Jay Ray: On this episode of Queue Points, we welcome Idris Goodwin.
Idris Goodwin is an award-winning creative driven by a passion
for impactful storytelling.
Currently serving as Artistic Director of Seattle Children’s Theater,
Idris writes, directs, programs and /or produces relevant content
for intergenerational audiences.
Recognized as a culture bearer who celebrates community values and cultivates
histories with care, Goodwin’s impact spans generation and artistic mediums,
with well over 60 original plays produced coast to coast, from Oregon Shakespeare
Festival to The John F Kennedy Center.
Several of these works are published, as are his forays into poetry and
prose, including the collections Can I Kick It and These Are The Breaks.
Harper Collins Clarion released his 1st picture book, Your
House is Not Just A House.
A performer and recording artist, he’s created original video content for
and/or appeared on Wondery, Nickelodeon, HBO Def Poetry, Sesame Street, NPR,
BBC Radio, and the Discovery Channel.
Before stepping into his current tenure with SCT, Idris served as Artistic
Director of StageOne Family Theatre in Louisville, as well as Executive
Director of The Colorado Springs Fine Arts Center at Colorado College,
where he also taught as a professor in The Department of Theater and Dance.
As Board President of Theater For Young Audiences/USA, he is a champion
for theater makers and institutions with a stated focus on cultivating
the arts patrons of tomorrow.
King Of The Neuro Verse, his 1st novel, will be released in 2025.
We spoke to Idris in December 2024 as he was preparing for his newest play,
Doctor De Soto, to hit the stage.
Doctor De Soto opens at the Alliance Theater in Atlanta on January 18th
and runs through March 2, 2025.
DJ Sir Daniel: Jay Ray, guess what?
Jay Ray: What's up?
DJ Sir Daniel: Today's queued up guest is no stranger to Queue Points, right?
As a matter of fact.
I got to experience his magic when I attended a magical production of
his stage play, The Boy Who Kissed the Sky, here at the Alliance
Theater in Atlanta about a year ago.
And Jay Ray, we also had the pleasure of interviewing the co
musical directors, IV, last year.
And now, bringing it all back, we have the honor of speaking with
the author, Playwright and MC.
We're going to find out about that.
I'm talking about none other than today's guest Idris Goodwin.
Welcome Idris.
Idris Goodwin: What's going on, y'all?
DJ Sir Daniel: How are you feeling today?
I just want to do a quick checking with you.
How are you feeling?
And, um, you know, you're in the moment, you're in the moment right now,
getting to play this, this new stage play that we're about to talk about.
You're in the midst of that, but how are you doing in this, at this moment?
Idris Goodwin: Oh, you know, it's always good to be in Atlanta.
Um, I was, uh, you know, my, my, I grew up coming here a lot.
I got hella family out here.
Uh, I was actually just back here a couple of weeks ago.
Cause great.
Granny turned a hundred years old.
DJ Sir Daniel: Oh,
Jay Ray: granny.
Idris Goodwin: yeah, so I'm very comfortable here.
I'm very familiar here.
Working at Alliance is always a treat.
Uh, they treat me well here.
I've had a few shows here before, like the Boy who Kissed this guy that you
mentioned, as well as, uh, adaptation of Jason Reynolds ghosts as well.
I've been here a lot of times for conferences and other things.
So, uh, I'm doing quite well, man, and we're in the room where it happens.
We're, we're, we're rehearsing starting to kick the tires.
I've been revisions, so yeah, just, uh, and a and, but a great, great, um,
to take a break to get to talk to you brothers about, uh, about this piece.
Jay Ray: Yeah.
DJ Sir Daniel: it.
I just also want to check in quickly with you.
You know, um, we can't get around it.
Um, we recently lost, um, who is, well, we had now have a new ancestor, right?
And Nikki Giovanni.
And as a playwright and author, you know, what impact has her work had on you?
Yes, there
Idris Goodwin: Ego Trip and, or Ego Trip.
Um,
Jay Ray: Yeah.
Idris Goodwin: um, and you know, I am in that lineage of
griots, black arts movement.
um, I had the pleasure to actually, um, curate an event.
that featured Nikki Giovanni back in the day at the Hothouse in Chicago.
Um, and it was an amazing experience.
I'll never forget it.
I remember my mom and one of her homegirls drove all the way up
from Detroit to see, to see it.
Cause, uh, you know, Nikki was, was, was always on our shelves growing up.
So Nikki Giovanni, Maya Angelou, like, you know, we go down the line.
So yeah, yeah.
Rest in, rest in poetry, um, Queen Nikki.
Yeah,
Jay Ray: Um, once again, thank you so much for the work that you do.
I am curious, before we jump into this upcoming work for Doctor De
Soto, um, can we talk a bit about the importance of music for children?
Because that's like a consistent thing that we see in your work,
particularly your work for kids.
Can you talk about the importance of that?
Idris Goodwin: Oh, well, I mean, look, first and foremost, the first
kind of writing I did as a, as a young Thundercat was, was lyrics.
Um, I drew comics and I started writing lyrics to rap songs,
you know, rap songs and whatnot.
And that, that.
always spoke to me.
I found out later that it's become a lifelong struggle
with neurodivergency, ADHD.
And, you know, and it answered a lot of questions for me about challenges I had in
school growing up with the written word.
And, um, And some of this is the subject.
I have a, I have a, uh, a novel coming in, in, uh, 2025, uh, called king of the
neural verse, which is it's fictional, but it's very much based on, uh, that,
that challenge in that time of my life.
Um, but anyway, uh, so the, but the music always
gave me clarity, uh, you know, very intuitively, um, I was, I was wired in and
there was always music in the household.
Um, and the music, especially like, you know, pre internet, know, music, more
particularly specifically black music, had, it carried so much history in it,
you know, it carried, So much in it.
It was so jam packed, much like our food.
You know, it is, it has got layers and levels and richness to it because
it's doing, it's doing all this work.
It's, it's carrying the history.
It's the word on the street.
It's the, you know, it's all of it.
Right.
And it also is trying to make you move and feel good too.
Right.
So it is ethos, pathos, and You know, all of that, all of those is,
Jay Ray: Yeah.
Idris Goodwin: you know, in one.
So for me, um, I think for the performing arts, for theater, you know, it's
storytelling, but it's live storytelling and, you know, and, or like, you know,
it's, it's in the tradition of the black church, like it's the living word.
And there is a, there's, it's a dialogue, like
Jay Ray: Mm hmm.
Idris Goodwin: live performance is a dialogue.
Um, you know, I just watched the, um, the Jamie Foxx special last night.
Jay Ray: Mm hmm.
Idris Goodwin: Um, which, which was shot here in Atlanta, uh, on, on the stage
where Boy Who Gets the Sky, uh, was
Jay Ray: Yes.
Idris Goodwin: So I was like, oh snap.
I can say I've shared the stage with Jamie
Jay Ray: Yeah!
Idris Goodwin: Um, yeah.
DJ Sir Daniel: you go.
Idris Goodwin: I'm lying.
Tell me I'm lying.
DJ Sir Daniel: Heh heh heh heh.
Idris Goodwin: I love about his performance, is that to me, it
just reminds, it was such a, it was, it was like a revivalist.
Like he's doing testimony,
Jay Ray: Mm hmm.
Idris Goodwin: songs, he's telling jokes.
The audience is, is a scene partner with
DJ Sir Daniel: Yes.
Idris Goodwin: And to me, like that is a distinctly, you know, you
know, I think that is a very African thing, but it's definitely a, a,
a black American, uh, aesthetic.
Jay Ray: Yes.
Idris Goodwin: how we get down.
And so for me, know, my work as a playwright, it was like, cool, I'm
going to follow the fundamental tenets of Western drama, right?
Of narrative.
But within there, there is room for me to, uh, sprinkle in or
bring in any, any, any, any of the things I got in my, in my toolbox.
Right.
And so, because I started with lyrics, uh, in the rap tradition,
which is, which is on the branch of the blues, which is, you know, make
it, make it plain as the pastor says,
Jay Ray: Mm hmm.
Idris Goodwin: make it plain, make it memorable, make it funky.
And so that is, uh, to me, the role of, I mean, listen, I
approach plays or really any of the living word, the time based word.
it, um, like it's all music.
It's all falling.
It's all rhythmic.
It's all, it's falling.
Like it's not behind you.
It's not behind you.
It's not in front of you.
It's just right here in front of you.
It's just now
DJ Sir Daniel: Mmm.
Idris Goodwin: and it's and if it's on the one, um, you know, it's
gonna make the body react and do
Jay Ray: Mm hmm.
Amazing.
Idris Goodwin: So, so to me, I always jokingly say I don't write musicals.
I just write musical plays.
Um, uh, but it really is like that, but that's just how I exist in the world, man.
Like I just, It's always, the music is always there.
I'm always listening to it.
I'm always, you know, it's always, it's how I approach a lot of things.
DJ Sir Daniel: So tell us about Doctor De Soto.
Opening January 18th, uh, here at the Hertz stage at the Alliance Theater.
And, um, what can, I know this is a kid's play, like for starting for six
and up, but what can adults learn from this production of Doctor De Soto?
Idris Goodwin: That's a great question.
Um, so Doctor De Soto is a book I loved when I was a kid.
It's picture books by William Stieg.
William Stieg's biggest claim to fame is he wrote the book that
the Shrek series is based on.
So, um, but he's got a whole body of picture books.
Um, and he is, he is, um, I, I consider him, he's like, um,
of more of a contemporary, like Grimm's brothers kind of vibe
DJ Sir Daniel: Okay.
Idris Goodwin: he, he was never, he's not afraid to, put his heroes in real danger
DJ Sir Daniel: Yeah.
Idris Goodwin: and peril.
And there's always like, You know, they're not, they're not like super,
you know, create, you know, out there like that, but like he would, he
wouldn't, you know, you'll, you'll see, you'll just see what I, what I mean.
So, um, but he reminds me also of like Aesop as well.
So like, you know, animals like predators and prey interacting, that kind of thing.
So Doctor De Soto, Is about, um, uh, a husband and wife team, they run a
dental office and because they're mice, they can climb inside the mouths of
larger animals and do a really good job, intricate job cleaning their teeth.
And they're the best.
Everybody loves the, the sodos, but but they have a sign that says, no,
no, we will not treat any carnivores.
DJ Sir Daniel: Hmm.
Idris Goodwin: like if you, if you out in the streets, gobbling up smaller mammals.
DJ Sir Daniel: Right.
Idris Goodwin: keep pushing.
keep, take it down the road.
one day a fox shows up,
DJ Sir Daniel: Hmm.
Idris Goodwin: you know, in, in just pain, just, just whimpering,
just, just, just a mess.
And they take sympathy on this fox and they say, come on up here.
Come on, come on.
And they, and they, and they put, they, they, um, they say
you got a rotten by cuspid.
And so, um, they put the fox under and when the fox is under.
It's like muttering to us.
It's like, yeah, they're going to be delicious.
Right.
DJ Sir Daniel: Hmm.
Idris Goodwin: De Soto and his wife are in a conundrum now.
Right.
Because, you know, they, they have this model when they, when
they start a job, they finish it.
they pull, they pull the tooth out, but then the fox got to come
back to get the new tooth put in.
And, and so they're like, what are we going to do?
Like on one hand, You know, he was, he was under, we may
not have heard what we heard.
Seems like a nice enough Fox, certainly well dressed, you know.
So what is we to do, right?
Do we, do we turn this Fox away in the middle of this job?
just because of our fear, do we figure out how we, how we can
have it both ways, so to speak.
So, so, you know, it's a very simple, lovely, story in, in its,
in its, in its, uh, printed form.
And I think what I responded to as a kid was just like the simplicity of that,
like, you know, it's like the small and the large, but you know, to now get very
egghead y about it, um, What it, what it's ultimately about is something that
is very real that we as adults deal with all the time too, which is like these
tough calls when our, when our values of collide with, you know, our needs
to survive or, or our fears really, if we're keeping it a buck, right.
It's like, you know, what is, what is good, you know, good
sense versus, um, what's right.
You know,
Jay Ray: Mhm.
Mhm.
Idris Goodwin: I think that is 100 percent what I think the role of theater
is in the lives of, of young people is to, is to show them choices and
to show them difficult choices that different kinds of characters approach
good, bad, or otherwise, you know, and that's, those are the tools for life.
It's like, you will have a choice.
You will need to make a choice.
And whether you make the right one or the wrong one.
You then have to deal with the constant, you know, the aftermath of those
choices, good, bad or otherwise, right?
So you're constantly making choices.
Um, you know, on another level, though, what, what was really appealing to
me as a theater maker and a theater person was, you know, In the book,
you see this, they play with scale.
And so in the opening pages of the book, it's like everybody was rocking
with the de Soto's, like other mice and gophers and other small animals, mammals.
But, but, but like the hooved community was rocking with them big time.
So like, there's a image of, Doctor De Soto's wife, like cranking him
up on this pulley to like be in the, in the inside of this mule's
Jay Ray: Yeah.
Idris Goodwin: like as big old mule, this big old cow with the mouth open.
And I'm like, wow.
Like, how do you do that on set?
How do you do scale on stage?
Right.
Like, how do you play with, know, these, these perceptions of big
and small, uh, on, on, on stage.
So that is like the Genesis.
And so, you know, I, I like to think of myself as, as
writing for multi generational
Jay Ray: Mhm.
Idris Goodwin: kids don't.
don't come to the theater by themselves
DJ Sir Daniel: Well, yeah.
Jay Ray: Right.
Idris Goodwin: time too.
Cause the fundamentals of good storytelling are age.
That doesn't matter what age you are, you know, Kung Fu Panda four was fire.
You know, my wife and I used to go on dates and see Pixar movies
before we even had children.
So like good stories are good stories.
And it does, it really doesn't matter.
And it's a very human thing to like identify with another human being.
So what we, what what we're making right now and shout out Director, uh,
Mark Valdez and Chris Moses, um, and Tanasha for, um, know, our wonderful
artistic directors of the Lions.
All the support.
We got a huge team.
It's gonna be a really cool feast of cool costumes.
puppetry, shadow puppetry, you know, lights inside, you know, and we're
going to be in a relatively, the Hertz stage is a very intimate space.
And so we're going to play with this, this, this piece about creatures big
and small and a really tight space.
So it's really, about theatricality, which is the other thing I love.
I love showing people, especially in this increasingly digital world that,
you know, you can, you can You can do slights of hands and tricks and
play, you can do it in very simple ways, you know, shadow puppetry.
I love because it's just light.
It's just
Jay Ray: Yeah.
Yeah.
Idris Goodwin: it's yin and yang, you know what I'm saying?
It's just light and darkness and just playing with that.
So anyway, um, so yeah, it's got something for everybody.
fun.
It's silly.
There's a lot of like rhyming and music in it inevitably just cause why not?
Um, and, uh, the one change I did from the book is I added, and not the one
change, I would say the most significant change is that in the book, it's just Dr.
Mrs.
De Soto in my jam.
Uh, there's, there's young De Soto.
Jay Ray: Let
Idris Goodwin: who grew, grows up in this family business and is
DJ Sir Daniel: Okay.
Idris Goodwin: is, is almost like a young apprentice and is, and of
course is ready, is ready to go.
It's like, I'm 10, I'm double digits.
Like, let me, let me get in
Jay Ray: me get up in that cow's mouth and
DJ Sir Daniel: Yes.
this bicuspid out, you know, and pops is like,
Chill.
Slow down.
Laughter
Idris Goodwin: calm, calm the tape, you know what I'm saying?
And, um, and so it's, it's also about that too, about, you know, young De Soto
makes these, These choices that put the whole family and the business at risk too.
So it is also about that too.
It's like to face the music and when your ambition gets,
you know, whatever, whatever.
So anyway, uh, it's a good time.
It's a good time.
We'll get you in and out in an hour or so.
Jay Ray: man, listen, I, I actually, hopefully I will be in Atlanta
during the dates of this performance.
I think I will.
So I'm looking forward to taking this in, but you actually, um, were
talking about this in your answer.
you were talking about all the people that are working that are working
with you to like in the theater to bring this thing to life, right?
Idris Goodwin: Yeah.
Jay Ray: one of the things I was talking to Sir Daniel about was the thing that
really stood out to me, um, and it feels just very Black, is community
taking care of each other, right?
Idris Goodwin: Mm.
Jay Ray: So the Doctor De Soto and his wife are like members of this community
and there's all of these people, right, that are all of these, all of these,
uh, these animals that are different from them in the community that they
are also choosing to take care of.
And I just wanted to get you to wax poetic a bit about the importance of
community in your work, like you, like displaying that in the work, because
we could see that as well in the, the, the boy who kissed the sky to this
Idris Goodwin: course.
Jay Ray: of that, that interplay.
Idris Goodwin: Yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, I, I think there's a thing that was just ingrained in me a little
bit about being, being of service and being, and being like, you know, what
and, and, and, and, and a thing around like, you know, so, so boy, boy, boy
who kissed the sky, uh, is, is very, uh, much inspired by the Jimi Hendrix story,
DJ Sir Daniel: Yes.
Idris Goodwin: Um, I have another play called And In This Corner, Cash is
Clay, which is about Muhammad Ali's young life in Louisville, Kentucky.
Um, and so, there's there's this interest I have these stories about
these great people, these icons, um, at Seattle Children's Theater,
we're producing, I'm not writing this one, but I'm producing it.
Uh, we're, we're doing a story about Bruce Lee's years in Seattle.
Jay Ray: Wow.
Idris Goodwin: there a relative short amount of time, but he's, he's
buried there now as his, his son.
And most people don't, know that story or why people assume he's buried in
Hollywood or Hong Kong, but there was this really interesting time
in his life when he was like about to start college and everything.
So there's something about, there's something about, um, and for me in these
kinds of stories, I often look to who were the mentors, who were the people in
their community, who were their friends,
Jay Ray: Yeah.
Idris Goodwin: it's about how these people influence them
and shape the thing we know.
So we already know, you know, we see these people on the posters and in the
documentaries, we know Muhammad Ali the greatest and rumble in the jungle
and, and you know, uh, uh, what is it?
Conscious, uh, conscientious objector.
Uh, we know about all that.
Right.
But we don't, but not a lot of people know at what age he started boxing and why,
DJ Sir Daniel: Mhm.
Idris Goodwin: um,
DJ Sir Daniel: Mhm.
Idris Goodwin: And, and, and that he was fighting on local TV at age 12 and
that he had two trainers, he had a white trainer and a black trainer, like, you
know, um, we don't know this stuff.
And so, and so again, it is about the way that.
community influences and shapes us, especially when we're young
often present us with those, as I talked about before, those choices,
Jay Ray: Yes.
Idris Goodwin: They influence our choices.
They activate our choices.
They pick us up when we make a choice that knocks us down,
you know, et cetera, et cetera.
So, you know, and then also to take it further theater in and of itself
is for me is about, know, I'm writing.
writing something that's going to gather people.
I'm very conscious of that, that I am writing, not only gathering a creative
team, you know, actors, designers, whatever, but then gathering an
audience as well, and we're going to go on this, this journey together
and have this conversation together.
So I think, you know, intuitively perhaps I am.
In the case of De Soto, it's ironic you say that because I think the,
the, theater writer slash producer in me was like, Oh, this is actually
a very small, like it's, it's Mr.
It's Dr.
and Mrs.
De Soto and then the Fox.
was like, that's, that's pretty smart.
And they're, they're mostly in this one space.
Right.
Jay Ray: Right.
Idris Goodwin: as we've evolved it, you know, it has become about,
um, how they engage with other members of the animal world.
Jay Ray: Yeah.
Idris Goodwin: how important that is.
So even inevitably, uh, you know, these other, these other, you know,
the, the, the, um, the lens widens.
Right.
Yeah.
Jay Ray: Idris Goodwin, thank you so much, brother, for the work that you are doing.
Um, the ability to just kind of spark imagination.
You know, as we get older, right.
As.
adults.
We grow up and our imagination gets just like life hammers that thing out of us.
But you are doing the work to remind adults about the importance of imagination
and to spark children's imagination.
So we all are ready for Doctor De Soto, sir.
So thank you so much for joining us here at Queue Points and doing your work, man.
This is done.
Idris Goodwin: so much my honor, thanks guys
DJ Sir Daniel: Absolutely.
Like I always say in this life, you have a choice.
You can either pick up the needle or you can let the record play.
I'm DJ Sir Daniel,
Jay Ray: My name is Jay Ray, y'all.
DJ Sir Daniel: and this has been Queue Points podcast, dropping
the needle on black music history.
We will see you on the next go round.
Peace.
Jay Ray: Peace, y'all.