Hi, Amy. Welcome to What Your Next podcast.

Hi. Thank you so much for having me. I'm really excited to be back.

So excited to have you back. I was telling you, I was like, you were selling a book on your stories and I was like, it got me to thinking I need to pick this book up. And I was so delightfully happy to read it. It was like perfect escape to all the housekeeper we're living, and it was just so delightful just to be in this world theater, celebrities, LA and just all this different things. A love letters to theater, which I love.

Thank you so much that. It really means a lot to me, especially like early on. Not that many people have really read it yet, so it's so nice to hear from people.

Yeah.

you specifically.

Yeah. Amy, tell us where you have an opto.

I mean, I feel like I've been writing a lot of books since last I was on. It's the interesting time where the book's not out yet, it's about to come

Yeah.

a lot of promo, a lot of planning for my book tour and a lot of working on the next thing. But you know, I'm, I don't know. Like you said, times are bleak. It's been, nice to be working on stories about queer joy about, stories that center women in a society that feels increasingly not that it's ever been super cool, but like increasingly uncool. So I just, I feel really fortunate that I'm still out here doing like what I've been doing.

Yeah, I remember you coming in the show. I don't know when the series started, like four or five years ago. And at the time it was like there was not a lot of sapphic romances. There was not a lot of stuff, and it's been so wonderful to see like all great number of New Suffolk, Romans, all types celebrities. Not celebrities, grumpy, sunshine, butch, everything like, femme, it doesn't really matter. We are getting stories being told Queer joy. 'Cause so much about queer literature has been about the trauma of, AIDS and all the different things and there's something to be said about the queer joy. It is such a nice little reminder that we can actually have fun, we can have happily afterafter and everything's gonna be okay.

well, and I think too that those of us who are older generations what it used to be like to try to find a book

Yeah.

If you wanted a book with queer characters, you're probably gonna have to encounter some tragedy.

Yeah.

And sense of well, if they get happiness, they've earned it.

Yeah.

Straight people don't have to earn their happiness. They just show up. And like you said, I'm so excited that these are just, a lot of the books being centered now are ones without the tragedy.

Yeah.

and to say they're just about the joy, just not imply that they don't include emotional arcs, journeys, characters go through, but they're not sort of fixating on the tragedy. And that is. It just feels like change I've seen within my lifetime that is so rewarding. Not just as a writer, as a reader, mainly. It's so nice to just pick up a book and if things are going well, not think who's gonna get murdered.

Yes, and there's like nuance, like we can actually look at the spectrum and not think of just one way or one stereotypical way of doing. There's nuance in among characters. There's the spectrum about even mental health. And different ways to come about. So even in our spotlight, we have a closet. Character who has to come to terms, and it's not the big coming out is not this place of this dire need that we grew up in the nineties where it was like, this, your world's gonna fall apart if you came out. Her friends were like, gosh.

it's interesting you mention that though, because honestly. I have sort of in the past shied away from coming out narratives because I did feel like they were of a time where it was so associated with Tragedy, and on top of that, like centering the feelings of straight people.

Yes.

will they think if I come out? My first young adult novels that were queer, I very much was like trying to not make it that much about coming out if at all. my goal was to just not dwell on that. And so there's so much in her spotlight that's about coming out and about having not always the best feelings about your own sexuality. And I felt like one reason I could do that was because, like you said, there's so much more nuance and representation now that I felt like, well, there's so much joy now that if I spend some time on this and why this can be sad and isolating. And the fact that it's not about your sexuality, but it's about society and how they treat you,

Yeah.

still not like revel in the darkness, like still have it ultimately be about community and light.

Yeah.

that's something that this wide range of books has given me that there's space for joy with still some topics within it.

Yeah, so let's talk about if your spotlight, tell the elevator pitch, which is a lovely earth theater that the big one, by what can we expect about this story?

In her spotlight is about the A-list and very closeted actor Tess Gardner. Who got super famous for playing Princess Platinum in a series called The Indicators. I'm sure you can't imagine anything that might be based on. And she's desperate to get back to her first love, which is theater. She wants to do the kind of acting she's not been getting to do, but she did not anticipate that getting back to that first love would throw her up against her other first love her Secret ex-girlfriend, Rebecca Frisch, who was sort of on a last minute replacement directing this production.

Yeah, and we get a little bit of me too, which is very timely especially in LA in the entertainment business, this is a very timely test. Tries to sees the director and she sees she wants to be in theater,, tries to get the role, and then the director. There's a New York Times or whatever article comes out and saying, me Too is happening here. And Rebecca is replacing her. And Tess is oh my gosh, is she gonna kick me out? Although Tess is gonna sell the tickets, you know she's a stunt cat.

Yeah, is. I mainly wanted to set it up because how do you get someone to surprise direct a show?

Yes.

I had to back into whatever that was

Yeah.

If it was gonna be directed by Rebecca Tess would just not audition.

Yeah.

You don't show up for your Secret Ex-girlfriend. So I had to have it be some reason that Rebecca was replacing someone. And the idea of a director being forced out because of a scandal a lot of sense to me. And like you said, it is very timely. it's also the kind of thing that, Tess is going to theater because she's not fully satisfied with her Hollywood career and she's remembering why she got into acting in the first place. And for it to be this sort of like this escape an oasis of this is the true art I'm doing and like you can escape the world because. Shitty things are happening there too.

Yeah.

so I really liked that I only had to force him out because I needed a reason for Rebecca to be a last minute replacement. But ultimately, I think it really, it added a lot to the story because it also added doubt to Tess. Because here she is thinking oh, I've earned my way back. I'm like, gonna do this big role. And then, she has to wonder like, why did he pick her?

Yeah. Yeah. And I think, I love the fact that, she's confronted coming from, doing movies and the way movies are run is very different from theater,

just movies. She's doing

Marvel movies. Yeah.

The biggest parent companies in the world.

so she's very center of like how things are run and then being confronted of being one of many in this group of people rehearsing for a long time. And she cannot even get her, she doesn't even know that she can get her own water. It was like, she was like, oh, is someone gonna water? And it was like, okay, you're just one of many here.

Yeah. But she's not doing, it was really important for me to find, especially when you're writing in first person,

Yeah.

she doesn't have perspective, she's just herself.

Yeah.

the idea that she's not, she really isn't doing anything because she's spoiled. It's because this is how it's been going for so many years in her career, and she's actually been trained. Like you sit in that chair and you're taken care of and you are, someone I talked to basically compared it to being a royal baby. So it's she's royal baby. Like how is that person treated? And now she's not and she's just not prepared for it. But she's not trying to be hard to get along with. She just doesn't know.

Yeah, and then we have Rebecca who is she's been a well known director. She's still trying to, come to terms like, she's staying with her ex-wife and it's like she's a last minute replacement. I may be a director, but I have somebody else to manage the organization part. I'm the artist. And so it's a beautiful thing to see that 'cause it confronts Tess from Noli the history. Rebecca's it's not a big deal. And Tess is this is a big deal. And then to Rebecca being in a position of power for Tess.

Was an important balance for me, that knowing that in a normal situation, the director has so much more power in these situations than the answer, In this particular situation, got two exes and you've also got one who like, yes, Rebecca is really sort of like an up and coming name. She's got a, a buzzy reputation. She gets a lot of press coverage, but she's not where she wants to be in her career yet. Like you don't get last minute replacement jobs if you're actually where you wanna be in your career.

Yeah.

yet she has sort of like the aura of someone who's doing amazingly

Yeah.

Tess is doing amazingly, like Tess is making millions. She could basically get whatever role she wants if her team lets her take it. And it's an interesting the power balance between them. as, spoiler alert, this is a romance. Especially as, the relationship rekindles, it's well, where does that leave you? When the previous director had to resign because of these allegations that he used his standing to force women into positions they might not be an otherwise, I thought a lot about the responsibility of portraying like a really consensual relationship between two people.

Yeah. And it worked. It really worked. So we gotta talk about the other books in a series, because this is part of a companion standalone series.

Yes, I do wanna highlight companion, standalone, whatever one, if you're like, oh, theater, great. Read this one first. You will be fine. You will meet some other characters and the only thing you'll be spoiled on is that everyone gets together with their love interest, which is spoiled by the fact that they are romance novels.

Yeah.

you are fine. Read them in whatever order appeals to you, or that you see them at your bookstore.

Yeah. So it's a very LA centric,

literally the out in Hollywood series.

Yeah, it is a sense of you feel like you're in la you feel like you're entertainment business. There's so from a ghost writer for celebrities agent, an Evo ghost writer to, PR and management and all these different things. You see parts of the entertainment business. So there's multiple books. If you finish in her spotlight, there's books to come back to. And you're all delightful too. All right, so let's talk some book recommendations. What type of books do you wanna recommend your listeners to pick up?

Well, I will talk about some SIC books today because I feel like that's where we are. But I mean, I read, I always say I read everything. I don't think I really read everything, but you know, obviously I read romance. I love literary fiction. I read a lot of nonfiction. I feel like memoir I've gotten more into recently.

Yeah.

yeah, I think everyone is a stronger writer and reader when you read cross genre.

Yes.

you can be inspired by things of, I think other genres do, like romance does some things amazingly, and then other genres do other things amazingly. And sometimes there's overlap and sometimes there's not. I love sort of, getting inspired by pieces of writing that may not literally have to do with what you're working on, but like maybe there's an emotional cue, maybe there's some symbolism that you can pull from. I just, I sort of love having all that in the mix.

So we gotta talk about nonfiction because a lot of times we talk about fiction and books do skip. What kind of nonfiction do you go to? I know you mentioned memoirs, but are they any other like rabbit holes that you're like deep dive and do you see a book like that about a topic or a specific area that you like hone in? You're like, I gotta read this. For me it's pop culture, any type of millennial, any type of specific things related to it. And memoirs related are my go-to.. Nonfiction candy.

I will read so much nonfiction. I was like a year and a half ago I did this really great event at the Santa Barbara Library all about romance. And everyone was like, what's on your bookshelf right now? And it was me and other two authors and they both were reading these, romance novels. That sounded amazingly. And I was like, oh, I'm reading the oral history of nine 11.

Yes, that was

So was such an, oh my god. A special good book. So I really like, like I love a deep dive. I love sort of modern history, like covering something that's been within my lifetime

yes.

I'm really interested in. Really smart takes on pop culture.

Yes.

Boland really good at writing about that. I think Sophie Gilbert had the sort of like millennial pop culture that came out last year that was so wonderful.

Yeah.

I love all of that. I'm really into of, sociology of,

Yeah.

Sort of the, just to really distill it. But the two Americas, I think I can't quite get enough of that, even though why? It just makes me sad. But I do find it, I find it very fascinating. So yeah, I just literally, someone was like, you should read this book about dinosaurs. It's very interesting. And it was, and I was really excited I read it. So no, I don't even have a type of nonfiction book. It is across the board.

I have to tell you, I've read books about groceries. I was fascinated. It was triggering as fuck. I did not realize about groceries. It was triggering.

think that's on my library holds list. I'm not even kidding.

There is actually best movie year ever, which is all the movies that came out in 1999. It was like a deep dive of like my senior year of high school every week seeing a movie, and it was like, for the suicide, the Mummy, the Matrix office phase. It was like one after the other. I was like, what a great year of movies that we haven't had.

Yeah.

So there's something for nonfiction. I feel like people are intimidated by it. They're like, it's all boring. No, there's always something for it.

Yes, I agree. And I feel like I'm so glad we're talking about this because if you were out there and you think, I mean, I feel the same way about Lit fic because I see so many, like back in the day of Twitter, RIP people would say oh, I don't wanna read Lit fic. I don't care about 40-year-old men who are sad and doing their taxes. I'm like. You guys lit. FIC is so horny. There are so many

Yeah.

women characters making terrible choices that are very relatable and fun. Like whatever you think you're getting out of romance, like as long as you can set aside the guaranteed happy ending, I promise you're gonna get a lot of the other stuff. So I think like anytime you are afraid of a certain genre, talk to people who read it and find out because yeah, nonfiction not boring, I'm sure. Yeah, there are boring books within it,

Yeah.

books all over.

Yeah.

many fascinating topics.

All right. Let's talk about sapphics books. Do you have Suffolk provinces, You got a little bit of everything there

Yeah. Yeah. There's a book that just came out that I did blurb called Rooting Interest

mm-hmm.

Cat Sabato. This is a SAV Romance about a sports reporter and A-W-N-B-A player. It's so beautifully written. It's really hot. It's just, it has something I like in it, which is, there's stuff about career and ambition as well, because to me, like the perfect romance is not just about a story of the romance. It's about the rest of their lives. I really sort of always fall for characters who are like, Hey, you're important. So is my career. How are we gonna make this all happen? And it's, the prose is just, oh, it's so well written. I really recommend this book.

Oh my gosh, I'm excited. And you also have flirting Lessons by Jasmine Guillory.

Yes, I mean. Everyone knows Jasmine Guillory is the Queen of Romance,

Yeah.

it's her first Suffolk book. I hope not the last one

I hope so too.

Oh, it's so good. Romance is set in California in wine country, and I love a like a dummy, still lovers, like two people who are just like, oh, we're just doing this other thing. And you're like okay. We know what's happening between you two. That is always very appealing to me.

Yes. I think you have Llly King, you reread writers and lovers

I just reread writers and lovers because I picked up Heart the Lover

Yeah.

came out, and I knew that I was I don't know, is this a prequel? Is it a sequel? Is it a companion? I don't know what it is, but I don't remember writers and lovers enough to feel like I'm gonna gain things from this. So I reread that first. That is such a beautiful book. If you haven't read it, it is. So it's beautifully written. It contains so many truths about being a woman, about being a writer, about having the ambition to write, but also how hard it is, how much our society is constantly just oh yeah, you're never gonna be successful. Who cares? And watching a character who has the determination to keep going, find this book so beautiful, so well earned, just. I recommend it to everyone, especially I will say, especially to writers, but I just think for anyone, it's a beautiful story and it's funny 'cause it's not a romance, but it's also not a romance.

Yeah, I think Lilly King is a good introduction to lit fiction. This is a, this is like a good one. You can just get started and you're like, oh, there's a world out there.

Her prose is also, it's so simple and stripped down, and she manages to convey so much in these like really spare sentences. So it's also to me like a masterclass in, you can really things down and find so much meaning.

Yeah.

So yeah, heart The Lover, the new book, which is a prequel and a sequel in one. It's basically, I feel like a book the With a Hole in it, which is writers and lovers, and yet it doesn't feel like there's a hole in it. I love her writing. I love how she's able to convey these really big life truths in so little and is not afraid to shy away from hard things, but is also, I think sometimes, I'm doing air quotes, serious writers are afraid to lean into happiness and joy, and she's not afraid of giving us that too.

I really appreciate it. And then you gotta talk about this bisexual, telling about it was sleeping because I like, I haven't of this book and I'm like, this could be my next read.

Literally, that's why I always tell people about it because I'm like, as soon as I said it, you wanna read it. Right?

Yes.

it's called Alice Ru Evades the Truth. It's by Emily Zips. It's her debut novel. It is a bisexual retelling of while you were sleeping about a woman who works an overnight job at a front desk in an office, sees this guy all the time. He's very handsome. Saves his life, misunderstandings and Sue. But he has a very hot sister and love this romance so much.

Oh my gosh. I'm adding this one to my next TBR, so yeah.

it, you should talk to Emily. She has another book coming out, I think later this year and next that I'm also excited about. well, I had a blast reading it, but also the premise is actually so stressful 'cause like you're lying to these people's families.

Yes.

Earn that, that I'm like, I'm still rooting for you, despite you being a liar.

Yes. The stakes are higher when you're actually

yes. It does such a good job at doing, at making you genuinely stressed the whole time.

Yeah.

If I say this and you're delighted by the idea of bisexual while you're sleeping, please go read this book immediately. It will not disappoint.

I am adding this one for the tbr So Amy, tell us, we can find you online.

Mainly I am on Instagram that ames, which is a horrible username to try to say aloud. No one knows what I'm saying. It's T-H-A-T-A-M-E-S. You can also find me@theamyspalding.com. I mean Google. Amy Spalding. I will show up name, not literally, you'll find me

Awesome. Thank you, Amy, for being in the shower.

Oh my gosh. Thank you so much for having me back. This was a blast.

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