E067 - How Betrayal Trauma Hijacks Your Brain & Nervous System - And How To Break Free With Heidi Dike Kingston (Part 2)
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Speaker 9: [00:00:00] In this episode, you will discover how betrayal trauma hijacks your brain and nervous system and how to break free.
Speaker: Welcome to Heartbreak to Wholeness, the podcast helping you heal from the mindfuck of narcissistic relationships and move towards the secure, peaceful woman you want to become. I am your host, Bre Wolta, Relationship Clarity Coach and EFT Certified Practitioner. Let's dive in.
Speaker 10: Welcome back to Heartbreaks to Wholeness. In this episode, you will discover why betrayal trauma overwhelms you and makes it so hard to move on. You will discover the real reason that you're second guessing yourself instead of leaving. And you'll discover how betrayal trauma causes lasting damage to your body and how to begin to heal.
This is the part two continuation from my conversation with Heidi Dyke Kingston. Heidi has worked with betrayal [00:01:00] survivors for years and will give you so many answers to your questions about betrayal and why it feels like life and death to try to move through and heal from them. If you've been trapped in this.
whirlwind of emotions after betrayal, leaving you torn between the instinct to stay close to this person who has hurt you and the rationalization that you should leave, this episode is for you. And remember to stick around to the end of the episode where I will pull an oracle card that will offer you a specific message that you can use this week to stay more conscious in your healing.
Speaker 6: When we are attracted to those types of people who are, um, unavailable on some level or also unhealthy on some level or dysfunctional or abusive or what be it,
sometimes we experience betrayal in relationships. And I know you have experience of working with women who have gone through betrayal, sexual [00:02:00] betrayal with Tell us a little bit about what, what that process looks like, what that discovery and, and recovery process looks like after you've what's the saying? when you have the rug pulled out from under you is there.
Speaker 7: I love the rug pulled out from under you when we talk about betrayal trauma, ~um, ~for women, because you are, you end up in a mid trauma span.
And so in my work as a therapist, I stumbled into this work, ~um, uh, ~when I was with the Center for Relational Recovery in Northern Virginia. ~Uh, ~the woman who is the clinical director there is Michelle Mays, and she's the author, ~um, ~of the book, ~uh, ~I think it's The Betrayal Bind.
Speaker 8: ~Uh,~
Speaker 7: and her work is just incredible.
And while I was part of that practice, she asked me to start working with women who were betrayed partners, and most of the time they were coming in with their spouses, and who they themselves had been struggling [00:03:00] with sexual acting out, what looked like sex addiction, maybe pornography addiction, and that sort of thing.
And what happens for women, and I learned this, is That attachment system is so strongly dominant within us that for the partner who has been in a relationship, been in a marriage, ~um, ~for decades even, with someone who they then discover has been acting outside the contract of their marriage or their relationship, they absolutely go into trauma mode, overreactive central nervous system, that sense of ~um, ~bottoming out, that.
Absolutely nothing in their life all of a sudden, ~um, ~can be counted on or as certain. And so that's, that's the front part of their brain. You know, that's the big thinking part of our brain that we as humans all have. And the ability to seek safety in that [00:04:00] is extremely challenging for these women.
Because on the one hand, they know they've been hurt and they've been wounded terribly, maybe even the most profound pain they've ever felt in their life. They're thinking brain knows that, but their attached brain says, if you get away from this person, you're going to die. And so they are in a mid trauma span.
Both parts of their brain are sort of arguing with one another. There's that implicit felt sense that says, that's my partner. I can't get away from him. He helps me to feel safe and secure. But then this thinking part of the brain says, ~uh, ~no, he's hurt you more than anyone else on the planet. Get away from him.
Often what will happen to women in this situation, even after we'll say the dust has settled. is there's that thing called attachment ambivalence, meaning I know I want to be close to this person, but I also want them to feel as bad as I feel.
Speaker 8: I
Speaker 7: need to be [00:05:00] close to this person says the attachment system, while the thinking brain says this person has betrayed you and harmed you the most.
And so on the one hand, When you're working with them, they'll say, yeah, we had a really great lunch. And then by Saturday evening, I told him to pack up and get out. And let me just say, well, it may not feel normal and an individual in that situation may feel crazy. You're not crazy.
Speaker 6: I want all the women ~to, ~to really receive that right now who are listening, because That experience of having the, I hate you, but I need you, like I need you on some level ~is, ~is not your fault. It's, it's a response to the trauma that you have been through. Your brain is literally telling you that you are going to be unsafe if you are alone.
~So, That, ~that untangling of that takes a professional to help you be able to work through that space, but it doesn't mean that anything is wrong with you. It doesn't mean you're crazy. ~It doesn't, it doesn't mean anything. ~It just means that you went through [00:06:00] something where your attachment system connected that you needed to be with someone in order to be safe.
And even if that person is unsafe or is hurting you or is, you know, actively jeopardizing the contract of the marriage or the relationship or whatever. I work with a lot of women who can't make understanding around that piece and are just berating themselves over and over again. And the, the compassion that you have to find for yourself and the reason why that's happening.
Is number one, we have to be able to meet ourselves with, okay, I'm feeling this way. I'm having these conflicting thoughts because of something that happened in my childhood. And it's, ~it's fixed. ~It's figureoutable, right? It's fixable. You
Speaker 7: can heal your attachment system.
Speaker 6: ~Yeah.~
Yes, ~exactly.~ So I, that betrayal trauma is really. And that's, it's very confusing and can feel very hopeless when you are [00:07:00] in it. I know when my, when the betrayal with my ex came out, the first thought that I had was, well, I'm not, I'm not leaving. Like we just have to figure out how to do this. And I'll get to your point, like all signs pointed to this, not being a healthy person who was, who was willing to look at, at his stuff or take accountability.
And ~my, ~my adult self, my rational self was like, Not, not having as much say as ~the, ~the connected ~part of my, or the attached ~part of my brain that was like, you've already committed yourself to him. And the loyal part of me that was like, we've already decided that this is going to be our forever person.
Right. It wasn't taking into accountability all of the pain and the hurt and the lies and the betrayal that was happening.
Speaker 8: Yes.
Speaker 7: Yeah, and you know, I think that what happens in this situation is, number one, you really brought up a great point of self compassion [00:08:00] and That comes along over time. I know that doesn't come quickly, but I think that many betrayed partners get in a space where they feel like they have to make a decision of I'm staying in this and we're going to fix it or work on it or I'm done and I'm leaving.
This is just, let me tell you, those who are listening, if anyone in your life tells you that you have to sit in one or the other of those two camps once you've had discovery, Move away from those people. And let me tell you why. That's a very rigid way to look at how to show up for and care for yourself after you've discovered something like this.
Instead of your either or, black, white, ~uh, ~in this relationship, kindly sitting with yourself and saying, I'm going to try to exist in a world of both and. I both can verbalize that I'd made up in my mind that this was my forever person. And that no matter what, we could or would work through things. And [00:09:00] then I also am learning some really big, incredibly painful information about this person in our relationship.
So I feel both ways right now and I'm not prepared to make up my mind about anything with discernment or certainty because I'm experiencing a trauma response and this isn't a good time for me to make a decision. It's a time for me to look for people who can hold space for me and hear me,
Speaker 6: whoever that is.
That nervous system regulation has, has got to be a part of that equation because when we are stuck in the trauma response, we don't have access to our emotional brain or our rational brain, which is why it feels so hard to make a decision or to feel like you can trust your decisions when you are stuck in a trauma response.
It's not because your intuition doesn't work. It's not because you're not a smart person. It is because All of your resources are going to the part of your brain that's like, we are in threat, we need to get away. It's not going to the [00:10:00] part of your brain that's like, let's think about how we feel about this threat.
It's going to get away from the threat. So we have to regulate the nervous system first. In order to bring back capacity to those other parts of the brain. And when ~you are, ~you are in these situations where you are fighting yourself, right? You're fighting those parts of your brain. People are throwing all of their opinions at you.
The person's telling you that they're going to change, you feel like you're in a tornado of confusion and you're just. Spinning in it. So finding the safe person that can hold the space for you to help to start to make some sense out of these things and to regulate your nervous system is so vital for you to then get to that next step of this is the decision that feels right for me.
Speaker 7: You're so right. And it is, ~it's a, ~it's a terrible time to be pressured to make a decision or to feel that you're going to make a thoughtful one. You are, you are in a mid trauma span and Just the example I gave [00:11:00] earlier, on Saturday, you may have a wonderful lunch with your partner or your spouse, but by Saturday evening, something has spun you up.
Rightfully so. You could have been triggered by something, you might have had a memory, you might have felt something, and all of a sudden then, you're back in fight, flight, freeze mode. And so it's not a great time to make a decision. It's actually an inhumane time to expect that you can make a thoughtful, self compassionate choice.
Speaker 6: And I'll even share that that trauma response had, in my current relationship with ~my, ~my healthy fiancé,
Speaker 8: I
Speaker 6: have had moments where something has happened that, that is not even replicable or, or not even similar on the outside, but it hit a feeling of mine from my past relationship. And that trauma response came back and I was like, I am still upset about this thing that happened with my ex.
Like I thought I was over this and we can get [00:12:00] into that, ~um, ~criticism again of I already dealt with this. That was four years ago. I shouldn't be feeling this anymore, but our body made an association of something that was similar and is like, okay, trauma on, we're here. We need to get away from this. So again, that gentleness and that compassion of Being able to recognize that that is still living in the body somewhere.
And it's, again, nothing's wrong with you. You didn't do healing wrong. You're not moving backwards. It's just another layer that is being presented in a different way. And you have the opportunity ~to, ~to greet that and to be with that and to heal that. And when you have a supportive partner. that can recognize that your response to something that they're doing is based on a past experience that you had and can hold space for that.
Like that's the fucking jackpot because ~what we don't, ~what we don't want is the current partner to then be like, well, why are you accusing me of this? Or why are you [00:13:00] scared of this? I'm not that person. And you're like, I know, I know you're not that person, but this is happening because of my past. And we need just a lot of safe space when we're feeling those.
~Those ~trauma responses surface.
Speaker 7: You know, that's a great time to whip out your notebook, write down what happened and then go talk to your coach, your, um, you know, one of your recovering girlfriends, ~um, ~talk to your therapist because I remember this too, you know, in the training I've had in the past, several of the people I worked with would say, you know, ~if you don't finish, ~we continuously work to finish the scenes, the unfinished scenes in our lives.
I think of those as those implicit memories that can be brought up for us ~and relate ~when we're in relationship with another. And we may be having a fight with our current significant other that maybe we should have been able to have 15, 10, 20 years ago, right, with the other person. But boy, implicit memory is strong,
and all that is, is [00:14:00] evidence of that unfinished business. Healing yet to do. ~And you can do it. ~If you don't do it though, it's going to keep showing up in those patterns we talked about earlier. And it's going to be self destructive to us. ~And, um, ~we got to make that change. Nobody else can do it for us.
But we can.
Speaker 6: Yeah. And acknowledging how much, again, courage it takes to look at this stuff, to say, Oh, I'm not going to stick my head in the sand around my patterns. I'm not going to be okay in this momentary time where I'm not feeling agitated, but then feel the same exact cycle happen with my partner for the next 20 years.
That takes so much bravery. Especially when you're looking back on things that are really, really painful, be it a betrayal, be it a narcissistic relationship, be it, you know, ~whatever, whatever, ~Whatever the trauma is, ? Looking at our traumas in any capacity is, it takes incredible strength. So for those women listening, [00:15:00] you are choosing the harder road that, that will lead you to the better life, but it is the harder choice to, to go down that path.
Speaker 7: It's a lot harder to make the commitment to care for yourself. and to get your story straight around what happened to you. I think that we probably, many of us probably witnessed other grown ups in our lives do a lot of avoidance, perhaps a lot of silent treatment, a lot of compartmentalization, um, curating their speech in terms of what they said or how they said things to one another and We take on those skills in our grown up lives and the only way we can work through that is to sit down around it and talk about how it's showing up for us today.
You can definitely do that. You know, when I worked with Pia Melody for years, she's like, you know, going one up and feeling as though you know everything and that you've got [00:16:00] all the answers is a form of self protection, but it keeps
Speaker 8: you out of
Speaker 7: the middle where your humanity is.
Speaker 8: You can
Speaker 7: go one down and remain silent in a void, maybe, and not prioritize talking about things that you really need to talk about.
Or you can get back up into your humanity, and you can say something like, I don't have all the answers, I've made a thousand mistakes, but I'm also not going to remain silent, and I'm also not going to pretend like I've got this or I know how to do this. You end up suffering in silence. So the work is really just getting back into your humanity and saying to yourself, I have a right to address my issues around intimacy, feeling heard, asking for what I need.
And that is so hard, especially if it's not something you watched people do when you were a kiddo. ~Um, ~and especially if you haven't had the safety and security to do that in a relationship before. Yeah, it's [00:17:00] terrifying sometimes.
Speaker 6: Yeah, because what that also means is that you are turning back on your access to your feelings.
Right? If we are in the one up or the one or the below, we're not, we're not accessing how we really feel about things. So often when we, when we start this work, the learning how to feel and let feelings be okay is, you know, Like step one, right? We have to be able to be in our body and to, to not get thrown too far out of our window of tolerance, if we're feeling sadness or anger or shame or embarrassment or what, what be it, right?
Yes. ~It's, it's, ~it's a process. It takes time. It takes compassion. We want to do all this stuff on our own and we just cannot heal relational wounds in isolation. We just can't.
Speaker 7: Yes, ~you know, okay, ~if you have developmental and relational trauma, you have that and you are experiencing that as a result of the damage you received in relationship from [00:18:00] another human being,
Speaker 8: you
Speaker 7: cannot heal that in a vacuum.
You can't heal it if you read every self help or self improvement book on the planet. ~You can't heal that if you do workbooks and worksheets all the time and you keep a journal,~
Speaker 8: you may
Speaker 7: experience some relief. But it's not going to heal until you get into relationship with another. You know, Bre, you're shaking your head.
You're like, yes, yes. I have worked with women clients who have survived betrayal trauma and they've really been able to heal and their lives have changed and improved in so many ways. But they know that they're still struggling.
Speaker 8: And
Speaker 7: often it is fear of vulnerability, of perhaps trying a new relationship.
They are scared to death of being vulnerable in the presence of another in that way. And I always try to remind them, listen, you're going to have to get uncomfortable and maybe go on a date or maybe just sit and have coffee with someone.
Speaker 8: Yeah.
Speaker 7: Because that's what it is. You aren't going to be able to heal that profound wounding you experienced in a betrayed relationship [00:19:00] until you're able to get to know another person and begin to feel safe and secure in their presence.
You don't have to marry him. Just go on a coffee date with him. Go to the farmer's market. ~That's it. ~But you gotta try.
Speaker 6: Yeah. And we have to make that safe relationship with ourselves first ~as the, ~as the touch tree to be able to come back to, right? It's like, okay, if I go on this date and I feel really scared, at least I know that I'm safe with myself and I can reparent myself through that.
~Peace. ~But for all of the women listening, I'm, I'm a walking testament to this. ~Like, ~towards the end of that relationship, I was actually diagnosed with PTSD, be it from betrayal, trauma, narcissistic trauma. I don't know what the category was, but my therapist diagnosed me and I was like, what? Like ~I, ~I thought PTSD came from war, you know?
And that, that is a common misunderstanding, but I have moved through that, I have moved through that healing, that very painful healing process, rewired my attachment ~Um, ~system to be safe and, and [00:20:00] willing to receive secure attachment.
And I'm now in a healthy relationship and that didn't happen overnight. That didn't happen without tears and without, you know, crying in the fetal position on the floor many days. But it happened because I continued down that path. And for those of you listening who are like, I don't see the end of the tunnel.
I don't see the light. Like What is this? I don't want to be here. I keep going, keep going, keep going, keep finding your safe people. Keep picking up the little pieces of who you are. Like it is possible and doable and you might not like it every moment of it, but it is possible and doable.
Speaker 7: Yes, it is. And you know, put that sneak, that self compassion piece in there that says something like, you know, my entire of safety and security.
I was robbed of that. No wonder I am struggling to feel [00:21:00] hope, to feel hope in humanity and the possibility of moving forward in my life. Okay, let's acknowledge how incredibly painful and damaging and traumatic betrayal is and that you are healing though. If you are 1 percent better today, that's better. If you are functioning 1 percent better in this moment than you were a week ago, that is progress. ~Stick with it. Yeah, ~stick with it. And, you know, give yourself a chance to begin to trust that intuition that can be watered down, whittled down, cored out of you from an exploitive or abusive relationship.
If you have had to survive toxic narcissism in a relationship, ~um, or a partnership over a long period of time, ~Be really kind to yourself and remember, you know, I lost my identity in an attempt to survive and maintain this relationship and I am still learning who I am and I'm giving myself the time to do this because I don't know who that is yet.
~I probably need to be with and if we're speaking to women, I need to be with other women. ~I need to be with other women who can teach [00:22:00] me how to. Listen to myself
Speaker 8: and
Speaker 7: who can help me to develop that internal sense of safety and security that comes with developmental maturity and the recovery I deserve ~in this ~in this traumatic experience.
Speaker 6: Absolutely. Oh, we could talk forever, but I feel like ~that's a, ~that's a good, zinger to end on
Speaker 7: listen, I tell people, get you a group. Yes. Get you a group. What kind of group? Well, ~maybe, ~Maybe SANON is a group for you. That's a 12 step program for, ~uh, ~individuals who have survived betrayal trauma in a relationship where, ~um, ~there's been sex addiction present with their partner.
~That's a great one. ~Find a therapist who specializes in betrayal trauma. There's the Association of Partners for Sex Addicts. trauma specialists. There, there are thousands of clinicians in the country who are trained under that model. And let me tell you, there are two different models. Ask good questions if you're interviewing a therapist.
There are therapists who treat betrayal trauma and will tell you [00:23:00] that they approach it from a codependency model standpoint. And then there are therapists who will tell you, I actually focus on betrayal trauma from a trauma recovery perspective. Those are the ones you want. ~Uh, ~those are the ones that will work with you on this profound attachment wounding you've experienced and they will help you get back to who you really are.
Speaker 6: Yeah. ~I hope that~
Speaker 7: helps.
Speaker 6: I love it. We're going to link all of that in the show notes. Absolutely. And Heidi, to end these, I like to pull an Oracle card. Are you familiar with Oracle cards? Yes. So I would like your participation to choose a card on behalf of the listeners. So go ahead and close your eyes.
All right. And you and I are just going to tune into the deck as I begin to shuffle, just asking, what is the message that the listeners need to hear today? And whenever you feel like the shuffles complete, you just tell me when to stop.
Speaker 7: Stop.
Speaker 8: All [00:24:00]
Speaker 6: right. So we got balance in motion. It's a picture of a woman on a tightrope, balancing in motion.
So let me find the message in the book here and I'll read it to you. Balance in motion requires you to make some subtle shifts. Balance isn't static. Micro changes create macro changes. Start small. Feel into those tiny movements that your unconscious is calling you to make. A little more of this, a little less of that.
If you move too quickly, you'll just spaz out and overcorrect. The changes you wish to make are possible with slight adjustment. Stop searching for the perfect middle point and stay in easy motion. Soft focus. Light attention. Be aware of your next position and gently move towards the right next step.
Speaker 7: I love that.
We talked about the steps. We talked about 12 step recovery. It sounds like it. Perfect.
Speaker 6: Perfect. Yes. Thank you so much
, Heidi, for [00:25:00] being here. I appreciate you. Is there anything else that you want to tell listeners on where to find you or where to find resources?
Speaker 7: Um, yeah, you know, one, my home groups now, you asked me this earlier and I don't think I completely answered. So, again, I've been in ACA since 2004 and in March, I celebrated 14 years in, ~um, ~Sex and Lovetics Anonymous. So, ~um, ~those are two great places and they don't cost a thing ~if you're, ~if you're seeking, um, healing in that.
Um, but it's easy to find me. HeidiKingston. com is my website and, ~um. Yeah, ~I'm available if you have questions. ~And ~thank you so much for having me. This was wonderful.
Speaker 6: Yeah, it's my pleasure. My
Speaker 11: I could have continued to talk to Heidi forever. Betrayal trauma is so fascinating to me as somebody who has also survived betrayal. And I know what it's like firsthand to feel this tumultuous pull of emotion [00:26:00] between missing the person and wanting to hold them accountable and knowing you should leave, but also really loving them.
It's so challenging. So I see you. Deeply, I see you. And from this episode, I want you to remember what we talked about. So you now know why betrayal trauma overwhelms you and makes it so hard to move on. There's actually a brain and nervous system component. You know the real reason that your second guess, you know the real reason that you are second guessing yourself instead of leaving.
And you know how betrayal trauma causes lasting damage. to your body and how to begin to heal. Healing from this type of trauma is very real on a nervous system level, on a brain level, on a physiological level, on a spiritual level, emotional level. There are so many layers. So take it sweetly with yourself.
Give yourself compassion. [00:27:00] Make sure you're finding the right support of somebody who can guide you through these layers of grief and feeling. And if you haven't listened to the first part of me and Heidi's conversation, I want you to go back to the episode right before this one.
It's episode 66 and it's called How Unhealed Attachment Wounds Lead to Addictive Toxic Relationships with Heidi Dyke Kingston. Part one. I know you'll enjoy hearing more of her backstory and more of her healing through it all. And remember, this podcast is for you. You are not alone, and I will see you in the next episode.
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