00:00:00 Sana: Have you ever had a day where nothing, nothing is technically wrong, but then your body is acting like something is. You know, like your brain is sprinting. Your chest is tight, your short with people you love or you are so tired you can't even start the thing you care about. And then someone says, just relax. And then you want to throw your phone into the sea. Yes, today we are talking about nervous system regulation, not as a trend, not as a personality trait, but as a practical skill that changes how you live, lead, love and recover. Because if if your nervous system is stuck in survival, even a beautiful life can feel like a burden.

00:01:04 Sana: So welcome back everyone to the Mindful Living Podcast, a space for honest, raw conversations about what it means to be a whole human. Not just productive, not just fine, but whole. I am Sana and today I'm joined by Doctor Amy, a certified success and wellbeing coach who works with high achieving, quietly exhausted people who are running on empty. Now, before coaching, Doctor Amy spent years as a veterinarian and medical director in a high stakes environment where caring deeply was expected and rest was optional. And she doesn't talk about burnout like it's a weakness. But then, you know, she talks about it like it's a nervous system story. So let's begin this explorative conversation. And Doctor Amy, welcome to the show. And I'm really glad you are here.

00:02:05 Dr. Amy Grimm: Thank you so much, Sana. I am really looking forward to our conversation today. Yeah, yeah.

00:02:13 Sana: And Amy, um, Amy, I mean, you know, the, the words, which kind of, you know, when I started the intro, um, that is something that I still feel sometimes, you know, and why am I saying this particularly because I'm in a phase right now where, um, I have voluntarily left the, the, you know, the usual template of the work life, the nine to five or anything. Um. For me it is um, it's kind of, you know, I'm flexible. I do have most of the times freedom to choose. Um, and then I can be with my loved ones whenever I want. So from that perspective, um, my, myself, my own inner self, it feels happy. But then still I do get those moments where I, I'm like irritated or frustrated. I just, I just want to throw the phone away, sit quietly in a room or just get, get away from all this noise and, you know, just, just stay in a quiet place. So, um, I, I absolutely appreciate that you're bringing up this topic for all of us.

00:03:28 Dr. Amy Grimm: Yes. Yeah. I mean, I think so many of us believe that we have control over our nervous system states. And while we certainly can manage it and the outcome, most of the things that we experience, especially, you know, when we have those moments of, oh, that tightness in our chest or feeling on edge, or maybe we just feel, you know, like really tired and like, we just, you know, like you said, want to throw the phone away. A lot of that is happening on a biological level. So just because we experience it doesn't mean that anything has gone wrong or more importantly, that there's anything wrong with you or anything wrong with what you're doing or the choices that you're making. This is just a normal nervous system response to the environment. And I think the part that really speaks to me about it is, you know, knowing that I can understand what's happening in my body. And then I can show compassion and kindness to myself in a way that supports me, and then also allows me to decide, okay, do I want to keep feeling this way, or are there things that I can do to, you know, help myself feel better in this moment? Like what, what do I need right now? What is this feeling trying to tell me? And I think that's honestly, for most people, a much more productive and helpful response than just continually wondering, you know, oh, why do I feel this way? I've created the life that I thought I wanted, but I still don't feel good about it. Or now I'm beating myself up mentally because I'm having one of those like, bad, agitated days. So for me, it's, it's more about this all encompassing perspective of yes. And just know that this is your body's normal response and you are human and you are beautiful just as you are. And that is okay. I think we don't need to get mad at ourselves when we do go into these stress states.

00:05:59 Sana: That's a huge, huge relief in there, you know, because, um, a lot of people, uh, and especially when we consider the wellness and the healing circles and the conversations, it like becomes this, um, um, metric or more like a performance that, you know, you are calm, you are serenaded, you are, um, relaxed. That means everything is good. But you know, like if I am regulated, I never should be irritated or anxious or overwhelmed. But I think the as you mentioned it perfectly, like these are all the natural states. These are these are natural ways of our nervous system. Um, to kind of, you know, um, respond and I think, um, standard, which kind of is talked about, it's, it's, it can be honestly very punishing. Like it can really lead us to this, you know, judging our own, like I am weird or I am no, no, I'm different. Something is wrong with me.

00:07:00 Dr. Amy Grimm: Yeah, yeah. And I think, you know, when I look at the nervous system as a whole perspective, I mean, this is something that's been developing from, you know, the time of conception. You know, we go through embryology as we're developing in the womb and your nervous system is developing, and it is influenced by your maternal mother's nervous system and everything she is experiencing while pregnant with you. And then we have all of these external experiences that affect us and how we grow and adapt all throughout our entire lives, which means that every single one of us is going to have a very unique nervous system. You know, your own nervous system is as unique as your fingerprints. It is very specific to you. And because of that, we can have this wide range of what we have experienced and then our nervous systems, memory and interpretation of those experiences, which then affects how it responds in the present moment. And it's very handy for, you know, survival and making those kind of quick decisions to help you, you know, jump out of the way if a car is like coming towards you at an intersection, but it can also misread just everyday events as threats as well. So it's not entirely accurate. And I think one of the most healing things that I tell myself and that I found works really well for clients is to say, you know, I am not my nervous system because sometimes, like you've mentioned before, we tend to beat ourselves up for not feeling regulated. But the goal is not to stay regulated all the time. And when you think about just things happening in the world, like right now, I, I'm in the United States. And for anybody who is following the news, there's a lot of political unrest going on right now. And Many people feel very big emotions around this. And that is perfectly okay because if you think about it, if you are completely regulated all the time and the stuff did not affect you, you know, what kind of life would that be? We want to have these spikes where we can go into different states, you know, whether that be an activated state or a lower energy state, because we actually want to feel those feelings and emotions in order to have this, you know, enriched, fully experienced life. So I always tell myself, when I have these big feelings that, you know, one, I'm not my nervous system. And two, just because I'm responding in a particular way doesn't necessarily mean that it's accurate either. Things can be misinterpreted. You know, this is just a little scanning radar that's trying to look for safety and danger. So that's where it really steps more into personal responsibility than of being able to say, okay, I need to know what my own signs and symptoms are, that maybe I'm not feeling as at ease as I want or I'm not feeling, you know, as confident or comfortable. And then bring it back to that compassion of, okay, what are these emotions actually trying to tell me? And if they could speak, what would they say to me? And based on that, what can I do for myself to help me feel better in this moment? Because there's so much in our lives that's out of control and we cannot do anything about. But we can always be responsible for our internal experience, even if it doesn't necessarily feel the way that we want it to in that particular moment.

00:11:36 Sana: And in you really put such a valid point in there. Uh, because yes, the because this is something that I've, you know, I've, I'm now seeing a shift in understanding and, and this realization that, you know, okay, stress is bad, anxiety is bad, fear is bad, but then all of it is bad. Like, you know, I have had conversations where people are, you know, guests are talking about good and the bad stress. There's good stress, there's a bad stress. It doesn't have to be always in the extreme, somewhere in the middle so that we are not balanced, but we are at least aware about the fact that. Okay, um, let me not just be what my nervous system is. Let me understand it. Why is it reacting? Why is it happening like this? Let me work on it. But let me also be aware that yes, if my, my environment, my surroundings, the situation, uh, around right now, because as a human, I'm also part of, of, uh, you know, the entire community in there, a country in there. Then we, we shouldn't numb ourselves, you know, just to kind of run away just to like, be an ostrich and bury our head into the sand.

00:13:03 Dr. Amy Grimm: Mhm. Yeah. And I love that you brought up the topic of good stress and bad stress. I think, you know, as humans, it's very desirable to try to package things into these neat little boxes. So, you know, we want to have things that are obviously good or bad, black and white. And when I think of this from a like a biology perspective, and now I'm talking about, you know, the science of stress, it's really a continuum. And the term eustress, it means good stress. That's the Greek you for good, but it doesn't necessarily mean good in the moral interpretation that we like to give it. Really what it means is that's just the baseline level of, um, you know, like cortisol and adrenaline and these neurotransmitters that we have in our body and we need for daily function, right? The whole reason we wake up in the morning is because we have a cortisol spike. And then as that decreases over the day, then we reach this very low baseline level, which allows us to go to sleep and to rest. So that is my interpretation of good, which I'm putting in air quotations for us. And to me, it just means that sort of natural rhythm, that biological flow. And then on the other hand, we have what people typically are talking about as bad stress, and that is the distress. You know, when somebody says, oh, I'm really stressed or that was really stressful. And on a biological level, that just means those normal hormones are at higher levels right now, and they're at levels that can sort of override our normal systems. And that's why, you know, many of us can almost become stuck in a stress state because these types of hormones are trying to make us push through and keep going, even when there is no danger or if there was a potential threat. It's long gone. But our body is still activated. You know, like, I don't know if you've ever had a moment where something you know, scares you, gives you a fright. Um, it wasn't a big deal at all. Maybe it was just, you know, a shadow or something that you saw. And that initial response where you go, you know, that's your adrenaline kicking in. And then you still feel agitated or on edge ten to twenty minutes later. And that's because that's how long it takes your cortisol levels to rise. So there's this delayed response. And once again that doesn't mean that it's bad. That's just normal biology. But if we don't do anything to then release that stress to help those hormones dissipate, that's when we can end up in that state of chronic stress, which I think is what many people describe as just being, you know, on edge, agitated. Maybe it feels like, you know, they're going through life, but it's not as meaningful or as purposeful as they want. And that's only because nobody ever teaches us how to come home, which is, you know, regulation. That's the release of these stress hormones. But to speak to your point earlier, you know, none of this is good or bad. It's just tools and strategies that we can learn to help support ourselves through these normal biological cycles. And really, the goal is actually to be flexible. It's not to be regulated all the time. That would be super boring if you were just in one state for your entire life, right? Like you want to be able to go out and experience these feelings and, you know, enjoy all of life and even, you know, the suffering. Like we cannot have the joy and the happiness without the suffering. That contrasts it. So the big goal is to be able to embrace all of those experiences and all of those emotions, and be able to anchor in the fact that we can always come home like it's okay to go out and have a bad day or maybe, you know, do something that you regret later, but you always have that ability to be kind to yourself, forgive yourself, show yourself grace, and then to come home again. And I think that's really where the magic lies.

00:18:02 Sana: It does. It actually does. It actually does. And it actually makes a lot of lot of sense. Like I, I, maybe, you know, some of our listeners won't agree with it, but I definitely agree with it because the word that you mentioned, the flexibility in there. Yes. It is. Okay. I mean, you can be stressed out. Um, or maybe you at times you would like to be regulated. You want to relax, but then, you know, it's like this, um, this psychology that, um, when you're working for five days, Monday to Friday, you get to enjoy your weekends. You have that, you know, that, um, that, um, oh my goodness, I am not able to get that word, but that anxious, that wearing of okay, okay, after two days, uh, this Saturday, this Sunday, I'll get to enjoy that. So let me, let me do my work properly, you know, then I'll happily enjoy my weekend. There's this kind of feeling that, you know, that that differential feeling in there. But then if Monday to Sunday, I'm there at home, I'm not doing anything. I'm just just sitting idle. For me, every day is the same day. So I know it can be a bit, you know, strange, but I believe you know, it kind of, you know, we can draw some parallels from in there.

00:19:35 Dr. Amy Grimm: Mhm. Yeah, yeah. And I mean, there's so many directions I could take this now because you've brought up so many wonderful, different nuanced topics in there. And I think the one that that speaks to me right now is kind of living for the weekend. You know, like you're working, you're being productive and you're waiting to get to Friday so that you can have those two weekend days to yourself and enjoy it. And I think that is if you're somebody who feels this way and you're living this way, that's a indicator that your nervous system is probably a little bit more on edge or in that high alert state, then you may want it to be. And this is why these tools of regulation are so important, because what happens is when we go through the day, we experience different events and our nervous system can interpret them as being threats, which then trigger us into this hyper activated state. And a lot of working people are going to experience this as trying to be productive and getting things done and meeting deadlines and answering all of these emails that keep coming in. And that stress kind of builds and builds and builds and it builds all throughout the week and it's slowly increasing your baseline Monday through Friday. And then when you get to the weekend, you're finally able to let that all go. And I think, you know, a much more an enjoyable way to experience your Monday through Friday is to do a little nervous system resets throughout your day so that your stress doesn't build as high, even in the face of the work that you're doing. Because most of the time, the tasks, the jobs, they're going to remain the same. But if you can regulate yourself throughout the day, your experience of them will become completely different and you won't feel as hurried or pressured. Like there's this internal urgency or stress or anxiety that like low buzz or hum, that's kind of in, your body that tightness and tension. So for anybody who's listening to this, you know, I'd really encourage you to explore things like tapping, humming, um, bilateral movement, just getting up and going outside for a minute, stretching, looking at the sunshine. These things, they all sound really simple. And that's because they are, but it really requires intentionality from us to do them because most of the time our brain has been programmed to try to do as much as possible, as quickly as possible. So when you think about slowing down, your brain starts to yell at you and says, I don't have time for this. Like, oh, we couldn't possibly step outside for a minute because we're still working on this thing right now. And if that is something you experience, that is the exact moment where you need to say to your brain, no, actually we need to step away from this, even if it's just thirty to 60s, because that's how you train your body and your nervous system, that it doesn't have to stay in this high alert all the time. That's how you train it that you know what, it's safe for me to actually take care of myself and still show up for my job and be productive and have this purposeful, meaningful work without exhausting myself so much that I just have to make it through to the weekend in order to survive. That's sort of the the compassion aspect that I mentioned earlier, where I stop and check in with myself and I say, okay, what is it that I need in this moment? And a lot of times my brain will yell at me and be like, girl, you need to finish this work. You know, you've got so much stuff to do. And then I say, no hush brain. Like, what do we actually need? And it's usually something like, okay, you know what? We actually just need to step away from the computer for a minute and stretch. I actually just need to walk for five minutes and feel my body move again and feel like a human again instead of this cog in a machine. And like, those are these little micro moments that you're trying to create, which will help you then feel more steady throughout your day and throughout your week. And eventually that's going to bring or increase, I should say, the level of enjoyment that you can feel throughout your life. And it's going to expand your capacity to be able to handle those bigger, more negative emotions more easily, more effectively, because you're going to have expanded your capacity to feel safe even when your nervous system is being constantly triggered.

00:25:12 Sana: One hundred percent, no doubt in that. I really appreciate, Amy, that you addressed this, because that is something I've also realized that and, you know, this is a very, very common with, um, especially high achievers that it kind of feels like a crime to take rest or take a quick pause in there. Um, that if I'm taking a break in there, I'm going to lose control of everything. Things are going to get completely against, um, they're going to work. Everything is going to work against me. Um, but then like, you know, I, um, I resort to music, um, good songs or good, uh, very calming music. Um, just to calm myself down. Of course, stretching is such a beautiful exercise. Another way. Of course there is I mean, it depends on person to person, human to human. Whichever way makes you feel safe, makes you feel to have a little bit of compassion for yourself. I think that is something which everyone of us can do. I mean, it sounds easy that take a walk or do this, do that, but sometimes, you know, it is it is quite difficult to even find fifteen, one minute or fifteen minutes of time in there.

00:26:32 Dr. Amy Grimm: Yeah. And, and as a reminder to anybody who feels that way, you know, like they don't have enough time or it's difficult to find the time. What I always love to say is that rest is a strategy. You know, it's not something you earn based on how much you've done. You know, even if you decide I need to finish, you know, this list of emails and reply to them before I take a break. That's just an arbitrary thing that your brain has decided might make it okay for you to take a break when you're done with the emails. But in reality, once you're done with the emails, your brain is going to say, oh, you know what? Now you actually need to start working on that presentation. And it's still not going to let you take a break. So it's really up to you to interrupt that and say, you know what? Like rest is actually a strategy for sustainable performance. And if I don't want to run myself into the ground, then I need to make the intentional decision to take care of myself in this moment.

00:27:41 Speaker 5: Of course, of course.

00:27:43 Sana: Um, Amy, before we wrap up, um, if our listeners, I'm very sure they would love to connect with you, um, maybe they would have their own experiences, His thoughts or opinions. Or maybe they would like to connect with you to seek more wisdom for this. So what would be the easiest way?

00:28:05 Dr. Amy Grimm: Yeah, yeah. Thank you Sana. Um, if anybody would like to connect with me, um, you can find me by my name, doctor Amy Grimm on LinkedIn and then burnout. Free me on Instagram. Those are the two places that I hang out the most. And if you want to join my email list, then you can just come to my website, which is devmail.com, and you can sign up for the weekly newsletter. That's where you'll get all kinds of weekly insights and inspiration about healthier, more aligned living and how to stop feeling like you're running on fumes and actually create that intentional, fulfilling, joyful life that you want.

00:28:53 Sana: Amazing. Um, listeners, you heard it from Doctor Remy. And what I'll do is I'll mention all the links in the show notes. Reach out to Doctor Remy. And, um, I think, you know, listeners, if your nervous system has been carrying too much for too long, I just want to say this plainly. It it does make sense that you are tired. It makes sense that your body is louder than your mind right now. And, and you don't have to earn support by burning out enough. If this episode helped you feel seen even a little, do follow the mindful living. Not for motivation, not for hustle, but because we are. We are trying to build a space where you can come back to yourself, one honest conversation at a time. And you can also share this episode with someone who is capable, responsible, but quietly exhausted. The person who keeps saying, I'm fine, a little too fast. And Amy, thank you so, so much. It was such a nuanced and refreshing conversation, specifically on nervous system regulation. I really appreciate that you brought up for for all of us, honest and usable.

00:30:14 Dr. Amy Grimm: Oh, thank you so much, Sana. It was such a pleasure being here. I really appreciate you having this conversation with me.

00:30:23 Sana: Amazing, amazing. So listeners, take a breath before you go. Unclench your jaw, drop your shoulders. And remember, regulation isn't a personality upgrade. It's a return path. It's homecoming. Back to choice, back to connection, back to agency, back to your life. You can actually feel. Until next time. This is mindful living. I'm Sana and I will catch you in the next episode. Take care.