[00:00:00] Dr Renee White: Knowledge is power, and we are all about empowering the mamas of the world. In each episode, we will unravel and interpret the latest research and evidence-based practices for pregnancy, postpartum, and motherhood. As mums and researchers ourselves, we have experienced firsthand the overwhelming complexity of information myths and those classic old wives tales.

[00:00:27] I'm Dr. Renee White, and this is The Science of Motherhood. Hello and welcome to episode 168 of The Science of Motherhood. I am your host, Dr. Renee White. Thank you so much for joining me today. We have got a very big episode for you. It's very exciting. I had such a great time in this interview and I think I had an even better time, I don't know, maybe equal of preparing for this interview, which was reading.

[00:01:00] Reading a new book that has just come out. But before we dive into today's episode, I just wanted to remind everyone that this episode is proudly supported by Fill Your Cup, Australia's first doula village where we provide support, food, and guidance, ensuring every Mother's Cup is full now for all those playing at home.

[00:01:23] If you don't know what a doula is, that's okay. I will educate you. Um, a doula is a non medicalised support person. We essentially help mums during pregnancy and birth, and even in the postpartum, which is very on point for today's episode. Fill Your Cup exists pretty much all along the eastern border of Australia.

[00:01:50] We have got doula's in Melbourne, in Hobart, Sydney, Geelong, Newcastle, and Brisbane. And essentially we exist because we believe in the transformative power of support during one of life's most significant transitions and that is welcoming a new bubba and becoming a mum. Now, what sets us apart here at Fill Your Cup is essentially my background.

[00:02:19] I'm the founder of Fill Your Cup and in a previous life I was a biochemist and I've got over 16 years, uh, of experience in health and medical education. So, we really understand how to replenish, restore, and support you in the thick of motherhood. And it's our absolute promise from all of our doulas that for every mum we pledge to be the steady hand that guides you back to yourself, ensuring you feel nurtured, informed, and empowered so you can fully embrace the joy of motherhood with confidence.

[00:02:57] And it is it is those, those pillars that are really important when it comes to motherhood. And our guest today, and I talk about that quite extensively about how when mums are properly looked after and nurtured and their cup is full, then they can then invest the time and energy into bonding and caring for their babies.

[00:03:24] If anyone's interested in having a look at our doula services, head over to our website ifillyourcup.com, or we'd typically hang out on Instagram. So you can jump over there at @fillyourcup_ and you can, you can see what we're all about. Alright, in today's episode, we have the absolutely gorgeous.

[00:03:52] Amelia Lamont, who you may know as the midwife mama over on Instagram and uh, her website. She is obviously a midwife. She's a lactation and sleep consultant, entrepreneur with over a decade of experience. Now, Amelia talks about in the interview how after attending a sleep school with her first child, Alfie, she became a certified IBCLC and since then has helped thousands of families, mine included almost seven years ago actually, which we talk about in the interview, how to navigate the challenges of the fourth trimester and so. She is very well versed because she's a mum of four, so she knows what she's talking about. Absolutely. But the coolest thing is that Amelia can now add author to that list of accolades that she has acquired.

[00:04:48] She has written the book the fourth Trimester, which, is so good. Like, oh my goodness, I was giggling along and then I was like, yes that is so factually based. I love that. And it is, it, it feel when you read it, if you, if you know Amelia, if you've been following along. She is so straight to the point. It is just the reality of motherhood.

[00:05:16] There is no sugarcoating it. And that's why I really, really like her. I really appreciate the work that she does and this book is exactly that. So if you vibe with Amelia on Instagram, it is exactly her. It felt like she was in the room with me as I was reading it. And I also love the fact that this is definitely a book which lends to the same philosophies that we kind of have at Fill Your Cup.

[00:05:48] And how I also exist is that these are all tools in the toolkit and there's no right or wrong, and every baby's different and every experience is different, and that is okay. And at the end of the day, mums need to have a little bit of grace and realise that we are human. We are gonna have tough days, and we're not gonna have tough days.

[00:06:09] And that's okay. And I think Amelia does a really great job of articulating that in the book and also throughout this interview. So without further ado, here is Amelia Lamont. Hello and welcome to the podcast, Amelia. How are you?

[00:06:29] Amelia Lamont: Thanks for having me. Fully fresh faced and glam after a flight, but um, I'm here and I am just surviving.

[00:06:37] Dr Renee White: Well, that seems to be the running theme in your book, which I have to say I have read and it was so bloody refreshing to read something where you're like, oh my God, this is, this is absolutely motherhood. And I, I've said to you offline, I followed you for so long and it felt, it felt like you were actually in the room with me reading like all the different,

[00:07:06] Amelia Lamont: oh and that's how I wanted it to feel. Okay.

[00:07:08] Dr Renee White: Well you nailed it. You've absolutely bloody nailed it.

[00:07:11] Amelia Lamont: It's actually funny when Penguin publishers came to me, they're like, just write the book. Like you're talking to your friend, like, how you doing your social media? And I'm like, so you want me to swear and be crass?

[00:07:20] And they're like, yes, we want you to be you, how you normally talk. So that's how it all came about. So I'm glad. That's good feedback.

[00:07:25] Dr Renee White: Yes, it's, it's absolutely amazing. Um. I'm gonna read a, a snippet from it. Yeah, course. Um, this is from the beginning. It's long nights and slow days, unfinished meals, and midnight snacks. It's cold coffee and toast scraps. Sore boobs, sore bums, love handles, flabby bits, headaches, water refills, mist calls, unanswered texts. Amelia, you had me at toast scraps, love handles, and flabby bits.

[00:07:57] First of all, we have to start with how the heck have you done this four times? 'cause lots of people, if they're longtime listeners, they know I'm one and done. How've you done it to live? Uh, and see another day.

[00:08:08] Amelia Lamont: So I don't know how I've done it. I think this is what I do. I run on adrenaline, like I've just had two nights of absolutely fuck all. Am I allowed to swear, broken sleep? Yes. Um, and then, you know, we've just come from one sleepy show to up to Sydney. Now we're on the Today Show tomorrow, and then, oh my God, there's just so much happening. So I do everything on the run. I do everything very last minute. Exactly how I've written my book. I had two years to write it, and I think I executed 99% of the book in four weeks.

[00:08:37] Just, you know. Head down, bum up, and just the way I went. And that's how I take every part of my life. Probably severely undiagnosed ADHD, if you ask me. But it works. It works for me and my family, and that's, yeah. And that's how it all came about.

[00:08:52] Dr Renee White: Oh my goodness. I have to say, so I kind of already alluded to this offline, but you birthed Essie just before I had my little one. Yeah. And I was watching alongside for endlessly, but it was kind of like having the girlfriend in your life who's like six months ahead of you and they're like, this is what's about to happen. And so I was kind of like taking notes and, and things like that. I think one of the things that I really loved about you was that you're a sleep consultant, which sometimes gets a rap, like a media a bad wrap.

[00:09:25] Yeah. And I have to say, you know, I did have one particular ugly experience with someone who kind of gave me some crap advice.

[00:09:33] Amelia Lamont: Thank God it wasn't me. Yep.

[00:09:35] Dr Renee White: Yes. It wasn't you and I, I actually, I actually came to you and your business because what I really loved about you and your philosophies is that. You were kind of like, today is today, and if you have a crap day, that's totally fine. Don't beat yourself up about it. Tomorrow is a new day. Right. I

[00:09:56] Amelia Lamont: 'cause it's, it's so true.

[00:09:57] Dr Renee White: Yeah. I absolutely loved that.

[00:09:58] Amelia Lamont: And our babies aren't robots. We're not robots. Yes. Yes. So we have bad days, so our babies do as well.

[00:10:03] Dr Renee White: I wanna know, how did you survive sleep deprivation, and I guess what have you learned from your babies?

[00:10:11] Amelia Lamont: Yeah, I guess this is how my big sleep business actually came about is because me and no sleep don't go well at all. And I mean, look. We all know that as you enter Motherhood Parenthood, you are not gonna sleep like you did before. That's fine. We all get that. But you know, as a sleep deprived mother, there's sleep deprived and then there's really fucking sleep deprived where you are drowning in anxiety.

[00:10:31] Maybe there's a bit of PND coming around somewhere and you're like, I actually can't live to stand up. Like I need to do something about this. Yeah. So that's when I, um. With the encouragement of my partner and some friends pushed me into sleep school and I was like, it's fine. It's gonna pass. It's gonna pass.

[00:10:44] It never passed from birth. Alfie woke literally every one to two hours. He wasn't hungry. He was a big fat baby. It was just bad habits and me being so tired, I didn't know how to fix the problem. So I took myself off to sleep School had the most wonderful experience and it's funny, you know, you say sleep consultants get a bad rap.

[00:11:02] I was very, I didn't wanna go there 'cause I thought they would be horrible. They changed my life for the better. They were positive, they were great. There was no cry it out. It wasn't anything I thought it was going to be. And then I remember I came home and my platform, my business was just starting. And then from there people saw me actually become like a a happier mother, they'd see my face more and be like, Hey, you don't look as tired today. And I'm like, I'm not because my baby's sleeping and I'm coping better. And then from there they asked, well, how do you do it? And then I shared some of my basic tips and tricks, you know, that I learned. And then just naturally the followers grew because tired mums started following me going, oh, she's got some good tips.

[00:11:39] And then what I was sharing was working, and then I decided to certify myself as a sleep consultant. And then from there, we've never looked back. And now the business is bigger and better than ever before. Throw in some sleepy products and breastfeeding products and a great team behind me. And that's what we have now, this big business.

[00:11:56] Mm, of tired mums all over the world. Not just Australia, but everywhere.

[00:11:59] Dr Renee White: Yeah, absolutely. And I can assure you, you helped me and you definitely helped my girlfriend who had her baby 18 months after me and she was like, right, uh,

[00:12:07] Amelia Lamont: What was that number again. I do. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:12:13] Dr Renee White: Um, and so I guess how, for the listeners, I think it would be really valuable for you to be able to articulate, as you say, every baby is different. What have your experiences been with each one of your four children and I guess, what have you put into play with that?

[00:12:30] Amelia Lamont: It's really funny. Obviously Alfi was my biggest learning curve. I had, I thought I knew what I was doing as a midwife. I thought, you know, we just breastfeed and swaddle. It wasn't as simple as that.

[00:12:38] It, what I have learned is that every baby's temperament. Is so, so different. Every baby does have their own personality and dependent on their needs is how they're going to sleep. So yes. You can teach a baby how to sleep. We can all teach a baby how to sleep, but I've got Alfie, who I taught how to sleep and has slept like an absolute dream ever since then.

[00:12:56] I did the same thing with Essie. When you would've been having your daughter, I applied all the same foundations, did all the right things. She slept really well straight away 'cause I knew what to do until one year of age and then regressed massively not a robot and you know, she slept with me until she was five.

[00:13:13] Mm-hmm. And then my other child, Coco, who's the third baby, she's very much the same, slept really well until one and then wouldn't get off the boob. Very dependent on me. Um, we weaned and I think she'll be with me co-sleeping until she's five. And then you get my fourth baby scout who is just like her brother and is like, do not put me in bed with you.

[00:13:32] I'll self-settle, I'll sleep all night. Thank you very much and it just really goes on to show. You can do all the right things. You can try as hard as you want to get a baby to sleep, but at the end of the day, maybe they aren't sleeping for a reason, and maybe it just does come down to their temperament, their personality.

[00:13:46] Mm. But you know, there's things you try prior to that, before you work that out and make that analysis. But yeah, every child is so different, and I think that's why we are so successful because it's not a one size fits all. It's like, Hey, your child's like this maybe this approach will work better. It's also about educating mothers about mental health.

[00:14:06] Like I'm not a doctor. Yeah, by no means, but I just feel like, and you, I know that you agree with all this kind of stuff. You need to fill your cup up and be mentally well yourself before you can put time into someone else. So it starts with mum looking after herself and having the capabilities to assist their baby to sleep. Mm-hmm. And all of that kind of stuff. And then once mum feels well enough to do that, baby sleeps and then the whole family unit gets better.

[00:14:28] Dr Renee White: Yeah, absolutely. I couldn't agree more. Yeah. Um, it's so important for mums to kind of be in that right frame of mind. I think that's something that I really struggled with. 'cause I was so, so, so sleep deprived. Like, I joke and I'm like, oh, there's a reason why they use sleep deprivation in the military as torture, like. Hello.

[00:14:47] Amelia Lamont: I think like if they assess our sleep deprivation, we shouldn't be driving as mothers. Really. Like we shouldn't be allowed on the road. We shouldn't be like, we need someone to look after us.

[00:14:56] Like I'll, as an example, like my kids sleep well now obviously, but I still have only had four and a half hours the last two nights, which is very little for me. I'm normally like a six. Six, seven hour maximum broken sleep kind of person. Mm-hmm. And I feel like I'm drowning today and I think this just takes me back to the days of having a newborn baby.

[00:15:13] Especially the first couple of nights when they're born, they wanna feed, feed, feed. And you just feel absolutely fucked to be honest. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:15:19] Dr Renee White: Yes. What are you, what's your go-to to fill your cup? Is it. Do you have something?

[00:15:25] Amelia Lamont: Oh, it's funny. I get, I get asked this question all the time. Mine is like, I'm a bit of a shopper. Yeah. But like a, not like a, Hey, I need it by myself. A new Louis Vuitton bag. Not that kind of shopper. I just need to, my, what fuels my cup is taking myself off to the shops, just browsing for an hour without a kid in toe, taking myself off for a little, like, you know, one of those little Chinese massage places for an hour.

[00:15:44] I just say every single week. It's a non-negotiable for me. Um, I start my week off with that and I feel like, all right, I've achieved something. I feel like I'm well rested and my cup's full. Something as simple as that and then obviously the other stuff like catching up with a girlfriend for breakfast, if you can squeeze it in.

[00:15:58] Or maybe doing a dinner with your partner, which is very far and few between. Mm-hmm. But it doesn't take much to fill my cup. I'm, you know, I'm pretty much, I, I seem like an extrovert, but I guess probably in person. I like, I'm a bit of an introvert. I love to be at home, so being at home, as long as I've had some stimulation for myself, like doing something for me, then yeah.

[00:16:17] Yeah. I don't need too much to be honest. No, no. Probably. I probably should be doing more. I go to the gym every day for myself, but I don't, I don't have time for that. Right. Yet, right now. Yeah. But.

[00:16:25] Dr Renee White: Just different seasons of life and I think the fact, fact that you do you, I, I, I, I love to know this 'cause so many mums ask me this, but like, how do I make time for myself? Do you schedule this massage in every week? Like it's an ongoing appointment?

[00:16:40] Amelia Lamont: No. So no, it's just an non-negotiable with me that, all right, sometime between Monday and Wednesday when the kids are at childcare and school. Um, yeah. That meeting can wait. I'm not coming into the office. I'm just gonna go and get my massage and then, you know, and then I'll be in at work.

[00:16:53] Um, so no, not a scheduled time. I just make sure I do it in the first half of the week. It kind of like sets me up. Yeah. You know how like some men need to go to the gym and push weights to get their testosterone fixed or whatever. That's, that's fine.

[00:17:03] Dr Renee White: Okay. That. Love that. Good advice.

[00:17:05] Amelia Lamont: Very simple. Very simple.

[00:17:07] Dr Renee White: Um, I'm gonna read you another excerpt that I thought was really quite, uh, good, uh, 'cause we're gonna shift gears over to feeding now. Oh yeah. Yep. Practice makes perfect just like riding a bike, right? Even the most experienced boobies that have fed children before may struggle to feed the next one because every baby is different.

[00:17:27] And on that note, every booby is different. Even your left boob from your right boob. Um, hallelujah. Praise the Lord. Do you know how many times I have to tell second and third time mums that I'm doularing? You know what? It's okay that it's not working straight away because your baby's different

[00:17:46] Amelia Lamont: and, and they're learning and they're tired and they're stunned, and they're a little bit, you know, in their love bubble and they don't need the milk right away. And they might have a bit of a sore head from, you know, their labor position or whatever it is. There's so many variables to it and like what you said, and that's really fundamental in like, you know, breastfeeding success. Is just 'cause they haven't latched straight away doesn't mean you're not gonna feed Alfie didn't feed for the first 12 hours like he was.

[00:18:07] And I was thinking, what are you doing? I've got these perfect boobs here to feed it. It doesn't, it's not, it doesn't tell you how your journey's gonna be, that's for sure. You're right.

[00:18:14] Dr Renee White: Absolutely. One of the questions we often get asked is, um. How long is it gonna take for my milk to come in and what can I do to accelerate that process, if at all? Do you have any tips at all?

[00:18:29] Amelia Lamont: No, I mean, I think it's important to differentiate that there, there is a real thing of some women having delayed lactation, like it is a real thing, you know, um, particular cultures, um, things like that. Modes of birth. You know, we know that women that tend to have a cesarean section, they can, um, that can delay their lactation mm-hmm.

[00:18:47] By a few days. But you know that everyone, what you do, and you'll probably agree with this, what we do see is mum's going, oh my God, my milk's come in. I'm like, no it hasn't babe. It's day two. Like, maybe it's starting to change. Yeah, the composition's changing. But really any, I say anywhere between, between like day three to seven is when you will see a significant change in your breasts and the milk does start to obviously increase.

[00:19:06] Your baby starts to feed. Bigger amounts, longer periods of time, all of that kind of stuff. But there's, there's no right or wrong. Everyone's body is different, and the best thing you can do is just. Switch your baby to the breast. So obviously, like I'm not, I'm, I'm, I'm pro dummy, but in this instance, instead of your baby's crying, you don't just put a dummy and you pop them on the breast for the first couple of weeks anyway.

[00:19:28] Mm-hmm. You know, your baby's unsettled, pop them on the breast, or even just skin to skin. All of this stuff. Even just cuddling your baby, it's bonding with your baby. It's sending all the right signals, creating all the right hormones to bring in your lactation, you know? Mm-hmm. It's, it's all a part of it, but slow and steady wins the race, and I just think.

[00:19:45] Where we go wrong this day and age in the world of breastfeeding? Um, I think we have failed rates. Is because the pressure? Yeah. Like what? Since when was it a thing to know how much your baby's getting? I just need to know that he's getting the right amount. Is your baby pooing and we adequately? Is your baby looking hydrated?

[00:20:01] Are they acting hydrated? Are they content? Are they gaining weight? You're ticking all those boxes. You're doing a really good job feeding your baby.

[00:20:07] Dr Renee White: Mm. I think also, like I see, I see lots of mums, and this is, I'm not trying to throw nurses under the bus at all, but I see lots of mums kind of dip.

[00:20:19] Amelia Lamont: Too much different advice, different

[00:20:21] Dr Renee White: caught up in this, this, this curve. You know, they go to the maternal child health nurse and they're like, oh, you know, they've dipped below the, the, the, the trend or whatever. And, and I look at the family and in some instances I'm like. You guys are tiny people. Like you've got a tiny,

[00:20:39] Amelia Lamont: and you know what, it's, it's really funny. You will see a pediatrician and you know, if you're in a public hospital, even a private, and your baby hasn't met the threshold that they have, you know, you will be referred to a pediatrician and, and if you've got a sensible pediatrician, which most of the time hopefully you do, they will say, you know what? Your baby's born little, I don't expect it to be massive, but it does have to obviously go on an upward trend or you know, a stable trend. But like what you said, there are so many variables and even health nurses will often say, look, I know, I know baby hasn't gained much weight this week, but you're doing a really good job because look at your last breastfeeding history, or you're doing all the right things, it will happen.

[00:21:14] All of that kind of stuff. What we don't want. Is to be starving a baby, which is, you would be saying the same thing to your clients. You don't wanna be starving a baby, but you know a baby that's under fed. Yeah. Yeah. You can pick that a mile away. This whole idea that your baby has to be dumping on weight, you're right. It comes down to genetics sometimes as well. Like mum and dad aren't huge, they're little people. Baby's not gonna be mammoth.

[00:21:33] Mm. You just wanna see it, you know, trending in the right way, um, with the right resources, but. At the same time, let's take the pressure off and it just might take you a little bit longer. Yeah, let's be sensible about it. There's no common sense these days, unfortunately.

[00:21:46] Dr Renee White: Yeah, yeah, I, that's right. Common sense I think should prevail in these circumstances because I do see so common, but yes, I, you, you're right. Absolutely. You're absolutely right. I see these like, you know. Check boxing type of thing.

[00:21:58] And I'm like, yeah, but like, let's look at this holistically, like what is actually going on here? Um, you know, like, let's look at the genetics, let's look at pre-birth weight and, and things like that. But anyways. I, I wanna ask though, like, obviously you have been in this industry for a number of years. Mm-hmm. What are some of the maybe craziest or biggest myths or misconceptions you've heard about breastfeeding? Bottle feeding. Pumping. Oh.

[00:22:27] Amelia Lamont: Pe, uh, like, well, I guess it always comes down to sleep, doesn't it? At the end of the day, like people assume, you know, my people are like, why don't you just give a bottle your baby, you'll sleep all night.

[00:22:35] It's like the most backward trend in the whole entire world. 'cause it's so false. What is true about formula is that we know that if your baby does consume, you know, yeah a formula. They do have the capacity to stay fuller for longer because it takes longer to digest than breast milk. You have breast milk, it digest a lot quicker.

[00:22:52] Your baby will wake more frequently, generally in the early days for more feeds. Mm-hmm. But that's also because they're working in the system of, hello, we need to produce more milk. We need to feed to do that to keep the milk flowing. Yeah. Formula's different. You just put a bottle in and then they drink, drink, drink, get full, and then they drink again.

[00:23:08] But what people don't understand is, is that breast milk not only contains like all the right fats, and this isn't about breast is best, like we, we know that already, but this is about the facts is that, you know, breast milk does have certain sleepy hormones in it. So this is why babies tend to, that are on the breast overnight, settle into a much deeper sleep, much quicker mm-hmm.

[00:23:28] Than those that are formula fed. You know, and you will commonly see complaints from parents. You know, my baby's so unsettled, I've tried five different, different formulas, and it's still not working. They're often over fed because the back of the tin says, oh, you need 180 mls for this age. I dunno about that, but you don't see a newborn drinking that much or you know, a six week old.

[00:23:45] It just really, really depends. But um, yeah, it's sleep and breastfeeding. People just think that if you breastfeed, your baby doesn't sleep. And it's actually the polar opposite. They often sleep better in the long run.

[00:23:56] Dr Renee White: Yeah, and I think also and I think it's a matter of minutes. My understanding is that mums sleep better if they're, if your child is breastfed. Yeah. 'cause you get to go back to sleep quicker. 'cause I think that's the, that's the creature, right?

[00:24:12] Amelia Lamont: You do. And, and it's, and it's our hormones that are teaching, you know, the prolactin and, and the oxytocin that's running through our body. We are able to switch off and get into a deeper sleep much quicker.

[00:24:19] You know, we, we shove our boob in and then we can finish the feed we roll over and we naturally go back to sleep, which is great. And this is where I do feel, you know, for the mums that are formula feeding, there's nothing wrong with formula feeding. I just wanna say. But those mums that say, I just wish I could breastfeed 'cause you, it's hard.

[00:24:33] It's hard. Mm. Formula feeding isn't the easy way out. You're up sterilizing bottles. You're making bottles in your kitchen at this time. Like, that's fucking hard. Yeah, that's hard. So, you know, there's a lot of myths around, you know, the breast versus the bottle, all of that kind of stuff. A lot of myths about the more babies you have, the quicker your birth scared. That's not true. I'm testament to that as well, and I can confidently say all of my patients, it's the same thing. You know, your first is always the longest, your second is always quicker than your first, but your third. Is never quicker than your second.

[00:25:03] It's generally somewhere in between. Oh, and I think that's true. So, and everyone's like, oh, your fourth baby, it'll just fall out. Scout was actually probably my longest, to be honest, in terms of, yeah, trying to get into labor and get everything going and, yeah. Yeah, the actual delivery may be quicker, but the actual labor, it's not any shorter.

[00:25:21] Dr Renee White: Okay. That's, that's good to know.

[00:25:23] Amelia Lamont: I mean, that's not Bible, but that's, yeah. In most cases I love that it's not bible. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:25:29] Dr Renee White: That is fantastic. I, I'm gonna talk about a, a different topic here, and this is, this is definitely pitched to the mums, and I think we've already touched on like mental health and, and, and things like that.

[00:25:42] But this, this snippet really got me. For the love of God, stay off Instagram. You'll be bombarded with five star morning routines and quote unquote how I got my body back after the baby videos. Then you'll start receiving ads left, right, and center. Promoting the world's best weight loss supp and at home workout subscriptions.

[00:26:03] You know the kind that makes you wanna vomit but tempts you at the same time. It's a rabbit hole, a deep, dark rabbit hole. I'm still laughing like I was laughing hysterically with this book. It was so, so good. I, I would love to know, like if you can share with us what was your survival guide for Newborn Life and I guess. How did it, did you plan for postpartum like before Alfie? Or like, it was like baptism of fire type thing?

[00:26:35] Amelia Lamont: Baptism of fire. Well, how's the irony? Stay of social media and my business is social media educated.

[00:26:41] Dr Renee White: I know that's what I loved about it.

[00:26:42] Amelia Lamont: Um, but I try and do it in a lighthearted way and a realistic way. Like, look at me doing this meeting now. I should be dolled up and lamed up, but I am not, I'm a tired mother myself. Yeah. Love I, and stay true to myself because this is real life, mum life to be honest. But, um. Look, was I prepared for it? No, absolutely not. I think I enjoyed the transition from no kids to one kid the most, despite being how tired I was 'cause it was all new. It was all exciting. Oh, I'm a midwife and I get to experience it, and this is what it's all about. I found the transition from one to two really hard. Mm-hmm. That was really like I, obviously I didn't plan Essie's pregnancy. I like to plan. She came unexpectedly, but obviously the best blessing.

[00:27:22] But it was a hard transition. Throw in some postnatal anxiety that wasn't fun. Um. I feel like the more babies I've had, the easier it's got. Not from experience, probably more from the hands of help that I have around me. Like, you know, I know that my kids are older, they can get themselves dressed. The older too, very self-sufficient.

[00:27:39] They're very willing to help with the baby and, and Coco, all of that kind of stuff. But in terms of planning, no. Obviously like the postpartum meals, that's a given. And I know you guys are big, you know, the dos love the postpartum meals and I think that's wonderful. And I wish we could all be sent home from hospital with, you know, a care package like that 'cause that stuff is so underrated and I think it's more. Just accepting and taking the time to acknowledge that after birth life, the fourth trimester, it's not glamorous, it's, it's getting to know you and your baby and trying to tell mum and dad or whoever it is to slow down and actually enjoy the moment.

[00:28:10] 'cause this isn't about, Hey everyone, be my baby. This is so exciting. Yes, that's cool. But you are doing so much recovering internally, which you don't realise, and we push ourselves to our absolute capacity, which is why I think postal anxiety and depression is through the roof as well. One of the reasons why we just don't slow down.

[00:28:27] I think we need to go back to basics. You know, where our grandmas once upon a time had a village. Unfortunately we don't have that anymore. Everyone's back at work quite quickly. Mm-hmm. People are also having babies much older, so grandmas a lot older, can't really be the caregiver anymore. Times have changed. Obviously nothing's the same anymore.

[00:28:43] Yeah. But I think, you know, the biggest take home. From the fourth trimester is you need to slow down and enjoy you and your baby and so that you, your baby, and your partner and learning how to be, you know, new parents together. Yeah. Whether that be your first baby or your third baby, it's every baby's different like we discussed before.

[00:28:59] Dr Renee White: Were there any particular tools or food or you know, something that time and time again you kind of, maybe you picked it up when you had Alfie or Essie and you were like, I absolutely need to have this for the next two or three kids,

[00:29:17] Amelia Lamont: like tools would be obviously like, okay, if we're talking about postpartum recovery tools mm-hmm. Let's say, obviously ice packs for the badge, that's, that's a given. Anytime you have a baby, whether it be your first or your 20th, you need an ice pack for your badge. So that's a staple for post birth nipple shields for, to heal the nippys. It's taking me four babies to realise that you can heal them much bigger than all the stuff on the shelf in the shops, um, by using these silver things and they just.

[00:29:42] Like they're the best you boobies. What else is there? Uh, accepting help from my village. So not being such a control freak, like I've got this, like, you know, when my sister's like, let me come and get Alfie, Essie, and I'll take 'em to the shops, and I'd be like, leave them. They're fine. No they're not. I need a break. Please take them. So it's more about accepting help and just kind of, you know, relinquishing cow or control in the fourth trimester and just letting it be what it is.

[00:30:05] Dr Renee White: Had we, we talk about that a lot in our in home sessions with mums about how to kind of like do that. Do you have any tips for people like, like did someone kind of have to sit you down and go, Amelia, like, seriously, we've got this, let us do this for you?

[00:30:22] Or was it something where you were like, I'm so god damn tired, and the mental load is so big that I can see myself cracking and I'm just gonna have to let go.

[00:30:32] Amelia Lamont: And it'd be, it'd be a bit of both. Like I've got great friends and great family, you know, my bestie Cassie would come and be like, babe, I'm taking the kids. We're gonna the park chill out, you and baby to slide down. I'd be like, no, it's fine. Come stay sit. And she's like, no, no, no. We're getting outta your hair. I've made you some dinner. You just rest with the baby. And you know, my chance to rest would be the baby in the bassinet. And I would just sit at the bottom of the shower and just be like, this is my meditation.

[00:30:52] This is so good. I just needed 20 minutes to myself. Mm-hmm. So it's little things like that that we take for granted every day that actually make the biggest difference to us. You know? Because once you're a mum, you don't really toilet again by yourself. You don't shower again by yourself. Or you do, but you can still hear these phantom cries or you're consciously worried about what baby's doing. Nothing is ever the same after you have a baby, no matter how much you want it to be.

[00:31:15] Dr Renee White: Yeah. I love that. Hey, before we jump into our rapid fire, was there anything else that you wanted to highlight for those who are about to enter the fourth trimester, or maybe they're in the thick of it at the mument.

[00:31:30] Amelia Lamont: Yeah, so get your partner to read it. You know, it's always us, us mothers, us, the ones carrying the children that are like, all right, I need to know everything, but what about dad?

[00:31:39] What about your wife, what about your partner? They all need to know as well, and they're the ones that often get left behind. Mm-hmm. You know, we talk about postnatal depression and anxiety with the mother who's, you know, beared the child. What about dad? What about the partner? They, they get forgotten and you would see that as well.

[00:31:54] And it's really important to nurture them as well. They're new to all of this and they're running, you know, with their tail between their legs, trying to make sure that their partner's okay. Mm-hmm. And they get forgotten about. They're still tired. They may not be up feeding the baby 20 times a night like you, but they are mentally kind of there with you and they're sleeping.

[00:32:09] 'cause you know, they can, they can feel you moving around. They know you're there. They know you need help, but they can't do so much. So it's about supporting them as well and maybe giving them a way to feel empowered enough to parent like you can, they may not be able to breastfeed the baby. They may not be able to carry the baby, but what can they do?

[00:32:25] Mm-hmm. They can walk the baby, they can give you a rest. They can bath the baby, they can do, you know, a dream feed for you. They can change the nappies. All of that kind of stuff. Just acknowledging them and you know, getting them to read the book because it's directed at them as well. It's not just for the mother, it's about everybody that's experiencing, you know, the new baby in the household.

[00:32:43] Dr Renee White: Yeah. Great advice. Love that. Yeah. Okay. We're gonna dive into our quick rapid fire. We've got three questions. We always ask our guests. Mm-hmm. First one is, what is your top tip for mums?

[00:32:55] Amelia Lamont: My top tip for mums is accepting help. Like don't pretend to take it all on. And I'm gonna refer back to mental health 'cause I'm really passionate about this. If you don't feel right as a mother, please tell your partner. Don't try and do it all like we all do 'cause you'll fall in a heap. Um, so being very open, communicating about how you feel all the time. Baby blues is normal as we know to a degree. But sometimes it isn't normal and you need to accept that and get some help.

[00:33:22] Dr Renee White: Yeah. Great advice. Did you have a, obviously before your book, which I suspect will be a lot of people's go-to, but before this, did you have a go-to resource, whether it was a book or a workshop and some, um, guests have said like a poem really resonated, or a quote or something.

[00:33:42] Amelia Lamont: You know, I'm actually gonna be really like, uh, what's the word? Really tacky here. And just say, what's that word? I'm trying to think of? My mum, she's had five kids, so everything I would ring my mum, I'd be like, mum, his shit's green. And she'd be like, yeah. I'm like, yeah, do I, what's that? And she's like, then you probably just didn't give him a long enough feed. And I'm like, oh, well how would you know?

[00:34:02] And she's like, remember I had five kids and mum was, mum was always right. Or you know, the classic, um, my baby hasn't poo'd in like a week. Should I go to the hospital? I'm like, mum, what do I actually do? Oh, well you just need to use a little apricot and pair of juice and a little bit of a teaspoon of boiling water.

[00:34:15] Don't do this. But this is, you know, mother's old, old tips and tricks. Yeah, my mum was definitely my number one resource. And I think also my friends as well, they're like, can you ask your mum? She'd know. I'm like, yeah, mum knows. Knows everything, you know?

[00:34:25] Dr Renee White: I love that. You know, you're the first person that's actually said their own mum was their go-to resource.

[00:34:30] Amelia Lamont: Oh, really? I love it. Well, I love it. People, you know, there's, there's many books are just cookie cutters for certain types of people and you know, as you know, every baby's different. So. It wasn't a one size fits all, and mum kind of was, you know, she's very unbiased and, you know, just do what works, Amelia, you know, stop being so silly.

[00:34:49] Yeah. Sometimes you need, you know, your mum to shake you and say, it's okay. Yeah. Just do this. Yeah.

[00:34:54] Dr Renee White: You're human and everyone will survive.

[00:34:56] Amelia Lamont: And you, oh, that's, and that's, that's her. Oh, you survived. You, didn't you? I know how to look after kids. Amelia. You all survived. We may be like this now, but we did.

[00:35:07] Dr Renee White: Oh my goodness. Um, okay. Our final question. Mm-hmm. And we've borrowed this one off. Brene Brown. Mm-hmm. What do you keep on your bedside table?

[00:35:17] Amelia Lamont: What have I go to my bedside? A baby monitor. I hate to admit that 'cause I never really have baby monitors with the other kids, but we've built a new two level house. I need that.

[00:35:25] I've got a baby monitor. I've got my book now. It sits with the little bars on top of it, and I've got like this little lavender. I tried to be a little bit like Crystally Healy, you know, post birth. I've got like this little jar of these crystals with this lavender spray that I spray in every night, which apparently makes you sleep well.

[00:35:40] Dr Renee White: How's that working out for you?

[00:35:42] Amelia Lamont: Yeah, not so great the last few nights. I,

[00:35:45] Dr Renee White: you know, you might have to bathe in those crystals and lab and to spray then

[00:35:49] Amelia Lamont: probably, probably wouldn't work for me either. Um, I am tired all day and then at nighttime, five o'clock comes and I'm like, all right, let's fucking party. Who wants, who wants, who wants to breastfeed? I'm, I'm ready now. I was too tired earlier, but no, that's how I roll. My days and nights are mixed up like a newborn baby.

[00:36:06] Dr Renee White: Oh my God, you are a superstar. Thank you so much for coming on the podcast.

[00:36:11] Amelia Lamont: Thank you. Thanks for having me.

[00:36:12] Dr Renee White: My absolute pleasure for all those playing at home. Where can we find your book?

[00:36:18] Amelia Lamont: So you can use the links on my Instagram page, on my website, or you could head directly to Penguin publishers and it lists every stockist, or you can buy it on Amazon. Any retailer that you know that you see in the shops, you walk past, they have it. And it's also, at the moment, trending in the Apple Audio Books is the number one new best seller, which is really exciting.

[00:36:37] Dr Renee White: I did, did you voice, did you do the voiceover?

[00:36:40] Amelia Lamont: Yeah, I did. Yeah, I did an audio book. Oh. I spent two days in a studio in South Melbourne, like sitting in a tiny confined room, like a meter by a meter. Talking for six hours straight

[00:36:51] Dr Renee White: because that, do you know what, as I was reading it, I was like, it feels like she's reading it to me. Like that was like, I was like, if I could kind of, you know, would close my eyes with it, I was like, this is absolutely spot on. Okay. Audio book. Yeah. Love, love, love that. Amelia, thank you so much for coming on the podcast. Um,

[00:37:08] Amelia Lamont: thank you for having me. It's been fun.

[00:37:10] Dr Renee White: Thank you for saving my sleep because, uh, you revolutionised the way that I looked at sleep and also. Uh, from a mental health perspective of not being so bloody hard on myself because

[00:37:22] Amelia Lamont: yeah, abs, that's what it's all about.

[00:37:24] Dr Renee White: It was, uh, it was tough. It was very, very tough. Thank you.

[00:37:27] Amelia Lamont: You know, good days and bad days. It's all very, very normal.

[00:37:29] Dr Renee White: Yeah. Amazing. Alright, thank you so much everyone. Uh, head over. To Amelia's eye Instagram page, and also we will put the links down, uh, in the show notes for the book. But until next week, thanks everyone.

[00:37:43] Amelia Lamont: Thank you. Chat soon.

[00:37:44] Bye. If

[00:37:46] Dr Renee White: you loved this episode, please hit the subscribe button and leave a review. If you know someone out there who would also love to listen to this episode, please hit the share button so they can benefit from it as well. You've just listened to another episode of The Science of Motherhood proudly presented by Fill Your Cup, Australia's first doula village.

[00:38:10] Head to our website ifillyourcup.com to learn more about our birth and postpartum doula offerings where every mother we pledge to be the steady hand that guides you back to yourself. Ensuring you feel nurtured, informed, and empowered so you can fully embrace the joy of motherhood with confidence.

[00:38:30] Until next time, bye.