Electronic Walkabout. No one should have to walk through life alone. We share the good times, the bad times, and the best times. Everyone needs a little direction now and again. And TC and Maddog are here to show you the way. A podcast where we talk about the important things in life. Come journey with us. The Electronic Walkabout Maddog. We are continuing with our series on men's mental health. Clearly, we are not doctors or mental health professionals, but we are encouraging our listeners join the dialogue, which is really the point behind these episodes. In short, we're just a couple guys trying to find the light relating to men's mental health. Comments.

We're talking and just trying to get other men to talk as well now.

It just so happens we're fortunate to have G Train in the studio to join us on this particular journey. How are things in your house these days, G Train?

They're pretty hectic. I'm not going to lie. You know how me and my wife just found out we're expecting.

Oh, my God.

Congrats.

Thank you. Thank you. So it's. It's a lot going on, like a lot of emotions, a lot of feelings, and definitely this. This episode might be one to help me out with getting. Getting some of these fears across.

Oh, my God. And. And just be. Just before you got here, I was talking to Mad Dog and said, hey, look, you know, since the last time G Train was on the. On the electronic walkabout, he got married.

Yeah.

And we were. We're going to have a little fun with that. But then you just kind of let that off in our face.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure my wife's about to kill me on that one. We weren't supposed to go super wide just yet.

We'll just delay the release of this podcast until it's okay.

Got. Got a little too excited, but. Yeah, well, congratulations. That's. That's exciting news. And it. It's certainly going to change your life. And I'll just say for the better.

100%.

100%.

Even though the. The fears are there, you'll navigate them. And I think the fear only comes from wanting to do good. Right. So, yeah, just. Just roll with it, my friend.

So the title of this episode is going to be Screaming Suicide by Metallica, and it comes from one of their 2023 songs. The song is about the taboo word of suicide and to communicate the darkness we feel inside of us. Further adding how people cannot deny that they have dark thoughts at one point in their lives. In other words, if we go on with it. They say to face it is, is to speak the unspoken. If it's a human experience, and this is really the point about this song. If it's a human experience, we should be able to talk about it. And we are not alone. So. And I had mentioned in between episodes, it's crazy when you start doing the research about how many songs are out there about suicide and basically asking people that if you're in need or struggling to reach out. So join us this episode as we continue our dialogue in men's mental health and deeper the emotional challenges to the spirit spectrum of the very human experience of suicide. But first, as always, a thought for the day. If you don't work on keeping good mental health, in the end, nothing works.

Just gotta talk.

Just gotta talk. I think what I'm going to do is I'm going to throw some. Some myths as it relates to men's mental health. And let's just. If you have any comments, let's just jump in. Depression will make you a burden to others.

I think that's what people think.

I mean, it's really easy to think that way. But honestly, sometimes you just gotta reach out, you know, find someone, find something that helps you just get the voice across. Because I think the biggest problem I find in men's mental health in my own personal experiences, is the shame.

The shame?

Yeah, you know, the shame of like admitting it to somebody else. Like in my personal experiences, I've been scared to scare people, so sometimes I've just bottled everything up inside and avoided it. Sometimes you just got to reach out, find someone to talk to.

Keep in mind the dialogue that we're trying to encourage. And when you use the word sometimes, can we change that to all of the time? What do you think about that?

I can't express enough how just basic conversation can be a first step. Like it's. You don't have to solve all the problems in one go, but just actually being able to start a conversation or a dialogue with somebody, as hard as it may be, that is a first step. And then hopefully through that, people either can kind of figure out or get assistance or maybe some good advice, but you have to take that first step to talk.

And yes, it's going to be awkward. The words may not come out the way you would like them to, but. But the, the intention is there and the direction is certainly where we need to go for sure. Only women suffer from depression.

Nope.

No.

Everybody does, man.

I'm going to ask you a question. It's not even. It's not even in the plan. But I'm going to say, if someone asks you, are you feeling depressed, would you know how to an that question to start with?

Not at all.

I would like if somebody asked me, see, I got, I'd have to say this again. My wife is such an emotional being. So after 30 years, some of that has rubbed off on me. So I've been very fortunate and I truly do mean that to have a spouse like that that I've been able to. She always encourages dialogue. So I've been very fortunate. So I, I talk a lot if there's a problem, but that's just me. But I don't have a problem saying if I problem. Not at all.

And, and I wish I could take more like that. And, and I, I'm sure I'm speaking for a lot of guys the same way, because I know you and I talked the other day and we had someone close to us just, just pass away and we talk about men's mental health and how I, and I said, and I, and I love your response to it. Yeah. I'm just afraid that there, it might open up a few doors and your response. Doors, you have a vault. Yeah. Withdraw somewhere. So, but, so, I mean, it's, it's something that, that I, I struggle with. I'm making an effort to change it, but it's certainly not happening overnight.

That's great. You're making an effort.

Yes. And it's probably because of this myth too. Men are too tough to worry about their mental health.

I think it's more been conditioned over time to, to, to be put in us. Like. Yeah, it's one of those things where you grow up. And my dad was tough, and his dad was tough before him. And people always just say you need to toughen up and be a man. But I mean, sometimes even as a man, it's okay to say that, hey, I'm not okay right now.

And there has been a movement that I noticed because I had a friend that went through some pretty dark times where the whole movement was, it's okay to not be okay. And I, I thought I, I, you could see men kind of go towards that because that's. It's okay. Like, it is okay to not be okay, and no one has all the answers. But if you don't kind of at least talk, how, how can you make any progress?

Talking about your feelings makes you less of a man.

I used to believe that.

Yeah. Yeah.

I think that was a very, very valid and common thing, especially for the Older generation, like, you know, my dad and stuff. And in that era, because, you know, I think it was probably much worse for them, but you know that it was just y. If you're, oh, you're crying like a girl and blah, blah, blah, like that's. You hear that growing up, and it's.

Like, okay, well, I'll tell you, getting back to that conditioning, like, I only literally saw my dad cry once. And that was when his mother had passed away. My grandmother and I stood there, watched him cry, and I thought I didn't know what to think, let's put it that way. Because again, it gets back that whole conditioning and keeping in mind that the job. Because he was in law enforcement, that you're expected to keep your emotions in.

Check and such a difficult line of work, balance that out.

Outside of that, why is it so hard for guys to talk about how they're feeling?

It depends who you open up to. I find sometimes even as men, like we have our best friends and we're just sort of expected to be sort of the strong person. Like, I know in my group of friends, I've taken on my role of trying to be the guy everybody could depend on. But over recent years, like dealing with my own struggles as well, like, I've learned to say that, yeah, I like to be that person, to be the strong person in the room. But sometimes it's just, hey, I need to talk to somebody about my feelings. And it was hard for me to find someone who I could truly just let loose with, you know, and just be open.

And I think. I think I can relate to that for sure. And even to the point where if, let's say you are reaching out to. To that professional, you want the same kind of, I'll say, bond where you feel comfortable talking that. And that's. That's truly not an easy thing to do.

No, it's for. For guys, you have to, you know, let down of guards and be vulnerable. And then a lot of guys just aren't comfortable with that because it makes them less of a man. Or I'm not as tough if I cry or I feel emotions, which is. We have to break that. That thought.

You feel exposed.

No, I mean, we're not professionals in this playing field, so how can we really help? And I know we've talked about it, so maybe we have already answered this question, but let's go down the road. Like, if someone calls you up at 2 or 3 in the morning and say, hey, I'm not doing very well, can we talk what words are you going to pull out of your back pocket that are going to make that person feel good? Or do you feel confident that you can because we're not professional? So how. What is the expectation when you, when you find yourself in that conversation?

I think, you know, the one thing that I would like to hear is, I'm here for you. I'll listen to you. Like, that's it. That you don't necessarily need somebody to solve the problem immediately. You just might need to have somebody listen.

No, like, hey, man, you have my ears. If you need, we need to meet up. Let's do it. We need a coffee. Let's do it. Like, but I'm here for you. As Mad Dog said, like, I'm here to back you up, man.

Okay, so that's great. So let's say that one of your buddies or even an acquaintance that you've known for some time search to all just say, show signs that maybe something isn't right. How easy is it for you to reach out and say, hey, look, are you, are you okay? Because I've noticed a couple of things, and that's really, that's really the key. And you can learn how to do this. There's, there's resources to allow you to do this. But how easy is that to do?

Personally, like, in my, from my own experiences, if I've been pretty bad at noticing some of these things on some of my friends, then I feel, I feel terrible for that. But also at the same time, it's. Maybe you do pick it up and you do see the signs. You just call them up one day or send a text message like, hey, been a while. How are you doing? Do you want to talk about anything or you want to just go for a drink and hang out?

I love that generation thing. Also the text message. Well, I did say call a damn bit. Yes, you did. D Train for sure. Yes. Yeah, yeah.

Like you said, none of us are experts, and I, I truly think that we all would like to help our friends and no right answer. And unless you go to school for it and study it and go to university, you might not know what to say. But growing up, my best friend, you know, lost his dad when we were 18. We just graduated, and he did not deal with it like it was. It was obviously terrifying emotion, and he just covered it up with humor. But I knew at some point it was gonna bubble over. And it was about four years later, and I got a phone call at 2 in the morning, and I was living on a. My dad's house on a golf course. And he's like, hey. I'm like, hey, what's up? He's like, I'm just running. I'm like, what do you mean? He's like, I'm on the 15th tee. And I was like, what? Like, he had driven out to the course and, and I was like, what? I said, okay, I'll meet you on the 6et box. So I peeled myself out of bed and hammered down, met him there, and then I just ran with him because I, I knew it was all coming out, but he was my best friend and I, I, I, I was willing to do anything. I didn't know what to say, but I just, I had to be with him. And luckily, you know, he was able to, to navigate it. But I just, I knew at some point, based on, on how he initially dealt, that it was going to come up at some point. And so I just, I just did my best to be there. That's all I could do because that's all I knew.

And did you talk to anybody about that afterwards, say, hey, this is what happened and this is what I did, or anything like that, or just.

No, I don't, I didn't really psychoanalyze it per se. I just tried to keep him close and, you know, if he needed to talk, he could. And we reminisce about it once in a while. Especially when it comes to death, it's, it's hard for, if you don't have that set of their understanding your emotions and stuff like that, it's overwhelming. So sometimes people just shut it down and just leave it. Is that a good thing? Maybe not, because it usually comes out at some point. Maybe not in the best way, especially.

If there's maybe a few drinks behind.

Yes, that's the slippery, slippery slope in that area.

About, you know, D trade on the previous episode, we, we had Bob Reese on our, on our podcast, and one of the things we did kind of, kind of dance around us, like, and you kind of touched on a little bit. But how do you create that environment or, or that feeling that it's, let's say, okay to talk to my coach about the way I'm feeling. How do you do that from your experience?

Honestly, I haven't really had any players approach me or anybody come approach me personally about how they're feeling outside of, like, my personal friends. But from, like, a coach's standpoint, you just sort of show that you're available for a conversation. You tell them anything, anytime, anywhere. Man, you got A question about life in general, even, like, you just go ahead and give me a call. I'll be available for you. That's one of the easier ways of just sort of conveying the message of, we don't have to just talk about football, man, if you got something going on, just hit me up. We'll talk.

I can only imagine how terrifying it is that if you ever had a conversation with a friend and they said, I'm thinking of killing myself, like, you know what I mean? Like, I think I would personally be so lost because you do want to help. But confronted with that reality immediately in your face, I straight up panic. I wouldn't know what to do other than to call somebody else, quite frankly.

I mean, I've been called to a number of scenes where people taken their own lives. And aside from seeing those things, it just makes you wonder, what could you have done? Or what happened there? Did this need to happen, or could we have done something about it? And clearly, that's a very difficult question to answer because a lot of these people do a pretty good job of hiding things. So it's a question of trying to figure out, again, getting back that, hey, something's not right here. Even if you're hiding something, there's some telltale sign and just being alive to. Or having a sense that something's not right and just kind of drilling down.

Yeah. I mean, from the other side of it, like, again, back in my own personal spirits, is that you. You get good at hiding it. And it's. Honestly, it's. It's tough looking at it from that side because you know that you want to reach out, you want to scream out, you want to talk to somebody. But also at the same time, like I said, sometimes it's that personal shame. I had an experience not too long ago, unfortunately, where I was terr. Terrified of. I just didn't know what to do. And I'm sitting in my room covered in my own tears, just not knowing who to talk to. I wanted to talk to so many different people, but I was scared of scaring somebody and having them be freaking out over what I'm gonna do next. And so I just ended up calling 988 and getting on the phone with somebody because at least that way I'm not scaring any of my friends, my family. I was just talking to somebody as just another face.

Good for you for reaching out like that. You have to look at the letter of victories through all that. Right. Because if you didn't, you would have just had all those thoughts continually racing in your head. So good for you.

Yeah, kudos to you. And that's again, the whole point behind these episodes is to encourage people that if they find themselves in a situation that you found yourself g train is to pick up that phone, call a friend or call that helpline and get you pointed in the right direction. And it'll make a world of difference. Because what. And it's, and it's not just men's mental health. I think by nature, people, if they're asked to help, they're going to help you. And it doesn't matter what it is. It's just that this is such an important thing that we have to realize this.

Do you think people sharing more of their own stories helps people or you don't? I mean, like, how do you, how do you approach these things? Like, how do you, how does somebody know that it's okay to talk about it, you know, to break the stigma of those thoughts?

So that's a really, really good question. And, and what, what's going to happen with, with these episodes? There are some resources, some fantastic websites that, that actually have people telling their own stories and how that. Because they reached out that it. It was that. I'll say it this way, because we're going to talk more about sports, a TSN turning point in their lives that if just by virtue of making that call, it literally changed their lives or else something bad, something very bad would have happened to them. And I don't know what to say because again, I think we're all feeling around in the dark with this, trying to feel comfortable about this dialogue that has no comfort, at least at this point.

We're just taking baby steps into the ocean here. It is a far too common thing that's happening that really doesn't need to, unfortunately.

So it's a question and we'll talk more about it. It's a question about how do we begin that conversation? What's the structure behind the conversation? And to the point where you don't want it to be robotic because it has to be sincere because you want the people, that person to continue to confide in you and point them in the right direction. And again, please remember, if you're not a professional, don't, don't feel like you're going to literally save the world. Make sure that individual gets the help that they need now is part of the challenge that we are being. At least we feel we're being judged about our feelings and seen as weak.

I guess it depends how bad you want to talk, right? If. If you truly want to talk, you really can't pay attention to that stuff because, yes, you're going to be vulnerable by just sharing, but that's the whole point with talking is. Is to. To crack the surface of it and hopefully something gets figured out from it. But, yeah, you just. You just gotta do it.

Exactly. I mean, you can't be tough all the time. Going back to the conditioning comments of earlier, like, yeah, it's okay to be, you know, the strong person, but sometimes you just have to. Or not. Time. Sorry. All the time.

Well, thank you for that. Good catch.

I mean, I'm used to that sometimes.

Right.

But, like, every time you feel it, it's okay to just say, hey, I'm not doing okay right now. And then you reach out, whether it's to a friend, whether it's to your family, whether it's even, you know, to the. One of the help resources. It's okay to just say, I need to open up and I need to, well, not be weak in that moment. But, like, I think you're a lot stronger by admitting to yourself that you're not okay.

It's almost like you have to let your go and just trust that someone's going to love you.

Exactly.

And even if, like I said, they're. Even if they're not the professional, at least they can assist or help guide you or point you in the right.

Direction or even just hold you. Man, sometimes you just need the hug.

Both of you guys.

We'll get you hugging one day. Tom Doer.

On the previous episode G Train, we talked about Adrian Francis, a member of the Husker family that recently took his own life. And I'm just wondering, when you heard that, what came to mind? And what did you do?

I just sort of sat in it like, I heard it probably a day or two after it all happened. And it was. It was rough because, like, he was a really good kid. Everybody loved him. Don't even know how he came up, came to the nickname of Mike. But, like, whenever that kid was on the field and making a play, you just hear everybody just scream, mike. That's my boy, Mike. And I'm just sitting there like, this is Adrian. But sure, there he is. But, you know, he just. He had this smile that just seemed to light up the world. It just. I. I wish, like, there was more I could have done for him. I wasn't his direct coach, but, like, at the same time, I don't want to fall into. What else could I have Done.

I think everybody would naturally think that in that scenario, if, if. If there's no visible signs, there's no visible, you know, communication happening. I think that is a natural default. Like, what could I have. I. I should have done something. But was. Was there something that you could have done? Right? So it's. We're hard on ourselves sometimes for that.

Very hard on ourselves. And, and when we talk about figuring out what the signs are, and we talked a little bit about it on the, on the, on the last episode, but that's pretty hard to do because if all of a sudden. And it's funny, being aggressive, out of the ordinary. Aggressive is a, is a. Is one of the signs. But then when we talk about football, you want to see aggressive behavior. So it's, it's kind of a turn.

Around to every player. Are you okay? Are you okay? You're being super accepted.

Yeah, definitely. It, It.

It's.

It's tough to see definitely in this sport for sure. But I don't know, I, I think, like, you kind of do get lucky neighborhood that you have where, you know, you do come across a teammate or somebody where you could just say, hey, man, I've been doing well lately. Like, for me, it was easy to hide behind football because that was my distraction from real life. And it wasn't only until like my recent years from like 2020 till now, where I realized I'm not okay when I'm not near football.

Let. Let me ask you this. How did you know where to reach out to when you were feeling that.

Way the first time around? When I started coming down to those feelings, I was getting scared a lot. And I reached out to a buddy who then directed me to a nice counseling place in Abbotsford. So I took on therapy to recorrect what's going on in my life. And that, that did help. It really did help. Like being able to just talk to someone who, you know, didn't know me, someone who I could just vent to and no judgment. Exactly right. And I think that was again, the thing that sort of brought me back from my more recent experience where I just went on Google, typed in I need. That's all I did, just googled I need help. And I was scrolling and scrolling and then I found a number and called the number, and within a minute, somebody was on the line with me. And I was just. I let go.

But see, the fact that you're sharing this hopefully will help somebody else at some point, right? Because when you're not going through it, it's like, hey, yeah, that makes sense. But when you're in it, you can't see it. You don't know what to do.

It was. It was honestly a really terrifying experience because like I said, there was four or five people who I could have called right then and there. But. But the more scarier part was just not wanting to scare them and then the shame of just not wanting to admit to them that I'm not.

Okay, so let me ask you this. After you made the call, did you share that with the buddies at that point? Because do they know about that or how's that?

It wasn't something I really shared pretty wide, actually. Like, I kept it pretty close to the chest. And when I came home, I talked to my wife and I said, hey, I had a bad experience. And we talked about it and we sort of got through it. And even though I haven't really shared outside of my own home, it was one of those, like, it still sits with me. Like the whole. The whole feeling of what, what it was was just. It. It's. That experience still lives here in there somewhere. And it, you know, kind of scares me that one day it's gonna come back.

Okay, well, that, that's. That seems. I'm gonna say it like this. That seems perfectly normal. I. I'm. I'm gonna say the feelings that you have, and that's kind of where the whole point behind Scre italica sign is that the feelings that you have or anybody else that gets to the point where they want to make that call, they don't know who to reach out to is normal. It's how you react to it that really we need to work on. And that's the whole point behind the dialogue. And so to get to the point where let's say I want to cause harm to myself again, we all had that feeling. We can deny it all we want at one point in our lives rather than there's people that take it to the next step. And when they get into that state, they really have to understand that there are people out there that not only care, but can help.

Definitely.

You know, I think that this is an important part of it too, is, you know, we, we talk about men's mental health, but to get to that point where you're considering self harm or you have thoughts that you just can't get your head around, you know, you don't hear a lot of discussions of, of. Of those specific incidences. So for you sharing that, that's a big thing.

And this is not the first time that we about men's mental health on electronic Walk about when he, one of our previous hosts was with the podcast, he wanted to do an episode on men's mental health because he struggled. And, and yes, I, I, I was diagnosed I, with ptsd and I, I, I didn't want to say I didn't because I'm still dealing with it. I'll probably continue to deal with it, but it's that. Okay, well, the whole sharing thing, like you said, if it's, if it's going to help someone, then it's important to.

Do it and it is okay to not be okay. That's the thing, right? There's, we all go through different traumas and stuff like that, so we need to learn to be okay with talking about not being able to deal with it.

Exactly. Like the world needs more of us or the world needs more view, man. The world loves you, man. So please, please just talk about it when you're not feeling it.

And kind of tongue in cheek, I was actually going to make fun of you tonight because last time, the last time that we saw each other, of course, was right in front of the hustlers clubhouse. And the words that come out of you, Much love, much love. And I knew that you were totally sincere when you said that, G train, but I'm not comfortable with it. And again, that gets back to that whole we gotta not be afraid of our emotions and it's okay to say that. And you wear it very well when you do that because you can tell it's sincere. And being able to open up is not easy for everybody. And even like, like you say the baby steps, I mean, the baby step is truly just let's say listening to these podcasts and saying, okay, yeah, maybe I should call someone, then we've made a difference.

Please do. So we can say, please call somebody if you need.

So I'm going to talk about one of the resources. It's actually a website you can go to and it's, it originates from Alberta and it's called 11 of us. And the reason why it's called 11 of us is because every day there's 11 people in Alberta that attempt suicide. So what that website does is it provides resources if you want to have that conversation. So we talk about the signs. Okay, I see the signs and I need to have this conversation with someone that I care about it. You go to this website and again, they'll be in the show notes and it gives you the format of how you're going to engage in this conversation. And again, just to remind everybody, we're not saying that we're. We're professional, but just think about it. I'm. You. You talk about being scared because what's going on, but I'm scared because I'm concerned for you, and I don't know how to approach it. This website gives you the tools that basically says, okay, well, how do. How do I start this conversation? What do I say during this conversation? Where can I point this person so they can get the help they need? And. And that's the whole point. And then how do I. How do I follow up to make sure that everything is. Is. Is going on the way that it should be?

And, you know, the one good thing that I've seen as of late is you start seeing more men's groups popping up where it's just guys sit in a circle sharing. And. And that's fantastic because, you know, it. It goes along with that. It's. It's not ever one person singularly. It's usually a group.

Right.

If it's one person struggling, a hundred people are struggling. Exactly.

We talk about stats in the last episode. Scary stats and will. It's whether stats go up. My guess is they probably will because they're probably underreported. And once that happens, realize that how normal this is. And it's just a question of making sure that it's almost like having the buddy system because of what happened to Adrian. There will be a poster at the clubhouse that check in both on and off the field. Mental health check in both on and off the field. So we just got to figure out what that means. And you talk about baby steps. Well, I think it's a bit of a giant step, but there's got to be some baby steps that follow that for sure.

Especially with the young men coming into adulthood and stuff. They. They battle with a lot of different things, and struggling with understanding emotions is one of those things. So if. If that is a simple visual reminder that they could talk to somebody if they need, that's great.

Yes.

Like, I've. I've noticed that, like, the next generation after mine and the generation after that, they've done a really. A really good job of prioritizing mental health check in. I've definitely noticed a shift from when I was younger till now where it's like, hey, this has kind of got to be a pr. It definitely goes to show that there is conversations happening, but definitely a lot more I find need to happen where, as you said, if one person struggling 100 people are, you know, from those hundred people, maybe a thousand more. So normalizing, you know, these conversations and sharing our stories just shows that we're all human. At the end of the day, we're all struggling the same, but we all need to give each other a hand.

I think that the part of the problem is that when you find yourself in that situation where you are having those thoughts and they call them dark thoughts and again, again, like going back to that Metallica song and I think use the word as well, maybe because, because I was, I was in a dark place that, that has a whole different connotation. Like it's, it's, it's. You shouldn't be there. Don't. Don't go there. And, and again, as soon as you start thinking that way, then it being normal goes out the window.

Yeah, you get trapped in your own head. And like G Train said, sometimes you fill your life with distractions, but then when you do end up by yourself alone, it is completely overwhelming. And, and you know, I think that's where it gets dicey for some people and they just know how to deal.

And, and what happens is this negative self talk starts to enter into the picture and you think to yourself, well, the world is going to be better without me anyhow. And when you start thinking that way, first of all, there's, and I don't care who it is, there's people that care for you in this world. So the world will not be a better place if you decide to leave it the way you want to leave it. It'll be a better place with you in.

In it for sure. And that's. I think that's a message that we need to sort of help drive home because it's so easy to feel like you're alone. And it's so easy to feel like you're the only one you can depend on yourself. And to get into those thoughts, into those places is real tough. But as you said, like, the world is better with you in it. Like, the world needs you, man.

It's funny that this question that, that I just got down here, I think we're already kind of answered it, but I'm going to ask it anyhow because if we can expand on it, it would be. Think even better. But if you had a message to anybody that's considering suicide, what would it be?

You know, I think G just said it. Is that. That is not an answer. Absolutely not. You know, suicide should never be an answer to solving a problem. It is hard to deal with but you just have to talk to somebody. You don't even need to know what to say. You don't expect answers. Just, just start talking and hopefully it takes you somewhere better than the state that you're at at that moment.

Moment, definitely. Like, I, I see it sort of like maybe like if you look at it as a three tiered answer, like, come talk to me. You know, if you can't talk to anyone, you can come talk to me. If you can't talk to me, talk to somebody you don't know. If you can't talk to somebody you don't know. Like I said, in my experience, I just googled, I need help. And immediately that's all, all the resources came up. If you feel like you're going to scare some of your friends, you can go the anonymous route. There are options for that where you can just talk to somebody you don't even know and you, you get back on track.

Just to kind of run with the theme about being normal. But if you were to phone me up and say, hey, look, I'm having a really hard time, the normal response is, I'm going to be scared, but I'm going to be scared for you. I'm not, I'm not going to be scared with the, with the news you're telling me I'll be scared for you and I'll want to help.

And, you know, some of the nice things, like, you know, Jelly Roll's got that song out. Like, I'm not okay, you know, and when you actually really listen to it, you know, he does go pretty dark into the song. But at the end of almost every chorus, it's like, it's going to be all right, right? Like, yeah, it is. It is normal to not have just sunshine and rose petals in your thoughts. It's. Everybody has, you know, negative or to avoid dark thoughts, but it will be okay. Like, you just, just, just talk. For God's sakes, just talk.

Definitely, definitely. Like, you might think that you're just one, like, Linkin park said it best than what their songs. One More Light. It was a beautiful song when I first heard it. But, you know, he says if one more light goes out, who would care? Well, I do. And that had to say is just, I would care about shoes. You know, if you, if you, if anybody to hear in the message right now, it's, don't just think that you're just one little piece of the machine. Like you're, you're still a very important piece. And a lot of people will Will, will. Will be hurting without you. The world needs you, man. For sure.

The world needs you for sure. For sure. So I've already talked about the website, the Love of Us and, and just to clarify it, there's rarely been a more important time to check in with one another. 11 Edmonton Attempt or die by suicide per day. If you're wondering if someone you know could be considering suicide, yes, they could be. Think about that. If you think they are, yes, they could be learning the signs, becoming informed and checking in to have a meaningful conversation or a good place to start to dig. Together we can prevent suicide. So it doesn't matter where you go. If you're looking on the Internet, they're promoting this. Let's engage in this dialogue. Let's have the talk. Let's. And I love the way that, that, that you put a mad dog. Let's, let's do the baby steps. The baby steps will be bigger steps as time goes on.

No, I think the hardest one is the initial step. Right. It's like going to the gym or trying out for a team for the first time. It's horrifically terrifying until you kind of get into it and then it just, then the perspective changes. So I think the same thing with men's mental health is that even if you take a little step forward, just that initial entry into it will probably give you a bit of a different frame. That, okay, that, that wasn't as hard. I can keep talking and, and hopefully that leads to something good.

And, and I, and I will tell you this, it might be two or forward and maybe one back. And that's just normal. It really is. And if you find yourself in that situation where, where you've, you've taken the time and you, you notice someone that has the signs, you've had that conversation. I think it's important that you also look after yourself because that is, it's, it's going to take its toll on you as well.

So, and you know to that point that he just said, if you take three steps forward and one step back, you're still two steps ahead of where you were when, before you started that whole thing.

So getting back to that 11 US 11 of US website, really it's advocating learning the signs because it may not be obvious when a person is suicidal, but by learning the specific warning signs can help you notice when a person may be at risk. Not everyone who shows a warning sign is considering suicide. But why take a chance?

Just same thing. Just got to talk doesn't the outcome could be completely different than what the person intended.

So, you know, I'm, I'm just going to mention the website. It's one, one of us of dot Edmonton ca And I'd ask the listeners just to, just to check it out and see what kind of information is available to them. Anything you want to add to that G train.

If you, if you feel like you're, you're, you're, you're suffering or if you just sort of suspect somebody you know that is suffering, it's okay to reach out. It's okay to just say, hey, how are you doing? Or hey, I'm not doing okay. It's, it'll be really hard, hard to take that first step. But I promise you, once you do, you might be setting yourself up for, if not recovery, a much better step forward or a step in the right direction.

Yeah, it's banging the drum repetitively. But yeah, it is okay to not be okay. Not everybody has it all figured out and we all struggle with things. So please just, even if, you know, suicide isn't something you're thinking of, but you still have negative thoughts, take the step forward and at least try to talk about it.

Thank you very much for that. Unfortunately, that music is, is telling us this episode has come to an end. But it doesn't mean that we're not going to continue to talk about men's mental health and the challenges that surrounds somehow managing that. But I do want to share with the listeners something that we did receive from Adrienne Francis, Sister Raven, that kind of really hits home. And she shares talking about checking in with mental health awareness as well. Wonderful. But sharing a few words on how to respond when someone reaches out to you and knowing the signs. A lot of people don't know how to respond or see the signs when someone is struggling deep down. When things get serious and someone opens up, knowing how to respond can be helpful. Responding in a thoughtful and compassionate way makes a difference for someone who is.

Struggling to have compassion for your fellow human being.

So I mean, thank you very much for those words. And again, anybody hears those and it makes a difference, then we're helping that dialogue to continue. Help is available. Speak with someone today anywhere in Canada. 988 Suicide Crisis Helpline. Remember to take advantage of the moment before the moment takes advantage of you. To learn more about eWalkabout, please visit us at eWalkabout CA.