I am honored today to have my good buddy, my business partner in the Driven Mastermind, the 250 million webinar guy, or if you prefer, the quarter billion dollar webinar guy. Jason Fladlin. Jason, thanks for being here. Awesome. It is a pleasure, my friend. the way that I've described Jason to other people it's like going to A schoolyard fight, knowing that your big brother is going to show up. Anytime I ever have to do anything when Jason's there, it actually, it makes me lazy, It hurts my growth as a human, because I just know Oh, Jason's got this. Jason's going to be able to answer the questions. But the amount of value I've seen you provide, we're on a Wednesday call every single week together for 90 minutes and you just melt people's faces with the shit that you know. And so I'm super excited to have you here on the podcast, providing value to our listeners. Appreciate your time today. If I can serve and help, then I'm happy. Yeah, I have no doubt you can. And Will, speaking of, we always like to start off with a nugget, quick hit value, just so people feel like they're getting something out of the gate and we're not wasting their time with banter. Do you have something that you think the Perpetual Traffic listener would benefit from? I think so, yeah, the metaphor. It's weird, I take this for granted, Qasim, but looking back at all the major record breaking campaigns we've done, we've always had some sort of solid metaphor. that the end user could wrap their heads around instantaneously. And I was just working with a consulting client the other day, and we were going through her webinar, and I'm just like, you're metaphors. If you could have a metaphor here, then everybody could understand this right now. Here's what happens when we're teaching concepts to people. They don't know them, so it's an unknown. can try to teach things that are unknown that they don't have any real experience with or understanding of, and you can see how that's really hard to teach, right? Or we can link it to something that is known, and then everything becomes much easier to understand. And so I was working with her through metaphors and the rule set that I have with metaphors. Because sometimes people come up with good metaphors, but then they create objections. So I have another client. they came to us with a metaphor for this roadmap for a course, and they're like, these are the 10 flags you're going to plan as you climb up the mountain. And I'm like, ah, I wish we could redo it. It's too late. They'd already shipped it out. But the metaphor of a mountain is you could die climbing to the top of it. It's hard. So that create an objection. So we're always on the hunt for the greatest metaphor that doesn't create objections, that's easy to understand. And when people say, Oh, now that I get this, I can relate it from a known to an unknown and they learn more and it's more persuasive. With the right metaphor. So my business partner and I will spend an hour like for a product that we're launching on just the perfect metaphor for it. One of the things that impresses me about you so much is the amount of time you're willing to spend. You shared something with the mastermind. It was a week or two ago. You're working on a webinar and I forgot what the ratio was, but like for every minute of webinar, it's however many hours of research. So the funny thing was I have about maybe a minute in this webinar of we're talking about using Shopify as the e commerce platform. So we're helping people to get started in business. And one of the components is the framing is storefront. By the way, notice I call it storefront, not e commerce site. Storefront is something people are more aware of E commerce site. There are many metaphor, if you will. And I'm thinking, how do I present Shopify best foot forward? Easiest to understand. Somebody can accept it immediately and not get confused by it. So I'm doing this research. And one of the articles I find in my research was by you, remember that? And you had an article on like the 15 reasons why Shopify is the best e commerce platform or something along those lines. And so I'm synthesizing all of these little bits and pieces. It's like a ransom note where you cut out every little letter from a magazine and you glue them all together. I'm trying to compress that in, and that is for maybe a minute of runtime in a webinar. for that particular thing, I've spent 15, 20, 30 minutes just figuring out how I can make the very best minute of that presentation. Now, Qasim, I have the luxury of doing that, because I've been able to Build my business in a way where I can stay in my unique ability as much as possible. Not easy to do. And it took me about 15 years to figure that out, but I pretty much just focus on a couple things. The main thing that I mostly focus on is the webinars when it comes. Time to block and tackle, if you will other than that, it's, strategic partnerships with people who have the best products that we can build the best marketing and the best funnels for them. So the main thing I get to focus on in most of my working hours is creating webinars. So I have the luxury of spending 50 to 100 hours developing a webinar. Because I don't have to do all the other stuff that most other people have to do in their business. Here's one more little interesting thing for you. So Perry our business partner in Driven, he mentioned about a copywriter called Daniel Throstle. And he's Oh, I think he's the best. So I went and signed up for his list one day. This was very early on when we just first launched Driven. I started dialoguing back and forth with him a little bit. And I end up running an ad on Daniel's list and I don't know if that was the cause of it or not, but we had a copywriter come through because that was my whole thing is like nobody knows how to write copies specifically for webinar funnels. So I'm going to train you in the hopes that maybe I can hire one or two of you in the future. Disclaimer, I do no hiring. My business partner, Wilson Matos, does all the hiring. I, as in the royal we of the company, hire. And Will's been showing me copy lately for this new project we're working on. And it's really good. Usually when we have an in house copywriter named Matt has worked with us for 10 years. Who's amazing, but he's over booked very quickly. So now we need outside help for copy. And so Will's been sending me this additional copy and I'm like, this is really good. And he's yeah, we got a new hire. And then Daniel emailed me like last week and he was Hey I heard you're working with this copywriter named Paris. And then I'm like, are we, I just knew we had a copywriter. I text Will and I was like, is that who it is? And he's yeah, that's who it is. So then I emailed Daniel back and I'm like, yeah, I guess we are. I didn't even know this. That's how hands off I am. That I didn't even know the name of the copywriter that we hired to write the supplemental copy. And I told Daniel, I was like, I'm grateful. The fact that I don't have to get hands on, that I can stay hands off so I can stay. working on the webinar, which for this client and this particular project is the highest leverage value that I could possibly focus on. But I do that at the expense of pretty much eliminating most everything else on a day to day basis in my life. Have you read 10x is easier than 2x? Yeah, so Benjamin Hardy is a, I would consider him a close friend. He sent me an advanced copy of that even before it was released as feedback. In fact, one of the people in that book Dr. Alan Bernard I introduced him. To Ben and Ben end up using him as a focal point for that book because Dr. Alan Bernard pretty much is the torchbearer of theory of constraints. So the book, the goal Alan is like the shepherd of that now. So theory of constraints is a different way of looking at 10 X, meaning if you remove this one constraint, you could 10 X or 100 X of business. I try to live that ethos as much as possible that Ben talks about, I'm not as brave as Ben is on it. I really admire him because he's ruthless. Cause you have to sacrifice your 80 percent to focus on your 20%, but then you do that, you lock it in and you get really good at it. And guess what happens? You have a new 80 percent that you have to sacrifice and it just never ends. You just continue to hone and to fine tune into and to narrow down. Yeah. Which is razor sharp, but it's the most clinically effective tool anybody's ever had. Yeah. it's a matter of, and this is something I struggle with. It's a matter of how much, how big do you want to go and is it worth it? So I've eased off the gas in my elderly years. I'm geriatric in the internet business, been at it for quite a while. And I'm like, man, I'd rather get third or second place these days but sleep well at night, then get first place, beat everybody else and feel exhausted. But maybe that's a temporary state. Second place still makes a ton of money, but it has to work half as hard as first place. That's how I'm feeling these days where it's just okay. I'm not willing to make the sacrifices anymore that I used to make it to get the edge that I used to have. So you get your edges in other ways. Now, with that said, like the biggest edge you can have in your business is your reputation. And so I'm very fortunate and you've seen this many times, right? Qasim, that just who I am when I walk in a room does 90 percent of the heavy lifting in the rooms that we play in. So a lot of my work is done for me and that's the result of the input of 15 years. of relentless pursuit of excellence. Yeah. that's not a small statement, man. I have seen it. It reminds me of, I was listening to a Joe Rogan podcast and I forget who he was talking to, but they were talking about how once a comedian gets to a certain level, They actually can't bomb. Yeah. Because people go knowing, Oh, it's Chris Rock. I love Chris Rock. I've got 15 years Chris Rock, embedded in me. So anything this dude says, I'm going to laugh at because he has that context to draw upon. And it's not that he's not funny. He gets to be meta funny because he has All of that history with you, and I feel like you have that same thing. You've planted so many seeds, and you've trained so many people. Dude, is it fair to say you're the most quoted person in Alex Hormozy's book? Yeah, that is fair to say. That's crazy. Hormozy's, what, easily the greatest marketer alive at the moment, and you just did full on Multi day consults with him. He consults with you, quotes you. Yeah, pays me too. It's not like I do it for fun, right? And get paid. Yeah. That's gotta feel pretty good though. When Michael Jordan comes to you and says, hey, I need a coach. Yeah, I like Tim Grover and that, right? I'm doing the strength training.