1 00:00:00,540 --> 00:00:04,740 The reason I stress so hard that personality and brand personalities need to be 2 00:00:04,940 --> 00:00:08,440 flexible is because we don't have one why. 3 00:00:08,980 --> 00:00:11,220 There's not one reason why people are buying. 4 00:00:23,680 --> 00:00:27,700 Well, hello and welcome to another edition of the eCommerce Evolution Podcast. 5 00:00:27,800 --> 00:00:31,060 I'm your host, Brett Curry, CEO of OMG Commerce. 6 00:00:31,640 --> 00:00:35,840 And today I am absolutely thrilled to welcome to the show Nate 7 00:00:36,200 --> 00:00:40,380 Lagos. We are talking all things better creative, 8 00:00:40,440 --> 00:00:44,320 better storytelling, better copywriting, knowing your customers better, 9 00:00:44,460 --> 00:00:48,840 better branding and positioning. How does that fit into performance marketing? 10 00:00:49,540 --> 00:00:52,040 This guy is an absolute legend. 11 00:00:52,420 --> 00:00:56,320 We met when he was serving his head of growth at Original Grain, 12 00:00:56,780 --> 00:01:01,440 saw them through tremendous amounts of growth. Now he's a CMO of Adapt Naturals. 13 00:01:01,520 --> 00:01:03,900 We're working together and loving it. 14 00:01:03,980 --> 00:01:07,460 And so he's also the host of the Tactical and Practical Marketing Podcast. 15 00:01:07,520 --> 00:01:11,320 Check it out, one of my favorite follows on X. So with that, 16 00:01:11,780 --> 00:01:14,700 Nate Lagos, what's up, Nate? Welcome to the show. And how's it going, man? 17 00:01:14,920 --> 00:01:19,240 Brett, thanks so much for having me. Man, it's going good. 18 00:01:19,780 --> 00:01:22,360 The year's off to a busy but hot start. 19 00:01:22,460 --> 00:01:24,900 I'm excited to get into what we've been working on. 20 00:01:25,660 --> 00:01:30,021 Totally. And this is for the supplement and health space. 21 00:01:30,361 --> 00:01:33,601 This is go time for you. And I know you guys, 22 00:01:34,141 --> 00:01:36,401 you really hit the ground running when you joined Adapt, 23 00:01:36,480 --> 00:01:39,061 and so excited to see how that's progressing. 24 00:01:39,181 --> 00:01:39,441 Yeah. 25 00:01:39,441 --> 00:01:43,941 Definitely. So yeah, man, want to get practical here, 26 00:01:44,321 --> 00:01:46,501 just like your podcast. But before we do, 27 00:01:46,581 --> 00:01:48,521 I think it'd be really interesting to one set the stage. 28 00:01:49,401 --> 00:01:53,081 So we met when you had a growth at Original Grain. 29 00:01:53,561 --> 00:01:55,661 Feel free to talk about any of the experiences there because that was just 30 00:01:55,941 --> 00:01:59,321 tremendous growth. But then we really got to know each other. 31 00:01:59,421 --> 00:02:01,981 We both spoke at the same event in New York City, Digital Growth, 32 00:02:02,221 --> 00:02:07,041 not Digital Growth, D2C Growth Summit. Shout out to our buddy, Johnny Hickey, 33 00:02:07,101 --> 00:02:10,781 what's up? And we both spoke there, got to know each other a little bit. 34 00:02:11,421 --> 00:02:16,141 You walked on stage before me and you were wearing a cowboy hat, 35 00:02:16,261 --> 00:02:20,181 great look and aviators. This is a choice. 36 00:02:21,441 --> 00:02:22,274 And you're like, "Hey guys, 37 00:02:22,921 --> 00:02:27,501 I'm using notes here and wearing aviators because I got bucked off a bull and 38 00:02:27,981 --> 00:02:31,221 I have a concussion." We're like, "What?" First of all, 39 00:02:31,281 --> 00:02:32,921 that's the coolest intro ever. 40 00:02:33,101 --> 00:02:35,681 I've thought about just doing that even though it wouldn't be true, 41 00:02:35,761 --> 00:02:39,461 just to see what kind of reactions I would get. But tell us about that. 42 00:02:39,521 --> 00:02:44,201 So you write bulls in your spare time and how did you perform such a good talk 43 00:02:44,581 --> 00:02:45,761 while concussed? Yeah. 44 00:02:45,821 --> 00:02:45,961 And do. 45 00:02:45,961 --> 00:02:46,881 You have a concussion right now? 46 00:02:47,401 --> 00:02:51,021 No, I'm not concussed now. I can tell you, 47 00:02:51,081 --> 00:02:55,341 these ribs still hurt from that injury, but the brain has bounced back. 48 00:02:56,021 --> 00:02:57,681 We're good there. No, 49 00:02:57,761 --> 00:03:01,902 but the reason that all came together was because I wrote the presentation 50 00:03:01,962 --> 00:03:06,402 before I went bull riding. So the notes were good, 51 00:03:06,462 --> 00:03:10,162 the deck was good. Everything was locked in. Sunday, I was like, 52 00:03:11,002 --> 00:03:15,482 let me buck some bulls. First one bucked me off, stepped on me, 53 00:03:15,642 --> 00:03:18,682 broke three ribs, but I was like, "I can do better. 54 00:03:18,802 --> 00:03:22,862 Let me get one more in quick." Landed directly on my head, 55 00:03:22,962 --> 00:03:23,862 concussed pretty bad. 56 00:03:24,182 --> 00:03:28,622 So that was Sunday and then hopped on a plane Tuesday for that conference. 57 00:03:28,762 --> 00:03:29,542 That's crazy, man. 58 00:03:29,542 --> 00:03:32,622 That's crazy. Yeah. Kudos to you, you really couldn't tell. It was great. 59 00:03:33,582 --> 00:03:37,882 And you broke down storytelling and what you did at 60 00:03:38,402 --> 00:03:40,382 Original Grain, which we got to observe that. 61 00:03:40,462 --> 00:03:44,142 I know the founders love that brand. Just tremendous growth there. 62 00:03:45,222 --> 00:03:49,322 But let's dive into that a little bit. Let's talk about copy and storytelling. 63 00:03:49,422 --> 00:03:50,602 I want to talk brand. 64 00:03:50,662 --> 00:03:53,442 I want to talk knowing your customers and a few other things. But 65 00:03:55,382 --> 00:03:59,362 how do you approach storytelling and copywriting in general? 66 00:03:59,422 --> 00:04:04,282 Because you're more gifted than most at that. 67 00:04:04,622 --> 00:04:07,002 So I'd love to just know, what is your approach? 68 00:04:07,882 --> 00:04:11,302 Yeah. Copy was something I slept on early in my career. 69 00:04:12,802 --> 00:04:16,462 I became a CMO at 24 of a company called Dugout Mugs, 70 00:04:16,602 --> 00:04:21,482 made baseball themed barware. I didn't do any copywriting there. I mean, 71 00:04:21,542 --> 00:04:25,102 sorry, I was writing copy. It was not thoughtful. None of it was good. 72 00:04:25,942 --> 00:04:30,403 But we had a super unique product. We tested offers a bunch, 73 00:04:30,463 --> 00:04:31,563 saw good growth there. 74 00:04:32,363 --> 00:04:37,203 But it wasn't really until I got to Original Grain that I felt the need and got 75 00:04:37,263 --> 00:04:39,943 into storytelling as a performance lever. 76 00:04:41,143 --> 00:04:44,063 When you look at a watch made out of wood, 77 00:04:44,543 --> 00:04:47,843 there's a bunch of different ways you can sell it. 78 00:04:48,843 --> 00:04:51,183 When I tried selling it as a watch made out of wood, 79 00:04:52,023 --> 00:04:55,043 didn't go over that well. I can't- Would. 80 00:04:55,103 --> 00:04:56,563 You like a watch made out of wood? 81 00:04:56,623 --> 00:04:58,843 Yeah. I can't tell someone like, "Hey, do you know wood? 82 00:04:59,000 --> 00:05:03,003 Do you know the thing that's the most renewable and cheapest resource on earth?" 83 00:05:03,683 --> 00:05:06,200 Yeah, we put it in a watch and we're going to sell it to you for $300. 84 00:05:07,243 --> 00:05:08,123 Everyone's like, "Eh, no.". 85 00:05:08,943 --> 00:05:09,623 No, thanks. 86 00:05:09,623 --> 00:05:14,043 But when we start to get into the stories behind the materials our watches were 87 00:05:14,083 --> 00:05:16,643 made from, and I started to tell you that this isn't just wood. 88 00:05:17,083 --> 00:05:21,663 This was a tree that was planted likely in the late 1800s and 89 00:05:21,743 --> 00:05:25,483 grew for 70 years. And then it was chopped down, harvested. 90 00:05:26,003 --> 00:05:29,643 It was turned into a whiskey barrel where a master distiller filled it and it 91 00:05:29,763 --> 00:05:31,663 aged the whiskey for another decade. 92 00:05:31,723 --> 00:05:35,763 And then we got it and cut it and plained it and sanded it and inlaid it into 93 00:05:35,803 --> 00:05:36,303 your watch. 94 00:05:36,303 --> 00:05:41,103 So now you can carry a piece of American and whiskey history on your 95 00:05:41,743 --> 00:05:45,400 wrist, then you're going to buy that for 300. 96 00:05:47,040 --> 00:05:49,003 And made me feel like you're getting a steal. 97 00:05:49,203 --> 00:05:50,036 At that 100%. Yeah. 98 00:05:50,920 --> 00:05:55,763 And that really kind of opened my eyes to the power of words and 99 00:05:56,023 --> 00:05:57,784 I have not slowed down on it. 100 00:05:57,863 --> 00:06:02,424 Copy and message testing was like the first thing I did at Adapt. 101 00:06:02,604 --> 00:06:06,764 I still joke with the team internally that CMO stands for chief messaging 102 00:06:06,824 --> 00:06:10,464 officer because that's what I try to spend the most time on, 103 00:06:11,124 --> 00:06:12,844 but it's been crazy powerful. 104 00:06:12,904 --> 00:06:16,424 The performance gains we've had from it haven't stopped yet. 105 00:06:17,344 --> 00:06:19,184 Yeah. I love it, man. 106 00:06:19,484 --> 00:06:24,304 And I like studying some of the classics and some of the greats in 107 00:06:24,364 --> 00:06:27,564 marketing. I just reread Ogleview & Advertising, 108 00:06:27,624 --> 00:06:31,004 which is a classic kind of skimmed through again, 109 00:06:31,804 --> 00:06:36,344 My Life in Advertising and Scientific Advertising by Cables, I believe it was. 110 00:06:36,484 --> 00:06:38,844 And then one of those guys, I can't remember which one, 111 00:06:39,040 --> 00:06:43,964 but talked about advertising for Schlitz Beer and how they really 112 00:06:44,024 --> 00:06:48,224 grew market share for that beer company by talking about the Artisan Wells and 113 00:06:49,824 --> 00:06:52,124 the way they treated the bottles and the way they went through the brewing 114 00:06:52,144 --> 00:06:54,864 process. And turns out it was actually the way that everybody did it, 115 00:06:54,964 --> 00:06:58,464 but they just told the story better for that time. It fit that time. 116 00:06:58,524 --> 00:06:59,344 I know it might not fit now. 117 00:06:59,344 --> 00:07:02,744 Now we just need to show sports or girls or whatever to sell beer. 118 00:07:02,920 --> 00:07:05,864 But it worked at that time. It was a brilliantly told story, 119 00:07:06,124 --> 00:07:09,144 even though anybody could have told it and it sold a lot of beer. 120 00:07:09,584 --> 00:07:14,524 And so it's like taking some of those classic timeless things. 121 00:07:14,584 --> 00:07:16,804 Humans have been telling stories forever, 122 00:07:17,684 --> 00:07:20,944 but channeling that for good marketing. So 123 00:07:22,684 --> 00:07:27,504 yeah, walk through some of the ways you approached it from Original Grain. 124 00:07:27,584 --> 00:07:30,785 Was it just understanding the story? 125 00:07:30,925 --> 00:07:35,085 Was it understanding the customer first? Was it a lot of trial and error to see, 126 00:07:35,145 --> 00:07:37,685 okay, this angle works, that angle falls flat? 127 00:07:38,145 --> 00:07:39,045 Probably a little bit of all of that. 128 00:07:39,625 --> 00:07:43,205 Yeah. It started early on there. I was not a watch guy. 129 00:07:43,565 --> 00:07:46,685 I walked into that brand, never having owned a watch, 130 00:07:46,825 --> 00:07:49,305 never wanting to get into that world. 131 00:07:49,805 --> 00:07:49,965 But. 132 00:07:49,965 --> 00:07:53,985 It sucked me in and it's grabbed me now. But early on, 133 00:07:54,325 --> 00:07:57,945 I was asking simple questions about the industry like, why do watches exist? 134 00:07:58,245 --> 00:08:00,765 Why does someone buy a watch today? 135 00:08:01,185 --> 00:08:05,905 And I quickly found out the answer was not so they know what time it is. Right. 136 00:08:05,985 --> 00:08:06,645 Got a phone. 137 00:08:06,645 --> 00:08:07,478 For that. 138 00:08:07,565 --> 00:08:12,200 That is reason 99 out of a hundred why someone could buy a watch. 139 00:08:12,440 --> 00:08:16,680 But I started to learn from industry research, 140 00:08:16,960 --> 00:08:21,440 from some customer surveys that the men who are buying the watches for 141 00:08:21,680 --> 00:08:25,480 themselves are buying it as a status symbol. 142 00:08:25,720 --> 00:08:27,720 They want to be respected by their tribe. 143 00:08:27,840 --> 00:08:31,280 And if you're in a conference like we are, 144 00:08:31,860 --> 00:08:34,080 status in that room is a Rolex. 145 00:08:34,780 --> 00:08:38,700 But if you're a blue collar guy who's known as the whiskey guy in his group's 146 00:08:40,000 --> 00:08:42,000 status in that group is not a Rolex, 147 00:08:42,280 --> 00:08:45,360 it's an original grain watch in laid with whiskey barrel wood. 148 00:08:45,520 --> 00:08:47,800 So that was really eye-opening. 149 00:08:49,885 --> 00:08:51,205 When I buy this product, 150 00:08:51,215 --> 00:08:55,920 what does it say about me and what does it say about me to the people I want to 151 00:08:55,920 --> 00:08:59,240 impress? 100%. With the people I'm around. Yeah. 100% super. 152 00:08:59,240 --> 00:09:00,000 Interesting. Yeah. 153 00:09:00,000 --> 00:09:03,960 And then I quickly found out that over half our customers were women and we only 154 00:09:04,080 --> 00:09:07,080 sold men's watches. And I was like, "What is going on? 155 00:09:07,840 --> 00:09:12,720 " And the reason that they were buying for the men in their lives 156 00:09:13,040 --> 00:09:15,400 was most commonly it was the wife of 157 00:09:17,000 --> 00:09:18,680 that blue collar hardworking guy. 158 00:09:19,680 --> 00:09:24,640 And she very visibly sees all he does to sacrifice for the family. 159 00:09:24,880 --> 00:09:28,560 She knows he gets up early, works late, works hard, 160 00:09:29,000 --> 00:09:31,680 and has sacrificed a lot to provide for his family. 161 00:09:31,840 --> 00:09:36,760 And these women we found didn't have a way to reciprocate 162 00:09:36,920 --> 00:09:37,360 that. 163 00:09:37,360 --> 00:09:42,280 They didn't have a way to show him that they appreciate and value 164 00:09:42,480 --> 00:09:46,000 and are so grateful for everything he does for them. 165 00:09:46,240 --> 00:09:49,866 So our messaging changed drastically around gift giving 166 00:09:52,520 --> 00:09:55,410 times where we didn't start saying like, "Hey, 167 00:09:55,760 --> 00:09:57,786 if your husband likes whiskey, 168 00:09:58,006 --> 00:10:01,046 get him this watch." These wives don't like how much their husband drinks 169 00:10:01,546 --> 00:10:04,906 already. They're not trying to reinforce that behavior. 170 00:10:04,966 --> 00:10:08,446 But when we changed the message to say, "Show your. 171 00:10:08,506 --> 00:10:12,560 Man-" Which does feel like that would be an angle you should test, right? 100%. 172 00:10:12,800 --> 00:10:15,826 These are men that love Whiskey and are your whiskey fan. 173 00:10:17,206 --> 00:10:20,506 I love it too, although it doesn't agree with me, so I almost never drink it, 174 00:10:20,826 --> 00:10:23,366 but it's great. So you think, "Oh, 175 00:10:23,426 --> 00:10:26,966 that's a good angle." But actually it turns out that's not the reason they buy. 176 00:10:27,047 --> 00:10:29,967 And so you got to dig deeper, which is what you found out. Yeah. 177 00:10:30,487 --> 00:10:34,047 So when we changed the messaging from like, "Hey, with you guys, love this. 178 00:10:34,107 --> 00:10:38,727 It's a great gift for them." We changed it to show your man he's worth every 179 00:10:38,847 --> 00:10:42,027 second with a gift as rugged and dependable as he is. 180 00:10:42,087 --> 00:10:45,507 Conversion rate went crazy, AOV went up. 181 00:10:45,767 --> 00:10:50,387 And then we were actually able to raise our prices without seeing a decrease in 182 00:10:50,427 --> 00:10:53,067 conversion rate because we weren't just selling a watch anymore. 183 00:10:53,487 --> 00:10:54,927 We were selling a token, 184 00:10:54,987 --> 00:10:58,967 a physical expression of love and appreciation, 185 00:10:59,307 --> 00:11:03,487 which people are willing to spend more money on than a piece of metal in wood. 186 00:11:04,787 --> 00:11:06,127 Yeah. It's so good, man. 187 00:11:06,267 --> 00:11:11,167 And now you've flipped it where it's not what is this watch 188 00:11:11,287 --> 00:11:12,120 worth, 189 00:11:12,227 --> 00:11:16,947 it's what is my man worth to me and how much am I willing to show him? 190 00:11:17,447 --> 00:11:20,467 I remember my dad, I got a motorcycle when I was in high school. 191 00:11:20,547 --> 00:11:24,387 He'd ridden when he was younger, but got a new motorcycle. 192 00:11:24,527 --> 00:11:27,687 And I happened to be with him and my stepmom. 193 00:11:27,767 --> 00:11:31,827 They were buying a helmet and the salesman was so brilliant. 194 00:11:31,907 --> 00:11:32,567 The salesman was like, 195 00:11:32,567 --> 00:11:35,527 "We got these helmets and these helmets." And so you look at it and you're like, 196 00:11:35,587 --> 00:11:37,147 "Well, I'm comparing plastic, right? 197 00:11:37,207 --> 00:11:39,667 Is this plastic better than that plastic?" And so he started showing like, 198 00:11:39,867 --> 00:11:41,807 "Well, this is like the $700 helmet, 199 00:11:41,907 --> 00:11:44,687 this is the $200 helmet." And my stepmom was like, 200 00:11:45,267 --> 00:11:47,747 "What's the difference?" And so he told us and he's like, 201 00:11:47,807 --> 00:11:49,767 "I guess it just depends on what you think your head is worth." 202 00:11:52,407 --> 00:11:53,240 And then he stopped. 203 00:11:53,267 --> 00:11:56,048 And what's hilarious because money really wasn't like an issue, 204 00:11:56,387 --> 00:11:59,648 but it is until you know. So then they bought the expensive one. So I was like, 205 00:11:59,848 --> 00:12:02,908 "Yeah, that's a good point. My head's probably pretty valuable." So yeah. 206 00:12:03,150 --> 00:12:03,983 100%. 207 00:12:04,168 --> 00:12:08,868 What are you putting the value on and what is someone really buying because that 208 00:12:08,908 --> 00:12:09,908 can shift the whole game. 209 00:12:10,008 --> 00:12:10,720 For sure. Yeah. 210 00:12:10,720 --> 00:12:15,148 And I've seen very little evidence that customers are price sensitive. 211 00:12:15,488 --> 00:12:19,228 I think they're value sensitive. Everyone gets that wrong. 212 00:12:19,288 --> 00:12:22,648 That's why everyone just results into discounting a ton, 213 00:12:23,168 --> 00:12:27,428 but we've found such big gains that just being better at communicating the value 214 00:12:27,508 --> 00:12:30,488 of the product with written and visual content. 215 00:12:31,208 --> 00:12:34,528 Yeah. Yeah. What is your take? Because what's interesting, 216 00:12:34,588 --> 00:12:36,848 the reason I wanted to do this episode, well, a few reasons. One, 217 00:12:37,308 --> 00:12:38,988 you're fascinating to get to talk to, so I was interested in that. 218 00:12:39,368 --> 00:12:42,388 But I listened to a ton of podcasts in our space, 219 00:12:42,848 --> 00:12:44,428 listened to all the big ones for D2C. 220 00:12:45,248 --> 00:12:49,548 Almost everybody's talking about creative volume and creative velocity and 221 00:12:49,608 --> 00:12:52,328 creative diversity, all of which I believe are important. 222 00:12:52,768 --> 00:12:56,508 Those function differently for Meta versus YouTube versus other channels. 223 00:12:56,988 --> 00:13:01,148 But what I hear less people talking about is just understanding what are we 224 00:13:01,428 --> 00:13:06,148 saying and how are we approaching storytelling and how are we positioning this 225 00:13:06,208 --> 00:13:07,041 product? 226 00:13:07,288 --> 00:13:12,068 And so how do you think looking at just good copy and your approach to good 227 00:13:12,108 --> 00:13:16,528 copy, how does that impact or how does that translate into diversity, volume, 228 00:13:16,588 --> 00:13:17,328 velocity? 229 00:13:17,328 --> 00:13:18,028 Yeah. 230 00:13:18,028 --> 00:13:22,968 I'm not a believer in creative volume to unlock scale on Meta. 231 00:13:23,568 --> 00:13:25,608 We actually just ran a test the last few weeks. 232 00:13:26,088 --> 00:13:28,669 We cut the amount of creative we launched on Meta in half. 233 00:13:29,509 --> 00:13:33,409 In that time we were able to increase spend by 25% while improving our aimer. 234 00:13:33,989 --> 00:13:38,789 So I find more success being more accurate and aiming for 235 00:13:38,849 --> 00:13:40,489 quality over everything. 236 00:13:41,349 --> 00:13:44,209 I don't really believe in the concept of ad fatigue. 237 00:13:45,069 --> 00:13:49,629 Coke has been running the polar bears for 40 years. 238 00:13:49,849 --> 00:13:52,869 Kit Kat has that song stuck in my head since I was eight. 239 00:13:53,689 --> 00:13:55,709 I think great ads resonate with people. 240 00:13:55,769 --> 00:13:58,809 Geico's always been saving us 15% or more on car insurance. Always. 241 00:13:59,169 --> 00:14:02,669 When you have messages and symbols and content that work, 242 00:14:02,929 --> 00:14:07,889 I think the way to build a profitable advertising program and a 243 00:14:08,409 --> 00:14:12,909 brand that people like and remember and gravitate towards takes 244 00:14:12,969 --> 00:14:13,802 repetition. 245 00:14:14,049 --> 00:14:18,389 So I like to hone in on messages that can do both, 246 00:14:18,909 --> 00:14:20,969 that can increase sales today, 247 00:14:21,549 --> 00:14:26,309 but also start to build positive affinity between how people see you 248 00:14:26,509 --> 00:14:29,989 and the experience they have once they get your products. 249 00:14:30,529 --> 00:14:33,809 So with that said, I don't want to launch a hundred ads this week. 250 00:14:34,529 --> 00:14:39,169 I want to launch seven that do a really good job at communicating our value, 251 00:14:39,229 --> 00:14:43,469 that do a really good job of hitting the right customers when they are ready to 252 00:14:43,549 --> 00:14:48,449 buy and running different versions of that over and over and over throughout 253 00:14:48,829 --> 00:14:51,089 the year. And in doing that, 254 00:14:51,149 --> 00:14:55,190 I've seen multiple individual ads that can spend seven figures a year without 255 00:14:55,229 --> 00:14:56,150 ever fatiguing. 256 00:14:56,949 --> 00:15:01,770 And I've seen us be able to build efficient in- house creative 257 00:15:01,810 --> 00:15:04,310 teams where the goal is not a hundred ads a week. 258 00:15:04,410 --> 00:15:08,670 The goal is how many great ads can we make? If we can make 12 great ones, 259 00:15:09,050 --> 00:15:12,690 awesome. If we can make 30, cool. But if we can only make four, 260 00:15:13,330 --> 00:15:17,890 I'd rather four excellent ads that speak to the right people at the right moment 261 00:15:17,970 --> 00:15:21,990 in their lives in order to get them to buy. 262 00:15:23,210 --> 00:15:23,670 Yeah. 263 00:15:23,670 --> 00:15:28,570 And I think creative velocity and diversity means different things to different 264 00:15:28,590 --> 00:15:30,670 brands at different levels of scale, right? 265 00:15:30,730 --> 00:15:34,950 But I think there's also some element of ... I love 266 00:15:38,530 --> 00:15:39,590 the Oracle of Omaha, 267 00:15:41,170 --> 00:15:45,730 his quote that diversity is only important if you don't know what you're doing, 268 00:15:45,950 --> 00:15:50,470 right? Which it doesn't fully translate here, but it sort of does. 269 00:15:50,850 --> 00:15:55,530 Maybe the reason you need so much philosophy or so much volume is because a lot 270 00:15:55,550 --> 00:15:57,350 of what you're putting out there sucks. 271 00:15:57,410 --> 00:16:02,230 Get better and then you can probably cut that volume down and find 272 00:16:02,430 --> 00:16:07,070 some real wins. And I think that begins with good storytelling. And so 273 00:16:08,910 --> 00:16:09,743 that's phenomenal. 274 00:16:09,890 --> 00:16:14,750 So can you talk a little bit about how do you understand what a customer is 275 00:16:14,810 --> 00:16:18,010 actually buying or what they want and would love to hear how you're maybe doing 276 00:16:18,030 --> 00:16:22,150 that at Adapt Naturals. Is that survey based? 277 00:16:22,210 --> 00:16:25,931 Is that just we're testing ads and angles and seeing what the results are? 278 00:16:26,430 --> 00:16:30,051 How are you honing in on this is what someone is actually buying? 279 00:16:30,771 --> 00:16:34,211 Little bit of everything, little bit of surveys and research, 280 00:16:34,551 --> 00:16:38,631 little bit of testing new messages and seeing how they respond. 281 00:16:39,071 --> 00:16:43,551 The most impactful thing I've done is hire Sarah Levener, 282 00:16:43,671 --> 00:16:47,871 who's a customer research, I don't know, researcher, analyst, 283 00:16:48,631 --> 00:16:53,391 but she's awesome. And she really opened my eyes a couple years ago 284 00:16:55,271 --> 00:16:58,691 to understand the real reasons why people were buying. And to be honest, 285 00:16:58,751 --> 00:17:01,731 it made me uncomfortable because it exposed some stuff in my purchasing behavior 286 00:17:01,811 --> 00:17:02,871 that I didn't really want to know. 287 00:17:04,551 --> 00:17:08,911 I got Chick-fil-A delivered to the house today because I'm stressed and needed a 288 00:17:08,971 --> 00:17:11,031 little quick, convenient comfort. 289 00:17:11,431 --> 00:17:14,171 It's comfort food, dude. Chick-fil-A, it's comfort food, 290 00:17:14,231 --> 00:17:16,931 but you can still function afterwards. I eat a Chick-fil-A sandwich. 291 00:17:17,511 --> 00:17:19,911 It's not health food, but I still feel okay enough. 292 00:17:20,451 --> 00:17:22,491 Yeah. It's better than Taco Bell, which is what I really. 293 00:17:22,531 --> 00:17:23,671 Want. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. 294 00:17:24,691 --> 00:17:28,691 My last cowboy hat I bought because I was 295 00:17:29,311 --> 00:17:32,351 insecure and felt like I deserved something that I hadn't gotten. 296 00:17:32,531 --> 00:17:33,364 You. 297 00:17:33,951 --> 00:17:38,911 And that sucks when you look at that for yourself and 298 00:17:38,931 --> 00:17:40,911 you can stop yourself from making some bad purchases. 299 00:17:40,971 --> 00:17:42,771 You want to be like, "No, that's why other people buy. 300 00:17:43,031 --> 00:17:43,864 I buy just. 301 00:17:43,931 --> 00:17:44,764 Value.". 302 00:17:45,231 --> 00:17:45,631 Yeah. 303 00:17:45,631 --> 00:17:50,131 I bought a new watch as soon as I left OG because I'm insecure and wanted to 304 00:17:50,191 --> 00:17:51,024 feel better. 305 00:17:52,312 --> 00:17:57,232 But uncovering the real reasons why people were purchasing allow us 306 00:17:57,272 --> 00:18:00,272 to create ads that speak to what they really feel, 307 00:18:00,812 --> 00:18:02,012 not just what they say they want. 308 00:18:03,092 --> 00:18:03,925 Because. 309 00:18:04,272 --> 00:18:07,512 When we ask customers directly, 310 00:18:08,672 --> 00:18:13,112 they will tell you the reason they bought after they've justified it and 311 00:18:13,172 --> 00:18:14,612 rationalized it to themselves. 312 00:18:15,532 --> 00:18:18,792 No one walks into the Rolex store and says, "Hey, 313 00:18:19,432 --> 00:18:21,092 I'm deeply insecure. 314 00:18:21,952 --> 00:18:26,512 I would like the people in my circle to know that I am financially successful. 315 00:18:26,572 --> 00:18:28,432 Do you have anything for me? 316 00:18:28,800 --> 00:18:33,092 " Yeah, I've got a significance issue. I want other people to respect me. 317 00:18:33,772 --> 00:18:35,012 That's why I'm buying this. Yeah. Yeah. 318 00:18:35,512 --> 00:18:40,072 So that's why you have to do a mix of surveying. 319 00:18:40,352 --> 00:18:42,372 We scrape Reddit for insights. 320 00:18:43,032 --> 00:18:47,672 We run all of our customer reviews through a series of prompts to figure out 321 00:18:47,712 --> 00:18:50,812 what they're actually feeling, not just what they're saying. 322 00:18:52,092 --> 00:18:56,752 And then the last part of it that I think everyone misses is when you're testing 323 00:18:56,772 --> 00:19:00,292 copy and messaging, that's a two-way conversation. 324 00:19:00,352 --> 00:19:04,412 The customers just don't talk back. They either buy things or they 325 00:19:06,232 --> 00:19:11,212 don't. And one of the big examples for this is at 326 00:19:11,312 --> 00:19:15,212 Original Grain, we started to talk about guys who were building their legacy, 327 00:19:15,372 --> 00:19:17,092 guys who were carving their own path. 328 00:19:18,512 --> 00:19:21,533 No one in their right mind would open up a conversation with, "Hey, 329 00:19:21,592 --> 00:19:24,693 I'm Nate and I really care about my legacy." Or, 330 00:19:24,793 --> 00:19:28,513 "I bought this wash because I care about my legacy." No one's talking like that. 331 00:19:29,053 --> 00:19:33,213 But when we put out messaging that spoke to that and we saw conversion rate of 332 00:19:33,293 --> 00:19:36,813 our mail buyers go crazy, we thought, oh, they care about that. 333 00:19:37,413 --> 00:19:39,873 They might not know it, they might not admit it, 334 00:19:40,313 --> 00:19:44,213 but talking about that is going to make them purchase more. 335 00:19:45,033 --> 00:19:46,933 Yeah. Yeah. It's so good, man. 336 00:19:47,393 --> 00:19:52,013 I worked with a pretty large jewelry store for a long time early on in my 337 00:19:52,053 --> 00:19:55,993 career, did all their marketing for over a decade. And when I first started, 338 00:19:56,293 --> 00:19:57,213 I wasn't a fan of jewelry. 339 00:19:57,513 --> 00:19:59,453 I just thought it was a waste of money and kind of silly. 340 00:19:59,553 --> 00:20:03,373 So I'm surprised I got the gig. But as I got in, 341 00:20:03,693 --> 00:20:07,293 I started understanding one, when people wear jewelry, 342 00:20:07,773 --> 00:20:12,433 they feel better about themselves. And so my wife, when she wears jewelry, 343 00:20:12,493 --> 00:20:14,193 I'm sure she feels better about herself. Also, 344 00:20:14,413 --> 00:20:16,473 I started to understand that for me as a guy, 345 00:20:17,133 --> 00:20:20,280 I feel better about myself when I buy my wife nice jewelry. 100%. 346 00:20:20,520 --> 00:20:24,213 I want people to not only see how beautiful she is, 347 00:20:24,273 --> 00:20:28,553 but maybe to know that I'm successful. I started to understand, maybe that's why 348 00:20:29,053 --> 00:20:31,053 I'm motivated to buy this is super interesting. 349 00:20:31,553 --> 00:20:33,573 But then also you start to look at some of the reasons, 350 00:20:33,633 --> 00:20:35,473 and I heard some of these people talk about it like, "Hey, 351 00:20:35,673 --> 00:20:40,533 I'm buying this for my daughter because she'll get to keep it and 352 00:20:40,593 --> 00:20:44,313 pass it down to future generations." So I think that's true, 353 00:20:44,533 --> 00:20:47,653 that's the logical piece, but then it's also probably that, yeah, 354 00:20:47,753 --> 00:20:52,493 but I want to look successful too in the process. So really interesting. 355 00:20:52,633 --> 00:20:55,173 And then I like you, really the why I became a jewelry fan, 356 00:20:55,254 --> 00:20:57,873 so I buy jewelry pretty frequently buy for my daughters and stuff like that too. 357 00:20:57,894 --> 00:20:58,727 As well. 358 00:20:59,354 --> 00:21:04,074 I bought a nice car when I was 26 and I told 359 00:21:04,114 --> 00:21:07,274 myself beforehand, I was like, "Hey, I'm not going to post this on Instagram. 360 00:21:07,574 --> 00:21:10,114 I'm not going to put it on Twitter.This is not a flex. 361 00:21:10,194 --> 00:21:11,954 I'm buying it because I want it. 362 00:21:12,200 --> 00:21:16,474 " But that doesn't stop me from feeling good about myself when I go meet people 363 00:21:16,534 --> 00:21:17,794 in town and I step out of. 364 00:21:17,834 --> 00:21:18,594 That. Totally. And it's. 365 00:21:18,594 --> 00:21:20,174 Like, all right, it's still kind of a flex. 366 00:21:20,314 --> 00:21:24,274 I was trying not to be a huge D-bag about it, but a little bit still. 367 00:21:25,960 --> 00:21:26,000 And. 368 00:21:26,000 --> 00:21:27,934 Then I brought it up on a podcast, so I. 369 00:21:28,314 --> 00:21:33,274 Just ... So funny. But yeah, then you start to understand, 370 00:21:33,334 --> 00:21:36,154 okay, so this is maybe what's at the root of it. 371 00:21:37,134 --> 00:21:41,174 This is maybe the reason that people are willing to talk about why they buy. 372 00:21:41,734 --> 00:21:42,914 So let me appeal to both. 373 00:21:43,434 --> 00:21:46,894 Let me appeal to all of that and then my ads and from different angles and 374 00:21:46,914 --> 00:21:50,374 things like that. And so awesome. 375 00:21:50,514 --> 00:21:55,134 Let's talk a little bit about brand. And I'm a huge believer. 376 00:21:55,294 --> 00:22:00,254 You said this earlier where you like to run ads that get results 377 00:22:00,354 --> 00:22:03,834 now, but they also build someone's brand. I've always been a huge fan of that. 378 00:22:03,914 --> 00:22:08,134 Some people call it brand formants where it's like I'm telling stories, 379 00:22:08,634 --> 00:22:11,194 I'm moving people to take action. 380 00:22:12,054 --> 00:22:15,914 I'm getting a direct response. I'm likely a decent ROI now, 381 00:22:15,974 --> 00:22:20,454 but I'm also building a brand into the future. How do you view brand? 382 00:22:20,534 --> 00:22:23,835 Because I heard one of your podcasts recently where you talk about, "Hey, 383 00:22:23,895 --> 00:22:27,695 this is maybe a way to think about brand." So talk about that. 384 00:22:27,754 --> 00:22:29,275 Talk about that maybe from a performance lens, 385 00:22:29,955 --> 00:22:33,215 but what's your reframe of branding? Hey, 386 00:22:33,275 --> 00:22:35,235 thanks again for tuning in to the eCommerce Evolution Podcast. 387 00:22:35,295 --> 00:22:38,115 I want to take just a minute and talk about my agency, OMG commerce. 388 00:22:38,775 --> 00:22:42,515 We've been helping e-commerce brands for 15 years, 389 00:22:42,855 --> 00:22:44,955 and that's like a hundred e-commerce years. 390 00:22:45,435 --> 00:22:50,135 And our specialty is finding opportunities for growth that other people miss and 391 00:22:50,235 --> 00:22:55,075 unliking channels that you're not currently maximizing. For example, 392 00:22:55,395 --> 00:22:58,155 YouTube, most brands are sleeping on YouTube, 393 00:22:58,855 --> 00:23:02,315 and my belief is it's the biggest untapped opportunity for your brand. 394 00:23:02,815 --> 00:23:07,595 We're also good at adding up to eight figures in growth for Amazon brands. 395 00:23:07,715 --> 00:23:12,115 And so if you're looking for scale and growth profitably, 396 00:23:12,915 --> 00:23:15,335 that's what we do. We'd love to chat with you. 397 00:23:15,435 --> 00:23:17,355 We'd love to review your current marketing efforts, 398 00:23:17,615 --> 00:23:22,375 show you where there's missed opportunities and craft a specific plan 399 00:23:22,955 --> 00:23:27,015 for you. So visit us at omgcommerce.com, click the Let's Talk button, 400 00:23:27,575 --> 00:23:32,135 and we'd love to schedule a complimentary strategic review with you. With that, 401 00:23:32,355 --> 00:23:33,155 back to the show. 402 00:23:33,155 --> 00:23:38,155 Yeah. I think the word brand throws our performance marketer brains into a 403 00:23:38,375 --> 00:23:40,435 tizzy that we cannot escape from. 404 00:23:40,895 --> 00:23:41,935 You want me to waste money? Why. 405 00:23:42,095 --> 00:23:44,035 Do you want me to everything? One jumps like, "Okay, 406 00:23:44,095 --> 00:23:46,215 so I should just go blow some money?" And it's like, no. 407 00:23:46,275 --> 00:23:47,235 No. I got Coca-Cola. 408 00:23:47,975 --> 00:23:48,808 Yeah. 409 00:23:49,455 --> 00:23:54,175 I try to reframe it to everyone on my team that we are not building a brand, 410 00:23:54,335 --> 00:23:58,676 we're like showing our personality. And once you make it your personality, 411 00:23:58,756 --> 00:24:03,036 I think it's a lot easier to draw connections between who our customers are and 412 00:24:03,096 --> 00:24:04,976 who we should be. Yeah. 413 00:24:05,256 --> 00:24:09,936 I also like the word personality because we all know our 414 00:24:09,956 --> 00:24:11,436 personalities can be flexible. 415 00:24:12,736 --> 00:24:15,696 This is how I show up to an e-commerce marketing podcast, 416 00:24:16,456 --> 00:24:19,756 but on Friday night when I have some guys over for a fire, 417 00:24:19,816 --> 00:24:22,756 I'm going to talk much differently than I'm talking now. 418 00:24:22,996 --> 00:24:26,556 I'm not going to talk about what copy tests I ran that. 419 00:24:27,716 --> 00:24:31,596 And the next day when I'm at lunch with my in- laws, who I am there, 420 00:24:31,716 --> 00:24:35,116 it's just a little bit different version of me than who I am at work. 421 00:24:36,076 --> 00:24:38,156 I'm not being fake, I'm not being artificial, 422 00:24:38,236 --> 00:24:42,816 but personality allows you to show up in the right context in the right way. 423 00:24:43,256 --> 00:24:47,596 And that's what I think brands need to be able to do in 2026 and beyond is show 424 00:24:47,756 --> 00:24:52,316 up in a way that our customers care about and respect and like 425 00:24:52,696 --> 00:24:53,636 in the right context, 426 00:24:53,716 --> 00:24:58,596 because the way that you behave on TikTok and on YouTube and on Instagram should 427 00:24:58,636 --> 00:25:01,936 be different than the way your products arrive and should be different than how 428 00:25:01,956 --> 00:25:03,996 your customer service team operates. 429 00:25:04,176 --> 00:25:08,736 So I like personality because you can start to ask yourself 430 00:25:09,616 --> 00:25:12,996 questions like, "Hey, if our brand had Friday night plans, what would they be? 431 00:25:13,880 --> 00:25:17,836 " Would it be out drinking, dancing, partying? 432 00:25:18,016 --> 00:25:20,057 Would it be at home with the family? 433 00:25:20,736 --> 00:25:24,016 Is it getting a headstart on chores for the weekend? 434 00:25:24,936 --> 00:25:29,777 And then how different is Friday from Saturday and how do they feel on Monday 435 00:25:29,857 --> 00:25:30,690 mornings? 436 00:25:31,477 --> 00:25:36,097 That's what I think you need to do to build a fully flushed out brand 437 00:25:36,177 --> 00:25:41,077 playbook is understand how your brand is going to show up in different ways to 438 00:25:41,177 --> 00:25:42,997 different people, but at the right time. 439 00:25:44,097 --> 00:25:45,097 Dude, it's so good. 440 00:25:45,157 --> 00:25:48,877 And I think the other thing we think about when we think about branding is 441 00:25:49,377 --> 00:25:51,617 colors and fonts and logos. 442 00:25:51,697 --> 00:25:55,957 And certainly those are important and there's all kinds of psychological stuff 443 00:25:55,977 --> 00:25:59,477 that goes into that, but I love the personality angle. Yeah, 444 00:26:00,637 --> 00:26:03,177 what does my brand do on a Friday night for fun? 445 00:26:03,257 --> 00:26:05,557 What about on a Saturday morning or Monday? 446 00:26:05,637 --> 00:26:08,597 And then so I like that reframe for sure. 447 00:26:09,377 --> 00:26:12,977 How then have you seen ... So when you view it that way, 448 00:26:13,777 --> 00:26:16,197 how does that shift the way you approach copy? 449 00:26:16,257 --> 00:26:19,997 How have you seen that shift the way your team writes copy? 450 00:26:20,537 --> 00:26:22,377 What's the practical impact of that? 451 00:26:22,917 --> 00:26:26,877 First, we find out all those answers from our customers. We ask them, 452 00:26:27,357 --> 00:26:31,617 "What are you doing on a Friday? What kind of music are you listening to? 453 00:26:31,717 --> 00:26:35,317 What kind of sports are you watching?" Once we start to get those answers, 454 00:26:35,477 --> 00:26:40,257 we start to see and it becomes clear where we need to show up. At OG, 455 00:26:40,777 --> 00:26:45,377 all of our fans were NFL and country music fans. So we were like, immediately, 456 00:26:45,437 --> 00:26:48,297 let's go get some country artists to partner with us. 457 00:26:48,717 --> 00:26:51,217 We worked with some NFL teams, but that was hard. 458 00:26:52,857 --> 00:26:56,518 But we immediately knew like, okay, those are the places we need to show up. 459 00:26:57,778 --> 00:26:59,138 Then once you know what the places are, 460 00:26:59,298 --> 00:27:03,918 you start to understand how you need to appear, how you need to talk, dress, 461 00:27:04,218 --> 00:27:05,051 act. 462 00:27:05,758 --> 00:27:09,478 So that's what starts our copy and messaging, 463 00:27:10,678 --> 00:27:12,578 kind of brainstorming from there. It's like, all right, 464 00:27:12,638 --> 00:27:15,398 if our brand is going to show up to a country concert, 465 00:27:16,278 --> 00:27:18,118 are we going to be the guy front row screaming? 466 00:27:18,758 --> 00:27:22,058 Are we going to be at the back at the bar buying our friends shots? 467 00:27:22,678 --> 00:27:25,998 Who are we there? Who do our customers want us to be there? 468 00:27:26,058 --> 00:27:30,798 How can we show up as our customers essentially like best wing man at the 469 00:27:30,858 --> 00:27:32,558 events that they want to be at? 470 00:27:33,638 --> 00:27:38,138 So that's where it all starts and we try to view everything from that lens. 471 00:27:39,118 --> 00:27:43,838 Would our customers invite us as one of their best friends out to enjoy 472 00:27:44,118 --> 00:27:45,318 their favorite activities with them? 473 00:27:46,138 --> 00:27:50,298 Yeah. Yeah. It's so good. And then over time you're going to see, okay, 474 00:27:50,358 --> 00:27:55,298 how does that flavor or shift our copy and our emails 475 00:27:55,498 --> 00:27:59,678 from our automated flows to our monthly promotions or weekly promotions? 476 00:27:59,738 --> 00:28:02,538 How does that impact the Meta ads or the YouTube scripts? 477 00:28:02,698 --> 00:28:05,778 It can start to influence all of those and you're 100% right. 478 00:28:06,058 --> 00:28:08,438 There's a different way to approach each of those channels, 479 00:28:09,738 --> 00:28:14,038 but that personality can be the anchor or the core of what you're doing and then 480 00:28:14,058 --> 00:28:18,338 you're just applying it in the different space there, which I think is awesome. 481 00:28:18,678 --> 00:28:23,218 One example I want to pull up that I hope will bring this into kind of like 482 00:28:23,258 --> 00:28:24,978 concrete terms for everyone. 483 00:28:25,339 --> 00:28:30,039 We did an event with OG where we gave away a bunch of 484 00:28:30,119 --> 00:28:34,799 guitars to veterans and we put them through a music therapy program 485 00:28:35,719 --> 00:28:37,579 to cope with PTSD and everything. Yeah, 486 00:28:37,639 --> 00:28:41,079 the guys at OG do awesome charitable work. 487 00:28:42,179 --> 00:28:45,679 But we threw this event just outside of Nashville and it was fun. 488 00:28:45,859 --> 00:28:50,199 It was a party, it was happy, it got emotional for a minute, but overall fun, 489 00:28:50,339 --> 00:28:51,199 happy event. 490 00:28:51,999 --> 00:28:56,999 We invited our Tennessee customers to come out and we had a hundred 491 00:28:57,039 --> 00:29:00,919 or so of them show up and having a night where I could just kind of talk and 492 00:29:01,039 --> 00:29:03,239 hang with customers was so eye-opening. 493 00:29:03,299 --> 00:29:08,019 And the example that really stands out to me is there's a customer of ours 494 00:29:08,679 --> 00:29:13,059 who showed up to this event on a Friday night in ripped jeans and dusty boots. 495 00:29:14,379 --> 00:29:17,759 And I was like, "Man, that says way more about who our customer is. 496 00:29:18,120 --> 00:29:21,659 " And it would never show up on a post-purchase survey. 497 00:29:21,859 --> 00:29:24,039 It would never show up in a review, 498 00:29:24,679 --> 00:29:27,979 but just understanding that it's going to change our tone a little bit. 499 00:29:28,379 --> 00:29:32,639 We're going to say y'all when we talk instead of saying you all or you guys. 500 00:29:33,799 --> 00:29:35,319 It can change subtle things, 501 00:29:35,379 --> 00:29:39,079 but those subtle things I think are what makes the difference between a 502 00:29:39,759 --> 00:29:44,699 corporate boring brand and a brand that resonates with the people they're 503 00:29:44,719 --> 00:29:45,552 trying to hit. 504 00:29:46,059 --> 00:29:48,339 Yeah, it's so good, man. I love this quote. 505 00:29:48,399 --> 00:29:52,880 I think this was founder of Airbnb talked about to scale, 506 00:29:53,519 --> 00:29:56,080 sometimes you have to do things that don't, right? Which getting in 507 00:29:57,559 --> 00:30:00,120 Front of your customers, you can't necessarily do that at scale Hell, 508 00:30:00,320 --> 00:30:02,220 you certainly can't see all of your customers face to face, 509 00:30:02,560 --> 00:30:06,140 but I do however think you could duplicate those events and you could do 510 00:30:06,420 --> 00:30:09,260 multiple of those events per year. I think it'd be extremely valuable. 511 00:30:10,100 --> 00:30:12,660 I'm sure if you were to go back and look at those people that attended, 512 00:30:13,100 --> 00:30:15,860 they've probably purchased more than your average cohort. 513 00:30:15,940 --> 00:30:18,260 They probably referred more than your average cohort. 514 00:30:18,320 --> 00:30:22,520 That was probably a time well spent. But then on top of that, yeah, 515 00:30:22,600 --> 00:30:27,480 there's something about seeing a room of your customers that will 516 00:30:27,500 --> 00:30:31,460 completely change your perspective. And it's way easier to think about, 517 00:30:31,980 --> 00:30:36,980 I'm writing this ad for dude in the dusty boots versus I'm writing this ad 518 00:30:37,020 --> 00:30:41,600 for a male who's 25 to 54 and lives in the South.That's not even all that 519 00:30:41,620 --> 00:30:45,620 helpful. I want to write for a person and now I've got this person in my head. 520 00:30:45,760 --> 00:30:49,960 Yeah. And I think this little extra thing here for you, 521 00:30:50,480 --> 00:30:54,641 I think in real life events are necessary to build great 522 00:30:55,221 --> 00:30:57,841 brands from now on. I think in the age of AI, 523 00:30:58,381 --> 00:31:02,921 people are going to be craving connection and authenticity and something 524 00:31:03,201 --> 00:31:05,201 tangible and real more than anything. 525 00:31:05,521 --> 00:31:10,241 I think events are such a great way to do that. And you're right. 526 00:31:10,501 --> 00:31:14,061 I think those events are going to increase the LTV of any customer that shows 527 00:31:14,121 --> 00:31:15,901 up. So we'll probably at least break even on it. 528 00:31:16,461 --> 00:31:16,601 Yes. 529 00:31:16,601 --> 00:31:21,601 But at the very least, you'll get to know your customers on such a deeper level. 530 00:31:22,521 --> 00:31:24,201 So I'm really excited for that. 531 00:31:24,261 --> 00:31:26,861 We've got some stuff planned at Adapt that I think is going to be great. 532 00:31:28,101 --> 00:31:32,941 But I think when in doubt, if you're ever having writer's block, 533 00:31:33,101 --> 00:31:36,641 creators block for what to say to your customers, 534 00:31:37,061 --> 00:31:41,041 try to get in a room with them. And I promise the ideas will start flowing. 535 00:31:41,621 --> 00:31:44,681 That's awesome, man. And then I think then you leverage the event, 536 00:31:44,741 --> 00:31:46,101 and I think that's what you guys are doing as well, 537 00:31:46,201 --> 00:31:50,182 where you invite out some VIPs, you could shoot some interviews, 538 00:31:50,422 --> 00:31:54,422 you could get some content footage and pictures of this and leverage that. 539 00:31:54,502 --> 00:31:57,522 But that's one of the things I used to do actually formerly when I was doing 540 00:31:57,542 --> 00:31:58,280 some TV stuff, 541 00:31:58,280 --> 00:32:02,722 this was like early days of OMG and before we would do customer interviews and I 542 00:32:02,762 --> 00:32:04,922 got to where I was like a pro at interviewing people. 543 00:32:05,082 --> 00:32:09,662 And there's something magical that happens when you're asking a 544 00:32:09,762 --> 00:32:11,962 customer the right questions and they're on camera, 545 00:32:12,022 --> 00:32:14,482 but you get them to not think about the fact they're on camera for a little 546 00:32:14,502 --> 00:32:16,802 while. They'll say some amazing things. 547 00:32:16,882 --> 00:32:20,642 And then you chop those clips up and now you've got 548 00:32:22,082 --> 00:32:26,802 pieces of marketing gold that you can use in your Meta and YouTube and TikTok 549 00:32:26,842 --> 00:32:31,682 and Instagram ads for a long time. 100%. Yeah. Do in- person events. 550 00:32:31,742 --> 00:32:34,542 If you take nothing else away from this podcast, do it. 551 00:32:34,682 --> 00:32:39,122 I think it'll pay off in spades. Awesome. 552 00:32:40,983 --> 00:32:44,343 What are some of the, because I know you do a lot of testing, 553 00:32:44,560 --> 00:32:47,443 a lot of this angle versus that angle. 554 00:32:48,143 --> 00:32:53,123 Can you think of some tests that surprise you? 555 00:32:53,363 --> 00:32:57,203 So this one, and I did not see it coming, 556 00:32:57,583 --> 00:33:01,263 or this was a surprise outlier of an ad. 557 00:33:02,083 --> 00:33:03,463 And any examples come to mind? 558 00:33:04,383 --> 00:33:08,843 Yeah, dozens. I'm right more often than I'm wrong, 559 00:33:09,443 --> 00:33:12,523 but it's not as often as I'd like. 560 00:33:16,143 --> 00:33:20,223 I think the biggest examples that I'm ready to share, at least, 561 00:33:20,403 --> 00:33:24,983 are sometimes just flipping the perspective of a headline from 562 00:33:25,063 --> 00:33:29,383 positive to negative or negative to positive can be such a huge 563 00:33:29,683 --> 00:33:34,203 difference. If you're not familiar with valence and intensity zones, 564 00:33:34,783 --> 00:33:39,224 ask ChatGPT what they are. It'll give you a good little summary of them, 565 00:33:39,584 --> 00:33:44,404 but it's essentially a way to assign a description 566 00:33:44,544 --> 00:33:48,864 to a piece of content that's either going to be like positive and low energy, 567 00:33:49,064 --> 00:33:52,104 positive and high energy, negative and low energy, 568 00:33:52,544 --> 00:33:54,284 or negative and high energy. 569 00:33:54,904 --> 00:33:58,664 What I have found is there's not a copywriter in the world that's good at 570 00:33:58,724 --> 00:34:00,584 writing in all four of those tones. 571 00:34:02,244 --> 00:34:06,764 I am largely positive and hover 572 00:34:06,864 --> 00:34:11,364 between low and high energy, but if you ask me to write something negatively, 573 00:34:11,444 --> 00:34:13,584 it gets way too depressing way too quickly. 574 00:34:14,404 --> 00:34:16,744 I don't know what that says about me, but it gets dark. 575 00:34:17,064 --> 00:34:18,644 Quick. It's dark fast. 576 00:34:19,284 --> 00:34:22,244 So I've always just kind of stuck to positive writing, 577 00:34:22,624 --> 00:34:26,654 but it's helped a ton to feed some of our best winning headlines into ... 578 00:34:26,864 --> 00:34:30,525 I'm using Claude for everything now. And say, "Hey, 579 00:34:30,725 --> 00:34:35,285 figure out what valence and intensity zone this copy 580 00:34:35,545 --> 00:34:36,378 falls into, 581 00:34:36,585 --> 00:34:41,405 then rewrite options in every other zone." And it spit out some stuff that 582 00:34:41,805 --> 00:34:42,185 I-. 583 00:34:42,185 --> 00:34:43,085 What a great approach. 584 00:34:43,360 --> 00:34:44,985 ... that I would never have thought to write. 585 00:34:46,365 --> 00:34:51,185 And so that's been really eye-opening to see how powerful that 586 00:34:51,285 --> 00:34:55,165 can be because I've been wrong about if something should be phrased positively 587 00:34:55,265 --> 00:34:56,205 or negatively. 588 00:34:57,145 --> 00:35:00,585 So that's been one that has surprised me time and time again where I'll take a 589 00:35:00,665 --> 00:35:05,245 winning headline that I tried to beat on my own three times and failed 590 00:35:05,885 --> 00:35:08,365 and I put it through that series of prompts. 591 00:35:08,425 --> 00:35:13,265 It comes out with something new that crushes it. That has surprised me a bunch. 592 00:35:14,025 --> 00:35:16,285 So just something I'll riff on that really quickly. 593 00:35:16,845 --> 00:35:20,425 I think it's so important because I definitely lean positive as well. 594 00:35:20,585 --> 00:35:24,266 I'm an optimist to a fault sometimes, very optimistic. 595 00:35:24,806 --> 00:35:27,846 I also am a morning person. I can do well late at night as well, 596 00:35:27,906 --> 00:35:28,866 but I've just got a lot of energy, 597 00:35:29,186 --> 00:35:34,146 but I'll wake up just ready to go and my wife does not and my kids mostly do 598 00:35:34,226 --> 00:35:38,886 not. And so it's like if I wake up and I'm charged up and I'm 599 00:35:39,986 --> 00:35:42,966 overly optimistic and positive, my kids hate that. 600 00:35:43,186 --> 00:35:44,906 I got to meet them on their level, so to speak. 601 00:35:45,566 --> 00:35:47,086 I think the same is true for copy. 602 00:35:47,406 --> 00:35:51,966 Some people want a different energy level, they want a different angle. 603 00:35:52,080 --> 00:35:55,686 They're going to connect with you if you're a little less optimistic. 604 00:35:56,126 --> 00:35:58,226 And so that's where you got to look at it. 605 00:35:58,386 --> 00:36:02,400 And just a reminder that not everyone is the same as you, right? 100%. 606 00:36:02,680 --> 00:36:05,246 So what a brilliant way to use Claw. Love that. 607 00:36:05,566 --> 00:36:06,399 Yeah. And then 608 00:36:08,666 --> 00:36:11,426 that has become how we build funnels too 609 00:36:14,026 --> 00:36:18,867 because each of those zones are going to hit different people 610 00:36:19,407 --> 00:36:22,787 the best. So the first time we test that, we test it to everyone on our 611 00:36:24,607 --> 00:36:26,227 website and we determine like, hey, 612 00:36:26,327 --> 00:36:30,667 the majority of people respond well to a positive, low energy 613 00:36:31,867 --> 00:36:34,507 Piece of copy. And it's like, great, we can set that live for now. 614 00:36:35,087 --> 00:36:37,907 But there's still groups of other people that are not going to resonate with 615 00:36:37,947 --> 00:36:40,667 that at all. So once we find a couple different ones that work, 616 00:36:41,167 --> 00:36:44,527 then we start to create ads in that same tone and 617 00:36:46,167 --> 00:36:49,927 voice and send them to their own landing page that speaks the way they want to 618 00:36:49,967 --> 00:36:50,967 be spoken to. 619 00:36:53,047 --> 00:36:56,727 The morning person energy is probably the better example of it. 620 00:36:56,787 --> 00:37:00,467 The example that I have given to my team is that when you're drunk, 621 00:37:00,787 --> 00:37:03,887 a sober person is so annoying. And when you're sober, 622 00:37:04,067 --> 00:37:05,827 a drunk person is so annoying. 623 00:37:06,167 --> 00:37:07,407 Dude, what a great example. 624 00:37:07,467 --> 00:37:10,880 They should not mix at all, but I want to sell to all of them. 625 00:37:10,960 --> 00:37:13,840 I want to sell to drunk and sober people. Absolutely. 626 00:37:15,000 --> 00:37:20,000 So it's created more work because we got to make more funnels and ads 627 00:37:20,080 --> 00:37:20,913 and LPs, 628 00:37:21,280 --> 00:37:24,400 but it's been worth it because we are talking to people the way they want to be 629 00:37:24,480 --> 00:37:25,313 spoken to. 630 00:37:26,000 --> 00:37:29,480 Yeah. It's so important, man. And you start to connect all of those things. 631 00:37:30,480 --> 00:37:32,880 This is the reason why someone buys. 632 00:37:33,120 --> 00:37:36,080 Maybe this is the reason they're willing to admit that they buy. 633 00:37:36,520 --> 00:37:39,920 This is the deeper reason why they buy. Now we can speak to both of those. 634 00:37:40,720 --> 00:37:43,160 This is our brand personality, right? 635 00:37:43,280 --> 00:37:46,720 This is how we show up on a Friday night and a Monday morning. 636 00:37:47,200 --> 00:37:48,800 This is who our customer wants to be. 637 00:37:49,240 --> 00:37:52,400 This is who we're writing to or writing to the guy in the ripped jeans and the 638 00:37:52,410 --> 00:37:56,480 dusty boots. And then it's like, okay, then how are we approaching it? 639 00:37:57,280 --> 00:38:02,080 Is it high energy positive, optimistic? Is it low energy positive? 640 00:38:03,080 --> 00:38:06,880 Looking at all of those things, man, you really start to create some unlocks, 641 00:38:07,800 --> 00:38:09,280 which is just phenomenal. And 642 00:38:11,440 --> 00:38:14,720 what about any creative formulas that you use? 643 00:38:15,040 --> 00:38:19,120 So I think what we just talked about, man, if people embrace that, 644 00:38:19,400 --> 00:38:20,720 going to create some serious unlocks. 645 00:38:21,080 --> 00:38:24,760 Let me add one more thing to that. Yeah, please, please. Before we move on. 646 00:38:26,560 --> 00:38:30,920 The reason I stress so hard that personality and brand personalities need to be 647 00:38:31,200 --> 00:38:34,360 flexible is because we don't have one why. 648 00:38:35,080 --> 00:38:38,000 There's not one reason why people are buying from us. 649 00:38:39,000 --> 00:38:43,560 And the example that I've used is sometimes I buy whiskey to celebrate because 650 00:38:43,720 --> 00:38:46,560 I'm happy. Sometimes I buy because I'm sad. 651 00:38:47,640 --> 00:38:51,680 Same product, same guy, but depending on how I'm feeling, 652 00:38:51,960 --> 00:38:53,640 my motivation for it is different. 653 00:38:53,840 --> 00:38:58,720 So that's why I think we need to be able to communicate in different voices 654 00:38:58,920 --> 00:39:02,880 and tones because it's going to hit different people in different ways at 655 00:39:02,960 --> 00:39:07,240 different times. So don't be so focused on like, "Oh, what's our one why? 656 00:39:07,780 --> 00:39:12,240 What's the thing?" There's a hundred of them and you need to learn eventually 657 00:39:12,320 --> 00:39:14,000 how to speak to all of them really well. 658 00:39:14,960 --> 00:39:16,040 So good. So good. 659 00:39:17,830 --> 00:39:22,560 Last couple things here as we kind of wind our time down. First, 660 00:39:22,920 --> 00:39:26,920 do you have any kind of creative formulas you use or any 661 00:39:28,370 --> 00:39:32,430 rubrics or like, "Hey, as I'm creating ads, all the things we just talked about, 662 00:39:32,490 --> 00:39:36,010 but then it needs to kind of have these elements." Anything like that that would 663 00:39:36,030 --> 00:39:38,390 be helpful for marketers and brand owners? 664 00:39:38,630 --> 00:39:43,630 One of my favorite quick hacks that anyone can do that I have yet to seen lose 665 00:39:43,730 --> 00:39:47,890 at a brand I've tested this on is ask Claude, 666 00:39:48,010 --> 00:39:50,390 ask your favorite AI tool. "Hey, 667 00:39:50,510 --> 00:39:55,191 list all of the positive adjectives that someone might use to describe our 668 00:39:55,371 --> 00:39:56,151 products. 669 00:39:56,151 --> 00:39:56,331 They're. 670 00:39:56,331 --> 00:40:01,231 Going to list rugged and dependable or maybe it's luxurious and high end and 671 00:40:01,391 --> 00:40:02,224 exclusive. 672 00:40:03,331 --> 00:40:07,671 Then you're going to ask it after you upload all your customer reviews, 673 00:40:07,731 --> 00:40:08,564 you're going to ask it, 674 00:40:08,771 --> 00:40:12,711 which of these adjectives do our customers most want to describe themselves? 675 00:40:13,351 --> 00:40:14,091 "And it might say," Hey, 676 00:40:14,091 --> 00:40:19,051 your customers really want to be known as something luxurious 677 00:40:19,111 --> 00:40:22,051 and high end and premium and like a top shelf guy. 678 00:40:23,431 --> 00:40:27,671 "Then you're going to use the formula that I've used for I think 11 brands 679 00:40:28,471 --> 00:40:33,131 now from OG to Adapt to Jack 680 00:40:33,191 --> 00:40:34,024 Daniels, 681 00:40:34,671 --> 00:40:39,371 Hexclad and Ridge have run similar ones where you say positive 682 00:40:39,411 --> 00:40:43,432 adjective plus positive adjective just like the customers who use it. 683 00:40:44,032 --> 00:40:44,852 So at OG, 684 00:40:44,852 --> 00:40:48,632 we said our watches were rugged and dependable just like the men who wear it. 685 00:40:49,172 --> 00:40:53,852 Hexclad said our knives are sharp into the point just like the chefs who 686 00:40:53,972 --> 00:40:54,805 trust it. 687 00:40:55,072 --> 00:40:59,872 Jack Daniels said their whiskey is bold and complex like the guys who drink it. 688 00:41:00,532 --> 00:41:05,272 That formula has just crushed over and over and over 689 00:41:05,372 --> 00:41:08,052 again. So that's the one like if you are new to copy, 690 00:41:08,712 --> 00:41:11,372 I'd go run through that series of prompts, 691 00:41:11,952 --> 00:41:14,632 mess with different versions of adjectives, 692 00:41:15,512 --> 00:41:18,232 but that one's been huge for us and it's super simple to do. 693 00:41:19,692 --> 00:41:20,852 Love that. And also, 694 00:41:21,212 --> 00:41:26,192 I just so appreciate that you talked about we don't maybe need to have this 695 00:41:26,832 --> 00:41:30,352 maniacal volume focus and obsession of, 696 00:41:30,472 --> 00:41:34,912 I must launch a hundred ads this week or 2000 ads this month or something. 697 00:41:35,692 --> 00:41:37,992 Let's see how many great ads can we produce. 698 00:41:38,052 --> 00:41:39,893 And one of the things I'll kind of emphasize, 699 00:41:40,053 --> 00:41:42,093 because we see this on the YouTube side a lot as well, 700 00:41:42,453 --> 00:41:45,673 there've been a number of brands we've taken from zero to a million a month in 701 00:41:45,753 --> 00:41:49,993 spend on YouTube and most of them, it's with a couple of good creatives. 702 00:41:50,473 --> 00:41:52,633 We're obviously testing quite a few things, 703 00:41:52,693 --> 00:41:56,053 but I can think of a few examples where it was like two ads, 704 00:41:56,253 --> 00:42:00,413 two smashing ads that unlock scale for 705 00:42:01,153 --> 00:42:02,373 six to 18 months. 706 00:42:02,953 --> 00:42:07,653 And so I think that should maybe motivate to spend the 707 00:42:07,693 --> 00:42:10,713 time, spend the time to do the things you're talking about here. 708 00:42:11,533 --> 00:42:14,733 And then over time you can lean more into volume to whatever extent makes sense 709 00:42:14,793 --> 00:42:15,493 for your brand, 710 00:42:15,493 --> 00:42:20,213 but good creative matters and you've got to 711 00:42:20,333 --> 00:42:21,166 invest in it. 712 00:42:21,253 --> 00:42:25,253 So to me, it's the sharpening the ax analogy. 713 00:42:25,693 --> 00:42:29,873 If we both had an hour to cut down a tree and you start hacking at the tree 714 00:42:30,074 --> 00:42:34,114 immediately, and I spend the first 45 minutes sharpening the ax, 715 00:42:34,194 --> 00:42:37,414 I think I'm going to beat you. And in marketing, 716 00:42:37,574 --> 00:42:42,214 that ax sharpening is research and talking to customers and 717 00:42:42,494 --> 00:42:46,454 surveying them and understanding why they're actually trying to buy before you 718 00:42:46,474 --> 00:42:47,354 go to make the ad. 719 00:42:48,214 --> 00:42:52,234 Well said. Well said, man. Where do you go for inspiration? Who do you look at? 720 00:42:52,314 --> 00:42:54,374 Are you just looking at other great brands? Are you reading books? 721 00:42:54,434 --> 00:42:56,754 You listening to podcasts? Where do you go for creative inspiration? 722 00:42:57,074 --> 00:42:57,907 Songwriters. 723 00:42:58,754 --> 00:42:59,894 No way. Okay. Yeah. 724 00:43:00,214 --> 00:43:01,047 Yeah. 725 00:43:02,834 --> 00:43:06,434 I consume shockingly little marketing content. 726 00:43:06,494 --> 00:43:09,694 I probably should consume some more. But for me, 727 00:43:11,374 --> 00:43:14,954 the people that know how to connect words to people the best are writing music. 728 00:43:18,834 --> 00:43:20,814 Morgan Wallen put out a song last year 729 00:43:22,374 --> 00:43:27,355 where he talks about if you're going to be a friend, be a friend like Skull, 730 00:43:27,495 --> 00:43:31,575 that's always there in a pinch. If you're going to love your woman, 731 00:43:31,855 --> 00:43:34,775 love her like a Chevy, nice and steady. 732 00:43:34,895 --> 00:43:37,395 And if you have something to say, 733 00:43:37,535 --> 00:43:41,015 treat them like your browning rifle and shoot it straight. 734 00:43:42,435 --> 00:43:46,355 And like one, those companies should all be using that in their ads constantly. 735 00:43:46,470 --> 00:43:48,595 100%. Lean into that. Yeah. Yeah. 736 00:43:48,800 --> 00:43:53,395 But I think people that can write number one hitted songs are understanding how 737 00:43:53,415 --> 00:43:56,895 to connect words to people's feelings better than anyone in marketing. 738 00:43:57,575 --> 00:44:00,135 So that's really where I try to get inspiration from. 739 00:44:00,795 --> 00:44:03,975 I find when I try to get too much inspiration from competitors or from the 740 00:44:04,015 --> 00:44:07,375 industry, our ads start to sound and feel like everyone else is, which. 741 00:44:07,395 --> 00:44:09,655 Is- It becomes derivative right now. It's like that thing, 742 00:44:09,800 --> 00:44:12,895 but maybe just slightly different. Yeah. Yeah. I think that's great. 743 00:44:13,075 --> 00:44:14,115 I've also heard, 744 00:44:14,575 --> 00:44:17,555 and I've always had a fascination for copying and good marketing, 745 00:44:17,615 --> 00:44:21,656 but I've also heard, and this rings true for me, paying attention to comedians, 746 00:44:21,716 --> 00:44:26,136 like listening to how do comedians frame things and say things? 747 00:44:26,196 --> 00:44:30,176 Because generally what's really funny and what works is like I'm looking at an 748 00:44:30,276 --> 00:44:34,996 everyday thing, like Jerry Seinfeld waiting for a table in a Chinese restaurant, 749 00:44:35,136 --> 00:44:38,656 but I'm flipping that into something hilarious and something that we can relate 750 00:44:38,696 --> 00:44:42,356 to. But I love the music thing. I hadn't thought a ton about that. 751 00:44:43,736 --> 00:44:47,416 My wife is helping me like country music. I didn't grow up liking country music. 752 00:44:48,076 --> 00:44:50,856 Nice. But I'm appreciating it. I'm appreciating it more. 753 00:44:51,676 --> 00:44:54,556 My daughters all like it, so I'm like, all right, all right, I got to get there. 754 00:44:54,680 --> 00:44:58,816 But I've also loved even hip hop artists and stuff, 755 00:44:58,916 --> 00:45:03,456 like what they do with language, very clever and very interesting. And so yeah, 756 00:45:03,516 --> 00:45:05,496 I hadn't thought about that. I'm a marketing podcast junkie, 757 00:45:05,556 --> 00:45:10,316 so I consume this stuff like I'm running out of time, but I like that. 758 00:45:10,476 --> 00:45:11,996 I like that, listening to music. 759 00:45:12,197 --> 00:45:15,437 For inspiration. Yeah, I like comedians too. I'm a big standup fan, 760 00:45:15,597 --> 00:45:18,717 but I haven't treated it like that. But I mean, yeah, 761 00:45:18,917 --> 00:45:21,317 comedians and artists, 762 00:45:21,957 --> 00:45:26,477 they make people feel more passionately with their words than any 763 00:45:26,797 --> 00:45:27,537 marketer does. 764 00:45:27,537 --> 00:45:31,797 No one is reading your ad on Meta and laughing out loud to themselves or nodding 765 00:45:33,377 --> 00:45:34,210 their head to it. 766 00:45:34,657 --> 00:45:35,490 Yeah. And really that's just, 767 00:45:35,657 --> 00:45:40,437 I understand how to use language and how to shift emotions. 768 00:45:40,497 --> 00:45:42,617 And I understand comedic timing and things like that. 769 00:45:42,677 --> 00:45:46,537 So all of that does actually play into good copy. It just does. 770 00:45:47,017 --> 00:45:49,857 And so that is awesome, man. Dude, 771 00:45:49,917 --> 00:45:52,937 this has been absolute gold. Love it. 772 00:45:53,077 --> 00:45:54,557 I could talk to you for another couple of hours. 773 00:45:54,617 --> 00:45:56,957 I've got like media questions and other things that I need to dive into, 774 00:45:57,077 --> 00:46:00,017 but we'll kind wrap up it. We'll run it back. Next thing, we'll wrap up, 775 00:46:00,200 --> 00:46:03,077 make this all creative focus. But yeah, dude, 776 00:46:03,137 --> 00:46:06,257 for those that want to find out more about you, 777 00:46:07,158 --> 00:46:11,478 tell me about the podcast, tell me about what you post on X. 778 00:46:11,558 --> 00:46:14,198 And then also huge fan of what you're doing at Adapt. 779 00:46:14,258 --> 00:46:17,638 So we all need to get healthier and probably buy some stuff from Adapt. 780 00:46:17,738 --> 00:46:21,138 Yeah, get healthier. That's like half the reason I took the job. 781 00:46:21,458 --> 00:46:26,038 It's like just wanted to reprioritize health and quality of 782 00:46:26,158 --> 00:46:30,238 life. But yeah, you can follow me on Twitter @natelegos. 783 00:46:30,478 --> 00:46:34,018 The Tactical Impractical Podcast is available anywhere you listen to podcasts. 784 00:46:34,658 --> 00:46:38,438 And yeah, other than that, would love to just connect with everyone, Twitter, 785 00:46:38,578 --> 00:46:42,318 LinkedIn, and hopefully we all keep growing brands and making money. 786 00:46:43,678 --> 00:46:46,438 Let's do it. Nate, thanks so much, man. It's been awesome. 787 00:46:46,598 --> 00:46:48,378 Looking forward to round two. 788 00:46:48,738 --> 00:46:50,418 Sweet. Thanks for having me, Brett. Appreciate. 789 00:46:50,438 --> 00:46:54,158 It. Absolutely. And as always, thank you for tuning in. 790 00:46:54,738 --> 00:46:58,818 Would love to hear from you. If this podcast was helpful and I know that it was, 791 00:46:59,539 --> 00:47:03,139 share it with somebody that you think could benefit from it. And with that, 792 00:47:03,239 --> 00:47:07,439 until next time, thank you for listening. That'll do it for this week's episode. 793 00:47:07,819 --> 00:47:11,359 One final mention. If you feel like you've stalled out with your growth, 794 00:47:11,959 --> 00:47:15,719 if you feel like you've missed opportunities and if you feel like your current 795 00:47:16,199 --> 00:47:19,939 team or agency, they just don't have that buyer anymore, 796 00:47:20,439 --> 00:47:24,379 or maybe you feel like you've outgrown them, we would love to chat. 797 00:47:24,899 --> 00:47:27,819 You may be missing opportunities and we don't want to miss an opportunity to 798 00:47:27,899 --> 00:47:29,519 work with great brands. 799 00:47:29,739 --> 00:47:34,459 So if you'd love to scale on YouTube or Google or Meta or Amazon or email and 800 00:47:34,999 --> 00:47:35,799 SMS, 801 00:47:35,799 --> 00:47:39,339 or just like a second set of eyes to look over how you're growing right now, 802 00:47:40,179 --> 00:47:44,759 visit us at omgcommerce.com and we can't wait to help you 803 00:47:44,919 --> 00:47:45,959 scale profitably.