Well, hello everybody and welcome to another amazing episode of the Unstoppable Leadership Spotlight podcast where we hear from amazing leaders and their game changing insights.

As you know, if we can have great leaders in the world, we can change the world.

So I'd like to welcome to the show Glenn Akramov and let me tell you a little bit about him.

So Glenn is the founder and CEO of Akrabov llc.

His expertise is rehabilitating and revitalizing municipal government workplaces and has developed a program that will improve any organization by returning humanity to the center of focus.

So key.

And he is the author of the Human Centered Team.

So, so important information and so welcome to the show.

Love talking about this great leadership.

Oh, oh.

So thank you.

I'm glad to be here.

So good to have you.

So Glenn, tell.

All right, so I got a lot of questions to ask, but I'm going to start with a big one.

The human centered team in a nutshell.

Describe it.

Human centered teams about, about building teams and around the human beings that are there.

I think one of the things we make mistakes on is trying to build it in some box.

And we in human being as human beings are not, can't be put in the box.

The other part of it is about, particularly about the workplace is we've spent the last 25 to 30 years trying to get the emotion out of a workplace.

Only, only we're human beings and you can't take the emotion out of us.

So it's about, it's about letting you know.

The secret to the whole thing is encouraging people to be who they are.

And of course we have rules around everything but be who you are.

You're allowed to be emotional, you're allowed to be happy, you're allowed to be sad, you're allowed to be upset.

And then working through as a leader, noticing these things, reacting to them and being curious about what the answer is and, and what, why these emotions are coming.

You know, it's, it's so important in today's workplace.

And, and like there are some things that are floating through my brain about, you know, you know, we, we talk a lot about emotional intelligence and you know, and, but I also, the crux of this, you know, is knowing.

Knowing your employees or knowing your team members.

I hate the word employees, but knowing your team members well enough to recognize the good, the bad and the ugly.

Absolutely.

I think it, it starts with, with I teach leaders.

You don't have to like your people every day, but you have to love them.

And it's okay to do that.

Actually, I think it's mandatory in my.

In my book.

That's.

That's kind of what I believe.

But in.

And if you do, then you.

You don't have a problem paying attention to them.

You don't have a problem going, wow, she's upset today.

Wow.

He seems really happy.

I want to find out what that's about so I can make sure that.

That we have something to do with it.

I think the key to that, too, is, is understanding as a leader that you don't just impact that person or that team member or the entire team.

You impact everyone they impact.

And that's a.

That.

That's a little heavy sometimes, but it's also a great responsibility.

Yeah, no, it's so true.

It's like the impact that we can make on somebody is so crucial, but we have to get to know them and know and be able to read.

Read people.

So.

So working.

So do you.

You work with both companies and municipalities?

I do, yep.

So I'm kind of curious here.

So municipalities versus companies.

What.

Where do you see the leadership difference?

I don't.

There isn't a ton, really.

It's just about what you're focused on.

So municipalities are focused on service and not worried about a profit margin.

Businesses are a lot of times focused on service, but they have a profit margin.

The.

I think the difference comes for a leader is in.

In how you manifest division and how you create that is really where the difference is.

It's.

It's actually easier as a leader to create a inspiring vision in a municipality because you're impacting a specific community every time you come.

Every.

Every action you take in this.

In.

In business, it's not always that clear.

So that's a challenge for a business leader that a municipal leader doesn't face the diff.

The other thing is, is that when you have a great employee in the business, you get to take care of them financially and, you know, bonuses and trips and all kinds of things.

And that's not legal in government.

So.

So.

Yeah.

So.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So you have to be innovative in how you.

How you go about doing that.

And it goes back again to understanding who your people are.

Because sometimes, you know, a lot of times you'll hear people say, well, if you.

Your punishment for being a great employee is.

Is.

Is getting more assignments.

Well, some.

Some people like that.

Right.

Some people want more action, some don't.

So it's.

It's understanding who they are.

But I think that's.

Those are really the nuances between the two that I've found most everything else stays fairly consistent.

But it's really key there too like that, that how we, how we recognize and give recognition and reward people is very, very.

It's obviously going to be different between obviously a municipality and a company.

But at the end of the day, what really matters is how, you know, how are you.

Glenn, for example, how, how do you like to be recognized and take recognition?

Right.

So you might like, you know, the Benjamins or you actually might prefer the plaque on the wall.

As long as it's a nice plaque, not one that just, you know, you got a hobby lobby.

And I say that because I'm speaking from experience on something that I was gifted or anyway, so you know, when, so when you're thinking that.

So you mentioned something.

You know, obviously most companies are of service, but you know, municipalities don't necessarily have a true profit.

They're not focused on the profit margin.

They might hopefully be focused on saving ish maybe or what they could do better or stretch the money out.

So you know, other than the fact that obviously one is, you know, it's, it's profit is in there and that they have the ability to buy a gift or buy a trip.

How else do you, you know, is there another difference that you see on, on what profit can do under leadership?

Yeah, I, I think there's a, there's a, a not so good side to that and a re.

And a good side to that.

So let's start with the negative side.

Okay.

A lot of times a company is formed for a purpose to serve you, almost always to serve in some way.

And the, the founder or founders, that's, that's why they want to do it.

And yes, they're going to make money and that's important part of it.

So they can do more.

But as you get bigger and bigger and bigger, you get farther and farther away from that purpose and then money becomes the driver keeping.

And I've learned this in my own business, right, is you, you lose.

You're like, I got to pay the bills, I got to do this, that and the other thing.

And you start focusing on the money and not the purpose that it can be.

Your purpose can be corrupted really fast.

And then it becomes about the money or about the process that we use to serve and we get caught up in the, in that and, and get away from serving the positive.

The positive side is that, and I started to mention it, there is that you can expand your service level and your impact level much greater than a than a municipality can.

Even on the state level, I mean even the federal level, they don't have the daily, you know, at the federal and state level, they don't have the daily impact on, on people.

Despite what the news tells you.

They don't.

The, the, the locals do, right, to some extent.

So if you're, if you go to your city, you know, you're going to go to their park, they're impacting you, you're driving on their streets day to day, you know, all of those things impact you directly, but that's their limits.

And when you get to the, when you get to a business, you can, you know, and you look at all the, a lot of the big super successful businesses, their impact, Amazon's a great example.

They impact everybody's life every day now.

And they got to do that because of, because they created a way to do it and they keep expanding and have a lot of financial resources to continue.

Right.

And it's so, so, okay, so something that I think is really important and listeners, I want you to really take hold of this because I think it's, it's really key, you know, it's, it's, you're knowing your purpose, right.

And trying to stay true to that.

So with that too, because it's so important.

No, we, we do start companies to serve others or there's some reason, you know, we see a problem somewhere and we're like, ooh, I can fix it or I can, my widget's gonna make something better, right?

Solve a problem.

So what's your, what is your, your, you know, game changing way for people to actually stay true to that purpose and not let money become the driver?

Like how do we keep the purpose going?

And, and we know, because we all know, at least in my brain, we all know that the more we focus on the service and that part, the money comes.

It does, it absolutely does.

And, and it, it, you can restrict the flow by focusing on the money rather than the, and I've experienced that personally.

So I think the, the key thing is, is that you're, you have a purpose to be on the planet.

And, and you know, as you move through life, you start to evolve and figure out what it is.

And, and part of that process is writing it down and creating goals around it.

So that's kind of, you know, that's where you start.

In a business you have a business plan.

In a government you have a strategic plan and they're kind of that purpose written down.

But as an individual, you, you have to, and As a leader, you have to instill the purpose of the company or the purpose of the organization in the people.

So I, I talk to leaders about create an inspiring vision and give it away.

And by that I mean you have to stop taking full possession of it.

Let other people own it, create it, morph it in to.

To things and then make it their own.

And when they do, then they, your employees and your, Your team will guide you.

So that's happened to me in the five years I've been in business here twice where I started to focus and worry about money because cash flow and all that other fun stuff you got to deal with and real and my team, because they understand the vision, the vision has become theirs, not just mine, it's ours.

And they corrected me.

Now you have to be willing to listen to them.

And I am, of course.

But that's, that's one, that's one big way.

The other way is to understand the year of all evolving as a human being.

And you're growing and your purpose is going to look different throughout your life and, and so will it for your company or your organization.

So every once in a while, and I think as human beings we generally go through this probably every five to eight years depending it's time for a reset and, and it's not tear everything down and throw it out.

It.

It's just taking some time, some thoughtful time.

And we as leaders today don't, aren't good at that because everything's moving so fast.

But taking some time thinking about what's really important, how things have changed and evolved and where you really want to continue to serve and where you don't.

And that both of those two things can guide you to a new inspired vision.

It can guide you to another product, another service, but it, it gets you away from focusing on, on the money and the nuts and bolts of the, of the company and focusing on, on who you are and why you started it in the first place.

You know, it's so important and you know, there's a couple things that, as you were talking and it's so, it's so true like you know, being, you know, knowing your mission and helping it evolve like, and knowing that, you know, letting people also own it.

And in that key part, again, you know, listeners, you know, this is a key, this is a key thing to really hone in on because you need to be willing to listen you, you know, and you need to be able to listen to the people that are in your fold on know your And I say this A lot.

Employees aren't employees.

They're your team members, they're your partners and they can know your business really well.

So really, you know, we all are evolving.

A mission, mission statement or your vision, it's always evolving.

It's not, and I always say it's not something that you just put up on the wall.

Right.

And read it.

It, it, it's not something it needs to be actually in one of those movable, you know, parts or on a digital board so you can constantly evolve and update it.

Right?

Right.

Absolutely.

You know, I think to the, the, the key to that, to, to what you're talking about is not just listening to hear, but listening to feel in that you're, you're, when you're listening to your team and you're starting to feel what they feel and it's, it's more than empathy and, and, and they will do the same for you.

And to your point, you know, your team can know your business really well in many ways.

They can know better than you or parts of it better than you.

And you as a leader need to be okay with that.

I, I teach a lot of new, young, new and young leaders that as a leader you don't need to know everything, you just need to know who knows it.

That's what leaders do.

And, and that, that's how you build a really world class team is you're doing what you're good at, they're doing what they're good at.

And, and your positions don't, you know, your, your title doesn't matter in the delivery of the service and the delivery of the mission.

Okay, so that's, that's a, it's a really key, astute observation.

Something to really be able to recognize too is that you, we don't need to know everything and leaders.

You know, I always think back to Dale Carnegie.

You know, Dale Carnegie always said hire people that are smarter than you so that you know that you'll help them rise up and they'll help you rise up.

And if you hire people, if you bring people into your fold again, it's where to go to get that information.

So what do you think stops you?

And I have, I know I have an idea in my brain because you know, coaching people.

But what do you think stops people from being able to ask others, like you're having a, you know, being a leader to ask other leaders maybe in their company, like, hey, I don't know this but you know, can you help me?

I think there's two, two major factors.

One is ego.

I need to know it.

And, and, and I do know it and I'm great and, or I should be great.

And then the other one is fear.

What are people going to think if I don't know this or, or you know, am I good enough to, to, to walk this road?

And, and all of that.

And there's both of those things have real, you know, in many companies you don't, especially the unhealthy, toxic ones.

You do not want to show weakness because it'll be a feeding frenzy.

Yeah.

And I think that's, that's where the fear comes from.

And as a leader, you just gotta bite your lip and figure it out.

Even though you might have, you know, a team of 10 people and four of them know, have the answer already and you're, you're hindering that flow.

But that's, that's probably the biggest thing I find going into toxic workplaces is that fear runs rampant and ego is, is part of protecting us from, from fear and from those repercussions.

And so those two work hand in hand to restrict you from, from free flowing as a leader.

So how do you work with a leader?

Let's say who is that person who has that fear and the ego and they don't want to like I need to know it all.

How do you work with that leader to let them understand that they need, that they need to empower their team in order to actually rise up?

You don't need to know it all.

If you empower your team, they're not going to think less of you, they're going to think more of you.

Yeah, absolutely they are.

So, so that's where you start is that as leaders and to me, good to excellent to great leaders all, all have service in mind.

Poor leaders don't.

But, but most of them, you know, most of the people want to be a good leader.

I believe that they may not have been taught all the right skills.

So that's the first thing is to point out what's in it for them.

You know, when you wake up on Sunday night worried about the week, or you can't sleep all Sunday night and you go into the week exhausted already because you're worried about this, that and the other thing that can go away because you have someone there that can do this and it doesn't have to all be on you.

So you start identifying those things which by the way is that that rolls through the organization too, is that you should, as a leader, you should let everybody know what, what's in it for them because they need to know.

And sometimes we think that's not important.

It is one of the keys to.

Motivating people and what's in it for them is very different for each person too.

And that's the other thing.

It's very personal.

It's a very personal thing.

So I think that's part of it.

As I work with the leaders, getting to know them really well about what motivates them, what gets them.

So for me as a leader, as I was evolving as a leader, I like new challenging things and projects and, and I liked high profile.

But more importantly it was just keep, you know, taking on learning new things, especially when I was a young leader.

And so that's what I wanted.

So if, if as a, as my leader the, the ones who got to know me best and, and I thrived under, they got to know.

Oh, I, I got another assignment.

He, he, he works hard to figure out and learn new stuff.

I don't have to teach him everything.

All I have to do is give him another assignment and, and, and I don't have to do it right.

And so that's part of that leadership piece is that you start to learn I don't need to do everything.

And, and it's also really clarifying their role as a leader.

There's a number of things that you're responsible for and I have a long list.

But for this, this I'll talk about two.

One is, is your role is to protect the team.

You can't protect the team if you're doing.

And then the second big role is to be the advocate for the customer with the team and for the team with everyone else.

Those are.

So that's kind of two part, two parts to that one.

So you have those three main roles that you have to have time to do.

They're very time consuming and very, very much, you know, lots of conversations, lots of, of, of interaction.

If you're, if you're doing as a leader and you're leading the entire team and you're doing their work, then you're not serving your, fulfilling your role and the team's going to suffer.

Right?

And so you've really got to, and so when, when you point that out to a leader who hasn't had that, they get it because they want to do that.

That's one of the reasons they became leader.

And so they're okay.

So then we start working on the nuts and bolts of okay, how do you get out, out of this?

And we talk about okay, what's the skill sets of your team, what do you have?

You can fill the gaps as the leader, but what do you have?

And then they, oh, I can hand this to this person and this to this person.

And these two together actually would do great on this.

And then they, and you, you practice by giving away, giving away the, that stuff so you can do what you're.

Doing, you know, And I think that's, you know, I, there's one thing I just, that I think is so important to also recognize.

It is so true.

You don't want to necessarily be in the trenches doing the work because you, because you do need to be the person up here that's kind of being the, you know, you're the, you're the conductor, right?

You're orchestrating and you're, you're, you know, you're getting all the moving parts together, yet at the same time, if there is a deadline or a, whatever you're in there with the team, like, so the, there's that, that slight, like, I'm also right here with you.

Yes, I, I think that's incredibly important as, as I've my career, I came up through the ranks and so I've done most of the job.

So it really helps me get street credibility when I go into a, into a work unit to help them.

And I think that's something that I talk about is don't go in when, when it's all hands on deck to meet that deadline.

Don't go in and do stuff that you're lousy at because you'll mess it up.

Go in with your strengths and fulfill that strength role, short time, and then get out, right.

And let your team ask you for it.

Don't just jump on it and say, I'm going to do this.

Let your team say, you know, we need help to do the deadline.

And then you can say, as the leader, okay, here are the, here are the three things I'm really good at in this.

I think I should do that.

What do you, you know, do you agree they're going to know your skills too?

They're going to go, yes, please go do that.

And then, and then the team succeeds and then you, and then the secret is to pull back out, not stay there, because that's not your role.

You pull right back out when the, when the crisis is over and let everything, let everything evolve and return back to the normal flow.

Right.

And I think the biggest insight that I hear, and I think it's so important, the key thing is communication.

And I talk a lot about what I'm coaching is there's leveraging communication.

And I think that is one of the biggest things what you're sharing.

Again, this is a huge insight, listeners.

It's all about how you as a leader, communicate with your team, whether it's, you know, in the, the day to day and in crazy mode.

And they're different.

And they're different.

Right, they're different.

But it, it's all about communication and not to also like not barking at people, but being somebody who's participating in.

And you're not barking orders, but you're, you're part of the team.

Yeah.

As a leader, you are part of the team.

You just have a different role.

Yeah.

And you, you should, you should speak that as often as you can so that you, you internalize it, but also so your team understands that you'd get it, that you're not above them, you're not below them.

You are all equal.

You just have different roles to play based on your skill sets and, and all of that.

And so I think that's important.

I talk a lot about creating a communication culture.

If you don't create that, it creates itself.

So, so being conscious, being conscious as a leader about what that is.

You know, there's lots of different ways to do it, but I've seen teams who, if you walked into them, you would, and you listened to them communicate and you didn't have all the context.

You would think they're, they're toxic, but they're not.

That's, that's the way they've chosen to create their communication culture.

And they enjoy it.

And they, you know, they, they can be sarcastic and they can pick at each other, but it's not in malice and they do it in a healthy way.

And then you have others where it's very strict, it's very precise.

No, no way is wrong.

It's what's wrong for you or what's right for your team and, and for your organization.

And that's part of that, that vision.

You create a communication culture.

You give it away so that everyone's participating.

And then you, you're much.

Your health, your, your personal health will do better, but also the health of your organization.

The organization.

You know, Glenn, I could talk to you for hours about this.

I think this is like truly, truly fascinating.

And I'm, I'm assuming a lot of this can be found in your book, the Human Centered Team and a lot of it.

Yep.

Yep.

Absolutely.

And is the Human Centered Team available on Amazon?

It's on Amazon.

It has its own website called humancenteredteam.com as well.

And is that a place@humancenteredteam.com is that also a place where people can connect with you as well?

Yes.

And they, and I have a website, akromoff.com that you can take a look at some of the stuff we're doing.

We, we put a lot of stuff out there.

If you can use it, I'm, I'm happy that you're using it.

You don't have to come to me.

But if I can help, that's what we're looking to do.

And the, the, the thing we've been focused on now is, and it might be another book we'll see.

It's called Model Leadership.

You, you.

And really that's what all of my program is based on is that I, I as the leader model what behavior that I expect.

And that includes saying when I make a mistake being, being truly accountable and, and those sort of things.

So that's part of our, that's part of the human centered team, I believe for sure is that as a leader you need to model what you're, what you're looking for.

You know, not do as I say but, but do as I do.

But you can find all of those.

Definitely check out the website and, and love to hear from anybody who reads the book about what they think.

Well, fantastic.

So, okay, so listeners get the book and connect with Glenn.

Because I'm also thinking if you're a parent.

Oh, that's a parenting book too.

Hey, that, that's my son in particular is the one who helped me develop this because he, he was not easy as a, as a, as a child.

Yeah.

So there you go.

So, and that's, and that's the key thing too is, is how we show.

Up.

As in our day to day, whether we're at home or at a company.

You know, we should be operating from a place of our true values.

And so they, they do need to mesh.

Obviously the places are different, but the skill set is the same.

Absolutely.

So thank you so much Glenn for being an amazing guest listeners, please again connect with Glenn.

I will share the websites that he has and a link to the book in the show notes.

But if you've gotten some great insight from this podcast, which I'm sure you have, please do me the favor of clicking the subscribe button and then also doing me even one better which is sharing it with your friends and business colleagues because again, if we have can make better leaders, we can make a better world.

I'm Jacqueline Stranger, the host of the Unstoppable Leadership Spotlight podcast.

And again, thank you, Glenn, for being an amazing guest.

And thank you, listeners, for listening in.