You are listening to the we need to Talk About Oscar podcast and this is our conversation with Anu Valya, writer, director of V Strangers.

What's beautiful is forever.

It will be a reflection of my first movie.

Kirby at that stage of her life.

All of us at that stage of our lives that is like the snapshot of us.

It's been pretty much exactly one and a half years since the south by premiere of the film we Strangers.

First of all, just to sort of set the stage, what has changed since, would you say?

How do you mean?

From the film festival till finally putting it out?

Yeah, yeah, in a more of a general sense.

Yeah.

I mean, it's interesting.

You're.

You're traveling with this.

The movie is a fixed thing, but the way people relate to it obviously changes over time, which I really.

That's what I love about movies.

And so my relationship to the film even changes.

Like, you know, it's so funny every once in a while I'll still watch it and I have a different experience every single time because the movie is kind of is meant to.

To be like that, but it's, you know, I don't know what has changed.

It's just a longer process from going from film festival to touring a film around the world and then finally putting out in theaters and making it available.

It is a very long journey when you're working with.

With a small movie that is being distributed on.

We have an incredible indie distributor.

And so the experience is not truncated in any way.

It's a very long kind of drawn out experience.

And so I don't know if I have like a bow to tie on because I'm still in the middle of it.

But what I am enjoying is getting to bring it to different audiences and getting to hear from different people and sort of be a fly on the wall of certain discussions about the movie, which I really love, which is very.

Which is very much like the character who's a fly on the wall of other people's lives.

So, yeah, during even these one and a half years, the one constant, the one thing set in stone is the film itself.

And since even though we tend to become slaves to habits or make the same mistakes again and again, it's still highly unlikely we'd do something, whether that be for the better or for the worse.

Exactly the same way twice.

Would you do anything differently in the way you went about making your feature debut?

No, I think that every piece of art, I think you can ask any artist this, and I'm sure people have different experiences and different thoughts.

And, you know, I've heard directors be like, I would go back and edit this thing out.

And I think you get that with distance.

But no, at this time, this is like a piece of art that me and, you know, my cohorts made.

And every frame has been poured over and every beat has been thought out.

And so this, you know, this is the thing that you release into the world.

And then I think what happens over time with all art is artists go back and they go, oh, I would have changed that, whatever.

But that's the point is that any piece of art, film, painting, novel, whatever, especially with the art, that takes a long time, which is.

Which is a lot, you know, like, that how it does become like a reflection of, like, an amalgam of the people you were.

So, like, I think a musician must feel this when they put an album out, because it takes years to make an album and then you put it out and promote it.

And really, that piece of work is an emblem of, like, many years put together.

And then, like, you stick that in amber and then out it goes.

And so the point, I think it's.

It's part of our job as artists to be like, yeah, and this is me now.

I think, like, with we Strangers, it's a lot of people.

There's a lot of other people in the film, and I'm at the helm.

But, like, for example, Kirby is incredible as Ray, and you are watching her face, not mine, you know, in the.

In every frame of that movie.

And so it is kind of all of us.

And life has happened to both of us in that time, you know, and so, like, it is.

It is a snapshot of an experience that you put out.

And what's beautiful is forever.

It will be a reflection of my first movie.

Kirby, at that stage of her life, all of us at that stage of our lives, that is like the snapshot of us.

And so I don't have distance yet, but that's what I think I will feel 10 years from now.

And so that's.

That's cool.

It's cool to have the opportunity to create art in that way and to have this sort of reflection.

I feel that with my short films, you know, Absolutely so.

And as for different formats, after directing episodes on such TV shows as Never have I Ever, the After Party man on the inside, Shrinking and yeah, holy shit, the list just goes on.

Like, this list alone would point towards a seasoned TV director.

And now, going to your feature debut, what are some key skills you can refer to episodical.

Well, yeah, you know, television and film.

I think the crossover is that I'm directing, you know.

So you're still working with crew, working with actors, telling us a long form story.

But I consider them very different mediums and modes of storytelling.

And my role is also quite different.

Maybe not to the naked eye, but I can feel the difference of my role as a writer director on a feature versus as a guest director on a television show.

And so in a sense, like there were absolutely things I've taken from.

I mean, I actually started working on this movie before I ever became a television director.

So this has been kind of a constant in my life.

I think of artists I admire who like, you know, dabble in all different sort of mediums.

And so I've definitely.

My work has been, or my craft has really been informed by television directing.

I mean, it's such a gift to be able to work with so many different actors and learn from so many different incredible artists behind the camera.

Like, I've learned so much and alongside that, this is the first time I've really gotten to, to express myself fully.

And that is what making a film is.

It's like a full expression of myself.

And again, I keep talking about I and me and I really am like.

So I have to be so aware of how many other people have put their.

Like I think about, you know, you film a movie, then you're in the edit for like six months with.

With James, my editor.

And so much of him is in the movie also, you know, and Guillermo del Toro has this incredible quote where he talks about how it's a movie is a reflection of you.

But then you ask all these other people to come in and reflect themselves also in the film.

And so that's why I love it.

It's such a collaborative medium, obviously with the stories I'm interested in telling.

And so I guess there isn't like a shot in there I don't love.

But I say all that to be.

To say that I do feel though when I was making Least Strangers, I had to remind myself to kind of go back to my child's eye.

Like the child I was when I was creating art with like deep wonder and real risk.

Not even thinking about risk, just trying stuff because.

And I'm fat.

And then as an artist, when I was like a teenager, when I was making movies as a film student, I was trying all sorts of things and copying and like doing all things, you know, just what you do as a young artist.

And I think what's beautiful about that is, like, there's real discovery there because you're not thinking about failure or success, succeeding.

And so that I really had to, like, bring back to my work because I feel like in television, I, you know, you're serving a different master, and it isn't all about you.

You're thinking about what somebody else might want in an edit later.

Whereas here I can kind of commit to, you know what?

We're all.

We're just going to tell the story in one shot, you know, and so.

And if it works, beautiful.

If it doesn't work, I'll figure it out.

And so, yeah, I was both informed by my experience as a television director and also completely had to, like, actively forget.

Forget some stuff, or maybe forget is not the right word.

Move towards.

Back towards being a child, you know, an approaching wonder.

Interesting.

By the way, I also watched a couple of your shorts, like Drifters or Lucia before and after, and maybe not even these two, but correct me if I'm wrong here, but out of the shorts you've directed so far, there are ones where you wrote the screenplay and ones where you didn't.

And you just mentioned being the writer director on We Strangers.

Now, how important was it that your first feature film is made from your own script?

And I'm wondering, was this ever in question?

No.

I mean, I think as a filmmaker, that is my medium of expression.

That is how I express ideas and thoughts I have and themes I want to explore.

So they go so hand in hand.

I think all the shorts I've directed, I've written, except for one, but that was me playing and playing, taking another script and trying stuff.

But.

Yeah, no, I mean, like, I sit in a room or I move through the world and I have thoughts and ideas, and then over time, they become something.

And then me getting to direct a film is.

Is.

Is me working through ideas and expressing myself.

So I kind of have to write.

Yeah, I have to.

I will always write and direct.

I will absolutely direct other people's work because that's beautiful.

And I discover so much.

You can tell more stories than come in my.

My head originally, but I will never stop, like writing and directing also, because it's.

Yeah, it's.

The best.

It takes a long time, but it's a great way.

It's a great.

It's a beautiful, beautiful medium.

Yeah.

Another thing is, just as far as these two shorts I listed and V. Strangers Go, there is another through line, which is Sara Goldberg, as a storyteller, as a director, what brings you or what keeps bringing you back to a collaboration such as this with an actor.

Oh, I love working with her.

Sarah and I have been making shorts together since 2014 and we like grew up together.

We.

She's always been so game.

Yeah, she's been so game for all sorts of things I want to do with her.

And so I'm really grateful that she's always.

I'll come to her with an idea and she's willing to play and I just love her, I love watching her.

And obviously over time we've become dear, dear friends.

We started as just like artists who are into each other and wanted to play.

And then over time we, we've become so close.

And that's an interesting dynamic too when you become such good friends and you still want to push each other in this art form.

And that's a really beautiful, worthwhile relationship to have.

And then what was so wonderful is to expand that kind of circle.

Include other artists like Kirby, who stars in this movie, and like Maria Dizzia, who's also in the film, and Paul Addistine and Harry Dillon and Misha Reddy, like the whole group.

And Tina Lifford and Kara Young.

Oh my God, Kara.

So I'm like thinking about this cast and it's been so long since I was physically with them working, but it was such a great, really open group of people who gave so selflessly to this idea, to this film, to this kind of like, to what, what we were doing there.

And everyone was on the same page about the movie and about the tone of the film and that was like, what a gift.

And yeah, like, I think working with Sarah was the first time I was working with one artist consistently.

And that was really, like, I worked with great actors when I was like in film school and stuff like that, you know, and like, and some not so great actors and.

And working with her was the first time I was like, oh man, this is what it's all about.

Obviously, because really what it's all about, we put so much thought into everything else, but really it's just good actors in front of a lens.

And so that opened up my whole world as to like, what we're all doing here.

I think when I started working with her.

Beautiful.

The film itself is, at least to me from the get go to the very end of it is like a streak of psychedelic anxiety at attacks.

And beyond the story itself, I'm curious, what were the cinematic tools and techniques you used to induce that constant sense of tension and unease in the audience?

Well, it's interesting.

I'm really finding.

I'm working on finding ways to talk about this, to use my words to speak about something that to me is ineffable, which is why I enjoy this medium.

But I really enjoy layering.

And by that I mean you start with this.

Obviously we all went into the making of the movie with a very clear idea of what the tone was.

But you have to create that tone.

You really have to layer.

And by that it's like, you know, you have the actors, but even when you're.

It's what the actors are wearing, the color story, how you're framing them, all the stuff you do during production to create a feeling, to create a certain mise en scene that you're.

That has purpose because you're kind of trusting.

This is all supposed to create a feeling.

We've said we've wanted to feel like isolation when Ray is working in her work life and more of like an community type messiness when she's in her home life.

And like how do you do that?

And you know, we have these shots of these animals and that will help.

And you're kind of like trusting that that's going to work.

And then the post process, that's when the layering really takes shape where you have those raw materials that you were like so sure was going to work, you know.

And then on top of that with the, you know, James is such a creative and incredible editor and kind of supporting that, you know, the film has in addition to like the color that the movie relies on in the movie to create these feelings, as you said, a psychedelic panic attack.

Then it's like even like the fading to color and the, you know, when we're going into color correcting and we're like pushing the film and certain looks like it's all meant to.

And then when you have the sound and the music and the edit patterns, like all of this, there's one driving feeling that we're trying to create.

And obviously that that feeling changes throughout the movie.

That's the point.

But like the you.

You really are layering and you're trying to like pick up the other person's putting down.

So like with our music and our sound, they're working so in tandem with each other to work off of that and to work off of what Ray is giving us.

And even when we put the movie together, it's dry where it doesn't have any of that.

I mean we, we edit with temp tracks, of course, but it's like, even when we do like a dry cut we're still being pulled by Ray's subjective experience of the film, that our job is to constantly be an audience, be like, okay, where are we now?

What are we supposed to feel now?

And then sound music comes in to support that.

And so I don't mean to speak in Vagary.

I just like, it's.

You're.

It's such an intense process.

We have to be so present.

So, you know, I could speak about it intellectually after the fact, but to be totally frank with you, I'm just like in the edit and we're intensely present scene to scene, and then you become present, like, like scene lit.

Like you have like three scenes, three scenes to three scenes, do that work.

And then you keep going over and over and over until you look at this whole movie.

You're like, is this working?

And you do that like a million times.

And then when you come out of it, your brain is so, like, shaken and fried, like, to speak about it.

I find myself reducing the process to, like, bullet points.

And it's just not really accurate to, like, what the experience is like.

And then I have this problem where I forget.

So I found as I've been talking about the film, I'm like, man, I don't sound like I really did it because I'm like kind of speaking in Vagary.

But the truth is it's like I just kind of forget.

It's like, then I move on and like, the thing is the thing, and then I have to talk about it.

And then I'm like, man, I'm not really speaking accurately to like, how much thought everybody put into it.

So you're getting that in real time.

But it's like a relief when it's done.

You're like, oh, it's done now people are going to watch it and then you have to talk about it.

You're like, oh, well, that.

I just said like a few things I think aren't.

There's so much more going on.

Ah, I forgot to mention that that's okay, you know, and so it's very.

It's been very interesting.

This part of it is so fascinating to me.

I know.

I know very little about the speaking of the art because I've done that so little I've done the making of the art, but the speaking on it is new to me.

No, no, not at all.

That's an incredible answer.

I mean, this.

This is not an interrogation.

No, it's so fascinating on my side as well to just.

There is just something so interesting about filmmakers Trying to reflect on their.

On what they did because so.

So much of it is based on instinct.

Yeah.

And that's so different to talk about.

Yes.

And I'm just.

No.

And it's a joy to talk about it.

I just find.

I find I get frust with myself because I feel the limits of my language.

Maybe if I spoke two languages, I would have more of an expansive vocabulary with which to draw from.

I think about this.

My next movie lives in this space.

But like, I just wonder.

Yeah, I feel like.

And that's my own connection to being Indian and only speaking English and not my mother tongue.

But I.

Sometimes I feel like there's worlds of other language available to speak to what my feelings are.

And I can't.

I get very frustrated because I feel like only knowing English is so limiting for me to be able to express.

So maybe that's why I've become a filmmaker because I don't speak my mother tongue.

Like, I wonder if I spoke Punjabi or Hindi if I would be fine and be able to communicate totally fine and then I wouldn't have to be a filmmaker.

Listen, I, as someone who does speak multiple languages, like, whenever I say something, the right word will pop into my head, but not in the language I'm currently looking to do.

What languages do you speak?

English and Hungarian and German to an extent.

And that's something.

I was talking about this with my friend.

He's.

He's American, he speaks English and he's very, very smart.

He fell in love with a.

An Argentinian woman and so he moved.

And now he speaks Spanish.

He learned Spanish.

Right.

And he was.

We were just chatting about how he learned so much more about his partner when they moved back to her home area because he.

They only spoke English when they met in America.

And now obviously he's learning Spanish.

Not obviously, he is learning Spanish and speaks Spanish fluently, but in the way a second language and you've only lived there for like a couple years can be your home language where after, you know.

And so my parents speak many different languages, so we speak about this a lot.

And so we were talking about how he learned like a whole other side to his partner when she was around other Spanish speakers.

He was like, oh, I just didn't realize like, how opinionated how like, you know, and it's so interesting.

I was like, well, don't you feel for you how your personality has changed when you are around a bunch of Spanish speakers and you're speaking Spanish and your personality gets like deadened by like 15 20%.

Because you can't express everything in the way you would or in the humor you would.

And this is not.

And we were just talking about that.

And that's not a new thought, but it is for anyone who is not speaking their mother tongue.

It is a thought that is a.

That is in your.

That frustration is there.

I don't mean to speak for you.

Is that true?

Do you feel that?

No, it's true.

Yeah, it is.

But listen, what's interesting is that, like, once again, going only by myself.

It's one thing that I, of course, carry myself very differently.

Oh, of course.

In these situations.

But at the same time, most of the time, I feel more comfortable when I'm speaking English, which is fascinating, but because even though my English is decent, my vocabulary is way wider, of course, in my own tongue.

So, yes, my next movie is Lives in this World.

But yeah, I talk about this with my parents all the time because my mother grew up speaking Hindi.

My dad.

No, I'm sorry, my mother Punjabi, my dad, Hindi.

They now speak, you know, both Hindi, Punjabi, English.

They came to America, work here.

I mean, it's the classic, you know, immigrant.

They work here, learn English.

Now they start to dream in English, you know, that sort of.

But still, you know, I speak to them in English, so.

So but as they, you know, I just.

There's still.

There's word.

It's not even as simple as, like, oh, there's that word.

I don't know.

It's the being able to express an idea or have a sentiment.

But you just know this, like, you know it better than I do.

I'm sure there's feelings in.

In Hungarian language that just loses its poetry when you translate it, you know, in the same way that we translate American puns or American idioms.

Like, American idioms are so weird.

And.

Yeah, anyway, like, the idea.

I say this because, like, my dad would interpret Urdu poems, and Urdu poems are known for their beautiful poetry.

Like, they're just like the way my dad says, it's like the language itself, when you're hearing these poems, it's the most beautiful poems ever written.

Right?

And then he translates them and I'm like, yeah, they're nice.

I can appreciate them.

But the way they're hitting you on this other level, I just will never have access to.

And that's so interesting.

And so all of this huge tangent is to say I grow frustrated with how I express myself in the English language.

And it feels like there is a block sometimes with what's going on up here and what comes out of my mouth.

And I'm so grateful I have film because film, I think, expresses me more and better than I can when I'm just sitting here chatting.

So that's.

It's like a relief.

I wish it didn't take so long to make them.

But, hey, we are, of course, different.

Like, different stuff come natural to us.

And even stuff that would seem so banal or simple at first and to maybe use that as a segue.

The film centers, as we've talked about it, on Ray, a cleaner's everyday life.

And then you bring something extraordinary into the ordinary and there is this fake it till you make it theme running through Ray's journey.

And this will be a weak question, but as a filmmaker, what do you see as the difference between knowing what you are doing and doing what you know?

Oh, interesting.

Knowing what you are doing and doing what you know.

That's a beautiful question.

Can you share with me a little bit more on what do you mean?

How is that in relation to Ry?

Oh, I got to that little parallel.

I don't know how to put it in her finding her way in the found world of a medium and how she gets deeper and deeper into this situation.

And at some point, I was even wondering whether she herself believed it.

I see.

I see.

Okay, okay.

So, you know, again, people have different interpretations of the movie.

And I don't want to tell anybody how to think about the film.

I really enjoy people's interpretations because sometimes people say stuff and I'm like, I never.

Wow.

It's incredible.

I love that everything was there for you to put that together.

But, you know, I will say my intention with the movie is that she is not.

Ray is lying.

And Ray wants.

She feels that she starts working for these families.

She is feeling this sense of otherness and outsideness and being made to feel uncomfortable in this way that happens when you.

When you are in spaces that are not necessarily.

You're always kind of like a second thought or an afterthought or not even a thought.

And so she kind of makes this decision to.

And it's not even decision, it comes out of her.

Because I'm really interested in characters that make these, like, impulsive decisions without thinking.

And she lies and says she's a medium, you know, and so.

And then the person she works for believes her immediately.

And then, you know, in the next scene, the person she works for is like, you know, on an emotional ride that doesn't include Ry and is making her feel uncomfortable.

And then Ry kind of doubles down on this lie.

And that's like the idea of sort of being able to manipulate people, to give you power in spaces that would never normally give you power is a really.

Was a very fun, delicious thing for.

For me to explore and to allow Ray to do and for.

To allow for this person to like, just like, manipulate these people who would.

Who would never give her, like, the time of day.

I just really loved that idea.

So I don't think she believed she could speak to the dead.

But what I do think is true and she says is true in the movie is like, she never says something untrue.

She can read these people very well.

That is her superpower.

That is, you know, the movie is looking at this idea of, like, assimilating and code switching and the feeling of like, I can.

I can just see you.

You wear your masks very loosely.

You're not in touch with who you are.

Ray is actually.

So Ray reads them and can tell exactly.

Like when she says to Tracy, the other woman she works for, that she's like a black hole.

That's news to Tracy because she's moving through the world just kind of like very depressed and very, like, lashing out.

But what Ray sees deep inside that is like, you are a very sad, lonely person.

And that's just true.

She's not like, you don't need superpowers to see that Rhae is clear in a way that they are not clear.

So that's.

That's what my intention is, is that Rhea's not lying to herself.

But then, you know, the having to kind of spread yourself thin and always be a chameleon, that does weigh on you and that weighs on her throughout the film as she, you know, then all of the responsibilities that she has are piling up.

That weighs on her.

So I think that's sort of the struggle that she has throughout the film.

And last but not least, we are talking on a Monday, by the way, and to my knowledge, just this past Saturday, your film v Strangers screened at the DGA theater.

Not in a sense that you just go ahead and shout it into the world, but maybe just as an inkling.

Is this the point where you can say at least to yourself, that you made it?

I don't know.

I think, you know, I think I've always thought I just really want to make movies.

And there's that.

Those childhood goals you have as a young person, or you just.

I think it's less.

My head is like, how I've made it.

It's more of my you go, you want to be aware and give thanks when you've wanted to have something or do something.

And then you get to do it just to be like, wow, life is.

So how grateful am I?

How lucky did I get?

How much gratitude do I have to the people who have made it so that I can have this little dream of, you know, any director.

It's like, I get to play at the Director's Guild.

This is the theater I like my senior thesis movie at.

And I get to come back with my first feature.

Wow, what a thing that, you know, you set your mind to something as a child, and then you get to get that.

And that is because of a lot of luck, a lot of goodwill, a lot of, like, other people kind of showing up for you.

And then, of course, my next thought is, you know, now it's your responsibility to do that for someone else and to give that to other people and to be able to help others who have those dreams.

But, yeah, I don't know if I think that way.

I think it's more like, man, that's so beautiful.

Like, take the time to be grateful.

Or I try to take the time to be grateful when I get to get a thing I've wanted.

Because then it allows you to go.

Because that's it.

That's the only reward.

And then you move on.

You keep going, and you go after the next thing and you try to make the next.

It's it that the reward is that small, but it's.

So if I can take the time and really be like, wow, that's really amazing, then I can really feel good.

And then you move on, and then you keep going.

And so I was just very, very.

It was very special.

Really cool.

Very fun.

Yeah.

To be on that stage and to play in that theater.

That's what Johanna here.

Anu, this was such a treat.

Thank you.

And thank you for taking the time to speak with me.

Absolutely.

It was such a pleasure.

I'm so.

And now here's a moment where I'm very, very grateful to get to talk about this film.

To also get to talk about, you know, other things with you all as well.

That's.

That's the gift that.

Getting to make a piece of art and travel around the world.

You get to meet people and connect with people.

And it's.

So.

That's kind of like the payment.

That's the joy.

And it doesn't get better than that.

So I'm very, very grateful.

Couldn't have studied any better.

Renda, let's do it when the next one comes around, please.

That would be my absolute joy.