1 00:00:13,809 --> 00:00:17,560 Matt Edmundson: Well, hello and welcome to the eCommerce Podcast 2 00:00:17,590 --> 00:00:19,460 with me, your host, Matt Edmundson. 3 00:00:19,790 --> 00:00:24,650 Now this is a show all about helping you deliver eCommerce wow. 4 00:00:24,930 --> 00:00:29,839 And to help us do just that today, I am chatting with Nirav Sheth from 5 00:00:29,899 --> 00:00:36,059 Anatta about what do multi million dollar brands have in common? 6 00:00:36,319 --> 00:00:38,190 Oh yes, that's what we're getting into. 7 00:00:38,539 --> 00:00:40,750 But before we jump into the conversation. 8 00:00:41,765 --> 00:00:44,175 Why not head over to the website, eCommercePodcast. 9 00:00:44,175 --> 00:00:47,845 net, sign up to the newsletter, and every week we will send you the 10 00:00:47,845 --> 00:00:51,854 notes and the links from the show straight to your inbox to do anything. 11 00:00:52,244 --> 00:00:53,914 They just come to you. 12 00:00:54,315 --> 00:00:59,744 And whilst you're there, check out eCommerce Cohort, bring this show to us. 13 00:00:59,744 --> 00:01:03,504 Oh, yes, the eCommerce Cohort, which is our monthly membership group that 14 00:01:03,515 --> 00:01:07,255 you can join if you're an eCommerce, if you're an eCommercer, as I like 15 00:01:07,255 --> 00:01:09,734 to call people, then do check it out. 16 00:01:09,964 --> 00:01:12,124 It's all designed to help you do eCommerce better. 17 00:01:12,325 --> 00:01:13,675 It's not expensive to join. 18 00:01:13,945 --> 00:01:15,745 You should learn a shed load of stuff. 19 00:01:15,965 --> 00:01:19,535 And also you get to watch the podcast live as well as we record them. 20 00:01:19,745 --> 00:01:23,555 You can come and ask your ge our guests, your guests, our well, our guests, all 21 00:01:23,555 --> 00:01:27,375 everyone's guests, you can ask some questions and comments and you can tell 22 00:01:27,375 --> 00:01:29,115 this is all very professionally produced. 23 00:01:29,815 --> 00:01:31,315 Welcome to the show. 24 00:01:31,615 --> 00:01:36,835 So without further ado, let's talk about nab, the CEO of Mastermind 25 00:01:37,255 --> 00:01:40,015 behind Anatta, the go-to partner. 26 00:01:40,060 --> 00:01:43,580 for skyrocketing eCommerce brands. 27 00:01:43,590 --> 00:01:49,199 He's the secret weapon for the big names in D2C, like Rothy's, 28 00:01:49,529 --> 00:01:55,190 Dollar Shave Club, Athletic Greens, and the list goes on and on. 29 00:01:55,199 --> 00:01:58,089 Nirav has taken Anatta on a thrilling journey. 30 00:01:58,460 --> 00:02:03,480 Propelling over 100 D2C brands to the stratosphere of revenue 31 00:02:03,480 --> 00:02:05,830 growth and conversion success. 32 00:02:05,850 --> 00:02:10,770 And when it comes to turning promising brands into industry leaders, he's 33 00:02:10,770 --> 00:02:12,859 definitely got the Midas touch. 34 00:02:13,089 --> 00:02:16,060 Unlike me, because the music finished like just a few seconds 35 00:02:16,060 --> 00:02:17,399 before I got to the end of your bio. 36 00:02:17,760 --> 00:02:19,340 I was thinking, am I gonna make it? 37 00:02:19,380 --> 00:02:21,760 I didn't make it, but no, great to have you on the show, man. 38 00:02:21,760 --> 00:02:22,260 How you doing? 39 00:02:23,370 --> 00:02:23,560 I'm 40 00:02:23,560 --> 00:02:24,260 Nirav Sheth: doing amazing. 41 00:02:24,260 --> 00:02:24,829 Matt Edmundson: How are you? 42 00:02:25,260 --> 00:02:26,010 Yeah, good. 43 00:02:26,380 --> 00:02:30,619 It's the end of my day here but for you, I imagine you're just starting out just 44 00:02:30,619 --> 00:02:33,469 looking at the brightness difference more than anything on the camera. 45 00:02:35,119 --> 00:02:37,169 Nirav Sheth: I think I just have really good lighting put into this room. 46 00:02:38,209 --> 00:02:39,850 It's actually a pretty gloomy day here in Austin. 47 00:02:39,859 --> 00:02:40,499 It's around 2 p. 48 00:02:40,500 --> 00:02:40,630 m. 49 00:02:40,690 --> 00:02:41,744 But it's pretty good today. 50 00:02:42,465 --> 00:02:43,995 Matt Edmundson: Sorry to hear that, sorry to hear that. 51 00:02:44,305 --> 00:02:48,525 Speaking of Austin last time I was in Austin, I was there visiting an 52 00:02:48,525 --> 00:02:51,065 amazing chap called Brett Curry, who doesn't live in Austin, but 53 00:02:51,065 --> 00:02:52,015 he just happened to be there. 54 00:02:52,435 --> 00:02:55,734 I don't know if Brett Curry from OMG Commerce he's an absolute legend, 55 00:02:55,734 --> 00:02:58,928 he's got his own podcast, really cool bloke, and we hooked up and 56 00:02:58,928 --> 00:03:00,615 we had a great time, had some food. 57 00:03:01,060 --> 00:03:03,690 Had a beer and just chatted for hours and hours and it was lovely to see him. 58 00:03:03,690 --> 00:03:04,556 But, 59 00:03:04,586 --> 00:03:07,026 Nirav Sheth: Yeah, I had a chance to be on his podcast as well and 60 00:03:07,386 --> 00:03:09,456 he actually introduced me to this really great mastermind group. 61 00:03:09,456 --> 00:03:10,956 I'll get to see him in a couple weeks. 62 00:03:11,296 --> 00:03:12,466 Matt Edmundson: Fantaboy, tell him I said hello. 63 00:03:13,066 --> 00:03:14,226 He's an absolute legend. 64 00:03:14,426 --> 00:03:15,486 You know he's got eight kids? 65 00:03:16,821 --> 00:03:18,101 Nirav Sheth: No, does he really? 66 00:03:18,331 --> 00:03:18,621 Yep. 67 00:03:18,681 --> 00:03:19,281 Eight kids. 68 00:03:20,201 --> 00:03:20,511 Matt Edmundson: Yep. 69 00:03:22,621 --> 00:03:23,031 Eight kids. 70 00:03:23,541 --> 00:03:26,701 And the guy that introduced me and me, and if you've not listened, if 71 00:03:26,701 --> 00:03:28,911 you're listening to the show, check out the episode with Brett Curry. 72 00:03:28,911 --> 00:03:32,111 He gets into everything to do with YouTube ads, which is his 73 00:03:32,111 --> 00:03:35,671 specialty, which was just brilliant, actually a really brilliant episode. 74 00:03:36,071 --> 00:03:38,301 But yeah, the chap that introduced us was Jared Mitchell. 75 00:03:38,521 --> 00:03:43,921 And Jared from Beefy Sites, he lives on the West Coast and he's it's just really 76 00:03:43,921 --> 00:03:47,731 funny when you have Jared and his wife Brett and his wife and the eight kids. 77 00:03:47,741 --> 00:03:51,681 It's 10 people descend on your house and it's just utter chaos, 78 00:03:51,681 --> 00:03:53,961 but it's brilliant and fun and they love it and they enjoy it. 79 00:03:54,021 --> 00:03:57,311 But the reason I was in Texas was because of SubSummit 2023. 80 00:03:58,311 --> 00:04:02,346 SubSummit 2024, there's a very strong chance I'll be back, by the way, 81 00:04:02,346 --> 00:04:03,996 just a quick shameless plug here. 82 00:04:04,396 --> 00:04:08,906 And I've just got an email through from Lauren who heads up SubSummit and it said, 83 00:04:09,296 --> 00:04:11,706 Listen Matt, I hope you're doing well. 84 00:04:12,046 --> 00:04:16,466 I wanted to send along a link that you can share with the podcast to snag free 85 00:04:16,466 --> 00:04:22,066 tickets and travel for SubSummit 2024 via their hosted Merchants Program. 86 00:04:22,456 --> 00:04:28,206 So if you are a D2C subscription company looking to go to Subsummit 87 00:04:28,206 --> 00:04:34,326 in Dallas, you may qualify to attend Subsummit at little or no cost. 88 00:04:34,706 --> 00:04:38,376 Via this program, qualified merchants will receive a complimentary ticket 89 00:04:38,386 --> 00:04:43,706 to Subsummit, plus travel and hotel reimbursements up to 750. 90 00:04:45,886 --> 00:04:50,506 All you have to do is meet with solution providers in no commitment, 91 00:04:50,516 --> 00:04:53,256 15 minute meetings, speed dating style. 92 00:04:53,606 --> 00:04:56,416 All meetings are double opt in, both people have to agree to meet 93 00:04:56,416 --> 00:05:01,136 each other, and they're valuable to everyone, and the meetings last only 94 00:05:01,156 --> 00:05:03,216 2 or 3 hours on day 2 of the event. 95 00:05:03,651 --> 00:05:05,761 And you should see, I don't know if you've been to SubSummit, but you 96 00:05:05,781 --> 00:05:09,706 should see the room where they do these sort of speed dating meetings. 97 00:05:09,706 --> 00:05:11,347 It's like it goes on forever. 98 00:05:11,347 --> 00:05:14,111 But if that's of any interest to anyone listening to the show 99 00:05:14,401 --> 00:05:14,811 Nirav Sheth: Sorry? 100 00:05:15,881 --> 00:05:18,421 I was going to say, I'm actually going to be speaking at SubSummit next year, so 101 00:05:18,421 --> 00:05:19,001 Matt Edmundson: No way! 102 00:05:19,001 --> 00:05:20,171 We should get together, man. 103 00:05:20,491 --> 00:05:21,671 Yes, definitely. 104 00:05:21,691 --> 00:05:22,421 Yeah, absolutely. 105 00:05:22,421 --> 00:05:22,821 What are you going to be 106 00:05:22,821 --> 00:05:23,431 Nirav Sheth: speaking on? 107 00:05:24,611 --> 00:05:27,791 Specifically subscription revenue and how to improve it, especially working 108 00:05:27,791 --> 00:05:31,201 with the brands like Athletic Greens and so many really large scale subscription 109 00:05:31,201 --> 00:05:35,141 brands we'll be speaking about tips and ways to really increase revenue and drive 110 00:05:35,181 --> 00:05:35,651 Matt Edmundson: retention. 111 00:05:36,051 --> 00:05:36,761 Fantastic. 112 00:05:36,801 --> 00:05:37,051 Wow. 113 00:05:37,051 --> 00:05:37,381 Yeah. 114 00:05:38,241 --> 00:05:40,601 Looks like we'll be both in the speakers lounge Nirav. 115 00:05:40,661 --> 00:05:42,031 We'll definitely have to hook up, man. 116 00:05:42,031 --> 00:05:43,121 That sounds fantastic. 117 00:05:43,121 --> 00:05:43,701 I didn't know that. 118 00:05:43,701 --> 00:05:44,231 That's awesome. 119 00:05:44,661 --> 00:05:45,241 That's awesome. 120 00:05:45,581 --> 00:05:49,001 If you're listening and you want to meet myself or have come join us and if you are 121 00:05:49,001 --> 00:05:54,541 a DTC brand Check out the hosted merchants program, but do be warned dear listener. 122 00:05:54,571 --> 00:05:59,421 The seats go quick because of obvious reasons but do come check it out. 123 00:05:59,781 --> 00:06:01,591 So is this going to be your first time to SubSummit? 124 00:06:02,691 --> 00:06:03,181 Nirav Sheth: It will be. 125 00:06:03,181 --> 00:06:03,481 Yeah. 126 00:06:03,541 --> 00:06:03,951 Matt Edmundson: First time. 127 00:06:04,641 --> 00:06:05,251 That's exciting. 128 00:06:05,801 --> 00:06:06,361 Exciting. 129 00:06:06,711 --> 00:06:09,121 And not far to travel from Austin for yourself. 130 00:06:09,131 --> 00:06:09,391 No. 131 00:06:10,531 --> 00:06:11,321 Nirav Sheth: Just a couple hours drive 132 00:06:11,321 --> 00:06:11,791 Matt Edmundson: to Dallas. 133 00:06:12,031 --> 00:06:12,291 Yeah. 134 00:06:12,291 --> 00:06:14,021 I took, have you heard of the Von Lane? 135 00:06:15,851 --> 00:06:20,701 Now, so I took the Von Lane from Dallas to Austin and this was referred, this 136 00:06:20,701 --> 00:06:23,791 was recommended to me by the friends I was staying with in Dallas because I 137 00:06:23,791 --> 00:06:26,921 said I've got to go to Austin, what's the best way to do that and they said 138 00:06:26,931 --> 00:06:28,561 it's honestly just take the Vonlane. 139 00:06:29,321 --> 00:06:32,691 So check it, it's like this, I don't know how to describe it other than it's 140 00:06:32,691 --> 00:06:38,641 like this really super comfy executive style bus and you get on in this big old 141 00:06:38,641 --> 00:06:43,411 leather seat, you work Because they've got amazing Wi Fi, they bring you cokes 142 00:06:43,411 --> 00:06:46,071 whenever you want it, and then you get off at the other end tightly refreshed, 143 00:06:46,071 --> 00:06:47,861 it's amazing, check it out, Vonlane. 144 00:06:48,551 --> 00:06:50,751 Anyway, I think that's enough plugs for everything. 145 00:06:50,751 --> 00:06:52,551 Let's talk about what you're doing. 146 00:06:54,251 --> 00:06:57,731 So you're, you've been working with brands like Athletic Greens, you mentioned 147 00:06:57,731 --> 00:06:59,191 that, we mentioned that in the bio. 148 00:07:00,431 --> 00:07:06,541 So you've obviously worked with some pretty impressive large brands, 149 00:07:06,591 --> 00:07:10,906 hence the title of the podcast, about what the multi million Brands, multi 150 00:07:10,906 --> 00:07:12,446 million dollar brands have in common. 151 00:07:12,836 --> 00:07:14,566 So let's start there, right? 152 00:07:14,586 --> 00:07:17,836 What are some of the things that they have in common that we should really 153 00:07:17,876 --> 00:07:20,396 pay attention to as eCommerce brands? 154 00:07:21,876 --> 00:07:24,096 Nirav Sheth: Yeah, Matt, like having worked with so many of these multi 155 00:07:24,096 --> 00:07:27,276 million dollar brands, specifically brands that we started at the very 156 00:07:27,276 --> 00:07:31,156 beginning, early days, startup side, emerging all the way into like their 157 00:07:31,166 --> 00:07:32,936 growth and into their enterprise state. 158 00:07:33,566 --> 00:07:36,836 There's a couple of things we've seen in common working with these brands. 159 00:07:36,956 --> 00:07:39,346 Number one is the founders themselves. 160 00:07:39,896 --> 00:07:44,096 When what we found from the founders that what got them into the startup 161 00:07:44,196 --> 00:07:48,036 rarely works once they go into mid market and the founders that 162 00:07:48,086 --> 00:07:52,906 understand that and that they truly get it are the ones that succeed. 163 00:07:53,056 --> 00:07:55,876 And what I mean by that is a couple of things, like one of the things 164 00:07:55,876 --> 00:08:00,136 is that in the early stages, pure hustle gets you so many stages. 165 00:08:00,476 --> 00:08:01,316 Hustle's great. 166 00:08:01,376 --> 00:08:03,666 Everybody talks about it, don't let it fool you. 167 00:08:03,666 --> 00:08:04,076 Like it's. 168 00:08:04,531 --> 00:08:08,391 It is important in the early stages, you push through, break through walls, 169 00:08:08,441 --> 00:08:11,281 like kick butt and keep moving forward. 170 00:08:11,281 --> 00:08:15,671 But when you, when you go to like mid market and you're trying to 171 00:08:15,671 --> 00:08:19,721 go past the ceiling of like 10 million, 15 million, 20 million. 172 00:08:20,306 --> 00:08:23,336 The smartest founders that I found and the ones that really get them 173 00:08:23,356 --> 00:08:28,596 to the next stage realized that what got them there to that stage of 10, 174 00:08:28,596 --> 00:08:31,346 15, 20 million is not what's going to get them to the 100 million stage. 175 00:08:31,346 --> 00:08:33,846 It's not what's going to get them to the 1 billion stage. 176 00:08:34,166 --> 00:08:37,006 Because pure hustle is just not going to carry you forward. 177 00:08:37,726 --> 00:08:42,416 You, every brand that has moved from one stage to another has seen that 178 00:08:42,416 --> 00:08:44,306 the strategies are pretty different. 179 00:08:44,606 --> 00:08:48,346 And the strategies that they employ in the early days is not going to be the 180 00:08:48,346 --> 00:08:50,336 same strategies you use moving forward. 181 00:08:50,736 --> 00:08:54,946 And the ones that are, as they're getting it, they leverage different sets of 182 00:08:54,946 --> 00:08:59,806 teams and different sets of groups of people, both internally and externally, 183 00:09:00,016 --> 00:09:01,466 to be able to make that happen. 184 00:09:01,786 --> 00:09:04,906 And what I mean by that is that Like the same, maybe you've worked 185 00:09:04,906 --> 00:09:09,166 with 5, 6, maybe up to 15 people on your team and internal and external. 186 00:09:09,426 --> 00:09:12,096 And those people might understand all the things that you need to 187 00:09:12,096 --> 00:09:15,376 do in a startup to pivot to make changes, to do quick reacting stuff. 188 00:09:15,686 --> 00:09:19,926 But then the long term plays of brand and the long term plays of thinking about 189 00:09:19,926 --> 00:09:24,426 multiple channels and how to go about that from a strategy perspective Aren’t gonna 190 00:09:24,426 --> 00:09:29,296 , might not be the same people and so the ones that really get it and do it well, 191 00:09:29,296 --> 00:09:33,116 especially to give you an example, I feel like the brand, Terayuma, who I worked 192 00:09:33,116 --> 00:09:34,696 with really closely, did it really well. 193 00:09:34,956 --> 00:09:38,856 Their two founders, David and Fernando, they both created a 194 00:09:38,916 --> 00:09:40,476 footwear company put of Brazil 195 00:09:40,996 --> 00:09:44,596 And came into like the skateboarding surfing kind of community going 196 00:09:44,596 --> 00:09:48,296 up against vans and the, the, all the players in that space. 197 00:09:48,626 --> 00:09:50,206 And they, they learned that early. 198 00:09:50,216 --> 00:09:51,946 They made their first million, 2 million. 199 00:09:51,946 --> 00:09:54,766 And they were like, you know what, we don't know what we don't know. 200 00:09:54,806 --> 00:09:56,446 And we need to be smart about. 201 00:09:56,741 --> 00:10:00,891 Put in the right investments into the team and so they leverage a company like us 202 00:10:00,891 --> 00:10:04,411 to really take over their digital product side where they were doing it internally. 203 00:10:04,411 --> 00:10:07,641 They were doing it with a freelancer and kind of making that happen both on design 204 00:10:07,641 --> 00:10:11,421 and development side, but knowing that you can be able to make that change and 205 00:10:11,421 --> 00:10:14,411 to be able to trust the group of people that you're doing it because they've seen 206 00:10:14,501 --> 00:10:18,241 other brands do it from time to time, that's what they, that's what they use. 207 00:10:18,241 --> 00:10:21,831 I think number one is like the founders is very unique when it comes 208 00:10:21,831 --> 00:10:23,931 to the multimillion dollar brands. 209 00:10:25,111 --> 00:10:25,441 That's really interesting. 210 00:10:25,441 --> 00:10:25,551 And that's 211 00:10:25,551 --> 00:10:26,201 Matt Edmundson: the other part. 212 00:10:26,381 --> 00:10:26,751 Oh, go ahead. 213 00:10:27,121 --> 00:10:28,421 No, I was going to say that's really interesting. 214 00:10:28,751 --> 00:10:32,991 It's interesting you've jumped straight into this word hustle, which became, 215 00:10:33,811 --> 00:10:37,881 I think, popular with the advent of Gary Vaynerchuk's rise on social media. 216 00:10:37,881 --> 00:10:38,981 It was his thing, wasn't it? 217 00:10:39,001 --> 00:10:43,321 This word hustle and I and I'm intrigued how you've gone for that and said that's 218 00:10:43,321 --> 00:10:47,791 a good, the way I'd probably phrase it now is to say Hustle's a good starter, 219 00:10:47,791 --> 00:10:51,401 but it's not necessarily a great sort of finish or a great, for the next stage. 220 00:10:51,401 --> 00:10:53,611 It doesn't take you through that ceiling, does it really? 221 00:10:54,361 --> 00:10:56,031 But it does get you off the launch pad. 222 00:10:56,491 --> 00:10:59,601 So what are some of the things that we need to think about then 223 00:10:59,601 --> 00:11:01,101 once we get off the launch pad? 224 00:11:01,111 --> 00:11:04,191 We, which is, it's going to be hard if you're hustling to try and find the 225 00:11:04,201 --> 00:11:06,731 time to think about it, what are some of the things that we should think about? 226 00:11:08,051 --> 00:11:10,801 Nirav Sheth: I think the most important thing to start out thinking about 227 00:11:10,801 --> 00:11:14,381 is like the team that you surround yourself with because the team is 228 00:11:14,381 --> 00:11:16,651 absolutely critical towards your success. 229 00:11:16,651 --> 00:11:19,241 So whether it's like the brands like I talked about, Cariuma, or 230 00:11:19,241 --> 00:11:20,571 it's teams like Athletic Greens. 231 00:11:20,901 --> 00:11:24,231 They, when they started working with us and their CEO at that time was 232 00:11:24,571 --> 00:11:26,551 someone who I think of as a dear friend. 233 00:11:26,551 --> 00:11:29,361 His name is Adam Trouncer and he was their CEO. 234 00:11:29,381 --> 00:11:32,461 He really built this phenomenal team around him working with 235 00:11:32,481 --> 00:11:35,326 Chris, the founder, and they put together like this team. 236 00:11:35,506 --> 00:11:36,976 Amazing team to go forward with. 237 00:11:36,976 --> 00:11:40,516 Yeah, and I really think that a lot of the success behind ag isn't just 238 00:11:40,516 --> 00:11:43,546 because they launched really good ad campaigns, it's because they brought in 239 00:11:43,546 --> 00:11:47,176 the right team and the right strategies to be able to scale going forward. 240 00:11:47,181 --> 00:11:49,696 So I think team is like absolutely critical. 241 00:11:49,696 --> 00:11:52,186 But then two along with team is strategy. 242 00:11:52,216 --> 00:11:53,626 What is the strategy? 243 00:11:53,986 --> 00:11:57,876 We can see that works either in this industry or in a parallel 244 00:11:57,876 --> 00:12:01,536 industry and that if we use that or mirror off of that, we could 245 00:12:01,536 --> 00:12:03,596 actually see our our success grow. 246 00:12:03,866 --> 00:12:07,196 And this is not a, hey, do what your competitors are doing. 247 00:12:07,386 --> 00:12:11,716 This is more of a, let's try out like proven strategies. 248 00:12:12,726 --> 00:12:15,936 Embedded in research, embedded in actual data. 249 00:12:16,176 --> 00:12:16,236 Yeah. 250 00:12:16,236 --> 00:12:17,166 That can make things work. 251 00:12:17,196 --> 00:12:19,416 This isn't just about looking at your next competitor and saying if 252 00:12:19,416 --> 00:12:20,646 he's doing it, we should be doing it. 253 00:12:20,706 --> 00:12:22,306 That is not the way to do things. 254 00:12:24,526 --> 00:12:25,366 Matt Edmundson: embedded in data. 255 00:12:25,366 --> 00:12:25,816 I like that. 256 00:12:26,056 --> 00:12:28,856 We had Neil Hoynes on the podcast a couple weeks ago. 257 00:12:29,336 --> 00:12:33,986 Who's the chief's, google's chief strategist and he wrote the book Converted 258 00:12:33,986 --> 00:12:37,386 which is all about using data to win over your customers hearts and minds 259 00:12:37,386 --> 00:12:38,656 I think there's something like that. 260 00:12:39,116 --> 00:12:40,706 He also spoke at SubSummit last year. 261 00:12:40,716 --> 00:12:41,366 That's where we met. 262 00:12:42,246 --> 00:12:45,086 Really interesting guys saying the same thing again, what's the, what, think 263 00:12:45,096 --> 00:12:48,786 about the data, what's the data telling you, but what sort of strategies do 264 00:12:48,786 --> 00:12:52,636 you see working at the moment that, maybe we need to look at in a little 265 00:12:52,636 --> 00:12:54,436 bit more detail and find the data for. 266 00:12:56,116 --> 00:12:56,396 Yeah. 267 00:12:56,396 --> 00:12:56,986 Nirav Sheth: I think I. 268 00:12:57,241 --> 00:13:00,231 Well, one of the things I'm learning and this goes back to the earlier part 269 00:13:00,231 --> 00:13:04,241 of what we help build million dollar brands is like brands that are leveraging 270 00:13:04,261 --> 00:13:09,031 a strategy of leaning in on a specific channel makes a really big importance. 271 00:13:09,401 --> 00:13:13,321 And so what we've seen every single time is that the fastest growing brands 272 00:13:13,681 --> 00:13:18,381 actually don't diversify their channels until they can get one to two channels. 273 00:13:18,571 --> 00:13:23,221 moving really really smoothly and I know this is going to be counter to alot of 274 00:13:23,221 --> 00:13:26,531 people's conversations like, hey you need to be on TikTok, hey you need to 275 00:13:26,531 --> 00:13:30,381 be on YouTube hey you need to get your emails you need to do your text messages. 276 00:13:30,501 --> 00:13:32,741 You're gonna get alot of that as a merchant, right. 277 00:13:32,741 --> 00:13:36,881 and as growing, growing a brand you get pushed into so many different scenarios 278 00:13:37,151 --> 00:13:42,031 but rarely do they tell you that the brand that succeeded the like the fastest and 279 00:13:42,061 --> 00:13:46,743 the furthest actually haven't done it off of seven different channels all at once. 280 00:13:47,003 --> 00:13:49,383 They'd actually started off in one or two channels. 281 00:13:49,613 --> 00:13:51,993 And then to give you an example, when we work with Rothies on 282 00:13:51,993 --> 00:13:56,093 the early days, their primary channels was paid social and email. 283 00:13:56,438 --> 00:13:57,868 And they could bank on that. 284 00:13:57,928 --> 00:14:00,938 And when I say they could bank on it, I'm talking about if they double, 285 00:14:00,938 --> 00:14:06,058 tripled, or even 10X their spend on it, they knew very closely, very clearly 286 00:14:06,058 --> 00:14:07,848 what the expected output would be. 287 00:14:08,128 --> 00:14:11,098 Now on paid social, they knew there was a certain point that like they wouldn't 288 00:14:11,108 --> 00:14:14,328 be able to make as much, but like they knew every time they sent out an email. 289 00:14:14,563 --> 00:14:18,183 That they could count on X amount of revenue coming in every single time. 290 00:14:18,483 --> 00:14:22,463 And so I would really highly suggest like thinking about one to two channels 291 00:14:22,463 --> 00:14:25,393 that are actually scalable and when I say actually scalable You have to 292 00:14:25,393 --> 00:14:28,913 think about the mathematical terms of that if I invest ten dollars and 293 00:14:28,913 --> 00:14:30,263 I can get a hundred dollars out. 294 00:14:30,858 --> 00:14:35,958 Does that mean the same thing if I invest 10, 000, can I get 100, 000 out, right? 295 00:14:36,148 --> 00:14:39,758 Do the math on it and see, like, when I say scale, you have to be 296 00:14:39,758 --> 00:14:43,188 able to push dollars into it to actually end up coming back to you. 297 00:14:44,958 --> 00:14:45,698 Matt Edmundson: Very wise. 298 00:14:45,758 --> 00:14:50,808 I, this thing about different channels is, it always comes up, there's always 299 00:14:50,808 --> 00:14:55,733 this pressure because people are told, you've gotta jump on TikTok, right? 300 00:14:55,763 --> 00:14:56,663 You've just gotta do it. 301 00:14:56,693 --> 00:14:59,438 Especially if you wanna reach Gen Z, you've gotta be on TikTok, tiktok is 302 00:14:59,453 --> 00:15:00,953 cheap, it's cheaper than Facebook. 303 00:15:01,503 --> 00:15:03,303 It's cheaper than meta and so on and so forth. 304 00:15:03,303 --> 00:15:06,193 And it is, and there are opportunities there, but I think there's 305 00:15:06,193 --> 00:15:07,663 always been this danger that you. 306 00:15:08,228 --> 00:15:11,108 You do that sort of bed hopping thing where you're just 307 00:15:11,108 --> 00:15:12,488 going from one to the next. 308 00:15:12,528 --> 00:15:13,068 Do you know what I mean? 309 00:15:13,228 --> 00:15:17,468 Just not really doing it well, but just going to the next thing hoping 310 00:15:17,468 --> 00:15:21,168 that's going to land something for you because whatever you did before 311 00:15:21,168 --> 00:15:24,438 didn't give you the ROI as quickly as you wanted it, quite a thing. 312 00:15:25,468 --> 00:15:28,638 And so it's good I'm, as you were talking, I was thinking back to when we 313 00:15:28,638 --> 00:15:30,168 started Jersey, which was one of our. 314 00:15:30,418 --> 00:15:32,356 www. 315 00:15:32,356 --> 00:15:34,294 crowd. 316 00:15:34,294 --> 00:15:36,232 church. 317 00:15:36,232 --> 00:15:38,170 org. 318 00:15:38,170 --> 00:15:45,198 au We just did paid, we just did Google, Google ads and email. 319 00:15:45,318 --> 00:15:48,308 That was our whole strategy, and we even, we, we didn't really do 320 00:15:48,348 --> 00:15:50,728 Facebook that well, to be honest with you for the longest time. 321 00:15:51,228 --> 00:15:54,528 But we just focused on those two channels and we did those channels really well. 322 00:15:54,568 --> 00:15:56,608 And then we started to grow into the other channels. 323 00:15:57,058 --> 00:15:59,198 And so I'm sitting here thinking on one hand. 324 00:15:59,758 --> 00:16:06,098 I've done what you've said, so I feel slightly proud of myself, but on the 325 00:16:06,098 --> 00:16:09,748 other hand, I don't know if I still do that, because it is tempting, isn't 326 00:16:09,748 --> 00:16:13,828 it, to get sucked in and drawn into, I've got to do Instagram, I've got to 327 00:16:13,828 --> 00:16:17,078 do YouTube, I've got to do the podcast, I've got to do the blog, I've got to 328 00:16:17,078 --> 00:16:19,888 do email, I've got to do this, I've got to do that, and so on and so forth. 329 00:16:20,773 --> 00:16:24,873 How do you figure out, what channels people focus on or should focus on? 330 00:16:26,413 --> 00:16:26,513 I 331 00:16:26,513 --> 00:16:28,753 Nirav Sheth: mean, it depends on a few different things, right? 332 00:16:28,783 --> 00:16:30,653 So first, where is your audience? 333 00:16:30,713 --> 00:16:35,688 And if your audience, if you're selling skin careto 60 year olds, maybe 334 00:16:35,688 --> 00:16:37,398 TikTok isn't the audience for you. 335 00:16:37,418 --> 00:16:39,208 Maybe Facebook is the audience for you. 336 00:16:39,458 --> 00:16:42,278 So one, you got to know where your audience is and where they're using 337 00:16:42,278 --> 00:16:43,798 it and feel good about that audience. 338 00:16:43,848 --> 00:16:46,368 If you're still in the early stages where you're still trying to find 339 00:16:46,368 --> 00:16:50,348 product market fit, maybe you don't know where your audience yet is, but as 340 00:16:50,348 --> 00:16:53,618 you start developing that and get more sophisticated, you'll start understanding 341 00:16:53,668 --> 00:16:56,428 who your core customer base is and who really loves your product the 342 00:16:56,428 --> 00:16:58,418 most to find the best traction for it. 343 00:16:58,958 --> 00:17:02,678 Two, I also think a little bit comes down to what you're willing to do. 344 00:17:02,718 --> 00:17:07,448 Like, where are you going to play by like when you produce content or your marketing 345 00:17:07,448 --> 00:17:12,158 team produces content, where did they love posting and engaging in the community? 346 00:17:12,378 --> 00:17:15,918 If it feels so much like a one way street of just being able to post 347 00:17:15,938 --> 00:17:17,798 content and then you're just don't care. 348 00:17:17,798 --> 00:17:20,658 So you're like, Hey, I'm just going to take this content and push it out to seven 349 00:17:20,658 --> 00:17:22,228 different social platforms and that's it. 350 00:17:22,428 --> 00:17:23,908 And I'm not going to interact or engage. 351 00:17:24,213 --> 00:17:27,903 One of the things you said, Matt, on this was like, are you doing it well, 352 00:17:28,193 --> 00:17:30,933 because a lot of people are just doing it, but that doesn't mean that they're 353 00:17:30,933 --> 00:17:34,763 doing it well, and that means that you're super inefficient with your 354 00:17:34,763 --> 00:17:38,973 spend, whether it's an actual paid spend that you're doing on advertisements, 355 00:17:39,053 --> 00:17:42,393 or it's a spend on actually having your marketing team produce that content. 356 00:17:42,453 --> 00:17:43,573 It's they're spend either way. 357 00:17:43,583 --> 00:17:46,093 You're going to be producing content, whether you're doing it yourself 358 00:17:46,093 --> 00:17:49,523 with your own time, or you're paying others to do it for you, and so 359 00:17:49,523 --> 00:17:52,528 if you take all that together, are you even being efficient with it? 360 00:17:52,528 --> 00:17:55,098 And the only way to be efficient with it is to be doing it based 361 00:17:55,098 --> 00:17:58,828 on your own passions, your own interests, and your own curiosity. 362 00:17:59,058 --> 00:18:02,298 A lot of times when you're engaging on this especially on content marketing, 363 00:18:02,298 --> 00:18:05,538 but also email marketing and things like that, have to enjoy what you're doing. 364 00:18:05,538 --> 00:18:08,758 If you're not enjoying it and you're not participating in that way, you're going 365 00:18:08,758 --> 00:18:12,048 to find yourself that you're not going to be efficient with it because you're not 366 00:18:12,048 --> 00:18:16,248 actually taking those times to actually be curious, to engage, to build a community. 367 00:18:16,508 --> 00:18:17,758 And what we all know is that the. 368 00:18:17,978 --> 00:18:20,868 The brands that have done this really well have built really 369 00:18:20,868 --> 00:18:22,658 strong communities out of it. 370 00:18:22,658 --> 00:18:23,458 That's true. 371 00:18:23,458 --> 00:18:27,758 One of the examples I have with Rothy's is that Rothy's had this Facebook 372 00:18:27,778 --> 00:18:29,548 group called the Rothy's Addicts. 373 00:18:29,868 --> 00:18:33,968 They were a legitimate 50 or 100, 000 person group of people 374 00:18:33,968 --> 00:18:35,578 who just loved every shoe. 375 00:18:35,718 --> 00:18:38,068 They talked, they had these rainbows that they created from all the 376 00:18:38,068 --> 00:18:39,098 different colors of the shoes. 377 00:18:39,148 --> 00:18:41,938 They created such a fan base, and it was created by Rothy's. 378 00:18:41,988 --> 00:18:44,468 They created the initial base, and then they put somebody else 379 00:18:44,468 --> 00:18:45,888 in charge, and they led them. 380 00:18:46,108 --> 00:18:49,868 But it was just such a cool community that like they got to a place where 381 00:18:49,918 --> 00:18:53,148 before they even launch a product, sometimes they had hackers in that 382 00:18:53,148 --> 00:18:56,148 group that figured out what product was launching and it was okay. 383 00:18:56,148 --> 00:18:58,238 Cause I was just like, cool, you figured it out. 384 00:18:58,258 --> 00:19:00,328 And now the community knows and the community gets 385 00:19:00,328 --> 00:19:01,608 first access to it and cool. 386 00:19:01,608 --> 00:19:03,768 You're part of something, but I think building that 387 00:19:03,768 --> 00:19:05,008 community is what has helped. 388 00:19:05,053 --> 00:19:08,703 Brands like we just spoke about Gary Vee and like his entire community 389 00:19:08,893 --> 00:19:11,913 his entire business is built around community and that fan base that 390 00:19:11,913 --> 00:19:13,013 he's established for himself. 391 00:19:13,313 --> 00:19:16,483 And I think all brands, if they're really going to do this right, they're 392 00:19:16,483 --> 00:19:18,023 going to need to build that community. 393 00:19:18,043 --> 00:19:20,263 And if they're going to build that community, they're going to have to 394 00:19:20,263 --> 00:19:23,523 enjoy doing it and feel like they're in the right place in the right ecosystem. 395 00:19:23,993 --> 00:19:24,873 Matt Edmundson: Yeah, totally. 396 00:19:25,343 --> 00:19:26,943 That's super powerful stuff, man. 397 00:19:26,943 --> 00:19:30,773 And I, I think it's just refreshing to hear. 398 00:19:31,133 --> 00:19:36,763 And I'm thinking of the guy, or lady who has started their eCommerce business. 399 00:19:36,763 --> 00:19:38,123 They're the kitchen table entrepreneur. 400 00:19:39,248 --> 00:19:41,598 And they're, they're hustling hard to do their business. 401 00:19:41,598 --> 00:19:44,698 They're doing all the marketing and so on and so forth and everything to do. 402 00:19:45,228 --> 00:19:50,248 And sometimes because there's so much to do, you don't put that, that I 403 00:19:50,248 --> 00:19:54,788 think you use the word passion, that je ne sais quoi, into the creation of. 404 00:19:55,233 --> 00:19:57,993 The content is I'll just post this on, I need to post something. 405 00:19:57,993 --> 00:19:58,803 I'll just post this. 406 00:19:58,803 --> 00:20:01,503 I'll have AI generate a post, or I'll just take a picture of a product and 407 00:20:01,503 --> 00:20:02,733 I'll whack it on 'cause it's easy 408 00:20:03,443 --> 00:20:07,163 raTher than taking the time to curate meaningful content 409 00:20:07,163 --> 00:20:08,783 to build that community. 410 00:20:09,383 --> 00:20:14,108 And I think it's one of the big tensions we have as founders, as when we start 411 00:20:14,108 --> 00:20:16,658 up businesses because you are hustling, 'cause you are doing everything. 412 00:20:17,663 --> 00:20:21,413 Creating the time that you need to curate that community online 413 00:20:21,413 --> 00:20:24,993 is quite involved, isn't it? 414 00:20:24,993 --> 00:20:29,043 And I remember just the simple things like, we were really 415 00:20:29,043 --> 00:20:30,313 good with email marketing. 416 00:20:30,363 --> 00:20:32,953 Properly full on good at email marketing. 417 00:20:32,993 --> 00:20:34,003 At least I thought I was. 418 00:20:34,753 --> 00:20:38,403 And then I took a gamble and I got an agency involved just 419 00:20:38,403 --> 00:20:39,603 on the side of our email. 420 00:20:40,523 --> 00:20:45,043 Blow me, they've taken it to the next level, these guys are passionate 421 00:20:45,043 --> 00:20:47,873 and they understand all the tricks and the strategies involved. 422 00:20:48,333 --> 00:20:50,893 And they understand how to engage people in that in a way that we 423 00:20:50,893 --> 00:20:53,623 didn't because it's what they do day in day out, they grew in that. 424 00:20:54,233 --> 00:20:57,933 The same when we outsourced our Facebook marketing, and we was like 425 00:20:57,933 --> 00:21:01,173 blown away by the results, flipping not, why did we not do this sooner? 426 00:21:01,903 --> 00:21:06,023 But one of the things that you, I don't know, maybe you can speak to this, one 427 00:21:06,023 --> 00:21:10,343 of the things that I would struggle to outsource is that stuff that has to 428 00:21:10,343 --> 00:21:14,563 come from the owner, that brand voice that the owner getting on the camera and 429 00:21:14,563 --> 00:21:16,413 doing the Instagram lives or whatever. 430 00:21:16,413 --> 00:21:18,243 I don't know if you've got any thoughts on that. 431 00:21:19,833 --> 00:21:22,283 Nirav Sheth: Yeah, there's components I think we should always do the 432 00:21:22,293 --> 00:21:25,863 things that we feel not only just most comfortable doing, but the things that 433 00:21:25,863 --> 00:21:30,643 excite us, because even a founder led video that kind of showcases if it 434 00:21:30,653 --> 00:21:34,593 feels forced, if it feels like they're not enjoying doing it, it all shows up. 435 00:21:34,813 --> 00:21:37,893 The emotions come off on the video, the emotions come off on the ad, 436 00:21:38,153 --> 00:21:39,383 and that doesn't really help you. 437 00:21:39,683 --> 00:21:44,033 So I think as founders and CEOs of brands that you're a part of, you have to pick 438 00:21:44,033 --> 00:21:47,883 and choose where do you, or where does your expertise lie, and outsource the 439 00:21:47,893 --> 00:21:53,523 areas that don't fit your specific taste, but don't do it based upon discomfort. 440 00:21:53,803 --> 00:21:56,013 So I'm not talking about comfortability from a sake of 441 00:21:56,063 --> 00:21:57,433 Oh, I'm comfortable doing this. 442 00:21:57,433 --> 00:21:58,573 I'm not comfortable doing this. 443 00:21:58,573 --> 00:22:01,693 Like I'm not comfortable speaking a lot of times in the initial 444 00:22:01,693 --> 00:22:04,793 stages, but then once you start getting into it, Oh, this is fun. 445 00:22:04,793 --> 00:22:05,613 And I actually enjoy it. 446 00:22:05,613 --> 00:22:08,563 So I wouldn't say don't do based on comfortability, but do it based 447 00:22:08,563 --> 00:22:12,303 upon like interest, curiosity, things that kind of cause that all 448 00:22:12,303 --> 00:22:13,823 shows up in, in how you do things. 449 00:22:13,823 --> 00:22:17,883 And so I don't think any founder should be forced to do any of those videos, 450 00:22:18,123 --> 00:22:20,623 but if it can help by all means do it. 451 00:22:20,833 --> 00:22:24,788 But if we go back to the conversation around the hustle, don't the worst thing 452 00:22:24,788 --> 00:22:26,588 you can do as you've built your brands. 453 00:22:26,588 --> 00:22:29,868 Like again hustle might have gotten you to where you are by doing all those 454 00:22:29,868 --> 00:22:32,738 different things, but that doesn't mean that's gonna carry you forward 455 00:22:32,768 --> 00:22:37,148 .You don't know in my own personal story when I created my agency and 456 00:22:37,148 --> 00:22:38,608 I marked like focus on the work. 457 00:22:38,933 --> 00:22:40,493 My head was down. 458 00:22:40,493 --> 00:22:43,423 I barely ever looked up to even try to market the company. 459 00:22:43,613 --> 00:22:46,213 And it was great because we've got a lot of referral business and all 460 00:22:46,213 --> 00:22:49,333 that, but it wasn't great because I'd actually didn't do any marketing. 461 00:22:49,333 --> 00:22:54,033 So like I didn't have a ton of top of the lead, lead gen and funnel overall. 462 00:22:54,283 --> 00:22:56,083 And that hurt us in the longterm. 463 00:22:56,403 --> 00:22:58,078 And you have to figure out like. 464 00:22:58,248 --> 00:23:01,008 What things are going to actually move the needle for my company? 465 00:23:01,018 --> 00:23:03,358 It was actually, Hey, we need to focus on marketing and sales. 466 00:23:03,358 --> 00:23:04,558 So let's go build that engine. 467 00:23:04,778 --> 00:23:07,758 But that means I have to build a team underneath me that can actually do 468 00:23:07,758 --> 00:23:10,558 that work, and I think that's where you have to get in the mindset of 469 00:23:10,618 --> 00:23:14,758 build teams in the places that, you can rinse and repeat or get things 470 00:23:14,798 --> 00:23:19,178 operationalized and then you go focus on the next thing and the next thing. 471 00:23:19,178 --> 00:23:23,958 And as a CEO and founder, we meta, we morph ourselves almost into individuals 472 00:23:23,958 --> 00:23:27,768 almost like we almost have like 10 dfferent characters we create like one 473 00:23:27,768 --> 00:23:29,508 time we're here and one time we're here. 474 00:23:29,798 --> 00:23:33,238 But we shouldn't try to do all of those things at the same time because once we 475 00:23:33,238 --> 00:23:40,028 do, multitasking is like the killer of any level of productivity and creativity. 476 00:23:40,098 --> 00:23:42,288 If you can do multitasking amazing. 477 00:23:42,448 --> 00:23:45,468 By all means, do it, but I suck at it. 478 00:23:46,228 --> 00:23:47,078 Matt Edmundson: Yeah, I'm with you. 479 00:23:47,528 --> 00:23:49,028 It just, it does destroy it. 480 00:23:49,448 --> 00:23:50,138 And I love that. 481 00:23:50,168 --> 00:23:51,068 I love what you said. 482 00:23:51,328 --> 00:23:54,258 Do what excites you and what's going to move the needle. 483 00:23:55,858 --> 00:23:58,908 It's a great, it's a great, let me ask you a question then. 484 00:23:59,038 --> 00:24:00,218 You have your agency. 485 00:24:00,218 --> 00:24:03,768 Obviously, you talked about the time when you had your head. 486 00:24:04,073 --> 00:24:07,263 So deep into, your client work that you didn't market the business. 487 00:24:07,263 --> 00:24:08,093 So you grew that team. 488 00:24:08,683 --> 00:24:10,953 What excites you as the founder and the CEO? 489 00:24:11,013 --> 00:24:12,763 What excite, what moves the needle for you? 490 00:24:12,763 --> 00:24:16,403 What sort of things do you like doing that sort of works for your business? 491 00:24:17,408 --> 00:24:19,858 Other than coming on to this podcast, obviously, 492 00:24:20,828 --> 00:24:26,728 Nirav Sheth: obviously, I love talking to amazing founders. 493 00:24:26,768 --> 00:24:29,378 I love kind of hearing their story and what they're doing, 494 00:24:29,378 --> 00:24:30,928 but I also love problem solving. 495 00:24:30,988 --> 00:24:36,028 So I love being faced with a major challenge when it comes to tech technology 496 00:24:36,038 --> 00:24:41,118 or user experience or kind of places where businesses hit ceilings and being like. 497 00:24:41,323 --> 00:24:42,823 Why have we hit the ceiling here? 498 00:24:42,823 --> 00:24:44,303 What's the next stage of where we go? 499 00:24:44,533 --> 00:24:49,653 Having those conversations, strategizing together, talking through different kind 500 00:24:49,653 --> 00:24:52,073 of ways of solving it is what excites me. 501 00:24:52,083 --> 00:24:55,273 And that's what I end up doing regularly is like I spend my time 502 00:24:55,603 --> 00:24:56,803 talking about those subjects. 503 00:24:56,813 --> 00:25:01,053 Recently we, I gave this really fun talk at the Shopify conference, 504 00:25:01,053 --> 00:25:04,803 which was just about a week ago, about how we launched a 1. 505 00:25:04,843 --> 00:25:07,773 5 billion GMV brand in 30 days. 506 00:25:07,983 --> 00:25:12,863 It's the fastest ever enterprise implementation ever and it was such a 507 00:25:12,863 --> 00:25:17,163 crazy project, but it was such a fun project to solve for with my team. 508 00:25:17,223 --> 00:25:20,803 I definitely did not do this alone, but with my team, we were able to 509 00:25:20,803 --> 00:25:24,473 actually take a very large enterprise brand that we'll be announcing shortly. 510 00:25:24,473 --> 00:25:27,293 I think it's going to go live in the next week or two and I'll. 511 00:25:27,388 --> 00:25:28,618 Be happy to share who this is. 512 00:25:28,948 --> 00:25:32,088 But this is a very large company that needed to go live because 513 00:25:32,088 --> 00:25:33,758 they had come out of bankruptcy. 514 00:25:33,998 --> 00:25:36,948 They got bought over by a private equity company and they 515 00:25:36,948 --> 00:25:38,128 needed to make their site live. 516 00:25:38,128 --> 00:25:44,348 So we actually got legitimately 30 days to go build this Shopify plus based 517 00:25:44,678 --> 00:25:46,868 enterprise site completely end to end. 518 00:25:46,868 --> 00:25:48,348 And I'm not talking about a proof of concept. 519 00:25:48,408 --> 00:25:52,778 I'm talking about a complete end to end build with 30, 000 SKUs, 8 520 00:25:52,778 --> 00:25:54,558 million customers being migrated. 521 00:25:54,883 --> 00:25:58,543 All of this stuff all done, and that's the fun stuff that I enjoy doing. 522 00:25:58,553 --> 00:26:03,323 I love not only being able to strategize an idea and figure out how to do it, 523 00:26:03,533 --> 00:26:06,393 but then I love being able to share that with others so that, to know 524 00:26:06,393 --> 00:26:09,563 that this is a possibility, because being able to beat timelines, like 525 00:26:09,563 --> 00:26:12,623 normally something like this takes six months to do, like at minimum. 526 00:26:13,028 --> 00:26:18,458 So to say we got it done in 30 days is a moonshot by all means, and we're 527 00:26:18,458 --> 00:26:23,258 so glad that it was successful, and there was like 99 reasons why it was 528 00:26:23,258 --> 00:26:26,888 going to be unsuccessful, and luckily we got through it, but it was a big 529 00:26:26,888 --> 00:26:30,498 thing, so that was a, something I enjoy doing and I love doing as a founder. 530 00:26:33,098 --> 00:26:34,428 Matt Edmundson: I'm just sitting here listening to you talk 531 00:26:34,428 --> 00:26:37,128 about like 30, 000 products and what was it, 8, 000 customers? 532 00:26:37,733 --> 00:26:41,133 In 30 days, 8 million, 8 million customers, wow, Jesus, 533 00:26:46,893 --> 00:26:50,583 Shopify Plus is come on, it's coming a long way, because there 534 00:26:50,583 --> 00:26:52,923 were times when you wouldn't have been able to do that with Shopify. 535 00:26:52,953 --> 00:26:55,853 But this is where I think the development those guys have been 536 00:26:55,853 --> 00:26:58,973 doing has been phenomenal and it enables you to do things like that. 537 00:27:00,448 --> 00:27:01,028 Nirav Sheth: Absolutely. 538 00:27:01,028 --> 00:27:04,308 Shopify was never considered the enterprise platform for big, 539 00:27:04,318 --> 00:27:05,798 billion dollar GMV companies. 540 00:27:06,178 --> 00:27:10,028 But if you look across the board, most of the big GMV pure play DTC brands 541 00:27:10,028 --> 00:27:13,518 are leveraging Shopify, but outside of the pure plays, the retail side, 542 00:27:13,878 --> 00:27:15,308 they're moving over to Shopify too. 543 00:27:15,338 --> 00:27:18,808 At the Shopify conference, we saw brands like Authentic Brands Group, 544 00:27:18,808 --> 00:27:22,618 which runs Nautica and Reba, are actually moving to Shopify as well. 545 00:27:23,148 --> 00:27:23,468 Matt Edmundson: Wow. 546 00:27:24,093 --> 00:27:24,963 Yeah, they're doing well. 547 00:27:24,973 --> 00:27:25,883 They're doing well. 548 00:27:26,943 --> 00:27:28,313 So is that what your agency does? 549 00:27:28,543 --> 00:27:31,483 You do Shopify stuff or is there other stuff you do as well? 550 00:27:32,683 --> 00:27:34,633 Nirav Sheth: We pri we've been focused a hundred percent 551 00:27:34,633 --> 00:27:36,703 on Shopify Plus since 2014. 552 00:27:36,703 --> 00:27:38,563 So we made the shift very early on. 553 00:27:38,593 --> 00:27:41,923 We were Magento partners, we were WooCommerce platforms 554 00:27:41,923 --> 00:27:44,503 prior to that in 2012 and 2010. 555 00:27:44,893 --> 00:27:47,203 But in 2014, we made the complete shift. 556 00:27:47,233 --> 00:27:50,083 It was a massive risk that we took at that point, but it just felt like 557 00:27:50,088 --> 00:27:53,053 the right move to make just where, based on where the momentum was going. 558 00:27:53,353 --> 00:27:53,473 Yeah. 559 00:27:53,473 --> 00:27:55,363 But again, at that time, enterprise wasn't the big. 560 00:27:55,523 --> 00:27:58,973 Play, but we saw that the brands that, especially the multimillion dollar 561 00:27:58,973 --> 00:28:01,793 brands that were growing the fastest and making it to the stages of a 562 00:28:01,793 --> 00:28:05,183 hundred million plus, they were all leveraging Shopify just because of 563 00:28:05,188 --> 00:28:06,683 the growth capabilities that we had. 564 00:28:06,688 --> 00:28:09,413 And we just didn't have to spend so much time developing a bunch 565 00:28:09,413 --> 00:28:12,083 of useless features that didn't really help move the needle. 566 00:28:12,493 --> 00:28:12,943 Matt Edmundson: Yeah, no. 567 00:28:12,943 --> 00:28:13,573 Fantastic. 568 00:28:13,753 --> 00:28:14,293 Fantastic. 569 00:28:14,503 --> 00:28:18,023 What are some of the, you went to the Shopify for a sec. 570 00:28:18,263 --> 00:28:20,653 What are some of the interesting features coming out that you've 571 00:28:20,653 --> 00:28:21,863 seen that you go, that's cool. 572 00:28:21,913 --> 00:28:22,763 That's really clever. 573 00:28:24,253 --> 00:28:27,233 Nirav Sheth: I think a lot of the stuff that they're doing on the enterprise side 574 00:28:27,283 --> 00:28:32,003 around their point of sale solution and their B2B solution are really fantastic. 575 00:28:32,253 --> 00:28:35,323 They've done a lot of different upgrades where Shopify wasn't like the one that 576 00:28:35,323 --> 00:28:38,113 you use in store, but now it's starting to get leveraged because there's 577 00:28:38,113 --> 00:28:39,463 a lot more features a part of it. 578 00:28:39,813 --> 00:28:42,163 I think the B2B focus has been really cool. 579 00:28:42,663 --> 00:28:46,033 Awesome, because what they've done is they've actually built an online 580 00:28:46,033 --> 00:28:49,173 storefront that mirrors what the customer experience is but for 581 00:28:49,173 --> 00:28:51,823 their wholesale customers, and like you can do all these really cool 582 00:28:51,833 --> 00:28:55,993 pricing adjustments and payment terms and things like that around that. 583 00:28:55,993 --> 00:28:57,113 So I really love that. 584 00:28:57,123 --> 00:29:01,213 I also really love what they've done with Shopify Markets Pro, which is their 585 00:29:01,223 --> 00:29:04,863 international solution, and the ability for brands to be able to go outside 586 00:29:04,863 --> 00:29:08,838 of their local country and be able to actually publish on multiple different 587 00:29:08,838 --> 00:29:12,588 countries where they act as the seller of record and you don't have to worry about 588 00:29:12,588 --> 00:29:16,068 a lot of the legalities and issues about being able to sell in another country. 589 00:29:16,398 --> 00:29:19,403 So I think that being all those different features that they've enabled 590 00:29:19,408 --> 00:29:20,743 have really done some fun stuff. 591 00:29:20,928 --> 00:29:24,618 In addition, they launched, they pushed their whole one, one step checkout. 592 00:29:24,928 --> 00:29:27,278 They're still waiting on getting data back, which is really interesting. 593 00:29:27,278 --> 00:29:30,128 I spoke with the lead engineer on the Shopify checkout side and they, 594 00:29:30,408 --> 00:29:34,118 I'm a, I have a lot of history in the checkout process with Magento 595 00:29:34,118 --> 00:29:38,058 and I built an app a long time ago around like this concept of a one step 596 00:29:38,058 --> 00:29:40,258 checkout versus a one page checkout. 597 00:29:40,478 --> 00:29:45,223 And everyone thinks that one step checkout always Overperformance one page checkout, 598 00:29:45,263 --> 00:29:49,123 but in my past history, that wasn't the case and right now Shopify is still 599 00:29:49,123 --> 00:29:52,643 collecting data to even determine is a one step checkout where everything is just 600 00:29:52,653 --> 00:29:57,443 on the screen all at once is technically better than a one page where it's still 601 00:29:57,443 --> 00:30:00,953 one page and you're going through step by step, but you're not presenting all 602 00:30:00,953 --> 00:30:02,393 the information right out the gate. 603 00:30:03,073 --> 00:30:05,173 Matt Edmundson: I'll be really curious to know that because I was reading 604 00:30:05,173 --> 00:30:07,993 the other day something it wasn't necessarily to do with checkouts, 605 00:30:07,993 --> 00:30:09,233 it was more to do with forms. 606 00:30:09,858 --> 00:30:13,548 And when you're collecting data from people, if you ask them one question 607 00:30:13,548 --> 00:30:17,468 at a time, so you ask a question, it goes you to the next question, 608 00:30:17,548 --> 00:30:18,938 which takes you to the next question. 609 00:30:19,278 --> 00:30:21,448 Very much like the oh, what's that? 610 00:30:22,788 --> 00:30:24,918 Is it true for, no, true form, type form. 611 00:30:24,958 --> 00:30:32,358 Type form is the thing that I'm thinking of, and you the evidence is, or the data 612 00:30:32,358 --> 00:30:35,978 was saying that way was a much more. 613 00:30:36,538 --> 00:30:41,008 Effective way to collect data from people, but it may be that's a more effective 614 00:30:41,088 --> 00:30:44,538 way to collect data from people when it's one or two things, like your name and 615 00:30:44,538 --> 00:30:46,248 email address or something like that. 616 00:30:46,918 --> 00:30:49,228 I'll be, I'm very curious to see what happens there. 617 00:30:49,858 --> 00:30:50,598 We're learning 618 00:30:50,598 --> 00:30:52,628 Nirav Sheth: some cool information from that group too, because 619 00:30:52,628 --> 00:30:54,648 they said it depends on industry. 620 00:30:54,678 --> 00:30:59,188 So the more you can have auto saved information already that pre populates 621 00:30:59,198 --> 00:31:02,008 a lot of the fields, because like as soon as shop pay turns on or you 622 00:31:02,008 --> 00:31:04,068 logged in, everything pre fills. 623 00:31:04,288 --> 00:31:07,518 Then having everything on one step, you're just like checking things 624 00:31:07,518 --> 00:31:10,448 that everything's right and you just scroll down and hit complete. 625 00:31:10,598 --> 00:31:13,278 That actually works a lot better on a one step. 626 00:31:13,618 --> 00:31:16,658 But if you're having to fill out information and make sure you're doing 627 00:31:16,658 --> 00:31:20,438 every step correctly, the worst thing is that you spent 45 seconds or one 628 00:31:20,438 --> 00:31:23,368 minute filling all this information out or even longer and then you're 629 00:31:23,368 --> 00:31:26,328 told hey There's an error and then you don't know where it is on the page. 630 00:31:26,458 --> 00:31:29,128 Yeah, that's when you people abandon They're just like ah screw it. 631 00:31:29,128 --> 00:31:29,908 I don't want to do this again. 632 00:31:29,948 --> 00:31:34,068 Yeah, so that's what you just have to be very mindful of But yes, you're 633 00:31:34,068 --> 00:31:37,108 totally right It's really depending on industry as well as a couple different 634 00:31:37,108 --> 00:31:41,768 parameters That dictate whether or not one step versus one page and so forth. 635 00:31:43,088 --> 00:31:45,533 Matt Edmundson: What's really cool is other than the fact that you're on 636 00:31:45,533 --> 00:31:48,943 the other side of the world and we're talking quite coherently using video 637 00:31:49,143 --> 00:31:52,013 technology, which still blows my mind because I'm a bit of a dinosaur, I'm 638 00:31:52,013 --> 00:31:55,343 not going to lie I remember the days when your phone was tied to the wall, 639 00:31:55,443 --> 00:31:58,683 and you had a six foot radius, which you could walk and that was about it. 640 00:31:59,343 --> 00:32:03,303 But it's fascinating that, eCommerce is such a young industry, but here we are 641 00:32:03,313 --> 00:32:08,213 debating You know what, using data, we can figure out what's a more effective 642 00:32:08,213 --> 00:32:11,703 way to present our checkout, in, in different formats and understand that. 643 00:32:11,703 --> 00:32:13,763 And I, that's, I just think that's cool. 644 00:32:13,983 --> 00:32:14,453 That's cool. 645 00:32:14,943 --> 00:32:17,623 So SubSummit, you're going to be talking about memberships. 646 00:32:18,583 --> 00:32:23,383 What are some of the things then that you've seen in the subscription business? 647 00:32:23,778 --> 00:32:27,708 Again, tying it back to what the title of the podcast is, what do 648 00:32:27,708 --> 00:32:30,778 multimillion brands have in common that we should be thinking about? 649 00:32:32,568 --> 00:32:33,018 Nirav Sheth: Yeah. 650 00:32:33,268 --> 00:32:37,208 And tying it back to the original premise, like the multimillion dollar 651 00:32:37,208 --> 00:32:39,558 brands look at retention differently. 652 00:32:39,668 --> 00:32:43,278 They see retention being extremely valuable and not just for the 653 00:32:43,278 --> 00:32:47,028 additional revenue, but how it's about reframing the positioning. 654 00:32:47,078 --> 00:32:50,438 And what I mean by that is that when you invest in your customers. 655 00:32:50,758 --> 00:32:55,118 You're, you build loyalty and when you build that loyalty, you're also 656 00:32:55,118 --> 00:32:59,008 building a listening channel that unlocks gems that kind of help your 657 00:32:59,008 --> 00:33:01,308 copy and positioning for new prospects. 658 00:33:01,998 --> 00:33:05,818 You're never going to find this through agencies and outside marketing. 659 00:33:05,858 --> 00:33:09,978 Your diamonds are going to come from your customers if you're willing to dig deep. 660 00:33:09,993 --> 00:33:15,453 And retention is an amazing growth channel, like it gets looked at as just 661 00:33:15,453 --> 00:33:18,423 like a, Hey, there's the acquisition funnel and then there's a retention 662 00:33:18,423 --> 00:33:23,083 funnel, but there's so much that can be done on the retention side that can 663 00:33:23,093 --> 00:33:28,143 really not only improve your lifetime value, but that can also lead to a lot of 664 00:33:28,143 --> 00:33:31,243 referrals and strong long term loyalty. 665 00:33:31,583 --> 00:33:34,973 And so a lot of the conversation I'm going to be having with a few different 666 00:33:34,973 --> 00:33:38,343 merchants on stage at SubSummit is actually going to be talking about it. 667 00:33:38,343 --> 00:33:38,403 Thank you. 668 00:33:38,403 --> 00:33:38,468 Bye. 669 00:33:38,928 --> 00:33:42,248 Different practices and methods that they'd be able to leverage in the 670 00:33:42,248 --> 00:33:47,208 retention side that really go to help improve their Acquisition side of things 671 00:33:47,208 --> 00:33:52,658 but also learn these really amazing insights about the consumers one of the 672 00:33:52,668 --> 00:33:55,828 things that we learned working with a what one of the companies that there we 673 00:33:55,828 --> 00:34:00,378 work with a footwear and uniform company and one of the things we've learned 674 00:34:00,398 --> 00:34:08,358 is that If you sell the apparel before you sell the footwear and the LTV is 675 00:34:08,358 --> 00:34:12,178 significantly higher than if you sell the footwear first and then the apparel. 676 00:34:13,108 --> 00:34:17,198 It's because of the way that like the way that their products work and like 677 00:34:17,198 --> 00:34:21,903 the differentiation of it, but like That consumer insight, we wouldn't have 678 00:34:21,903 --> 00:34:25,733 learned if we didn't spend enough time on the retention angle and to figure out 679 00:34:25,733 --> 00:34:27,983 that's a higher LTV coming from that. 680 00:34:28,343 --> 00:34:33,813 And so the LTV, like these types of kind of gems you would only get by 681 00:34:33,813 --> 00:34:38,883 paying attention to one data, but also consumer conversations that you're having 682 00:34:39,033 --> 00:34:41,123 that on what, once they post purchase. 683 00:34:41,503 --> 00:34:42,943 And it's not just a survey. 684 00:34:42,943 --> 00:34:45,833 Sometimes it's actually sitting down with like your most loyal 685 00:34:45,843 --> 00:34:47,553 customers and asking them questions. 686 00:34:47,608 --> 00:34:51,248 A footwear company like Rothy's that we worked with for a long time, sitting 687 00:34:51,248 --> 00:34:54,238 down with those Rothy's addicts, we're sitting down with those groups 688 00:34:54,238 --> 00:34:57,058 of individuals, the same thing with Athletic Green, sitting down with who's 689 00:34:57,068 --> 00:35:01,918 been subscribing for you for a long time and understanding what it keeps 690 00:35:01,918 --> 00:35:05,698 them, what keeps them using the product consistently, what keeps them buying more. 691 00:35:05,948 --> 00:35:10,758 And you'll start learning exactly the words and things that they use and be 692 00:35:10,758 --> 00:35:14,628 able to, when you can use those words and reframe it back on the acquisition funnel. 693 00:35:14,883 --> 00:35:16,623 It becomes a game changer. 694 00:35:16,653 --> 00:35:20,133 It becomes such a big, because you're now talking the language that they're talking, 695 00:35:20,273 --> 00:35:22,063 which is what your prospects are wanting. 696 00:35:22,293 --> 00:35:25,953 And you would have never gotten that by like testing of 50 different 697 00:35:25,963 --> 00:35:29,233 words and scenarios, because like you don't know the exact mapping of what 698 00:35:29,233 --> 00:35:30,963 the consumer really wants to hear. 699 00:35:31,263 --> 00:35:33,823 And so I think retention is extremely valuable. 700 00:35:33,953 --> 00:35:35,933 And it's really important to pay attention to. 701 00:35:36,233 --> 00:35:39,503 Retention numbers and what's, what retention can give you, but pay 702 00:35:39,503 --> 00:35:42,383 attention to that whole funnel because most brands are always paying 703 00:35:42,383 --> 00:35:43,763 attention to the acquisition funnels. 704 00:35:43,813 --> 00:35:44,893 Hey, what's my cac? 705 00:35:45,263 --> 00:35:47,213 How can I acquire more customers overall? 706 00:35:47,213 --> 00:35:48,443 How do I get top line revenue? 707 00:35:49,183 --> 00:35:49,723 Great. 708 00:35:49,783 --> 00:35:51,793 You've, if you can do that. 709 00:35:52,003 --> 00:35:54,383 What about the whole other funnel side of retention? 710 00:35:54,383 --> 00:35:57,493 Because that's a whole, you can double your business purely through 711 00:35:57,513 --> 00:36:00,483 the retention funnel as well, but a lot of times they just keep focusing 712 00:36:00,483 --> 00:36:01,893 on the acquisition side too often. 713 00:36:02,333 --> 00:36:02,773 Yeah. 714 00:36:02,973 --> 00:36:07,793 Matt Edmundson: And it's just this debate, which doesn't, it never goes away. 715 00:36:09,103 --> 00:36:12,483 You often hear it, oh we should focus more on acquisition, oh we should focus more 716 00:36:12,483 --> 00:36:15,693 on retention, oh we should focus, and it goes back and forth and back and forth. 717 00:36:16,033 --> 00:36:21,443 And actually, I guess what I've noticed from the brands that I've seen that are 718 00:36:21,453 --> 00:36:23,703 successful, they do both really well. 719 00:36:24,868 --> 00:36:29,728 And it's the ones that just focus on one end up struggling after a while. 720 00:36:29,728 --> 00:36:32,268 So if you just focus on retention, but you never feed in the top of 721 00:36:32,268 --> 00:36:33,368 the funnel, you've got a problem. 722 00:36:33,368 --> 00:36:36,638 If you focus just on acquisition and you don't, they're going out the 723 00:36:36,638 --> 00:36:39,888 back door as soon as they come in the front door you've got a problem. 724 00:36:39,948 --> 00:36:45,708 And so it's, I, again I, when I took over the beauty business, one of the 725 00:36:45,718 --> 00:36:49,258 things that we did was we switched our focus from acquisition to retention. 726 00:36:49,818 --> 00:36:50,388 We'd spent. 727 00:36:50,808 --> 00:36:54,488 Hundreds, if not millions, acquiring all these customers. 728 00:36:54,488 --> 00:36:57,168 And it was we've got them now. 729 00:36:57,168 --> 00:36:58,238 What are we going to do with them? 730 00:36:58,238 --> 00:37:01,518 And actually, when we focused a lot more on retention and started thinking a little 731 00:37:01,518 --> 00:37:07,358 bit about that revenue just skyrocketed, just, it, it went up like 20, 30%. 732 00:37:07,358 --> 00:37:08,978 You just went, what was the following? 733 00:37:08,988 --> 00:37:11,358 You're like, geez, man, the amount of money I'd have had to spend 734 00:37:11,358 --> 00:37:12,948 on ads, just to get that growth. 735 00:37:14,488 --> 00:37:18,728 So yeah, I fully appreciate what you're saying, it's the retention. 736 00:37:18,978 --> 00:37:20,408 Retention is a funny thing though, isn't it? 737 00:37:20,408 --> 00:37:25,653 Because you To do retention well, you've actually got to do customer service and 738 00:37:25,653 --> 00:37:27,613 this, I think this scares a lot of people. 739 00:37:27,853 --> 00:37:30,133 I think a lot of people, certainly in the early days, got into the 740 00:37:30,133 --> 00:37:32,863 internet because it just meant they didn't have to do customer service. 741 00:37:32,873 --> 00:37:34,953 It's you don't want to buy it, find somebody else will, that kind of thing. 742 00:37:36,643 --> 00:37:40,963 Nirav Sheth: And what I would say to that is I go back to, the recently deceased 743 00:37:40,963 --> 00:37:43,103 Tony Hsieh and his work on Zappos. 744 00:37:43,133 --> 00:37:45,853 It's always been a game changer for me of being able to provide amazing 745 00:37:45,853 --> 00:37:48,383 customer service and what that empowers. 746 00:37:48,848 --> 00:37:52,118 And I've always seen it a little bit differently and instead of focusing and 747 00:37:52,118 --> 00:37:55,448 thinking about customer service as like a retention, what if you thought of 748 00:37:55,448 --> 00:37:59,188 customer service as sales agents and that like what they're really doing is just 749 00:37:59,228 --> 00:38:01,218 having conversations to close a sale. 750 00:38:01,478 --> 00:38:05,478 Because if in our businesses, like you have salespeople that like they 751 00:38:05,478 --> 00:38:08,378 come, someone comes to talk to you, you have to discuss what the proposal 752 00:38:08,378 --> 00:38:10,928 is going to be and then you're working on closing that person. 753 00:38:11,248 --> 00:38:13,918 If you don't have your closers, who's going to do that work? 754 00:38:14,248 --> 00:38:17,588 And so a lot of times, the people are ready to make decisions on 755 00:38:17,588 --> 00:38:20,248 your buying, but sometimes they just need to talk to somebody. 756 00:38:20,258 --> 00:38:23,428 And like the best customer service people aren't just trying to give canned 757 00:38:23,428 --> 00:38:27,848 responses, which is sometimes like what, what takes away from this whole AI 758 00:38:27,848 --> 00:38:31,258 powered like chat programs that are out there are they really that beneficial 759 00:38:31,258 --> 00:38:32,808 if they're not actively selling? 760 00:38:32,868 --> 00:38:35,818 Wouldn't it be better that the customer service person is tell me more about 761 00:38:35,818 --> 00:38:38,898 what you're liking and digging deep and becoming, creating personal connection? 762 00:38:39,728 --> 00:38:42,918 What we saw at Zappos and like what Tony Hsieh wrote about it a lot in his 763 00:38:42,918 --> 00:38:45,898 book and kind of talking about like the Delivering happiness side of things 764 00:38:45,898 --> 00:38:49,048 was like if you're able to create that relationship with that person They don't 765 00:38:49,058 --> 00:38:52,398 really care that they can buy shoes from five other different places for 766 00:38:52,398 --> 00:38:56,078 more expensive They're gonna keep coming back to you because you they built that 767 00:38:56,078 --> 00:38:59,188 brand integrity and that brand loyalty with you Yeah, that they don't care 768 00:38:59,188 --> 00:39:02,508 about anything else They're gonna want to talk and work with you and I think 769 00:39:02,508 --> 00:39:06,508 that's what a different model For brands, some brands will not be behind that. 770 00:39:06,508 --> 00:39:09,028 They're like, I don't want to do customer service, but if you see it as 771 00:39:09,028 --> 00:39:10,668 a sales thing, it actually becomes fun. 772 00:39:10,718 --> 00:39:14,328 And it can sound a way to incentivize how those programs work. 773 00:39:15,128 --> 00:39:17,648 Matt Edmundson: One of the interesting things that we've been toying around 774 00:39:17,648 --> 00:39:24,448 with was this again, I'm going back in time a little bit, but you used 775 00:39:24,448 --> 00:39:28,198 to have in the old days when we ran businesses without the web you'd 776 00:39:28,198 --> 00:39:30,178 have a customer account managers. 777 00:39:30,383 --> 00:39:32,393 And these people would stay in touch. 778 00:39:32,453 --> 00:39:35,113 Like you'd call up every six months, Hey, how's it getting on? 779 00:39:35,113 --> 00:39:37,303 How you getting on with whatever it was that they were using 780 00:39:37,303 --> 00:39:38,383 from your customer service? 781 00:39:39,003 --> 00:39:41,703 And so you would have this constant stay in touch with 'em, this constant 782 00:39:41,703 --> 00:39:45,593 relationship, and the customer account manager knew the client so they 783 00:39:45,598 --> 00:39:47,363 could send them tailored information. 784 00:39:48,273 --> 00:39:53,923 And so I've been for a while thinking, how does this work for e-comm, right? 785 00:39:53,923 --> 00:39:54,913 How do I get this? 786 00:39:55,298 --> 00:40:00,088 Concept because we send out newsletters like everybody else and we send out 787 00:40:00,088 --> 00:40:05,288 sequences, but in the middle There's the customer account manager role, right? 788 00:40:05,288 --> 00:40:08,668 So i'm not just waiting for emails to come in for me I want 789 00:40:08,708 --> 00:40:10,358 the customer service team to go. 790 00:40:10,648 --> 00:40:15,088 Hey susan We noticed that you've you know, you're a big fan of this 791 00:40:15,308 --> 00:40:18,058 Or, as soon as they've ordered for the first time, sending them an 792 00:40:18,058 --> 00:40:19,738 email going, Hey, my name's Matt. 793 00:40:19,768 --> 00:40:20,648 I'm your account manager. 794 00:40:20,648 --> 00:40:22,208 You, here's my direct email. 795 00:40:22,208 --> 00:40:23,068 Here's my direct number. 796 00:40:23,068 --> 00:40:24,928 You've got any questions, any concerns going forward. 797 00:40:25,238 --> 00:40:26,768 You reach out to me and I'll let you know. 798 00:40:27,208 --> 00:40:29,128 And then in a few months time, I'm going to reach out to them 799 00:40:29,128 --> 00:40:31,368 and say, Hey, you tried this. 800 00:40:31,948 --> 00:40:34,528 I think this will work really well for you because of X, Y, and Z. 801 00:40:35,348 --> 00:40:38,148 20 percent off. 802 00:40:38,148 --> 00:40:40,428 If you use this coupon code, try it, email me back. 803 00:40:40,428 --> 00:40:41,128 Let me know what you think. 804 00:40:41,128 --> 00:40:41,648 I'd love to know. 805 00:40:42,218 --> 00:40:44,038 The success of those emails. 806 00:40:44,408 --> 00:40:48,598 It's quite extraordinary because you're talking to ordinary people, 807 00:40:49,048 --> 00:40:50,298 you're having those conversations. 808 00:40:50,548 --> 00:40:54,958 And do you know who I noticed has started doing this really well is Apple. 809 00:40:55,818 --> 00:41:00,588 So Apple now uh, I have a, cause I just buy so many Apple products, whether 810 00:41:00,588 --> 00:41:01,828 that's right or wrong, I don't know. 811 00:41:02,828 --> 00:41:04,188 Apple have gone away. 812 00:41:04,188 --> 00:41:05,358 You're a business, Matthew, aren't you? 813 00:41:05,358 --> 00:41:06,268 Yes, I am a business. 814 00:41:06,268 --> 00:41:08,708 And they go, great, we're going to give you a business manager. 815 00:41:09,118 --> 00:41:10,738 And Alex, I think his name is. 816 00:41:11,333 --> 00:41:13,773 It used to be David's just recently changed, he called 817 00:41:13,773 --> 00:41:15,503 me up iPhone 15 comes out. 818 00:41:15,503 --> 00:41:17,573 Matt, the iPhone 15's coming out, do you want one? 819 00:41:17,573 --> 00:41:23,393 I said, I do now, yes, which is great, I'll put your name on the list. 820 00:41:23,393 --> 00:41:26,283 And I didn't even have to go on the website, I didn't have to order anything, 821 00:41:26,283 --> 00:41:29,528 he just, And they just send you emails, you click this link and pay for it, 822 00:41:29,558 --> 00:41:33,418 and it's great, and it's wonderful, and I know the website's there, and I 823 00:41:33,418 --> 00:41:36,548 know I can shop on it, but I just get emails from Alex, and Alex goes and 824 00:41:36,548 --> 00:41:39,328 now if I want something, I don't even go on the website, I just email Alex, 825 00:41:39,328 --> 00:41:42,858 can I get this, and he'll go, sure, and it's working really well, and There's 826 00:41:42,878 --> 00:41:48,788 something about that relationship, isn't there, where you can really, exploits 827 00:41:48,788 --> 00:41:52,178 the wrong word, but you can really use that to both yours and your customer's 828 00:41:52,178 --> 00:41:54,628 advantage if you just like people, 829 00:41:54,848 --> 00:42:00,818 Nirav Sheth: I can't agree more, and we saw this in around 2018, 2019 with a brand 830 00:42:00,818 --> 00:42:02,038 that we worked with called Four Sigmatic. 831 00:42:02,478 --> 00:42:05,878 They really launched the mushroom coffee world and the chaga and the 832 00:42:05,878 --> 00:42:07,388 reishi and these functional mushrooms. 833 00:42:07,388 --> 00:42:08,828 And they've done really well. 834 00:42:08,828 --> 00:42:12,468 And one of the things that they did early on was they created a membership 835 00:42:12,478 --> 00:42:15,708 program, but a part of the membership program and really a membership 836 00:42:15,718 --> 00:42:18,928 was just if you buy anything on subscription, you became a member. 837 00:42:19,203 --> 00:42:21,553 What they did was they provided a membership concierge. 838 00:42:21,663 --> 00:42:24,583 Now this is, they did the membership concierge very similar 839 00:42:24,583 --> 00:42:26,163 to an American Express concierge. 840 00:42:26,183 --> 00:42:28,653 So if anybody has an American Express card, they know like they can get on 841 00:42:28,653 --> 00:42:31,683 the phone with the concierge service and you can get them to order tickets. 842 00:42:31,683 --> 00:42:34,893 You can do booking hotels, like they do a lot of things for you. 843 00:42:35,153 --> 00:42:38,903 Similarly, Four Sigmatic had a membership concierge and they, what they did was 844 00:42:38,903 --> 00:42:42,983 they were segmenting their groups of audiences and in Shopify and a lot of 845 00:42:42,983 --> 00:42:45,893 these tool sets now you can segment your groups and say, Hey, this is 846 00:42:45,893 --> 00:42:49,873 VIP customer, or this is a five year customer versus a four year customer. 847 00:42:50,163 --> 00:42:52,113 And you can, they started doing some cool things. 848 00:42:52,113 --> 00:42:55,633 They started doing early samples of new products that they were coming out with. 849 00:42:55,643 --> 00:42:58,853 So like you would get sample products and like for free, 850 00:42:58,903 --> 00:42:59,933 you're not paying for any of this. 851 00:42:59,933 --> 00:43:01,633 You were actually getting free samples sent to you. 852 00:43:01,673 --> 00:43:05,218 It's Hey, I know you like this protein blend and I think this kind of like really 853 00:43:05,218 --> 00:43:07,558 cool turmeric shot will go well with it. 854 00:43:07,738 --> 00:43:09,488 Or this energy shot will go well with it. 855 00:43:09,688 --> 00:43:12,508 And they would figure out and see like what's been sent to you and what's 856 00:43:12,508 --> 00:43:14,118 not and it wasn't that complicated. 857 00:43:14,128 --> 00:43:16,868 They're just tagging the customer as they're sending things out 858 00:43:17,128 --> 00:43:19,858 and then they're following up and you could still do it as a more. 859 00:43:20,153 --> 00:43:21,233 Account-based marketing. 860 00:43:21,233 --> 00:43:23,723 And you're doing it like a group of people versus individual. 861 00:43:23,883 --> 00:43:28,143 So maybe not as tailored towards the individual, Hey, here's the iPhone 15. 862 00:43:28,143 --> 00:43:29,013 Would you like to buy it? 863 00:43:29,013 --> 00:43:32,468 But saying, Hey, this a hundred people, let's sign on a message to them. 864 00:43:32,468 --> 00:43:35,798 Still personalize it, but it could be like to a grouping of people and 865 00:43:35,798 --> 00:43:39,828 you create that level of support and that level of concierge component. 866 00:43:40,008 --> 00:43:40,068 Yeah. 867 00:43:40,068 --> 00:43:43,933 And people feel really warm and fuzzy behind that because they're like, Oh, I'm 868 00:43:43,933 --> 00:43:47,453 actually being treated as an individual versus just another cog in their system. 869 00:43:47,863 --> 00:43:51,513 And I think that's like the type of customer service, like there's customer 870 00:43:51,513 --> 00:43:55,073 service, then there's that concierge and kind of that individual part. 871 00:43:55,263 --> 00:43:56,503 And I think that's instrumental. 872 00:43:56,503 --> 00:43:58,523 And I think brands have been doing it for some time. 873 00:43:58,543 --> 00:44:00,803 Some of them have been really smart to take advantage of that. 874 00:44:01,103 --> 00:44:04,323 Some have fallen behind and not seen that opportunity and being like. 875 00:44:04,703 --> 00:44:08,633 There's a massive amount of money to make, and by just having this one or two 876 00:44:08,633 --> 00:44:14,383 person available on the concierge side, LTV across the board shot up massively. 877 00:44:14,613 --> 00:44:19,453 So this paid for those individuals two to five times over for what they 878 00:44:19,453 --> 00:44:20,583 were spending on their salaries. 879 00:44:20,888 --> 00:44:22,098 Matt Edmundson: Yeah, I've no doubt. 880 00:44:22,258 --> 00:44:24,398 I've done that's my experience, with this whole thing. 881 00:44:24,398 --> 00:44:26,488 And I think it's really interesting. 882 00:44:26,488 --> 00:44:27,178 Yeah, you're right. 883 00:44:27,248 --> 00:44:32,538 You can bring a level of automation to this account based marketing. 884 00:44:32,538 --> 00:44:35,288 It doesn't all have to be, I've got to send out an email to Joan, 885 00:44:35,308 --> 00:44:37,178 Susan to, and do it all myself. 886 00:44:37,588 --> 00:44:41,298 You can bring a level of automation to it if you're smart, but I think 887 00:44:41,298 --> 00:44:42,808 it's something to really dig into. 888 00:44:43,208 --> 00:44:44,308 Really interesting. 889 00:44:44,698 --> 00:44:48,468 Listen, I'm aware of time. 890 00:44:48,653 --> 00:44:51,833 And I've, we've just got started, my friend, we just 891 00:44:51,843 --> 00:44:53,623 literally just got started. 892 00:44:53,993 --> 00:44:58,573 If people want to find out more about you, if they want to connect, maybe talk to 893 00:44:58,573 --> 00:45:03,303 you about Shopify Plus and all that sort of stuff, what's the best way to do that? 894 00:45:04,773 --> 00:45:05,283 Nirav Sheth: Two ways. 895 00:45:05,463 --> 00:45:08,303 Come reach out to, to, to me directly on LinkedIn. 896 00:45:08,343 --> 00:45:12,513 You can just find me by my name, Nirav Sheth and the second way is 897 00:45:12,513 --> 00:45:14,133 just come visit our agency's website. 898 00:45:14,133 --> 00:45:18,073 It's just simple Anatta, A N A T T A.I O 899 00:45:19,563 --> 00:45:21,843 Matt Edmundson: anta and I have to, sorry, I should probably do it. 900 00:45:21,848 --> 00:45:22,593 The American Accent. 901 00:45:22,953 --> 00:45:27,603 Anatta . . I've just gonna butchered your company name. 902 00:45:28,263 --> 00:45:29,973 anta.io is what? 903 00:45:30,263 --> 00:45:30,533 Say 904 00:45:33,903 --> 00:45:37,433 and we should probably get an Aussies to come and do the the Aussie version Anatta. 905 00:45:37,923 --> 00:45:41,013 I'm very sorry to all the Australian listeners, my very poor Australian accent. 906 00:45:41,383 --> 00:45:47,943 But , there's some man, it's been, it is always a pleasure to talk to you and 907 00:45:47,943 --> 00:45:52,408 I always feel now whenever we chat, I learn something I take some notes down. 908 00:45:52,868 --> 00:45:54,358 And I've got some thoughts. 909 00:45:54,358 --> 00:45:57,028 I've got lots of notes taken down on my notebook here and 910 00:45:57,158 --> 00:45:58,718 stuff to talk to the team about. 911 00:45:59,028 --> 00:45:59,868 So thank you. 912 00:45:59,868 --> 00:46:01,338 Genuinely, really appreciate it. 913 00:46:01,343 --> 00:46:01,998 Learned a lot. 914 00:46:01,998 --> 00:46:03,318 I'm sure the listeners did too. 915 00:46:03,708 --> 00:46:07,438 You're a legend and I look forward to seeing you in Dallas 916 00:46:07,438 --> 00:46:08,848 if I don't see you before. 917 00:46:10,198 --> 00:46:11,578 Nirav Sheth: Thank you so much, Matt, for having me. 918 00:46:11,578 --> 00:46:12,988 I've really had a, I had a fun time. 919 00:46:13,488 --> 00:46:13,788 That's 920 00:46:13,788 --> 00:46:14,178 Matt Edmundson: awesome. 921 00:46:14,268 --> 00:46:14,928 Awesome. 922 00:46:15,378 --> 00:46:16,878 So there you have it. 923 00:46:16,878 --> 00:46:17,148 What? 924 00:46:17,883 --> 00:46:19,143 A great conversation. 925 00:46:19,153 --> 00:46:21,433 Huge thanks again to Nero for joining me today. 926 00:46:21,713 --> 00:46:26,388 Also, don't forget to check out eCommerce Cohort. 927 00:46:26,448 --> 00:46:30,688 Oh yes, the links on the eCommerce Podcast website, or just go to eCommerceCohort. 928 00:46:30,718 --> 00:46:35,168 com, come check out that membership group, we would love to see you in there, and 929 00:46:35,178 --> 00:46:38,968 be sure to follow the eCommerce Podcast wherever you get your podcast from, 930 00:46:39,228 --> 00:46:43,168 because we've got great, yeah, it's more great, to put my teeth back in, we've 931 00:46:43,168 --> 00:46:47,438 got yet more great conversations lined up, and I don't want you to miss any of 932 00:46:47,438 --> 00:46:53,553 them, and Before we go, if no one has told you yet today, dear listener, let 933 00:46:53,553 --> 00:46:57,633 me be the first person to tell you that you are awesome, yes you are, created 934 00:46:57,653 --> 00:47:01,853 awesome, it's just a burden you have to bear, Nirav has to bear it, I have to 935 00:47:01,863 --> 00:47:03,773 bear it, you've got to bear it as well. 936 00:47:04,213 --> 00:47:07,923 Now, the eCommerce Podcast is produced by Aurion Media. 937 00:47:07,923 --> 00:47:11,653 You can find our entire archive of episodes on your favorite podcast app. 938 00:47:11,653 --> 00:47:16,533 The team that makes this show possible includes the legendary Sadaf Beynon 939 00:47:16,533 --> 00:47:20,853 , Tanya Hutsuliak theme song was written by the fabulous Josh Edmundson. 940 00:47:21,183 --> 00:47:23,993 And as I mentioned, if you would like to read the transcript or show notes, 941 00:47:23,993 --> 00:47:25,173 head to the website eCommercePodcast. 942 00:47:25,813 --> 00:47:27,143 net, where everything's there. 943 00:47:27,203 --> 00:47:28,423 Just go, just do it. 944 00:47:28,483 --> 00:47:28,963 But yeah. 945 00:47:29,173 --> 00:47:30,683 Enjoy yourself while you're there as well. 946 00:47:31,033 --> 00:47:32,223 That's it from me. 947 00:47:32,483 --> 00:47:33,173 That's it from now. 948 00:47:33,173 --> 00:47:34,813 Thank you so much for joining us. 949 00:47:35,248 --> 00:47:37,228 Have a fantastic week wherever you are in the world. 950 00:47:37,258 --> 00:47:38,278 I'll see you next time. 951 00:47:38,568 --> 00:47:39,018 Bye for now.