And hard labor then.

It's basically just walking on a Stairmaster, but like a rock one that you

have to push the rock to step up onto the next step, and you have to keep it going.

And it's just exhausting.

And that's what you do all day.

And it does nothing

there's a movie called, I think it's the Snake Pit, where they first term,

gaslighting, they first used that term.

Welcome to talk with history.

I am your host, Scott here with my wife and historian, Jen.

On this podcast, we give you insights to our history inspired world travels,

YouTube channel journey, and examine history through deeper conversations

with the curious, the explorers and the history lovers out there.

Now Jen we are wrapping up your france trip with this podcast, but before we get

into that topic about the famous graves in paris I do want to give a little plug

and let our audience know that there's A new way for you guys to support us,

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So we appreciate them.

And one other thing that's coming with That membership is a new I'll call

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So what's We're going to record our first one just after this episode.

So what are we going to talk about?

it's not going to be our history hat.

I mean, my history hat never comes off.

So it's just things that are a little bit inappropriate for our younger ears.

and more appropriate for older ears, but still has historic value, especially

since I saw the sexiest grave in Paris.

And I really don't think young ears should hear about this grave.

So let's talk about it in history after dark.

Yeah, or some things, sometimes there's certain things that are a

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But there is a membership option and you will get some benefits with that.

So now you were at, remind me of the name of this cemetery in France.

That is one of the most visited cemeteries in the entire world.

Pierre Lachaise.

Pierre Lachaise.

So this is, if you've seen our video, and of course I will link our video

in the show notes, this is a massive, massive cemetery, very historic,

smack in the middle of Paris, France.

the largest cemetery in Paris, France at 110 acres,

and it gets more than 3.

5 million visitors a year.

It's absolutely gorgeous.

It's one of the most visited cemeteries in the world.

It is beautiful, and it has notable Figures in the art world buried there, and

that's who we visited, but the monuments are just beautiful and the statues and

because they allow all different religions and all different backgrounds and all

different classes, there's different things you can afford, of course.

And so different people will have different monuments.

There are sculptures made and they're so elaborate and beautiful that it really is

when you walk around just walking in art.

And for me, I had never really thought about going to Pierre Lachaise before,

but I was with my friend Courtney and she really wanted to go to Pierre Lachaise.

And so I was like, yep, let's do it.

It's a walk to get to.

And then once you're there, It takes a huge part of the city and there's

a lot of entrances to get into it, but there is only one main entrance.

And you'll know that when you walk in because you'll see

the office building there.

the administration office is right in the front part of when you first walk in.

And I think the road that is on is Port Principal.

it should be relatively easy to find if you're in Paris, France.

you can probably get an Uber there.

And you guys went there because there's very famous English

figures that are buried there that, I mean, the non French folks.

Yeah, well, we went there mostly.

I mean, I wanted to see Oscar Wilde.

But Jim Morrison, he's huge.

And that's I think a lot of people go to see him.

I think that is one of the most visited graves in that

Yes.

And but like I said, you can because it's so big, you can get into all these

little nooks and crannies around it.

It's the walls are open to different walkways up inside, but you're not

really going to know where you are.

They have one kind of rudimentary map when you walk in.

And even that was difficult for me to navigate

it's all in French.

So if you know the person's name They do have a kind of like an

English translation just for a little history part of it, nearly

10, 000 funeral ceremonies each year.

And there's over 70, 000 graves there.

So it goes into a little bit of the history.

It wasn't designed until 1804.

So when we talked about Lafayette previously and the Reign of Terror,

this is all before Pilachet even opens.

So Pilachet was one of those places that needed to answer that call of,

unsanitary burials that were happening.

And so they got this large green space in Paris and actually it was Napoleon who

was really established the cemetery and

started to get, put it into use.

And one of the things that I didn't really learn until after I had

made the video because you had gotten your footage there, but you were

wrapping up your trip so you didn't get to spend nearly the amount of time

there to cover everything that's there.

You had some very specific graves you were visiting but some of the unique

Graves and statues and monuments that are there are so very french and I had

showed them to you after I was done making the video And there's some very

interesting ones like there's a grave.

It looks more like a like a Like a tomb right it's it cuz this the box

above ground but there's a statue and it's you could tell it was bronze

because it has that green patina to it And it makes it look like

someone is climbing out of this box.

And that's the statue It was just so interesting and there's another one

of some figure laying down Classic kind of laying in repose, but also

holding like another mask, which looks like another face facing their face.

It was just, I was like, this is so French looking at these pictures.

Yeah, I mean, they're very emotional.

There's one of a woman like crying on a grave, a body like a look like an older

woman laying on a grave crying on it.

There's like a stairway and a looks like death climbing the stairway,

very artistic.

artistic.

I mean, it's France.

Now, what's interesting, this was the first crematorium in France.

it was at the cemetery.

It's still operational

So it's like the first of its kind.

First of its kind.

So because there's so many people buried there, what happens is you can,

you can still be buried there today.

It's difficult.

They have these rules to be buried there.

You have to have lived in Paris.

It's strict.

You have to have died in Paris, but, and they give you just

the size of a coffin area.

That's what Jim Morrison has in a way.

But then you can reuse that grave.

Very French, very New Orleans when you think about it, which

is a very French concept.

So what will happen when we see like Edith Piaf's grave?

You'll see seven names on that grave.

And it's only the size of a tomb.

So you're like, what's going on here?

Well, they just keep digging down and they'll just put the call, the

coffin before you has more than likely collapsed and disintegrated.

So they'll just shove the new one down on top of it.

And basically they're just packing you in.

and that's really how it is in New Orleans with above ground

tombs is they Pack your bones in.

Yeah, you're all mixed with your family, and that's exactly

what they're doing more or less

Your whole family can be in one tomb, but they'll just

keep shoving the coffins down.

So that's how they reuse space and make use of space there.

There are so many and they're so close together.

And when you're navigating, it's just very difficult the roadways

and trying to walk in between.

And when you see Jim Morrison on the video, like he's like behind another,

Tucked in this corner.

yeah, he's behind a big.

significant grave that's tall.

So you have to go behind it and look and go, Oh, there it is.

And I had spoke, one person had mentioned on the channel, it was their guard there.

So I guess when she had gone previously, they would have a guard standing, but

there wasn't a guard when I was there.

Jim Morrison was a singer.

He was a lead singer of the doors.

He dies relatively young.

He's 27 years old.

He died July 3rd, 1971 in Paris, France.

So that's one of the reasons why he's buried at Pierre Lachaise.

Plus the fact that he loved the French culture and he loved being there.

But I think he died from a drug overdose, if I'm not mistaken.

and so he just had such an influence on music and the art world.

People still love The Doors today.

It was a great movie with Val

Yeah, well, and he's one of those classic rock star died young

and just had the look and just became this rock pop culture icon.

I had actually looked up a couple of little interesting tidbits about him.

So he was actually a published poet and I guess known at one point as the

lizard king But he supposedly had an iq level of 149 which would have put him

in like the genius category Anything above I think 130 Is essentially you're

in the top one or two percent, right?

Because the average person I think is somewhere in right around 100, right?

But you know very interesting and makes sense for somebody like that.

That's just probably highly intelligent But probably might have a screw loose,

so and that oftentimes that makes artists

Absolutely.

And he was, he's found dead in a bathroom at 6am.

Official cause of death was heart failure, but no autopsy was performed.

And there's conspiracy theories around his death, that it could have

happened at, some say at a heroin overdose in a club's bathroom at 2am.

And then his body was taken away by two men who were the drug dealers

to hide in his house in the tub because it was no autopsy.

There's, it leads it open to conspiracy theories.

Now his death is approximately nine months after Jimi Hendrix and Janis Joplin.

So he's in that same kind of magical genre of those amazing artists who

were taken very early by drugs.

And we never know what else they could have contributed to the art world.

But what we got of them was just so amazing and magical that even today,

like I was just singing Janis Joplin in the car the other day, like even

today, we still love their music.

You mentioned on the video that his father was I think like

an admiral or something like that,

in Florida, 1943.

And just like you said, 27 years old and such a loss at such a young age.

And if you haven't seen The Doors.

Movie.

I think it does a really good job of Val Kilmer and I think it's Meg

Ryan, who plays his girlfriend.

Really good movie.

So it was neat to go there because I think they actually show the

grave at the end of the movie.

Yeah.

And like you said, you watch our video and you can't get all

the way up to it 'cause you were respecting the IES that they put up.

But there is a ton, you could tell there's tons of people that visit there.

So they have a picture of him and his youth.

Like some of those classic Jim Morrison pictures that are still

popular posters to this day.

And there's trinkets and all sorts of stuff that's all kind of all covering his

Absolutely.

And so another grave that's probably very visited and so much so that

they have plastic guarding the grave is Oscar Wilde, who I adore.

That's who I wanted to see more than anybody.

I love his poetry.

He's an Irish poet.

We actually, I think we're in Dublin and we were sitting at a

cafe and I looked over and there was a statue of him at that park.

Remember?

And I said, Oh my gosh, it's Oscar Wilde

Oh, okay.

And he trains at Trinity College in Dublin, but he goes on to Oxford and he

writes some of the most amazing poetry.

books like The Picture of Dorian Gray, and The Importance of Being Earnest.

And I just think he has such a wit.

I just adored his writing.

Now Oscar Wilde gets caught up in this Victorian era

libel case for homosexuality.

Because his lover is the son of a very powerful aristocrat and that

aristocrat goes after Oscar Wilde,

it Lord Alfred Douglas?

And he's found he's found guilty of gross indecency.

And because of that, he goes to prison and he's forced two years

of hard labor from 1895 to 1897.

And hard labor then.

If you see there's a really great movie about Oscar.

It's basically just walking on a Stairmaster, but like a rock one that you

have to push the rock to step up onto the next step, and you have to keep it going.

And it's just exhausting.

And that's what you do all day.

And it does nothing.

And it's not it just it really just wears on your psyche because you're not doing

anything, but you're working so hard

I have never heard that before.

And that was his punishment for two

So like literally they would make you do hard labor.

That was completely pointless.

It's not even breaking up big rocks in the little rocks.

Wow.

And it disheartened him so much that he never wanted to go back to England.

And that's when he goes to Paris and he dies in Paris in 1900 at age 46.

So also very young.

And his tomb is also something that gets people want to a trinket from.

It's a very interesting looking tomb for him because it's very Egyptian.

It is very Egyptian looking.

It's almost like a pharaoh kind of

a Pharaoh Sphinx type deal.

But and realize Oscar Wilde was a huge traveler like he came to America,

he did a whole tour here.

And so it it has that kind of feeling around it.

it looks about the size of a coffin, but built up and then

it's engraved all around it.

Yeah, there was a neat kind of poem I guess that whoever made it

that was inscribed on the back that you read in the videos, I liked it.

Yeah, it was really neat.

it's all protected by this plastic on every side because of so much people who,

vandalize it and take pieces of it off.

He was initially buried in another cemetery in Paris, but in 1909 his remains

were moved to Pierre Lachaise and his tomb was designed by Sir Jacob Epstein.

It's a modernist angel and it's supposed to depict the relief on the tomb

originally complete with so again, history after dark, we'll get more into

talk more about

more into that, but just know that it's a very atomically correct grave.

So don't be surprised when you go there and if you see

that, but again, that's what.

gets broken.

And one of the other things that was interesting that I think must be

a tradition at that particular grave is women like left kisses all over

the kind of glass surrounding of it.

And it, I read that they even did that before they put that up

Yeah.

And I would have had lipstick.

I would have done that too, because I just love Oscar Wilde so much.

And again, it's just, it's one of those graves, like you'll, you'll

know when you see it cause it stands alone and it's so unique.

of the things I had looked up about him, obviously they're talking

about his wit and humor, right?

That that's what his writing was known for.

And one of his many quotes, where he said, I can resist everything except temptation.

So that kind of speaks to his writing.

And I love, he would say be yourself.

Everyone else has taken, right?

He was always just, he was so quick witted in simplicity.

that I love that about him.

So I, that's who I really wanted to see.

And I was very happy to see him.

He is in the middle and hard to find.

And again, that that rudimentary map that they give you, it's difficult to figure

it out, but because he's so well traveled, if you see people walking around there,

if you just follow them, most people are

they're going to Jim Morrison, Oscar Wilde.

Now the next one is actually another American

tied to gone with the wind.

So who'd you who'd you at least try to find next?

Olivia de Havill, Dame d'Olivia de Havill, is de Havillan,

is from Gone with the Wind.

She plays Melanie.

She's Scarlet's nemesis, I guess you could say, but famous actress.

She was in many other movies.

She's Academy Award winner.

She lives to be 104.

She dies in 2020.

She's just one of those people that she was in The

Adventures of Robin Hood, right?

She plays Mary Marion with Errol Flynn.

Like she's just in all of these famous movies, the snake pit, the

heiress that she wins back to get nominations for best actress for those.

Like she's just one of those women that is in all of these timeless movies.

And of course, Gone with the wind and she was the last surviving person

from gone with the wind and she lived in paris the end of her life

and you say she's she's american.

She's like british american and french.

she holds all of those citizenships

Okay

She dies in Paris, and she's cremated, and she's

buried at Père Lachaise.

Now, we went looking for her, but they don't think that they have

put her ashes into the crematorium area, they haven't put up her body.

marker yet.

So we walked through the crematorium and you can see in

the video, it's very large walls

there's a lot there.

and they're very small, probably like eight by eight

squares with these large walls that have different people's names.

So you really have to look and read and you don't know where the new ones are.

So we just walk through the crematorium area and looked at those

walls and she's in there somewhere.

She will eventually be marked with her name.

For me, like I love Gone with the Wind and I love her portrayal in that movie.

Plus, I just think she's a great actress.

there's a movie called, I think it's the Snake Pit, where they first term,

gaslighting, they first used that term.

where she's starting to, she sees things and she's trying to tell

somebody this is what's happening and the person is doing it to her

to make her feel like she's crazy.

So he keeps saying, that's not what you're seeing.

You're not, and so that's, and she's holding a gas light.

as she's asking the questions and she's No, I see this.

I see this.

And he's No, you're wrong.

You're completely wrong.

Something must be wrong with you.

Oh,

And so that that's where the term gaslighting comes from, because

she's holding a gas light in her hand as he's doing that to her.

That's so interesting because, I mean, really, it's been in the past,

I'd say, ten years that, that term has really come back and surfaced

because of all the online stuff.

How interesting.

1940s.

Olivia de Havilland, like she's just, she's one of those.

silver screen movie stars that really did put Hollywood on the map.

Well, and I read too that she was, so much like a hollywood industry

figure at one point she was this legal pioneer for women and actresses and

actually successfully sued warner brothers in 1943 and it led to basically

reducing the power that film studios had Over actors' careers, her success

in this legal case that she won.

So she sounds once I was learning more about her, just this staple and pillar

of Hollywood for many, many years.

And plus a very, very successful and talented actress.

Yeah, it says she went to Academy Awards and she's one of the

first people to method act as well.

. You have to remember, Pielicei, when Napoleon started Pielicei, his whole

premise was anyone could be buried here regardless of class and religion.

So it was one of the very first places to have a Muslim section, a Jewish section

and So much so that there used to be a cross when you walked into Père Lachaise,

they took the cross down, but there are religious symbols throughout the cemetery.

Anyone can put up their own religious symbols on their own graves.

And so you'll see a lot of strong Christianity or Judaism as you

walk through the cemetery because anybody from any religious background

or class could be buried there.

And that was radical at the time in the early 1800s to do that.

Interesting.

that's neat about Père Lachaise.

One of the things that I kind of love about this specific

episode, especially for Famous Graves in Paris, France, it's all

artists and writers and singers.

and I love that because when you think of Paris, France, that's who you think of.

Yeah, when you go to France, it's very much the lover, the dreamer,

The artists.

of course, we're going to end the episode with Edith Piaf.

She sings to me to my favorite French song, La Vida en Rose.

Now La Vida en Rose, roughly translated is like looking through

life in rose colored glasses.

Yeah, so if I'm going to play just a quick snippet of that

song and you'll, when you hear it, you will recognize it immediately.

La Vie en Rose: my dear, I'm all done I'm all done for the day

So that is La Vie en Rose.

And so I don't think there's a person on this planet that doesn't hear

that song and think of Paris, France.

Yeah, she's.

regarded as French, France's greatest popular singer and

one of the most celebrated performers of their 20th century

And she actually wrote that song.

gosh.

I didn't know

Yeah.

So she actually wrote that song and her stage name of PF actually means Sparrow

in French in Parisian slang and it's because she was only like four foot eight.

So she was very short.

And so that's how she got that name.

Well, there's a great movie made about her.

I think Marion Collard plays her and it's called La Vita Rose and you see

her life like she was born in a brothel.

She's a daughter of a prostitute and she lives in that brothel until she's in

her like early, teens, but she's blind.

She's born blind and she's blind until she's I think eight or nine years old.

And her mother takes her To a relic, basically a French relic that people

will touch and pray and miracles will happen and they did and she could see

I, it is crazy, but that's what happens.

And then she's always malnourished and she's always sickly and

that they attribute to her.

She never grows very tall and she dies very young.

She's 47.

She never really is a robust.

healthy person.

Now she also succumbs to alcoholism and she has a very rough lifestyle, I

would say, but her voice is magical.

And like I said, La Vita Rose means life in pink or life in rose,

life with rose colored glasses.

to me, it's one of the most beautiful French songs.

But when we found her grave there's a lot of her family is in one tomb.

basically think of a top of a tomb there's names written around it.

And you'll see if you see in the video, it's nice.

It's a nice marble tomb and they put pictures

and you can tell people visit it because there's pictures of her.

And it's off the beaten path and these very, very thin walk arounds,

but you can walk around it and see it.

And it was just to me another person I really wanted to see

because I loved, I love that song.

and I love that Louis Armstrong remade the song because this is probably

where I first heard this version of it,

which is just beautiful as, as you listen to this.

And there's something to be said about people like that who will make

their mark even with one song and it's just this lightning bolt moment.

she was a very popular singer, right?

and cultural icon at the time.

But for something like that, I mean, that song defines.

It's in the definition of Paris, France.

And so it was really cool that you got to go visit her.

Yeah.

Her last words were every damn thing you do in life, you have to pay for.

And she dies of liver cancer from the drinking.

So again 47 years old and she dies in 1963 and she's buried at Père Lachaise.

Her grave is among the most visited.

So for me to go there, it was something I hadn't thought of doing before.

Courtney really dragged me there, And it was just fantastic

to be able to see all of them.

And then I knew Olivia de Haville had recently died, and she

was going to be buried there.

So for me to walk around there and just see to see it and to experience

it with people and tourists.

And you'll see in the video, this is cats.

This is cats there.

Like it really is a part of the Paris lifestyle.

I can see, I can absolutely see people who live in that area.

just going there to go walk around.

it's just beautiful.

You can just get lost in it and just wander around and see all the

different interesting graves and tombs and statues and all that stuff.

And it's just beautiful.

So if you're in Paris, France there's not only famous American

graves there, there's also famous French, very, very famous French

people that are buried there as well.

Sure.

I mean, you're going to see if there are people, a lot of historians

asked me, did you go see Proust?

Did you go see, Marcel Marceau?

And I'm like,

I think like Balzac, like he was a French writer.

Chopin, Chopin is there there's just very, very famous people.

And it is the place if you want to know someone who influenced

France or French writing or French painting or French media, they're

probably buried in Pierre Lachaise.

yeah.

And again, I'll just remind folks as we wrap things up here, if you want to

support us over at the history road trip.

com, you can hear your name in the future credits of shows.

And if you want to listen to our history after dark occasional episodes that

we will have for members only, you can join us over at the history road trip.

com.

Thank you.

This has been a Walk With History production.

Talk With History is created and hosted by me, Scott Bennie.

Episode researched by Jennifer Bennie.

Check out the show notes for links and references mentioned in this episode.

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