World Collide is a podcast about moving abroad

>> Viktoria: Hi, listeners, and welcome to a new episode of Worlds Collide, the podcast about moving abroad. I'm your host, Victoria, and I wanna thank you for being here and for listening to my podcast. I appreciate it so much. And then, of course, I always mention it in the beginning. So if you are a frequent listener and you haven't done it yet, then why don't you leave me a five star rating at Apple Podcasts or Spotify or wherever you listen to a podcast that would help me immensely to be more recognized and get a, bigger audience. And then I have not really mentioned that before or not as much. You can also now listen to this podcast on YouTube. There are even a few videos. And yeah, you can also push the subscribe button there. And you will be one of the first subscribers, actually. And then, listeners, I have one question for you this time. I was wondering if there are questions that you would like me to ask my guest. So if you have any, or if anything comes to mind, then reach out to me. You can do this on Instagram, or you can also just shoot me a quick email. My, email is worldscollide123pod@mail.com. Yes. And, tell me your thoughts.

This week's podcast features guest Alex from Mexico

Okay, so now enough of that. So now I just want to do this quick introduction to this week's episode with my guest, Alex. Alex partner, Rachel. She was already on this podcast. she was here in this season, in episode seven. It had the name from Paris to DC, a french artist in America. And so, yeah, so this is kinda attached to her story because, like, she's coming up quite a lot in this episode. But Alex is originally from Mexico, and we talk a little bit about his childhood and then how he came to the US, and then he moved further for studying abroad in, Belgium and Ireland. And then how the story continues. Listen to yourself. Here's Alex's story.

Alex is from Mexico and moved to the United States when he was 19

>> Viktoria: Today. My guest is Alex. Hi, Alex, how are you?

>> Alex: Hey, how are you?

>> Viktoria: I'm good, and you?

>> Alex: Well, so far so good.

>> Viktoria: Well, so far so good. Let's see how it goes. Okay, so, where are you calling from right now?

>> Alex: I am in the Washington metropolitan area. Specifically, Northrop, Virginia.

>> Viktoria: And is this where you are from originally?

>> Alex: No, no, I'm originally from Guadalajara, Mexico.

>> Victoria: Okay, so this is where the story starts. I heard from your wife, she was also a guest on this podcast a few weeks ago that you moved away from Mexico when you were a little child.

>> Alex: yes. well, yes and no. we traveled a lot when I was a kid. to Texas. back to Mexico. And then I had an opportunity to spend a year, probably when, almost eleven, to Vancouver, Canada.

>> Victoria: okay.

>> Alex: Then we moved back and then went back to Mexico. And then? yes, and then eventually, moved to the United States. Yes.

>> Victoria: Okay.

>> Alex: Do you remember how old you were permanently, to move? Permanently? I was probably 19.

>> Victoria: okay, so you were not even like a child.

>> Alex: You were already adult as a child. We kind of live in Texas and move back to United States. Go back to Mexico. my father and my uncle, they had a business and we spent a lot of time in Texas.

>> Victoria: Okay, where in Texas was it?

>> Alex: McAllen. Around the border area between Reynosa and McAllen. Edinburgh, Texas. Very different now it's where you hear all those horrible stories about.

>> Victoria: Sorry. Yeah. I mean, I also live in Texas, but I still don't know where that is.

>> Alex: if you go down, do you know where, South Padre island is?

>> Victoria: Yes.

>> Alex: All right, so you go inland from there and it's about maybe 150 miles west of Brunswick.

>> Victoria: Okay. Ah. okay. So.

>> Alex: That's, that's about it.

Rachel came to the United States when she was 19 to study electrical engineering

>> Victoria: So you were in the United States when you were 19 and how long did you stay then?

>> Alex: well, I mean, I went, I came here in part because I went to university.

>> Victoria: Okay.

>> Alex: Moved out here to study first to Penn State, and then, I figured out that Penn State, yeah, I moved to, York, Pennsylvania. And. Because the Penn state system, I mean, it's a long story, but Penn state system, you don't go to the main system unless, anyway, you. I wanted to study electrical engineering and it was very difficult to get in at the time.

>> Victoria: Okay.

>> Alex: And after studying there for one year, it became very clear to me that I could not afford paying out of state tuition because I was not in any type of scholarship or anything.

>> Victoria: Oh, yeah, I was just wondering that because, I mean, the United States are famous for having outrageous prices for tuition.

>> Alex: Well, at the time I was already m an american. I had already green card.

>> Alex: Because when I was a child, there was this system of, it was called, border residency program doesn't exist anymore. Something that existed on the seventies.

>> Victoria: Okay.

>> Alex: Long story short, I was already in the US as a resident. And so although I was able to pay the same prices as, us citizens, meaning not international students, because obviously the difference is very big sometimes. I was not an in state resident in Penn State, so I decided to move to Maryland.

>> Victoria: Okay.

>> Alex: to go to University of Maryland, which is where they had a much more lenient policy on which if I lived as a resident in the state for six months, I could just change my plates, change my driver's license and put my legal residency in Maryland and I could be turned into an in state student.

>> Victoria: Mm,

>> Alex: And for me that was the difference between paying I think at the time it was $9,000 for a year to $2,500.

>> Victoria: Yeah, that's a huge difference.

>> Alex: It still is. I mean, it still is.

>> Victoria: Yeah, it still is.

>> Alex: So, yeah.

>> Victoria: Okay. And, and then you, you became an international student after this?

>> Alex: Well, I stayed here in the states. I finished my undergrad.

>> Alex: Then I went to study one of my masters to the University of Delaware. So m from the Washington. That's how I ended up in the DC area the first time. Because University of Maryland is right outside DC. It's in College Park, Maryland, which is basically the metropolitan area of DC. There is a metro stop from DC at the college park campus. Uh-huh so basically it's in DC, but it's still University of Maryland because it's on the limits of the state of Maryland.

>> Victoria: Okay. And, but, so, okay, so this is stupid, but were you not like super cold like all the time because you just moved from a very hot climate?

>> Alex: I think it's not very hot in Guadalajara, Harris.

>> Victoria: Okay. About Texas was.

>> Alex: Right, right? Yes. No, I mean it gets, it gets, yeah, Texas was very hot. I used to hate the summers in Texas. Like despise them with all my passion.

>> Victoria: I understand.

>> Alex: I ah, love Texas. I mean I really, really enjoyed my time over there. And I have cousins and I have family. I still have family in Texas.

>> Victoria: uh-huh

>> Alex: but Guadalajara is actually the second biggest city in Mexico and it's high in the mountains.

>> Victoria: Ah, ah, okay, so it's not as.

>> Alex: High, it's not as high as Mexico city, but it's don't remember. I think maybe it's 1500 meters above sea level.

>> Victoria: So you have like a nice breeze.

>> Alex: Oh, it gets cold, it gets like minus, it gets below zero.

>> Victoria: oh, okay.

>> Alex: In the winter.

>> Victoria: So you have seasons for all four seasons?

>> Alex: Eight seasons in the mornings.

>> Victoria: Ah, yeah. Okay.

>> Alex: Because it gets very cold in the mornings and then by noon it's about 24 celsius or like about 72 fahrenheit. So the weather wasn't the problem. I think the most important that at the very beginning, this is a while back, right. I'm m not like Rachel said, not like young chicken anymore. But back then, although there were, a lot of, you know, mexican American and latino population in the United States, in the northeast, there was not a lot of Mexican.

>> Victoria: There was not. I bet. Yes.

>> Alex: And so funny enough, food was the problem because. Oh, Mexican, food was basically Taco Bell and old El Paso. And that was it.

>> Victoria: That was it.

>> Alex: That was it. It was like old El Paso taco night was basically the best thing I could hope for.

>> Victoria: Sounds like a disappointment.

>> Alex: It was not very good. and in Taco Bell was a different thing than today, because back then, you could basically buy a dozen tacos in Taco Bell for about $2.50. And trust me, it was mystery meat.

>> Victoria: Yeah, I mean, I have not really tried taco bell ever.

>> Alex: I went, now, it's actually pretty good.

>> Victoria: Oh, is it? I have no idea. I only had, like, the cinnamon buns for breakfast or something. Because I don't know, I sometimes, I mean, I don't know, I try not to eat all this, like, junk food all the time.

>> Alex: Oh, trust me, it's. You're doing well.

You studied engineering at Maryland but eventually moved to Delaware for a master's

>> Victoria: Okay, maybe I give it a go. okay, and so the food. But, Did you not like the cuisine over there?

>> Alex: Yes, but, so I was a college student. I was 19, and I was as stupid as any 19 year old college student is. So basically I was surviving on oodles of noodles and taco, bell run nights and maybe hot pockets, and I discovered an entire wide range of american teenage, food. And, you know, the bags of Doritos with the beer that you couldn't buy, but somehow you ended up, acquiring anyway.

>> Victoria: Yeah, yeah.

>> Alex: And on top of it, that was, I was an engineering student. So you can imagine that engineers get a little bit more weird, when they get a little bit overexcited. So junk food definitely was the fuel.

>> Victoria: Okay, got it. And. But, okay, so. But you eventually moved abroad?

>> Alex: Yes, I stayed, in the United States. I graduated from Maryland. Then I went and lived in, Delaware at the University of Delaware. I went and did a master's there. First, I worked in the bank. I went and worked a couple of years for the, Wilmington Trust bank outside of, Wilmington, Delaware.

>> Victoria: That sounds a little bit different than what you studied.

>> Alex: Well, I started, I started studying engineering. And by my third year, the economy was gotten really, really bad. I m mean, this is the time in which we went through, like, the massive recession. Nobody could get a job. So, yeah, I went to my, to my, with my counselor and my school counselor and told them, what can I do with what I have studied? Which is something that we can do in american universities that you cannot do in Europe.

>> Alex: these are the credits I have. How can I get out of here as soon as possible so I can get a job? Because I'm broke and, I have taken a lot of, economic classes and a lot of mathematics. I started as, electrical, engineer and mathematics major. and he told me, well, as a minor you took economics and you have a ton of math. Why don't you try to get a degree in economics? I was like, okay, well, that get me a degree that can get a job. And he's like, sure. So that's what I did my third year. I switched to economics. I took a couple of extra summer sessions, and, I was able to get my credits to get my economics degree.

>> Alex: And I got a job at the bank at, Delaware, which is place to get a job in a bank because, okay, the entire state is banks.

>> Victoria: Oh, I did not know that.

>> Alex: Probably you, every single credit card you had comes from there because they, they have the most corporations in America than any other state combined.

>> Victoria: And it's so tiny.

>> Alex: that's why, because, they have a lot of tax breaks and tax, there's no income tax.

>> Alex: So, yeah, so, no, it was great. I mean, it was, it was a very good experience. So. And from there, while I was at the bank, I figured I couldn't really do much just with my degree and enrolled in, a master's program there, Delaware. And, yeah, and while I was at Delaware, and, that's what I was. Interesting. I had talked actually to a belgian person when I was, at Maryland. They were trying to get some, people to come and spend a year abroad in Belgium. And when I was in Delaware, I met, a lot of french and foreign students because they had a very healthy foreign student community. And so, I had been in France, when I was, when I was younger, my first year of college, actually, before I moved to the United States, I spent it in France. I was at University of angers. University of angers. I was a math, student.

>> Victoria: Okay.

>> Alex: So I somewhat spoke the language. I didn't really speak a lot. I mean, I didn't do very well in France because it was my first time that I was abroad by myself. And I think I had a little bit too much of party time, if you know what I mean.

>> Victoria: Oh, yeah, yeah, of course.

>> Alex: Well, I always had this idea that I wanted to return to Europe. And, the opportunity to present itself for me to not necessarily continue because I was actually finished my masters in Delaware, but to enroll into a, master's doctoral program in Belgium.

>> Victoria: Okay.

>> Alex: And so I went, I applied and they took me in. Basically one day I was just like, I'm tired of this. It'll be fun. And pick, up my thanks and live for Belgium.

>> Victoria: Okay. So. And where, where in Belgium was it?

>> Alex: It's in levin la neuf, which is outside of, Brussels, is in the french part.

>> Victoria: Okay. I was, like, expecting a city that I've heard of, but not that one.

>> Alex: Well, it's a built city that was built from nothing. When, Do you know Leuven?

>> Victoria: no.

>> Alex: They have really nice, it's one of the big, flemish cities that it's outside of, Brussels. They have a very big university called the Catholic University of luva. And, when they had the language troubles, the school divided into a french version and a flemish version. And so they had to build in the middle of the night. Well, not really, but it felt like that way. It seems a brand new town for the french students. And that's where I ended up.

Your first language was English and your second language was French

>> Victoria: Okay, so your program, was it then, in French?

>> Alex: That is correct. Well, it was English and French.

>> Victoria: How did you manage the language? Hardly okay.

>> Alex: It was, it was very tough at first. English was no problem because I've been, speaking. Yeah, fairly. I was speaking English since I was a kid. I. Funny enough, my first language that I learned as a second language was French because my parents had this idea that they wanted me to learn French. And they put me in the french.

>> Victoria: School when I was in Mexico. Uh-huh.

>> Alex: But I was never very confident on it because I never really spoke with a lot of people. I was very book smart, I suppose, in French I could read it.

>> Victoria: Okay. Could read it, but no conversation.

>> Alex: I understand it, but, yeah. So when I got there, the classes that I had to take in French actually was quite, quite a challenge because I discovered two things. I don't know if it's the same in Germany, but first thing I discover is that doesn't matter. Whatever you do the entire year, your entire class, depends on one exam you take.

>> Victoria: Yeah. Yeah, it does. Yes.

>> Alex: And the second thing is that sometimes that darn exam is an, as an oral exam.

>> Victoria: Oh. yeah, that sucks.

>> Alex: And so I had, I remember one particular class. Oh, my God. It was the first one I had to take it. The first oral that I had to take in my entire life, and I had to take it in French.

>> Victoria: Ah.

>> Alex: that.

>> Victoria: Scared of being nervous, everything.

>> Alex: I still have nightmares about it. I have PTSD. I'm still, I'm still wake up in the middle of the night sweating, cold and going like, yes, yes, 34, 34.

>> Victoria: Was it, was it in math? So at least you could only use.

>> Alex: It was, economic history.

>> Victoria: Oh, yeah. No, it's a hard one then.

>> Alex: Yes, because I had to tell and describe theories. I took, I took an econometrics test oral in French, and that was actually not as bad because I could actually write things on paper.

>> Alex: But I still had to explain them. Right. But if my equations were right, it was okay.

>> Victoria: Yeah, but do you remember, did you take like, any french classes?

>> Alex: I did, I did, I did. the school was very good in that respect. They were, they were very, very good with the foreign students. I mean, I really had a very good experience and they really made you fit in. Like, one of the things that was very strange is that I arrived from the United States and when they, at the time, I had become a citizen already in the United States. And, I came in with my, with an american passport. And when I went and I went to register the secretary, which I discovered that secretaries in universities have amazing amount of power. Not so much on the power itself, but because they know how things are done.

>> Victoria: Okay.

>> Alex: And so she asked me, it's like, okay, so, you come from the United States? Yes, this is when I needed to pay my fees. Right?

>> Alex: And I was like, okay, yes. And so, okay, so, but you have a, you have a spanish name. It's like, yeah, I'm from Mexico. Just, So do you have a way to claim that you're from Mexico? It's like, yeah, I have a mexican passport. Okay, so with the police, you're going to go and register with your american passport because that's the visa they gave you. And with university, you're going to register with the mexican passport. And I'm like, why is that? But because Belgium has, an educational treaty with Mexico or with Latin American general.

>> Alex: And so I basically was, registered, like if I was a belgian student. So I got the national security, I got, subventions for my living, I got a stipend. It's not that I had a scholarship is that they were just treating me like if I was a belgian student.

>> Victoria: Right, right, right. So it was like way cheaper, like.

>> Alex: Well, I paid 600. at the time it was for the entire year.

>> Victoria: For the entire year. Wow.

>> Alex: It was 600. Wait, wait, no, that was. It was 6000 francs. So that was about five. $250.

>> Victoria: That's crazy. And do you remember what the fees would have been when you would, $10,000. How much?

>> Alex: $10,000.

>> Victoria: But isn't that crazy? Yeah. I mean, like, I mean, like, good for you, but I mean, as an american, that sucks.

All my papers went through Ireland as if I was an European Union resident

>> Alex: Well, well, worse. Worse yet, because I did have american classmates and they ended up paying that. Yeah, worse yet, eventually we'll get to this. But I moved to Ireland after this, and the exact same thing happened to me in Ireland. Not because of the mexican thing, but because when I applied to Ireland, to the university, because I was considered a, belgian student, all my papers went through Ireland as if I was an European Union resident.

>> Victoria: Right.

>> Alex: And so I paid european union fees, which again, it was Trinity College. So for European Union it was something like €2000.

>> Victoria: Yeah, yeah.

>> Alex: And outside of the European Union, it was something like 30. $30,000.

>> Victoria: Oh, my God. I mean. And, Did you ever tell that to the other american students?

>> Alex: Yeah, yeah. We had a friend that, unfortunately he had done the same thing. He had been living in Finland and he applied from Finland.

>> Victoria: Uh-huh.

>> Alex: No, but no, sorry. The mistake he did is instead applying from Finland, from his home university, he sent all his papers from his parents house in Boston.

>> Victoria: Ah. okay.

>> Alex: He got, and he got tagged as an American. And so he wants that they tag you. You cannot change your classification. And that was terrible because it's a lot of money.

>> Victoria: It is a lot of money. Oh, my God. The difference. Yes, it's, But where they ever got, like, did they, were they mad at you too? I mean.

>> Alex: No, no, no.

>> Victoria: Okay.

>> Alex: That's the. I mean, I would have been mad, but they were not mad at me because I didn't do anything wrong. That's just the way that they were doing it. But they were just like, oh, I wish I could have known. I was like, well, I didn't know it myself.

>> Victoria: Right. So you're expecting to pay all that money? I was expecting to pay a lot of money, yes. And then you were like, woohoo, I have $10,000 extra.

>> Alex: Pretty much. I mean, that was actually good. And then I went and it's not that I hid it from anybody. when I went to the police to get my, resident card, they were just like, oh, okay. And I told them. It's like, well, I also have all the passports. Like, well, yeah, well, okay, well, that's fine. Where's your visa on the american one? Well, that's all we need. It's like, okay, the end of the story.

>> Victoria: Oh, wow. And do you know if that still is?

>> Alex: That's a long time ago, so probably they changed it. I don't know. Well, it's Belgium, so. Politics in Belgium have changed so much in the past 1015 years.

>> Victoria: Okay, so maybe it hasn't changed.

>> Alex: I mean, I'm surprised there's still a country that we're breaking apart. When I was there, and it's so sad. It's such a great country, and it's just so silly.

>> Victoria: I mean, never mind. Yeah, I mean, you're the politics pro. I have no idea what's going on there. Really?

>> Alex: Yeah, that was. That was something.

So how long were you then in Belgium? About four years

>> Victoria: So how long were you then in Belgium?

>> Alex: It's about over. About four years.

>> Victoria: Okay. A while. And, did you like it so at first?

>> Alex: Well, people were very nice. People were really, really nice. I have. It took me a minute to get used to how they are, because I think Belgians and Dutch and many of my german friends have the same one to do. They're very blunt. They're very direct.

>> Victoria: Okay. Yeah.

>> Alex: And if there is something in Latin America or even in the United States that we're not as direct.

>> Victoria: Exactly. Uh-huh.

>> Alex: It's. You try to basically beat around the bush as much as you can until you figure out things. And so the first thing that it was difficult was, that, to get used to how direct people were. Once you get used to it and you understand that it's nothing personal, it's just how people communicate. It was fine. The weather was what really drove me nuts, because even where I was living in the United States and from Mexico, you know, you see the sun somewhere.

>> Victoria: Yeah.

>> Alex: And I arrived in Belgium in September. From September through April, it rained every single day. I'm not talking about raining. Pouring all the time, but drizzling sometimes. Sometimes drizzling sometimes not so much, but then sometimes, then raining horizontally, with, like, wind. And. And I discovered that it was impossible to have an umbrella. It makes no sense to have an umbrella. You put yourself a hat on, you get yourself your hat on, you get something that is going to keep you warm, and you go out and you get soaked, and then you get dry. And that's the way it is.

>> Victoria: Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So the weather. The weather sucks. I did not know it's so bad in Belgium, too.

>> Alex: It is. and it's great. It's.

>> Victoria: It's always great. Yeah.

>> Alex: That really did a number on me, because from September, October, November, well, I was getting used to be, you know, I was homesick, and I had friends and I have family, and when I was in Belgium, it was more expensive, so I could not just go and visit my family in Mexico or my friends in the United States. So I didn't return right away. It took me a while to go back, and so just the grayness of it, I don't think I got a depression, but it was, it was, it really got me down. It was tough.

>> Victoria: Okay. So it just, like, totally messed up your mood?

>> Alex: yeah. It was just gray and rainy and just plain miserable. But the great thing about it is that I was very, very, very lucky. And I found a group of, local students. Some of them were, were studying with me, some other. No, internationals, actually, which is very unusual locals. And they kind of, like, took me in, and basically they showed me around and they showed me how Belgians survived, which is basically living on beer, chocolate, and a lot of sausage.

>> Victoria: Yeah. I was like, maybe that's why they have beer. and all kinds of. Yes, okay.

>> Alex: No, no, it was, it was, it was very nice. I think that without that, that was a great support that I had and helped me to, go through it. And honestly, it was fine. I mean, school also was really hard. The system. The educational system in Europe is, it's, it's much harder than here. Not from the point of view that things that are studied are better or harder. It's just the way of how things are taught. okay. Here when you go to university, you have a lot of interaction with the teachers, and you have Ras or tas or somebody. There's always somebody that you can ask, and if you're lost, somebody's going to try to help you, if not right away, after you really complain and do something.

>> Victoria: Okay.

>> Alex: In Belgium, it was basically, you went in, you took the class, you understood. Good. You don't understood. That's great. To take the exam and get off.

>> Victoria: Okay. So there was no interaction with the.

>> Alex: teachers or you could, but which I did. And you went and stood up in front of the person if he gave you 20 minutes of his time, and basically you felt like an idiot because m, you're asking him a question and he's looking like, were you a moron? What don't you understand about this?

>> Victoria: Yeah.

>> Alex: And it was, it was hard. I mean, it's basically a sink or swim. And one thing that I understood very quickly is that that's one of the ways that they do to try to get rid of some people from programs when there's a lot of people.

>> Victoria: okay. Do you think. Okay.

>> Alex: In general, it was. It was fine. I mean, it was.

Flanders and Wallonia are very different. How are they different

It was just a lot of work. And.

>> Victoria: And when was this?

>> Alex: this was in 1999 to about 2002.

>> Victoria: Oh, wow. That is a long time ago.

>> Alex: Yeah.

>> Victoria: Yeah.

>> Alex: Thank you.

>> Victoria: Yeah, I mean, I was just thinking, like. I mean, I was like, wow, 1999. I was in school. Yeah.

>> Alex: Yeah. So I got there a little bit before that, but,

>> Alex: Yeah, no, that was fun. And I stayed. I stayed in, I first was in the french part, and then I was able to save some money. I got a little side job, and I moved to the flemish area. I moved to Leuven. Then I discovered that it was a completely different country.

>> Victoria: Oh, really? Is that.

>> Alex: Oh, my God, yes. Now, Flanders and Wallonia are very different.

>> Victoria: And why is that? I mean, or how. How are they different?

>> Alex: language. yeah, the way. Just the way things work. I mean, it really is, like, it really works. Kind of like two different countries.

>> Victoria: But is it also, like, very obvious, like, for example, like architecture or something?

>> Alex: Yes.

>> Victoria: Yeah.

>> Alex: Well, m the. What you have in your mind about belgian cities in terms of, you know, being very beautiful or kind of like Netherlands, like, or,

>> Victoria: Like. I mean, I'm very old, you know, and then very cobblestone.

>> Alex: Yeah, that's very much. That's very much the north of Belgium.

>> Victoria: Yeah. I mean, I've been only to, to Brussels and to, I don't even know how to say it in English. Antwerp.

>> Alex: Antwerp, yeah.

>> Victoria: Yeah.

>> Alex: So that's the two big cities. Yeah. So you have Antwerp, you have bruges, of course, which is the famous city, and then you, Bruje. Brugesbridge. Sorry. Yeah, Ghent. leuven, all these areas, and then in the south, you have, the french speaking cities, which. Well, the biggest french speaking city is Brussels. I mean, Brussels, 90%, french speakers. But in the actual bologna, you have Charleroi, which is an industrial city. It's not particularly pretty, but, it's a big town. If I remember correctly, they used to tell me it's the youngest city in Europe.

>> Victoria: Oh, okay.

>> Alex: it was basically industrial city built in the sixties, so that's how pretty it is.

Belgium is a very densely packed country with lots of cities

>> Victoria: Well, the way you describe Belgium right now, it sounds like such a big country, you know, like all the cities. Oh, it's not so tiny. Exactly.

>> Alex: I think somebody told me that there is not a single point in Belgium where you are that in 3 hours, you cannot get out of it.

>> Victoria: Yeah. and there's probably not one spot in Belgium where you're not already in, like, a big city, because it's like.

>> Alex: Yeah, that's true.

>> Victoria: That's true.

>> Alex: Yeah, it's true. It's very heavily, packed. Yeah, you're right. You're right. but that's also the difference in the south. That's in the south, you have a lot of really nice forests and mountains. That's where the nice, pretty countryside area of Belgium is. The, Sardin, the mountains. It's close to Germany, actually. they have liege, which is not far from Aachen. And so, there is a german part of Belgium. There is actually a certain. It's right next to St. Vickt. I actually went camping there once, and they do speak German. It's not a myth. It is actually the local language for, such a small country, really is like three little countries together. It's fascinating. The country is fascinating. I love Belgium.

>> Victoria: Yeah. I also always think, it's very fascinating if one country has more than just one language. I get very confused when I think about Switzerland.

>> Alex: Right, right.

>> Victoria: It's like, what language are you guys communicating with in the same country, you know? Yeah.

>> Alex: In Belgium, it's the same, because every sign that you have, in, like, train stations and everything, sometimes the town. The town's, names change completely. So if you're taking a train, you should know where you're going, because in. In both languages, because the train might be shown with the destination either in French or in Flemish.

>> Victoria: Ah, yeah.

>> Alex: So, for example, the first that comes to my head, there's a town called, courtrai. In English, that in, Flemish is called Cotrecht. It sounds familiar, but when you see it written, it's written completely different.

>> Victoria: Okay. So you get super confused, right?

>> Alex: Yes. and a lot of people get confused about this, and so you. It's not unusual to find foreigners being completely lost, taking the wrong train on the stations.

>> Victoria: Yeah, I get it.

>> Alex: I would be, too, but, yeah, that was my belgian experience. That was something nice.

When you move to Ireland, it's difficult to make friends

>> Victoria: And then right after you move further to Ireland.

>> Alex: So, when I was, trying to get my PhD, m. I was trying to get a scholarship or some way to actually stop paying money for this. And, during a conference, a professor from Trinity, offered me to become, offered me a job. To do, to be her research assistant. So I got my, instead of continuing trying to do a PhD at, in Belgium, I just finished and got my master's there and applied, and got accepted in Trinity, basically because, I mean, I wanted to see what it was like. I mean, it's a good school and. But because they were offering me a job.

>> Victoria: Yeah.

>> Alex: And so I went, I packed my things and, I ended up in Dublin. And that was another experience.

>> Victoria: That was another experience. I mean, a big party city, I.

>> Alex: Guess, in the weekends.

>> Victoria: Yes.

>> Alex: The Irish are great people. I love being in Ireland. They're very friendly, but at the same time, they're very clannish. They like to hang out with the people they know.

>> Victoria: That's what you mean. Okay.

>> Alex: and so it's very difficult to make irish friends. We were lucky because two of my roommates were irish, so we had contact with them and with their friends, and so it was fun. But when you're a foreigner, even if you're an english speaker, in Ireland tends to be a little bit hard to make, you always can make lots of irish acquaintances, but to actually make friendship with, with people locally, it's a little bit more difficult. So you end up hanging out. Most foreigners end up hanging out with foreigners.

>> Victoria: Yeah. But I mean, also, as a student, it's like super easy to make friends anyway.

>> Alex: Right, that's true. And, yeah, that was a little bit different, Ireland also, the weather was a little bit, harsh, but at that time, Belgium had trained me well.

>> Victoria: Okay, so you already used to. It's like the weather.

>> Alex: Yeah.

>> Victoria: Not making any point anymore.

>> Alex: When I went to an interview for that job, I think what the dean of the department was telling me, it's like, well, I hope you like, the weather in Ireland. They say that Ireland, has four seasons. And I was like, is that so? I was like, yeah, four seasons in a day. In the morning, it's nice, then it starts raining, does get sunny, and then you start freezing in the afternoon.

>> Victoria: Yeah. Right.

>> Alex: So, but, but no, it was, it was, it was nice. I. That was a little bit more difficult to get used to. Funny enough for me, Ireland was more difficult to get used to that.

>> Victoria: Belgium, well, the, the weather.

>> Alex: No, just, just things in general.

>> Victoria: okay, but, yeah, why was that? I mean, because language was not a problem anymore.

>> Alex: No, no, no, it's not, it was not language. It's just a way of living. I mean, Ireland was a country that for a long time was not doing so well financially.

>> Victoria: Right.

>> Alex: And then when we got there, it was the boom. That's where, actually, Ireland was doing super, super well financially.

>> Victoria: Mm.

>> Alex: But still was very rural and very. This very wartime, economy mentality. So you would go to the supermarkets, for example. From the time that I got there to the time that I left, I really saw massive changes on just the quality of life of people.

>> Victoria: Yeah.

>> Alex: Like, for example, when we first got there, you could get maybe one kind of potato chips, which is the local ones called tatoes. By the time I left, there was like every single thing that you can imagine on the shelves.

>> Victoria: I mean, it was just crazy.

The Troubles ended in 2002, but the Good Friday agreement wasn't signed

Okay. But so how. How far or, Like, how long ago when you got there was, that conflict over.

>> Alex: Oh, you mean the, Troubles.

>> Victoria: Yeah, yeah.

>> Alex: So the troubles, I got there way after that.

>> Victoria: Yeah, it was already like.

>> Alex: It was in the trouble, but I. Yeah, the, The Good Friday agreement, I think, was signed over in 98. The IRA still hadn't laid down their weapons. I was there when the IRA made the official announcement that they had decommissioned. So I was. I was actually watching tv when they played the tape in which the official person or somebody that was giving the announcement that the IRA was decommissioning. That was in 2004, I think. And, I arrived in Ireland in 2002.

>> Victoria: Yeah. So that was not really a long time.

>> Alex: Yeah, no, I mean, I went to Belfast in 2000, and you could still see that it was. It was a little bit worse. Weird. you really didn't walk in certain areas, but now. Now they actually have tourist, I know tourist groups that go to the areas where they have all the murals and stuff. It's just insane for me to think about it because the British Paris had only left Ireland a couple of years before I left, and now all the checkpoints and everything are kind of like selling you souvenirs.

>> Victoria: It's the most bizarre thing. My brother was just telling me that, they went to Ireland a few years ago, and they also went to, like, one zone that was. It was like. Right, the border.

>> Alex: Yes.

>> Victoria: And it was like, kind of like a long hallway with huge walls.

>> Alex: Yes.

>> Victoria: And then all the houses. All the houses, like, on the other sides, they had like some protection over their roofs just in case, like other people, like from the other side, like throwing a, Molotov cocktail or something.

>> Alex: Oh, yeah.

>> Victoria: That's crazy, right?

>> Alex: Yes, no, it was. It was. It was. It was some time. No, I. I didn't get to see any of that. At all. But I, I did get to, you know, talk to people or there were people that had stories. And there is a, there is a bar in, Dublin called the celt, and he's very famous to be a very, very republican bar. And it was not unusual to, to meet people there that had a story or two about the troubles. And it's, it's a touchy subject because, it is, still means something for people there. I mean, it's not that long ago that it's ancient history. I mean, there are still people that went through it and there's a lot of things that were not so nice that happened. So it's, it's a delicate matter to talk to.

>> Victoria: Some people I think still is.

>> Alex: Well, but in general, I mean, most people, especially the young generation, they just don't care. I mean, there's a lot of, there's a lot of people that come from the, from Ulster, from, from the five, counties down to Dublin to hang out, and you run into them in the bar. So it's never a problem. I mean, it's not an issue. And there is really not a protestant catholic divide. I mean, it's more of, again, more political rather than religious, because most people in Ireland, they're not really religious. I mean, the church still, plays a big role, but most young people, I mean, they don't go to church. It's more like an institutional thing. Kind of like in Italy, I think.

>> Alex: It's like people are Catholic, are institutionally catholic, but in their everyday life just, you know, they just go on about with their business.

>> Victoria: Right, right, yeah.

You worked in Ireland for about six years as an economist

And so how long, how long were you there?

>> Alex: I was in Ireland for about six years.

>> Victoria: Oh, that's quite a long time.

>> Alex: yeah, I, was able to do my degree and then I was, I got a job. I started working for, first it was a smaller company that hired me and then as a contractor, and then I got hired into working for Hewlett, Packard. Okay, well, Hewlett Packard was the. So this is how work things work in Ireland. I was a contractor for Hewlett Packer, who then hired me to be a contractor for the bank of Ireland.

>> Victoria: okay.

>> Alex: Then in turn, the bank of Ireland hired me. So I don't know exactly how it works, but that's how it ended up. So I was, I was working, actually, my paychecks were signed by, by, Hewlett Packard. So it was. Although I was working for the bank of Ireland.

>> Victoria: Okay.

>> Alex: And, yeah. Ah. As an economist.

>> Victoria: So, okay.

The first time that I visited my parents in Ireland was super expensive

Did you go back home to Mexico?

>> Alex: Yeah, yeah, I did. I did, from Ireland. It was super expensive, I think, the first time that I visited my parents, when I was in Ireland, it cost me something like $2,500 round trip. yeah, that's something. And this is like, in 2004, so that it was very expensive.

>> Victoria: Yeah, that is expensive.

>> Alex: So that is less expensive. Yeah. I mean, I would come and see my family, but not as often.

>> Victoria: And.

>> Alex: I would have a chance to go to United States and visit my friends. And then I met Rachel, which you have talked to.

>> Victoria: Yeah.

>> Alex: And, I took her once or twice to Mexico, where we were in Ireland. and it was just. My life just become much easier when I met her because it's easier, I believe that it's easier to be in a foreign country if you are in a couple, that if you're by yourself.

>> Victoria: Yeah, yeah, I chose it.

>> Alex: It just works a little bit easier and better. And, she, being a foreigner as well, she understood where I was coming from, so I didn't have to explain myself. So it was, it was kind of odd. Although she was french and I was mexican and we were in Ireland, we had more things in common, together in a third country and made, I think, things easier for us to communicate and deal with.

>> Victoria: Yeah. And you could always, like, talk shit about the Irish.

>> Alex: Yeah, that's true. Oh, that's true. That's so much true. I have a funny story. We used to have a used, to have an apartment that, was right in the center of downtown. We were super lucky. I don't think that that place was, up to code or everything, because our, you know, floor was kind of, like, sinking and we had, like, a hole in the wall. Never mind.

>> Victoria: But.

>> Alex: But we could afford it. And it was right downtown, and in front of us there was a whole array of, bars. If you ever go down to Dublin, and there are some streets that is just full of bars. And I remember that, on Saturday nights when we had nothing to do and we really didn't want to go out, we just pull chairs, we'll make popcorn and just look at the fights outside of bars.

>> Victoria: Oh, yeah. Okay.

>> Alex: And seriously, I'm not. I'm not joking. It was hilarious. I mean, it's not hilarious because we get involved and stuff like that.

>> Victoria: Yeah.

>> Alex: But it was, it was, it was quite something.

>> Victoria: it was like, even in the movies, because they're always fighting.

>> Alex: Well, it's. It's always when they let people out. It's a lot of drunk kids, doing, stupid things, talking loud, being obnoxious.

>> Victoria: Uh-huh.

>> Alex: And eventually one gets into somebody else's skin and a break, a fight breaks out. And it's not a stereotype. I mean, it happens in England as well.

>> Victoria: I guess it's just general. Right?

>> Alex: But I do remember that when we used to go out, we specifically tried to leave the place before it was last, call because we knew that it was just gonna turn funny. And it's like, and then you can never catch a cab. And then it's hell to try to get home. And everybody tries to go and get, this obnoxious kebabs in a place very famous in Ireland called Abra Kebabra.

>> Victoria: Okay.

>> Alex: And, yeah, it's the whole experience. But we had a good time there. It was just very expensive.

>> Victoria: Okay.

And so what happened then after Ireland? Well, to be quite honest, we were thinking of staying

And so what happened then after Ireland?

>> Alex: Well, to be quite honest, we were thinking of staying in Ireland. we almost decided to live there. I mean, it was an option. I had a job and things were going well. We had friends. we were kind of settled. but the problem was that we sat down and we actually took a hard look, ah, at how things were going. If we ever wanted to buy a house or something, it was very, very expensive, the kind of jobs that we had, we would have to basically just slave it over or just really move out of the city or go into the countryside, which is fine. I mean, Ireland is beautiful. Outside of Dublin. It's gorgeous.

>> Alex: but, then I just got an opportunity to, work for the, Department of Interior for the government in the United States.

>> Victoria: Okay. Did you apply for this or.

>> Alex: Yeah.

>> Victoria: Okay, so you were looking, I.

>> Alex: Was just looking to look, ah, just kind of like having a plan b type of thing.

>> Victoria: Yeah.

>> Alex: And, I had a friend from, from the embassy that chatted me into. He's like, well, you know, I'm sure that with your background and stuff, you probably could work for the government and this and that. And I was like, yeah, yeah. you know, people, people talk. Sweet career m. And, I did. And, then I got it.

You were in turkey for a while, right? Yes, yes

>> Victoria: Was that an issue, though, for you guys, that you got a job opportunity in the United States?

>> Alex: well, we're kind of odd.

>> Victoria: Yeah. I mean, already I talked to her. I talked to Rachel. So I already was like, oh, yeah, you had like a super easy going relationship with. You were everywhere and you flew everywhere and it was not a problem.

>> Alex: So at the time, yeah, no, I mean, it was hard, of course. I mean, it's true, it's not a joke when you move out and you kind of like are half settled, but it was just, too much of a good opportunity to let go. I mean, that's my job still. I've been there for,

>> Victoria: Ah, okay. You still.

>> Alex: I'm still at that job. Yeah, that's where we are in Washington.

>> Victoria: Yeah. I figured there must be something with the government.

>> Alex: Yeah. I came over and basically was like, okay, I'm gonna try it out and see how it works out.

>> Alex: And then when, when things are settled, I mean, you come over, it's like, all right, not a problem.

>> Victoria: Uh-huh.

>> Alex: And as it turns out, one part of my job involved a lot of, traveling specifically to european, uh-huh So it was very easy for me to go for work and I will be, for example, doing, ah, something for my job for like two or three weeks, let's say in Belgium or in Vienna or in Rome or something. And then I will be able to take as much time as I was there for my work as vacation.

>> Victoria: Mm Yeah.

>> Alex: So what I will do is I would just basically go and stay with her.

>> Victoria: Sure. Yeah.

>> Alex: And then, so in that, in that way, we actually saw each other quite, quite, quite a lot for a long time. I mean, she would come here in, the summers and in Easter or in Christmas.

>> Victoria: Yeah.

>> Alex: And then in between, I would be there probably two or three times.

>> Victoria: Okay. Because she was a teacher.

>> Alex: Yes, that is correct. And so I guess, I guess that's why it worked out, because there was never a period that we didn't see that we were not together for more than maybe four or five weeks.

>> Victoria: Oh, wow. Okay. So that is, I, mean, yeah, I mean, this is not even like you were working overseas on the other side of Atlantic. Yeah.

>> Alex: So that worked out. And, and it worked out for a very long time.

>> Victoria: I mean, did you know this, when you took the job that you would travel abroad?

>> Alex: I knew that I was gonna travel abroad and at first I was going to go into the Africa unit, which it would have sent me to, you know, very different places.

>> Victoria: Yeah.

>> Alex: In fact, I think the first travel that they wanted me to do was going to go to have a nice day at the Central African Republic, probably hanging out with a lot of, french legionnaires, doing a survey of XYZ. And I was not able to take that travel for all the reasons. So I didn't end up getting it, but, then I ended. They ended up putting me on the european section, and, that worked out really well.

>> Victoria: Nice. That was a nice surprise, then.

>> Alex: Yeah, no, it was good. I actually got to Germany quite a few times. I really, really enjoyed going there. I was able to go to Berlin. I was in Hamburg. I was in sturga a couple of times.

>> Victoria: And you were also in turkey for a while, right?

>> Alex: Yes, yes, I was in turkey. I spent, ah, quite a long time in turkey, actually. well, not long, but periods of, like, three, four months at a time.

>> Victoria: Oh, okay.

>> Alex: So it was. I really liked turkey. Turkey is a nice place.

Everything changed after COVID, right? Travel stopped completely

>> Victoria: The longest you were overseas was, Dublin then. And then, like.

>> Alex: in Ireland, that was six years. So that was the longest stretch. Yes.

>> Victoria: And then, you went back to the US full time, but more like traveling.

>> Alex: Right.

>> Victoria: And are you still traveling or.

>> Alex: No, everything changed after COVID. Right. Now, travel. So travel stopped completely.

>> Victoria: Okay.

>> Alex: Completely stopped. And that's one of the reasons why also, we. We couldn't see each other m with Rachel. And that's why we, the middle of watching a really funny show. I think it was the good witch or something really cheesy on tv. It was like, you know what? Let's get married.

>> Victoria: Yeah.

>> Alex: You know, you know the rest of the story.

>> Victoria: Yeah. I mean, okay. It makes sense, right? Because then you don't have to deal with, especially after COVID, you know, because it's like, oh, my God, like, can I go anywhere?

>> Alex: Yeah. No, it was.

>> Victoria: Yeah, yeah.

>> Alex: For us, it was. It was. It was devastating, really, because it was, We were. Again, we were used to. It's not that. Yes, we were apart, but we were not used to be apart.

>> Victoria: Apart for so long.

>> Alex: Right. If you know what I mean.

>> Victoria: Yeah. At least you knew. At least you knew when it was coming. But with COVID it was like, when will this end?

>> Alex: Yes. Yes. And then when, traveler work actually changed, that was. That was. That was terrible, because I couldn't do the last trip that I was able to do that I was able to see her. I think, it was a trip that I did to Switzerland, and she was able to come and see me, and we spent time in Geneva, but that was. That was it. And, after that, it just. Everything. Everything stopped, and it's just starting to pick up again.

>> Alex: okay, I'm going to have to start traveling again. But it's been four years. I mean.

>> Victoria: Okay, that's been a while, so.

Washington DC itself is very small, only about maybe 10 square miles

Okay, so. And how long is it now since you were back in the US?

>> Alex: Oof. got back here in 2008.

>> Victoria: Okay. Oh, wow. Okay. It is a while. So is this, do you say this is now your home?

>> Alex: Well, they say home is where the heart is, right? So, Yeah, yeah, it feels like home. I mean specifically, specifically being here in, in Washington, in the we live in the northern Virginia side, which is odd because I, all the parts that, all the area that I knew from Washington when I was living here in college was on the Maryland side. So I didn't know anything about the Virginia area. And you know, for people or for you, if you don't know, Washington DC itself is very small. M, it's only about maybe 10, but Washington DC itself is huge. But it's the metropolitan area and half of it is on the Virginia side and the other half of the metropolitan area is on the Maryland side.

>> Alex: So, the joke here is when people say I'm from DC and they're like, oh, so you're from Virginia, Maryland, because there's nobody really from DC unless, uh-huh. I mean there is, there is people that are from DC, but it's very small amount of people. Yeah. No, I think by now we're kind of settled here. I mean, it's pretty nice, where we are. The only thing that we cannot get used to is just super expensive. yeah, it's like New York expensive. And m, you know, quality of life is very good, I will tell you. I will tell you that. But the amount of, you know, I don't know if you're familiar with the what they call the Big Mac price, index.

>> Victoria: No.

>> Alex: There is this, economic, theory. Not theory. Somebody proposed this as a way to figure out how expensive, a part of the country is. if you compare the prices of.

>> Victoria: Big Macs, yeah.

>> Alex: Uh-huh on each part of the country. And so when you go to places where it's very cheap, well, you find out how much it is and then you compare it to the national standard. And I think the national standard right now is about like $354 and the Big Mac over here is almost $6.

>> Victoria: Okay. Wow. Yeah. I have to check how much it is here.

>> Alex: No, but really, there's even a website. There's some, there's some economics geek guy that probably, I'm sure, put it online. But it's a way just to figure out your average price level of consumables and how expensive things are.

>> Victoria: Yeah, I wonder, I mean, here everybody is complaining as well that everything got so expensive. So, we lived before in San Francisco and the San Francisco area, very expensive. So when we moved to Austin, it was like, oh, everything is so cheap. Right? And then everybody else around us was like, this is so expensive. And we're like, oh, what are you talking about? You know, but now we're also, now we're also like, wow, it's really expensive.

>> Alex: You know, it's just crazy because, I mean, I was just talking to my boss the other day because, you know, they were complaining about the prices and having a family around here and all. and we were just amazed because the average income, for example, on the two or three counties around DC, oh.

>> Victoria: God, it's really high.

>> Alex: The average income per family is like $220,000.

>> Victoria: That is crazy. So.

>> Alex: But still, people can't afford to buy a house because the starter, the starter price of most, townhomes, it's about $750,000. Yeah, here's. We have a lot of companies that are making this, and they're making a lot of money, money out of it, but it's, I think it's a bubble. I think eventually this is going to go this way, the south way, and I don't think it's going to be a good thing. But anyway, that's one of the reasons why we started thinking about moving somewhere else. But at the moment, unfortunately, I think, if you don't have momentum, to move somewhere is difficult. It just wants to stay where you're comfortable.

>> Victoria: Yeah, exactly. I know it. Yeah.

Were you ever thinking of moving to France, for instance where Rachel is from

And so I have, written one question here that was before this conversation. I had, like, wondered, did you move around a lot because you didn't have, like, a lot of roots? Because, I mean, with that, that you moved around a lot as a kid?

>> Alex: No, not necessarily. I mean, the family of my dad had a bus. I mean, was not my, not my dad personally, but his extended family and all the people, they had a bus company, like, you know, like, like a greyhound type of thing.

>> Victoria: Yeah.

>> Alex: And that transportation and, and, we, we did travel a lot as kids, but mostly for fun. And, we had family, in Texas, in the United States. We went very often. We stayed there sometimes. We lived there for a bit.

>> Victoria: Okay.

>> Alex: And my father in particular was somebody that, like, on a Sunday, he was bored watching tv, and he will tell me, come over. I was like, where are we going? Let's go. Just come over. Okay. I'll go with him and we'll go to the bus station in the morning and he will just pick a bus and, and we'll go there. And I, was like, where we going? I don't know. We'll see. And the first town that the bus ended up, we got off and we just looked around the town and then we'll come back in the evening and m that was his thing. He just liked going out places he had never been and just look around and have a coffee, have a, you know, an ice cream. I was very lucky. He will, he'll try to teach me that.

>> Victoria: Yeah.

>> Alex: And I guess I kind of picked that up. It's not that I don't have roots because I am, very sure of myself and who I am and where I come from. And I'm very proud of it. But I never felt that, I never felt that I had been in a place as, if I don't belong, right. It's more kind of like you make home where you go if you have the chance. I mean, there are people that might not see it that way, but if you're going to be in a place for a long time, you might as well make yourself comfortable.

>> Victoria: Yeah, for sure.

>> Alex: I like to see what was at, the other side of the hill. So I guess that was since I was a very little kid.

>> Victoria: Were you guys ever thinking of moving to France, for instance, where Rachel is from?

>> Alex: I think that she's very much like me in the respect that, if we were to move, whether, if it's France or whether, if it's Mexico, it would not necessarily be exactly where we come from because we like family, but.

>> Alex: We like to go and visit family.

>> Victoria: Yeah. Okay.

>> Alex: So, yeah, so, yeah, sure, I like France. I like certain parts of France more than some, more than others, but, uh-huh. I think it would be more interesting. Or there'll be other places that we will rather see rather than going back, to the same places. But who knows? I mean, honestly, at the moment we're fine here. And where we go next, it will really depend on what, at that moment we need and what we want to do. Yeah, but yeah, France would be a great place.

>> Victoria: Yeah, but I mean, also, you're in your job already for 15 plus years.

>> Alex: You know, at this point I'm just, looking, looking for retirement. When do we retire?

>> Victoria: And then you can make other plants.

>> Alex: Let's go to the Bahamas, who knows?

>> Victoria: She just yelled too many hurricanes.

>> Alex: Yeah, yeah, no, that would not be a. Ah, there you go.

>> Victoria: So it probably will be underwater.

>> Alex: Yes. But, yeah, no, I mean, I'm starting to get more set on my way, so I. I like one of the funny things about traveling for me. And you're going to find this very strange. I mean, at least most people I tell this, they do. I hate hotels. I hate not sleeping in my bed. I Hate not having familiar things next to me. And so when I was traveling, I despised being that long, away from a familiar environment.

>> Victoria: Uh-huh.

>> Alex: And that's why for me, it was great that I was able to just basically go out and stay with Rachel because it would basically be hell from me for two, three weeks. And then I go and be like, okay, I'm home. It's France, but it's home. But, yeah, and then it was fine. And so when we go on vacations, it's kind of like trying to find out a balance between places we want to see and people and, places that I can't stand being in.

>> Victoria: Okay, so you don't go to hotels?

>> Alex: I try not to know. It would be better for us to maybe get an Airbnb or get, a cabin somewhere. I just find hotels really depressing. And if you ever go on a business trip, you know how depressing hotels businessman can be.

>> Victoria: I know, the hotels, but also I grew up in a hotel because my parents had a hotel. and, it was more like a bed and breakfast or like an inn. But our apartment was inside of the same building.

>> Alex: Right.

>> Victoria: So, no, I totally get it. It's like the feeling of the linen, you know, that hard, starchy linens. And, I don't know, it's, it's.

Have you ever seen lost in translation when going on vacation

>> Alex: Have you ever seen lost in translation?

>> Victoria: Yeah, I have seen that.

>> Alex: That was, that basically encapsulates my entire sentiment. It's just kind of like the most depressing thing. You finish work, you come back, you go to the bar. There's two dudes on the bar basically just staring something. There is some random person singing off key on the background.

>> Victoria: Yeah.

>> Alex: And then you're just looking at your glass and you're like, what the hell am I doing here?

>> Victoria: Yeah. That lonely hotel room all by yourself.

>> Alex: Watching fantastic local tv in a language that probably you cannot understand.

>> Victoria: Huh? I totally understand. because, I mean, like, you talk about, like, business travel, but I think if you go on vacation, it's maybe a little bit different because you do together and you do fun stuff. it's a little bit different.

>> Alex: No, it's true. And I think I'm just being a little bit hard headed, probably, and maybe gonna hit me over the head about this.

>> Victoria: Yes, it's a complaining on a high standard.

>> Alex: But, yeah, that's pretty much it. Yeah.

Rachel: I just did some googling about Big Mac prices

>> Victoria: Yeah, I guess, we're coming to an end because this is gonna be a very long episode otherwise.

>> Alex: No, I appreciate it, and I hope it wasn't too boring for you.

>> Victoria: Oh, no, not at all. Not at all. thank you for taking the time I tell everyone. Thank you for taking your time.

>> Victoria: That was alike story, everyone. And I just did some googling, about the big price. And, yeah, they vary in all kinds of cities. So I just checked out the prices.

>> Victoria: For the area where I live, and.

>> Victoria: It'S 375, where I still think that's very cheap, considering that everything around here is exploding in the prices. but, for example, in San Francisco, it's $12, even for Berlin, where food in Germany is always kind of more affordable. It's almost €8, so that's pretty expensive. If you want to learn more about the Big Mac price index, you can check it out. There's even, like, a Wikipedia article about it.

>> Victoria: Yeah.

>> Victoria: It was nice to hear some irish history today. I always find this very interesting. And then also, it was nice to learn about some studying comparison between the US and European. And then I feel like I have to explain it, because I said, excuse me, talking shit about the Irish. That's not. I didn't mean it in a bad way. you know, it was just, like, in a funny way. And I hope people don't misunderstand it, because I feel nowadays, you have to say it if you don't mean it. You know, people always understand things wrong. Okay, so I think that is enough said for this week's episode. it was the longest episode that we had so far. Thanks, Alex, to be on my podcast again. And hi, Rachel, again. And for everyone else who's listening, thank you for tuning in this week, and thank you for listening to the whole episode, and I hope you tune in again next time.

>> Victoria: Bye.