Bayan on Demand offers a growing library of courses taught by highly regarded scholars and practitioners, designed for meted board members, school administrators, imams, chaplains, youth workers, parents, and more with classes on Islamic theology, adolescent development, non-profit management, and the history of Islam in America and more. Bayan on Demand provides accessible knowledge for just $10 a month. Join our growing community of learners today and support the work of Baan Islamic Graduate School and the Muhammad Ali Scholarship. Go to Bayan online.org. That's B-A-Y-A-N online.org to get more information. As Salaamu Alaikum, may the peace that only God can give be upon you. I'm your host Imam Tariq El-Amin. Welcome to the American Muslim Podcast, presented by Bayan on Demand. Our guest today is Habib Kadri, an award-winning educator, author, and youth advocate. Currently the superintendent of MCC Academy and part-time faculty at Harvard University. He has impacted education worldwide through thousands of lectures, consulting and community service. Welcome to the American Muslim Podcast. My brother As Salaamu Alaikum.

Wa Alaikum As Salaam.

Well, we thank you for taking the time to have a conversation with us and share. We always start by letting our guests know. We invite them to be as open, as transparent, as vulnerable as they are comfortable being and sharing a bit of their journey. So can you take us back to your early years and. Tell us what was it or who was it that inspired you to pursue a career in education?

I think it's kind of unique. so my father and my dad, came in 1960. So he was at Oklahoma State University for one year. It was kind of tough sitting in one side of classroom not getting a job opportunity. So he moved to Kansas State. And so he was kind of part of you know, the MSA. So when he got into Chicago, and started Chicago, they were part of the Sunday school. So the first Sunday school used to be in Gary, Indiana, but that used to be the headquarters of MSA. They used to drive from the city, and he used to, and I always wonder why he came to the city of Chicago because from Kansas State in the summer, all the, the students, especially the immigrant Muslim students, used to come to Chicago so they could find a job. you know, being bus boys and so on and so forth in downtown. And so my parents both taught Sunday school for, 50 years masha'Allah. So that maybe was my first group, like parents involved. Then when I came into the field, I have to say, teachers played a big part. I became a social studies teacher, Mr. Earl in eighth grade. used to always wear suits, and he used to play basketball with us at the, you know, recess come around, shoot the baskets. So I always felt like, man, you know, he is a cool guy. I wanted social studies because of him. I wear suits every day if you see people see me at school, right? and just 'cause I always felt like this guy's just crisp to the point. And so I think that kind of came my first kind of option, hey there someone that made a big impact. You know, you always have your elementary teachers who you like, but some, you know, when you're in that middle school years. And for me, that played a big part in education. And then in middle school, I got to play basketball at North Park College. I mean, our North Park, was like a church. There was a church school, Ray Whitson, he was only 21, but he coats us 13, 14 year olds, right? he was gonna be, become a pastor at North Park University. But the idea of him just to kind of embrace his, Hey, you know, let us play with, you know, let, letting me play with them. I felt man, that was just another guy just making impact, like motivating mentoring. So I was like, I like this idea. So when I was in high school, I was like the Big brother, big sister program, played ball. So that played a big part. And then I think another one in my high school career would be Dr. Gazda, who saw me pray on the side. He is man, you're really practicing. So he's the guy who sponsored, uh, to guide him and said, Hey, you know what, if you need to pray, don't you guys, and we talked about fifth, he goes, you guys prayed five times? He goes, yeah, and you know, Juma. So we used to pray juma at a kid's house after school who lived clo closer to school, some of the Muslim brothers from Vonte. So we started the first Juma prayer in public high school at Von Steuben in 1991. And he sponsored it voluntarily. And he said, I'll watch him 'cause we need to have a sponsor and talk to the principal. So Dr. Gods, who later on became the principal of the school too before, after I left, kind of had that. So just the idea of how a person could impact you spiritually from athletic standpoint and just the idea of just academics. so those were kind of my three up to high school that played a major part. And, you know, from the academia side and then from, you know, from the spiritual side, you know, Sunday school teachers, but min Muslim youth through North America was a big thing to me. Imam's, sage back in the days because most of the items I knew were from back home were like, you know, how to connect. mail Lord, reward that man. I mean, I, me, so it's a huge part. I, me.

so you were a ball player, you were, you played for Von Steuben. Yes, sir. And so one of the things that I think many people recognize that, especially at that age, that it's really difficult to be, independent. it's difficult, you know, we are more likely to try to blend into the crowd. We don't wanna stand out. And here you are on the side of the court praying.

Yeah.

So what were some of the things for you that helped you to have that kind of, confidence, that kind of independence at such a young age?

I mean, I have to give it to my, my, my parents, you know, both, you know, they were quite involved in the community and the idea of being proud. I was still nervous. So my freshman year in high school, I was kinda like, you know, I'm gonna go home and pray. But sports played such a big part. So Vonte had no football team. Basketball, was it? By my sophomore year, I got to play varsity and hamma. I did, you know, somewhat, you know, played well. Where are your legend? Hamma? Yeah. Yeah. I saw the article. so and so with that played a ca I mean, that was a catapult, right? Because that gave me confidence, okay. You know, I'm captain by junior, senior, you know, junior, senior year. I was averaging double digits all three years. so I had that, opportunity and I got to play like at a, you know, back then au Circuits knock. I was there, it was only a few teams. So I used to go practice at Carini Green. I would have to take the Olive and and I think Sedgwick Park, and so on North Avenue. And so I remember Larry be, the coach would pick me up on the train station, get me what, how to get practice. So that gave me just confidence, like, all right, I could be a part. And that gave me platform just to speak my comfortable enough to say. So my sophomore year I was like, you know, I'm gonna start praying. And then that's where I was like, Hey, I'm gonna be confident of who I am. And you know what also hopped at that time was the nineties. Malcolm X came out my sophomore, junior year of the movie. Then you got a public enemy representing, you know, Islam, right? So you had a lot of, you had the five percenters and all that. So it was kind of like. You know, people like, and then even individuals like the, you, like the Vice Lords and Four Corners, they used Fat had in some of their, you know, j Jeff o you know, some of kin. So there's a little, again, I'm not promoting it, but I'm saying, so kids had parcel things. So now my whole team was, guys from fte, everyone came from all over, It was like, it was one of those where you have to apply to get into school. So I had individuals from everywhere and my whole basketball team mostly lived on the west side and the south side. So I kind of had, you know, so it was kind of these conversations. Two of the brothers became Muslim, you know, about my senior year. So that played, I think that helped me because that something I'd be like, okay, platform. I'm confident enough to say something about it. and then from there I was like, okay, how do I get others to kind of buy into it? And so social stuff that was going on at the, at the hip hop world, the movie by sports, you know, and I mean, again, unless tophi that happened that, and I always felt man, you know, how do I become, and my father always said, he goes, look, when you have that platform, you could have a platform to make change. Or you could just sit there and just be like, be the norm. And so I think for him, you know, being a part of the MSA in sixties and all these small things, I'm like, all right, you know what, let's take that. and now then I always felt you know, 'cause you know, when I grew up, I got picked on, even when I up playing ball, everywhere I went, there was always some comment. I remember foreman in high school playing basketball, and this is person golf war right? In the nineties. So I'm like a sophomore having a good game. They all start chatting. U-S-A-U-S-A, there's, you know, 'cause they're like, Hey, Saddam, there's like Saddam's there, right? So they used to call me Saddam coming in. you know, just getting all the time, Hindu, you know, whatever. In the movie Gandhi came on when I was in the elementary, especially where we, where I went to elementary school, we were like the first Indians to move into that neighborhood, right? So they used to bus in an Afro-American bus and a lot of, other, like Southeast Asian kids. So when I lived there, the first, so there was a lot kinda picked. So when I felt like I had a, you know, like a spot to make it easy for others. So that's why I remember my junior, senior year, I'd be like, all All these Muslim kids make sure any problems you gotta tell me. You know, how do you keep everyone in check? and I'm telling you, B Ball gave that credibility that's why I have so much love for my coaches.

So you were put in a position of leadership, through sports somehow? Yes. and that translated into, basically into the social, network as well. A hundred percent.

I mean, I was captain. I mean, I'm just kind of, just for the sake of information, I hope doesn't come off like I'm bragging, but Yeah. in middle school I was a captain of the JV basketball team Of, of the park district. and it kind of gave, and so we played up. So then that's where I, you know, I was like, okay, that then, you know, I was part of the big Brother sister, you know, program. So that idea of Sunday school taught Sunday school, so like another kind of, kind of thing. And maybe that it is kind of lead into something else. But I used to complain about Sunday School. Oh, really? And and I was like, you know, my father, my dad said, look, we're trying our best. So when I was 14, when I graduated Sunday school in ninth grade, my dad said, well, don't you do something about it, like uptake, complaining. So I taught preschool, pe a kindergarten, first graders as an aide. Then I became a teacher, second, third grade, then later on. So that kind of, kind of got me into that involved and community said, well, you know, you could be a complaint on, you know, everyone always complains, even deal with the community, You be the community. Everyone's always on the side. The Monday, you know, you know, Monday morning quarterback, the Sunday morning quarterback for Jim, my quarterback always got this didn't go right. so I was like, all So that kind of played me that path of like sports and kind of, the credibility and I'm allowed just in its own ways, made it happen.

So leaders definitely have to be able to, or at least effective leaders, have to be able to, analyze themselves, be able to look at what they're doing, to see what works, what's not working. At what point did you recognize your own ability to, to lead?

I, I. And it is funny because I was a shy guy, a shy kid. When I was young at home, I was creative. so my dad, we didn't watch too much TV at home. So I used to kind of, and I had a sister who's five years older than me, so I used to make up games thinking I'm playing basketball, throw the ball, jump on the sofa. You know, cats like, so especially back then, we had no phone. so I had this creativity and my mom, and it is funny, my dad never knew of my jokes. Like in middle school, you know, camps and stuff. I started doing like skits. So a guy named Zerman was a comedian that you might have known Zerman. And so we used to do skits together, improv, and so that's why I kind of knew, I had okay, some form where I could speak, feel confident, but yeah, I, if it had to be something sports because right when the coach was like, I could get people together, people kind of listen and maybe me being the only like ethnic student, you know, kid to, and to have that respect at the school that kind of be like, okay, wait a minute, Allah's giving me something. And my dad's look, you know, sometimes a lot gives you some qualities. Are you gonna use it for the good or not? And that's where I was like, all right, how do we navigate? and then the idea of was like, okay, learning from others. And I think I always, you know, my mom always told me, every person you see, there's something you can learn from. And I've always tried to look at someone, something you don't want. Like even my parents say there's good in us and there's bad in us. So the good take from it and the things you don't like about it improve on it. and that's something I kind of realized. And so I think that's what I kind of started realizing. So by the time I went to MSA, so at the, in the Muslim club, how to give the, I was like, you know, like how to train ourselves, right? Because if you're gonna make things happen, and so the MSA part of the MSA part of minimal meet the North American Hospital. But my junior senior year, then I started realizing, all right, you know, unless I think I got have something. But you never know how it manifests as when you have others encourage you. And I think that played a big part of our, like the minute camps where you, where they let the youth, that's, you know, four youth buy youth, so you have to make all the phone calls to the campsite and all that. I mean, this is old school mailing stuff, writing letters. So you build these like skill sets.

So Minna was also really a big part of your formation.

You know, for me, because a lot of the, I grew up grew by, you know, like they, many of the first Oma were from back home. So they're like, what is this playing sports like? So like I didn't watch too much tv. You know, I had that radio, you sneak and listen to the radio and your dad does it, you know, can't hear you. B 96 you had one 7.5 WGCI don't triple dot that I, that's all Chicago people would know that one. That's right. So top nine at nine. so you would sneak, you know, sneak that radio. So it was like, you know, even like the Bulls games, I listen to 'em on the radio. You know, you know, because, so it was really this idea of, you know, this experience of. of life of kind of figuring things out and just kind of navigating through 'em. So it was funny.

Now, you said Mr. Earl was a big, was a big inspiration for you. Yes. So that, I would imagine that was just in general, you say, man, I wanna be a teacher. I wanna be in education. Yes. When did the specificity start to present itself for you as to what area of education? and es especially as it relates to educational leadership. When did that, come about for you?

Yeah, so because of, you know, high school, you know, I was kind of involved in leadership roles, college, I was MSA, then I knew I wanted to go to education and I have to, you know, so how lot, most people, especially in our community would become like engineers, doctors, right? It was kinda like that. You right. My sister, she was a, like top five in her high, but my dad let her go to social work, right? He's look, what can we help the community? So my parents were the few, I was like, you know, son, and we still remember. I have no problem if you go into this field, but bring back the nobility and their Noble Pro profession. if you're gonna do it, you gotta go hardcore. you don't want people to be like, ah, you know, he's just a community kid. You know, they just, you know, they don't want to go full force. So he just thought he could do this. So I think that played a big part. So I knew, because I was always working with kids, did camps, did run haahs at the, you know, at the ji like first part of the haah then, you know, you know, doing stuff. So then I realized, hey, this could be something I like, and my parents did push back. They say, Hey, just go full force. So that kind of helped. But I knew I wanted to be a principal, so I liked teaching so studies, but I was like, Hey, I want to kind of point where you can make changes. So I, you know, worked in Chicago public schools and Detroit public schools, you know, and so my whole thing was to kinda move fast. So I was like, okay, I wanna teach, do my master's at night, be part of the director of afterschool activities, what I could do. 'cause I, you know, I felt like I had some, you know, parts of, kind of some leadership skills. So building those skills. And that's why I was telling people who are listening for young. S those things are running clubs, being a part helps build life skills. And so by the time you get to the workforce, you have some of these things that majority of other people don't have, right? Those social te and technical skills. 'cause everyone could be smart, cognitive, but those that hustle. The other things, like we, I remember we started a company called Salon Wear when 1516. We wore you know, like lumm shirts, like back in the days and sold them at isna. you know, like small little kind of, you know, businesses you try to do. So I realized having those skill sets, talking to people, trying to sell to people, you're work, you're working on life skills. And I think that kind of all kind of came into place and in education I always felt man, you know, where, you know, where, when I, 'cause I used to practice that, you know, the other thing was a project education plus if anyone lives in Chicago, please support that. Organization's been there for 50 years. that Mr. Carter where, when I used to practice for travel team, so I used to tutor in college there. Yeah. In Ka green, they back before they turned, they, to turned out the projects. So a lot of my thought was, you know, impact and I felt man, you know, you know, we just need people to really help out individuals go through life lessons and, you know, growing pains. And so I always felt that was something I wanted to do. And Hamal, I just kept on going into Hatfield.

What's your vision for education?

So for me it's, I, there's I think four parts for me, right? So one part becomes, there's this cognitive, I want to, okay, you want, you wanna give them, you know, the life tools, To be successful in this world. But it's not just this idea of hey, just knowing stuff, remote learning, like learning or just rote memory. But the other part, I feel like education is the social emotional development of people. Now they're kind of picking this up and saying, I. Hey, being conscious of what's going on in the world from a social stu ju justice standpoint, having empathy for people, understanding that you're not just here for making sure you are taken care of, but how do you make sure you take care of God's creation? I always tell our kids, if you help God's creation, God will help you. And I think that became a, that aspect of building these life skills. So that's why for me, I always say, when I came to Islamic education, I said, look, we're giving the necessary tools so that they can become productive citizens in this society, but also productive, not productive, but the citizens agenda, right? You're trying to give 'em both these skill sets and then a lot of it's, and our dean is mostly about good character and mah dealing with individuals, right? So Salah will take care of em. You gotta take those foundations. But if we could just tell 'em about life skills and stuff, I think that was kind of huge. And from my own experience where some of the, when I met I was like, man, they're just so rigid, so tough. And so that always did, just didn't felt right to me. So then finally I was like, you know, how can we come back to how the prophet was? You know? and I think that's kinda that changed. So it's funny because on Fridays I dress up, so I have like costumes. I'll be Batman, Superman, I might just have different, panda hat. So I'm dressed up in various ways. So when I first came to an Islamic school from a public school,

yeah,

right. There was like seven principals in the first 14 years. you know, Fridays I'm like, hey. And so now when I'm dressing up, I know kids are gonna say, they're like, gimme high fives. oh, Mr. K, you're so silly. You're the silly principal. So some parents, 'cause many of the parents when I first started there, there were, you know, back home and they're like, brother, you know, you know, you know, back home when we saw our principal, we would look down, right? And we'd be fear scared of him. We'd be fear. I said, they're like, okay, you know, but you know, you know, I think you're being too friendly because they're not gonna respect you. I said, I know that you respected your principles out of fear, but. First of all, that's not my culture. I said, my culture is our prophet Saam, and you tell me when Haddi, that the prophet walked around and all the kids ran away from him, and they looked down. They all wanted to be by him. Everybody wanted to be by him. So I said, I'd rather have kids wanna respect me outta love and not outta fear. And that's, we gotta come back to what makes it, what makes the, our dean beautiful is to have these interactions and making the, you know, you know, smiling, seeing 'em at the door, and kind of have that, because the only time you see Mr. Re is when they're in trouble. If I don't, if I like doing parking duty, because I could see the parent sound go, how you doing? How go there? And that's the only time I see them is Hey, what's going on? Like, when I was in Detroit Public Schools every week I used to call two parents. I'm like, Hey, so go, I mean, sorry. Hey, how you doing Mrs. Mrs. Johnson. She was like, she was, you're telling me like, wait. Tyrone, I'm just wanna tell you, I'm just excited to have Tyrone in my CL like. Wait a minute, he's not in trouble. I'm like, no, I'm just wanna call you. He's you're the first person I ever called just to say positive. I was like, I just wanna start off, you know, with a, you know, a positive relationship. Just wanna tell you if there's anything you need. And I think what we have to do is that human nature of what brought everyone to our dean is the prophet's character. Yes. The revelation was wa he, that's the biggest miracle. But the other miracle is that everyone loved the prophet. And then I think that's where, you know, I feel that's a new form education we need to do is like inculcating the that, not to just to sit on the outside, which is important. No, I'm not. I'm please anyone who hears this, I'm not. But man, if we could just be just people like, I like being around this person. This person's good, this person's always smiling because smile, being religious doesn't mean you can't smile. That's right. And that's when I grew up, that's how like the culture was. It was like, you just, Allah doesn't want you to do this. And the more religious you're Sam, right? Oh, And I was like, so and so that was that whole kind of changing philosophy of like the truth are beyond in character.

What were some of the challenges that you had and going from, public school to an Islamic school?

Oh, yes. Yeah. So for Islamic schools, as you said, so there's, and especially in the nineties, those are growing pains. Growing pains, right? Yeah. That seven principles in the first 14 years, there's every two years. Right now, even average Islamic school principal is like four years, right? You're dealing with community boards. Some of 'em are not in the field of education, maybe highly successful, but that doesn't mean, you know, have that. And like you're imam you're dealing with personalities and so on and so forth. And when you're Islam school principal, you're not just, it's not just a school. Then you got religion. Like our school has 56 different countries. That means you got a lot cultural, religious standpoints too. Just kind of coming in and navigating those conversations and kind of getting everyone to move forward. And especially when you have a history of people like, oh, there's a new principal. I had to just change the climate and culture even to a point I first year I remember saying, all right, sister. and so brother said, we're stopping that. This is not Sunday school. We're gonna So Mr. Mr. So and just to change that and say, okay, this is not Sunday school. This is not after school loo program. This is not youth group. We're gonna change some systems. And I was like 26 at that time, or 27 and some of the, because I came back into the community I grew up in, so I knew a lot of the people. So many of 'em were aunties to me. So I remember I said eight to four, I'm gonna call you Mr. So and Mr. So and after four o'clock, I'll call you Auntie Soandso. You know, they're like, Hey beta. You know, I'm like, okay, after four you can call me beta. All you like, I have no problem, but we're gonna change, you know, kind of have that. So climate culture was one people buying into like we could become great. Like I've had the opportunity to go to Exeter visit like some of the top. middle schools that, Andovers, like even Harvard, how does Harvard become Harvard? How does Notre Dame become Notre Dame? So all went through the growing pains. And so our thing is if we can stick it through work, hard work, we could become who we can because the sister Clara Muhammad schools Mela bless her. She's they're, it's not, she's the og. Yeah. And the idea is if you could have an opportunity where edu great education and also give them self-worth and a strong understanding of who they are, that's a game changer. That's what has to happen. And so that's where I was like, look, we have to buy into assignment schools that academically, oh, we could go to this school district. I'm like, we could do it. Our subs, if we all pitch in and buy into this, it can't happen. It can't happen because we got the talent we have, you know, and slowly we can build, get the resources and at the end we have a lot on our side. you know, I always tell our kids we do our best. Al will take care of the rest. we just can't limit ourselves. And then saying, and that's where, you know, I had the opportunity to go see, Mosam. Like I, I remember in 2006 I went to this visit. can I just see what, why not what, what's happening? What's the development? You know, how can we take improve? And I think we have to all learn from each other what people have done in the past, what communities have done in the past, and how do we keep moving forward and making, and my whole thing is not just making our community better, the society, right? you know, for me, I'm like, I'm American, right? And I like the podcast, we, American Muslims, right? Muslim Americans, however people wanna call it Muslim American Muslim. But the idea is my cultural habits are a lot more American than they might be Indian. But faith dictates my life and about how do we, and there's nothing wrong for us. so stuff like challenges during the 4th of July parade, people are like, oh my god. Having Native Dean do a concert, some parents go, you know, you know, our, just different, we had, za Bika, all these people, like changing people's thought process. Okay. How do we balance respecting both sides? But, and saying, okay, we're trying to move forward for that, that Muslim American experience.

You know, it's interesting that you say, respecting differing, opinions, you know, without necessarily favoring one or another. Yeah. But has there been situations where in respecting and recognizing those differing opinions that it's led to a sort of a paralysis? Or how do you avoid that?

Yeah. and that's why even for example, at our school, we might say, Hey, we are Sunni Muslims, so we have Shia students. We say, Hey, they could come, but we are, we're just going to teach the C of the prophet through all khalifas. And that's how it's gonna be. and the she. And now when, then when they pray, we say, Hey, you're welcome to pray. You can put your hands down. We have no problem. 'cause kids are, you know, different schools of thought. But even for Shafi, I just kinda have that. We say, Hey, everything's there. But we said, Hey, you know, the one of 'em, when they put the the car, the stone, we said, okay, that one, hey, that's gonna, we feel, hey, that might be a little bit too much. You want a piece of paper or whatever. There's ways, how do we accommodate, but we still have to say these are our parameters. Hey, so for example, give and take, we had native dean in all these, speaker, musicians. But we said, okay, it only can be duff drums, right? We're not gonna let them play any guitar and stuff and say that, that, you know, like, how do we go in between to kind of still make sure that's there, but that means we decided here's our two, three scholars and we're gonna go with them. 'cause if I go, everyone brings their fatwas, we're gonna go nuts. I can't. So how do you say, okay, this is what we're gonna do. This is how our process is gonna stand from religious standpoints. So when you have even those kids with meat, they said. Oh my. You know, some parents might be hardcore eha, right? And then you might have someone who's gonna drop off some McDonald's, you know, chicken, chicken nuggets,

right?

And you got a first grader. I'm talking about a first grader, and sometimes parents I can't believe you. I was like, at first grade's oh my God, what are you eating? But Bob said, that's hurrah, right? And now we have to have a navigated conversation that parents like, are we teaching that our school? I'm like, no, we are not. We're gonna say, Hey, we promote when we're providing food Zaha at school. We say, look, there are different schools, but even at first grade, they're too young to have that. But some parents make that and you know, that little kid becomes like the, you know, the Muslim police, right? so that's where we have to have these and say, Hey, you know what? This is sometimes to happen. This is how we, what our conversations is. And then we wanna say, this is in the circle of our dean. There are different views. This is what we're, you know, and we're even in our, in, in SUNY Islam, we're teaching mostly hundred vfi, but we explain all the other fix too. And say, Hey, if you're raising your hand, you put your hands up here, or our, or you say. You know, you know, one time another ham and you say twice, Hey. And we give people both options just to kind of, to grow in that path, especially living here. Even my father says, he goes, I learned more about Islam here than I learned back home.

Because it

opens your eyes to everything

because of the, diversity. Yes. so education, we often hear it said education is transformational. how has your pursuit of education, and then I would even add the application of what you've learned, how has that transformed you?

Yeah. You know, I think one is that you're always learning, right? Education. My, my whole thing is every day you're kind of picking up. That's why, you know, one thing I always say that you learn from everyone, right? And then you could pick up what things you could do, what things you're not to do, what we think are better. So that's why I think I realized one thing for me, you know, is always reflecting, like all profits reflected. You know, I just, we just kind of finished this one book called Prophetic Leadership. And so the first chapter I kind of thought about was Hey, the prophets all used to sit and kind of self-reflect. And I feel like in education you will always have to say what can we do to become better? What are we not doing? And then, so that's why, because kids change too. So the idea is that hey, a child from 20 years ago, a kid now, and now you have to be more soft skills. you know, kids are more, were tough love when we grew up. Anyone uncle could say, tell me anything. It'd be like, it's done now. You gotta be like, oh, my kid. Child's feelings could be hurt how he's there. So you gotta be very careful what it's said, how it's said, what could get triggered. But I'm just saying, I can't believe this. I'm saying, okay, that's how it is. How do I navigate our conversations? And training ourselves to say, okay, the demographics of the students, the personalities of the students, the, their thought process, the ideologies, and we have to do that. So even now, Islamic studies classes where we now talk about existence of God in seventh, eighth grade, where because we see that's like the ideologies becoming more and more popular in college. So we say we gotta get our kids foundational stuff. It's Simon social issues. When we wrote like the whirlwind and the hearts book and brought it into school like seven to eight years ago, like pornography, they're like, how to carry you Simon Scholar School schools ripped that pages off. I said, look, whatever ones you feel comfortable to use. Use, But I'm like, this is reality. But now even stuff like gender issues and LBGT, we're like, okay, we have to have these conversations. Not even eighth grade, even fourth, fifth grade. So people have to realize, hey, things have to change. Educational topics might be changing to when it's gonna be changed to what age? Things are changing. And I think that's the idea of always being flexibility and being transformative and being adaptive to the groups of individuals that we're working with to the parents and the community and what's going on, at large, right? Of how do we respond? Even political issues. What do we say? How do we say, when do we say be careful? What have that, what's going on? How do our mind should think? And I think, and really also understanding more than ever before that you are in this country and we pray for this country. We have love for this country, and how do we make this country better? It should be our thing just like our own community and our own families.

So when you talked about Harvard and, culture and any elite institution, an institution that is kind of synonymous with excellence, what have you brought to and learned from being in those spaces?

the, you know, one of the beauties and allah's blessings that I have the opportunity to be there and still be there and is. This idea of on constantly learning and going, they're always looking at the newest research and what I've always liked about it, it's research and then put it into practical. So my job is a lot of that, the tenure professors is how to break that down to practitioners. And then kind of having synergy. So we go, like every year we go and visit different states. Like we went to New Orleans schools, Oakland schools, you know, Chicago schools. And they'll say, Hey, what are some great things that are happening? How do we share and what, you know, and out what the newest research and ongoing pursuit of not being satisfied of what, what's going on? So I think that's something like, I always kinda man, they're always thinking of, Hey, what's the newest thing? What's there? What's Ray? Hey Habib, did you read this? People are sharing articles. Which of 'em always like, all right, you know, this is great. So I think that's, that, that becomes there. The other thing is investing within. And so one of that, that networking right. Hey, you're a graduate. Hey, what do we do? How do we keep making sure that we're proud of who we are? So even like our own assignment school, our mom was we are proud that we have two of our own, alumni on our school board now. Or having about 30, 40 of our kids, kids now at our school, at least what, you know, in my last 20 years, right? Having them be volunteers for this. Like how do we have them buy into like our, that your success is our success and we want this success for the future generation. And they're kind of having, you know, that the Harvard name goes, there's Hey, how do you, why can't MC be where people say, hey, they're trying to get better and better now. oh, some schools. And I think that's where I feel like now they saw skate where the first five, 10 years, they're like, how do we just be sustainable to, hey, now let's kinda get some quality. But now it's well, how do we become elite? You know, where you want things to like. We gotta look at all that. So every five, six years we do strategic plans and say, Hey, we need counselors. We need social emotionals. We need to do that. Oh, we don't have a financial base. Well, how do we get there? How do we keep pushing ourselves to become better? And I think that's where the things I've kind of see what great schools that at least recognize as great schools is. They all started 200 years ago. Harvard started from Andover and Exeter that later on, Puritan that said, Hey, let's have our own religious, faith-based university. And it became who they are. Why can't we become like, why can't A, you know what, how Cairo, fa all these places, let us be those top universities. You know, India used to be, but why are we stopping? Why do we just kind of be like, like some of, we have some of the greatest talents working for all these great, companies. why don't they just believe in themselves and say we could do it ourselves. you know? And so I think that's, that the self, oh, you know, it's gotta be, oh, we gotta work with them. no, we gotta be proud of who we are. We have a great history. We have Allah on our side, and one way the most diverse faiths right. From all over, if we just You know, like, how do we just synergize to a next level? And I think that's something that we, you know, you know, the Harvard alums are always kind of working together. We got this bigger alum, you know, Islam. So Yeah. How do you synergize together?

Yeah.

So that's why for me, it's like Islamic schools. You know, we, we're the only, in Illinois 15, 20 years ago, we decided to have like coalition of Islamic schools together, where every two months the principals meet together. So we're not competing with each other. Let's help each other speed up our learning curve. How do we do that? You know, like something like, you know, I'm like, Hey, let's all meet together. I think we could do this. And now we build that relationship that it's not competition, it's about it know, you know, recognition and try to help each other become better.

When people are, I, I guess part of the social fabric and what we kinda get used to here is this idea of competing everything is about establishing your foothold in the marketplace, whatever marketplace you're in. So if you're in an educational marketplace, you wanna, you want to have, you wanna get all the students, right? You wanna have the long, long waiting list. But you're talking about this coalition of Islamic students, Islamic schools. What part does humility play in all of this? and is that something that, you have to be conscious of in terms of, leadership and organizing, groups? Yeah. No, I'm, you know,

it's one of the things I realize, the student of Allah to prophets wasn't easy. And I feel like you are my own massage community. Our work, it's not gonna be easy. People get frustrated and I tell people like. But why is it in corporate America someone tells you to do something? No, no problem, sir. I'll do it. because you wanna move up because you see there's a financial benefit, right? I said, and so this is where I think, is that yes, we want our schools to be good and I wanna push, and I, you know, you want people to be like, Hey, I wanna be here or be happy. But why? I was like, look, but I wanna make sure if I make others happy, because at the end, my employer is Allah. And especially in this field, universal success, all access, success, they do well. And there's something I learned from them and they learn from me. our school, we're all gonna get gen money, right? It's just gonna be the straight up you know, kind of coming in and saying, look, that happens. And that's where in saying, I'm making money with someone else's success. But it might not be, you know, like monetarily. But I think that's where that key comes there. Now, that doesn't mean boards who are listening to this, oh, you still gotta pay our people. No, no doubt about it. But this other idea of Hey, if we all come together to work together, man, it's, it, we just be rocking and rolling. Just if all countries or Muslim countries is man, we could just put our minds together. there's numbers in ours too, and the talent level. So that's where I think what's been a blessing where even my board's, like letting me go to different cities and so on and so forth. and for me it was like, Hey, can, I mean, one of the reasons, like when the, when our school won the national ward, for me, it wasn't about me. I was like, all you guys did this happen together? And for me it was, I was more excited that a Islamic schools could do this. We can academically increase our scores. We could be financially responsible, we could have a school climate and culture, right? The categories that they, we were com you know, competing. For me, I like competing against other public schools and Hey, we could be them. Like, why are we always well. The, those elites private schools? No. You, we could be those elite private schools by putting our minds together and looking at the greater good like the archdiocese and saying, well, how do we make all our schools well? So like we, we, you know, having the CNAs and the ULAs and some schools of League of America that's there. And that's why for me, when I was early in my years, I wanted to know, because the sister Clara Muhammad schools were like 70, 80. They were like, huge. So what was your success? I was trying to read up on her, right? okay, what was that philosophy and what's there, what kind of kept it going? What were the areas that, you know, what kind of stopped that process? So all these things we gotta learn from, because in saying those are things that we have to learn from our own communities, and saying, kind of building there. And I think, and we have to, you know, I, I think throughout being a social studies teacher, I. The only, the greatest way people have historically, what we've always looked at, every country organization divide and conquer. Yes. Through financial, through fame, through whatever. And God tells us about it, and we still get caught up in it. And I wanna protect myself, a pair of all of us that you know, that, you know, because, you know, you know, things come and shaan gets and things and you, that Allah makes our hearts sincere in our work. but it, and it has to because I think being a association where you see it and you hear about, we know what's happening and we still let, making it happen is just not cool.

I want to bring in, one of your works, and I think you referenced it a little bit earlier. the war within our hearts, thinking about this in terms of, leadership, all the responsibilities that you have, right? you're not a classroom teacher, right? You're superintendent and the traveling, we haven't even talked about your consulting. but from a time management standpoint, give a bit of insight for those who are also in positions of leadership, but also feel like I have something else to offer as well. How are you able to manage that?

first thing I learned from one of the sheiks, you make the, you gotta make ua, I love ika in your time. that's my first one. I would say, you gotta make dua when you go to sleep. I love ika in my sleep. So that six hour sleep is a tight, good sleep. I love Ika in my meeting before this talk. I love ika in me, you know, I help me say the right words, And I'm still gonna make a lot of mistakes, but, Having that's one. The second thing is, people always talk about time management. I'm a thing is that, that time management, it's called priority management. What's important to you? That's what's gonna happen because, so for me, it's like, there's a few things, right? So I know I, if it's not education or youth, I don't get involved. So people are like, oh, I want you to be a bear, a board on. it's not board. I'm like, if it's not in that field or unless I, that board part is to be, is in a full field, then I'm gonna be there. Or if it's not to help our community. 'cause how do people wanna get into everything, right? And I'm like, Hey, centralize where, you know, you, this is where I could be really strong at. So for me, youth education and I love sports, so that's just more of a passional thing, right? So now for me as a person, I'm like, okay, I know faith is important. So am I blocking off my 30 minutes or 40 minutes, whatever I have to do. Prayer sah, reading haddi when haddi. So I'm a small, I have my attention deficit issue. So I'm a person that might do something small, but doing consistent. So that just means read one haddi day, just read one Haddi day. If that means just reading two pages of Quran, just read two Kran, maybe Ramadan, you move it up to another whole level. But just doing certain things and saying whatever that is, right? And the idea of constant growing and the more you're in a leadership skills at, you know, thing what you know. and I think that, like Imam you know, from California, Melo, bless him, he had once kind of said, he goes, look, if you're in leadership skills, then you gotta do things where people don't know. And I said, what are those? He said, look, then that means fasting at least once a month or once a month. 'cause no one else knows if you do that or not. and I'm weak and I, I don't think doing it, but it's, I realize, and there has to be those small things that no one knows. But for me, like I realize if it's not faith, then the other thing is family, right? So now I'm like, if I'm going, that means like markups. Aah. You know, some people like, I'm gonna pray. I'm like, no, I'm gonna pray as a family, especially when they were young. Now they all high schools are everywhere, but like when at least, hey, that's Salah. We're gonna pray as a family at least Monday through Thursday. Wherever those are, hey, we have a Sunday family Holocaust and say, Hey, look, even through Zoom, wherever you are, you're still gonna lock in for 30 minutes and we're gonna have that. I feel like those kind of skill sets play a pig time exercise is important for me. So that means 30 minutes, four times a week, you got exercise, you know? you know what's funny, I was in California and your wife was there too, and she had a talk IIII get picked up and she went for good morning run. You know, like I'm, we're getting, we're leaving. I'm like, I was like, is that sister? You, And so that idea of you keep your consistent thing right because I realized when people, I was like, man, I wanna do this. I wanna do this and say, Hey, all love's give us all skill sets. So some skill sets are flyers. I'm like, look, you could be the best. Flyer for our community person. There's this one sister, she's awesome man. And that's all she does. But that's her way of giving back to the community. One person who's our accountant, he goes, he's CPA, he goes, I'm gonna volunteer and help out with our $6.9 million and that's gonna volunteer. That's what a lot you, it's in your realm, you know it well, and you're still giving to the community. And I think that's what people have to realize and saying what's there, where sometimes people are in areas that they're really not good at, but they want to be in there and it gets them frustrated and then they get arguments and stuff and saying, know your role, know where you are, and then kind of go through, I think kind of has that and, never I estimate and then put timelines on stuff. Hey, I'm gonna do this. So for me, I, that means I have to give up something. And what I give up is I don't watch too much tv. Alright? So I might watch one hour, like S-K-E-S-P-N gives me that sports center gives me everything fast. But like even now as I'm older, I don't sit there and watch the whole game as maybe when I was younger. I'll watch the last watch 10 minutes, like lot games where my son's Hey Bobby, gotta check this out. All right, I'm, you know, turning it out or just watch the YouTube for seven, eight minutes. So how do you like pick and choose where you still have your vice, but now kind of giving that or looking at that certain time. So I think that, you know, it's really, I call it priority management. What's important. You'll put those into place and that means hanging out my friends. So I, you know, I might hang out, I'll go for an hour. I said sitting out for three hours and just You know, that's just me. But that, that someone who does it, my show, more power to the people. But that it is what it is. Like I have two parents who are really old. That's my priority first. I ha, you know, for me to go three, four days a week just to be like, Hey, how's everything going? You know? So I think kind of putting those things in Shava, a love guide all of us.

I mean, I really, I love that. not time management, but priority management. absolutely.

Yes sir.

And I'm also one who I have not been able to watch a full basketball game for years. I watch the highlights. That's how I get it in, you know, 10 minutes and then I'm out.

That, and that's what it is, right? our kid at 10 15 is going to be years old, they're important. So I realize I have to step away and be like, we gotta prioritize that. I said I wanted that same moment, so I have to realize what I put out myself. You can't do that to that 20-year-old, realize that our own stages of growth.

that's right. tell us a bit about founding high quality educational consulting,

high quality education consulting. So one of the things happen is that, alhamdulilah, as you know, for a lot of how the opportunity at blessed me where I'm working at a university where it's highly respect, respected, so I was like, how do I, we help other schools? And so a lot of times I used to just volunteer my time and what happened was I realized sometimes people, they don't take it seriously and give you advice. And I'm sitting there for an hour or two did I realize, I realized I had to put a little cost to it for people to just listen a little bit. And so my whole process was how do we. Speed up the learning curve and the growing pains of schools. And that was the whole purpose of it. And so a lot of the work, we were kind of going through ourselves, working in the youth, being part of MENA and all that. So I was like, that opportunity helped out and then working overseas, right? So when we did the war within the hearts, like I went to Kenya, you know, I went to Mombasa and Nekuru and a lot of that stuff, like the same challenges that kids were having about clubs and drinks and, like drinking and girls and all that. Those were challenges I had. The whole reason we wrote the book was because when I asked Chef, why can't we do this ra, I'm like, what do you mean ra? I don't having these feelings, right? Am I the only one? And I'm telling you, when I wrote this, we've got letters from Kabul, Afghanistan, and all these kids, man, we're not the only one thinking like these challenges. And so I think that became kind of this thing. so that, so the consulting come and came was like, Hey, how we do workshops, how we have that, some do pro bono places that we can, but then someone's if I could. And sometimes when ministry is called, I was like, okay, that's where I feel like, okay, I could help out. And so that's, Hamal loves blessed me now to visit about 13, 14 countries. So I've gone to from India, Pakistan, small villages. Like it wasn't in Kenya. I did a whole presentation, like 150 ladies male to bless them. They're in the hot sun, I just have a tent, right? And they're like, they didn't have the thing for the slides. They're like, I'm like, look, they're out here listening to me. I'm gonna make this. Don't worry about PowerPoint. I will make this happen. So now with technology gotten better, I'm making small videos for everybody. So like that way when you go to places, like they had to ask me, go to Afghani. I was like, look, there's some places. I was like, you know, just for safety, security of economic videos. Because one of the things for me was also reteaching Islamic studies, you know? And especially my co consulting is not just on leadership and governance, but one of the focus, my whole thing was is when we grew up, it was like, this is ra, that's Haram. And our dean is that we have to have kids understanding. we are a generation that's asked questions and it's not something that the prophet people, how do we know what the prophet's personal life was? 'cause people ask questions. So we act oh my God, these kids in the west, we just ask 'em questions, everyone ask questions. But stuff here, people are more upfront about back home, just kids didn't do taboo as long as parents didn't know. So I have these. So I think having these conversations and stuff about what people are doing and why they're doing it, and became a big thing. So for me it was on, on the governance aspect of it, a curriculum aspect of it, but also teaching Islam studies and rethinking how do we do this? And then understanding kids and saying what's going on. So a lot of, for me, it's like now these teaching them and saying, look, you guys are the, but you guys have to also understand what's going on with kids and stuff. that's what I love about Baan right now I'm getting to deal with all these individuals who are imams now just saying, I under, you got all this knowledge, but there's this one part of. Understanding how to disseminate that to a child, right? and then sometimes words we use when we grew up like music, Haram. I'm like, I mean, music is Haram. Then I'm like, so I'm like, okay, if listening to Zane Bika or Yu of Islam is Haram, then why not listen to Tupac? It doesn't matter. I'm like, fine, I'm gonna get Ssed C if I'm listening to cussing anyway. Sin, whatever. So not understanding and breaking things down. So that's why even went to, I'd be like, well, let's break that down to a kid and say, is words Haram? No words R together. Haram, no words rhyming together with, some rhythm. No. Okay. Some, okay. Some people might have this about instruments. Fine. That's a, that's one conversation. But we're rhyming together with message. Is that how I, no spoken words. Okay. Some songs are okay. Words, you know, that go against God's commandments are, you know, are rules. Okay. Now when you break it down, a kid like that're like, oh. That's the thing, right? Like we just, we go bluntly on a comment without breaking things down. Then you start questioning God. That's why my biggest worry like, and have that. So that's what this whole consulting kind of company came in. So many parts was leadership and helping out school, but they're also kind of rethinking and having these conversations and saying, Hey, we have to, also looking at growing up here, being A, you know, a first generation looking at certain, seeing the co conversations and talking about stuff that people don't really wanna talk about and how do we kind to answer these in proper ways? And Ella, bless now, you know, you have the, and all these kind of make things more practical and kind of have that, and then you'll see aah bless all you Imam and all the work you guys are doing just to make change. Because right now, more than ever, kids are questioning faith because the morality is such you out an Halton high. yeah. So yeah, the consulting company is like a vast kind of thing. And what's crazy why the, and people might be asking em throughout the world 'cause of the whole global. Satellites now. All those challenges that people thought the West, everyone's dealing with it. And now many of them are asking how do you deal with it? Because they have never done it. 'cause it was just like whatever we were told cultural and now they're like, kids are questioning back and they don't know. 'cause we were like, we're just told because my parents told me, I, grandparents told me. And that's not enough answer now. 'cause kids are able to, you know, rethinking.

Yeah. So in all of the thousands of lectures that you've given, are there some, consistent questions that keep coming back up from folks?

Yeah. You know, for Young, for the youth. I think you, there's all, the whole thing is being open to letting us ask any question I have. I rather them ha have them ask us. Like ulamaa, again, I'm not a scholar for anyone here. I'm just saying educators who could speak to ulamaa, but like having a sheikh like you where they could come and ask. Then having Google, because right now the problem is even Google, they could go to Muslim website, but you don't know who's on the backside of this. Some of these are dummy websites too, so that becomes a problem. Like a lot of the stuff that we did with Extremist Kit kids who try to join Extreme Groups, hamula, even when I dealt with Homeland Security and stuff, none of 'em were connected to massages and Islamic schools. They were all online information. That's why it's so important. if you get that strength, you know, kind of knowledge. I think that by itself was what, I think that became, kind of important, to kind of realize that basis of our Islamic knowledge, having kids ask any questions they have. the second thing I see, 'cause there, you know, a lot of social ill questions. that's where there is that second thing is not losing kid kids hope. See, one of the things when we thought, man, I mean I did this Haram, I did this Haram. Man, I'mma go to hell. 'Cause sometimes we talk about this, a haba was so amazing. Then like you compare that, you got no hope. But what is it that we forget that Allah's Mercy is at another whole infinite, right? Yeah. and especially, I think we've changed it now. The only worry I get now, I think we sometimes pendulum too much to the other side, like Allah's. So merciful. I'm like, no, you're still gonna be accountable. That's right. So I think Allah's hope and Mercy's there, but the only caveat I realize now, people are almost like, oh, so forgive. Do anything you want as long. I'm like, look, let's slow this down too. So that's you, that's the one only I felt like the pendulum is going the other way too, but hope, because I realized a lot of times how our, you know, especially immigrant parents were so tough that you're like, man, kids started trying to go the other way. So I think, hope, mercy opening up questions and then the other thing is they have to be confident of who they are, right? It is, okay, our dean, you could be Muslim and still be American. Like they don't have to have this battle. I think for some reason we have this battle, oh my God, everything against him. I'm like, no, we ha we can, we have the right to have issues. That's why when people go and say Pakistan, man, I feel more safe in America than some Muslim. Some countries I've gone to, I've been to some Muslim, some countries, I don't wanna say it 'cause I don't want someone to get offended, but where I had armed guards with me the whole time, right? Because of kidnapping or so on and so forth, or whatever those are. So I would say, look, everything in our, those countries too, there's a lot of stuff that's very questionable, but you still love your country. I still love our people here, but there are some domestic policy's. Unacceptable. There's some overseas policy, unacceptable. There's some amazing politicians and there's some s who I don't like. There's some amazing neighbors. There's some not amazing neighbors. There's some amazing Muslims. There are not some amazing Muslims. That's what we have in saying, look, our dean is to keep moving forward to worship Allah and worship Allah. It's not I, but how we deal with people. And so that's my, you know, like my other thing is that look, just being a good person is worse from Allah smiling. You get Hassana picking up something, you hassana being nice to your neighbor. You get hassana not cheating the system. You get hassana not cheating on your taxes, you get hassana. Everything a lot has it is that we have to do. And so that's kind of my kind of approach where, you know, people, you know, of the kids like open is questions, hope, mercy, be confident of who you are and understanding there's nothing wrong. Being happy where you are and trying to make it better. You know, at least my, if I had to kind of sum the, I mean there's a lot, you know, things from there and then from teachers, it's disseminating the information, the challenges of all these issues that people are having is one of the things I've seen, like imams and all this, how to answer some of this because just because I mom doesn't mean you have answers for everything, right? Yeah. Counseling. Marriage counseling, youth counseling have to lead the prayers, give all the juma they need to know all the politics. Everyone has specialty, right? You know, like they, they're not the answer for everything. But as imams, they have for teachers, I'll say, look, gets people who are special in this and say, how would you do this? I'll talk a counselor, what's your thoughts on this? I have this kid, I have this question's coming up. What do you do? I don't have to just say, I'm gonna look it up. Find the people who are, who could be advocates for you. Be make them part of your team is, I think one thing I have to say when these questions and challenges come through, and then for institutions, we have to have them have a love for this, our massages and things, right? No doubt we need to have professionalism, which I'm thinking we're getting better at and we need to have, organization stuff, but we also need to make sure we have to keep things open. Now my only worries. Now I also get worried about some of our new co people come in. One thing they don't like, they need to post it, take a picture. Oh my God, look at this. I'm like, you caught one thing. Let's really make sure you're giving a fair justification to this budget, to this imam before you're blasting it on too. Because now everyone's everything goes viral before you're getting that too. That's, you know, I'm also, I have to give it that balance on both sides too, you know, yeah. Where we keep it open and stuff, but that doesn't mean everything is just, you know, go, just because I didn't like it. Everything's wrong about this mosque, which I also feel is not cool.

And I would actually, I would go back to the observation that you made as a 14-year-old saying that you had some issues with, you know, with weekend school, with Sunday school and says, and you being given the responsibility, okay, well what are you gonna do about it? when we make critiques, if we are not prepared to offer correction, then those critiques really, they kinda ring hollow. and I, so I want to ask you now about, what does receiving the isna Lifetime Educational Achievement award, what does that mean to you on a personal level?

You know, those I get worried about because, man, I just, I don't wanna get in trouble upstairs, you know? You know, it's as, you know, see, I look at it too. you know, it's funny for me at the Islamic side, you know, you know, you know, in sha we do it for the sake of Allah. But, you know, if it could be a way to motivate people to like, Hey, just do what you have to do. and hopefully others will recognize it.

Right.

But I'll be honest, when I get more excited is when we, when we went, you know, how like that even the basketball thing, you know, like you were talking about the basketball, like that article That got more kids to be like, look, we can, we could still be top people in America. So for me, the ones where, like the na, like the principal award, national principal, again, white House and say we could compete against everyone else. Don't think from Islamic school all man, we're part, are we, because we have a Muslim, like I've worked at a school that we can't compete somewhere else. So that, that idea of confidence source, that's why we're, I'm more kind of excited about Hey, don't ever underestimate yourself. Don't everything. You can't do something. And that's always, I'm always, this challenge of why can't I, why can't we be the ones who do that? So that's why I'm always like, well, let me see if I could play ball and be good at it. Or, you know, if I were to be educated, let me try to be like, strive to be the best at it and say, how do you do that? but one of the things that, but especially for all of us who are, you know, in some form of leadership That means we have to always keep on checking our hearts that, you know, because these things could also get you in your like, man, you know, so it's all yeah, how do you struggle? And that's why when you had Todd, like we all always have to have our internal say, hey. Who's there. And that's why I always get to have good friends of yeah, that's great, but guess what, you're horrible at this. Which is good to have those close boys, those close BA boys or families sometimes that wife would just tell you like it is, right. So I think having that text, but I mean, at the end it's aah, but really it's hopefully there's, if it could inspire educators to say you know, a lot of times I hear people, I was like, man, oh no, we can't Islam go board this. Everyone always blames someone else and saying, but we got the sun of Allah for profits. It wasn't easy. So we have to strive and hustle. Just like when you said, Imam, you made up a, a good a point here is that, you know, when people complain, they just complain and when they get involved they're like, oh man, I tried you just sending one email doesn't mean anything. In corporate America, you have an issue. You keep on trying, you're trying to start your business. You're gonna grind and grind to get what you need. You wanna get strong working out. It's not gonna happen after working out for a month. It's going to be after six, seven months. But why is it when we come to religious institutions, we're all like, man, lemme just quickly post, right? That's that grind. Because even that frustration, if we keep our intentions, you're getting has enough for it. Even if they don't go with it. So like I came with good sincerity, it didn't happen. Look, I've had in my 24 years, like 10 different board members and 15 presidents of 13 presidents of the maja. Every three, four years we have like a rotation.

Mm-hmm.

There are different personalities, right? They that, that, hey, I didn't lose my, I didn't get, I didn't go ball and lose, get white hair by the age of 30 for no reason. Things happen. Everything wasn't smooth. And s sailing I lot taxes. But I didn't want people to think it can't happen. I wanted not be like, oh, you know what principles, every Islam schools. Yeah. Every three years. It's crazy. Community's crazy. So when I go to Islam school, it's no, you could stay there longer. Even our principal, vice principal Alhamdulillah, they're all there for 14, 15 years and they're all within us. it's not about Habib. It's like how do we train, how do we make our people become better and not realize that if they become better than me, that's my happiness. I always tell kids, only two people are gonna love, who wanna make you better and want you to become better than they are. Teachers, majority of the time. 'cause they want you to become, make you become a doctor too. They're excited. And your mom and dad. That's right. They want you to become better. And if we could now get that to be like, man, I just want everyone in our schools and community to get better. Just be like, your win is my win. That's awesome. you know, I got to see your wife, won an award I recognized, I forgot the thing about two weeks, 2, 3, 8 weeks ago.

Oh, noble, noble Schools.

Yeah. Yeah. What was it for for her?

the Noble schools?

Everyone should know this. those are huge, right? Because yeah. that's one of our highly educated Muslim sisters who has that and for us like that, that, that's great, right? Because there's so many amazing things going on and say, what can we do that, how we learn from that and kind of having these platforms and saying, so hopefully to inspire people say, that could be me. You know? you know, my daughter's got to meet your wife when one time fasting 5K, right? I was like, this is so and This is what she does. She's, you know, a pro, you know, a professor at UIC. I'm like, well, Bob, the school you went to, I was like, yeah. You know, so that, that's huge, right? Because if they don't see stuff, and they'd be like, because my worry and this whole thing about award thing is I like to show kids, people who they could still see Yeah. And do stuff. 'cause when we always talk about the Saha, bless them, anyone who's see this, and, but sometimes kids need to see concrete because it's not like this is this is a sister. Brother practicing their dean. So right now I teach, I still teach a class once, to the senior class. On, on leadership and entrepreneurship. And we bring in different individuals. And so we have a person who's who became Alah, 26 years straight, earnest and young, and now is a partner. So one of the first southeastern Asian Muslim guys in, you know, Chicago. So I was like, look, what's his storyline? We had another person who, you know, started, we started like accelerator, like a thing for cryptocurrency. And then, mark Cuban invested in him. I was like, Hey, show guy people who they comfort soah, who have done some cool things who are in our community. Right? People don't see that stuff. And I think that's where I look at that. Where I'm more excited if kids could kind of, kind of encourages them. 'cause you know, like I'm Mr. QI was like, man, I didn't know you were that big of a baller. I'm like, gives you credibility that they're gonna listen to me about some religious thing, maybe. So I realized like sports and all these other things can me help bring credibility to an adult or to a child and in Shaah And then for us, sometimes I get worried that man a lot is, you know, that Allah that protects our, from our, from take away sincerity in shaah

at me. At me. Alright. My final question for you,

Yes sir.

Actually, it's more of a, it's more of a finish this sentence if you would.

Yes, sir.

the moment I knew I was walking in my purpose was when

eighth grade graduation at Detroit Public Schools. When, I worked in Detroit public schools was unique at that moment. So I was there for four years and that was a year at graduation. And again, just a learning and what, for me that, and it kind of like where they all the kids stood up and gave me a standing ovation and said, thank you for all that. And then parents were crying saying, thank you for that. You really cared about your kids. And I think you know, that you really cared about them because, you know, I made this opportunity every two weeks, you know, call. And so that's when I realized sometimes you don't know if you really made an impact. I think that was there. and sometimes you always, I always tell educators, you're never always gonna get to know later, but you know, when I got sick, you know, and I was in chemo, I had a lot of people send letters and kids were telling me like, when you did this, things that you don't remember that, that the, it, it impact. you know, that's where you get You know, that's what, when you realize, hey, you never know, right? Yeah. Whose life, whose life you could impact or whose life you could maybe best up. yeah. those were the moments. Sorry. Mah mah.

Thank you so much. I really appreciate you taking the time to share with us. And we are gonna move eventually to video. Right now it's just audio. but what I'm pretty sure is that our listeners will be able to hear the smile on your face as you are talking and, that's good. And the sincerity in your voice. I continue to bless you, in your leadership. Continue to put Barica in all of your work because one of the things that I'm taking away from this is that it's never just about us. Our work is really about how we are impacting other people. So mail I continue to bless you and your family.

Ameen, ameen. Thank you. May Allah reward the work you're doing. and may Allah accept it And thank you for this opportunity.

ameen. Alright, As Salaamu Alaikum my brother.

Wa Alaikum

As Salaam Alright, family. Thank you for joining us for another episode of the American Muslim Podcast. If you found value in this conversation, if it gave you direction, if it sparked inspiration or simply affirmed what you already knew to be true, then we ask you to do two things. First, subscribe to the podcast wherever you listen and share it with someone you care about. We also invite you to deepen your journey by joining our growing community of learners. Head over to bayan online.org and get your all access passed to over 30 dynamic courses taught by some of the most respected Muslim scholars and practitioners in the country. New content is being added all the time. And finally. Support those who are serving our communities. Over 70% of Bayan students receive scholarships to continue their work in chaplaincy education, nonprofit leadership, and just about any area of community involvement and support. So contribute to the Muhammad Ali Scholarship fund@bayanonline.org. Invest in holistic community wellness, leadership, and care. That's it for now. Until next time, I'm your host. Imam Tariq El-Amin. I leave you as I greeted you, as made the peace that only God can give be upon you.