At one point, it was definitely like, I was like, I'm an actor and, you know, I'd like to make music as well.

I enjoy both so much.

So I think that if one does well, the other will kind of pick up a little bit.

From classics to curiosity and where melodies meet meaning.

Welcome.

All right, here we go, man.

I'm excited for this chat today.

How are you doing, sir?

Doing excellent.

How are you?

Good, man, I'm good.

And the voice that you're hearing Besides mine is Mr. Tate.

Yap.

Yeah, it's good to chat, man.

I know you met one of.

One of my colleagues while you were at an event or playing during the summertime, I believe.

And yeah, I was.

I was busking in Mississauga, and he came up to me after a song and kind of introduced himself.

So, yeah, happy to be chatting.

Yeah.

Really raving about you.

And I was like, okay, cool, cool, cool.

So, yeah, it's good to connect on here.

I know we talked a little bit through email in the past, and here we are.

So tell me a little bit about yourself as far as musically.

I know you're.

Well, you're a musician, songwriter.

Yeah, yeah, I started.

I've been in the entertainment industry for quite some time, so I started acting when I was a kid, about 5 years old, and with that, I think singing was kind of just like, an asset to have.

So I got, like, singing lessons as a child, and then second, my voice dropped.

Everything sounded terrible, so I kind of gave up on it for quite.

Quite a few years.

But that's funny.

Once I.

Once I got a car and started listening to music in the car again, I started just singing my heart out really, really badly to, like, Lewis Capaldi and, like, all the voice cracks possible, but I got the range back and found your.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I found my voice back a little bit.

I'd like to think so.

Yeah.

I went to college and was going through some stuff and decided to just start kind of writing about it, and it helped me.

And then eventually there was a decent response online, so I was like, you know, kind of go forward with that and give it a shot.

So kind of like a natural progression from like, just, you know, singing, practicing, and then you just decided, you know, let me start writing some songs.

Yeah, absolutely.

I needed something as kind of like a therapeutic escape, and music did that for me.

So music does that for sure.

Why not?

Yeah.

Were you around other people who were doing similar or had, like, similar interests at that point?

No, actually, not really.

I went to school for Film so people were kind of in a creative space in general.

But music, not really.

I.

Okay, yeah.

And I just bought a guitar and then it's funny actually all my roommates had end up moving out from my dorm so it was like a four room, two bathroom dorm at in college and everyone had either dropped out or failed.

So I had a guitar and like nobody around me so I just spent hours and hours.

So yeah.

Nice.

Yeah.

Okay, that's interesting.

Maybe the guitar kept you in and the others probably should have picked up guitar too.

That's interesting.

So and you grew up outside of Toronto, like outside of the gta?

Actually I did myself.

Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.

I grew up in Hamilton.

Oh, okay.

Yeah, very close, man.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

I forget often that I did, but yeah, yeah I did.

So I know my experience.

But what was it like for you being like outside of the GTA but like.

Cause you know how it is.

Seems to be all the action is really in the Toronto area or at least it was for a long time.

I mean the outskirts are getting some love now but yeah, I mean Cambridge gets some stuff.

Not like acting wise, that was more so of not a struggle or anything but growing up my mom didn't drive and my dad worked a lot.

So like when I went to auditions and stuff like that, it was like three, four hours each way taking buses or.

Yeah, it was a journey.

So I think that was the biggest struggle.

Yeah, I think nowadays we get a little bit more business out in this end but still everything I do is either Toronto, Vancouver, Montreal, like it's nowhere nearby like the hubs.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Like it's nice that it's not too far but now that I drive it's not a big, big deal.

But growing up in the industry, like yeah, like full school days off every audition I had.

So that's crazy.

Yeah, I wasn't complaining.

My mom, sure, you know, maybe she didn't like the job sacrifice there.

Yeah, yeah.

But she did it and I'm grateful for that.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

It's crazy, eh?

Because the distance was really a thing.

And maybe not having a car, you know, being underage, it's like you're relying on a parent or somebody to get you around to these things.

And like you said, missing a whole day of school to pursue an opportunity that's not even guaranteed.

And this is just a part of the process.

Absolutely crazy.

But things have changed a lot because now, I mean online world is so connected.

Incredibly.

Like I rarely go into in person auditions unless it's like a callback or something like that.

Most first auditions in the acting side is all online now, so.

Yeah, yeah, it's convenient.

It's not the same, but it's.

It's convenient at least.

So.

Yeah, yeah, you're right.

It's not the same.

But you can, you can get a lot done.

I haven't left the house in like six weeks.

No, I'm just joking.

But you could get away with it these days.

You could.

You could.

Absolutely.

You could do a lot from your house now especially.

Yeah, music.

Music wise, too.

Like all the social media stuff, which is so important these days, is all like, you know, doing a lot of work at home or going out and filming.

You've done well there.

You've done well on socials too.

Thank you.

I'm trying to.

Yeah, it's.

It's.

It's different.

Like, I, I feel like I kind of wish things were the way they used to be, music wise, where, you know, you.

You go out and you play and hope someone hears you and.

Yeah, this kind of stuff.

But now it's really like, you got to be smart with marketing and different video ideas and it's, it's really changed.

Not that I have experience prior to this new environment, but you're learning as you go, right?

Yeah, yeah.

It's a whole, whole new world landscape as far as that side goes.

But it seems like you're adapting well.

I mean, yeah, yeah, yeah, you've done well online.

Is that like, how much trial and error has that?

Well, first of all, do you enjoy that side of things?

That's always something I want.

Yes.

Yeah, no, I definitely do.

Especially like, I went to school for film as well, so I have a lot of film people around me who come up with crazy ideas for music videos and okay, stuff like that.

So that part's super fun.

The only part, it's just like the.

I have a hard time, like, posting just to post.

Like, I feel like I want to post something of quality and not like posting because I know I should post like twice a week or once a day or whatever it may be.

So, yeah, trying to navigate that but actually making like different types of content I do enjoy already.

Well, that's, that's, that's a bonus.

Yeah, you have the film background and all the rest.

So, yeah, I guess you can.

It all goes together.

Like, it ties together and makes sense.

Those metrics and like those are.

Or at least the standards of how often you should be posting and all that stuff.

That just gives me anxiety.

Just thinking about.

You said once, twice a week, so that's better.

Because some people are like, three times a day, two times a day, every day.

Seems crazy overwhelming.

I'm sure there's something to it.

Like, the more videos you put out, the more chance that, you know, one of them might pop off or, you know.

Yeah, but.

Yeah, yeah, I know about three times a day.

That.

That sounds nuts.

That sounds nice.

There's another side of.

I guess if you're posting, you know, you said, like, quality things are of substance that, like, really matter.

So you're not just throwing something out there.

Yeah.

There's a confidence that has to go with that, too.

Like, you have to really believe in a thing to say.

I'm not going to do this every day just so there's like, you know, a higher.

Higher odds of something popping off.

But I'm going to put something really good together and that's it.

Yeah, yeah, definitely.

Definitely.

That's different.

Yeah, yeah.

I don't know if I'm, like, delusional or confident, but I try.

I try to keep it that way.

Yeah, yeah.

You have to be a little bit delusional in the business sometimes.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

That's.

As of this moment, I. I'm posting once a year.

I'm gonna get the highest quality, and it's gonna be that stuff for the year, folks.

Wait for it.

Genius.

Genius.

Someone's going to be like, you know what?

Yeah, that's it.

If it takes off for you, you're welcome in advance.

Yeah, absolutely.

Yeah, yeah.

But.

Okay, so on this whole social thing, I mean, have you noticed, like, certain patterns as far as what people want to see from you or, like, kind of what sticks or resonates with your audience?

Yeah, man, that.

That's kind of a tough one.

I've actually, like, this is something I've been trying to work on since I don't just.

And I'm kind of like, in the acting.

I've also worked with, like, some YouTube channel channels in the past, too.

So kind of navigating how to, like, upload all this content and have all of my audience enjoy all of it.

It's kind of something I've been trying to work on.

Right.

Like, trying to sell more so like myself rather than each individual thing I do, because for a while I was just posting about music.

Like, I would either post covers or, you know, sing on Omega or something like that, or music video clips, but then I was like, you know, like, there's other aspects of my life that I. I Kind of want to post about as well.

So I've been trying to talk more in my videos and not just have it like, you know, lip syncing to music or whatever it may be.

We'll see where that takes it.

But hopefully I can kind of transfer over to that.

That kind of content where I'm doing a little bit of everything and people are following me.

Yeah.

Me.

Than one thing or another.

Still finding that, I guess that balance that works for you and.

Yeah.

That dirty word, the algorithms.

And then still being like your true self and.

Yeah.

And then you do.

You do a lot more.

I mean as far as.

A lot of.

A lot of people are focused on like one thing and that's going to be as an artist focusing on music.

But when you take into consideration acting and the other, you know, film.

Yeah.

Related things, you do that.

That does seem like it would present some challenges as far as just the light to show yourself in.

And then you have split audiences.

Some people love film only and not really big on music and.

Exactly.

Okay.

That's the tough part.

Like if people are following me because they saw like a post of mine about music and then start posting about something else, then, you know, they might lose interest.

And then like when I was growing up, like on social media, all of my following was from acting.

So you're not music stuff.

Like I gotta figure out how to sell them on that.

So.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

And then on the music part too.

How did you kind of discover your lane?

Is it more like, like valid?

Yeah.

When I first started writing stuff, like I said.

So I was going on a road trip and I stopped off at a friend's house and he had a guitar and I didn't know how to play guitar.

I played piano my life.

But I picked it up and like was just messing around and wrote like a small little tune or something.

I was like, this is kind of fun.

So yeah, when I got back, I went on Facebook Marketplace and bought a guitar.

And this music I started making in the very beginning, kind of just messing around is so different to what it is now.

I have one track that was one of the first songs that I was writing and messing around with on guitar.

And it's so different to the whole ballad stuff.

So.

Yeah.

Putting that out kind of.

I don't know.

I put out that one and I don't know what the change was.

Okay.

If I just got sadder.

But somehow I went from playing like upbeat songs on my guitar.

Yeah.

Sitting out my piano and like pouring my soul out yeah, yeah.

The rainy days were best for that writing session.

Yeah, Yeah.

I don't know if it's just I listen to a lot of.

A lot of that type of music, like Louis Capaldi, all these people who kind of make more ballad stuff.

So I don't know if that's why I went that route.

Draws it out of you, right?

Yeah, Yeah, I guess.

You mentioned therapy, so I guess that's where the therapeutic aspect comes in.

Exactly.

You're just letting it all out.

You ever cry when you're writing a song?

Yeah, yeah, it's happened.

It's happened.

I started laughing before I knew you were gonna say yes.

Yeah, you never know, man.

These days, not so much, but definitely in the beginning when I was going through it and you know.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

That's cool, man.

That's like.

That's.

That's true.

Yeah.

That's drawing emotions for sure.

Yeah.

Geez.

I might sit down, have a good crying, and write a song this afternoon.

That's a good.

Yeah, I'll do it as well, man.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So is guitar your preferred way of writing?

No, it's definitely piano now.

Oh, okay.

Okay.

I kind of just started off that way.

I think it's because, like, I was in college in a dorm.

I didn't have a piano there.

So when I did pick up my guitar, like on my off time, that was all I was doing.

I had no roommates anymore, so I was just in my room messing around.

I had a guitar, watching YouTube videos and, yeah, that was my only option to.

To sing and stuff.

So that's cool.

Yeah.

So you've come a long way since then.

Obviously you've done a lot, you know, a lot of things.

You've also connected with a lot of, like, you know, industry professionals and, yeah, things like that.

How did, like, what's.

What took place?

So you're in your dorm room practicing what kind was the next steps to kind of get you in the direction that you are currently.

The path that you're currently on.

And so, yeah, I was writing my dorm and then I was chatting with a good buddy of mine.

His dad owns a recording studio in his, like, basement.

That's his profession.

He does a lot of, like, voice acting work and stuff like that.

Nice.

So I think I was just chatting with him and he was like, hey, like, if you want to, like, just test out a first song, like, come through and.

And we'll record it.

So I did that.

And then when I started writing, like, the more ballad stuff, I would sing Sing them to people on Omega a lot.

And I got a great response there.

Like people seemed to enjoy it.

And then I ran into a creator in Southeast Asia who ended up posting it and I got quite a good response there.

Like the video got over 1.6 million views.

I think.

So.

Yeah.

When people were relating to it in the comments and stuff, I was like, I think this is the direction to go.

Yeah.

Just about two years ago, I first put out my first more like ballad song where it's kind of more my thing.

And yeah.

Yeah.

Ever since then I've just been continuing at it every once in a while, you know, budget wise, when it allows for it.

I try to work with different producers in the industry.

Just go through my.

My like song is on Spotify, look at the credits and email away.

Probably send like 20, 30, 40 emails before I get a response.

But then I do get a response and you know, it's worth it.

So that's where I'm at now.

I. Yeah, yeah.

No, exactly.

So, yeah, these days I just write, right.

Go to Toronto to record.

I produce most of my music and then, you know, when I can try to work with some other people.

And yeah, I think it's important too.

Not only because, you know, their work is different and probably better as well.

But rely on other people's strengths.

Yeah.

100.

I learned something every time that, you know, I get stems back from a producer.

That's important.

That's important.

Always learning, man.

So as you were talking, I thought about something.

I don't even know if I really considered this before because I know there's this feeling when you're in front of a live audience and you get that automatic feedback and it's like, you know, you're like on cloud a thousand.

It just feels amazing.

But what's it like when you hit those, like those high numbers?

Because obviously, you know, a million people, you're not going to be in a room that big.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Is that like.

Does that like compare to that live feeling when you wow the crowd?

That response.

Then that's hard to say.

I, I would say no.

I, I still think even like, like any size of live audience, if there's a good reaction, I feel that a little bit more just because like it's, it's a number on my screen.

Yeah.

When people message me though, however, from that, like when the numbers do go a little bit higher and people are hearing it and relating to it, when I get like deep messages that people send me about it, that hits as hard I would say that's a little different.

Right?

Yeah, yeah, that makes sense.

That makes sense.

These numbers, like, do matter in a sense.

Not that they, you know, it's not just about numbers, but.

Right.

They do reach people, and people reach out and they say, I've, you know, either made a difference or, you know, they felt seen or something like this.

Yeah.

Like, wow.

Like, kind of keeps me going.

Really validating, right?

Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

It is cool, though, because, I mean, the online space, you're reaching people all across the world, people you probably will never see or meet.

Yeah.

And you're impacting them in some way.

That's.

That's.

It's neat, man.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

That's really cool as far as, like, because there's so many hats that you have to wear as an artist, and a lot of people struggle not only with the social and marketing side, but then, you know, how that branding directly relates.

A lot of people struggle to find, like, their, like, their voice, so to speak, like, what image they want to put out.

And I see artists changing all the time.

It's like you're trying to see what resonates with other people.

What lessons have you learned in, like, just staying true to who you are, what you do?

Because it's really.

I could see, like, if someone likes something that you don't necessarily connect with, I could see how it might give you the little push to be like, you know, I'm going to do more of that thing.

Yeah.

See how you can lose your way pretty quickly.

So what's, like, what.

What have you learned from that that you can share?

I've definitely, like, I've definitely let that sort of influence me in the past where, like, you know, if one type of video would do well, I would try to go down that lane a little bit more.

Or.

Which makes sense.

Yeah.

Which makes sense.

But in my opinion, like, if I'm gonna build an audience and I want it to last long term, I should just be authentic and, you know, whatever that looks like is how that looks like.

And if, you know, they like it, they like it.

If they don't, they don't.

Yeah.

I'd rather slowly build an audience who's like, you know, really supporting me rather than, you know, having a million followers because I posted a couple viral videos, you know, I don't think.

Who knows, there's some people who can pull it off where, you know, maybe they start with, you know, bringing all these people in and then transition into, you know, getting them to be real supporters, true fans.

Yeah.

True fans, but I am not a master at that, so I don't know if that's the route for me.

So, yeah, in recent months I've just trying to just post whatever I think of or.

Yeah, you know how I feel to post.

And I think the response is.

Is good, even if the numbers aren't as high.

Like, the engagement's definitely better and makes sense.

Yeah, yeah.

I'm gonna try to continue down that road and focus less on, you know, what.

What could go viral or what could do this.

Obviously I feel like you had to do that a little bit, but maybe that's where, you know, trial reels come in handy.

True.

Yeah.

Yeah.

People are seeing it and yeah, if they go to my profile and they like the rest of the stuff, then.

They'Ll stick around because the algorithm still matters.

You still have to get it.

Yeah, the, the eyes.

Yeah, all that good stuff.

But yeah, yeah, it's.

That makes sense.

And the slow growth is not as, not as attractive.

For sure.

Like, you want to hit the top tomorrow so you can spend the rest of your days at the top.

But yes, reality for most is like, it's.

It's a climb.

We're going.

You're telling a story just like your songs are telling a story and taking some people somewhere.

It's like your career, you're.

You're grinding a lot of work that obviously people don't see that you've done and are continuing to do.

But then you have the.

I guess there's some pressure too, to kind of satisfy these other numbers.

And you're doing this.

Probably.

I don't know if you have backing.

No.

Like, no label or anything backed.

No, no, it's all self funded.

So.

Okay, so then like streaming is another thing that matters because you're doing well there.

Really well.

Thank you.

How does that have.

Like, how have you tackled that?

Because to me it seems like it's a completely separate machine almost.

Oh, 100.

Yeah.

The content versus streaming is totally different.

And I wish I could sit here and say I understood how the streaming side works.

I don't know exactly how I've gotten like, specifically on Spotify, the.

Okay.

Success that I've had so far.

Yeah, I'm pretty pleased with it.

Yeah.

I don't know how it's happened.

If the Spotify algorithm just likes me or, you know, maybe I'm promoting.

I could see that.

Talented.

You know, I don't know if I just get lucky on the algorithm or.

Yeah, I could be doing something right when I'm Promoting my releases and, like, that traffic triggers something.

I really don't know how the algorithms work, but it's definitely totally separate.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Like, I've had, for example, if I'm promoting clips or, you know, a music video clip for a song on social media, and that does really well.

Yeah, Maybe that's my lowest stream song.

You know, I mean, like, there's not a crazy amount of correlation.

Interesting.

Which is interesting.

You wouldn't think that, but I think at a smaller level, where, you know, on social media, I do have some videos where there's quite a few eyes on it, and most of them are kind of like, not small.

Small.

But, you know, I mean, I think if something did, like, blow up and say I have, like, 10 million views on a video, that would probably change.

Yeah, I guess so.

Under certain numbers.

And it's just like, again, it's just a numbers game.

So it's percentages at that point, but exactly.

Yeah, that's.

Yeah, that's interesting.

That doesn't.

I mean, I get it.

Right.

Cause it's like, you know, it's working.

You're not necessarily sitting here every day trying to figure out why.

You're just doing what you do.

Yeah.

I don't know.

Can you give us a little bit about how you have approached the streaming part?

Like, how you got into it and what you've been doing?

Absolutely.

I mean, Spotify is, like, in my opinion, the biggest service at the moment.

I put a lot of my focus on, like, making sure my pitches are good to editors when I'm releasing, trying to make them unique.

I've had some success in that.

Like, I learned this year I had my first song on an editorial playlist, which was awesome.

All I'll ever have.

Yeah.

Thank you.

Thank you.

And it was actually really cool.

Kind of a side note, but the playlist was showcasing Asian artists and being mixed myself.

Like, it felt really nice to be included in something that's really cool.

Yeah.

And I struggle to find, like, my identity in society sometimes, you know?

Yeah, that was really neat.

But, yeah, the.

The playlist pitching is really important, I think.

And then I utilize.

Spotify has, like, marquee and showcase campaigns, they call it.

So.

Yep.

Thumbs.

If you're scrolling on Spotify, your whole screen will pop up and I'll say, hey, like, new release from T app.

Or sometimes it'll just be, like, in the corner.

So I try to put as much as I can into that because, you know, if someone's gonna click on it and listen to it, like they add it to their playlists.

That's probably one of the best ways to get like a, a long term listener in my opinion.

Because adding it to their personal playlist of.

Yeah.

And then like when they're shuffling through like they're gonna hear it again and they're on Spotify and if they're clicking on an ad, like an ad for Spotify, they have some intent to actually, you know, listen and they definitely like music.

So yeah, that's where I put most of my priority when I'm releasing is those, those, those campaigns.

I do run stuff on Instagram and Facebook in that pretty much all the time.

Okay.

But yeah, yeah, that's, that's.

Yeah, maybe that has something to do with it as well.

I, I'm not sure if the algorithm takes like consideration of like how well your campaigns do, if it's like the save rate is above average or anything like that.

But yeah, that's a possibility as well.

Yeah, yeah, that's where my focus is there.

That's neat.

I think that's useful.

So what, what would you say for someone, artists who's like, you know, a just started recording or I've recorded, you know, an EP or something and this is a whole new world to me.

I've been doing pretty well on socials, but I need to get my music on streaming.

What would you say are like the first couple steps or at least something to consider before you get in, get down, like go down that road.

Oh man, that's a good question.

Really, just I would just say utilize every tool that you have on each platform.

So that's like Spotify, there's canvases.

You can make things like that I think make a big difference.

Like canvases are like the artwork.

Yeah.

So on Spotify you have like your cover art and if you have no canvas, if someone presses on your song, it just shows the artwork.

But if you record a canvas, it's like a eight second video that plays.

Listening to it.

And as a listener, I've noticed that's something that attracts me.

Like if I'm watching a cool video or something while the, while the, the song's playing, I feel more attached to that song or maybe even the artist.

If I have a few of their songs and I'm seeing their face a few different times, I feel like that's pretty important.

That's big.

Yeah.

If I'm a listener coming from just a streaming service rather than, you know, following someone on Instagram and then checking out their music.

Yeah, that's something I've definitely noticed that, you know, like, maybe I'll go and check them out elsewhere as well.

Makes sense.

Yeah.

That's big.

Yeah.

That and just like releasing often, that's something, you know, I have to improve as well.

Just time and, you know, budget wise, I gotta figure things out there.

All these things in.

Yeah.

Often, though, is that like once a year you're putting something out.

Like, I've been releasing singles and in get, at least from my experience, in my opinion, there's obviously exceptions to everything, but in the new, like, social media world, I feel like until you build, like a fairly big audience, singles are kind of the way to go.

Like, I'm not sure that if I put out an album, if my listeners would listen to, you know, all 10 songs or whatever it may be, maybe they will, maybe they won't.

I know it's tough because it's like the listening habits have changed a lot since.

Yes.

So I get that.

And you're going to spend a lot of money to put together those 10 songs in one chunk.

Put it all out.

Yeah.

People's attention span is short, so they love three of them.

They don't give the other chance.

Yeah, yeah.

So, yeah.

So I think until you have, like, proper fan base who's really, really supporting you, people are staying up till midnight to stream those albums or those things.

Yeah.

I think that's when, you know, I get trip.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I'll probably, you know, release albums or EPs at a later stage when.

Makes sense.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Okay.

Well, yeah, I think things to look forward to.

Right.

Are the way to go for now.

It's working.

It's working.

Thank you.

Yeah.

So.

So we've talked about the social streaming, the other part of this, and I think that's how kind of, you know, our connection happened through Joel.

Yes.

Is the live performances.

So how do you factor that in?

How busy are you or how busy do you, like.

What.

What's.

What, what's your live strategy?

Yeah, um, so I'm quite new to that.

Uh, okay.

Last year I got my busking license from Mississauga, um, where I'd sit on the streets here and there.

And then I did the same this year.

Uh, and that was the.

Pretty much the extent of my live experience up until recently.

Um, I just started getting into the live world and I just got like, I just got a setup now so I have something red, my piano in the background and.

Yeah.

Got the.

Okay.

Yeah, I got the nord.

It's overkill, maybe, but, you know, it's a good investment.

You're good.

Yeah, yeah.

But you'll need.

Exactly.

Yeah.

Like I was debating on it for a while and then I went to a few concerts and like big arenas and it was there, I think so, you know.

Yeah, that's the thing.

It's.

It's good enough for your studio.

Yes.

It's gonna work in every.

Every environment.

So.

Right.

You're investing in your.

In yourself and your craft.

Otherwise I'm gonna buy one now and then buy one again in like a year or two.

So.

So.

Yep.

Makes sense.

I actually have my first show in like a week from now, so I'm excited for that.

It's at Rivoli in Toronto.

It's for breaking stuff, so that should be fun.

That's cool.

Next Wednesday?

Yeah, yeah.

So I'm just starting to navigate it.

I played one event about a month ago which was a little bit different.

It wasn't like a show for me and my music.

I did play.

Got you some.

My music, but it was more so just provid.

Background music.

That was a nice way to kind of ease in and then have that show.

I just got approached to open for an artist in London, so I'm going to do that December.

So slowly navigating all your music, right?

Yeah, yeah, that'll be all my music stuff.

So which is.

Which is nice.

And I'm excited to get that experience in because quite often I email like, you know, artists that I listen to.

I'll email their managers or talk to them in person and see if I can open for them.

And you know, sometimes it leads nowhere, but yeah, you never know if it.

Does, doors are opening.

That's actually really.

It's really interesting because you're starting to do more shows now and you've already established like a.

A fan base and like a true support base through streaming social.

Yeah.

So now that's going to take people on a whole new journey.

Like they get to see you in another context and live like in person.

That's.

That's huge because they've been watching you on their phones for a long time.

So that's really neat.

I feel like that's going to cause a bit of an explosion too.

Just.

I hope so.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, they're gonna.

Yeah, it's gonna be different for sure.

They'll realize how much auto tune I use.

Not.

Just kidding.

You're fired.

Auto Tune Tech.

Yeah, absolutely.

That's really neat.

No, no, it should be fun.

I'm excited for it.

And wait, so this is your first show?

Like your own, like, original music, full show.

Yeah, yeah.

And.

Or is it just you, like, what's the story?

Just me and my piano.

Oh, that's gonna be fun.

Nice.

Yeah, nice.

Okay, I'm excited.

That's really cool.

Yeah.

All right.

Where the live world takes me, I'll probably just continue to do little gigs here and there.

And.

Yeah, that's.

I constantly reach out to, like, bigger musicians and stuff, and if I go to their concert, got to meet them after and say, hey, like, what do I need to do to open for you or information and shoot my shot if it goes nowhere.

At least I tried, so.

No, it makes sense.

You gotta ask, right?

Nothing tried, nothing gained.

So that's smart in itself because, I mean, even if you know how it goes, you don't get the.

You might not get the opportunity immediately, but you made that initial connection.

Absolutely.

So, you know, the door's at least a little bit open at that point.

Yeah, absolutely.

They might.

They might remember you at the right time or you might cross paths again.

And it's like, you never know.

Yeah.

So that's smart, man.

Yeah, Keep doing that.

Absolutely.

That's a good one for others, too.

A lot of people are afraid to ask.

That's the thing.

Right.

And that's something I've noticed when I've talked to a bunch of people about, you know, whether it's just going up to an artist after a concert or even sometimes when I had, like, some producers working on my stuff where, you know, some of their work is a little bit more well known.

People like, oh, how did you do that?

And then, you know, like 30, 40 people and I got zero responses.

And then.

Right.

People responded.

And, like, a lot of people are afraid of the rejection, which I get.

Yeah.

I feel like being in the entertainment industry as long as I have been, kind of like, equip me for that.

So maybe that's where you got thick skin.

That's for sure.

Yeah.

I've been told no a billion times and.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Gotten this close to dream roles and.

Yeah.

Because you're auditioning and you've been doing that your whole life.

Pretty much.

Right?

Yeah.

Yeah.

So you've got thicker skin than most, then.

Yeah, yeah.

Which is good.

Yeah.

It's useful in this space, for sure.

Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

That's cool.

That's cool.

Yeah.

So congrats on that, man.

Thank you.

Show, like, first one man, one piano audience.

Yes.

Nice.

How she goes.

Yeah, yeah.

Cool, cool.

Okay.

Exciting, exciting.

Do you have future plans, like, as far as, like, okay, so talking about your show, the way you're starting, have you envisioned, like, a direction forward?

Are you taking it show by show as far as, like, do you want to add other people or what do you think there?

Oh, man, I. Yeah, my whole.

My ideal plan is to just start opening for, you know, start with small artists and then.

Okay, they build my way up and maybe as I get, like, footage or.

I don't know.

Again, I'm new to the live, live world, so maybe getting footage and, you know, having that online will entice people more in the future to reach back out or stuff like that.

But in terms of adding people, there's definitely.

I released one, like, upbeat song and there's a lot of, like, drums and, you know, stuff like that.

So when.

Yeah, when the time's right, I would love to, you know, build a band of, you know, a drummer, guitarist, something like that.

Yeah, I think that would be nice.

But for the current moment, I just go around with my piano and.

Oh, it's cool.

It's actually.

It's really special.

Yeah.

I think that kind of intimate performance, like, really draws people in, connects.

There's no distractions.

Right.

Yeah.

People are locked in, into everything focused.

On you, which can be a good thing.

So.

Yeah, I saw an artist named Ken Ducrow, opened for Callum Scott last year.

Nice.

And he was.

Yeah, it was just him and his piano and, like, that was, like, the best opening performance I've seen.

So that's cool.

When I saw that, I was like, you know, maybe I don't need to, you know, wait to have a.

A band or all this fancy stuff.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's true.

Yeah.

So, yeah, why wait?

Right?

Yeah.

Yeah.

You're gonna waste a lot of time building towards, like, started 100.

Yeah.

Follow as it should, I'm sure.

So.

Because it's never going to be, like, perfect.

Some people are waiting for that perfect moment or perfect song or that perfect sound.

It's like, just put it out.

Do it.

Just try.

Yeah, yeah.

There's so much.

And you grow so much by just doing things too right.

You can overthink them and, like, talk yourself out of what would have come next, or you can just.

Yeah.

You have no idea what would have happened.

Yeah, yeah.

Hey, Nike was right.

Just do it.

That's like the truest words.

Yeah, yeah.

That's cool.

That's cool.

There's so much to look forward to with what you're doing.

I want you to.

If you don't mind, could you give some advice?

Because now I mean, you've taken us through your story.

Yeah.

Some of your story from the dorm room.

Absolutely.

You had a four bedroom house to yourself.

That's kind of.

Yeah, it's like kind of cool actually.

I went to Fanshawe College in London and yeah, their dorms are like four bedrooms, bedroom apartments.

There's like a kitchen, living room, two bathrooms.

That's cool.

Yeah, it was cool.

I was left with that, the.

All the roommates, their stuff.

So the food was rotten when I got back and I had to deal with a lot of that.

But it was worth it by the end of it.

Yeah.

After that it was good.

Yeah, that was cool.

That is funny.

Okay.

I got, I distracted myself because I just took that in, what you actually told me.

But as far as being like coming from that dorm room, obviously, I mean, I don't know how much of a vision you had as far as like how far you'd be looking to push this, but what would your advice be to somebody who's in a similar situation?

You know, just picked up an instrument, writing some songs mainly for themselves, not really doing anything with them yet.

What's your advice?

Looking back on, you know, how far.

You'Ve come since then and just probably everyone says this, but just don't overthink it and just put it out.

Like, had I sat there a little bit too long before posting a video online, I probably wouldn't have started.

Like, especially in the very beginning when I was feeling very vulnerable with like my emotions and I hadn't.

Like I said, I kind of lost my vocal range for many, many years.

And yeah, I'm horrible, to be honest.

I can imagine.

Yes, it was brutal.

So yeah, I think had I sat there with it and thought a little bit too long about posting a first clip on, on Instagram or.

Yeah, I think I posted a story first and I kind of just like, I just did it.

I didn't sit for a minute.

Yeah, I think had I not done that, I probably wouldn't be doing it today.

So big advice.

Yeah.

If you have something, just, just, just post it and you know what it is, what it is.

If there's feedback that's not so good, you know, maybe you learn from it and response is good.

It gives you a kind of a push to keep going, but regardless, just, yeah, do it, keep going.

That's it.

That's it.

Yeah.

It's like you said earlier about like, it's never going to be perfect.

What's the thing for that?

Like my first song wasn't Perfect.

And my second.

And every time I release, I learned something and try to improve on it.

So, yeah, trust the process.

I guess that's just what it comes down to, right?

Yeah, absolutely.

And yourself.

That's a big one.

That's all that matters.

That's all.

Yeah, yeah.

Your people are going to always have an opinion, no matter what.

Lean to one side or the other.

I mean, you could be delusional when you know someone's saying you're amazing and you're just not good at that thing.

Exactly.

But the same goes on the flip side.

So you got to really believe in what you do.

And, yeah.

Fact is, maybe you're not amazing.

You know, I. Yeah.

None of us were great when we first picked up an instrument.

Absolutely.

That's just a part of the process.

So it's not your time to be amazing.

It takes a little bit.

A lot of work.

Work.

It takes a lot of work.

Yeah.

A lot of work.

Absolutely.

I ask you one more kind of similar question, hopefully to help some people listening and then let people know where to find you and give some information on all that good stuff.

But what's some advice you have?

Or, like, how do you stay motivated?

Because I know there's a lot of times, like, when you look back, the distance from picking up a guitar, dorm room, practicing, writing songs to where you are just seems like a flash when you talk about it.

But how do you stay.

How did you stay motivated?

And do you stay motivated currently when things are moving slower than you would want them to?

I think my biggest thing, and this is something that's changed for me, like, in personal life as well.

Just going through some certain things kind of made me realize, like, mindset is huge.

And I think it's like, when I started, I don't want to think like, you know, I would like to be a singer.

I want to be a singer one day.

I. I need to do this so I can sing.

If you're releasing music, if you're making music, you are a singer.

So I think just kind of thinking that, like, I'm doing it right now.

Yeah, maybe it's at a smaller scale, but it's the same thing.

Like, whether I have a thousand or a hundred thousand streams on a song or, you know, 10 million, everyone's doing the same thing.

So I kind of just try to think, like, yeah, maybe it is a little bit delusional.

But when I first started, I'm like, you know, I'm a musician now.

I'm an artist.

Like, this is what I It's not like I'm trying to.

Yeah, yeah.

You know, Yes, I am trying to.

But yeah, like, if you're doing it, you're already there.

You're already a success just from making music.

So I think if you think that way, you don't need motivation to keep going.

It's kind of just like, you know, this is what I do.

If you enjoy it enough, let's keep going.

Yeah.

That's huge advice, man.

That's.

That's really.

It's like it comes down to identity.

Yeah.

You decide to be that thing.

There was always.

I know.

I've heard this thing with people who are smokers.

Yes.

It's like one of the hacks to quit is to stop calling yourself a smoker.

Like you're identifying with the thing.

So it works on the opposite too.

Totally agree.

Now I'm an athlete, so now I treat my body like an athlete.

What I see myself in that way.

I'm just drinking more water.

Small things.

Yeah.

Eventually you build.

It becomes so.

Totally believe in that.

I had some friends, like, trying to quit vaping and stuff like that.

You know when people would ask, like, do you smoke?

Do you vape?

They'd be like, oh, like I'm trying to quit or I used to.

I, I said, you stop that.

Just say, I know.

I don't, I don't.

It is.

Yeah.

I'm an artist, I'm an actor.

All connected, right?

Yeah.

Yeah.

Your identity, your brain's defining yourself by actions that you don't even want to.

Exactly.

Yeah.

That's huge, man.

I could talk about that all day.

That's one of my favorite things right there is this.

But the fact that, I mean, you've realized that about yourself and you can share it with other people, I think that's, that's life changing for a lot of people because it seems so obvious, but it's not.

It's not to a lot of people.

So thanks for sharing that, man.

Definitely hard.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Thank you.

Give some people.

Yeah.

I'm on every social media platform, so Instagram, YouTube, TikTok, all of that everywhere.

Music wise as well.

All just under Tate Yap.

I have a lot of music coming.

I actually have quite a backlog right now, so there'll be more music in the next year than I put out before, so stay tuned for that.

If you're in the Toronto area, I'll probably have some shows and stuff here, but yeah, yeah, that's.

That's pretty much it.

Acting wise.

There's a couple, couple things coming out.

So if you're interested in that kind of stuff as well, there'll be some news there too soon.

So.

Yeah, Sam.