Daniel Murray: Welcome to a new special series called The Bathroom Break, that extra 10 minutes, you either have to listen to marketing tips or use the bathroom or both, but I don't recommend. But that's your choice. This

Jay Schwedelson: collab is gonna be super fun. We have Daniel Murray from the Marketing Millennials and me, Jay Schwedelson from the Do This Not That podcast and SubjectLine.com. Each episode in this series, we are gonna go over quick tips about different marketing topics. And if you want to be in the bathroom, fine, just don't tell us about it. Thanks for checking it out.

Daniel Murray: We are back with another bathroom break. I'm here with. The Jay Schwedelson of Do This Not That podcast. And before we jump in, I want to ask you a question because I, I don't really know the answer to this. Um, so what is your beverage of choice in the morning and is it hot or cold? Like what, what, when do you, and do you have a routine with your beverage in the morning or is it something different every day?

Jay Schwedelson: Well, this is very odd that you asked me that. I, I, you probably don't know this, but I, I, I usually, I have drank a lot of coffee, an extreme amount of coffee, like my whole adult life, and then I felt like really jittery, right? So, uh, I'm now on week seven. I gave up all caffeine. All caffeine seven weeks ago. So I've had no coffee, no nothing with, with, with caffeine. And so the, my new favorite drink of choice is chamomile tea. I hope all my college buddies hear this and I get shredded. 'cause when you go in somewhere and you. Can I have a small chamomile tea? I should go and just basically kick my own ass.

Daniel Murray: I've done that once where everybody's owning alcohol and I was like, could I get a like water with lemon please? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like hot water and lemon. And everybody looked at me like, what are you doing? Why are you, we're all drinking hot water with my man.

Jay Schwedelson: Oh yeah. I'm on that train also. I am, I am. Uh, I'm like eliminating everything. But you,

Daniel Murray: for people who don't know Jay. Used to, like when I used to see him at conferences, he used to be on his fifth Celsius by 10:00 AM

Jay Schwedelson: Right? So

Daniel Murray: this is a big change

Jay Schwedelson: for him. This is a big, this is a big change. I didn't get any headaches or anything. And the weirdest thing is I thought when I cut out caffeine, I was gonna have no energy and I fall asleep at my desk. I feel exactly the same. I'm still out of control. So, um, yeah. Chamomile tea, I, what are you, what is your drink of choice?

Daniel Murray: I always have to have a, a coffee in the morning, like, but I do, I I would say it's more of a routine than a, like, I like it as a routine thing after 12, I don't drink any caffeine. So like, it, it has to be like at an eight to 8:00 AM and then I will, I only have one and it's done. So.

Jay Schwedelson: Well, speaking of one and done, you'll probably be listeners be one and done with listening to us after this episode. So let's jump into it. Um, we're gonna be talking about some quick win tactics. I wanna talk about clicks for a second, so I'm gonna get right into it.

Jay Schwedelson: I think everybody is sleeping on what they are doing with click-throughs. What do I mean by that? So let's say you send out emails, could be a promotional email, business, consumer nonprofit, doesn't matter. It could be a newsletter email. It doesn't matter how big or small your brand is. What do you do? Oh, you get some opens, you get some clicks, you get some customers, you get some downloads, whatever. But the majority of people who click on your email, they're not going to convert. Right? Whatever it is, they're not gonna convert. So, you know, maybe somewhere you have in your scoring methodology and some sort of automation tool that you give a couple extra, you know, points to, to a contact in your database that they clicked on an email, but that's not even close to enough.

Jay Schwedelson: Here are some of the things that you should be thinking about doing with people that click through on your emails. Number one, you should be segmenting out anyone that clicked. On your emails into its own little database. And then you should be running retargeting and remarketing programs across all of social media, all your display ads, just with your click-through contacts, because they're way more, uh, engaged than just taking to your entire database and remarketing to them. And you could run remarketing and retargeting campaigns to your click activity at like, like for dollars for actual. No money whatsoever. And then the other thing I don't think that people are doing with their clicks is tagging them in their CRM and in their databases. What do I mean by that?

Jay Schwedelson: Everybody's always trying to find out more information about people that click. I mean, people that are in their database, people that are, you know, whatever your database is made up of whatever the topic is that the person clicked on, right? You're, it's an HR software, and they clicked on hiring stuff, you know, it's a consumer thing about sneakers, and they clicked on hiking. Okay? You wanna have tags associated with all the different content types and all the different offer types. Of those clicks in your messaging and then you wanna add those tags in your CRM or in your email tool or whatever your marketing tool is, because then when you go to do a segmented campaign, you can pull on those tags that you've assigned to those click-throughs and you're sleeping on the best way to segment your database. So your clicks have a lot more value than just actually people clicking through.

Daniel Murray: I like that. And I also think too, just like misnomers is, 'cause I is, make sure you're. Optimizing for clicks on actual good CTAs. I think you, because you can have clicks on your database that are of stupid links that are irrelevant to your, to what you're offering. So you could even go deeper and say they clicked on. Uh, eBook link. They clicked on a, um, a, a product link. They clicked on this. And also retargeting. You could do it, you could do retargeting in ways with your lifecycle stuff. So you could do it with email retargeting. You could, you could also not only push it to Meta, you could push it to, um, other channels that you're trying to remarket. So I, I like that technique of like thinking about. Clicks as a way to segment highly engaged, um, people in, in, in your database. And, but yeah, tag them. The people make the mistake of not tagging because there's so many BS clicks that happen. So you want real clicks in your database that, um. To, to be able to retarget.

Jay Schwedelson: Yeah. I'll give you one, uh, simple hack that all the email deliverability people out there will, will hate me for, but I don't really care. Uh, here's a news flash for everybody. You have bot clicks in your tracking reports in any tracking. I don't care what platform you used to send out your email, you have bot clicks, clicks that aren't real. Your clicks are inflated. That is the nature of the, of the internet. If you want a real quick way to figure out the inflation of your click activity in your marketing metrics, what you want to do, and it's fine, life will go on. Take one of your emails, send it out at like two or three in the morning. Okay. And you're like, why would I ever do that? And then isolate out the click-through activity that happens in the first 30 minutes. Here's the deal, you're not that popular at two or three in the morning. Your brand's not that popular, right? So any clicks that you're seeing in the first 30 minutes, at two or three in the morning, those are bot clicks. And you could actually take that and say that's your baseline for how inflated your overall metrics are. And then you could actually get to what is my real click-through rate? Although some of you just want the vanity metrics, you want it to be really high.

Daniel Murray: What I do too is I put an invisible link above.

Jay Schwedelson: Yeah.

Daniel Murray: The like above the fold and see how many people are clicking. Um,

Jay Schwedelson: yeah. That's what people do too.

Daniel Murray: And this is the problem, like, 'cause you can, we've gave the tip sometimes, which is smart, but also can inflate your clicks. So if you put the link in your logo to your offer, it will inflate the, the clicks, uh, on your email. So. If you put like another link above the logo, um, that's hidden, you could see how many 'cause only computers are gonna be able to see that link and not a, a regular person.

Jay Schwedelson: Yeah, I mean that's a hundred percent a cleaner way to do it. And the last thing I'll tell you on clicks, which you'll be shocked how many people do this, make sure your unsubscribe link click is not factored into your click-through rate. You would be shocked about how many companies do not actually discount the unsubscribe link. From their click activity. You can't be like, oh, we got a great click-through rate. We also have a high unsubscribe rate. Hmm. That's weird.

Daniel Murray: And then I think the last thing I would add is make sure you also have a filter of like ICP, um, in the click, in the click report because sometimes you'll have good clicks of people who are just like. Stragglers clicking and they just interested. So take that and also make sure you look at the list and clean it for ICP 'cause you can run it through an enrichment software and stuff like that too, to get more information and then push it to, to any ad platform out there.

Jay Schwedelson: Totally. So let me, so back to the beginning here. Are you like some sort of like, uh, dude, like when you go to Starbucks, do you have like an order that's like, hi, I want a caramel macchiato, three pumps, no pumps, two things of Stevia and hold the cream? Or do you have like the most complicated order of all time? No. Are you an embarrassment?

Daniel Murray: But I do. I did actually, to be honest, I was in the airport the other day and like, I think Starbucks trained me. I felt like scared to go order. Like at the desk. So I, I went, I was, saw it and I took out my app and mobile ordered it so I didn't have to talk to anybody. 'cause I'm, I get so nervous I get, if I want to add one Stevia, I get like, oh my goodness. I add a one little Stevia to it. It's, it's. Getting crazy. So I I, I, I went mobile ordered when I saw Are you

Jay Schwedelson: scared of the barista?

Daniel Murray: Yeah, I'm scared of the barista.

Jay Schwedelson: There needs to be like a phobia for that, like, you know, barista phobia or Wow, who knew? Wow. Meanwhile, you put out like this monster podcast. You talk to people all day long and you. Talk to the barista and, oh,

Daniel Murray: sometimes I just don't wanna, I don't wanna deal with people like knowing exactly what my order is every single time and know if I wanna try something new. I'm like, I don't wanna mess this up. So I want to go slowly and look through the menu, because I feel rushed when I'm up there, and that's what I don't like.

Jay Schwedelson: Okay. Uh, we'll, we'll, we'll keep it chill for you. Well, once again, we crushed another episode. Everybody, uh, leave Daniel a review. Follow the Marketing Millennials. Do This Not That and keep it real, Daniel. Come on man. I gotta get back to work. Get out of there. Alright, while he's still in there, this is Jay, check out my podcast. Do This Not That for marketers. Each week we share really quick tips on stuff that can improve your marketing, and I hope you give it a try. Oh, here's Daniel. He's finally out.

Daniel Murray: Back from my bathroom break. This is Daniel. Go follow the Marketing Millennials podcast, but also tune into this series. It's once a week, the Bathroom Break. We talk about marketing tips that we just spew out, and it could be anything from email subject lines to any marketing tips in the world. We'll talk about it. Just give us a shout on LinkedIn and tell us what you want to hear. He's out

Jay Schwedelson: later.