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You want to take a few notes as you listen to this episode with Chris Hicks, operations Manager for Midwest Basketball Club and the Event Director for Bleacher Prospects.

Hello and welcome to the Hoop Heads Podcast.

It's Mike Cleansing here without my co host Jason Sunkel tonight, but I am pleased to be joined by Chris Hicks from Midwest Basketball Club and Bleacher prospects.

Chris, welcome to the hoop heads pod.

Oh, thanks.

Appreciate you guys having me on.

Excited to have you on.

Looking forward to diving into all the interesting things that you've been able to do throughout your basketball life.

Let's start by going back in time to when you were a kid.

Tell me a little bit about some of your first experiences with the game of basketball.

What do you remember about those early years with the game?

Sure.

Just grew up in West Virginia, I mean, truly in the mountains of West Virginia, and sports was a big part of my life.

We didn't have a lot to.

To do other than sports in the area that, that I grew up in.

So, you know, football, basketball, baseball, all a huge part of, of who I was growing up.

Basketball specifically was my love.

It was probably the sport I was the best at, you know, and carried it all the way from, you know, middle school all the way up to high school and so fell in love with the game, fell in good love with the process.

Watched a lot of basketball, you know, on TV and would go out in the driveway and try to replicate whatever it was that you saw.

Didn't have the advantages of video and recording and all of that.

So you tried to remember the best you could and carry it out into the driveway and hopefully you see it on some kind of replay or something to be able to go back and replicate it.

But I think I grew up in probably one of the best eras of basketball as well.

I mean, you know, the 80s and the 90s I felt were just incredible.

The league was growing, you know, all the big names that kind of have really catapulted the, the NBA, if you will, with, you know, Michael Jordan and Magic Johnson and Larry Bird and all of those guys.

And you know, to me, it was just an incredible time to grow up and be connected to the game.

Who were your teams and players as a kid?

Who are the teams that you followed, the players that you looked up to the most?

Well, huge Michael Jordan fan, which I think most every kid at that, that time was.

Yep, absolutely.

I've got him right over my shoulder and assigned an assigned poster over here.

So every.

Everybody migrated to him.

Just, you'd be like, Mike.

I mean, he was on every commercial and every cereal box and all of the other things that were associated with basketball.

But as far as, like, other players that really enjoyed watching.

Nat, I'm 6:2, and at the time that I grew up, I mean, six two was a pretty large person.

It was pretty rare that you saw a six, six kid or taller.

And so I played point guard on the offensive side and center on the defensive side.

So, you know, players like Akeem Olajuwon and Bill, Bill Cartwright and all of those guys intrigued me just because of, you know, that being a different skill set than what I had on the offensive side and what I needed to do defensively in order to be able to, you know, match up on a night to night basis.

And gosh, you know, and when I said, I mean, you can go back to the Birds, go back to the Johnsons, you know, Magic Johnson, all of those players, Charles Barkley, I mean, all of those guys brought something different to the game that I just thought was, was remarkable.

And I didn't try to, you know, tailor my game to any one specific player, but I certainly took, you know, the thoughts, for example, Barkley and chasing rebounds and how hard he went after that side of the game and Elijah won and you know, really trying to be a strong defensive presence for his team, although he was a good offensive player as well.

And then just Jordan, I mean, trying to get out in the driveway and dunk the basketball like him.

What's funny is, is that growing up, I love Jordan.

And my first guy that I fell in love with as a player, so I'm born in 1970 and I loved Dr. J.

He was the first guy that, that I, that I really started to follow.

And of course those are two guys that play above the rim, which was not something that I was capable of doing in my time as a player.

So I found myself always gravitating in terms of the players that I liked, sort of to a player archetype that I myself could never be.

I grew up, for whatever reason, I hated Larry Bird and the Celtics when I was a kid, where if I look back on it now, it's probably being a little bit more ground bound.

That probably would have been a better guy to follow and want to try to emulate.

But instead I, I wanted to be Dr. J or Michael Jordan or whatever the case may be.

So it's kind of interesting how again, when you're a kid where your fandom goes and just who you like to follow and, and the types of players that you, you try to emulate and be a part of.

And I know for me, like I said, I, I was, I don't know if unrealistic, but just again, the guys that I liked were guys that maybe could do things that I was not able to do or guys that did things that I knew I would never be capable of.

Doing.

So that's the NBA.

How about on the college side?

Did you have any college teams or players at that time?

Obviously, college basketball has changed tremendously since the 80s and 90s.

When you were growing.

When you were growing up.

When I was growing up, and now with the one and done and nil and all the things, and I'm sure we'll get into this when we talk.

A little bit more a little later.

About the AAU and the recruiting side of it.

But just from your perspective, was there any college teams or players that you really liked at that time?

Yeah.

Kentucky fan.

I mean, where I grew up at, the closest college to us was actually in Kentucky.

And so grew up.

It was, you know, pretty consistent on tv, had the availability to watch.

West Virginia, had a great football program at that time.

Nothing really on the basketball side, you know, and then specifically when Rick Pitino came in to Kentucky, to me, it was just such an incredible era of basketball.

The fluidity of play, the style of play, the speed of play, just absolutely, you know, was amazing, in my opinion, was a really great error of Kentucky basketball.

And, you know, players, Jamal Mashburn, Pelfrey, I mean, all of those guys had an impact, some way or another, on how I viewed the game and what I thought about the game and what I thought good looked like.

And so, you know, it was fun having the base that I had with the groups of teams that I followed.

And then, you know, specifically, even as you get into adulthood and you look back on all of those players, I mean, we all say it, you know, there'll never be another Michael Jordan.

Right.

I thought that Jamal Mashburn at Kentucky was the epitome of what a player should look like coming into college and how they represent their team.

And then, you know, what the overall outcome for that player should be as they transition into the NBA game.

I just thought he was the pillar, if you will, for what a good college basketball player look like.

Yeah, it's kind of crazy that all those guys, Mashburn, Jimmy Jackson and Jason Kidd all ended up.

All ended up on the Dallas Mavericks, and that somehow those three guys as great of certainly college players, in the case of Mashburn and Jimmy Jackson, who were also very good pros and for whatever reason didn't quite, I think, live up to what people maybe thought they would be in college.

But the fact that those guys ended up on the same team and kind of never put it all together is one of the great mysteries to me in the game of basketball.

Because, like you said, those Three guys.

You know, Mashburn at Kentucky was incredible.

Jimmy Jackson, I saw him when he was in 10th grade.

Me and my dad went to a game in Illyria.

They were playing against Illyria High School.

And of course at that time there's no Internet, no YouTube, no anything.

And so we had just heard, hey, there's this kid that plays for Toledo McCumber that is really good, let's go see him play.

And of course you go out there and we had no idea what he looks like and comes out for warm ups and immediately like, yeah, that's him, he's in 10th grade.

He looks like he could be in the NBA with his body.

So yeah, it's just again, the era of college basketball back in the day, 80s and 90s was just a very, very unique.

I think we, if you were a college basketball fat fan at that time, you don't know how good, how good you had it.

Being a fan of, of the college game back then and today it's just different the way that again, players are in and out in teams and they're going to have to get it sorted out and we'll talk about that here in a little bit.

So as you're going through being a player at the high school level, is there a thought that hey, at some point I want to stay involved in the game when I get to adulthood?

Were you thinking at all, hey, maybe I want to get into coaching?

Was there some other path through the game that you thought maybe you saw for yourself?

Obviously at the time when you're growing up, AU's not nearly at the level where it is now.

So that really necessarily wasn't a viable path.

And just give me an idea of what you were thinking about in terms of your relationship to the game as you went through college and then on into early adulthood.

I mean, I was super fortunate, had incredible relationships with my coaches.

So, you know, I had those opportunities to talk about, you know, how they impact the game and, and what they see potential, if you will, for players or persons and in future.

Right.

How can you, how can you apply what you're learning here and, and be able to cascade it forward?

While I was playing in high school, I didn't necessarily think about it, but you know, once I got out of high school, out into the real world, I played real high level sports, if you will, for, you know, I played on a travel softball team that was fully sponsored, played on a 3, 3 on 3 basketball group that was fully sponsored.

So I had an opportunity to learn, if you will, just A little bit different, differently, on how some of those things come together, even to the point of how our players recruited to those programs.

And that piqued my interest at that time.

I felt like I was a good evaluator of talent, evaluator of players.

You know, I was often brought into discussions as we were having tryouts, which players should we look at?

Which ones do we think fit, both in terms of skill and.

And culture?

And that kind of probably started it at that point.

Not long after that, we had our first daughter and a couple years later, of course, heavily engaged in, you know, the youth, the sports programs all the way up to her high school program, and then kind of really took that and catapulted it back into the basketball world.

So, you know, when she was 6 or 7, starting over in basketball and softball, I was already asking questions to the college coaches on how does recruiting work, what does this look like as kids are moving up through what's the most important factors?

And, and she, she was a softball player, and I followed that pathway with her with college recruiting and coaches and introductions and coaching the team, and then basically took everything that I learned there and then pushed it over into the basketball world.

What's your best piece of advice for a youth sports parent who has a kid who's 6 or 7 years old, regardless of sport, who's heading into that world for the first time?

If you could boil it down and give them your most valuable piece of advice, what would it be?

I mean, the very first thing, it's great.

100%.

The academic portion is more important than any of the other pieces athletically.

I think in today's world, college coaches certainly look at that in grades as a.

It's an indictment on character.

At the end of the day, those kids that are performing well in the classroom typically are high character, high quality kids that come from a great background support.

Um, and for me, that was one of the very first things that the, the very first college coach that I talked to, he said, if you want to focus the right way with your kid, focus them on the academics and let it.

The other one, the other one is, is don't push.

I mean, at the end of the day, your child needs to love the game.

And you know, as a parent, you, you certainly want your.

Your child to do well, but sometimes that comes with failure.

And you got to allow kids to go through the failure, go through the hurdles themselves, not intervene, not, you know, influence that way, but allow them to, you know, to, to feed off of both the successes and Failures and figure out their own path.

Too often I see, you know, today you'll, you'll read or hear about, you know, the number one ranked fourth grader, fifth grader, sixth grader.

Everything changes at puberty.

And so, you know, I would rather have a kid personally that developed late and went through a lot of adversity getting to where they were trying to get to, than to have that kid that was always successful.

And whatever happened that, you know, puberty, they, they stopped growing and now all of a sudden they're trying to figure out how to deal with adversity as a much older player that's never, you know, dealt with it.

In a lot of cases, they don't know how to go through it.

So allow them to develop at the pace that fits the need and their need and to the skills that they have and stay out of the way.

I mean, that's what I would say.

I mean, certainly encourage, but allow them to fall in love with the game and all the other pieces will come into play.

Great advice, and I think it's one that I've shared with parents a lot about the development in terms of getting to puberty and not knowing who's going to be fast, who's going to be tall, who's going to be short, who's going to be strong, who's going to have this body type versus that body type.

And like you said, you don't really know any of that until a kid reaches their, again, not necessarily physical maturity, but starts to change physically.

And I think that's where in a lot of cases, especially in basketball, right.

Oftentimes we do a disservice to kids who are younger because we get the kid who's a little bit bigger and put them on the block and don't let them ever dribble the ball.

And then you might have another kid who starts out and is slow and a little uncoordinated and then grows into their body and suddenly now they're capable of doing more.

But we've held them back because of their perceived shortcomings when they're younger.

And so I do think that there's a, a big piece of that, that for parents, especially to make sure that you get your kids involved again, this is any sport, right in, in a position where with a program, with a coach who tries to develop the complete athlete and doesn't try to pigeonhole them super early.

And then the other thing that you said that I think is really, really good advice is to make sure that the amount that you're pushing your kid as a parent is conducive to what your kid wants.

I always say that it should be kid driven as opposed to parent driven.

Because again, ultimately, in my experience, and I'm sure in yours too, Chris, the kids who have had the most success ultimately are the kids who find that drive within themselves to want to get better, to explore the game, continue to improve and, and get better.

And that's not to say that as parents, we don't have to provide the kids with opportunities, especially when they're younger and they can't drive and they can't get to places.

Certainly a parent plays a big role in providing opportunity, but we have to be really careful in terms of how much do we push versus, again, the kid taking that initiative on their own.

And I know for me, and I don't know if you found this at all with your daughter, but I know for me there are times that even though I know that that is the best route to take, that there were and our times where I still feel like, man, am I pushing enough or should I push just a little bit more?

And even though I know better and I still, ultimately I end up taking a step back, but I still have that conversation with myself sometimes in my mind, it's hard to follow that advice, even though I know it's the right advice.

And I think parents out there who maybe don't have as much experience as maybe you did or as much experience as I have sometimes fall into that trap.

And so I don't know if you ever found sort of that internal fight within your mind with your daughter in terms of how much do I push and how much do I lay back.

No, absolutely.

And we, we were fortunate in the part that we really had two only kids is the way that it worked.

Their kids have 10 years difference between them.

So my daughter, a big time softball player, internally motivated, you know, specifically as she moved into 8th, 9th, 10th and on.

And for her, I mean, she loved it and she wanted to be on the field.

It was, it was, the game was easy for her.

She looked for different ways to have an advantage and she wanted influence and what those things were.

She would come to you readily and ask the question, you know, how can I improve in X and be willing to sit down and watch video and, and go through the whole, you know, the whole nine yards in order to have some different impact when she went back on, on the field, you know, and what we did with her early on is, you know, kids or parents, you know, they wanted the best shortstop or they wanted the best second baseman.

And those positions were more meaningful right in the game.

And you know, I was different than that.

I wanted a utility player.

I wanted a player that could play short, that could play second, that could go into the outfield, that could pitch or play first base.

And so, you know, our pathway was entirely different with her and we really created, I mean, in my opinion, just such a well rounded player that she fit a need.

No matter which team that she was on, they always had a place for her to be able to play.

In Kentucky, and we lived in Kentucky for a little while.

In Kentucky you can play high school sports at any age, right?

So she's a starting shortstop as a sixth grader for the high school and the next year she's playing second base and the next year she's a third and then she's in the outfield and then she's pitching.

So each year was different for her and she enjoyed that, you know, but learning each one of those is difficult.

It's challenging with my son, basketball kid, out of the gate.

Same approach, really focused on, you know, different skills.

He was one of the taller kids growing up and, you know, quickly hit, you know, the six foot mark by the time that he was in the seventh grade, ultimately ended up going to the 6 foot 2 range and, and you know, was projected to be taller than that.

But it was the same approach with him.

How can we provide different, you know, opportunities for you to develop different skills and play in different positions and, and impact your team in a different way, no matter what the need of the team was.

And, you know, what we tried to create was selfless players that were willing to sacrifice pieces and parts of what they brought to, you know, their skill sets in order to contribute to the overall value of the team.

Unfortunately, he, he's dealt with injury after injury after injury since his freshman year.

Things certainly didn't turn out for him the way that he was projected to turn out.

But man, what a great kid that it's created.

I mean, that adversity and challenges, the things that he's been through, the things that he's had to learn and deal with, has just probably been different than what most kids have to deal with.

But it's been fun watching both of their, you know, watching both of their pathways and, and how, and they're very different as far as personalities, but both of them ended up being very successful and you know, both deciding late on that that, you know, my daughter was recruited by many colleges and chose at the end of the day to do an academic ride rather than playing college.

Heartbreaking for a dad, especially after we've traveled the entire country together playing softball.

But, you know, I was really looking at my son Josh and thinking, okay, he's going to have that opportunity.

And then ultimately it just derailed him with all of the injuries, and he didn't quite make it to where he wanted to make it to, but is extremely grateful for those experiences and has had a ton of joy doing it, but certainly is ready to.

To end this basketball career at this point.

Listen, those two stories, Chris, that you just told about your kids sort of epitomize what I think if you could take that and encapsulate that story, are those two stories of each one of your kids and share that with parents who are, again, just entering the youth sports space.

And I heard you say a couple things that stood out for me.

One was that you taught your kids how to be selfless and to be a part of a team, which, when you talk to people, even though it doesn't always come out this way, people often say that that's what they want, right?

They want their kid to be a part of something bigger than themselves, an important part of why people get involved in sports.

And yet oftentimes we don't see them acting that out on the sidelines as parents.

And then the second part is just, you talked about your daughter ended up choosing an academic route and your son being able to develop the resilience to come through that.

Some of the challenges that he faced with injury and just his path and how it was different, maybe, than what he might have expected or what you might have expected.

And.

And ultimately, I think that sometimes there's.

It's easy to lose sight, especially as a parent, it's easy to lose sight of what are the real reasons why I have my kids playing youth sports.

And I've been through this with my oldest daughter, who's now a senior in college.

She stopped playing basketball when she was in ninth grade, played a couple more years of tennis, but at some point she came to me and said, just don't like basketball anymore.

It's not fun.

Practice comes around, I don't really want to be there.

And so you have the conversation, well, then shouldn't be there, right?

It's not fun.

Then what are we doing?

Let's find another activity that you're going to enjoy and get something out of.

And then I have another daughter who's in 10th grade who's currently playing, and my son's at Ohio Wesleyan is a sophomore.

And all throughout their careers, there's been things that have gone well.

There's been things that maybe haven't gone so well.

And your story of resilience with your son, not the same in terms of injury causing that adversity, but certainly adversity that's gone on in their careers, that you have conversations with them, you hope that what sports does is it teaches them the value of resilience.

It teaches the value of hard work.

So that when the ball stops bouncing, which is going to for every kid, at some point, no matter even for LeBron here, at.

some point, the ball is going to stop bouncing.

And what are you going to be able to do with your life after that?

And what you hope as a parent is that what they've learned through sports guides them into the rest of their life.

And I think that's what happened for me.

That's what is happening for your kids.

I think it's what's going to happen for my kids.

And ultimately, that's where the value in youth sports lies.

And I think sometimes we get caught up in all the other stuff that we see on social media and the comparisons and all this, and it's important sometimes to take a step back, whether it's as a parent or as a coach, and just remember that again, there's more to life than just a win or a loss or did I make the basket or did I get a hit in this clutch moment, all that stuff sort of eventually fades away.

And it's what kind of person do you develop as a result of your process of going through and in your development in sports?

And I think that's what.

That's what came through for me from, from your story of.

Of talking about your kids.

So tell me a little bit about your then gateway into sort of the basketball world that you're in now.

How did that opportunity come to you?

What were the steps that led you into kind of the pro.

The place where you are now?

So when we were in, when we moved into Kentucky and in the element, my son was in the elementary school at that time, and I got involved in their youth program at the school level and started coaching there.

I coached three years for the Pulaski County Youth League and then got transferred to Ohio directly after and came into the school system here.

We're in Springboro, Ohio.

Came into the school system here and picked up youth coaching again with the Dayton Metro League at the school level.

And then, you know, got involved a little bit at the.

A You seen with a couple different programs and then ultimately ended up landing at Midwest Basketball Club Mid Ohio Pumas.

When my son was in the eighth grade, the Mid Ohio Pumas were expanding into the Cincinnati and Dayton area.

And an acquaintance made a connection with the person that was selected to be the director for the program, Dustin Kavanaugh.

And so Dustin and I made a connection, hit it off immediately and then, you know, I helped him expand the brand here.

We started out, you know, four years ago, maybe five years ago, started out with three teams at the ninth grade level and two at the 10th grade level.

The very next year, Midwest Basketball Club and Mid Ohio Pumas ended up joining the operated under the Midwest Basketball Club umbrella for the entire organization.

Dustin asked me to take a larger role at that time as an operations leader for the, for the organization and for that, I mean it was, you know, overseeing, recruiting both in terms of players into the organization, coaches as well, development, registrations, answering questions, really, you know, the logistics piece of getting players into the program and settled into teams.

And then from that the logistics of where will teams play and how we support them, you know, as they're out and about playing.

And then this really happened.

Happenstance.

I really didn't plan to coach again.

I'd given that up several years ago.

My son's team in Midwest Basketball Club just within, you know, probably two weeks to go before the season kicked off.

The coach that was going to coach the team ended up running into an issue and wasn't able to coach.

Dustin approached me and he said, hey, there's nobody that knows these kids better.

There's nobody that knows the college coaches better.

I'm going to need you to step in here and run this team.

And so for me, I mean I wrote it down, I mean I wrote it down as the final chapter.

And it was Josh and my final chapter together, One final season to go out and, and play basketball.

And so I coached that group this past year, had a phenomenal season with them.

We finished second on the grassroots basketball league circuit.

I've got six of eight kids from that team that have varying levels of college opportunities at the next level and just really enjoyed it so much that I decided to stay on coaching this year and I'll coach two 17 year teams this coming year, both going to the mayor circuit.

And so, man, just a, you know, a really whirlwind over the last five years of starting out with just a couple of teams and you know, now we build it in.

We've got, I don't know, 39 plus teams in the Cincinnati, Dayton area, teams at every level, kids that can play at every, you know, at every level at, you know, at the college, when they transfer to college.

It's been phenomenal.

Building it, I think, from a program, name brand, what we do, how we operate.

I just.

I'm really in love with what we do, and it's just such a great, in my opinion, honor to be a part of, you know, a part of that program and having the advantages that we have of helping kids make it to the next level.

All right, before we dive into the kids and your coaching, one of the things that you mentioned was as you're growing the organization, and I think this is a challenge.

Whenever I talk to somebody who has a basketball business, a youth club, training, whatever it might be, there's always the challenge of finding great coaches and people who can do things in the way that the founders, the directors of the organizations want things done.

So can you talk a little bit about your process for finding, slash recruiting coaches and then training them, helping them along the way so that there is a unified philosophy or way of doing things that you guys do with Midwest?

Yeah, so.

So very few dad coaches in the program.

And really, by design, I mean, you know, at the end of the day, we want.

We want players to have the best overall experience that they can have.

And, you know, even for me, I. I had made a connection for my.

My own son coming up through his middle school years.

It was probably best for me to not coach him.

Just a relationship, an opportunity to be dad rather than coach, in my opinion, is a much more rewarding role than being coach.

I think as kids mature, you know, specifically for him, as he, you know, matured into his senior year, it's a lot easier, you know, those criticisms, if you will, from a coach or a dad don't seem to be as direct or as impactful in a lot of cases.

They recognize that, you know, that feedback is meant as care and love, and it's meant to guide and direct, not necessarily tear down.

But we do have some dad coaches, but for the most part, we target active coaches that are assistant coaches at.

At every level of school.

We just, you know, from.

From a building a brand perspective, we know that.

That a lot of those, Most every assistant coach aspires to be a head coach at some point.

This gives them an experience to be able to run their own team, you know, manage the workout specifically, you know, however they see fit, interact with parents and all of those things and skills that you need to build when and if the time comes that you have an opportunity to serve as a, you know, a high school head coach or even a college head coach.

So we are very specific on targeting those type of, of, of coaches.

And outside of that, I mean, we're looking for high level players as well.

I mean, if you came from a, a high level background, potentially played in college, and you know, maybe, maybe you're not coaching at the high school or at any school level, you almost certainly target them as well.

And you know, we're really focused on all of the right things, you know, the program, the character, who's going to represent the brand appropriately.

We do a lot in terms of training and education.

We all go through, you know, different levels of certification from a coaching perspective.

But, you know, those coaches know that they can reach out to any of us that are in the leadership role and ask questions and ask for input.

There's, there's never, there's never anything that's off limits.

I think that, that there's a trust, trust and influence through the organization where people have confidence that, you know, if they come to you with an issue, that you're going to genuinely help them resolve the issue and help them get things back on track.

Um, but we really, you know, we really want the next level or the next phase of up and comers.

And we've seen it.

I mean, we've graduated so many coaches from the AAU level that were once assistant coaches that are now super successful high school basketball coaches, you know, and we feel like we had a part in it, you know, certainly not all of it, but we definitely played a part in their ability to be able to take that next step and be comfortable in it and lead their own programs once they get there.

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What are some personal characteristics of a great AAU coach?

Obviously there's some basketball things and everybody has a different philosophy in terms of how they teach or what style of basketball they want to play.

But when you're looking at somebody as a potential coach for your club, what are the personal characteristics that in your mind are going to allow them to have success in that role as an.

AAU coach for Midwest, for us, I mean it's 100% connections and I mean in genuine connections that can this person form a relationship with the players that players families that they're responsible for.

I mean to me that's, that's the trust factor that, that comes into play.

And you know, for me personally as a, as a, as a coach, I have a great connection to all my players.

I know, you know, I watch their stats, I watch their games, I go on the huddle and, and look for different things that's happening in their high school and, and not to influence or to ask in, you know, to, to try to provide any feedback but just to see how they're doing, to check up on them, you know, physically and how are you feeling, how is the game going?

What are the things that you're struggling with?

What are the things that, that you feel that you can improve, that, you know, how's, how's everything around them interacting that's allowing them to be their most successful but that, you know, the genuine connection, knowing the players, the ones that, that truly you can make it about you as a coach.

I mean I've seen plenty do that, that this is about my opportunity and, and my potential, you know, flight upwards or opportunity to move into a different role or you can make it about the kids and to me the most successful ones make it about the kids and then ultimately you're the recipient of success.

You should be successful as a result of their success.

But you know, certainly the skill sets, I mean we're looking for, for high character, knowledgeable coaches that's played the game at a high level that knows how to influence kids in the right way.

There's right and wrong ways to do that.

I mean, you know, how you say it, how you present things is extremely important.

But really we want people that are willing to pour into that kid and see each one of those kids potential and are really interested in helping them grow, to maximize whatever that is, whatever that that footprint would be for them.

How much do you try to build a connection with a player's high school coach?

I know in some cases high school coaches are open to that relationship and sort of being collaborative in terms, in terms of a player's development.

In other cases, maybe that's not so much the standard, but from your perspective, the connection between the AAU coach and program and the high school coach and program.

In an ideal world, what would that look like to you?

Yeah, to me, it really should be hand in hand.

I, I think the support factors on both sides, the game's different.

I mean, it's very different in some cases, but the support factor on both sides, in my opinion, is extremely important.

I'm, I'm fortunate in a lot of cases.

I have high school coaches that recommend their players to me, and so it makes it really easy that, that, you know, they have a high degree of confidence and, and that player and their family.

So I already know what I'm getting.

Even if I didn't know who that kid was, in a lot of cases, I know what they run, the type of offense or defense that they run.

And so, you know, if they're sending them to me, then they see that there's things that I'm doing that can add value back to them, their program.

And I have, I've seen it on both sides.

I've seen high school coaches that, you know, readily accept and want to hear feedback on their players and how they're doing and how they're contributing, what their opportunities are for, for improvement.

And I've seen the other side, we're, you know, completely hands off that, that they don't connect to the AAU program scene at all.

They don't want to even affiliate with that side.

And so, you know, for us, we always recognize those barriers and we always, you know, certainly make sure that we don't overstep those.

But in my opinion, if players, if the players are going to be their most successful, those two entities working hand in hand, and I would throw in another piece.

I mean, if a player has an individual skills trainer, that person being involved with the three entities really, in my opinion, catapult, that's kids opportunity to levels that, you know, maybe most people don't have the opportunity to get to.

I agree with you there, Chris.

I think that the ability to collaborate amongst all the people who have a hand in the development of the player, so AAU coach and program, high school coach and program, and then individual skills trainer, if you can get all three of those groups on the same page and Giving the player maybe not the exact same, but certainly a similar message in terms of strengths, weaknesses, what they have to work on, how they fit into each particular one of those spaces.

I do think that you're going to end up in a better place for the kid.

So we talked a little bit about your recruitment and getting of coaches.

Let's talk a little bit about players.

You mentioned that some of what you do is talk to high school coaches and build those relationships.

And then as a result of that and your success, high school coaches start to funnel players to your program and recommend them to you.

But in terms of filling out roster space and the growth that you talked about, going from four teams to the high 30s in terms of number of teams, obviously there's some recruiting that you have to do.

So tell me a little bit about that process, how you guys go about filling rosters and continuing to grow your club.

Well, I think past success plays a huge piece in that.

And you know, so with Midwest basketball club, our three SSB program, I mean, certainly everyone recognizes that as kind of the pinnacle of high school basketball in addition to EYBL and other.

So for us, I mean, you know, it's really the, we're at the grassroots to college pipeline stuff.

It's, it's really within Ohio and the entire Midwest scene.

You know, what we're doing, we believe, is super impactful for players that are willing to do the work and chase the opportunities.

And so, you know, highlighting past success is keeping those out in front of the community through social media, assuring that they recognize the brand, the benefits of being a part of the brand.

I just, you know, to me, the opportunities that we offer, I think most people recognize, allows, you know, players to move up to a next level.

And so, you know, our entire focus is, you know, once you get into our system and more so, you know, when you're coming in as a freshman is really when we talked a little bit about puberty and some of the other things, right, the growth spurts, I mean, that's really when we're starting to really zero in on those players and promote.

And so people see that out in the community, they recognize when they go to tournaments, they play against our teams, the skill levels that of the teams that we have.

So organically we get some growth, but we have a lot of social media push.

And you know, there's, there's the, you know, the Midwest side of the program is also influenced by Bleacher prospect.

And you know, we haven't talked about that, but, you know, the Bleacher Prospect side that I'm engaged in.

You know, it's really.

Our entire mission is really simple.

We're creating opportunities for high school players, AAU players in the Midwest to get in front of college coaches.

And you know, we are very focused on Ohio, Kentucky, Indiana, Michigan, West Virginia and really anything that touches that.

In order to, you know, promote and highlight kids and you know, we host top tier exposure events.

You know, as you're thinking, I mean, it's a truly elite prospect.

Camps and showcase tournaments.

We've partnered with groups like bleacher republic and ohiobasketball.com had big weekends in Cincinnati, you know, just this past year, this past year, past fall, we held a camp there.

We had over a camp and a tournament.

We had over 50 college coaches from Ohio, Kentucky, Indiana, Tennessee, West Virginia, Florida, Michigan, Pennsylvania.

We truly became the talk of the community that, you know, people took the brand of Midwest basketball club coupled on the exposure piece of Bleacher Prospect and the two pieces are extremely powerful together.

And so we've really become in, in my opinion, specifically in the northern Kentucky and Southern Ohio area, we've become the extension, the arm for college coaches throughout, you know, all of the states that touch us, the connection point, you know, everything from the camps to, you know, we have free recruiting databases where all of the players that come through our programs and, or submit, you know, a profile to us, we keep them in our database.

That database is free to college coaches.

They can go out at any point in time, pull up a player's profile, all of their measurements, GPAs, highlights, stats, pages.

They can pull up anything and evaluate a player without having to go see that player.

And so we just continue to build on those things.

You know, Dustin and I are, Dustin being also, you know, in the Midwest basketball program.

He and I are one third partner each and the other entity.

And, and we just continue to, to promote both sides and influence both programs through one another or through each other and just continue to build both brands that, you know, so, you know, my projection for, for Bleacher Prospect, that whole banner, it's.

I believe it's going to bridge a gap that we see in our area for kids to get college scholarships.

I would suggest over the last probably two and a half years, we've helped a hundred kids.

I just had a dad a couple weeks ago, you know, reach out.

He's like, man, he said, you help my kid.

And we had very limited video.

I have no idea how you did, did it.

And you know, there's always somebody out there looking For a player you just got to know.

And I think we do.

We know the players in our community, we know the players that are coming through our camps, we know the players that are in our program.

And we make it a genuine responsibility to know those players, to be able to represent them.

At any point in time that, you know, a college coach picks up a phone and says, hey, I need a player.

This is what I'm looking for in skill sets.

Who do you have?

And I don't think there's better people to call than us to be able to do that.

So how did the idea of putting those two concepts together of the AAU basketball Club Midwest with bleacher prospects, where does the idea of that synergy come together and how do you and Dustin get involved in that?

So.

So Bleacher Republic is a tournament side that, that really filtered off of Midwest Basketball Club as well.

I'm not a part of the Bleacher Republic platform.

However, the third partner, Matt Morgan, is.

And you know, Matt, we had again, connections through the organization of doing different things together.

And Matt approached Dustin and I about the exposure side of the business.

Bleacher Republic was asking for that as well.

They run extremely high level tournaments throughout the Midwest and they really didn't have anybody out there promoting that other than themselves.

And so they, they approached Matt and asked the question, you know, how can we get better exposure on all of our programs and, you know, assure that we're continuing to build our brand in the community?

And so, you know, Matt was the spearhead that kind of kicked it off, pulled us and I into it.

And then, you know, we started the brand Bleacher Prospect.

It's grown.

I mean, it, you know, three years ago we were doing, you know, exposure camps and articles and, and we've grown.

I mean, we're, you know, this.

Just this year we were partnering.

Last year we partnered with Bleacher Republic for the Bleacher Nationals.

That's where we had all of the college coaches come in for that weekend.

It was a spectacle.

It was such an incredible sight at Spooky Nook in Hamilton, Ohio, to look up on the platform overhead and see college coach after college coach after college coach looking down on all of the floors and watching all of the players.

If you were a player in that event 100%, you had more exposure in that day than probably most kids get in their entire high school, you know, career, playing career.

And so we did that with Bleacher nationals.

We've had OhioBasketball.com come to us this year, they run the E40 circuit for the Midwest region and partnered with NY2LA.

They've asked us to tag on an exposure camp to them in late May and attach it to one of their tournaments.

So people are starting to recognize that we can bring all of the pieces together around the table and put everybody in the same room and talking the same language with.

The ultimate goal, again, is the exposure for the high school player as a potential to go into college.

It's been a whirlwind to get there.

We keep branching off into other little entities and pieces.

There's other things coming that.

That I can't quite talk about, but, you know, we're going to continue to focus on our exposure camps, build continuity within our tournaments, continue to grow some of those pieces.

But again, it's always to have influence at the college level and to be able to promote players coming through, you know, either Midwest or bleacher prospect is what our ultimate goal is.

So we've hit on the one side of the equation, right?

The players, the coaches who are a part of your AAU program.

We've talked about how the events are going to benefit the high school players to get them that exposure, to give them college opportunities.

Now, the second part of this is, how do you build those relationships with college coaches?

How do you build that trust so that when a college coach comes to your event, they know that they're going to be able to see players that could potentially fit and be a part of their program moving forward?

So just talk to me a little bit about how you personally have gone about developing those relationships with college coaches.

What does that look like for you?

Full transparency.

I mean, as we have kids that register for our camps, we keep their profile and we push that out to.

I think We've got roughly 1100 college coaches now in our database that we have direct connections with.

And so we push out our rosters at some interval, typically every two to three weeks.

So they see who's registering and they see the.

Again, all of the stats, they see the measurements, and so they know who's coming.

And I think the next piece of that is, you know, we genuinely want to know about the players that are coming into our camps as well.

And if there's somebody that signs up that we don't know, we do the research.

And so, you know, some of that research may be doing our own, you know, search on social media and going and investigating what that kid potentially may bring to that camp.

We've reached out to kids and had phone conversations, you know, no different than doing a regular interview just to try to understand, you know, what level is this kid at and if they come into our camps, how can we best promote them.

But it's being honest.

I mean, it.

You know, today I had a college, I had Jack Stevens from Wooster.

He reached out to me, he, he cited our database and was specifically looking at 20, 26 kids.

And he said, hey, Chris, walk me down through all of the kids that are on the page that, you know, tell me what you think about them, tell me what you believe that, that they do well, where do you believe that they fit style, you know, how are they doing in high school?

And, you know, I think Jack would tell you, I mean, I, I can walk through most every kid that's on there, go pull up their stats page, know exactly where all of it's at, be able to talk specifically to that player of their character, in most cases their family, and be able to, you know, really promote them, in my opinion, at the level that they deserve.

You know, to me, if these kids are going to put in the effort and do the work at the level that they're doing, they need an advocate in the background that's pushing for them, that has tools and resources and knowledge to be able to potentially impact the rest of their life.

And so we take all of this very serious.

And it's, it's meant to be the purpose.

It's meant to be purposeful.

It's meant to, you know, it's not meant as a standalone, you know, push out a database and allow the coaches to do all of the work.

And probably once a month, once every six weeks or so, we'll send that an updated reminder out to that same group of college coaches reminding them that our database is available, we've added X amount of players and, you know, certainly reach out to us if there's, if there's anything that they need or any player that they need information on or, you know, or, you know, inquire about any of our events.

The same thing.

When we're leading up to events, you know, we promote our events at, at a routine basis.

I mean, it probably almost seems to be monotonous probably for a lot of coaches, you know, as we get within five weeks of it, pretty much every two or three days they're getting reminders about our camp and new registrants and who's coming and, you know, any kind of details, whether it's where they arrive and where they're going to sit and food available and all of those things.

But you know, building what we've built with the transparency that we have that's built into it, and being knowledgeable enough that, you know, when we speak and what they go see on video matches up.

I believe that we've built a trusting relationship that most coaches that.

That have interacted with us, appreciate value and certainly come to us whenever they're.

When they're searching for something that maybe they haven't found themselves.

That trust piece, I think, is the key, right?

They have to be able to, as a college coach, come to you, ask for your opinion, and you have to be able to give them that opinion and have that opinion be accurate multiple times as you build that trust.

So now they can come back to you and ask about this player or that player and trust that your analysis is going to be correct.

So to go along with that in your current role and understanding players the way that it's obvious that you do, how long did it take you or when did you feel comfortable being able to see a player?

And again, I don't know how many times it takes you to see a player before you feel comfortable sort of placing them or saying, hey, this kid's a Division 3 kid, or this kid's Division 2, or here's a place where he would fit.

Just how long did it take you to get comfortable with your own ability to scout, watch a player and then be able to make an analysis of who they are as a high school player, who they potentially could be as a college player, and what level they might eventually fit at?

How long did that take you, and when did you feel comfortable with your ability to do that?

A couple times.

I mean, I definitely want to see a player a couple times and in different settings.

I think seeing them in their AAU setting is one part of the equation.

Certainly seeing them in their high school setting is different.

And sometimes it could be structure that's better on one side or the other, or even a different style of play.

And then how does that translate?

You know, skills are skills.

All of the things that you see, you can tell talent when a kid has it.

If a kid's uber athletic, that automatically plays into it as well.

But I definitely want to see them a couple times, and I think, you know, in most cases, after I've seen them a couple of times, I do know where they fit, and in a lot of cases, even down to maybe a couple of programs that they may fit in better.

It's not abnormal for me to be on a college campus, at a college camp, you know, basically looking over the shoulder of a college coach and watching their practice and some of those things, first of all, just to learn, to continue to grow and develop myself and knowledge of basketball.

But just to see, you know, their players in the existing environment.

What skill sets do those players have?

How can I pick up on what those, what, you know, the coach values?

He can tell me, but if I see it, it's different.

And so, you know, I don't know.

Last winter, not last winter, last fall, I went down to University of Pikeville in Kentucky.

I have a great relationship with Ty Compton down there, and he invited me down.

He said, hey, you know, come down, watch our practice, look at our players.

It'll give you such a, you know, much better advantage on helping me identify who in your system can help me.

And we just love to have you down.

So I went down and spent a couple hours, watched the practice.

It was incredible.

Came away with some great things even for, for me to run this AAU season.

But it was nice being able to make the connection.

And, you know, today Ty reached out to me.

There's a player that, that I've been trying to get him to take, and it looks like that's going to work out.

But it came through me observing and having the opportunity to see what they value, to be able to make the connection back.

And to me, that's it.

I mean, you're going to have to do the due diligence to, you know, not every college.

And this is where I, you know, this is where I caution parents and where I cautions players.

You know, you mentioned early in the podcast around, you know, comparisons and, and to me, it's a thief of joy.

And ultimately, you know, every program doesn't.

They don't need a point guard, not every program needs a small forward.

You know, you're going to get recruited by the program that needs what you bring based on, you know, skill sets and position and other.

And, you know, too often I see that, you know, kids, there may be a kid that picks up an offer at a certain program and you'll hear, you know, in the background the rumblings of, well, you know, I don't.

I'm not sure why they took that player because X, Y and Z players better.

And by the way, X, Y and Z player could be better.

But the difference is, is that's not the position that they were looking at you for.

And so I think that's where, you know, a lot of parents and players can get caught up and in the wrong things.

And so by me being able to know a college coach, know specifically what they're looking at, look at their current roster or their kids that, that maybe I saw a year ago or two year ago.

How does, how does that person, what did I see from that player that allows me to assess any new players basically that carry the, the same skills or, or operate under the same system.

That's where the real advantage of, of being in our program at Midwest and, and the connection to bleacher prospects.

In my opinion that's what gives us an advantage of, of or gives the player the advantage.

Because in most cases we're going to know where you fit, we're going to know what the level that you're at.

Now when I say that that's not agreeable to everyone.

And a lot of cases we may highlight a player as a certain level parents and, or players may not agree with that and certainly that's, you know, that's their prerogative to do it.

But we very rarely miss on where we believe the levels at and then ultimately where that kid ends up going is almost always exactly how we thought it would be.

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There's a tremendous amount of value in what you just talked about in terms of knowing both sides of the equation, having an understanding of the player, their skill set, making an evaluation of them and then taking it to the flip side and having an understanding of what a particular college program needs, wants, style of play, positional need right on the roster, which often plays a big part in how soon if you go there, you get on the floor, if at all.

And so a lot of that, if you can bring the knowledge on both sides of it like you're able to do, I can speak to you as the parent of a college athlete that trying to make those evaluations and understand both what the athlete is capable of, but then also what program should they end up.

And there's a lot of factors that go into what makes a good fit right there's on the floor, there's the school, there's the academics, there's the relationship between the coaches, there's what type of players are a part of their program and do they have a good culture and all of those things.

The more pieces of that puzzle that you're able to understand as someone who can help a player to make that decision and help their family to make a good decision, the more valuable that becomes.

Because I think even today, and it's so interesting because if you go back pre Internet, So we're talking 20 years ago, the amount of knowledge that was out there and available to players and their families in terms of recruiting and understanding all this stuff was very minimal.

Now the problem is almost there's too much information out there.

And like you said, when people are comparing, you have the comparison is the thief of all joy.

And I think that's 100 true that you see kids and their families and they're talking about, well, this kid got this offer and this kid got this offer and this kid's got this school interested in them.

And so you see a lot of that.

And I do think that there is a.

There's a lot of people who are delusional when it comes to again, the level that whether it's the player themselves, whether it's their family, like you said, there are some people that don't want to hear an honest evaluation of where they can play.

And I will say that that's one of the things that I feel like in the journey that I had with my son in terms of the recruiting was we identified and I told him pretty early on in the process that if you're going to be a college basketball player, I think you're going to want to target Division 3 schools that have really great academ.

And that's what we ended up doing.

And we ended up finding a good spot for him.

And so the ability to see both sides of it, to be able to accurately evaluate a player and then also understand on the program side what the coach is all about, the roster, the fit, the school, all that stuff that I talked about earlier, I think when you have both of those pieces like you have, that provides a tremendous, tremendous amount of value to the players who are your.

Who are a part of your program and come into your sphere.

What kind of feedback are you getting from parents in terms of.

Again, you said that there obviously are always people that ignore good advice, but from the people that you're helping, what are some of the positive things that you're hearing from them in terms of people who have been interacting with you both Through Midwest and through bleacher prospects.

You know, let me hit on one other thing here just before that.

I mean, we also have the advantage of, you know, being able to reach out to.

To various college coaches at different levels and, and ask for their input as well.

You know, as we're presenting a player, if we, you know, internally, if we agree that.

That we believe this player is a D2 player, an AI player, we have folks that we can reach out to and say, hey, coach, I really need your help here.

Can you take 15 minutes, watch this film, Tell me where you think he fits, by the way, not just in terms of.

Of level, but are there any schools that you would target for him that.

That maybe we haven't considered?

So we've got an advantage of that as well.

And we run a recruiting, you know, annual recruiting seminar that we invite all of our parents and players into.

It's not just Dustin and I leading that.

We have college coaches that are a part of that as well.

Parents and players have the opportunity to ask any questions that they want.

It's been a great session of information.

Kids walk away from that knowing.

Kids and parents walk away from that knowing.

It's not just what we're saying, it's what the college coaches are conveying to us.

But then to answer the piece around parents and players, and I think it's been phenomenal.

I think most every parent and player really appreciates the level of effort that we put into what we do.

I would venture beyond that and say that I think most AAU programs appreciate what we do.

You know, when the bleacher prospect army of the organization, it.

It extends to everyone.

It's just not a Midwest basketball club deal.

You know, we cover all the players, all the AAU programs.

We put a spotlight directly on top of them.

You know, there's game recaps, evaluations.

I mean, all of those things.

Rankings.

So they get a lot of.

Of a lot of in or a lot of publicity as a part of that, and then their kids grow as part of that.

The same thing with our.

With our recruiting database.

Our recruiting database is open.

We don't care which program you play for.

Wherever you're at in the AAU world, you can be a part of our program.

You know, all you have to do is ask us for the recruiting form, fill it out, keep it updated at a certain interval that we ask you to update it, and it keeps your information out in front of college coaches.

You know, if we have an opportunity to.

To build a relationship with you, we Will and, you know, promote you as we're promoting our program or our players in the program, we truly believe that.

That we have, you know, in the areas that we serve, we truly believe we have some fantastic basketball players and all of them doesn't play for us.

And so, you know, even for that, you know, filling a pipeline to a college with a kid that may not be part of our program, we look at that as an opportunity to create a relationship with that college and program to.

Whereas maybe the next one that they take is a Midwest basketball player.

So we're working every angle for every player, every program.

We're not just a Midwest basketball club deal.

We're really looking at it, know, as a regional thing and.

And hopefully impacting way more kids than just the ones that we're responsible for.

All right, big picture question.

What is AAU as a whole getting right?

And then what do you see as being a challenge out there in the AAU landscape that maybe collectively we can do better?

So something that AAU is getting right and maybe something that we still need to work on to make it better.

It'S super saturated, I think, at today's landscape.

I just think that there's too many.

Too many entities trying to, you know, influence that.

And there's.

I think when, you know, the new circuits are announced and.

And, you know, now all of a sudden there's.

You're going to 50 different opportunities for circuits.

I think.

I think from that perspective, I think that it's creating a model that's very difficult to keep up with.

I think it's a model that is difficult for college coaches to keep up.

You know, maybe at one point in time, they could have went to five or six different venues and seen all the players that they wanted, wanted to see, but now that's starting to.

To spread out more, and it's making it more difficult for them to get their eyes on kids, in my opinion, at probably one of the most critical junctures in their entire college, you know, recruiting cycle.

I think that needs to be cleaned up.

I don't know how it's cleaned up, but I. I think, you know, I.

There's.

I have my opinion on what I believe that.

That.

And I'm going to go the independent side.

The shoe circuits are.

Are one entity in and of themselves.

The best of the best play on those circuits.

Typically, most of Those kids are D1 college players.

So that supports an entire different, entirely different group demographic than what I'm talking about at the grassroots level.

But, you know, if those Organizations would come together, maybe, maybe they could build, you know, maybe there's five entities and they're bigger and better than they've ever been, and that there's more talent within the four walls that they're operating in, and it allows college coaches to.

To go back to those venues.

But, you know, to me, it's, you know, made hoops, in my opinion, is the pinnacle of all things independent basketball.

I think what they're doing and how they're bringing talent around the table, I think is different than everyone else.

I think that the way that they promote, the way that they ask for feedback and want and want to improve year over year, week over week, I think is a little bit different than what everybody's doing.

And so for me, that's the top circuit, independent circuit out there.

And for any player or program that has an opportunity to play on that circuit, I think you're setting yourself apart from, you know, maybe some.

Some other groups, but there's other ones that are really good, too.

I mean, a huge fan of hoop group ny2la.

I think the OhioBasketball.com is doing a great job with the E40 circuit, but, you know, you get deeper than that.

And now there's another 15 layers below that that in some cases people haven't heard of.

And the, you know, not only the challenge with getting college coaches to go see that, but now you've got players playing in empty gems that really and truthfully have no opportunity to be seen by anyone.

I just think that's a huge mess.

And I think it's just.

In my opinion, it's just wrong.

Specifically to the players and the families that are a part of that.

And what was the second part of the question?

Second part is, what is it doing?

Well, what are we doing?

What are we doing?

Well, I guess we kind of.

I guess you kind of answered both.

In all honesty, you talked about what we're doing, what we're doing.

Right.

And then you kind of talked a little bit about.

For those.

That.

For those.

I'm sorry.

Yep.

For those that are promoting, gosh, man.

The.

The ability to promote at the level that.

That they're able to promote at today with social media and.

And video and.

And just keeping things out in front is just incredible.

I mean, man, and you almost see it every year.

There's.

There's kids that are blowing up that people have never heard of, and it's all because there's a.

There's a camera there.

There's video that's going.

It's going out on social media.

I don't, from a kid's perspective, I can't imagine there's more of an exciting time for them than what they're seeing now to, to have those opportunities to, to just, you know, to, to be a part of the social media fanatics, if you will, and, and have their information pushed out and, and to stay in the spotlight and, and grow their brand when maybe they didn't have one at one point in time.

All right, final two, part question, part one, when you look ahead over the next year or two, what do you see as being your biggest challenge?

And then the second part of the question, when you think about what you get to do every day, what brings you the most joy?

So your biggest challenge and then your biggest joy.

I mean, I think for, for anyone, I think it's going to continue to be growth and, and that's growth in all things basketball.

The landscape changes almost every day and in, in every way, by the way, not just in terms of, you know, what we do as an organization, but the outward dynamics of recruiting and timelines and nil and the portal and all of those things.

Staying abreast of, of all of the developments with that and staying on top of the rules and timelines and how to best influence kids and parents is a bit of a challenge.

I think.

You know, a couple years back, you know, they would have already been recruiting 20, 27 kids and those 2027s would have been high on their radar, you know, already projecting forward of what their next couple of classes look like.

And you know, I talked to a parent today and I said, you know, unfortunately most college coaches, they won't even know what their next year's roster is going to look like as far as who's staying until April.

And I said, so they don't even really know what role they're recruiting for and there's probably roles that, that they're going to have to recruit for that they're not aware of now until that timeline.

And unfortunately, you know, the patience factor with players and parents of waiting for the best opportunity is challenging and you know, trying to direct and help them and, and guide them with the ever changing landscape 100% is the most challenging thing on a day to day basis that, that we deal with and is certainly the biggest opportunity or the biggest risk that we have as well, because I don't think we're done changing.

And so that's concerning.

It's.

For a high school player, it's really hard to get recruited nowadays.

And I Tell my parents and players all the time that, you know, no one's looking for a reason to recruit you anymore.

They're looking for the reason not to recruit you.

And you've got to be perfect in behaviors and mannerisms and support of your team and what you do in body language.

And you've almost got to be perfect now to have that opportunity.

But that's also what gets me up every day.

And, you know, it's something that, that we talk about, super passionate about it.

I believe wholeheartedly that, that I can and do have a significant impact on the players and families that come to me for help.

Whether it's a player that I'm coaching personally and have built a relationship with them, or if it's someone that I've met organically through a bleacher prospect event or something like that, I really believe that, that I give them an advantage.

And it's always great being a part of their story, being a part of what they're doing.

I believe that we create the stage, the showcase, the camps, the database, all of those things that allow them to focus on becoming the best basketball player that they can be and giving them the opportunity to step onto the next stage.

I couldn't be more proud of what we're doing and how we're doing it.

It's just been.

It's.

It's been incredibly fun and rewarding.

I tell my players same thing every year, is like, guys, this is all I want from you.

For anybody that I've ever helped.

And I tell every parent and player that as I'm helping you, the only thing that I want from you is, first of all, I want your very best.

I want you to be successful in everything that you do.

So put your all into this and chase it.

But all I ask for is for whatever school that you commit to.

You owe me a T shirt.

I wear an extra large.

I want my T shirt because one day I'm going to take the T shirts and turn it into a blanket.

Nice as well said, Chris.

And there is nothing better than, I think whenever you're in coaching, right, what you want to see is your players succeed in however you want to define that and succeed on the floor, succeed off the floor, succeed in life and build those connections.

And it certainly sounds like that is what you've been able to do.

Before we get out, I want to give you a chance to share.

How can people connect with you?

Find out more about what you're doing with Midwest.

Find out more about what you're doing with Bleacher Prospects.

Share, social media, email, website, whatever you feel comfortable with.

And then after you do that, I'll jump back in and wrap things up.

Yep.

So so bleacher prospect.com that's our website where we house all of the camp information, player profiles, evaluations and and rankings.

And then for Twitter it's Chris Hicks513 and then you know we've got Bleacher Prospect on Twitter as well.

That link is also in my bio for Twitter hrishicks513 Perfect.

Chris, cannot thank you enough for taking the time out of your schedule tonight to join us.

Really appreciate it.

And to everyone out there, thanks for listening and we will catch you on our next episode.

Thanks.

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