize that some killers, depending on who they killed, are celebrated by. The president, and given that opportunity,

yeah, I mean, look, that's a good point. Right? And just so everybody's on the same page, because obviously there could be people listening to this as in Des Moines, Iowa, and doesn't know who Dan Daniel Petri is. Right? So he was somebody that was, uh, was on the subway. He, uh, intervened where there was, uh, a person on the subway that was acting erratically. He put him in a chokehold and the guy ended up dying. They, they, um, basically, uh, charged him with, I don't want to say murder, but manslaughter. And he was able to get off, right? And so that was the person that Tauri was talking about that was in the president's box at the Army Navy game. Here's the thing though. The one thing though, I wanted to state about this. Is that look, 2 things can be right at the same time. Okay. And the 1st thing, I don't care what the circumstances are. Right? There still is a human being that was killed and I will use the word assassinated regardless of his title. When somebody hunts you down because of your title. Okay. Because you're leading something that they feel that you. Are affecting their lives, which at the end of the day, when you really dive into the Luigi's background, here's a rich dude, I guess we've got a back problem. All right. And that, so at the day, but I don't want to digress. However, so we should be empathetic. That could be, you know, uh, Mario, that could have been your wife or make Majken. And that could have been your husband or Chris. That could have been your wife, right? If she's leading a certain organization, right. And she's doing what she feels they hired her to do. I, I w you would be upset if the world was sending your family, you know, social media means, and your kids are hearing about their father and he's just going to work every day and then they're making fun of it. So I, so number one, that's right. But then the 2nd thing could be right. We've all I don't know about you guys, but I've had health claims claims denied. Right? We all think we have health insurance through our companies. Okay? We think we're covered minus whatever deductible and then all of a sudden you get cancer or your kids get cancer or somebody's really sick and you need the insurance to show up. And then all of a sudden they say, no, Unfortunately, we're denying that claim at the same time where they're to Mario's point. They're posting on the wall street journal, their record profits. Okay. So wouldn't you feel in that situation? Wait a minute. You're going to deny my son's claim for leukemia and say that it's not usual and customary, but at the same time, you're showing in my face that yours record. Profits. How would that person feel? How would you feel if that was you? So both things can be right. It's sad in terms of where we are from a society standpoint. But let me just real quickly before we move on real quick. Based on what I said. Mario thoughts.

Um, it's a sad situation and I think, you know, it, it, it, hopefully it sparks a much bigger conversation about health insurance in this country. You know, when you put profit before people's needs, I mean, this sort of stuff is, is inevitably going to happen.

Yeah.

I mean the same, it's, it's, it's, it's horrible that it had to happen this way. And If there was just another way for all of us to be able to speak up and help make change. And I think that's part of the reason why we're here, right?

Exactly. Tauri you got the last response on this segment.

I, uh, am sorry my mother will hear how unaffected I am. I wish that my empathy were bigger. Um, But I am, I'm more callous to it. I hate the idea of vigilante justice. I hate that. I think the outcome will be more CEOs will have more private security than, uh, more CEOs being connected and more conscious. Um, I think that a lot of CEOs are I run an organization that builds community for CEOs. A lot of them are very conscious and really care. Uh, I think, um, I hope that this gives people a pause to think twice about the decisions that they make that really affect a lot of people's lives.

So when we talk about affecting a lot of people's lives, no one has a better opportunity to do so than the president and the president elect of the United States of America. Recently, president elect Trump had a statement that I found to be very interesting and would love you guys opinion. Can you play that clip, Tony?

You promised to end birthright citizenship on day one. Is that still your plan?

Yeah, absolutely.

Can you get around the 14th amendment with a

change? We'll maybe have to go back to the people. But we have to end it. We're the only country that has it. Through an

executive action. You know, we're the

only country that has it. Do you know, if somebody sets a foot, just a foot, one foot, you don't need two on our land. Congratulations, you are now a citizen of the United States of America. Yes, we're going to end that because it's ridiculous.

So, so let me, let me start with you Mario on this idea and I think it might be hyperbolic to say 1 foot and all of a sudden you're a citizen and you get a social security number and all the rights reserved to American citizenship. But the idea of day 1, this is 1 to prioritize dynamics of, uh, his, his reign, um, is the United States still considering itself a nation of immigrants?

I mean, I think he shouldn't define what we are, right? And I think he is, um, he's doing a good job of giving his base what they want. I think immigration is, is a, is a problem. Like we have many other problems in this country and I think he is handling it in bad faith. And I think this country is a country of immigrants. It will always be a country of immigrants. Um, and I think it's part of why this country is great. Um, his mother was an immigrant. His, uh, forget, you know, forget, forget, right. His wife is an immigrant. His first wife was an immigrant. Um, you know, his mistresses, his mistress, you know, so, you know, and, and he's used a lot of, he's used a lot of undocumented labor that he didn't pay over the course of his, you know, real estate life, this stuff is well documented, um, but he's done a really good job of pulling the wool over people's eyes and he's had the help of a right wing media echo chamber. Um, that's done a really good job over the last 20 to 25 years of, of giving people a steady diet of. Uh, fear mongering and stuff they want to hear that's not based on fact. It's just based on feeling and a lot of, you know, kernels of truth that are just blown out to be, um, you know, fabrications.

So, Tauri I'll extend the same question to you. The United States still consider itself a nation of immigrants. Are we still taking people's hungry and tired and disenfranchised and proudly or should we turn out a Statue of Liberty?

Can you say that with a straight place? You can't even say that with a straight face. No, no, absolutely not. We are not a nation of immigrants any longer. We are a nation that prizes the immigrants we choose. And I, uh, yeah, I have so many thoughts and feelings. Um, I think that a lot of people fall into, uh, perfectionism for which immigrants are exceptional, and which, who's the exception, and who's the, what's the ideal idea of what an immigrant is. And I think we'll always have immigration for those people. And I think if, uh, there's something that makes you undesirable, you will not have the opportunity. And I also think that, uh, his plans will not go as expected.

Majken, and do you have any fear that his plans will go as expected? Do you still think we're a nation of immigrants? Because some people that I know that I'm close to can still trace their heritage back to my grandmother, you know, came here, didn't speak English, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, so on and so forth. And that become part of the American story. So do you feel like this is a good thing for him to be focused on day one? Because he did say in the clip day one.

I know. So I, as, as So the answer is, I think he's trying to make the point that we are not going to be in the future a country of immigrants with making a statement like that. And, but the one thing I think with Trump is he makes these sweeping statements. Um, most of them don't make any sense, and he doesn't even know how he's going to get to a goal. Um, so I think that's, Just something to please his followers and keep people happy. I think we'll see if that comes, comes to be true. I don't think that's going to happen on day one, especially.

Well, let me compound this really quickly with the ability or the desire to ratify amendments. Do you think it's going to stop with the 14th amendment?

I mean, it's going to be. I think it's going to snowball if it does do that. Right. I mean, it's not going to end there. It's just the same thing as taking rights away from women and taking rights away from LGBTQ plus it's just going to continue. And that I think was partly the reason of being sad when he was. You know what? All right. All of those things.

Right. You know, one of the things most people don't know is that the 14th amendment, the birthright citizenship was enacted in the 14th amendment because it was really about slavery. Because after the civil war, after the 13th amendment, when, um, African Americans were free, no. They were not citizens. Okay. So the 14th amendment was enacted to say that anybody born here is a citizen. That really was because of slavery. That's the reason why we have the 14th amendment and all the other things that fall under it from due process, the light, the right to defend yourself, the right, all those things. Came about of the 14th amendment, and then the 14th amendment, other groups started using the 14th amendment to become citizens here in the United States. You had the Chinese. You had a bunch of other groups that was doing that as well. So they were able to use that amendment. To say, hey, if I have kids here, I am a citizen. So for somebody all of a sudden to jump up and basically say, we're going to get rid of that, which to be fair there, that's why it's an amendment. Okay. So you would have to go to Congress. So there's a million steps that has to be, um, um, um, that you have to do for it to happen. But what really bothers me is because majority of people don't know what the 14th amendment is. Why it was established. And now he wants to use it to specifically target immigrants. Okay. Where it was first for African Americans and then immigrants was able to use it. All the other cultures that are here today is because of the 14th amendment. So my question to you, going back to you, Majken, some people I've chatted with, they've said the reason that he's. He wants to do this because, again, one of the things in the next 20, 30 years, the United States, from a population standpoint, will be a population of people of color.

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Okay, they will people of color will out populate white people. So, 1 of the things that 1 of the things that you hear in the stratosphere, this is 1 of the things that he's trying to do, because if you can eliminate immigrants here, other forms of people, people of color, then it kind of, which is still wouldn't matter. But still, then you kind of subtract or pull back in terms of. Uh, traditional white Americans being the dominant, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, demographic here in the United States. What's your thoughts on that?

Um, I mean, if that's really what he's thinking that that's just insane. Um, you know, if that's the case, then we should just start making it illegal to have babies. I don't know. Like, you know, it just seems a little absurd and that point of view before. So that's interesting.

Mario, your thoughts.

I think that there is, um, there's a lot of this, that is him. That's how he truly feels. I think a lot of this is him going along with folks in an administration, like a Stephen Miller folks who put together project 2025, right? Um, you know, the denials about project 2025 and being associated with that are really laughable. I mean, a lot of people in his administration, the architect of project 2025, Stephen Miller being 1 of them, and he's notorious for his speech writing and what he and his rhetoric around immigration. I mean, he's a real. aggressive hardliner on this stuff. I mean, he wants to, um, he wants to, um, uh, deport, you know, anybody. Anybody who is not, um, who's not here legally and if you're, you know, with your family members, they're going to, and it's, and it's, um, you know, I think just the idea that he, he's saying these things, um, it is a result of, and in, and in reaction to, you know, um, this nation becoming a bit more darker, um, and that's been documented since Obama became president. There's a lot of writing on this and a lot of research. Um, Yeah, it's it's um, it's it's him. This is who he is as a person. There's documentation on that too. There's research that you know, this who's been since the days in the 70s of real estate, you know, dealings and not giving people apartments because of the color of their skin marking their application. See, I mean, this is part and parcel of who Donald Trump is the the Central Park five and this is not really far from who he is as a person,

right?

Do I you know, I think he has much hard line people much more hard line Hard line people with him extreme people with him then he's going along with a lot of that stuff,

right? Let me let me ask let me piggyback before you get in Tauri Richard Nixon was demonized as a crooked Person or crooked president, but at no point in time in my history books, did it say that it then cast aspersions on the United States of America as a crooked country, but it appears as if in some of our conversation, we are aligning Donald Trump as a personality to our representation as citizens of the country, meaning his pet projects or his, uh, intimate thoughts or beliefs are now casting aspersions on us as a nation. Do you is that what you're saying? Mario repeat that again. I'm sorry. So basically you're saying that he this is how he is. This is who he is. This is what he believes. Yeah. And therefore we're going to go along as a country with his personal feelings and his personal rhetoric.

I think a lot of the country aligns with his feelings in his personal. Oh, yeah. Sure. There's percentages. You could apply it to the reason why he won. But I think he is a reflection of a lot of the values in this country of a lot of people in this country. I mean, sad to say, I think some of it has been brought on over the last, like I said, 20 to 25 years with a steady diet of being lied to a lot of the time, you know, and that. Is coupled with an education system that isn't giving people enough civic education, right? Enough, enough critical thinking skills, right? Like, to be able to not just take what you, what you hear and go with it, but to be able to kind of like parse through all that stuff. So it's like a much bigger, I think, uh,

Right, right. Tauri last thought.

It is all by design, Mark. So, uh, if you, exactly what you're saying is you couple a lack of media literacy, you couple the inability to think. Think and compute with nuance. And then you look at a growing, a growing class of people who are black, brown, and immigrants, uh, moving up in the world. And a large number of people who have been stagnant, thinking that they have lost something. So I've said this for a long time, that when you are looking left and right, and suddenly, the people who you think are supposed to be behind you are moving ahead of you, you think you've lost ground, and you simply have not moved. And when people then have the opportunity to blame that on someone, There's all like the pendulum is going to swing in one direction or the next. And so I think, um, you look at what's happening now and wow, it looks just like the tea party movement. The tea party was seen as like fringes and they were just the crazies and they've just slowly, slowly become so normalized. And then when you have tax policies that allow. The upper class to go, Oh, my pockets, they will look past. It's the ability to look past all of the bad stuff, if it benefits you in some way. And so that's how you're able to call together a large portion of the population. And so it's either the people who agree or it benefits them.

Sorry, I didn't mean to cut you off, but I just wanted to add that, you know, that that whole tea party movement was, was really something that people said was this, you know, uh, economic movement, right? Like, you know, it was like, you know, the giving a fair shake to the regular person, but there was so much racism in all of that movement, the signs of the Obama faces and you know, that, that you just can't get away from that. And so it's part and parcel of that too. And, and, and that is a big part of what's going on now. It's, it's the, It's the point in the figure at people who are crossing the border. And by the way, it's, that's an issue. Migrate, you know, illegal immigration is an issue. Migration to the country is an issue. We have to solve that. It's been broken for years. It's been broken for years. It didn't happen yesterday. Right. So, you know, and, and, and let's not even get. Let's not even talk about the, the, the bipartisan border bill that was going to be passed. Right. But he put, he put the kibosh on that. So, so you never operating in good faith, always, always using the rhetoric by design, always just carefully kind of like crafting the speeches so that they're really appealing to people's basis fears. It's all of that. It's all right.

Right. We're allowing personal initiatives and agendas to bleed into. Policy in the way in which we see ourselves as a nation, and that's where my fear comes in. And Tony, I know you're going to speak about that personalization of policies and using power. Yeah,

so here's the thing, though, one of the things that, you know, and obviously, you know, we have to recognize that a lot of times, whoever's in power has the ability to abuse power, even though they say. That they're not going to abuse power.

Let me ask you, will you accept the jury's outcome, their verdict, no matter what it is?

Yes.

And have you ruled out a pardon for your son?

Yes.

You have.

That I'm not going to do anything I said. I abide by the jury decision and I will do that and I will not pardon him.

We are coming on the air with breaking news tonight. President Biden has made a decision to pardon his son, Hunter, ahead of the transfer of power to President elect Donald Trump, according to a senior White House official with direct knowledge of the decision.

So back in June 4th, when Hunter Biden was convicted for numerous crimes. The president went on date on ABC News with David Muir, as you heard in that clip and was asked point blank. Would he because he has as being president. He has the ability to pardon anyone, including his son. And he said, no, right? I will not do it. And then he said, I abide by the, the, the rule of the jury and I will not. But then just a few weeks ago, he flips the script and he pardons him. Okay. Now we just got finished talking about Trump. Let's be fair. We just got finished talking about him in his cabinet picks and his, his, his mindset, and he's looking for loyalty. We talked about the, the birthright debate and you know, this is who he is. Now let's flip it. Okay. I love to hear your thoughts on what Biden did. And more importantly, does that erode the confidence of the American citizen? Because now it seems like it really doesn't matter who's in charge, that if the person has the power, they can do what they want to do. Majken, can I go to you?

Yeah. You know, this is a good one. I, I, I think the psych, the psychologist in me is thinking, well, you know, I don't care anymore. I'm out, I'm old. My party's not winning. And Somebody like Trump goes against his word often and does things that he shouldn't. So. Why can't I? Um, so I'm not surprised that this happened and I, it's also the case where now he can do that and it doesn't, if people are losing respect for people in power, I think that's already happened. So he's got nothing to lose really is the answer. And he gains his son.

Let me, let me push back on that for a little bit. Right. And, and, and, and Majken, excuse me, and Tauri I'll come to you on this, but I'd love to hear your response. And Tauri I want to hear your response. So, Is this the president of myself? Or is this the president of the United States? Is it about doing what's best for me and my family, or is it about doing what's best for the country? Now we ripped Trump. Let's be fair. He's selfish. He wants loyalty. He's all about himself. Right. Which is not about the people it's about him. Now Biden's doing the same thing. So what's your thoughts on that? Because it shouldn't be about, well, I should be able to do what I want to do. Or, you know what, I'm old. I'm about to get out of here. So it should be about the people. Tauri?

If Hunter had been, uh, had had the same shake as everybody else who did his exact crimes and he was pardoned. I would have maybe a different opinion.

Emma, hold on, stop a second. I just want to, when you said the same shake, like, what do you mean?

If he, other people who have committed the exact same crimes as his are rarely brought to court, specifically for those charges, unless they are in conjunction with other charges. So like, if you get stopped speeding and you don't have your driver's license, they'll pop you for speeding and not having your driver's license. But you never get a ticket for just not having your driver's license because they needed some reason to stop you in order to tack that on. They're not just checking driver's licenses. So people who get his type of charges are typically add on charges because nobody would know. He has gone through years of this and has been made an example of, which sucks. Now, does, do I think in my heart of hearts that if he were in jail on the first day of the Trump administration, or any day of the Trump administration, that he would be safe? No. I think he's been made an example multiple times, and I'm not interested in him being the first one at whatever guillotine they come up with. If we go in that direction, I think of the Romanoffs at the end of the war and what happened to, like, we still, there's cartoons about Anastasia. This is Russian history for those that are not as big of a nerd as I am.

And I think, I

think hi nerds. Um, I think you took care of your kid and I don't care if it makes it to tomorrow's new cycle. Like, I, I think we are so calloused. That it's like, to me, it's like the moment when, uh, Biden curses and somebody catches it on a microphone and everybody's like, ha,

but

here, here's, yeah. I just, I literally,

here's the thing though. Here's the thing though. I have to push back. I mean, some don't, your word has to stand for something though, here. Right. And so, so now, so now we're in a country Yes. Where I abide by the rule of law. Now, if Kamala, Kamala, just be fair. So what I'm hearing is if Kamala became president, he would have been okay with him going to prison. But now because Trump is the president, I can't have my son in prison. So I'm going to let him go. Right. So it's not about. Country. It's about what's best for me regardless. And no matter what somebody's word, even as being the president of the United States, your word doesn't mean nothing. Right? So if we have that type of setup, so how can you feel? So think about the people that we sit back here and said, Trump said this, he did that. He did this knowing that he's lying. Okay. About a lot of different things, but guess what his people say? Oh, no, he's not. He's this and that on our yards. But then, you know, my mother taught me this a long time ago. Two wrongs. Don't make a right.

Okay.

But today

it

doesn't make it right, but what it does, Tony, and here's the thing. It is also the, what he issued is also preemptive of future charges.

So listen,

and he needs to, I think that specifically, there's a long list of people who need the same preemptive charges because I do not in any way, like, no, he, he cannot trust, like, he has to move forward with what we know about Trump. And who Trump says are his, or who he looks up to. And he looks up to a lot of people that love to, that have, that dole out executions in a lot of terrible ways. And I think that all of us who are sad. Saddened by him making that move. If that's a part of his legacy, it will be a part of his legacy, just as many things will be. But I think if the next four years becomes as dark as they could be, we will be happy that there will be one less person that we will see go in a terrible way. So I think, I think the argument now will be, will net out differently 10 years from

now. And Mario, I know you're going to get a chance to answer this question, Are you at all evaluating the fact that Trump attempted to do the same thing on record for him and his children prior to leaving office? And everybody was cool with that. But now that Biden has done it actively for his son, it is the worst, most heinous thing that could have occurred because it's the same playbook.

Yeah. I think, I think it's, you know, it's ridiculous. There's always a, you know, there's always, it feels like the Democrats are never playing on the same playing field as, as a Republicans when it comes to this stuff, right. It's, um, So we scrutinize a little bit differently. I don't think he should have said anything. I don't think he should have committed to anything. I think he should have told David that he, I think he was advised poorly on the whole thing and I don't blame him for pardoning him. I do think it's a very real thing that there are people coming into this administration who wouldn't handle this case and, you know, a way that maybe a Harris administration would have to go to Tauri. I do think that I he's a dad. Um, there have been many reports of how, how much he's affected by bows, you know, battling with, with drugs and alcohol and the behavior. Um, it's, it's sort of been like an albatross around his neck. Um, and this is just a very real thing for a father. Got it. That's what I think it is.

So let's do this because we're running out of time. I want everybody to go around and give their final thoughts. I want you to keep it tight though. Right? So I'll start with you, Majken, and final thoughts. What do you want to leave the audience?

Let's keep having these conversations because, um, you know, I, I, I'm learning a lot being with everybody. So I really appreciate it. And we just have to keep it going.

Awesome. Tori

final thought will be to pay attention to how what is promised is carried out. And, uh, who it really affects because, uh, it'll be there. We have a lot of interesting documenTauries ahead of us.

Got it. Mario final word, buddy.

Keep having these conversations with people that you don't necessarily agree with, um, doing respectfully and expect the unexpected with this administration, um, expect them to do things that they're saying they're going to do.

All right. Well, look, number one, we want to thank you guys for joining. Pull up, speak up. This has been fantastic. Love to hear your perspectives. We want you guys to sit tight because you're going to help us with BEP's call to action. So I think it's now time for Tony's tidbit. All right. And so it's Tony's tidbit time and the tidbit today, our strength as a nation lies in our ability to listen, Learn and grow together, fueled by the courage to speak up when silence feels easier and to make space for voices often unheard. And you heard a lot of that today from Majken and Tauri and Mario. So really appreciate them coming in to pull up, speak up, listen, learning. And as Majken and I said in her final thoughts. She learned a lot today as I have as well.

We have additional segments on the Black Executive Perspective Podcast. One of them is Need to Know with Dr. Nsenga Burton. Each week, Dr. Nsenga Burton brings her perspective and her information, her education and her passion to a segment that helps us learn more about ourselves and how we fit into this society. Make sure that you tune in to Need to Know. But Dr. Nsenga Burton, you don't want to miss it.

Absolutely. You don't want to miss it. And I hope you enjoyed today's Pull Up, Speak Up episode. Assassination, citizenship, and clemency. America at a crossroads.

We'll be remiss if we didn't finish with our passion, which is our call to action, that we incorporate less. Our goal here is to eliminate all forms of discrimination and to achieve this by asking everyone to embrace less. L E S S. Majken, kick us off, please.

Sure. So the L stands for educate yourself on racial and racial and cultural nuances. And I would add to that, just learn, educate yourself on the world around you. Understand your own biases as a person because they do come into play. Just take in everything.

And E is for empathy, which means being open to understanding diverse views and opinions. And

the S stands for share. Share your insights and enlighten others. Do it kindly. Good.

Exactly. And the final S stands for stop. We want to actively, you want to actively stop discrimination as it walks in your path. So if uncle Jones says something at the Thanksgiving table, you say, uncle Joe, uncle Joe say some of the Thanksgiving table, that's inappropriate. You say, uncle Joe, we don't believe that. We don't say that. And you stop it right there. So if everyone can incorporate less. L E S S will build a more fair, more understanding world, and more importantly, We'll all see the change that we want to see because less will become more.

We want to remind you to enjoy this episode, tune into previous episodes and make sure that you look forward to new episodes that we'll be producing. Go to the website, sign up for our newsletter. Meet us where we are. And we'll try to meet you there as well. Review subscribe, wherever you're listening. Where can they find us? Buddy,

they can follow a black executive perspective podcast on YouTube, Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcast. And you can follow us on our social channels of LinkedIn, Tick Tock X, Instagram, Facebook at a black exec for our fabulous round table. Majken Zylic Tauri Laws Phillips. Mario Ficarra. Really appreciate them being here for my, the co host with the most Chris P. Reed. I'm Tony tidbit. We talked about it. We fought about it. We disagreed about it. However, we still love one another and we love you too. Guess what? It's time for us to get out. A

black executive.