So when you're planning to win, right?

if you don't have a plan, you're planning to lose.

So it doesn't mean the plan is stuck for the next five years.

It means that you're thinking about it before it happens.

So when we plan to win, we are mentally, emotionally, physically,

spiritually aware, or planning for what we wanna do next.

When you start writing stuff down and you start thinking about

things, it just speaks to you.

What does it take to lead with vision in a world that's driven by distraction?

Today's guest, Dr. Dave Jones, has gone from professional hockey rinks in

Europe to the boardrooms of thriving businesses where he now coaches elite

athletes, executives, and ministry leaders on how to win the mental game.

He's the founder of M Is Good, a marketing agency powered by Kingdom

Purpose, and the creator of the R seven Vision Framework, a powerful

model for leaders who want to align their mission with the eternal impact.

He's also the author of Vision Wins and the host of the R seven podcast.

In this episode, we're gonna explore what it means to lead with purpose, why

vision is more than a buzzword, and how spiritual and mental disciplines are

essential for high level leadership.

Dr. Dave Jones, welcome to Seat Go Create.

Oh man.

I'm so honored to be here.

Tim.

Thank you for having me.

glad you're here too.

Let's get like one little thing outta the way.

We were about to talk about this, but you've got doctor in front of your name,

but you're wearing an a superman hat.

For those that are watching us on video, some stuff that said

Super Dave, which is fascinating.

I see Doctor, I see Dave and David.

It's like, man, what, what do you go by man?

What do people call you?

Yeah, such a great question.

I, in high school I grew up as Wonder Dave 'cause I played hockey and I played pretty

good at it and that kind of fell off.

And then, you know, I have this really cool name, Dave Jones, which is the second

most popular name in the world, probably.

and so everywhere I go it's, you know, Dave Jones, who, you know,

like, which Dave Jones are you?

you?

and then I hit the CrossFit world when I was 40, and I did pretty good at that.

And so it became Super Dave.

And then, you know, I've been in rinks and a lot of rinks

and coaching a lot of different players, you know, hockey players.

And, you know, I go in the rink and it's super Dave, you know,

and so my kids call me Super Dave.

It's kind of fun to Hey, soup, what's up?

know,

You know.

So,

it just kind of stuck.

And then I've been chasing this journey for my doctorate in sport and

performance psychology for 13 years.

And on December 6th, 2024, I, defended my dissertation and now it became Dr. Dave.

Dave.

So a lot of my friends around me are like, there's no way I'm calling you Dr.

Super Dave.

Like, that's not gonna happen, you know?

So it's Super Dave, it's Dave, it's Dr. Dave.

You know, it's fun man.

Like we're having a good time with it.

I think Dr. Super could be kinda like a Marvel type,

Yeah, for sure.

like

Yeah.

Hopefully not a villain.

Hopefully a good guy.

Yeah.

You know, it's interesting.

I think you remember back when it was actually, super Dave and Super

Dave was not like a Marvel hero.

He was kind of a goofball, like

Like

it was the worst production ever and everybody loved it.

it.

So that's more about me, you know, having fun and like, you know, messing

things up, but still goofing on it.

So, you know, unfortunately there's no Super Dave Apparel out there, so I

just, I just buy the Superman stuff and

Super

call it Super Dave, so.

so this is like idle banter that somebody's gonna go, Hey, could

y'all get to the vision stuff?

But it's kind of funny, when you first came across our desk, this will

kind of tell you where my mind is.

Okay.

Super Dave initially, which I would've gone directly to Super Dave Osborne.

For those that even don't know what we're talking about, kind of an older reference,

but actually thought your name said Davey.

Oh,

Jones, man.

Wasn't that the lead singer, the monkeys?

It's

that's it.

how old I am.

There's

right.

what the heck is that guy talking about?

But it's like, man, I would love that.

That would be so cool.

But, uh, anyway, I, you, you are the man and the one I need to be speaking with.

So I've got Dr. Dave Jones here.

I think I might go by Dave, unless you correct me as we go along

That works.

you say something, I might either lean towards a doctor or super just

to emphasize what we said there.

But,

Yeah.

hey, first question I like to start with sort of related to that,

Mm-hmm.

different.

And that is, would you prefer to answer the question, what do you do?

Or who are you?

Hmm.

start answering.

Yeah, I think I'm gonna go with Who are you?

Because I feel like, yeah.

So who are you?

You know, I think that, when we have this common language that we use and,

you know, you meet somebody for the first time and they say, what do you do?

do?

You know, it's kind of a question of, you know, how do you make money?

And I feel like it's a very misleading question, and this probably drives a

lot of identity crisis in the world, this common language that we use.

And so because I've worked with so many athletes and former Christian

organizational leaders and current, you know, in this transition

period, identity's a big deal.

And so when you have performance related questions that really over

time build up that you actually think you are, you know what you do.

and the reality is, you know, we, we have problems with, I like to call

our flap our fear, lust, anger, pride.

And so when your identity's

your

in your fear, lust, anger, pride, it's how many cars do you have?

I'm president, I'm vice president, I'm a hockey player, I'm not a hockey player.

a hire.

Whereas when you identity is in Christ and it's not performance related.

Who are you becomes a, a funner question because, you know, I am a

man of God, the best of my ability.

I'm not perfect.

So let's, let's be clear about that.

that.

know, I'm a business owner, I'm a husband, I'm a dad.

I'm a coach.

this goes back to vision.

who you are is not what you do.

and so who I am, I unify excellence in the marketplace.

That's my vision.

those that have heard me talk in the past, they've heard my vision over the years.

when you point to vision, it takes away the identity side

of what you're currently doing.

We live off of peaks and valleys in our life.

Nobody's awesome all the time.

time.

And so in the valley, I believe is where the Lord wants you to glorify him.

him.

And so if our bank account has one comment in it.

it

We're feeling bad about ourselves.

It's really hard, right?

To glorify the Lord.

If our bank account has two commas or three commas in it,

in it,

you know, we feel really good and we're unstoppable.

But the reality is your identity is in your pride, not in glorifying the Lord.

the Lord.

Now, that was really heavy, really fast.

about that.

No, I like it.

I made two or three notes here that we're gonna kinda keep going

heavy because this is important.

See, I think what we're doing is we're just, I always say we're diving

into the deep end of the pool, but we're going to some core stuff.

away.

And we're gonna get to in a little while.

I've gotten through a good portion of your book, vision Wins, seven Strategies

for Mental Toughness in Life, in Sports.

And I wanna tell you, Dave, that I don't hear the word

mental toughness much anymore.

And that, so we're gonna talk about that in just a second.

but, so mental toughness is a topic I wanna talk about how it relates to

vision and mission and things like that, especially within the R seven framework.

But you brought up something to me that is at times a word,

that's what I call christianese.

it's language that we use in the or followers of Jesus world that

maybe someone who's not in that world doesn't know what we mean.

And you mention that you are who you are, your identity is in

and.

I believe that I know what that is 'cause I've been living

that life for a while and I

Yeah.

truthfully I went to Bible school for a couple years, I don't think a

lot of people know what that means.

Mm-hmm.

I think one of the first things I'm gonna do, and this is again, more deep question,

Mm-hmm.

why don't you explain in your words,

Let's start with what It's not right?

It's not your bank account, it's not your cars.

It's not, forgive me, but how hot your wife is, or how skinny your wife is,

know,

how long you've been married.

You know, like these are kind of the worldly triggers with living in a, living

a life of Christ to me, but it means that you're, you're a follower of Jesus, that

you're reading the Bible, that you're praying daily, that you're trying to

do what's right by the word of God, not what's right by whatever the wind is

blowing in today's political or, you know, or in sporting environment, you know, and

so it's, it's doing your best that you can to live a life according to Christ.

That's what that means.

So I follow the Bible.

I'm very open about, I am a right wing Bible toting, gun carrying Christian,

and I glorify the Lord in everything I do, whether it's, you know, and some

days are, I would say that some days are

days are

better than others, honestly.

But I'm always going back to what do the scripture say?

How do I react to this?

I think, you know, having the fruits of the spirit are important,

you know, as kind of a checklist.

So, love, peace, patience, self-control, you know, this is what it means to, for

according to the way I see the world, which is not always right all the time,

but, you know, it's following Jesus.

Yeah.

Have you always been that way?

I have not been all this way.

I, I didn't, I grew up,

up,

I grew up playing hockey.

I won a state championship early on in my high school career.

I got really drunk.

my brother who was going to Moody Bible Institute was, came

home the next day after my,

my,

you know,

know,

after I was trying to recuperate.

And I was just,

just,

you know,

know,

on the bed and just out for the day.

And my brother came and said, Hey, do you wanna live a life like this?

And I'm like, no.

And he's like, do you want to see Jesus as your Lord and Savior?

I'm like, yes.

I want something more than this.

I was 16 when that happened.

I went on to play juniors in pro in Europe, and it wasn't until probably

my second or third year in Europe where I was like, you know what?

I was 22.

I,

I,

I had met a woman that, you know, that

that.

we basically, who's my wife now of 25 years, said, you know what?

Let's do a better job of living a life of Christ and try to

follow him and read and pray.

And,

And,

that's when it all began.

So that seed was in there.

It just took a while to get out.

and even then, you know, my journey is,

is,

25, 26, you know, it was still like, I just didn't like myself at all.

So I had to turn off the tv.

I had a mentor come in my life and say, read these books for the next two years.

And I did.

Hmm.

So what's interesting is that it sounds as if.

It's, you know, you started off, you were talking about the valleys and,

but it sounds to me like winning a state championship when one is

probably identifying as a hockey player during that stage of your life.

I think you identified as a hockey player probably, and you reached the pinnacle

the next day there was a door that was open that was, we'll call it the seed.

And there may have been

Mm-hmm.

that, but talk about that.

'cause I know you deal with a lot of athletes and all.

We might be getting into some of that shortly, but talk about with

you personally, what it was like to be at, I mean, there was probably

nothing higher that you could have done at that stage than win that

championship in that sport, correct?

Yeah, that's correct.

I mean, I was 15, 16 years old and a freshman in high school.

So, you know, winning a state championship in a state that wasn't known for

winning championships was a big deal.

It was a town of

of

16,000 people.

And, you know, the whole town came out

I,

I was a, you know, a celebrity at that point.

And we had, we had, climbed the summit.

We had done it, we were on the peak.

And, I don't know, I think I was probably too young to

understand what all that meant.

It was just celebrate and drink some vodka and orange juice, you know,

you know,

looking back on it, it was definitely, you know, God working in my life.

And so I think there's, you know, looking back on it again, I think

there's bigger pinnacles, you know, and I've studied 'em all from the Super

Bowl to the Stanley Cup to, you know,

know,

MLS, you know, on a world stage, which is much more difficult to navigate than a

15-year-old winning a state championship.

So would you have, looking back now, especially, this

is a good question to ask.

Would you have said you were mentally tough that age, and if you

were, what did that look like then?

And if you weren't, I guess kind of grade your mental toughness at that point.

Oh man, I was weak.

I was fragile.

I was not tough at all.

No way.

I don't even, I mean, it was probably 45 I think, before I really probably knew what

mental toughness was and how to use it

it.

honestly.

Honestly, but,

Um,

well with what we'll call it.

This is where I'm gonna start maybe

yeah.

the barriers between how I define in Christ or in the world.

Okay.

this is where I'm going here, is that you were doing things that were leading

to success in that world system, but yet something was lacking that was drawing you

into, we'll call that the Kingdom of God

Yeah.

So, and that was in the twenties, and a lot of people go through

it, a lot of people go through it later in a life, whatever.

And I think it's all a journey that we go through.

but I mean, you were doing well in that world system, correct?

I probably, you know, probably just felt like there was, that's it.

It's gotta be something more.

It's interesting when you turn to drugs and alcohol, isn't it like to

release the pressure or the stress?

You, you feel like that's the way to do it, to let go?

people do it all the time.

In fact, I like to say like fans being a fanatic of a sport, you

know, is an acceptable way of,

of,

of deflecting the real issues.

You know, we socially accept that, hardcore drugs, we

don't obviously, you know?

Yeah.

And we, in my world, one of the things that's acceptable in the

business world, you're operating in the business world now too,

Mm-hmm.

is that it's acceptable to be addicted to what I call more.

Yeah.

not a drug or anything, it's just more, I need to make more money.

Mm-hmm.

expand my business, I need to make more, whatever I need to work more hours.

And that addiction is what I've battled.

That's part of my journey.

it is rewarding in that world system, but it's not in the

kingdom, kingdom of God's system.

And so I That's interesting.

Now, one of the things, this is one of the reasons I was drawn to you,

Okay.

let me go ahead and kinda get maybe a controversial type topic out.

I love sports.

I really, really do.

So I wanna preface this next statement and what it's gonna lead to.

Questions with, I do love sports.

However, I do wonder in our culture and society if we are elevating

sport almost idle status in

Mm-hmm.

And it's one of the reasons why I want to talk to someone who,

obviously sports is your world.

You work with people in that arena.

You also work with people that have great ministries in

Yes.

And so if I say something like, Hey, I believe that sports and

especially the way we're doing it now, to be like we're building a lot

of idols, respond to that statement.

There's so much there to unpack, honestly.

I'll just take in the direction you tell me if you wanna go a different way.

I, I think the athletes I work with, they don't ask for that at idle.

So I think.

we're all trying to become the best version of ourselves, whether

we believe in Jesus or not.

Like we wanna see how far we can go, whether it's your average golfer,

whether it's your, I'll use hockey 'cause I'm familiar with that.

Like, whether you're.

16-year-old triple A or double a player or college or pro, you're just

trying to see how far you can go.

And some guys go farther and gals go farther than they ever dreamed of.

And so people want that.

they want to know, like I use Tiger Woods as an example.

Most of us can relate to that.

Like how did he do that?

I mean, it's so incredible of how he did that.

And so we're just attracted to that excellence, that peak performance.

We want it, we wanna duplicate it.

And it's probably in that lustful side for sure.

Imagine if we had that same kind of lust for Jesus, right?

That same kind of like, I want to emulate what he did, and we know

the Satan's there to kill, steal, and destroy and provide confusion.

And so why not deflect us back to sport, to man, it's a failing system.

I think the athletes that I work with, they're not really

like asking for the idle side.

They're just chasing it.

it.

and we in some level, we wanna know how to do that and, you know, what

are the triggers or the bad habits that, I have in my life that I can get

rid of so I can be a peak performer?

Yeah.

think inherently, whether you believe in God or not, there's

something about the human wanting to be better and wanting to live.

the,

I had the real unfortunate opportunity of, you know, a couple

years ago watching my dad die.

You know, he had lung cancer and he was 80 years old.

And.

He had smoked for 40 years.

He had stopped for 20 years, but it came back and, you know, he got diagnosed

in November and then he died in April.

And it was really interesting to me, like very emotional.

Lots of grief still going on today, but how when I, when I just watched

that, 'cause you went all over to hospice and like for those that are

not familiar with hospice, like it's a place where you go to die, you know,

they basically turn it off and make it a comfortable transition for you.

And it just really kind of blew my mind how much the body wants to survive and

how much the body can survive on nothing.

And so, like in all animals that God's created it, it has a survival side of it.

And I think we want to do more than that.

You know, we want, we wanna push the envelope.

Yeah.

And, and I love the word he used excellence.

my dad passed a few years ago too,

Hmm.

cognitive issues and kinda watched it also.

It's kinda like, and you know, we look at him cognitively, physically, he

seemed kind of strong and, and it was almost like, you know, we were saying.

How can he keep going and, but yet my, my wife's mother's that way.

her body has been rough for going on 30 years now.

But she's still bad.

Hanging around.

Yeah.

around.

crazy, right?

I'm, I can't believe how strong in that will to live,

Yeah.

is what we're talking about.

I wanna circle back to that more thing related to sports and,

Mm-hmm.

and I guess it's the.

The pressure that culture and society is putting on it.

and I just this morning read, a quick blurb about a five star quarterback

high school kid that was being recruited by Oregon and University of Georgia.

I'm originally from Georgia.

I'm not a Georgia fan.

I wanna be real clear about that.

I went to Georgia Tech, but I'm just sitting here thinking about this kid.

He committed Decommitted and now they've got all the NIL money and

Mm-hmm.

you know, they've got big time stuff that's always been around.

Now it's kind of out in the open just sitting here thinking

about 17, 18, 19-year-old.

I hate to call 'em kids.

That sounds, you know, kind of downplay.

But what happens with mental toughness

Yeah.

all of that, all that kind of stuff's being dangled at you and you've got grown

men telling you how awesome you are.

And I was, the reason I kind of was thinking about it, Dave, is that they,

they, they commented in this article then in the last two days while he

was making this flipping decision, he went from one to the other, of

the offensive coordinators and maybe even the head coaches had come to his

place, sat in his living room, and we're pitching and recruiting this kid.

Sorry.

But, I mean, h how are we dealing with all that stuff just from a mental standpoint?

And I mean, business people are too, and people in ministry and all that,

but boy, we're throwing a lot of stuff at some of these young athletes.

For sure.

and I have a really kind of strong definition of mental toughness.

I'll just tell you what it is.

So it's playing or performing.

So in business world you're performing, obviously in sport, you're playing,

playing or performing at the upper ranges of your ability consistently

under pressure in the biggest moments.

That's mental toughness.

So what I'd love to also say is sports is a Petri dish of emotions.

So once pressure happens, that's where we see where you're at.

at.

So like when I watch games now, I don't really watch for the X's and O's.

I watch for the pressure, see it come in and then watch the

players and how they deal with it.

That's how you know if somebody's strong or not.

not,

It's super easy to watch and fun to watch.

And so then we, and then I call that low ei.

low E

So when they're mentally weak, they have low emotional intelligence.

So when you have low emotional intelligence, it's all about you, you

know, you complain, you blame others.

You're in what's called a weak channel.

all you can think about is the emotion, what this person did to me.

Your team, mindset goes out the window.

you're focused on winning, not on the process.

There's a whole lot of things that happens when you're low

eye, when you're mentally weak.

And so, same thing with performance.

Like when you're talking about organizations and organizational

leaders, everything's fine when you're in your office by yourself.

But once you get around employees and now maybe there's not as much money in

the account or somebody says something to you that you don't like, the pressure

happens and now we see what's inside.

It's interesting, you know, I, I just had an example.

Come to mind, that's sort of recent and I'll, I'll bring it up and let

you either comment on it or I'd love if you've got a recent example

a sport example where that'll kind of put a timestamp on this episode.

But I don't care.

I don't watch a lot of sports or anything anymore because I realized

I could actually get addicted

Mm-hmm.

the watching of it, you know what I mean?

Yep.

business like yours.

So, you know, but I did catch the last hour-ish or so of the

Masters, about a month ago with

Yep.

McElroy and I, we had a place not far from Augusta, Georgia for the longest

in a golf mecca and things like that.

And I believe that may be an example of what you're talking about.

can you speak to that?

Yeah, I can.

And in fact, I've studied him,

him.

I've studied Rory.

Rory.

So this is the difference between process thinking and outcome thinking.

So when you outcome think it's all about winning.

Like he's had that on his shoulders of winning the masters for a long time.

And

winning, winning, winning.

And so when

so

comes down to that 18th whole putt, and it's a three foot putt, you know,

if you're not, and who knows what he is thinking, I'm obviously speculating

here, but he missed the putt.

So, and made those putts.

putts

A lot.

Uh, it's hard to say how many, but a lot.

And so when you're always thinking about the outcome, it's a sign of weak thinking.

You know, you're not into power channel.

And so when you're process thinking, you're thinking about the mechanics,

you're thinking about the details, you're not thinking about the winning, you're

not thinking about the score, you're thinking about what's in the moment.

And we've seen players like Michael Jordan, Wayne Gretzky, Mary Lou

Lou

Mu,

Mu,

Crosby, like, you know, all these players play in the moment.

that's what elite performers do.

they, they're able to just have tunnel vision

vision

they're dealing with right now, you know, so it's playing at the upper

range of ability, consistently under pressure in the biggest moment.

So they're able to do that, and they train for that.

that.

Right.

Yeah.

I, I want to go a little bit deeper on that, 'cause I had a thought just to.

Bring the audience that may not be that have seen it.

Rory had the opportunity for what's called a career grand slam, where you win the

four top majors in golf, the masters.

I think he had had opportunities for 11 years or something like that ' cause he

Mm-hmm.

three at a very young age and he still has a lot of age.

But that stuff starts creeping up on you a little bit.

And he was leading by one stroke, I believe.

No, he could have on the 18th hole making a short putt.

He would've won it and he missed the putt.

So therefore it was gonna go into a playoff.

what I would love to do, and I know this is speculative, but I would

love to tap into a bit of a sports psychology, mental toughness example

that's real world in recent for me.

I'd love for you to talk to me a little bit about what you think.

Was going through his mind he missed the putt.

It's going to a playoff, there's probably 20 minutes or so that they've gotta go

back to the tee box of 18 and they're going to tee off and play the hole again.

And it's, it's sudden death for those that might be familiar.

You know, it's like whoever gets the lowest score, first

in the playoff holes wins.

And, to finish the story so people aren't on the edge of their seat.

He did, I believe he birdied and the other guy part.

I can't remember the other name though.

But can you, in your mind,

Tim Scott.

know

Scott.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So you got the facts right?

But I mean, in your mind, what do you think mentally he was doing in that

time between missing the putt and going back to that tee box at the 18th hole?

Yeah.

So let's go back to the first time he played the 18.

You know, he shanks his shot, right?

And then he, he hits a good tee shot, but his second shot's in the bunker,

and then he is gotta come out of the bunker and he comes out with like

a 10 foot putt and he misses it,

it,

which forces the overtime.

So the 20 minutes where he's like having to go sign his card and go, I

think he's reflecting on everything that happened the first time.

And I think he's probably, if there was a coach there is in

his ear saying, just relax man.

Just go have fun, right?

'cause he was so stressed and you could tell he was stressed and tense in that

second shot when he hit it in the bunker.

He was just thinking about winning, winning, winning.

Whereas now as he comes back and he hit a great tee shot, his second

shot is within like eight feet.

Right?

and like, so it's, it's like he's in his groove and so it was all that

stress that he was able to let go and realize, okay, I can't play this way.

just have fun and, and just play golf.

Yeah.

and I think that, applies to.

Other parts of our lives.

It may not be as narrow of a focus within just a few minutes that

we've seen, but him arriving, there wasn't a few minutes either.

That was a much, much

Oh yeah.

journey, and that gives me a great opening.

That's a good segue here.

We talked about, you know, your hockey career early on and you went over to

Europe and played some, and then you found Christ, around your early to mid twenties.

Bring us up to where we are now, but I'd love for you to give me a couple

of the peaks and valleys between that time and where you are now.

And then we're gonna move into talking about R seven and some of the

things you're doing with M is good.

I want to ask you a couple things about the book, but just give us a

couple of the journey ups and downs along the way before we do that.

Yeah.

such great questions, man.

There's so many ups and downs in there.

I would say, I got a slap shot in the face, broke my nose in three

different directions, cut the nerve and my teeth in my mouth.

Deviated septum.

Oh, you mean literally got a slap shot in your face?

I thought you were talking about old life just brought No, you

literally got a slap shot in your

I got, I got puck in the face in Kalamazoo K Wing stadium.

And so, I had three yards of

of

Each nostril, there were tubes in my nose and I couldn't breathe outta the

tubes 'cause it got all clogged up,

up,

because of mucus.

And so I had to breathe outta my mouth.

You know, the next two weeks my tongue is cracking and bleeding at night.

And, that was a low, that was one of the first times I got on my knees.

I said, Lord, what do you want from me?

Because this is not like, I didn't know how to pray.

I was 21 years old.

I didn't pray.

I wasn't really reading the Bible.

I just knew I needed to go to a source, you know, and the source that

had never really failed me was God.

So I just said, you know what, God, what, what do you want me to do with my life?

This, this sucks.

Like, this is terrible.

And so I ended up going overseas and playing and, you

know, that was a good career.

I ended up, you know, playing there for four years and then, and then coming back.

I started my company when I was 28 and.

Again, I was, I was just, I had taken a sales job with a Fox tv and

and

I really didn't like it.

And so I went back to prayer.

I said, Lord, what do you want me to do?

And,

And, I found myself staring at a list of all the Christian organizations on

the TV station, and I thought, I'll just start an ad and see, what do I call it?

it?

And the Lord gave me marketing ministries.

And I, it wasn't like an audible voice.

I was just like, marketing ministries, that sounds cool.

like,

could that be it?

So I, I didn't know what I was doing.

I got a lawyer and, he said, yeah, marketing ministries available.

And I was like, oh, that's cool that name will work.

I thought it was kind of a dumb name.

And I'm like, all right, Lauren, you're not so dumb after all.

all.

And so I began to start my company and out of that list, I went to that

list after I left and I said, Hey, I'm going to, or before I left, I

said, I'm gonna start an agency.

What?

You know, will you follow me?

And, and out of the 21 on the list, I said, yeah, we'll follow you.

you

We're in.

in.

And so, that was like in a November timeframe.

In January.

I actually went back to him in 18.

Out of the 21 said, we're not with you.

That

That was a low, so the first year, I think we invoiced $15,000 that year.

Um, and I made 15% commission from that 15,000.

So that was, that was bad.

The second year was like 30,000.

That was bad.

Third, third year was like 200,000.

Still not good.

15% of 200,000 is $30,000 a year.

You know, I'm not setting the word on fire.

And so at this point, my faith is being challenged.

Um, you know, but I, I just, I guess I just knew that something

good was gonna keep going.

Like, come something good was gonna come out of, I kept going.

So I just never really looked back.

I just stepped out on faith and just push, push.

Pushed.

The fourth year we billed $800,000

and the fifth year it just never, I just never looked back.

I'm on my 24th year now.

year now.

Yeah.

during that time though, I'm just curious before we move on, did you,

and I love when we talk about, you know, just had faith to keep going.

You know, when you're, when you're getting 15% of what people can't, 15%

of what people can't live off of anyway.

And uh, I'm sure you were probably, you know, if you didn't have family

or anything at that point, even if you're single, that's probably tough.

Any considerations of, did you hear the lord, did I make a mistake?

Do I need to go do something else?

Do I need to just go get a job?

Do I need to do something different?

Any of that, we'll call it doubt creeping in, but sometimes it's

just the process of going through the different options and all.

And I'm not sure that it's always entirely bad, but any of

that going on during that time,

Tim, all of that's going on.

The doubt, the fear, the anxiety, the stress.

Are you sure?

Are you not sure?

you talked about common Christian language.

I call that obligatory religious phraseology.

You know, it's like we say this stuff and nobody knows what

that means, and like we go Okay.

know,

I had that.

and neither do we often,

Exactly, exactly.

Like I had some of that around me, but I just, I don't know, man.

I had this intuition.

I'm just gonna keep going

And

and I do, I just don't resonate with the idea that God can steer a parked car.

Like I just don't sign up for that camp.

Could God steer a parked car?

Well, God could do anything, but can God really steer a parked car?

Like if you're sitting around and going, okay, God, it's just gonna happen.

You know, because it's just gonna happen.

It's gonna be your will.

I just don't think God works that way.

Like you gotta go after it.

You gotta open the door.

So, Tim, I've always had this kind of

of

idea of a hallway, and the hallway has as many doors as you can see in this hallway.

It's probably.

50 to a hundred feet long, and You gotta open the doors.

You gotta physically walk down the hallway and open the door and

go, that's not the door for me.

Or this is the door for me.

I'm gonna see what, let's open, let's go explore.

know,

like, you gotta move, you know?

is,

you know what, I'm not the most talented guy in the room.

I'm probably not the smartest guy in the room, but I will

come early and I will stay late.

I can do that, right?

I can think about it 16 times and get it wrong, and then come back the seventh

and eighth time and get it right.

Yeah, I like that parked car analogy.

The thought that came to my mind when you were bringing it up is, yeah, God

could move a parked car, but why would he create a car and not expect someone

to start the engine and actually move it?

That

Come on.

at all.

That's right.

yeah, he could pick the car up, he could rain down, fire on it

and disintegrate it, whatever.

All that's fine.

Yeah,

go through the effort of creating that car if you don't expect it to move?

said earlier, Dave, that you believe that in the valleys is when

we glorify And you've mentioned a few valleys along the way.

you, sort of a trick question here.

Do you believe in looking back, you were glorifying God or were you in

the process of attempting, or what would you say about yourself during

your valleys looking back on them,

man, these are questions I've never been asked before, so I, I love this.

This is great.

I think on a scale one to 10, you know, 10 being the best, I've probably done a six

on like, glorifying the Lord, you know?

I've always kept it in front of me.

me,

But, there's always that time like, oh my gosh, how do I glorify the Lord here?

You know, like, this is too tough.

I remember this is a really cool story.

I remember back in 2010, the market had

had

took a serious dip in 2008.

We didn't feel it, but we fell in 2010.

And, you know, at the time we were doing a lot of media buying and, I just

didn't have a whole lot of cash flow.

And so, one of the,

the,

media companies called and said, you know, you're not on 90 day terms anymore.

You're on three day terms.

We need $50,000.

This is on a Wednesday.

And I'm driving from Dallas, Texas to San Antonio in a 12

passenger van because I forgot to

to

set up the rental car.

And the only thing they had was a 12 passenger van.

And I get a call and they say, Hey, we're turning off your terms on Friday.

It's a Wednesday, we need $50,000.

I called one of my mentors and I said, Hey man, can I borrow $50,000?

I'll pay you.

I promise I'll pay you back.

And, and Tim, he laughed at me.

He just laughed at me.

He said, Davy, this is where you're gonna trust the Lord.

Everything's gonna turn out all right.

You know, I'm not giving you $50,000.

Glorify the Lord.

And I was like, oh my.

Come on Jerry, please.

Just, I just need the 50 K. And it was, that was one of

the biggest, I was so scared.

You know how you have like anxiety, but then like the somatic anxiety where

your heart rate and your sweating and you're like, you just uncontrollable.

It's like drinking too much caffeine.

Like, I had this for about a day.

I'm like, I'm gonna be shut down.

And so, that was a valley and I learned a hard lesson there and I was like, okay,

I will go, you know, it all worked out.

I ended up working out terms with them, ended up making payment plans,

and I figured it out, you know, and,

But yeah, that was one of the times where I turned to somebody wealthy who

could help me, and they told me no.

no.

and that was probably one of the best things that could have

Best things.

Yeah.

so you got a hockey puck to the face again, proverbial not a actual Yeah.

anyway, that's, that's interesting.

The cool thing that just came to mind is like, you gave yourself a

six, outta 10, and probably a lot of us, we could say, yes, I need to

glorify the Lord I'm in those valleys.

Yeah, and if I look back, I would probably be generous to give myself a six.

You know, I

Mm.

I think detrimental, but I was whining a lot more.

After oh eight was when a lot of our financial issues were too.

Mm-hmm.

years after that we were homeless and bankrupt and you know,

all kind of things went on.

Looking back, it was a great thing.

In the midst of it, not so great.

that's where God's grace comes in.

That's why, I mean, that's why there's, there's multiple things going on here.

Yes.

I think ideally it would be awesome if we are at a 98%

glorifying and on, oh Lord, yes.

You were so awesome.

But man, I was whining.

I was

Yeah.

and so that's where his grace kicks in and he kind of says, okay, we're good here.

so now catch me up and tell me all that you're working on now.

'cause at some point you started moving into, I'll call it coaching, I

guess now you're technically a sports psychologist, but you're working with,

you know, athletes and people like that.

You're also still, I think, have the marketing company.

We're gonna bring up the book in just a moment, but we, when did

all that start to come into play?

it's honestly been a journey, lifelong journey.

So, you know, m as good is 24 years old.

We've got 38 to 41 clients we manage on a weekly basis.

Our vertical is Christian organizations, so we work on their

on their

messaging and their KPI management.

Uh, I just been, um, I just been pushing hard on.

Psychology.

You know, I kind of believe that, psychology, study of human

behavior, sports psychology, study of human behavior within sport.

And so I just got attracted to, behavior and, you know, not the idea of psychology.

'cause it comes from a very, you know, dark place.

but just that study and how we read things, how we react to things, it

plays well with them as good because, I'm as good as about messaging to

a certain audience or audiences throughout all the demographics

we have with different clients.

And

And so, I just chase that and, you know, just chase, I'm not really like a big

title guy as we've discussed before.

But,

I wanted a path to study psychology and I looked at, the academic

world to gimme that path.

And I chased it all the way to the terminal degree.

Which happens to be sport and performance psychology.

And so it's just really been, me chasing that in the marketing side of things.

then

the coaching, the executive coaching, I, you know, I, I was a chairman of the board

with FCA hockey fellowship, Christian Athletes Hockey for about 10 years.

And so some players had asked me, Hey, can we chat?

And said, sure.

and so, that's just ballooned into something a lot of fun

for me to talk to different,

from the NHL down every week on their performance and their ability.

and how they chase peak performance with the idea of,

you know, Christ as their center.

So, yeah.

So if, if someone told you, you could kind of only do one of those things, you

had to peel some things away, which one?

This is a, this is one of these trick questions that

Yeah.

Which one is nourishing your soul the most right now, Dave?

Oh, it's such a great question, and I think, I don't really sep, I,

I,

I don't really look at 'em as two, honestly.

I, and it kind of goes back to how I vet different clients that come into

our organization or come into 'em as good as, as a potential client.

I usually tell 'em, listen, we don't discriminate based upon budget.

know,

ministry's too small, no ministry's too big.

This is about how do we create messaging?

How do we get your identity right so that we can attract more people to the Lord?

That's what it is there.

There's a vision side of you

you

that wants to come out because that's who you're created to be.

be.

And so if I can help you with that, I'm excited to be on that journey with you.

you.

And so it's not the sport.

Or, you know, the player or the organizational leader, to me, they're one

and the same because they're both created in the image of God to glorify him.

Honestly, I just don't,

don't,

I don't have a weight one way or the other.

like,

I prayed Tim, that,

that,

that I would be used by God.

That was my prayer.

And you know what came back?

Are you usable?

I was like, Lord, use me.

And I just, I just felt like, am I usable?

I don't know that I'm usable.

I need to be usable by God if I'm gonna ask that question.

Right?

Like,

please use me, Lord, for your, for to help other people become peak performers

in your economy, not the worlds.

And so, I had a checkup from the neck up when I said, okay, I need to be usable.

Right?

And that's where this flap thing came, came from.

Fear, less anger, pride.

I need to get rid of some of this stuff.

Although we are all dealing with,

with,

you know, two of those at any given moment.

moment.

We just become better.

That's the other thing I feel that I need to say in this podcast that I just

want to come clear, is that, you know, being a Christian is not being perfect.

You know, the difference between a religion and a relationship

is totally different.

Like here, say, oh, you're religious.

I'm not religious at all.

at

I have a relationship with my Heavenly Father.

And that's a relationship that sometimes I'm not very good at chasing him and

listening to the Holy Spirit, you know?

know?

so

so I just wanna be clear that it's just about a relationship and it's

about, doing the best that you can.

that's another cool definition that I have.

excellence.

I.

Excellence is doing the best that you can with the current resources

available to you in this moment.

Yeah.

I like, I like the in this moment and I like the word resources.

Yeah.

to throw in money or talent or different things like that, but just

resources and I think that allows everyone to sort of relate to it.

Yeah.

thing that you brought up.

The, the US be to be usable.

As you were saying that I was kind of asking, I was

kind of thinking to myself, I

Yeah,

I was with you.

yeah.

to myself, huh, am I usable?

And I realized that over the course of my life.

I am usable, but I attach conditions to it.

Hmm.

attach conditions, especially those of us that are in what we call this

first world, incredibly comfortable.

We're sitting here, I'm in an rv, but still, you know, we're in roof

over our heads, things like that.

I think there is some conditions, but I think it's part of a, a process where

those conditions start to fall away.

Or at least I hope they do.

And you probably have seen that on your journey, I guess too, is that,

you know, we talk about usability at one stage in our life and you know,

you start off early on as a Christian, you go, ah, that probably means I'm

gonna go to Africa, be a missionary.

I'm gonna be living in a hut.

Anyway.

but the usability is for that car that God created that's sitting there for it to be

used in the way that he created to, for that engine to get started and get going.

And, you know, there are Ferraris, there's trucks, there's whatever.

We could go down that analogy, anyway, I I, there's so many

places that we could go here, Dave.

Can I speak to that just for a second?

what you had just brought up, I, I, I, I love the, you know, like you're

in a rv, you know, being usable.

I kind of look at your walk with Christ as almost like a US diplomat.

You know, when you're a diplomat, no matter where your

feet land, you're on US soil.

And so, like, as a Christian, no matter where you're at,

you're an ambassador for Christ.

It doesn't matter what you're doing.

And so, you know, that brings in the integrity, the honesty, the fruits of

the spirit, love, peace, patient self control, no matter where you're at.

You don't have to be in the four walls of a traditional building to be a Christian.

Going to church doesn't make you a Christian.

And so it's where we're at.

It's our involvement every day is how we glorify him.

Right?

Like except for the grace of God, there go I and believing that, that you know, that,

that you're an ambassador for Christ.

You know, there's so much accountability there.

And

And,

when we talk, I love Ephesians six 'cause it's talking about the armor of God.

like, I'm going into battle man, like I'm battle ready.

I'm ready, Lord.

Send it.

and let me see how mentally tough I am as I walk through these

minefields of these peaks and valleys.

Yeah.

Spoken like a true hockey player.

I'm sure you're wanting to suit up and ready, go into battle, and

Yeah.

Hey, hey Dave.

A lot of people, especially people listening in would go, oh man, it would

be so awesome to only work with Christian

Hmm.

businesses within marketing and things like that.

This is the way my mind works.

Yeah.

I know it's not always awesome.

there's some issues with Christian businesses, especially when you start

trying to help them with their messaging

Yes,

getting the word out.

Tell me what some of the cons are some of the issues and challenges with

working with Christian businesses.

Do not throw any of your clients under the bus or

sure.

not gonna do that

Yeah.

what are some things you have to deal with there that may not be so awesome?

Well, first of all, there's never any money

that's a problem.

know.

know, my experience is a lot of Christians want it cheap.

You know, they want it for nothing.

They want free advice.

They want free this, free that.

Like, I've turned away so many clients that's that like, you know,

know,

this is one of my favorite words.

Hey, we wanna partner with you.

with you.

And so this partnership has really got me on edge.

You know, it's like, okay, let me just be clear.

Are we really partners because partners share and they go back and forth?

Or is this code for, I want to use your payroll for my vision,

because

because that's normally what it is.

Yeah, I'll give you the idea, but you run with it.

it.

And so I've tackled that.

I can't be more fired up about your vision than you.

you.

so I would say, having a budget coming in is usually been rough in my experience.

I'll also say that there's,

like

when we were talking about earlier, you know, this idea that, you know,

know,

the guy can stare apart car, you know, there's so many times where like we

just lean on the Lord and that's it.

it.

So the hustle, the come early, the stay late, you know, it's typically not there.

and so they want things cheap and they want things done, you know, where

somebody else does the work for them.

That doesn't work.

I would also say that breaking the mindset, which I think I've done a

pretty good job over the years of obligatory religious phraseology.

it is bad.

discipleship, hope, grace, these are all words that we really don't understand.

I'm even sure I understand.

I just know that the way we're positioning it within the

Christian community doesn't work.

We don't know what they are and certainly the audience we're

trying to attract to doesn't Yeah.

Yeah.

So, man, that was also good.

I'm so glad I asked that question.

Got me all fired up.

fired up.

Yeah.

No, man.

Uh, man, that'd be like a whole episode right there.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Um, because it brought me back to a conversation I had in Bible school where,

uh, I've always been a business guy.

I was saved in a business setting.

So I, business is the way my mind is wired.

I'm not saying that's always good, it's just the way I'm wired.

And so the whole, I'll call it the religion structure.

Notice I didn't say the kingdom of God.

I said the religion structure isn't really my language and my place because of a

lot of the stuff you just brought up.

But I remember having a conversation with another business guy at Bible school,

and there was this great business idea that someone had, and we said, man,

this would be great for missionaries if they could do it, they could make money.

They wouldn't have to come back and beg every time they come to the United States.

And he said, Tim, he goes, I gotta be honest with you, we've talked

to some missionaries about it.

And he goes, and they're lazy.

Yeah.

They're not willing to work.

And I went, man.

I don't like hearing that.

And that, and that's something that we've had conversations here on the

show often, and I love the fact that you are functioning and operating in the

marketplace and you're probably forcing these conversations about mission,

vision, mental toughness, excellence, all the words that we've been talking

about somewhere along the way that led to a book, I've got it here, it's on my

Yeah.

called Vision Wins.

Yeah, let's go.

Seven Strategies for Mental Toughness.

That's why I said, okay, mental toughness is good in life sports,

and tell me a little bit about what brought you to, to write this.

And then I've got some comments and a few questions about the book.

Just in the, I'm at 30.

I'm at 40%

Okay.

the book

All right.

I'm in the middle of Elliot and Kelly's story, and this

Oh, awesome.

in.

So, and I've seen the word Zamboni a few times, which for a guy from

Georgia, I love to be able to say it.

I'm pretty confident that over 300 plus episodes, it's the first

time Zamboni has been said on the

Oh my gosh.

podcast.

So tell me about Vision Wins.

Yeah.

So years ago, I'm a big fan of John Gordon.

if you read any of his books, I just love how he writes fables.

And, I had the opportunity to carry his luggage to a meeting once.

it was through an FCA event and I was his chaperone, making

sure he was taken care of.

I had some time with him and I just asked him, how do you write a book?

And he told me,

me,

and, he told me the process.

so I sort of said, you know, someday I'm gonna write a book and

that's exactly how I want to do it.

So I wanted to be a fable.

I didn't want to be like the seven strategies for, you know, methyl

toughness and just seven strategies I wanted tell a story around it.

it.

So it took me a couple years to build out the characters.

And I had this, I have this huge mind map of Kelly and Elliot's,

you know, their genealogy.

And I just started building out the characters and one of John's, the

way John writes books is like, he just does his life and he's like,

Ooh, this would be a cool setting.

And so like he puts that down, this is the setting.

And so I had been in Edina, Minnesota with my son playing pond

hockey, and I'm looking around, I'm like, oh my gosh, mini haha.

Like this would be such a cool street name, you know?

And so like, and, and you know, the Edina, you know, we're playing, what

they call it, the ODR Outdoor Rink there.

And it was like on this pond in the middle.

It was awesome.

Like this is my setting.

So it's, it's an Edina in Minnesota and Kelly and Elliot, you know, they

go through this venture together of, You know how they're trying to be the

best version of themselves, you know?

and so they have a mentor named jj, and JJ walks him through the, the seven, R seven.

And he happens to be the Zamboni driver.

Actually, he reminds me a lot like you, Tim, like, corporate guy, kind of

doing something different, totally out of the blue of, what you would expect.

so JJ goes to be a Zamboni driver, like no one expect him to do that 'cause he

is a high paid consultant executive, but he's got this R seven inside of him.

And so he basically, pulls Colleen Elliot aside and kind of gives them

parts of the R seven throughout their experience at the hockey rink.

Yeah, it's, the part that I've gotten to is good storytelling

I love the, fable parable.

Yeah.

I call it fiction with a mission type storytelling.

That's what I did with the novel that I wrote a few years ago.

I had some characters in my novel that people would ask me questions.

They said Is, is Cooper you or is asa you?

And all of that.

And, and not gonna give the answer, but I'm gonna ask you the question.

You've got young male hockey player, you've got Kelly, who's female and

things there, and then you've got jj I'm sitting here as I'm reading it,

trying to guess this person I'm about to interview Dave Wonder which one

Yeah.

him.

So I'll ask you that.

Which one, which one is more you?

Yeah.

So I think,

you there.

yeah, so like you and I have the same mind, man.

Like I definitely wanted each one of those characters in the book to reflect

somebody or a conglomerate of somebody.

So I am JJ in the book.

Yeah.

Yeah, I figured that.

And so,

Yeah.

so there, they're moving down a path.

As I'm reading, it's gonna reveal this.

R seven.

I am just getting to the beginning, but starts with vision and mission.

We only have a couple minutes here, but give as, as much of an overview as you

can about R seven, in just a, you know, a minute or a few seconds here so that

people can get a glimpse of what they will learn when they get a copy of the book.

Yeah.

So, R seven.

I'll shorten as much as I can.

I got hit with a prophecy in Germany in 2008, and the prophecy was R

seven and for the next three to five years, Tim, you'll love this.

these mentors showed up in my life and just

It

really just mentored me on vision, strategy, brand communication,

praying, and step seven, take action.

and so that's R seven.

Now it's very much fine tuned now over, a 15 year period.

I've walked hundreds and hundreds of executives and professional

athletes through R seven.

it is, to me it is the foundation of creating a brand.

I've created brands without messaging.

It doesn't work.

I've created messaging, you know, just basically building the bridge as you, you

know, walking across the bridge as you're building it, putting the bricks down as

you're walking, you know, kind of thing.

thing.

So this is a high level strategic process to build a brand.

Yeah, that's good.

Just, but

Yeah.

where, I'm sure I know the book's on Amazon, 'cause I actually got

it on Kindle Unlimited, which was

Awesome.

tell people where they could find all your stuff.

We'll include it down in the notes, but, m is good and anything else

that you wanna share, then I've got one more question that's kind of my

exclamation point question for you.

Sure you can find me@sgood.com.

All my R seven blogs.

I've done a probably in the last 15 years, I don't write many blogs, probably

like four a year, so I make sure that they're pretty rigorous and detailed.

So I'm doing a pretty good job with the R seven podcast and writing a

blog first and putting the podcast up.

So if you wanna consume more, it's, it's at m as good.com.

Very good.

All right, so I, the subtitle of the book is Seven Strategies for Mental Toughness.

So.

Dr. Super Dave, someone's listening in and they're questioning whether or not they've

got the mental toughness that they need.

I'm gonna give you, let the Holy Spirit lead.

Yes.

30 seconds to speak directly to that person that really questioning

their mental toughness and they want to increase it, Encourage them.

Yeah.

So first of all, I just wanna encourage you for asking yourself this question.

I think there's a level of mindfulness that maybe you're not

mentally tough, and so now you're thinking about it, which is huge.

know,

I think in a fixed mindset, you can go, yeah, I'm good.

I don't need to do any of that.

That's where, you know, excellence does not happen.

So just by asking the question, it's powerful to

say, okay, am I mentally tough?

So you're mindful that you're not, which is great.

The next step is, being mentally tough is not about how you were born.

It's not about your genealogy, it is about how you're thinking about the world.

And so the easiest, simplest thing I can say is, and it's the slogan of mental

toughness training, which is plan to win.

So when you're planning to win, right?

if you don't have a plan, you're planning to lose.

So it doesn't mean the plan is stuck for the next five years.

It means that you're thinking about it before it happens.

So when we plan to win, we are mentally, emotionally, physically,

spiritually aware, or planning for what we wanna do next.

When you start writing stuff down and you start thinking about

things, it just speaks to you.

you.

And so that's what I would say.

Excellent.

So good.

Dave Jones, author of Vision Wins Seven Strategies for Mental

Toughness in Life and Sports.

Get a copy of the book.

Like I said, I'm about 35% through and it's great storytelling.

I'm real curious now what's gonna happen with Kelly and Elliot as they go along

I'll get to hear more Zamboni, Zamboni.

Zamboni.

That's really cool.

I love to use that word.

thanks Dave.

We appreciate you joining us here.

We're seat go create.

We've got new episodes here every Monday.

stuff just like this, just like this every week that we're bringing

people in are just helping us be the people that we were created to be.

That's what we're all about here.

And so thanks for joining us and we will see everyone next week on Seek Go Create.