Hi, I'm Marley and I'm the author of the children's book called Namu Stay.

I love it.

I love it.

Thanks, Marley, for appearing on the Adventures in the Heart, a children's book authors podcast show.

Marley, as she's mentioned, has written a children's book called Nam Muste, which is just going to be a lot of fun discussing her book.

Marley, I do have your book.

Oh, amazing.

Great book.

I had a lot of fun reading it, so thank you.

Thank you so much.

Thanks for having me on the show.

My pleasure.

Before we jump into the details of your book, can you tell us what being a children's book author means to you?

Definitely.

Writing this children's book happened in a surprising way.

I wasn't planning on being a children's book author when I was, which might surprise people because I have spent my entire career as a writer, as a journalist and editor, but I never really thought of writing a children's book.

But the idea just came to me one day inspired by my son.

At the time, he was about 2.

He's 10 now, so it was a while ago.

And being a children's book authority means a lot more than just the fact that I am an author.

But the meaning is very much about the journey to getting there, believing in myself, investing time into myself, and persevering and just making something happen.

I noticed you said in your bio that you wrote it in your notes and then let it percolate for a while.

So tell us a little bit about that percolation.

Oh, yes.

When the idea came to me, I wrote the first draft, like, immediately the entire first draft came to me, and I wrote it in my notes, and then I just set it aside because I have thousands of notes on my phone that I always.

That's just my brain dump anytime I have any idea, and I have a lot of ideas in my head at all times on a wide range of subjects.

So my notes are just full.

And I thought this was another note that was just going to be there just in case, because you never know.

And to be honest, I forgot about it for a little while.

And I didn't.

I was just like, oh, this would be a really cool children's book.

Okay.

And then I just really think about it that much.

And then a few years later, around, like when Covet hit actually is when I started thinking about it again, it came back into my mind.

It was a couple of years had passed, and for some reason, it just kept coming up in my mind as something that maybe I'd want to do with.

But I think that, like, a lot of other people experienced this from speaking with them, that I definitely had some imposter syndrome of.

Even though I wrote this book, the first draft, I'll say, I don't think that I allowed myself to think that I could be a published author.

Because when you're in the stage before you actually publish a book, it feels.

Feels like an impossible task.

It feels like something other people do.

It's not like I was like, grappling with it and hard on myself.

It was very matter of fact, like, I don't know how to publish a book.

I'm like, maybe one day I'll think about it.

Absolutely.

With all the guests I've had on the show, there's a lot of guests, including myself, that if it wasn't for Covid, I think the positive thing about COVID it brought a lot of great children and any type of author into the marketplace because I ended up writing two now not two children's books.

I actually wrote two investment real estate books and learned how to actually publish from there.

And that really then led me on my journey to become a published children's book author with my grandchildren.

So it's funny, the positive effect that Covid had on a lot of aspiring authors.

Yes, definitely.

One thing I've noticed, I feel like it forced a lot of people to reevaluate, like the status quo of how because it just interrupted everything and nothing was the same as before, but just forced this mentality shift.

Even if you didn't want it, it forced through you into this new mindset and so a lot of new ideas.

Yeah.

It was like having therapy and you didn't have to pay for it.

Exactly.

It didn't really feel like it at the time.

No, absolutely not.

In retrospect, I want to just take you back just a little bit because you mentioned your son was the motivation that kick started you to finally get your butt in gear and create this children's book.

What was it about that moment with your son that triggered this whole experience?

Yeah.

So I'll tell the story.

It started because my son at the time, I think he was probably around 18 months or two around that age.

And I remember that he was really struggling with transitions at that age, especially transitioning from playtime to bedtime or playtime to nap time.

And it was just a battle.

Like, it was just really hard.

And I was trying to figure out how to make that transition smoother and easier because being like, okay, stop playing.

We're like Gonna go to sleep now.

Like, naturally.

Kids don't really want to do that.

I was trying different things.

I don't even remember what they were at the time.

But I remember one day we were at.

Actually, it was at home.

I noticed that he went into a downward dog yoga position.

And I had never taught him yog.

We'd never done yoga.

He just went into that pose, and I was, like, thinking, that's so interesting that kids.

Or that he just naturally wanted to be in that position.

So that was, like, the first thing I noticed.

And then I realized at playgroup another time that there was another kid who went into a downward dog pose, like, with the butt in the air.

I was like, there's something about this yoga pose that kids like.

And so that inspired me to start introducing a little bit of yoga and meditation during transition times, because I had this idea that, okay, we can still do movement, and he's still letting out some energy, but it's more of calm movement and in a calmer way.

So I started doing yoga poses, and he was very excited about that.

And then I introduced a routine where we would sit on my bed together, and we would do some vibration sounds.

Like we'd go.

Because it's, like, sensory and very comforting, and he just thought it was funny.

So making things fun was key, and it was successful.

So that became a thing.

We would always go.

And then at the end, I'd go, okay, let's say namaste.

So we'd go like this and go, namaste.

And we did it every day, every single night.

And so what inspired me was one day we were on the bed, we did the yoga, we did the om, and we were.

I was like, okay, let's do Namaste.

So we went like this, and my son stood up.

He stood into my face, and he just yelled, namu.

Because, like, kids love animal sounds.

And I thought that was the funniest thing.

Like, my husband was there.

We were all laughing hysterically.

Like, he was laughing hysterically.

I was like, that would be an amazing children's book because I love reading.

I'm a very avid reader, bookworm, always have been.

My professional background is writing.

For some reason, didn't cross my mind to write children's books, but I love children's books.

Our house is stocked to the brim with kids books, so that's a big part of our routine, too.

We always read children's books.

So terrific.

So when you said that, I immediately had an idea.

And literally, I was, like, asking my husband just Stay here.

And I, like, ran to the other room to get my phone, and I typed up the first draft immediately.

Oh, good for you.

It's always interesting, and I love it because my background in children's book writing comes from my oldest granddaughter.

And two shows ago, we aired an episode 64, Allison and Shririe, and it's called Thatcher Hates the Bath.

And it's about a young boy and his mother and the trials and tribulations about a young child going into the bath and hating it.

And she's a script writer for shows like Law and Order suv and so she has that kind of criminal background in terms of her writing approach.

And she wrote a children's book.

It's a fun read because she makes, like, a crime is broken out in the house when every time Thatcher has a bath.

It's incredible.

Children, how they trigger things for you.

Yes.

And I really think that there's a purity and just this, like, innocence and creativity in kids that if you really pay attention and listen, like, they really have the best ideas.

It's absolutely amazing because my granddaughter and I spend a lot of time together.

My oldest granddaughter, I have five grandkids, but my oldest granddaughter and I spent a lot of time in the Rocky Mountains because we live very close to the Rocky Mountains.

And so we learned to ski together and snowshoe and horseback ride in the winter and stuff like that.

And the nice thing about it is I call her our first digital baby because there's no film.

When she was born, the only thing you had, and it's gotten even more sophisticated, is your iPhone or your smartphone.

Every time her and I would go out and do something, I would take four to eight pictures, but they would just sit there on the phone.

And eventually I took her to a local coffee shop, and she said, papa, I know we were looking at these pictures, but we never do anything with them.

Can we write a story?

And I said, oh, what kind of story?

And before you know it, we were.

We wrote our first book called the Adventures of Caboose the Rocky Mountain Bear.

Oh, my goodness.

So special that you did that together.

Absolutely.

And with my oldest granddaughter and my middle granddaughter, we wrote our second book called Hijinks from the Big Head Folk Music Festival.

To your point, it's that special contact with children that can have so much inspiration.

And now, like, We've written over 38 stories with in the Adventures of Caboose, the Rocky Mountain Bear with the five grandchildren.

My God, Yes.

I could see your creative juices growing from your son and having Some fun with it.

Yeah, definitely.

And you know what, Marley?

I always talk to my guests about their children's book business.

Today's going to be a fun because we're going to briefly talk about where you've taken your children's book business business.

I wanted to mention to the listening audience that we're going to be doing a separate episode with Marley.

I want to let Marley jump in here and explain to us.

Tell us about how you've built out your children's book business and how it took on this form.

I don't want you to go too much into depth because we'll do that in the next episode.

But if you can explain to us this whole journey of how you ended up with a publishing house.

Yeah, for sure.

So I'll save the publishing details for the next episode, but I'll tell you about how I got there.

And it's really all because of my book.

And just as a little context of the journey to creating my book reevaluated my career.

I left a stable job and I went into freelance writing instead of my 9 to 5 editing job.

And so I just wanted to have more work life, balance and focus on my family and have time to do things that brought me joy.

And so that included self publishing, my first children's book.

So I started my freelancing business and then worked on my children's book.

Can I back you up just for a second?

Sure.

I want to make sure there's no confusion.

When you say self published, do you mean independently published or did you hire someone to help you publish your book?

I created a publishing house to publish my own book.

Okay, your first book you independently published because you did all the work, you didn't hire anyone.

Correct.

Although I did hire an illustrator.

I did all of the project managing and coordination from beginning to end.

But I did hire experts to do the parts that I couldn't do, such as illustration layout.

I hired a Ryman Meter editor, which is a whole other story.

But I learned a lot about Ryman Meter through working with her, and she was amazing.

So I did work and I worked with a marketing expert.

So I worked with a lot of different experts, which had a huge impact on my overall journey and learning about the publishing process because I taught a lot to myself.

But I also learned a lot from other experts along.

The reason I always distinguish both is because, first of all, I'm an independent book publisher.

So we created our own publishing house, just like you.

We call it Caboose the Rocky Mountain Bear Publishing Den.

And that's the name of our publishing company.

We've published two children's books.

And then of course, when I first started out, I independently published two investment real estate books.

But the reason I try and show people the difference is a lot of people think self publishing is or independent publishing are the same thing, and they're not.

Self publishing tends to be where you go out and hire someone, as Marley's talked about, to be like the project manager, the general manager of your project.

And so I just want to keep that separate so it doesn't confuse people too much.

It's so interesting.

Sorry to go on a tangent, but I find that in book publishing, it's so interesting because the definitions of the newer types of publishing are different according to different people.

They're used differently.

Like, I think of self publishing and independent publishing as the opposite of what you said, actually.

Okay.

It is interesting for me, I've been trying to, because I have so many children's book authors on our podcast show.

And I find that independent to me is pretty clear because you've taken on all of the roles or you become the project manager, but you still are in complete control.

Whereas with self publishing and with self publishing, I just find that people call it hybrid self publishing.

Some people get upset because hybrids sounds so negative and all that.

I've just tried to keep it as positive as I can in terms of the terminal.

And like you said, it's difficult because.

It'S so funny because I like when I explain the different publishing models, I explain it a little bit differently.

So I find it interesting.

It's good that you explained it because it's consistent on your.

Yes.

And you talk to everyone.

So everyone knows what I'm referring to because I might use a different terminology.

Absolutely.

So thank you for that anyway.

And I don't want to digress too much because we'll definitely get into it on the next podcast show.

So.

Oh, yes.

How it led to creating a publishing house.

And that's all about just so the.

That everyone understands.

And we'll talk about this more in the next episode.

But the biggest thing is building out your children's book business.

And we all approach it differently.

And that's what I'm trying to get to the meat and potatoes of this is how did you use your children's book to build out your children's book business?

The process of creating my book, I did it over about two and a half years for my first book, because even before I started, I'm very much like an all or Nothing type of personality and how I approach things.

And so I decided if I'm doing this, I'm going to do it right.

Like I'm going to be meticulous and make sure it's very high quality.

And just because I was also working at the time, it took a bit of time to get it out.

And a part of that planning and process was thinking about marketing.

So even before my book was out, I already was planning on how I was going to get the book out into the world and what my plan was going to be.

So that involved promoting it on social media and documenting the process over two years.

So people, not that I have a massive social media following, but the people who were invested were following from beginning to end.

So that really helped to build excitement around the book.

So by the time it came out, I already had quite a few people who were very excited and interested in the book.

So.

So thinking ahead was very important part of growing the business of selling the book.

Another thing that I had thought about was what am I going to do with the book when I have it and how am I going to get it out there?

Because I know that I could create what I think is an incredible book and unless I promote it, no one will know about the book and no one will find it.

And so I think maybe I had a bit of a leg up coming from media and having worked in media.

So I understand and I've worked with PR and publicists and I've been on the editorial side of things.

So I knew from the get go that I needed to think about those things.

So once my book was ready, I had already set things up and had been planning my book launch for months before my book was ready.

And I had a big book launch.

Actually I had two book launches.

I did one that I planned myself and I don't think it's like needed to do a big book launch, but it's something I wanted to do because I was so proud of myself for putting in the work and I wanted to celebrate it.

And so I did a big party and it was all the kids and families that I know who came to support.

It was super fun and we had yoga and food and activities.

And then I did a book launch at a bookstore, like a local bookstore, children's book in Montreal called Babar Books, which is an amazing bookstore if anyone comes to Montreal, and they really support local authors.

So part of creating a business for selling my books was planning a bunch of events, doing research to see what events were coming up that I would want to do and try out.

And it was a lot of trial and error in the first year to see what I liked doing and what worked.

I realized that I loved going to schools and reading to kids.

So I did that a lot.

And I had a bunch of schools that purchased books, and I had one school that did a bulk order and gave one book to each incoming kindergarten student, which was, like, very exciting.

That was, like, one of the most exciting things in the first year that happened.

Like, it was like a very special thing.

I couldn't believe it.

Yeah.

So visiting schools and seeing, like, reading.

So it sounds like you did a lot of trial and error.

I did.

And then how did that lead you to.

And we won't get into too much depth, but how did that lead you to this focus of building a business around a children's book publishing house around your first book?

Like, how did that happen?

Because I had put so much time and effort into promoting my book, my community and extended community became very familiar with my book and with me.

And I was just present at a lot of craft fairs and events.

The biggest thing that started happening was I noticed a pattern.

Anytime I did any sort of craft fair, holiday fair, book fair, selling my book tons.

Like, a significant amount of people would approach me at every single event and start talking to me and almost like, secretly reveal they wrote a children's book or they'd always wanted to publish a children's book, or they had an idea and they didn't know what to do.

And I spent a lot of time talking to people about the process that I went through, answering questions.

So a lot of free advice.

Oh, yes, I was.

And it was not on my radar.

Published books for other people.

Because my wife always says.

And the reason I mentioned this is she always says, because it's now moose day.

My wife always says, rick, not only do you give the milk away for free, you give the whole cow away for free.

Yeah, exactly.

You can't make a living giving your livelihood away.

But I digress here a bit.

But so obviously it sent you in the direction that you love that part of the book publishing business.

You found that you were getting so many requests.

So that's what sent you in this direction.

Definitely.

Yeah.

It really happened organically.

So it just started.

I didn't even cross my mind that I could offer it as a service at first.

I was just more than happy to help anybody, and I still am, to be honest.

If anybody was curious and wants to do publishing on their own and not have assistance Like, I have created, like, PDFs and things to help people because I just think anybody who has an idea and is overwhelmed, like, they should feel that they can do it because anybody can do it.

But then I realized I was constantly telling people and encouraging them, you can do this.

If I thought it was a good idea, I'd say, this is a fantastic idea.

These are the things you need to do.

And eventually some people would say, can you publish it for me, I work full time doing this, or I'm really busy.

I don't have time to just go through every single step on my own.

I was like, oh, you want me?

So with your book, I want to draw us back to focusing on Namu State is when you first brought your book to life and I looked at your website.

Your book is on your website, but not the primary focus of the website.

Now, when you first started out with your book, was your book the primary focus on your website, or did you have a website to support your book?

So that's a great question.

When I first created my website, my book was definitely the focus.

My website has always been gardenwolfpublishing.com I wanted to frame it as like a publisher with a mission, which has always been to help kids learn social emotional skills.

And so I did frame my website as a publisher that focused on that.

But in the beginning, it was just my book.

It was very much about my mission as a publisher, and this is my book.

Let's talk about your book a bit more.

When you first started out, I noticed you have two formats.

You have a paperback, and of course, I purchased your ebook, and they're both on Amazon.

The other thing, do you also use ingramsparks?

I don't use ingramspark, but I actually printed a bulk order of hardcover books.

Offset printing in China.

When I'm doing events, I bring my hardcover books, and then I consider my Amazon as just a bonus, as I haven't put very much effort into.

So I want to back up on that a bit because I talked to a lot of children's book authors, and some have a hardcover book, they use IngramSpark because Amazon doesn't do a children's hardcover book.

Just so everyone understands, Amazon starts hardcover books at 75 pages.

If you're under 75 pages, which is most children's books, they don't do a hard copy.

So a lot of people use Ingram Sparks.

The only thing is that if you look at the pricing, a lot of times on whether it's Amazon or through ingramsparks, hardcover Books tend to be very expensive.

I was talking to Charlotte Glaze, episode 23, and she had mentioned she had used a company called madeinchina.com to publish her hardcover books.

And I said, oh.

And she said, yeah, they'll make anything for you.

And I said what about the quality of print?

What about the cost to get them and all that?

And she said she was pleasantly surprised of having.

The quality was fantastic.

The price to get them, in her case she was in Oklahoma.

To get them to Oklahoma was not outrageous.

And she was making a better margin, which I'm going to guess you're making a better margin when you do your in person events with your hardcover book.

Is that correct?

Absolutely.

So the way I describe offset printing in China is you do have to do an upfront investment.

It's not a, it's not a small number because you have to order minimum 500 books, but it's very close in price to get a thousand books.

So I ordered a thousand hardcover books and it ends up costing a few dollars a book and I sell it for $20.

So it's a much, much bigger margin and I have to say the quality is impeccable.

I work with, I've worked with a few different offset printers in China who also print for large traditional publishing houses.

That's what Charlotte said.

What she said she, that she wanted to work with.

She sent them the book format and then from there they sent.

She had to pay for the samples, but she got the samples, she looked at them and then she made a decision.

So did you go through the same process?

Yep, that's exactly what I did.

So I've worked with a few different printers in China and gone through that exact thing and spent money to get samples from a few printers and then select the one who's quality I like the best.

But to be honest, they were all very high quality and the customer service in China is incredible.

I actually have worked with some local printers or some North American printers in China.

Print on demand.

I have to say my experience with the printers in China is the by far the best.

Because of Charlotte.

We actually created because this is Caboose the Rocky Mountain Bear, our main character.

And one of the bookstores that we were in said, Rick, we sell a lot more books if there's a plushie to go with your main character.

When we went to madeinchina.com we had the same experience.

Now the only reason I'm mentioning this is because it's whether you have a book printed or you have a plushie made.

It's the same experience.

What we did is we found a couple of companies.

We decided on one, we paid for a sample, they sent us a sample, and then from there we.

We're very happy with the quality and the pricing.

So thank you for sharing that and.

Thanks for sharing about the plushie, because that's something I've thought about too and have been asked about from authors that I work with.

And I think it's a great idea and it's something I've been wanting to do.

So I'm definitely going to look into that.

I want to dig deeper into your publishing approach, and I'm curious, when you came to publishing your children's book, what was the biggest challenge or frustration?

Because at that time, as a children's book author, now you're thinking, okay, do I independently publish?

Do I self publish?

Do I go after a traditional publisher?

So tell us, when you started this whole publishing approach, what was your biggest challenge or frustration to get going after?

I had written the manuscript for the story, and I knew I wanted to do something with it.

I originally was thinking that I would want to try to traditionally publish it.

And I have some contacts in the traditional publishing industry.

I have a family member who's a pretty successful children's book author and illustrator, and she very kindly connected me with some contacts that she had worked with.

And so I had some really good conversations with a few different publishing houses of editors, and they gave me some great feedback.

But the thing I learned a few things, and I also did some of my own independent outreach to other traditional publishers.

And the thing I learned is, number one, as a new author that's not been published before, it's highly unlikely that a traditional publisher will.

Will acquire your rhyming book.

It's very difficult to sell a rhyming book.

A lot of them on their submission page will say, we don't accept rhyming books.

And so that really surprised me.

And I later, once I got into editing and learning about rhyme and meter, I understood.

I started to understand why, because it's very hard to do rhyme and meter.

It's challenging.

So that was number one.

And I was very committed to keeping my book rhyming because that was my vision.

And I was very attached to my own creative ownership over the development of my book and my vision and how it would aesthetically look.

And then also I had spoken, there was another publisher who was interested in my book.

But then they were talking about they loved the name Namuste, but they would want to change Like, a lot of things about the direction of the story or how just the style.

I don't remember if it was because of the rhyme or not.

Or maybe they just had a.

They were like, we want to acquire the name and then do what we want.

And I was like.

Like, no.

Like that just really reinforced that the purpose of doing this for me in the beginning was really a creative project, a passion project for myself, something I really believed in, had a really personal connection to.

And also, every part of the book is very personal to me because every animal has a name that is a child in my life.

Like, I have three nieces, all my best friends, kids, names are in there.

Like, every part of the book is just very personal to me.

And I realized through going through that experience that publishing on my own, doing it my way, keeping ownership was the way for me.

And what I find too is I've had two traditionally published children's book authors on my show, and the one thing they like to make perfectly clear is just because you're traditionally published, the publisher expects you to still do all the work in terms of marketing, sales, and distribution to some degree.

It's not like you're getting a free ride.

Yes, and that was.

And I'm glad you brought that up, because as I was learning about the publishing industry and figuring out what I wanted to do, that was one of the things that surprised me the most and was one of the big reasons why.

Why I decided to just do it on my own.

Because a big motivation for traditional publishing for me was that I would have a lot of help in that area, which is.

Feels overwhelming for a lot of people to think of being responsible for your book sales.

It's like a lot of pressure, but then realizing that, okay, I'm expected to do that anyway, I would rather keep ownership over my idea and the final product and have complete creative control over it if I have to do all of that work.

Anyway, I couldn't agree with you more, because even when we started our book and it was my oldest granddaughter who we were looking to name our character, and in our home we had my dad's old train set, and at the end of the train set was a red caboose.

And my granddaughter said, what's that?

And I said, oh, that's a caboose.

People don't realize it, but it's been over 20 years since trains had a caboose.

At the end of the train, there is no caboose.

There's a complete generation of people that have grown up, have no idea.

When she came up with the idea of calling it Caboose, her first name is Kira.

We actually spelled Caboose with a K. I love that.

And that's.

And that stands for Kira.

And to your point, all of my other four grandchildren, they picked out the animal they wanted to be.

And if you look at Bailey, she picked out a beaver as her character, and so it's Bailey the beaver.

And to your point, Marley, that's a beautiful thing about keeping the creativity for yourself is then you have the literary license to do whatever you want.

That's exactly right.

And just not to stray too far from talking about the book, but I just wanted to mention that my experience with this and being an author and feeling how important and personal all of this is, that plays into every part of how I approach my publishing business with my authors.

And I like to say that I'm like an author first publisher, because I was an author first and I know how important and personal all these details are.

And I know that there's a certain way that things are done in the industry, but I have the leg up of not being originally from the publishing industry and I don't feel beholden to the traditional system, so I just make it up for what I feel is right.

It's interesting you say that, because when we published our first children's book and I was looking at just as you searching out ways to market the book, how do you do that?

And after we finished our first book, we knew, because I had sat down with my grandchildren, we had written 38 stories, we knew we were going to come out with another book.

Podcasting came about a year after our first book was published.

And what I did is I had to learn how do you even do a podcast if you listen to our first nine episodes, half of them, I interview my grandchildren because they're co authors.

And so I interviewed them as the author of children's books.

And that built up a large enough.

When you get to nine episodes, believe it or not, that's about three times as many episodes as the average podcast ever reaches.

When we got to nine, all of a sudden I had a lot of children's book authors reaching out and want to be on the podcast grew from there.

But it's interesting, like you said, everybody has their different approach and how it ends up happening.

Yeah, exactly.

Super interesting.

I know you mentioned your son as the main motivation to write your book, to actually then take action.

Was there an event besides Covid?

Was there an event or a person that finally they said you know what, Marley?

If you're going to sit on your phone and sit on your notepad, which is your phone, it's just not going to come to life.

Was there an event or someone who motivated you to finally take your phone, take your notes, and let's get at it?

It's interesting you asked that, because I didn't even really talk about it with anybody.

It was very much an internal shift, and I can be a bit stubborn.

So somebody telling me to do something different won't necessarily motivate me.

It has.

It had.

I honestly don't know where the motivation came from.

I know that Covid was a big triggering factor just because of many different ways it impacted my life.

And I think I just wanted to do something for me.

And so my mind went to the.

Positive thing is that.

How long did it sit in your notes before you started taking action?

Four years.

Four years.

And you know what?

That sounds like a long time, but I have talked to several children's book authors who were teachers, and a lot of times they sat on their children's book for 20 to 30, 30 years until they actually finished their career and had the time to then figure out, how am I going to do this?

So four years sounds like a long time in the grand scheme of things.

It's just fun that you took action.

That's why I asked that question, because I always find that at some point, what triggered you to take action is a big thing.

It's a really good question, and I'm curious.

I don't remember there being one specific trigger.

I feel like it, like, was really just this decision to do something for me, to make myself happy and to do something that I felt very passionate about and that I would feel fulfilled.

Because I think I was missing that in my work, where I've always really enjoyed what I do and really love writing and editing and content strategy.

But there was a fulfillment piece that was missing, and I had always felt that, and I always knew that.

And so I was always searching for what I could do to feel that, like, I was giving back.

And that fills me to do it.

When I had kids, I started to become very interested in psychology and mental health and learning about parenting methodology.

And so I've navigated my own mental health over the past, like, 15 years.

And so just I've developed a lot of knowledge around mental health that's become, like, a very big passion of mine.

There was just a lot of meaning and purpose behind it.

So I think that's really what drove me.

Okay, is just.

It checked all the boxes.

Like it seemed really fun.

I was proud of it.

It felt.

Felt like it would really do good and help people for sharing that.

Because again, motivation comes in all forms.

And.

And that's one of the reasons I asked the question I want to get into because you talked about it and I want to dig deeper into your book because it was a fun read.

I read it a couple of times and I'm always curious in character development because I'm lucky.

Five of our characters in our books are my grandchildren.

They take on some of their characters.

That's fun in itself.

And so I was curious because you actually have a lot of characters.

And even though it's Namu's day and the first thing you think of is a cow, the cow is not front and center through the whole book.

And so I love how you use the different animal in each different yoga pose.

Talk to us about two things.

One is the different animals in the different yoga poses.

And then the other thing is most of your animals got equal billing.

So talk to us about that.

Yeah, I guess it was just a vision that I had from the beginning when I first had the idea that I wanted to showcase certain.

A variety of what I believe to be very important social emotional skills that I think are really important for kids.

But to do it in a fun way that didn't feel like I'm educating kids on something and to make it really fun.

Okay.

And make it like an overview.

So I didn't go super in depth on the characters and I didn't go super in depth on the traits.

And that's what I loved about it.

I was very intentional about making sure that like the way each stanza was structured had a purpose.

But I didn't want to say I'm teaching you this.

For example, Parker the pig.

Parker's my oldest son.

He's the first character.

He uses yoga as a way to take care of himself as self care.

So we're describing his personality as someone who's very giving, giving and loving.

But then he takes care of himself by doing child's pose.

And at the end of the book, I'm not sure.

I think this is in the ebook as well, where I have resources at the back of the book.

Yes.

And we're going to get into that because I don't want to give too much away because we're going to talk about it and you're going to understand this next question.

So we're going to have a little fun with your own self looking in the mirror.

Which character would you be from your book, and why?

Oh, that's a good question.

To be honest, I think that I'm a little bit of all the characters are in me in some way.

But if I had to pick, the first one that comes to my mind is Rosie the rag doll who does mountain pose.

You can tell I've read this book, like, hundreds of times.

I know by heart she gets nervous to sing in front of a crowd.

And so she takes a moment to stand in mountain pose.

And the purpose of mountain pose is to be grounded and to feel the ground beneath your feet and to be present.

And in the stanza, it says to be quiet in mountain and breathe.

I have anxiety.

I used to do theater, and I was a performer as a kid, but I would also be nervous.

But I loved it.

And I feel like I really relate to the Rosie the ragdoll character.

At the little Marley, like young Marley was very much like that.

And so using tools like breathing and feeling grounded and present are really what helped me get through moments where I might feel overwhelmed and anxious and scared, but still really want to do it.

Love that.

And just so everyone understands, Marley, as she's mentioned, has these resources at the back of the book.

And the question I just asked her is in a section on one page.

And that's one of the questions.

And I thought, okay, Marley, I'm gonna flip the switch on you throwing a.

Question back at me.

I want to talk about the theme in your book and the central teaching, because we've got all these animals, we've got these different poses that mean something significant.

So talk to us a little bit about the theme or the central teaching that you're trying to convey from the book.

The central teaching of the book is helping kids learn to pay attention to their inner world and to listen and honor all of their feelings and to be open minded to things that might be hard for them and the ways that they can work on those areas that are hard for them.

And helping kids to learn new skills that will help them persevere and build resilience, which is one of the skills through life.

And also make kids feel validated that all these animals, every single animal, has a struggle.

And every single animal uses yoga as a tool to help them through that struggle.

And the struggles are all different, like patience, balance, self care.

So there's a wide range of it's a struggle and it's a skill.

Both at the time.

That's what I loved about your book, and that's what I want the audience to know is that Marley adds a ton of value at the back of the book because as Marley's mentioned, she talks about the social emotional skills.

And the nice thing about it, you go, you don't go into too much depth because it's a children's book.

You have these discussion questions.

And that's why just a moment ago, I asked Marlee one of her discussion questions to have some fun with her.

And then I love how you did the notes to the caregivers.

And when I think Marley, when you say caregivers, it's parents.

And it's.

It's really to be inclusive of everyone caring for children.

And you also have a Scan me page.

So talk to us a little bit about the scammy page.

When I made that scammy page, it was really to direct people to my website where I have some additional free resources.

One thing I will say, I think I. I may have indicated something about videos on my website, which I was planning to do with my son, and they are not on my website.

Full disclosure, but.

But I just wanted to direct people to my website because I do have free resources on there.

Even the page where I list the 14 social emotional skills in the book, I created a free download.

So if anyone wants to download and print as a poster to reference any of those skills.

That section was important to me, particularly thinking about educators, because I really was picturing this being really valuable in classrooms and for parents and caregivers too, obviously.

But I think it was just important for me to provide context for parents to understand the intention behind every single page so that they could have conversations with their kids about it.

And for older kids, like I have read in older classrooms where they've asked me to read about the 14 social emotional skills and older, it's written in a way that older kids can understand, but it's not really necessarily intended to read all of it because it's a lot of information.

And I want to jump in a bit to your writing process because we've had a lot of discussion.

You talked about your passionate about writing and you've written your children's book and you're doing other writing.

But talk to us about.

Because now you've.

It seems you've got a pretty busy life with also the publishing side of it.

Tell us how writing is now taking on a role in your busy life.

It's an excellent question.

I don't have very much time for writing these days, if I'm being honest.

I actually have written a dozen children's books that I also keep in my notes and had originally started Garden Wolf Publishing to publish all of them.

But because of how things just organically went in the publishing direction of working with other authors, I didn't publish any of those other books, but I did.

I publish a series of five books with my two kids that aren't on my website, that I just did as another passion project this year with my kids.

Just like how you were saying, like you worked with your grandkids and it's so special to have that.

And I gave them the bylines on the book.

They were very excited about it.

I did that type of writing and it's a very silly book.

It's a totally different approach.

And so I love being silly.

And I really had fun in the process working with my kids to just channel my inner child with my kids.

I did join a writers group earlier in the year to try to give myself space to have time to dedicate to being creative.

And I did a lot of free writing and just like creative brain dumping.

And I really enjoyed doing that.

And I haven't done that in a while and I miss it.

I'm going to take you back.

I'm going to take you back on a little bit of a journey and I'm going to pull you forward.

When you first published your children's book, tell us about what was your vision of success and then bring us forward to now where your book has taken on a different role.

You've started your own publishing company and now you're helping other children's book authors so the audience can hear there's been an evolution.

But I need you to step back and try and think back to what you thought success would look like when you first published your first book.

Yeah, that's such a good question.

Because that definitely evolved originally.

And I thought about this specifically.

I remember thinking, like, what does success look like for me?

And it was never selling tons and tons of books that would be nice.

Like, for me, like, breaking even on my investment was a goal.

But that wasn't success in my mind when I first started.

It was being true to myself and creating a final product that I was really proud of and that I believed in and that I felt I had really given my all and done everything I could to do it in a way that was very true and authentic to me.

And I did.

I feel like I as.

As soon as my book was printed and I held it in my hands, that was success because it was everything I had hoped for and more.

If you went back and listened to every single podcast episode, what we've had.

It's about 95% of the answer that I get on original success is just having that published hard copy book in your hand and turning the pages.

That's how it all starts.

Bring us forward now.

Because when you first opened up namuste and you looked at it, I don't.

I'm not sure if you were thinking, oh, wow, now I'm going to use my book and I'm going to help a ton of children's book authors bring their book to life.

Definitely.

Not definitely.

So bring us forward now and what success looks like to you.

What is success going to look like now?

Do you mean, like, from a publishing standpoint?

Well, you think about it is that you've evolved.

I know you're a published children's book authority, but it's now.

I don't want to say it's taken a back seat, but.

No, it has, though.

It has.

If I'm right.

And then that's what I'm trying to get at is I just want.

I want to publish children's book authors to understand that your book takes on different roles and takes you in different directions.

In your case, it took you to a role of becoming a publishing house and helping other children's book authors.

So tell us, what will that success look like to you now?

Yes.

So the interesting thing is that success in that role is very similar, almost exactly the same, except regarding the book for the author that I'm working with.

And in the same way that success was creating my book, that was authentic to me, that was true to myself, that felt.

Felt like I was holding a book version of me and everything that's important to me as a publisher, success is that for the author that I want to help that author achieve their dream and help them to figure out what are the most important things to them, to be in the book, visually, in every element, and just help them create something that they're so thrilled with at the end.

And that also I am proud and to put my publishing logo on.

And that's very important to me to.

To make sure I work with people who have the same quality standards that I do.

Yeah, it's pretty similar, but really just helping them have that feeling that I gave for myself.

Terrific.

That leads me to my next question, and that is advice for aspiring children book authors from.

Not so much from a publishing aspect in terms of your role as a publisher, but your advice to aspiring children's book authors as an.

I would say that number One, I think it's very important to take a bit of time to educate yourself about your options because it can be a bit overwhelming the industry.

And I know because I've navigated it too, from a position of really not knowing very much at all.

And I think that just taking a little bit of time to read and learn about what your different options are and also evaluating what resources you have and be honest with yourself about it.

And when I say resources, I'm referring to time and budget, because both are important resources and something that I always tell people when they come to me and are talking to me about maybe wanting to publish a book, I always tell them about the different publishing paths because whether or not they work with me, like, they need to find what's right for them, because I don't think any path is right or wrong.

I think that they all can be great and they all cannot be a good fit.

It depends on the person.

So I think it's figuring that out and just.

You don't want to put yourself in a bad financial situation and you want to be honest about your time availability because it does take time and dedication.

If you don't have any time and you don't have any budget, then just be realistic.

It's maybe not the time right now to start, but start thinking about how you can create that for yourself to make it happen.

Great advice.

So encouragement for readers.

Why should children's book readers purchase your book?

I think that somebody who's purchasing a children's book at all clearly appreciates the value of a children's book.

So I like you already.

And I think that the value of my book of Nammoo Stay is many different layers.

Number one, kids love copying what animals are doing.

And so if you're getting the book for a child, it's going to help them move their bodies.

Because I've never read the story where a child isn't itching to copy the poses.

And when I do readings at schools, I have to tell them, wait till I finish reading.

We're going to go through all the poses after.

Because it's hard to, like, do the pose and then sit down and read and then do the.

I learned that.

Yeah, absolutely.

I can.

I can understand that.

But it's also really fun because at the.

At the end of every page, the animal says namaste with their animal sound.

So the kids love animal sounds.

And it's just fun.

I think that there are many different depending on your priorities.

You can get so many different things from the book.

Whether you want something just super light hearted and fun or if you want to get your kids moving or if you want to teach them social emotional skills and learn about the tools like breathing.

Like you can get so many different things depending on what you want to take out of it.

Thank you.

So, Final Thoughts Marley, is there as you think about being a children's book author?

Is is there any question or thought you'd like to share that maybe I didn't ask you or we didn't delve into?

I feel like you were very thorough.

Honestly.

You asked a lot of really good questions.

Nothing came to mind.

I feel like you really covered the breadth of the experience, to be honest.

Marley, thank you so much for being a guest on the Adventures in the Heart of Children's Book Authors Podcast.

Your generosity of time and your insights will significantly benefit aspiring authors and readers.

We promise our audience will provide you with the links to Marley's website, her book, and her social media.

And if you've enjoyed this episode, please hit the subscribe button to listen to future episodes and feel free to share this episode with anybody inspired by or who enjoys hearing about Marley and her children's book, Namus Day.

Thanks Marley.

Thank you so much.

Rick.