Copy of PART 2 TO EDIT

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[00:00:00] Ross: Hi there. and a very warm welcome to Season five, episode 36 of People Soup. It's Ross Macintosh here,

[00:00:06] And then there's some passengers that are just downright rude. they're saying to me, Ross, have you even got a license for this vehicle, because you're a really shit driver. Everyone else is better than you on this route. And we can see you're thinking of taking a new avenue too, well really? Are you sure? Because we know what's going to happen, there's going to be a series of unfortunate events ending in utter, utter catastrophe.

[00:00:29] Peace Supers. In this episode, the tables are still turned, and I'm being interviewed by Producer Emma. I recount some memorable moments from ACT training across the years.

[00:00:41] I share part of the training course from session one where I introduce the metaphor of the passengers on the bus and then I give my top tips for ways we can introduce ACT to organisations.

[00:00:51] And we finish with a surprise question from Emma that carries a singing advisory warning.

[00:01:05] Now, for those of you who are new to People Soup, we're an award-winning podcast where we share evidence-based behavioral science in a way that's practical, accessible, and fun.

[00:01:15] Our mission is to unlock workplace potential with expert perspectives from contextual behavioral science.

[00:01:21] Let's go over to the news desk. If You'd like to find out more about the Act in the Workplace Train the Trainer program I developed with Dr. Paul Flaxman in partnership with Contextual Consulting, you'll find a link in the show notes. trained hundreds of adults using this approach and also hundreds of trainers too.

[00:01:37] And with gratitude to Joe Oliver at Contextual Consulting, there's a discount code for the course. It gives you a 20 percent discount on the Act in the Workplace Train the Trainer program.

[00:01:47] And the code is PSOOP20. the letter P. Followed by the word soup, followed by the numbers 2 and 0. Pea Soup 20. if that's not enough, there's also the chance to win a free [00:02:00] place on the Act in the Workplace program. All you'll need to do is fill in the form via the link in the show notes for this episode. The competition closes at midnight Central European Time on the 20th of December, 2023.

[00:02:12] And the winner will be chosen at random and notified on the 21st of December.

[00:02:17] for now a brew on and have a listen to part two of our table turning episode where I'm in the hot seat and Emma is asking the questions. But yeah, anecdotes, Emma, thanks for asking.

[00:02:35] I think I'll draw upon three that have really stood out for me. And one is working with nurses and healthcare professionals in the NHS. for some of them, we conducted interviews afterwards and an overriding theme was that nurses felt they had permission to look after themselves.

[00:02:51] That was one of the key outcomes of the training for them. They felt that it wasn't weak or it wasn't selfish if they were looking after themselves.

[00:02:59] And was super profound for me. if one person goes away with that, then that is amazing.

[00:03:08] Producer Emma: Wow. Very impactful stuff there, Ross.

[00:03:10] Ross: And a couple more, if I may, one was at a school, with a team of teachers. And after the first session of a four session program, one guy, he identified the value of adventure. And we encouraged people to go and practice between sessions and his challenge was to think how he could then express it in his behavior, So he thought about it and he thought he wanted to relive some boyhood memories and go camping on the moors near where he lived. And his mind was telling him, Ah, my girlfriend's not going to like this. And he said, Oh, my son won't be interested. But during that week he actually shared it with his girlfriend.

[00:03:44] Who went, Oh, that's amazing. Why don't you do that? That would be great. And his son said, Oh, can I come with And he was like blown away. And do you know what he did in that first week? He put some of his belongings up for sale on eBay. So he could then make money. to buy some camping [00:04:00] equipment.

[00:04:00] Producer Emma: It's just a great example of how your thoughts and the mind can limit you some times when actually what's going on in other people's heads could be the complete opposite to what you're anticipating.

[00:04:09] Ross: Yeah, and there's, there's one other that always sticks in my mind too. A lovely lady She'd chosen the value after session one of patience, and she had three kids, and she was conscious that she wasn't always as patient as she would like to be with them.

[00:04:22] And during that first week between sessions, she, she described at a moment when she was about to kick off with her kids. She was about to go into one, as she described it. And she just paused in that moment when she was about to do it. And she said, Hmm, how could I express this value of patience? And she did something completely different, rather than kicking off and yelling.

[00:04:45] And that's just catching the mind in flight, realizing the impact that what goes on inside our heads can have on our behavior. that was so powerful for her and very powerful for me. And her kids were like, huh, mom, what's just happened? Because they were just ready for the yelling and it didn't happen.

[00:05:02] So the more we can experiment with making values a more prominent guide to our action. The more we can play and see what's getting in the way and really notice how we're showing up.

[00:05:14] Producer Emma: Yeah. And it's almost about having that awareness between the mind and your actions and what's going on in the world around you. I can imagine that's not an easy thing to do you know, stopping before acting and thinking about your thoughts. Thank you, Ross.

[00:05:28] Ross: and what we're doing in the training is, well, the core skill is that noticing. We're trying to get people to become uber noticers so they can notice when they're about to do something that maybe isn't aligned with how they want to be.

[00:05:41] Producer Emma: And on that note, what will the training be like

[00:05:44] .

[00:05:44] Ross: So the training protocol is the foundation of the training. And what I'll do in the Train the Trainer program is I'll deliver the core elements of it. Then I'll pause and take folks behind the curtain, if you like. To explain why we deliver it in that way.[00:06:00] How we're always trying to role model the skills from ACT in the way we facilitate. And... Share some of the questions or queries that might arise from the audience.

[00:06:08] Because I've done this with hundreds and hundreds of people. And I'll also be joined during at least one session by my partner in ACT, Dr. Paul Flaxman. We'll focus a bit more on the evidence base for ACT in the workplace.

[00:06:19] Producer Emma: And I wonder, could you give us a part of the training as a taster?

[00:06:23] Ross: Yeah, that's a great idea Emma, thank you. And I think what I'll do is an excerpt from session one of the training protocol and it's where we introduce that skill of open. to the inner world. And we do that using a metaphor called the passengers on the bus. So what I'm going to do is just have a little go at introducing that to folks.

[00:06:45] So. Peasoopers, imagine, if you will, that you are the driver of your bus of life. You're sitting in the driving seat, and hopefully you can take that bus, you can direct it in a way that has meaning for you.

[00:06:57] You're driving it in a direction that has purpose and significance, and a direction that matters to you. Sometimes you might be thinking of doing something new in your life, taking a new avenue. And, the moment we start moving forward, driving our bus, There's lots of chatter starts up behind us. And that chatter, in this metaphor, we call that chatter our passengers.

[00:07:19] The passengers on our bus. And some of those passengers are just fairly mundane. They're saying to me, Oh, Ross, don't forget you need to get milk the next time you go to the supermarket. And, Oh look, we've just passed the church. So they're just fairly random, neutral comments from those passengers. And all of these passengers are clever, Emma, because they know what we're thinking.

[00:07:40] And some other passengers are saying to me, Hey Ross, I can see you're thinking of doing this new thing in life. You're going to take a slight diversion and go somewhere new. And we think that's going to be great. We think you've got all the skills and the strengths you need and we think it'll end up in a really good place.

[00:07:54] So, mirror, signal, manoeuvre, don't hesitate. Go for it. We're right [00:08:00] behind you, supporting you. Other passengers are saying, Ah, Ross, the seats on your bus are really uncomfortable. I really don't like them. And we too can see you're thinking of doing this new thing in life. Well, really? Because we know that what you really like deep down is going on that circular route round and round the city.

[00:08:17] We know that's where you feel safe and comfortable. So you might see other people taking new avenues and doing new things, but that's not for you, man. Get real. You know that where you feel really comfortable is just staying on that safe and familiar route going round and round. And then there's some passengers that are just downright rude. they're saying to me, Ross, have you even got a license for this vehicle, because you're a really shit driver. Everyone else is better than you on this route. And we can see you're thinking of taking a new avenue too, well really? Are you sure? Because we know what's going to happen, there's going to be a series of unfortunate events ending in utter, utter catastrophe.

[00:08:54] And that's the metaphor, Emma. That's the metaphor that for me, represents so beautifully the human condition and represents my experience of having those passengers piping up inside of my head.

[00:09:07] and typically as humans we'll pay far more attention to those ones that are unhelpful. They can sometimes drown out the ones that are more helpful. And we use this metaphor throughout the training. in session four, we even end up acting it out.

[00:09:20] We role play it with the participants, which is great fun, and also brings everything together.

[00:09:26] Producer Emma: Great Ross, lovely analogy there. And am I right in saying it's about raising the voices of those positive passengers on the bus a bit more. .

[00:09:34] Ross: you could say that, and sometimes on the training people say to me, I want to throw the passengers off.

[00:09:40] And what we know is that's not feasible. We know from the research that that might be effective in the short term. But actually what they tend to do is nip down the road, put a disguise on and get back on the bus and have renewed vigour.

[00:09:54] So it's partly about can we pay a bit more attention to those more positive passengers. But [00:10:00] it's partly related to all the passengers on the bus. And knowing that they're part of us, it's part of our experience. And making room for them.

[00:10:07] But if we can make room for them and not get tangled up with them, we can then direct our attention on where we want to move. Even Mmm. Mmm.

[00:10:18] Producer Emma: And one word that kind of comes to mind when you're explaining that as tolerance. So tolerating those or Having an acceptance for those thoughts that are a part of the human condition.

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[00:10:29] Ross: and I'd even add another word in the mix there. I like tolerance. Honestly, I'm not overly keen on acceptance because quite often people think that acceptance is a sort of passive acceptance. I've just got to accept this for what it is. But the word I'd use is willingness. Am I willing to experience that chatter from my passengers, even the unhelpful stuff, Because I'm moving towards something that matters. That word willingness really encapsulates that for me.

[00:10:56] Producer Emma: Right. And I suppose if you're aligned to your purpose, your meaning and your body's in life or something, you hold very strong That willingness will be something that might be a bit easier to do.

[00:11:08] Thank you so much for that brilliant analogy there. Ask those passengers on the bus, which I'm sure some B supers will be looking forward to exploring.

[00:11:16] Ross: we interrupt this broadcast with an important public service announcement. If you're interested in ACT, I'd heartily recommend that you check out the whole range of training at Contextual Consulting. There's both live and on demand training to browse. I've done loads of top quality courses at Contextual Consulting, including a Russ Harris Boot Camp, a course with Kirk Strozzel and Patty Robinson, and another with Ray Owen, and another with friend of the show Richard Bannett. All of these courses have helped me to become more immersed in act and in turn, enhanced my effectiveness in the workplace.

[00:11:51] you want to grab a course other than mine, there's another discount code for 15 percent off, and that code is PSOUP15. [00:12:00] That's the letter P, followed by the word soup, followed by the numbers 1 and 5.

[00:12:04] PSOUP15. now we'll go back to the chat.

[00:12:08] Producer Emma: And so would you have any top tips for organizations engaging in this program?

[00:12:13] Ross: I think a couple spring to mind. The first one is get to know the context. ACT is part of an approach called Contextual Behavioral Science. And Get to know as much about the context of the organization as you can, what they're looking for you to deliver, get to know as much as you can about the context of the organization and what they're trying to achieve.

[00:12:33] My second top tip would be use the skills on yourself. Use the skills from ACT to plan how you're going to engage an organization in a compelling way with the skills and the approach. And in the training we use lens or a framework called the Matrix which you'll find out more about on the training.

[00:12:51] Producer Emma: It's so nice to hear you talk about the training program with as much passion and energy as you do. But one question I would have is what do you enjoy most about delivering this program?

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[00:13:01] Ross: Oh my goodness.

[00:13:02] I think sincerely it's the people. It's the reflection I get back from people, the questions, the curiosity I get from them, sometimes being privileged to witness aha moments, sometimes getting examples like some of the ones I've shared today. That is it. And knowing that.

[00:13:16] I'm operating from a really strong evidence base That can help unlock the potential of adults in the workplace.

[00:13:23] Producer Emma: That's so impactful. Ross, thank you so much. And I know I personally have learned so much from this one episode alone and I'm sure RPC breeze will find it really interesting. Now one thing before we finish up that you might not be expecting, but I'm sure our regular PCB listeners would be really interested in as it's something you ask a lot of our guests, Ross. Is if you had a song choice that could have nines here, arrival in the room. It could be from this week, this month, this quarter, or in relation to this new training program, in fact, what would it be?

[00:13:58] Ross: Emma, you absolute [00:14:00] legend. Thank you so much for asking this question. And this is a complete surprise, P Supers. And Emma was kind enough to give me a brief pause to reflect. But the song I'm going to choose, Emma, and I think it, it represents Flexman,

[00:14:21] Used in a lecture once when he was talking about how we interact and present ourselves to organisations. And the song is, It ain't what you do, it's the way that you do it. And the version I would choose is by Funboy3 featuring Bananarama because For me, it's a very joyful and uplifting version, which really captures the essence of the 80s.

[00:14:44] And I'm going to have a go, Emma. I think I owe it to the P Supers. I might even, I might even put it on in the background, so I've got a little beat.

[00:14:52] Producer Emma: I love it.

[00:14:53] Ross: Oh, you can hear the intro. Ahem. I don't know when I come in. Hang on.

[00:15:02] Oh! A long intro. I was all geared up. Hang on.

[00:15:12] It ain't what you do, it's the way that you do it. It ain't what you do, it's... It ain't what you do, it's the way that you do it. And that's what gets results. It ain't what you do, it's the way that you do it. What you do, it's the, it ain't what you do, it's the time that you do it, and that's what gets results.

[00:15:33] You can try hard, don't mean nothing, take it easy, let your bud ring. Uh, I think that's quite enough, Emma, but

[00:15:48] Producer Emma: Brilliant. And I am definitely adding an applause sound effect after that one thank you for that, Ross. I'm delighted I asked that now.

[00:15:55] Ross: I think it was kind of possibly more beautiful because I didn't know all the words.

[00:15:59] Producer Emma: [00:16:00] know, as part of the training program you might have to perform a short interlude of that piece.

[00:16:06] Ross: No, steady on. But um, actually it raises a good point Emma, maybe just to finish on, And it takes me back to our interview with Jill Stoddard, who chose the song, This Girl Is On Fire, and she said she doesn't always feel. Like she's on fire, but if she acts like that, then that will infuse her whole way of presenting herself. So if I was willing to be embarrassed and sing that song, the wider purpose of conveying a message, I think that's really what act is all about at its heart.

[00:16:34] Producer Emma: Stepping out of that comfort zone. Brilliant, Ross. Thank you so much. It's been a privilege to get to hear a bit more about Act and your story, Ross. So thank you so much.

[00:16:46] Ross: Well, thank you for being such a brilliant interviewer, Emma. I can see opportunities on the horizon, very near, for our continued evolution as people see it. So thank you so much.

[00:16:58] Producer Emma: Sounds great.

[00:16:59] Ross: That's it, PSOUPers. Part 2 of my chat with Emma in the bag. I'd like to thank Emma for her curiosity and cracking interview style. Don't forget those discount codes. You've got P soup 20 for my course.

[00:17:16] That's act in the workplace. Train the trainer. there's also a prize draw for a free place on that trading. You've gotta be in it to win it folks. other courses from Contextual Consulting, the discount code is PSOOP15. We'd love your help in reaching more people with this behavioural science.

[00:17:33] So,

[00:17:34] you enjoyed this episode of the podcast, we'd love you to do three things.

[00:17:38] Ross: Number one, share it with one other person. Number two, subscribe and give us a five star review, whatever platform you're on.

[00:17:45] Number three, share the heck out of it on the socials. This would all help us reach more people and make some noise with stuff that could be useful. We'd love to hear from you and you can get in touch at peoplesoup. pod at gmail. com. On X, formerly [00:18:00] known as Twitter, we are at peoplesouppod. on the gram, known as insta, We are at People. Soup and on Facebook we are at PeopleSoupPod. You can also drop us a review or get in touch using a voice note on WhatsApp.

[00:18:13] Thanks to Andy Glenn for his spoon magic and Alex Engelberg for his vocals. Most of all, dear listener, thanks to you. Look after yourselves, peace supers, and bye for now.

[00:18:23] You absolute devil. I was just thinking, oh, maybe I should have done that. And, That's, that's genius, Emma. I'm so bloody delighted the way, the way you're bringing this in.

[00:18:40] Producer Emma: Had to be unexpected.

[00:18:42] Ross: Yes, yeah, you've really caught me. Uh,

[00:18:46] I'm gonna have a look at my list of 80s shit. Hang on a sec.