[00:00:00] Jake Barr: Supply chain leaders must be even more committed than they have been in the past to personal education. We’re managing in a never normal time. And so as such, you have to challenge, am I personally competent enough in what I know and what I can do to help strategize and determine the right plans for the organization?

[00:00:27] Voice Over: Welcome to Supply Chain Now, the number one voice of supply chain. Join us as we share critical news, key insights, and real supply chain leadership from across the globe. One conversation at a time.

[00:00:39] Scott W. Luton: Hey, good morning, good afternoon, good evening, wherever you may be. Scott Luton, Karin Bursa, and Jake Barr here with you on Supply Chain Now. Hey, Karin, how you doing?

[00:00:49] Karin Bursa: I’m doing great. It’s good to be with you guys today.

[00:00:52] Scott W. Luton: You as well. We have some great moments in the pre-show. All that sense of humor is going to roll right into this session here today. Jake.

[00:01:01] Jake Barr: Oh, it’s the heat strokes that are taking over. Come on.

[00:01:05] Scott W. Luton: I think you’re right. Jake Barr, AKA, the John Wayne of Global Supply chain. Jake, how are you doing today?

[00:01:11] Jake Barr: I’m doing wonderfully. I’m looking for some ice to sit in somewhere.

[00:01:16] Scott W. Luton: Oh, no doubt. And I was just sharing, we should all be used to this. I grew up in South Carolina and Georgia been here for a lot longer than I want to admit. I should be used to it. But every year when come, usually 1st of July and we get that hot, humid heat, I’m never, never ready. We got to do something about that. But folks, we have a terrific show here today focused on the critical takeaways from two of the biggest supply chain leadership events of each and every year. Gartner Supply Chain Symposiums in Orlando, Florida, and Barcelona, Spain. So if you couldn’t make it, or even if you could, Karin and Jake are going to be sharing key thoughts, concepts, takeaways that you really can’t afford to miss. And as we get ready for the second half of this interesting, unique, and ever so disruptive year, we’re also going to be sharing a couple of important priorities that supply chain leaders better keep their eyes on. Karin, you ready to bring yet another dose of those facts, not feelings here today?

[00:02:14] Karin Bursa: Absolutely. Absolutely. Hey Scott, it’s a great time to be in supply chain and going to this conference. Just one example,

[00:02:21] Scott W. Luton: I was wondering when you were going to work that in. That is your mantra and I love it. And Jake, we got to keep it really real here today, huh?

[00:02:29] Jake Barr: Absolutely. It is time to roll into the first takeaway from that event, which is I think a good cornerstone to plant some concrete with, and it’s called, finally we’re shouting from the stage. Let’s embrace the never normal. If you’re going to build your supply chains and you’re going to build capabilities, you better well get with the plan to finally realize, get your head out of the sand and look upwards and in front of you. Because if you’re expecting the chaos to go away, it won’t be going away.

[00:03:07] Scott W. Luton: The never normal, we’ve got to wrap our head around it folks, and we’re going to talk a lot more about why it’s never normal and what you need to know from these millions of impactful and consequential supply chain leadership conversations. So I want to do this though, Jake and Karin, before we get to good stuff, I love my fun warmup questions and I love, I’m a big history nerd too, and this is a good one. So today folks is National Barcode Day, which commemorates June 26th, 1974 when the first UPC Universal Product Code was scanned at a grocery store in Troy, Ohio. Remember that location? That’d be a great bar. Trivia question, what was a product? A pack of Wrigley’s Juicy Fruit Gum? Remember that? Remember those commercials back in the day? So I’m using that as a backdrop, Jake and Karin, I got a fun warmup question for you with scanning in mind. Hotly debated question, self-checkout owls are everywhere. I love ‘em. I almost exclusively use them all the time, but as I’ve talked about these things over the last few years, I found a lot of folks that loath them, including my better half. Amanda Luton, where do you stand on the self-checkout line debate,

[00:04:16] Karin Bursa: Karin? It all depends on the store, to be quite honest with you. Number one, I hate going to the grocery store. So self-checkout at the grocery store, not a fan self-checkout at Home Depot. No problem.

[00:04:31] Scott W. Luton: Alright, I like that. I like that. Jake Barr, how about you fan or no fan?

[00:04:37] Jake Barr: Oh, mixed answers, Scott, because like Karin, you have to understand it isn’t just about how few items or how many items you have with you. It’s also about, she said correctly where you’re going to do it because this is a mix of process technology and people execution. So I can be just as frustrated by going through a checkout lane that’s staffed, but staffed with people that aren’t trained than I am through a self-check here.

[00:05:13] Karin Bursa: Well, and Jake, I don’t want to wait in line for self-checkout. I’m happy to wait for a human to help me with something, but don’t put me 10 people deep, 15 people deep for self-checkout.

[00:05:27] Scott W. Luton: Oh man, we’re going to have to have a whole show about this. And y’all analyze this in a way that I wasn’t expecting. I should have expected it, but Karin and Jake, the debate will continue

[00:05:37] Jake Barr: The cap to Sam’s Club, quite frankly, in my opinion. If you’re going to do self-checkout, do it where I’m scanning this stuff as I go through and I’m already checked out before I even get to the door. Okay,

[00:05:49] Scott W. Luton: Love that. And I haven’t been in one yet, but these Amazon stores where you put stuff in the basket and you just walk out, that is really, really cool. But let’s level set. Karin and Jake, I bet we’ve got the smartest and most savvy audience in all the global supply chain. We know that they prove themselves time and time again, but we might have some newer members that haven’t attended a Gartner Supply Chain Symposium. So I want to share a couple of details and I’m going to get Jake and Karin to also to chime in with context because they’ve been to a lot more of ’em than I have. So in May each year, Gartner hosts supply chain leaders really from across the world and all across sectors, industries, you name it, for two key forms. They do plenty of other programming, but two key supply chain leadership forum, one in Orlando, Florida and one in beautiful Barcelona, Spain.

[00:06:34] Scott W. Luton: The forums are filled with keynotes, special events, interviews, trade show booths, and my favorite networking with old and new friends across industry that leads to perhaps the biggest supply chain happy hour in the business. I’m going to tell you I got to get it on video next time this year. Supply Chain Now served as a media partner for the Orlando Symposium and we’ve been publishing a variety of outstanding interviews. Check this out folks. Jett McCandless with project 44, Noha Samara with Gartner. Talk to her about decision shaping and storytelling. You’ll make your day. Paul Noble, my dear friend Paul Noble with Verusen, Philip Vervloesem. We were just talking about Philip with OMP. I love that mural back behind him. And of course Stefanie Hardy with Bastian Solutions. You got Catherine right there who is busy shaking hands and talking with supply chain leaders across the symposium. So one quick call out before I get Karin and Jake to tell me what I’ve missed. I miss stuff all the time and Jake in particular loves telling me what I missed, but registration is already live for 2026. We’ll drop the link and we invite you to check it out. Hopefully consider joining us. So Jake, let’s start with you. I’m not sure how many symposiums is that, the right plural that you have been to, but my hunch, because you’re like the mayor there, I bet you’ve been to a bunch of them. What else do folks need to know about these great events?

[00:08:03] Jake Barr: I hate to say how old I am, which I won’t, but I will say that I’ve attended every single one since its inception. So Ben Keynote had the honor of keying a couple of ‘em, but fundamentally, I think the first point, and I wasn’t being flipping about it as we started this new clarity of making sure people understand, you’ve got to take into account how you’re setting up and structuring the supply chain to deal with this constant state of the new never normal, okay? It truly is that situation. And I think that if you want to talk about a pillar or underpinning of how you should walk out of an engagement like that and start networking across various verticals and other leaders for what are they trying, what are you doing? How’s successful? What is it? Some of the takeaways, that’s one I would ground myself

[00:09:03] Scott W. Luton: In. Jake, I love that I learned new things. Karin, we were just talking about this pre-show too. I learned new things about Jake every time we get together, the highfalutin keynote at Gartner and been to every single one. Wow. So Karin, what else do folks need to know to understand the value of attending a supply chain symposium that Gartner hosts?

[00:09:25] Karin Bursa: Well, so it definitely is a place to be. And the symposiums, along with Jake, I’ve been to every one of ‘em also, and it is just a great mix. It’s a great mix of industries, it’s a great mix of executive levels, supply chain professionals that are driving change in their business and the networking is some of the best in the industry. So whether you attend the Orlando event, which is the bigger of the two or the Barcelona event, I do encourage you if you’ve got the opportunity, I encourage you to go and be focused on networking, but get to those sessions too because there’s lots of good content that’s shared. And when you go to the expo hall, lots of sponsors that are quite honestly investing a lot of money to be there as sponsors and they do it because they’ve got a high value proposition to share with you.

[00:10:24] Scott W. Luton: Alright folks, you’ve heard it from two, it doesn’t

[00:10:28] Jake Barr: Matter what kind of background you’re from, either Scott too, I mean discreet industries, process, industries, you name it, you’ve got the full spectrum and you can get nuggets and ideas to piece together in a plan like no other place.

[00:10:46] Scott W. Luton: So folks take it from Karin and Jake, I’ll tell you, if they spend their time there, it is worth to be there. So check it out and if you’re there next year, make sure you stop by and say hello as I bet we’ll be knocking out a lot more interviews next year. Alright, planning ahead.

[00:11:03] Karin Bursa: Hey Scott, I would add one more thing. You mentioned happy hours, spend time in the happy hours and networking. I think you’ll forge some new friendships, some great connections in the industry. It’s just a great way to get to know the people behind some of the best supply chains in the world.

[00:11:21] Scott W. Luton: That’s right. So for all of you out there, especially Scott Luton, he likes going to bed early, stick around, stick around, have an adult beverage or a cup of coffee and spend some time with the best part of global supply chain. That’s the people. Okay, Jake and Karin, we have got a lot of really good stuff, critical takeaways from both y’all here today. And I’m going to throw in a couple and that’s where I want to start before we get into, Jake’s going to be our lead off hitter in just a second. I bet we’re going to hear a lot lot more about this never normal again, which we should. But I want to call one thing out. The opening keynote. The opening keynote got a lot of folks’ attention. Ken Chadwick shared a lot of good stuff from Gartner Research, including these two points.

[00:12:08] Scott W. Luton: One was despite supply chain data visibility being prioritized as a top capability, it is the lowest funded supply chain technology initiative. This needs to change, preach, Ken preach. And then secondly, while 88% of supply chain leaders agree on the positive impact of scenario planning, so they know it’s valuable, just 19% are fully integrating it into their supply chain strategies, that will probably prompt a lot of conversations around offices everywhere. But Jake, let’s get right out of the gate. We got a bunch of key takeaways to get Garner from you and Karin. Where do we start, Jake?

[00:12:52] Jake Barr: So Scott, let’s talk the never normal, but let’s talk a context of the two points you just brought up because I think they all flow together. Look, if you were running a manufacturing line, okay, I’m going to use that as an analogy here for a moment. If you were running a manufacturing line and somebody says, Hey, I don’t understand what’s happening in the next process unit right down the line, that would be unacceptable. Absolutely unacceptable. Why? Because from a where it’s good manufacturing practice or regulatory requirements or FDA requirements, if you’re in that type of product mix, your need to understand and have process controls around how the flow of not only the product and the materials and the conversion processes, et cetera, all come together and what they are yielding, whether it’s good or bad product, et cetera, et cetera, is a base fundamental expectation. So we have all these disruptions going on across the supply chain. The new never normal, but yet we’ve grown to just simply become almost numb to expecting that level of management of how we’re running the Indian supply chain. Visibility is part of it. Now, I throw in an angle, and I know Karin will jump in as well, it’s not visibility, it’s about consequence of what’s happening.

[00:14:34] Jake Barr: So I can have a lot of truck updates, right? Of things late, early, all that stuff. It’s the consequence of whether it means anything or not, just like I would around the injection of the next piece of material into the production unit and the temperature reading, et cetera. So that element flows through. So I would sum it up as saying the never normal folks has been here for the last several years. Some have chosen to view it as an aberrant data point. It’s not. It is real. And it’s happening to us every day in higher and higher levels of volatility around different processes and different elements. And so to stick your head in the sand and believe that I don’t need to worry about that in a context of how resilient the supply chain is, how connected all my information and my process flows are, how I actually trigger and make decisions based on consequences of activities is insane to me.

[00:15:46] Scott W. Luton: Tell us how your really feel, Jake? Hey,

[00:15:50] Jake Barr: Karin’s a yap. It’s got me wound up.

[00:15:53] Karin Bursa: Well, I have to look up the word Karin so everybody knows you beat

[00:15:58] Scott W. Luton: Me to Karin. I

[00:15:59] Karin Bursa: Want to pull out one. I agree.

[00:16:01] Scott W. Luton: I want to pull out one quick illustration. Let’s see if I’m picking up what Jake’s putting down, Karin, correct me if I’m wrong, talking about the consequences of countless notifications. If you’re given a heads up by the US Postal Service that your junk mail will be a week late, who cares? But if you get notification from the USPS that your paycheck will be a month late, those two things aren’t the same, right? Context,

[00:16:30] Karin Bursa: Context, context, yes.

[00:16:32] Scott W. Luton: So share your thoughts on Jake’s first takeaway here.

[00:16:36] Karin Bursa: Yeah, so Jake’s first takeaway probably encapsulated several of mine, but I’m going to just take one.

[00:16:43] Karin Bursa: So the never normal, I think this is really an important theme. I think we have to recognize that there is always going to be another disruption. And what my number one was in this theme is actually tariffs. So tariffs were front and center as a discussion point in several sessions, but it was really because they create this latest disruption that we now have to replan our business. They have time phased consequences, cost associated with them. They may drive short-term changes and long-term restructuring of your supply chain. So lots of different scenarios back to that scenario discussion as well. But number one for me, more the number of sessions that focused on tariffs and how to model plan scenarios or restructure your network to be more resilient over time.

[00:17:48] Scott W. Luton: Yes, and Karin, I’ll tell you and Jake both, y’all probably heard it as well, all the folks that came in and out to be interviewed and all the sidebar conversations we had, chief supply chain officers, you name it, all of them shared relief that they had an opportunity to have private sidebar conversations with their peers to figure out what they are doing about this trade environment and many others. And it was palpable. And there’s very few events that offer those types of moments throughout the sessions. So great call outs, Jake and Karin, and we’re just getting started folks. So Karin, I think we’re going to stick with you and get your next key takeaway. Please share.

[00:18:31] Karin Bursa: Yeah, so I’m going to also leverage something you said. So in Ken Chadwick’s session, so Ken Chadwick is a Gartner analyst.

[00:18:39] Scott W. Luton: He

[00:18:40] Karin Bursa: Had the opening keynote session, but one of the stats he shared was that 19% of leaders say that they have integrated scenarios into their strategy, that they’ve got the ability to run their scenarios and leverage those scenarios and have it be just an integrated way that they respond to opportunities, threats, risks, whatever may be on the horizon. Well, scenarios have been around forever, right? The need for scenarios. What is changing now is that technology is allowing us to run those scenarios faster, to drive more intelligence in them by leveraging artificial intelligence as a part of that process, and to be able to also harness external data so that we’re getting a read on what the latest activities are or opportunities are in the marketplace. So scenarios are important. That’s not new. What’s new and different is that technology is moving forward faster than ever before in the ability to run those scenarios, to churn through massive quantities of data, to triangulate against market signals, to present, not just visibility, what you said, Scott, but to help you understand what to do with it. What should we prescribe to help our team have the biggest impact possible?

[00:20:15] Scott W. Luton: Karin and Jake, I’m going to get you, I saw you applauding Karin’s outstanding point there, but I want to share a little aside, kind of to her point, when Star Wars was released, that was the fourth installment of the long running series. They had the first three anecdotes or the first three chapters, but the technology wasn’t available at the time to really give those first three stories, the full vision and to be able to do all the special effects. It just wasn’t there yet. The great news that Karin is sharing is now we can realize the power of scenario planning and scenario modeling, all that stuff like never before. And that’s what organizations are doing. Maybe not enough, but Jake, that’s one of the findings here, not enough. Your thoughts here on Karin’s key takeaways?

[00:21:05] Jake Barr: Yeah, Karin hit it on the head. Fundamentally. Look, what we were at is the tipping point where scenario modeling has been around forever. Unfortunately, it’s been something you kind of ran and sat on the shelf. You didn’t have a way to make it real to actually advise you that the things you were modeling are actually beginning to happen and therefore you need to pay attention, right? Because it was turning into real world, not just some exercise. So that’s what the collision of being able to do, the scenario modeling and the AI bring the ability to real time, evaluate the data, ingest it into the operation, and identify the triggers that are the important elements of consequence for you to then say, Hey, what I was wanting to model and check on is now becoming to life and we need to turn it into action.

[00:22:10] Scott W. Luton: Well said. Well said. Jake. George Lucas, I was trying to think of the director, the producer, the creator of Star Wars. George Lucas wasn’t happy with the state of technology back then, but he is now. And gosh, here in the golden age of supply chain tech, it is amazing what, when focused on the consequential aspects of our day-to-day and what our teams are faced with, it’s amazing what technology is doing. Okay, Karin and Jake, we’ve got a lot more to get to, but hey, we take all kinds, including Alan’s comment, his key takeaway that was Gartner research based on the sessions he attended is a bit stale.

[00:22:51] Jake Barr: I’ve known Alan for decades, and I believe one of Val’s real insightful points about that isn’t as much the comment that it’s stale, it’s that things are evolving so fast, it’s hard for them to keep up. And we will get into a takeaway around AI and ag agentic ai, I think invite Karin, why don’t you talk about that?

[00:23:18] Karin Bursa: Yeah, absolutely. I agree with you a hundred percent. So last year, if you went to the 2024 Gartner Conference or Symposium, you would’ve been hearing gen ai. Everything was generational ai, conversational ai.

[00:23:34] Karin Bursa: This year we moved beyond that. So when you think of artificial intelligence, it’s typically referred to in three categories. So the traditional is more of the analytic ai. So you may think of this as machine learning, for example. The next would be this gen ai, which is really transforming the way we as humans interact with technology, how we ask questions, how we query scenarios, and how that gets presented back to us. What the conversation was about this year is ag agentic ai. So we are rapidly evolving the portfolio of artificial intelligence to solve a number of different problems and opportunities. And that was one of the big technology takeaways this year is that agentic AI capability, because that moves us further and further in actually being able to automate activities and to elevate where our humans, our supply chain experts need to engage and bring some creativity and think about how we make a bigger impact given a higher baseline of knowledge to work with so that we’re making better decisions every day. But this agentic AI was definitely thematically one of the big themes that I think everyone walked away with.

[00:25:04] Jake Barr: No doubt, Scott. This is why the networking piece is so critical because every business and every vertical are not moving at the same speed. And so you have lead pieces that are being done in different verticals and different businesses and different industry process types that if you’re going across and getting the insights from them, you’re much better able to formulate a better action plan at how you want to attack some of the problems. The maturity level that is just happening in the blink of an eye around some of the capabilities is staggering. And so you can’t just depend upon what you might be able to understand what’s going on, leveraging it from others who are in it with you in other business situations. Just lifts the boat a lot faster to be able to attack it.

[00:26:10] Scott W. Luton: Well said, both. I love, I’m learning. I feel like I’m getting a masterclass from the two of y’all here. And Karin, I love going back to your point, how you illustrated the evolution of AI and the different types of ai. And it made me think both of y’all’s points here. Jake, we had done lots of great shows lately. I’ll tell you, production challenge has been ramped up, but we’ve talked a lot about orchestration. And by the way, I’m very grateful of that. I love what we do here, but the technology and the AI that both of you’re speaking to is really fueling this orchestration, whereas it’s not just about optimizing decision making, which is important. It’s a big priority, always has been. But in this case, with orchestration and some of the other developments we’re seeing, it’s eliminating a lot of decisions that humans have to make to begin with. And so

[00:27:01] Jake Barr: It’s completely changing what work humans need to pay attention to. And I’m going to say in a very positive way

[00:27:12] Voice Over: Because

[00:27:12] Jake Barr: I don’t want to pay people to be firefighters to resolve the process outcomes I should have been in control of, right? Because if the line’s going to go off what I call center line of performance of maximum yield and throughput and et cetera, I don’t want to wait until it’s in a jump in to be able to react to it like the fork, the house is on fire. So I get at it. So I applaud you, Scott, for the analogy because it is, it’s transformative in what we direct people to engage on because we have so much, again, new normal, right? Never normal, never normal, so much hitting ‘em. It’s overwhelming the baseline capabilities of our people to try and keep up with all the variations in the permutations. Yes. Yeah,

[00:28:09] Karin Bursa: Permutation.

[00:28:10] Karin Bursa: And it’s better to prevent a late order than to give me visibility of a late order than to report a late order. So what artificial intelligence is enabling us to do is to prevent some of those disruptions, those problems or respond to them faster when they do occur. But the bottom line is AI is real and the use cases are being proved out time and time again. So look at fit for purpose and leverage that track record of success. You don’t have to create it yourself. That’s a long pathway to innovation. Work with your technology partners, tap into some new technology in the marketplace, but those supply chain specific fit for purpose use cases are available. And it’s not hype, it’s real and it’s exciting. But think in terms of can I prevent a late order versus can I report on one faster or can I put an alert on my dashboard or give visibility? Because the next thing is what am I going to do with that? How do I respond?

[00:29:26] Jake Barr: And it’s a perfect segue into one of the other key takeaways from the overall event, because I walked around and I felt vindicated in a way because I have been pontificating and stressing to people for a number of years. Look, you have a choice. You can have your supply chain as your biggest risk to your business, or it can be a strategic weapon. And I will submit to you that I saw a number of light bulbs go on during the two days where folks were going, holy, we need to, we need to get moving because we are at risk.

[00:30:24] Scott W. Luton: Yes, holy cow, we need to get moving. See what I did there? See what I

[00:30:29] Karin Bursa: Did? Nice. Very nice, Scott. Alright,

[00:30:32] Scott W. Luton: One more thing from the home of Chick-fil-A.

[00:30:34] Jake Barr: I see.

[00:30:34] Scott W. Luton: That’s right. That’s right. Consequences and consequential is one of the themes we’ve talked a lot about. And Jake and Karin, I’m going to keep it real. Had I known where we would be ai, innovative technology, this golden age of tech in general, man, I would’ve stuck with coding back in, let’s see here, January 96 when I started in computer science in college, I got sick of coding really quick and I changed majors. Oh, the consequences of that bad, bad decision. I should have stuck with it. Okay, Karin and Jake, Jake, I think we’re going back to your serve here in the Wimbledon of supply chain. Your next key takeaway,

[00:31:20] Jake Barr: I think it’s Karin’s Turn.

[00:31:22] Scott W. Luton: Oh, Karin, okay,

[00:31:24] Karin Bursa: I’ll take it. And I think thematically it ties together some of the things that we’ve talked about already. And even something you mentioned, Scott, on visibility, I think that this year they finally got across that visibility is not enough. And what I mean by that is when I talk with chief supply chain officers, invariably every initiative that they’re investing in, you will see one of their top three goals for those investments is visibility. But my next question is already, always, what are you going to do with that visibility? What action is that going to drive? How long will it take you to use that visibility to do something? So I think at this year’s Gartner Symposium, there was recognition that visibility is not enough that we need to move beyond that tracking or presentation of status, if you will, to action oriented capabilities, prescriptive capabilities that drive meaningful outcomes.

[00:32:33] Scott W. Luton: Yes. What are you going to do with that visibility, that hard fault, high invested consequential because there’s a return on effort. Let’s not forget that return on effort, a return on energy with any initiative. So when you go through all of that to get it, Karin’s asking a billion dollar question, what are you going to do with it? Jake, your thoughts on what Karin has shared?

[00:32:56] Jake Barr: Well, visibility. It has been, and I agree with Karin, they did a good job of finally saying, Hey, the so what here, right?

[00:33:06] Karin Bursa: Yep.

[00:33:06] Jake Barr: Fundamentally, you can have thousands of daily disruptions in logistical flows, et cetera, et cetera. You can filter them down to the two or 300 that you believe have a consequence, but you actually need the new tech, the agen capability to work your way across the business. So I have an update, it’s on a logistics flow of material that’s supposed to support a plant for production, or I have packaging materials that are going to a kiting center to make blister packs, et cetera. Or I have a finished product shipment that’s had a disruption that was going to a distribution point for breakout, picking for fulfillment of customer works, all of them real disruptions. But do they really have a consequence? Because, I hate to say it, but Scott, as you know, we have this thing called the bull whipp effect, and we’ve been buffering and portions of the supply chain for years with crappy piles of inventory that cost us a lot of money.

[00:34:18] Jake Barr: And quite frankly, a lot of it shouldn’t be there and it’s meant because of the volatility. So we’ve got folks that are still building the piles to the ceiling. We’ve got folks that are challenging it saying, Hey, nope, don’t need it. What I really need to do is I need to orchestrate and tie my supply chain in Dan tighter together so that I can know those, when those blips occur, whether it’s going to really affect the fact that the picking for the blister packs is 3:00 PM this afternoon, and that truck, even though it’s delayed, it’s going to get here at one and will still be able to manage the disruption, right? So it’s the turning the visibilities into the consequence for the adjoining processes, right?

[00:35:04] Scott W. Luton: I like it. So the folks are the good folks over at Microsoft, home of Microsoft Excel, which is traditionally powered most of supply chain, whether we like to admit it or not, are they shaken in their boots yet at where orchestration is going? Karin, are they shaking in their boots yet?

[00:35:21] Karin Bursa: I don’t know. We seem to hold onto our Excel spreadsheets like they’re a security blanket, but they really, most often, and this isn’t related to Microsoft per se, it’s related to how we’re using that technology to do supply chain planning and scenario analysis. And what happens most often is that those Excel spreadsheets or those Excel workbooks are error prone. There’s too many ways to break it, to lose your links, to do a variety of things, but most of the time, Scott, the little dirty secret is that those Excel spreadsheets are introducing risk

[00:36:03] Scott W. Luton: Even

[00:36:03] Karin Bursa: If it’s simply that that data is disconnected from the rest of your plan. That may sound very simplistic, but that could be the one piece of information you need in order to respond effectively. And so when we think of data latency and things along those lines, you’re not helping yourself by plugging gaps in your business process with an Excel spreadsheet.

[00:36:26] Jake Barr: I’ll be blunt, if you’re going to keep hanging onto your Excel spreadsheets, hang the damn going out of business, sign outside. No, Scott, it’s true. In order to fuel, as Karin is correctly pointed out, in order to fuel putting one of those together, you are downloading stale data.

[00:36:45] Karin Bursa: You are

[00:36:47] Jake Barr: From various sources. By the way, none of the sources are actually timed with the data pools. So you are making conjecture on top of stale data insertion of multiple data attributes. It’s suicidal, okay? Yes,

[00:37:06] Jake Barr: It weren’t when we weren’t in a case of never normal, you had enough reaction time and firefighters to be able to make up for some of your poor judgmental mistakes relative to that, but that is not going to fly as we move. First, I want to give a tip of the cap to the Microsoft team as well, because even they have been moving the ball. That’s right. So the investments they’ve made in the Azure platform and how it is literally helping to fuel a lot of folks in their AI in insertion and adoption is very good,

[00:37:48] Scott W. Luton: Jake? I completely agree and we’ve enjoyed a lot of conversations illustrating some of the cool things that Microsoft’s doing, including how they are investing in some of the most important conversations that we need to be having in global supply chain, such as, we had a great webinar this week, which General Allen and Car Jose all about critical raw materials and it was a wake up call, okay, Jake and Karin, man, I knew you’re on fire. And it’s not due to the heat. It is due to what you are sharing here today. I got to share a couple. It’s heat

[00:38:20] Jake Barr: And humidity. Remember heat and better normal’s. Never normal, Scott. Multiple amines.

[00:38:27] Scott W. Luton: Alright, so Jake and Karin, Karin led last time, so I think I’m back to Jake now. There’s a pattern here. I think. Jake, what’s the next key takeaway here?

[00:38:37] Jake Barr: I was pleased, Scott, that the topic of change management was out in the open

[00:38:47] Jake Barr: Look making advances in supply chain. It’s gainful lifetime employment because the moment we make an improvement, the next challenge comes upon us, right? It’s always been that way and it’ll always be that way, right? You change the portfolio, consumer or customer or patient requirements change, everything changes again. But you always bring it back to the three-legged stool process people, technology never more. Has there been a, I’ll call it a more crucial period how you think through your movement of changing processes and changing the way you’re dealing with the technology you might be introducing and what organization model is best to be able to accomplish that. There is, I’ll call it a healthy understanding, growing that because of the never normal, we really need to invest more in thinking through how we pull off these shifts in how we want to orchestrate the supply chain.

[00:39:56] Scott W. Luton: Well said Jake, Karin, your reaction to Jake’s key takeaway there.

[00:40:02] Karin Bursa: Yeah, I agree. So in the presentation you mentioned, so in Ken Chadwick’s session, he made a statement that said, change is easy, transition is hard and real transformation is emotional. It’s not just transactional. And so that change management and realizing that this is going to be an iterative process, we have to continue to change. We’ve talked about how rapidly AI is changing, right? So transformation and change management need to become part of our culture, especially in these critical processes which are supply chain. It is the business, it is how we bring product to market and satisfy customer needs. Therefore, it is how a business drives revenue. The other data point that was shared in that session was that Gartner believes that only 40% of users fully leverage new systems that are deployed. I’m going to disagree with that. I think the number is smaller. I think it’s probably in that realm of about 20%. I think a lot of companies do their initial deployment or they do what they’ve always done in a new way, and they don’t leverage doing things differently or fully exploiting the capabilities of the solutions that they’ve put in place. So there’s a lot of untapped transformation opportunity probably right under your fingertips today if you’ve got the momentum and the energy and the change management to continue to evolve over time.

[00:41:45] Jake Barr: Yep. Oh man, I couldn’t agree more. In fact, I think I’m going to bring us back. As you know me, I grew up in the production operations, et cetera, people, and even in the marketing context, Karin, as you highlighted, well, it’s critical even in this never normal state that you invest in setting up lighthouses, I’ll call it. So lead efforts where you can lead model your way into this is the new process and this is how the tech, this is what we expect the tech to be able to deliver. This is how I will train my people, and this is how we will use the data. Hey, wait a minute, this is the master data I’ll require. And this is how we have to make sure it’s right because these are the implications of how the process will change and this is the way I’m going to support the organization from a design standpoint.

[00:42:41] Jake Barr: All of those, the way I look at it today, are being underutilized and as such resulting in this, I’ll call it shotgun effect of trying to put in new tech or a new process, but not really live modeling it for understanding of outcome implications, for understanding of training and development of the people, qualifying ‘em on the skills they need. Really kicking the tires on the tech and making sure it’s delivering what it should be so that the support structures, because in a plan analogy, you’d never do that. You would never introduce new materials and a new product into the process slide without running what we call eos. Fundamentally, you’re doing experimental orders where you are validating your assumptions around how the process is going to run, what skills and how the execution of the steps are going to take place. Whether we’re really ready is a go, no go for scaling up. All of those are fundamental things, bedrock things that you got to fall back on in a never normal environment.

[00:43:56] Scott W. Luton: Yes. Alright, I wish we had a couple more hours, Jake and Karin, really good stuff. Must see TV here today. Let’s see. I’m going to share a couple of things here. Alan says, I saw more emphasis on master data and data integrity than I’ve ever seen before. It has always been there, but modern solutions and AI demand and obsession with data integrity.

[00:44:20] Jake Barr: And this is where the two come together too, Scott, because AI can actually tell you where your holes are, which unfortunately many of our siloed solutions were never built to tell you where the holes were in the data, right?

[00:44:36] Karin Bursa: No. And they can even create synthetic data. So where needed to plug a hole so that we can continue to plan or process as needed. The systems can be that much more intelligent and actually create that right and find the signal in the noise or find the right signal to respond to given the context of the problem to be solved or the risk to be averted.

[00:45:07] Scott W. Luton: Yep. Karin, all of our conversation here in this segment on data reminds me of our conversation we had just I guess last week with our friends from SAP where they’re making a major shift from being ERP centric to truly being data centric. So we’ll get an update from them maybe later this year. Also mentioned, folks, I’m going to tell you, you got to check this webinar out general, John Allen has done tremendous things. A four star retired marine general, he’s done things on behalf of the White House after a hall of fame career, and now he’s investing in critical conversations we got to be having in global supply chain circles, especially around a critical raw materials and the threat they pose to not just our supply chains but truly national security. Check out that webinar, it will be eyeopening, I promise you. Okay, lemme share this.

[00:45:58] Scott W. Luton: So Tom Enright, Jake and Karin Tom Enright. I’ve been reading Tom en Wright’s thoughts and perspectives and research for a very long time. And in Orlando I had a chance to sit down with him and interview Tom Enright and it was wonderful, but really, I mean there’s a reason he’s always in the Wall Street Journal and other leading publications. Folks will know what’s on his mind. Check out these two nuggets that he shared in his keynote well received keynote at Gartner, one by 2028, 60% of supply chain digital adoption efforts will fail to deliver promised value due to a lack of investment and learning and development. Secondly, and I think we may disagree with the second point, but I’m going to share it because it’s good for conversation and dialogue. By 2028, 15%, 15% of day-to-day supply chain decisions will be made autonomously by AI agents freeing up humans to focus more on critical decisions. Jake respond to either one of, or Karin, Karin respond to either one of those.

[00:47:07] Karin Bursa: Yeah, so the second point that you just mentioned. So 15 1 5, 15% of day-to-day decisions automated. I think that number is going to be a heck of a lot higher. I think that we’re going to automate many of those tactical or short-term decisions so that we can elevate the impact that our people have. So I would look for a much higher automation in the future, and I think that in the next three years, we may see that as much as 30 and 40%, but then it changes the nature of the decisions that our talent is making. And they may be doing new and different things than they do today.

[00:47:53] Voice Over: So

[00:47:53] Karin Bursa: I think it’s going to create a lot of opportunity. It’s going to unleash some new creativity and problem solving, and it’s going to accelerate the impact that we’re able to make.

[00:48:05] Scott W. Luton: So Karin, I think you and Jake agree on that point. And so due to supply chain peer pressure, I’m agreeing with that point too. But this might be a case, Jake, what you were sharing earlier, velocity is moving so much faster that perhaps the next time they go back and analyze and research this one data point around just how much of our decision making is going to be truly made autonomously. To Karin’s point, it may go 30, 40% or even higher. Your thoughts, Jake?

[00:48:34] Jake Barr: Look, without question, Karin hit it on the hill ahead. I completely agree with her projections. In fact, I think it’s going to be spot on. The one thing supply chain professionals, especially leadership, really focus on is the dearth of transaction mass. So it drives the way you think about managing your supply chain just simply because of volume and complexity. So fundamentally, you’re going to see the insertion of AI in an operational sense where that transaction mass is highest from a process sense. And because of that, by default, that percentage is going to be higher. But I want to give Thomas Duke, his perspective on the learning component is absolutely spot on, right? So I’ll give you two quick snapshot examples of where we’re trying to flip that one upside down too. So I’m engaged with a firm that’s actually doing online monitoring using AI about the level of competency of the individuals and actually executing certain processes. So what sequence are they following and stepping through steps, things that they’ve been trained on, right, to execute and to operate. And so you then step back and say, well, if there’s deviation, is it human capabilities or is it we simply haven’t invested enough in the job aids on how to deal with certain conditions. So fundamentally, I think we’re also seeing a massive spring forward in the investment and the use of AI for not only learning and development, but importantly skill qualification.

[00:50:31] Karin Bursa: Well, and I would say the other kind of layer on that is that with technology, with ai, we can now bring people up to speed faster so that they don’t have the extended learning curve that they may have had in the past. The fact that I can now take what my best planner does and replicate that or even improve upon that faster so that all of my team members are executing at that level of competency, I think is a huge value proposition for lots and lots of roles throughout supply chain.

[00:51:14] Scott W. Luton: Well said, Karin and Jake. Alright, I’m having so much fun. I took my off the clock and we’ve got to move into wrap up, but I’ve got two more quick questions for you both. I wanted to just do some housekeeping here. Hey folks, check out my interview with Tom in Wright right here. It’s an easy YouTube way to consume. In fact, you can check out all of our interviews from Gartner. I’ll tell you, hard hitting good stuff. Challenging, challenging everyone’s assumptions. And then secondly, secondly, this question as we start to wrap Karin and Jake. So it’s hard to believe, I felt like we were just talking about the Super Bowl now it’s almost July 4th, so we’re moving into the second half of the year. I want to ask you both, what is one thing that supply chain leaders out there have got to keep their eyes on as we get through the second half of the year? And Jake, why don’t you go first?

[00:52:08] Jake Barr: I think it’s simple, and that is supply chain leaders must be even more committed than they have been in the past to personal education. We’re managing in a never normal time. And so as such, you have to challenge am I personally competent enough in what I know and what I can do to help strategize and determine the right plans for the organization. So I would push you on the fact that even a takeaway, if you were in the leadership roles and you were there at the Gartner event, that should have been a good wake up session set of sessions for you to attend.

[00:52:56] Scott W. Luton: That’s right.

[00:52:57] Jake Barr: You’re in a never normal moment and I still have to create a path forward. How do I do that? Am I ready myself to actually provide that leadership

[00:53:11] Scott W. Luton: Critical questions to ask ourselves? For sure. Jake, good stuff there. Karin, same question. What’s one thing supply chain leaders got to keep their eye on as we get into July and the rest of the year?

[00:53:22] Karin Bursa: Yeah, it’s artificial intelligence and it goes hand in hand with what Jake is saying about personal education and comfort with where technology is going. The AI space is evolving so quickly and the value proposition is very high. I want you to remember that we can look both at more granular precision in our operations as well as multiple time horizons. So not just what’s happening in the next couple of hours, the next day, the next week, what’s happening in the next few years for our business. So the ability to navigate horizons and granularity and do it with speed at scale for your business is going to change the way we operate our supply chains. And I think that’s one of the things that Jake said in his opening comment about Never normal. Our roles are going to be increasingly more important and the work we do is going to continue to evolve.

[00:54:31] Scott W. Luton: Yes, well said. At speed, at scale, at speed with scale rather. Love that Karin and yours as well, Jake folks, check out again, be prepared, plan well ahead. We’re all planners. We know that some are better than others maybe, but check out and get ready for Gartner Supply Chain Symposium 2026, may as fast as we’re moving. That’s going to be here before you know it. So check that out. Also, Amanda and Joshua, big thanks, all your help behind the scenes. Karin, how can folks track you down, Karin Bursa, the 2023, I think supply chain pro to know the one. Karin, how can folks connect with you?

[00:55:14] Karin Bursa: Yeah, so that was 20 20, 20 20. Oh, okay. In my, please connect with in my book 20 23 2, please connect with me on LinkedIn. That’s a great way to reach out. I’d love to collaborate with you or to learn more about what you’re doing in these areas or happy to answer any questions or dive deeper on these topics.

[00:55:33] Scott W. Luton: Good stuff, good stuff. Make sure you do that. Jake Barr, the John Wayne of Global Supply Chain, supply chain Hall of Famer. How can folks track you down? My friend

[00:55:43] Jake Barr: LinkedIn is the best. Don’t bother my cell phone. There’s too many messages waiting to get answered off of that. And then as Karin aptly pointed out before, it’s always at the bar area at one of the Gartner events.

[00:55:59] Scott W. Luton: So true. He’s like a ringleader. He’s the mayor. If you’re at that biggest supply chain, happy hour of the year, be sure to find Jake and probably Karin. And next year I’ll be me too. I’m going to take my vitamins, put my big boy Britches on and wade into the happy hour. Alright folks, what a great, great session here today. Goodness gracious, the heat, good things are coming. It’s going to be cool. It’s going to be fall and football weather before you know it. And while that’s wonderful from a temperature standpoint, it also means we’re going to be losing time and we’ve got to act on the great advice and perspective and expertise that we heard here from Karin Bursa and Jake Barr here today. So with that said, on behalf of our entire team, hope you enjoy this conversation as much as I did. But folks, take one thing, you got homework. Take one thing that you heard here from Karin or Jake or them both, put in the action, action, share it with your team, do something with it, right? That’s the challenge that we all have. And with that said, on behalf of the entire supply chain now, team Scott Luton challenging you, do good, give forward, be the change that’s needed, and we’ll see next time right back here on Supply chain now. Thanks everybody.

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