Dhruv Arora:

This gap between saving and investing is going to be near zero. It's working for you. You will basically be perpetually invested. Your saving account becomes an investing account, and then whenever you need the money it's available near instantly.

Bianca:

The voice you just heard was Dhruv Arora, CEO of Syfe, a digital wealth management platform out of Singapore.

Nora:

Syfe's mission is simple, making investing accessible and intuitive so that saving and growing your money happens seamlessly in the same place.

Bianca:

But what does that vision look like in practice? How do you build a company around it? And what might it tell us about the future of wealth management?

Nora:

On this episode of Fintech Files from BCG Platinion, I sat down with Dhruv to hear how Syfe is approaching the challenge.

Dhruv's career started in traditional finance on the trading floor at UBS in Hong Kong.

Bianca:

Immersed in the fast pace of global markets, he developed a lasting interest in how people build and grow wealth.

Dhruv Arora:

Somewhere in the course of that journey, you realize, "Okay, what next? Is this what it's meant to be?" Because I was in banking, a lot of my friends and come and ask, "What do you do with your money?" All of us were making a lot more money than our parents ever made because people were making, they were actually spending also. But given that we grew up in Asia, this habit of saving was actually quite persistent. You speak to my mom, the number one financial advice is put money in the bank. But I think what was the realization that was coming to people was this money is not really growing the way it should and that $100 in the bank is not $101 because you get this $1 interest, it's probably close to $98 because of inflation.

So this was actually a bit of an interesting point where people started realizing that, hey, if I don't invest, I'm actually losing out. So saving itself as an action, while it might be good, it's actually a negative ROI, so as to speak. And that was, to begin, a bit of genesis about starting Syfe where I felt there's a huge opportunity. Banking was great. Our clients were essentially people who would, on a bad day, invest hundreds of millions of dollars, and on good days, invest billions of dollars. But the average, the middle class, the growing middle class, et cetera, there was nothing really for them.

Nora:

It's in this growing middle class, or what you call mass affluent, that Dhruv and his team saw a real opportunity.

Bianca:

So basically, these are the people with investible assets that range from a few hundred thousand dollars to a few million, and Syfe has been focused on servicing that market ever since launching in 2019. They've built a global customer base focused on Singapore, Hong Kong, and Australia. And the market has huge potential.

Nora:

You know, Bianca, there is actually a BCG Global Wealth Report from 2025 that predicts Asia Pacific will lead global wealth creation. It's projected to grow at a compound annual rate of 9% per year for the next four years. And of course, with that massive opportunity, there also come hurdles. In our next part of the conversation, Dhruv and I dived into how he and his team are adapting to those hurdles.

Dhruv Arora:

I think the challenge that we faced was more in the trust building side of things because historically people have been served by the large banks and large financial institutions. Why is a new player like you, why should I move my money to you? The first couple of years, I think that was at least here in Singapore, that was one of the biggest, biggest challenges that we had. When we further expanded to Hong Kong, the same thing happened. But in Hong Kong, unfortunately there were some almost not companies like us, but do exchanges, et cetera, growing down. There I think what we were really competing was fear because people have had a case where they've lost money and there's no sight of these companies. And then we are to say, "Hey, we are in Singapore, we've got a track record. We are backed with some of the best financial investors, we manage billions of dollars." And that has what has led to growth.

And in Australia, the challenge that we faced actually was inertia because people have good lives and people actually have a higher per capita earning. They are probably investing is not really a must do, people are a lot more focused in accumulating cash. So that inertia, how do you have people switch from this, "Hey, let me just make money," to actually make my money work for you?

Nora:

Not just buy a home. I guess that's the default investment you have in Australia.

Dhruv Arora:

I was going to say that. Exactly, just keep on saving for a home. We are like now, sure, save for a home, but if you invest for a home, the likelihood of you actually getting your home is going to be much quicker and you won't be spending the next 30, 40 years of your life just paying mortgages.

Nora:

I'd be keen to understand how do you actually gain the trust of those customers in a market where they are not yet used to investing?

Dhruv Arora:

A fun story is that when we started, our highest tier was $10,000. We are like, "Look, who's going to give us 10,000?" And then somebody gave us 20, so we moved our highest tier to 50. Then somebody gave us 75, so we moved to 100. And then it kept on moving up, and just where we stand today our highest tier is $5 million and we have multiple individuals who have put north of $10 million with us. So it's been quite a journey from that $10,000 limit, but you're absolutely right.

I think in the earliest phases, what really was a differentiator for us was I would say two things. I think firstly, unique product. We were not trying to build a run of a mill offering like everyone else did. We were actually focusing a lot more on what is the job to be done for a user? So I'll give an example. In Singapore, we have a very good pension plan called CPF. Then people typically have houses because public housing is quite popular and people generally have good jobs. So you're quite heavy domestically focused, a lot of your wealth is domestic. So the job to be done for some people is how do I diversify away? And then you build that global portfolio for that purpose.

The second thing actually was around education. I remember in the earliest days, we had offline sessions, including the first one which had about 13 people, out of which I think eight were our staff, four were vendors, and there was one client. I remember all of us huddling around this one client. The last one we did had probably about 500 people at the venue and about a few thousand online, so that's the evolution.

And I think the third thing that we did was we removed the barriers from investing. We were very clear, look, I don't say our average user, that you should invest $1, but the way how we built our platform from day one and that focus on technology around rationalization across everything we did. Whether you invested $1 or whether you invest $1 million, it was the same outcome. So we talk about access, advise, and affordability, so focusing on those three things. Then more making it user-centric was probably how we've managed to gain trust. And today, for scale, we serve about 250,000 users in Singapore, which is about 8% of all the adults are on the platform. And I think that is something which has helped us get a lot more credibility as we want from our first 100,000, to first million, to 10 million, and now we've publicly declared we manage well over 10 billion US dollars.

Bianca:

Let's pause on those numbers for a minute.

Nora:

For a company that only launched in 2019, that is serious market traction.

Bianca:

But how did they get there?

Nora:

You can break it down into three moves. First, giving money a job. Putting it to work through diversification instead of letting it just sit in cash or property.

Bianca:

Second, education. Helping people understand what investing can actually do for them.

Nora:

And third, removing barriers. Making it possible to start small and scale from there.

Bianca:

Together, those moves turned early traction into widespread adoption.

Dhruv Arora:

We thought a lot of our earlier users would be those who have never invested, but in reality what became quite evident, I would say within the first year, was two out of three of our users were existing users, but they just did not know how to do better. And that's why they maybe invested a small portion of their wealth, and a big part of it was through [inaudible 00:08:27] and saving accounts. But even five years ago, if you withdrew from a fund, you had to pay 3% exit loan and 5% entry loan. So there were a lot of these artificial barriers that were created by the providers. When you remove those barriers, you remove that kind of inertia. And you say, "Hey, actually, this is as good as, in some ways a smart way to save or a smart way to invest. And hey, if you need the money, you can get this money back in two days, in almost a day in many cases." And the gap is only shrinking as technology is advancing and the settlement cycles are reducing.

Nora:

Of course, every market has its quirks. In the US, regulators have been making headlines with forward-looking moves on digital assets.

Bianca:

But in Singapore, the story has been about balance, a regulatory sandbox that allows innovation under guardrails. Then, loosens restrictions once companies mature.

Nora:

That balance has shaped how Syfe grew, and it also points to the kinds of innovations that may emerge.

Dhruv Arora:

I think the first one is around the actual, actual implementation of stable coins and blockchain for us. And I would say what that literally translates in our world would be instant settlement cycles. It's quite interesting. If you speak to my 18-year-old nephew, he's surprised that stocks take a day or two to settle because he's so used to being on one of the crypto platforms. "Hey, it's instant. Why hasn't this happened?"

Nora:

Everything instantly.

Dhruv Arora:

Yeah, exactly. What do you mean there's T+2 on everything? Then I almost feel like some of the I guess incumbents are holding on for a bit longer than they should, but there's only a matter of time. And you're seeing this already happen in payments. Before, it would take you four days to move money across borders, now it's near instant in many cases. If that gap between actually acting and having the money reduces, we believe that focus will move a lot more into investing. Which, as we mentioned earlier, I don't think it's an option anyway, it's a necessity in the world that we are ending because I think inflation will remain, interest rates are not going to [inaudible 00:10:30] any time soon, so you need to do something with your money.

And I think the second thing is personalization and digital advice. Historically, one of the big perks of being associated with a private bank over one of those large entities was the fact that you could get this high quality banker giving very personal to me kind of advice and it made sense. I came from one of the leading global banks and it would make sense if you're going to pay the bank a few million dollars as commissions in a year. But if a client only has a few hundred thousand dollars to invest and you're going to make half percent, 1%, there is no chance you can give them that high quality, top quality human kind of advice.

So the only way this can be solved is digitally and we are doing it already on our side. To give you an example, 2.5 years ago, all our clients would get a standard market wrap. Today, we're testing it with a set of users, if there are three of us, each of three will get a personalized, "This is the market wrap that matters to you."

Nora:

Do you accept this evolution to be any different, let's say in Asia or in Australia, compared to some of the western markets, or do you think we're all moving somewhat in the same direction, the same speed?

Dhruv Arora:

Historically in fintech, you have seen typically the west lead the way, US specifically. But then there are certain areas where you see things are very different, like the payment wallet rails in China, like Alipay, or even in India, stuff like UPI. This is way ahead of whatever has existed. We are still paying checking bank, in the US you're still getting charged for checking bank accounts and that kind of stuff, which is inexistent.

I would say that everyone's moving together in that kind of same direction. I think this would become a function of the talent in markets, plus also what regulation allows and does not allow. I think given what has happened, let's say for example in the digital asset space, you would expect US to actually be front running a lot of the countries in the world in that regard. And my hunch is other countries will follow suit one way or the other because they feel they will get left out. So I think there's going to be a case by case kind of thing, but it becomes a function of talent, regulation, and also necessity. I think what a UPI has done for, let's say India's growth and transaction volume, is unprecedented. But the reason why also it was needed was because you could not issue trade cuts to everyone like you could probably in the US.

I would expect typically the wealth journey to be more pronounced in developed markets. I think it would be a function of where the wealth is. And I would probably say that you would see that pretty good innovation still carrying on maybe from the western countries, and then some interesting more localized cases coming up from, let's say the developed nation countries.

Nora:

Syfe may already manage billions today, but it's still in a startup phase. Scaling fast, refining its model, and looking ahead to the next stage of growth.

Bianca:

The question now is how and where that growth will come. Which markets hold the most promise, and what strategies will get them there?

Dhruv Arora:

I really believe despite all the growth, we've only captured just the tip of the iceberg in that aspect of things. The reality is the rate of wealth growth that's happening in this market actually is quite phenomenal, and also the way how that middle class or that mass affluent class is growing.

So going deeper in these markets by being truly a holistic wealth partner versus just being another transaction platform is something that we would really love to double-down on. We raised our Series C recently, which is actually to fuel this level of growth. After we've built comfort in the markets that we operate in, to find similar markets. And I think for now, our focus probably will remain around APAC, so markets such as North Asia, markets such as the Middle East actually seem extremely promising.

Of course, we have to find the right channels of going there. For example, in North Asia, we would prefer to partner rather than just go ourselves. Middle East, similarly, we could either partner or consider organically. But I would say between going deeper in our markets and considering these markets, I think we're going to have our hands quite full over the next three to five years, and I think the opportunity only grows there.

I give an example to people, Nora. If you are an average Uber user, you might use it twice in a week. If you're a power user, you use it 10 times. But that gap is 2 and 10. Sure, you might have busy weeks here and there, but generally this gap is 5X. In our case, if you're an average user, you have $25,000. If you're a power user, you have $25 million. And that's something to just keep in mind, that gap is really, really huge. But there's something else. This wealth is growing. On average, we see in three years, our average user assets grow 4X. So whereas, let's say for Uber, that it's capped out at the number of rides you will have, and of course now they have other verticals and everything. That wealth, it kind of is a negative churn, as we say. It just grows as the people grow and I think that's what makes the whole domain quite a unique domain.

Nora:

So let's remember that Syfe has built its business around the mass affluent. Those are the people who are wealthy enough to invest, first of all. And they are digitally mature enough to do it online.

Bianca:

But that doesn't mean that the segment is uniform, right? There's still very different needs and behaviors to accommodate.

Nora:

For example, investors from the older generations may have deeper wealth, whereas younger investors are just getting started. But how will things change, let's say in the next 10, 20, or 50 years, as the younger investors now become the older investors in the future?

Bianca:

Yeah. I'm curious how their needs evolve and what it means for wealth platforms like Syfe. More of this from Dhruv.

Dhruv Arora:

What has happened quite interestingly for us is that we see that a lot of our customers, for example, are referring their parents, especially for the lower risk offerings, like cash management and income funds, and so on and so forth. And I would say what we have seen interestingly is over the years, our average user age has moved up. And when we especially launch the lower risk, and this is probably again an interesting Asia specific phenomenon because generally people are a bit more conservative, at least here in Singapore. A similar trend actually we're finding in Australia. What we find is when the lower risk options, like a high yield, low risk kind of a product, they generally resonate quite well with the older generations. So I think they are coming in for that.

I think what's going to be quit fascinating to see over the coming decades is that across the world, and Asia is no exception, you're going to see one of the largest intergenerational wealth transfers. And take the case of Australia, where I think the expectation is there's going to be almost about $3.5 trillion of wealth that's going to change hands over the next 10 to 20 years. Now historically, you would expect that that is done the same way, and if I'm managed by banker, it goes to banker B. But the guys who are currently in their 20s or early 30s, et cetera, they are not going to go back to that same old school method of doing it. They probably know, "Hey, I can do it myself. Why am I paying just for buying a stock and keeping it, why should I pay you management fees? I can just do it myself." So I think that happening is quite unique.

And again, back to Australia. The number of advisors has shrinked from I think 30,000 to about 16,000. And in the next decade, they expect it'll come down to 5000. Now you've got 5000 advisors for about 14, 15 million adults. There is no way this is going to be done humanly, so it's going to be done digitally. So while their parents might have been more savvy to work through an individual because that was the only way, I think the shift is real and it's happening. And while the parents might give us 20% of their assets 80 still through the banker, the younger generation is probably going to be 80 to 100% through this channel.

Nora:

And how will Syfe respond to this? What's on your roadmap basically, to respond to these challenges?

Dhruv Arora:

I would say that it would not change much from what we are doing today. We talk about access, we talk about advice, we talk about affordability, we talk about education, and I think those things continue remaining. I think what does change is as the world evolves, how do you evolve with it?

To give you an example, when we started the business giving people access to their money in two days was considered good. Today, a few years from now, I expect that access to be near instant. That's how you're changing the thing. The advice which we give was we had a few human advisors and we would focus a lot on digital onboarding tools and all that, but reality was that they still had some limitations. That deep personalization which you could not do is something which we will carry on doing.

And the last one, I think we do pretty good on this already, is also the affordability. I think we've been quite a reasonable platform to invest and we keep our costs low. It's just that two out of our three of the team at Syfe works in technology. We've built the majority of our technology, if not all of it, in-house, proprietary, and custom-built for the end users. I think just doubling-down on how can we still be one of the best places for people from an affordability angle I think will be there. But again, as the world evolves, we will evolve with it. But I think the tenets of the business, I don't think that changes much if you ask me.

Nora:

Syfe's early years have been marked by rapid growth in an ever-changing financial landscape.

Bianca:

Which begs the question what does Dhruv see for the next decades of Syfe and fintech?

Dhruv Arora:

This gap between saving and investing is going to be near zero. It's working for you. You'll basically be perpetually invested. Your saving account becomes an investing account, and then whenever you need the money it's available near instantly. And I think that'll be quite an interesting time to live in because to some extent, if you see that is what Airbnb does with unutilized homes or Uber does with unutilized cars, well, why has that not be done with money? Money should be the easiest to do. Somebody can come and trash your house, but money, it's all collateralized, there's enough safety measures.

Nora:

So personalized.

Dhruv Arora:

Exactly, exactly. So it should be easy. And I think people see a divergence in the world where certain regulators will be forward-looking and they will allow for this divergence to happen, and I would say they would emerge as leaders. I think money remaining perpetually invested is something that I feel is going to be quite a commonplace in the next 10 years. And as also the team look there too, is off it, we'll either be using this product or we'll be building it, and would like to be the one building it for the markets we operate in and beyond. And it's possible, even in today's context, we think it's possible. Of course, it's a lot painful and it's a lot of friction, but it's possible and it's something that, as time passes by, I think we'll get more and more seamless, and that's something we're quite excited about.

Bianca:

There's so much to unpack from that interview, Nora.

Nora:

It was great talking to Dhruv. He was such an amazing guest.

Bianca:

I have a question for you. You just moved to Australia. Not just, but for a little while now. And what are you noticing about the financial landscape, to let's say what you've seen obviously across Europe, or even in the States?

Nora:

I would say it's three things that I observed. One is obviously it's just looking at the number of players. So you basically have four big banks in Australia, but the market is much more condensed. The second I noticed is when it comes to the products that are being used. And actually, I didn't know that before, but once I moved here, I noticed how big of a role home loans actually play. So when it comes to investing for Australians, investing in property is still the number one asset. And third, just working with a few banks over the last few months as part of my job at BCG Platinion, I noticed culturally how innovative banks are here. If you think of Europe for example, they are not necessarily the front-runners of innovation in those regions, but in Australia they are. So if other industries look at what's the next cool thing we can do in tech, what's the next big move, they look towards the banks and the banks are actually, they are experimenting with a lot of emerging technologies and that's an amazing thing to observe.

But, Bianca, you've worked across multiple regions. I feel like you've worked across the globe already. What is your view beyond Australia, but the Asia Pacific region? How does that stand out in terms of opportunity, challenges?

Bianca:

When you look at places like Singapore where our guest's headquarters are, they have made really early bets on clearer rules. It's no surprise to me that you see companies like Kraken be headquarters there. They have a digital identity infrastructure, quite progressive in terms of how they've done KYC which enables ... So thinks like having clear rules allows for direct investment to go in, it allows people to bet on licensing regimes and understand that they can build legislative businesses. So you've seen these things allow Asia Pacific to be miles ahead of some places.

And I think when you look at that, you see, one, the opportunity not to copy and paste, but to challenge and question, all right, how do we define wealth or access to wealth? Because for me, all this technology should be, and if you don't like it for the ethical reasons to do it, like it for growing the P&L and the balance sheet of a bank. How do you surface more people for less cost of risk capital and how do you so effectively?

So one of the themes that I thought it was really cool during your interview is something we've seen the head of private banking globally at Citi, which is an incredible woman, talk about the largest wealth transfer that society has ever seen. One, because we're measuring things we never measured before, and two, just because how the stock market has grown over time and how markets have matured. But then you look at this, you look at youth, and you look at youth's attachment to brands and trust, and where they get their advice from, which was another topic in the beginning of our season as well. What are some of the things that, beyond wealth management tech, that you're excited about, Nora?

Nora:

One thing that I am really curious about looking at the future of fintech, and especially that intergenerational wealth transfer is, well, if I think of ... Just take myself. When I landed my first job, I actually went to a bank because I thought that's what you want to do and get some advice on where to invest, what to do with your money. They advised me to invest in this, it's called a Bausparvertrag in German. It's not even a home loan, but it's an investment product that allows you to buy or build a home in the future and it was definitely not what I needed at this point in time. So I felt like, "Okay, what is even the point of going into a bank and getting advice from someone I don't even know, I don't trust?"

So what I did was I went to Google and I just informed myself, as in what are suitable products for me, what should I do with my money if I just start getting a stable income, basically. And actually, also going forward, I don't need that personal relationship with a banker. I would want radical transparency on what the great offerings out there and that means for the fintechs obviously and for banks, you just need to have the best product to win in the market.

Bianca:

Completely. And I feel like that's what open banking or any open data infrastructure or platform really allows you to do. So I feel like you'll question the notion of a financial relationship and this whole, holy world there's trust we so, so easily use, so hardly embodied.

Nora:

Fully agree. So, Bianca, obviously you've been working with a lot of regulators and institutions across the globe. What do you think are, let's frame it positively, the key success factors for banks and fintechs to stay innovative, to stay on top of the tech game basically and build that trust going forward?

Bianca:

I think a couple things. I think one is awareness, I think awareness in general of your career, but awareness of what your core competencies are currently either in your bank or in your fintech. So if you're really, really just good at payments ... Just good at payments. Payments is really difficult because we made it really difficult and we made it really complicated, and there's lots of acronyms, and certifications, and standard bodies, and regulators, and definitions. And I think with digital assets, we're doing the same. So when I saw awareness is knocking out what is the tech stack that makes you win? Whatever that value proposition is about your institution.

I think it's being inquisitive then about what is your practice as an organization to be in the know of all these latest and greatest? Other than listening to Fintech Files, but latest and greatest technology plays out there. Because as you're well aware, inside of not only BCG and BCG Platinion, you guys have tech tools and partners to be in the know of what are these things.

Nora:

So does it boil down to just having the right skills and knowledge? You know the old saying of we need the right talent, and then everything will be fine.

Bianca:

For sure, and focusing on your lane and your ability to contribute to a market. Let's face it, banking was not built for all. So just by definition, there's so much opportunity.

Nora:

So I may add one last thing, also. I have to bring in AI again. I know. But I think it is actually just the biggest example out there right now when it comes to how banks need to adopt emerging technologies because AI will significantly change, or it is already changing the way users interact with digital products. And banking, in the end, also is a digital product, especially for the younger generation. So being aware of what's happening out there or how AI is changing a classic user experience and just being there, keeping that interface to the customer, I think that will also be a critical success factor for banks and for fintechs.

Bianca:

This has been Fintech Files from BCG Platinion.

Nora:

This season, we're digging deep into the groundbreaking ideas that are reshaping the future of fintech and we've got some amazing guests lined up. I wish I could tell you, but I guess you're just going to have to wait and see. So make sure that you're subscribed to not miss the next episode. Thank you so much for tuning in, and we'll see you next time on Fintech Files.