Welcome to the eCommerce podcast with

me, your host, Matt Edmundson.

Yes.

Welcome to the show.

Great to have you with us wherever you are joining us from in the world.

This show is all about helping you to deliver eCommerce WOW.

And today I am super excited with today's guest Rick west, who is

, joining us all the way from Alabama.

Uh, we're gonna have a great conversation.

Uh, but Rick, before we get into it, one of the things I like to do is just give

a quick shout out to past guests and episodes that we have had, uh, and given

the conversation that we're gonna have tonight, I thought it would be great to

mention Tim Jordan's episode with us, uh, on how to choose a winning product

every time do go back and check that out.

It's all on the website, ecommercepodcast.net.

We've got such a back catalog.

Uh, you're gonna want to check it out.

Now, this episode is brought to you by the eCommerce cohort, which helps

deliver eCommerce WOW to your customers.

Uh, it is basically a membership.

I dunno, Rick, whether you're the same as me, but it's,

it's easier to work in a silo.

And so, uh, working in a mastermind with peers, Is super, super beneficial.

And that's what the eCommerce is all about.

Let me tell you, it's a lightweight membership group with guided monthly

sprints, that cycle through all the key areas of eCommerce, the sole

purpose of which is to provide clear and actionable jobs to be done.

And so you'll know what to work on and get the support to get it done too.

So whether you're just starting out in eCommerce.

Or if like me, you're a bit of a dinosaur and been around for a little while.

Uh, make sure you check out ecommercecohort.com or email me directly

matt@ecommercepodcast.net with any questions because it is super, super cool.

And also let me know what you think about the new music by the way, because,

uh, you know, we've taken the eCommerce podcast theme and jazzed did up.

Absolutely.

So I'd love to know what you thought.

Think about that, right.

Let's jump into this.

So I'm gonna read this intro here and then we're gonna resolve a

slight confusion that's in my head.

Uh, Rick is the CEO, uh, and founder of field agents.

Now field agent connects brands, retailers, and agencies with customers

across the country and around the world to help you win at retail,

his platform, harnesses, smartphones across the country, bridging the

gap between you and your customers.

And it's really, really clever.

Now Rick created field agent because he saw a massive problem

that needed solving retailers were really struggling to connect with

their customers in an efficient way.

By using mobile technology, Rick was able to create a platform that helps

brands better understand their customers and improve their retail strategies.

Rick is always striving to see his ideas come to life.

He has been an entrepreneur for 19 years.

And is part of the global endeavor entrepreneur network.

Rick, that's all a huge mouthful.

So welcome to the show.

It sounds like you are, you are the man when it comes to all these kind of things,

you know, I'll take that.

My wife will humbly remind me.

I'm not the man.

I will take that.

Listen, I will always be known as Kim's husband or Hannah and Logan and Sarah's

dad or Ketting, and Josie's grand.

Forget about all the other stuff that's who I am.

let me tell you, Rick, I feel your pain.

Uh, I'm I'm the same way.

I'm Sharon's fella.

That's the way it is here in the UK.

Uh, and you know what?

I'll take it.

I'll take it.

It's not a problem at all.

Um, not a problem at all.

So thank you for joining us, uh, on the eCommerce podcast, I'm

super excited that you are here.

Um, but let's, let's clear something up because it says, uh, we were

talking in the intro about field agent and I've got this beautiful intro

written by Sadaf, our producer here.

Fantastic.

Oh, it's great.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I mean, work of pros, uh, but underneath your name, it says something

a little different, doesn't it?

Doesn't say field agent.net anymore.

It says plumshop.com.

Yeah.

So for the listeners, don't panic, you they've got the right guy, you

know, on the podcast right now.

but you know, uh, Matt, this came from, um, uh, kind of a concept.

If you're a voracious reader or a podcast guy, many people have listened

to a podcast, a business podcast called flip my funnel, Sangram Vajre,

uh, the, uh, the, uh, CEO of termin.

Creative Terminus started that.

He now has a podcast called the move, but his book, the move is really helping

entrepreneurs or in the people in the eCommerce world understand there's

three phases to everyone's company.

There's a problem market fit.

Mm-hmm, a product market fit and a platform market fit.

We knew when we started field agent back in the pre selfie days.

So.

Pre front facing camera.

Okay.

No video, iPhone 3s, the rage, right?

It was a Blackberry flip phone world.

Yeah.

Yeah.

But that thing was coming out.

We knew that we were solving a problem by launching field agent, which was allowing

brands and retailers getting access to data at scale because we Crowd sourced

millions of individuals that would take pictures on their phone, uh, answer

insights, questions, buy products, and try them kind of do mystery shopping.

So we knew we had an amazing solution mm-hmm and then we spent

the last 10 years really honing in on the product market fit

when you had a problem to solve.

And everyone said, yes, there's a problem.

The product market fit said, well, Rick, how do you take that, that

machine that you've built and create very succinct products.

So it's easy for me to buy as opposed to it being always a customized solution.

Mm-hmm . Make a phone call and yeah, here's my machine.

How do I customize it?

Well, after about 10 years of doing work, there's only so many ways to do an audit.

So many ways to do research or mystery shopping.

There's only so many ways to do ratings and review.

So we started to productize.

Then the third phase we started to hear from our client saying, Rick,

the way we buy from you is good.

But it could be cleaner.

Can you simplify it?

So we launch plum in June 17th of this year.

And plum is a B2B marketplace that acts like Amazon.

And, and for those e-commerce people listening, you roll your eyes.

Great.

Rick, you said it's compared to Amazon before you roll your eyes, this is

why Matt, why it's so important.

If you're a B2B provider of services, there's no way that you

can put your services on Amazon.

And Shopify is just not gonna work for you.

Is it?

I mean, you just can't like, Hey, throw this on shop it'll work.

So we spent the last year or so within, COVID really developing a marketplace

so that you can click, answer a couple of questions and go to a cart and check

out with a cart just like you would Amazon or target or boots, anyone,

any type of retail, B2B engagement.

And you can now buy our services in that way.

Go right to a Cart.

Either pay with a credit card or do a purchase or invoice such

that, and this is the kicker.

We would argue where the very first B2B eCommerce marketplace with a

cart, all of the B2B marketplaces are click, click, talk to a salesperson,

click, click, get an appointment, click, click, go to a demo.

And we've completely turned that upside down.

Hints, plumshop, which is why we've got that, uh, the website listed there.

That's a longwinded answer to your original question, right?

No, that's a great answer.

So, um, you have done plum shop, which, uh, within a couple of

clicks, I can buy B2B services using standard eCommerce checkouts,

which makes things a lot easier.

Uh, yeah.

Why.

Okay.

I'm intrigued.

When you say you are the first one and, and I have to be honest with you, Rick.

I don't doubt you because I, I I'm rapidly scaring the gray matter in

the back of my head, trying to think.

Well, hang on a minute.

I, I, I genuinely don't know of market and maybe dear listener, if

there is one, you should let us know.

Um, so if that's the case and you are the first, which congratulations by the way.

Um, Why has it taken so long for the internet to do this in

a world that has been eCommerce crazy for about 20 odd years?

Well, Matt it's, it's not a, it's not a technical question.

If you talk to our CTO, Kelly Miller, he said Rick, time and

money solves all technical issues.

I mean, it just does.

So think of the, uh, the founders syndrome, uh, that legacy, you

know, brick and mortar systems.

For me to take an agency.

And let's say the agency does eCommerce work.

And they want to help you do SEO.

What the agency wants is that I wanna have billable hours and I've staffed it.

I've got an onboarding team, a sales team.

Uh, I've got a client success team.

I want all that to come in.

So you buy into my $10,000 a month.

Now half of that goes toward buying ads or other things.

But I need that 5,000 because I gotta staff my team.

Mm-hmm and we're coming in saying.

I think you could probably just click and give me your ad words

and tell me what you want.

And then we could just build that for you.

Well, that turns that model upside down.

If you're a legacy system or a legacy agency, what am I gonna do?

And so what we tell people is that why don't you let that agency infrastructure

be focused on the large custom problems to solve mm-hmm and the other 20,

30, 40, 50% that's fairly wrote.

Why don't you make it frictionless and a better buying experience

because, and this is the, this is the nugget for everyone listening.

The 20, 25, 30, 35 year old person, that's willing to buy a

car from Tesla without driving it.

That's willing to look at a video.

And do a walkthrough of a home and buy it without seeing it.

To do all the traction, all the, the, um, transactions via docuserve mm-hmm

and to, to send money back and forth, you're telling me they're not gonna

spend a thousand dollars for ratings and reviews when they're willing to

spend 70 or a hundred thousand dollars.

No, Rick, you know, we really need to have a meeting.

I'm like, no, you don't.

You don't need to have a meeting.

Well, Rick, you don't understand the value.

The value I add in that meeting is to help you think about how we

were gonna do ratings and reviews.

I'm like, no, you just need your core consumer to buy your product.

Try it, put a ratings review up, but an agency can't handle that.

So we think this is the thesis, right?

That as the young gen Z millennials get into decision making positions in

the B2B world, they're gonna require that there'd be a better frictionless

self-educating way to buy services, as opposed to I'll schedule a meeting in

three weeks and let's talk about it.

Those days are gone, Matt.

Now you could argue I've got another five or 10 years runway left in it,

but I don't think you have much there.

There's no one that goes to Amazon and says, I'm gonna buy a TV and you click.

And I want to have a someone call me and tell me about the TV.

They would laugh at you, but for whatever reason, if I spend $2,000 to

the TV, I still want to have the meeting before I spend a thousand dollars for

SEO work, because it just feels like I should have the meeting, but you're

willing to do all these other things, B to C, self-educating checking ratings

and reviews, and it's frictionless.

So it's coming, the time is coming.

That's a really interesting point actually,

because I I'm sitting here thinking actually I have an agency, right.

So.

Um, I, I have an e-commerce agency.

We've got, I don't know, I don't really talk about it much on the

show, but we've got like a done for you e-commerce service, which we

offer to companies and we've got like a done for you sort of media

podcast service that we do for people.

Um, My experience here is, and I'm listening to you, Rick, cuz I'm your,

I'm your in some respects, part of me is your, your type, your target client.

And I'm going well now hang on a minute.

I, I quite like the, uh, having a conversation.

I quite like the strategizing.

I quite like understanding the client problem and figuring out how this works.

Yeah, I do.

You know what?

It strikes my ego a little bit and to be fair, I like to meet people, right?

I think, um, yes.

I'm thinking about the services that I buy.

And maybe I'm old school.

I tend to buy from people that are like, um, and mm-hmm, , uh, it's

one of the key sort of buying bears, but then I think, well, actually

I used to be the guy that would go and spend hours in the car showroom.

And I would talk to whoever it was in the showroom for hours and

hours and hours about the car.

But I am now the guy that will quite happily go to the website

and buy without talking to anybody.

Cause I know what it is that I want.

So part of me is like, Hang on a minute, but the other part of

me is like, ooh, I've seen that.

I've started to do what you, you are talking about here.

We we're we're we're at that.

It's that classic S-curve right.

Mm-hmm you have the S-curve the real estate is on the down part of

the, the S-curve, you know, uh, we would argue that Amazon is pushed

things in a part of the S curve.

Uh, car buyings on the S-curve.

You're not gonna see as many dealerships, et cetera.

Why wouldn't B2B services?

I think they're kind of on the bottom part of the S curve.

So you need another S-curve to come in to take it to the next level.

Now mm-hmm you and I both know that there are people in your

demographic that says I get it.

I just want to meet the person.

That's not gonna go away.

I mean, we, we could argue that when Amazon, or when, when Kindle and

the iPad came out, a hundred percent of all books are gonna go away.

We're only gonna buy them on an iPad.

We're only gonna buy them, read them on a Kindle and based on the, the genre and

what you're targeting, it's what 25, 30%.

And it's been that way for probably a decade.

Mm-hmm I think B2B services, when you look at size of drink and the,

the, the kind of that small taste that I'm gonna give someone, it

might only be 30, 40, 50% of your revenue that goes to the small drink.

Mm-hmm and this massive custom piece may still have great

interaction with salespeople.

That's not gonna go away, but then you're, you're a business guy.

You've done the math in order for, to justify spending the

time that you just described.

They're gonna have to buy at $10,000 or 20 or 30.

But what about the other a hundred thousand people that would love

to have a taste of what you do?

And they only wanna spend five grand you're like I can't justify

it or a thousand can't justify it.

Well, eCommerce says, of course you could justify it.

You know the questions you're gonna ask them in the meeting.

Have them go through a process, you know the input you're gonna need.

Have 'em put in the inputs and you know what you're gonna charge.

And so there's a part of your business that says, gosh, now Matt, you and

your team can now serve a thousand clients versus your top 50, because

your 50 are difficult and expensive, but yet it's a great quality experience.

For you to scale to the thousand, you're gonna have to engage in some way, the

way Amazon and others made things work.

And that's why the shopping mall went away and other things have gone away

because people wanna buy in a certain way.

Yeah.

So we're on the very tipping point of this.

Yeah.

I'm, I'm curious now, Rick, to see where this goes genuinely.

Um, yeah, I I'm, and we, we're talking about the productization of services,

uh, in the podcast and I in my head.

Right.

Uh, if I look again at what we did with our services, so, um, I run my

own eCommerce website, so I've got, and they're a clear product, right?

You can go, right.

Well, I sell this product.

I can put it in a box and I can ship it.

right.

And then when I started doing agency, I'm like, I hated it because

I'm like, I, it's not, I can't put it in a box and I can't ship it.

I have to trade time for money.

I just, it just, and so that's when I was, I got really excited

about things like online courses and masterminds and memberships,

like the e-commerce cohort we run.

Right.

For very little money you can get a thousand people to come join

your mastermind, everybody wins.

Right?

And you're kind of productizing your service.

And so people are buying into that and they're buying the product.

. And what I found was that actually, if you had say a thousand people who did your

course, mm-hmm, a hundred of them would contact you about your coaching services.

They would want a much more personal interaction with you.

And so, yeah, that became like part of the funnel.

If that makes sense and you funneled them down.

So what I hear you talking about here is you're kind of like, well, you've

got your courses and your standard productization of a service there.

You are now on about productizing the rest of that funnel.

Have I understood that?

Yeah.

Think, think of the concept of legal zoom.

We would've never dreamed 20 years ago that in order for an eCommerce

company to do a startup, they can go to legal zoom and incorporate,

do their LLC, get their operating agreement and never talk to an attorney.

Mm-hmm it, it just, there's no way that would ever happen today.

Why contact an attorney?

Now as you grow and you get more complex?

Then you want to go have a great conversation with Matt, explain where

your vision, where you're going and you do customization because there's

no attorney with any scale that says, I want to talk to a thousand startups.

You just don't.

That's why it's so, so expensive.

So the funnel part of that is so true.

Legal zoom says, well, I'll take all the small ones and I know that

I'll eventually lose them, but I've given them a good flavor.

Now legal zoom says, here's my referral network based on where you are.

Let me refer to one of my attorneys.

So you see where the business model is coming in from that perspective.

And that's really what we're trying to drive here is that we know that.

Our, our, our problem solution is right on, our products are amazing.

Our clients started to say, I'd like to have a different

buying experience with you.

And based on the way we were staffed today, I couldn't talk

to the thousand small guys.

I can't afford it.

Uh, I think in, um, in COVID that the example was Zoom went from, what was it?

30 million users to like 200 million users or 10 to whatever it was crazy number.

If they were not productized and you could purchase zoom automatically.

I think the stats I saw is something to the effect of it was gonna take like 60

or six years at a hundred thousand people working 10 hours a day, doing 30 minute

calls to scale into the tens of millions.

You couldn't scale, but yet zoom, scaled without ever talking to a person.

That's what we're talking about here.

Realizing that zoom still had phone calls from the fortune 50 saying,

I want a meeting, but everyone like the two of us, we just click, click.

Did zoom.

Had a deal.

Six months later, you wanna upgrade?

You bet.

Everything happened.

So why can't B2B services be the same way?

I think we're on the forefront of that.

Wow.

Sounds

very exciting.

Rick, you sound very excited by it.

It is.

It is.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So, uh, we were talking before we hit record and you mentioned Gabe

white, uh, as someone, uh, who you're excited, a guy you've known for years.

Uh, if I remember rightly is, has he gone or is he going

through this process with you?

Is there a story?

He is.

And, and so, so Gabe, you know, brilliant guy, but has been in the agency world,

you know, forever in the, uh, customer marketing marketing agency world.

And then, uh, the last five, six years really started focusing on e-commerce

kind of in your, your space and he small group of, you know, soldiers all

locked in arms and they they've got this startup and he's feeling the scale.

He he's like, Ugh, I can just feel the, the pressure and I can't handle

the engagement that I want to.

And our engagement said, Hey, what if we took your product?

And we put your product on plum shop so that people could buy a

taste or a drink, small drink of what you do based on who engages.

You can choose the ones that you now want to call and engage, because

they can be a much larger contract.

And for the other ones have an amazing experience.

So he's been a fantastic partner to help us understand on the eCommerce

world, how to take his customized agency services that he would sell products.

How do we take that product and make it a frictionless engagement?

And he's been a fantastic partner to help us think through that.

So what's what have you, what sort of things have

you discovered with, uh, with him?

Yeah, I think it's, it's the it's it's being.

It's the strength of being together versus separate.

So for example, we do, uh, ratings and reviews as an example, and

he's able to do a scorecard that tells you based on your URL.

I can tell you what your content score is gonna be, what your

photography score is gonna be.

Ratings to review other things within it.

And so then he comes in and said, here's your scorecard.

Here's where you need help.

And then plum shop comes in and says, well, I've got someone that can

help you without talking to anyone.

Remember if you need new photography, click here and buy and I'll do lifestyle

shots or product shots for you for $75 a photo like, okay, click, click.

Yes.

Here's a content writer, click click.

Here's a person that could do ratings and review, click click.

So his scorecard tells you the health.

Then based on the health, you now have opportunities to purchase other

products within the marketplace.

So it really is an interesting ecosystem without his scorecard.

I'm selling to you saying you've got a problem, but his score card gives

you exact issues and what he couldn't do, he couldn't solve the problem.

He's a good scorecard, but he wasn't gonna fix anything for you.

So that product now has been a really, really cool engagement for us.

Uh, we've done it manually.

We've got it in front of folks.

It'll actually be live in about two weeks.

Okay.

Okay.

A fun journey,

uh, at the time of recording.

Uh, I mean, obviously by the time this comes out, this

will all be live and working.

So I do check it out@plumshop.com.

I'll be checking it out.

I'm really, I'm genuinely really curious to see how this can work.

Uh, because you're right.

I I've not come across anything like it.

And, um, I like your analogy, the small drink, the little drink.

It's that kind of, um, that kind of thing.

That's almost a good brand name.

I mean, I like plum shop, but the little drink or something like that.

Anyway, I digress.

Um, so why, why plum shop?

What, what sort of led you to, to do the, because you've got field agent, right.

Just explain to people what field agent is.

And then we can maybe look at the leap, why you went from one to the other.

Yeah.

So, uh, we, we started out with trying to solve the problem.

How do you capture data at retail at scale?

And we knew we could use this thing called a smartphone, but remember, as

back in the days of, I, I literally Matt was showing someone a smartphone and

this is a CPG executive super smart.

And he looked at the phone and he was like, he was clicking it

saying, well, a, how do you use it?

And B how are you gonna train someone to use the camera?

So for most people listening, you can't think back 12 years ago cuz it's, it's

such a long time ago then it's okay.

Well, once they take the photo, Rick, then how do they upload it to the

computer so they can email it to you?

I mean, those were the days of being the first app in iTunes to pay cash.

The first app to use geolocation at that time.

So by, by fast forwarding, what field agent does is it takes a Crowd sourcing

of millions of people, uh, here in the US, six other countries, we're in the UK.

And so how do you have everyday people capturing data quantitatively,

prices, pictures of displays, pictures of billboards, pictures of menus.

How do we have that same group do insights?

I wanna send in a female 18 to 30 to talk about cosmetics and provide insights.

And how do you have them buy product, try it and sample and do ratings and reviews.

That's really the big machine that we developed with field agent.

And as we talked before, I knew I had an amazing problem solution and

I had a great product and that was just how people wanted to buy it.

But we've been driving that business now for about 12 years.

Uh, we're the go to partner for someone that's trying to figure out what's

happening at retail and near real time.

Yeah,

no, it is.

It's, it is a clever idea and it's a great little.

Um, for, I shouldn't call it a little product.

That sounds a bit too demeaning, but it is a great product.

No, I'm also probably the only guy on your podcast that's telling

people that if you're, if you're, if you're an e-commerce provider today or

you're doing e-commerce work, uh, we do a great job of doing concept test.

You'd have people go to your website, tell you what you think.

I mean, we do a great job of doing research, but I'm also probably

the only guy on your podcast that pays people that listen in.

So yeah, if you don't care about field agent and you just wanna make little extra

cash, download the app and I'll pay you 2, 5, 10, $20 or 10 pounds just to go

take some pictures or engage a little bit.

So I'd love to offer people money as well.

Yeah, and I was, I'm actually, you, you mean,

you probably don't realize this somewhere I'm on your system.

Uh, I'm signed up as a, as a field agent.

So I was really curious, uh, by this process.

Um, so yeah, do check it out and actually, if you are online and you've got an

e-commerce business and you do want to get some quantitative data, um, then

actually field agent's a great way to do that, to get people Inex inexpensively.

I'm struggling with my words today, Rick, uh, inexpensively to check,

uh, and provide the feedback on your website, which is so, so insightful, uh,

and has a massive impact on your, uh, optimization rates and things like that.

And why are people doing certain things and not doing certain things?

So do check that out.

So.

If I'm, uh, listening to the show and I've got a product, I, I get

the basics of eCommerce and I'm, I'm sitting here and I'm going

well, I've got a service as well.

And we've started to talk about productizing, your service.

Um, certainly parts of it, you know, for, for the likes of

plum shop and stuff like that.

I guess let's talk about that a minute, Rick, if we can, who can

actually productize the service and how would I go about doing that?

What are some of the things that I should think about?

Yeah.

As, as we talk to, um, B2B services providers, the first thing they're gonna

tell you is I've thought about doing that.

I'm really, really busy.

I can't take resources off of what I'm driving today to even start this.

And most of my tech resources are focused on custom client request.

So the very first barrier is time.

The second one is tech resources.

We've come alongside.

That's part of what we've done over the last year.

We have the secret sauce.

So don't worry about that.

We'll come in and we don't have this productized yet, so

shame on us, but we'll come in.

So your secret's safe with everyone that's listening to the show.

Well, I told the team in about six months after we've done

this, it should be a sales service.

No, one's going to Amazon taking a phone call before they

put their product on Amazon.

Mm-hmm they just put it on Amazon.

Mm-hmm , you'll be able to put it on our, our, our plum shop, but

we engage them to say don't panic.

let's talk about your 20 services you offer.

What are your, your, um, the best selling services?

What's the simplest version of that best selling service?

And we'll come in and we do the tech lifting and the concept lifting to create

products, to put it on plum shop so that you don't have to think about it.

And they're like whoof.

Okay.

That looks like help.

And so because of that, we have merchandising companies, uh, again,

we've got photography companies.

We've got others that are engaging saying, yeah, I, I can see where this

can work out and we come alongside and help them productize and give them a

place to place it, which is plum shop.

Okay.

So, and what are some of the, some of the steps in that whole productizing thing?

I appreciate you coming along and help, but what are, what's

the sort of journey that say a photographer's gonna go through?

Yeah.

So think of a photographer that, and in this case, we'll take the one product,

which is, uh, we do lifestyle shots.

Well, the first thing you wanna do is no, I need to spend an hour

interview and said, no, you don't.

No, you don't.

Um, I can go to product person a and say, show me some photos of recent lifestyle

shots that you have upload those.

And give me the taste and feel upload your style guide.

Cuz every brand has a style guide.

If I follow your style guide and I hit this, then tell

me a couple of other things.

And I, I basically realize, oh, I just need to answer a few questions.

and then I'm gonna come back to you again with a proposal

saying, this is what I heard.

I kind of productized that.

Sign off on it.

You're done.

And next thing you know, in about a week, you've, you know, 20, 30 photos of

lifestyle shots based on your style guide, based on the inspiration you've given us.

And we can go make that work.

So that's kind of how a process would work, you know, you know, coming in

to make something like that work.

So I guess if I'm productizing a service, whether

it's, uh, photography or if it's something else I'm thinking.

What are the core components?

What are the core questions that I need to ask somebody and how can I use

technology to get that information out of them in a quick and frictionless way?

Right?

Uh, and once I've defined that alongside, you know, what my basic products

are, I might I'm then starting to get somewhere on the right path and think

in terms of how this is gonna work.

Right?

I mean, even if you choose not to do the technology part of this, and

this is really for anyone that has an agency listening, If I hired a new

client success, new salesperson, shame on you for not having a playbook that

says when you interview a client, make sure you do boom, boom, boom.

Mm-hmm . I mean, if you've ever read the book, uh, checklist manifesto.

Uh, no, I haven't actually

fantastic book.

It's it's, it's really simple saying this is how the, the

checklist concept is how we reduced.

And I don't remember the exact numbers, but how you took deaths from operating

rooms from like 20, 30% down to virtually kneel mm-hmm because people weren't

following the checklist of washing their hands and sanitizing things.

And once they did the checklist.

once the airline pilot looked at the checklist, when a storm

came up, as opposed to thinking, I can do this on my own.

Mm-hmm . So when you think of playbooks, playbook is just a checklist mm-hmm and

shame on you if you have the client for 30 minutes and then you get back and

say, Hey boss, I had a great client call.

You said, did you ask him this?

Oh, I forgot.

Do you ask them this?

Oh, no, I I'll.

Then they write down next time.

Don't forget.

What productization does, regardless of whether you use tech, is that we

all have to be intuitive enough to follow our client yet at the same

time, not walk away without getting the eight primary things we have to have.

You can get 20 other things, because it was really fun for the client to tell

you, but you know the eight things.

And so what we're saying is from a technology standpoint,

I just don't need the other 20.

I just need the 8 because it makes it very, very efficient.

So if you've got a clean sales experience and you know, you're getting the

eight things, no matter who has the call, you can now turn them loose.

That's really 80 for the 20, what you need to be able to productize something.

Even without technology.

We all should be doing that because checklist is what saves all of our

rears, because the client comes back and says, you didn't ask me.

Yeah.

You're like, ah, you're right.

I didn't, yeah, it's all checklist.

That's so true.

It's so I remember working with a German company, uh, in, before

I became, before I entered into eCommerce, I kind of did health spas,

designed and installed health spa.

And I, we imported from a German company and before I could buy anything from

them, there was like a four, five page checklist I had to go through.

Yeah.

And I had to tick.

All kinds of boxes and it was the, it was horrendous, but it meant that

actually every time when it turned up, it was right, uh, every time.

And if, if there was a problem, the first thing the Germans would

do is go show me the checklist.

Uh, and you would look at the checklist and you go.

Aha.

That's where the problem lies right there is actually I

filled in the checklist wrong.

Um, or I tried to order it without always had problems when I

ordered stuff without a checklist.

I just wanna say

but it's art, but it's art and science, right?

So, so the science part of a sales call is making sure that you have

all your things buttoned in, but the difference between a great sales

call and mediocre is the art part.

Because you know what?

I just like working with Matt.

I love working with Matt.

Well, you can't put a number on that.

Certain people just get it.

Yeah.

But whether it's Matt or someone else, the science part should be consistent.

Because if you love working with Matt, but Matt comes back with

like five of the eight questions.

The client success person has to waste my time with two more phone calls.

Mm-hmm that's not a good experience.

The B to C eCommerce thing has figured that out.

Where do I want it shipped?

How do I want to pay for.

If they didn't ask those questions and I had to come back and say, oh

yeah, by the way, I forgot to ask you, where do you want this mailed?

No way B2C would work, right?

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

And if, if, uh, like I have a Jeep and if I'm gonna buy things

for my Jeep, Amazon said, are you still buying for your 2015 CJ seven?

I'm like, yes, I am.

Because even they know now when I buy a product, they say, whoa, whoa,

whoa, that won't fit your Jeep.

Mm-hmm see.

So even Amazon went to a little bit more depth to say, mm-hmm

nah, that won't really fit.

Well, that's what we expect sales people to do.

And we all know that we get bit every now and then, because I

forget to ask question a or B.

Yeah, no, it's very good.

Very, we've never talked about checklists on the eCommerce podcast before.

Uh, so wow.

Well world first and actually I'm surprised we've not talked about it

before, because they are so powerful.

Uh, so, uh, check out.

What was it?

A book checklist manifesto.

Is that right?

Yeah.

Yeah.

Great.

And it's, to me, I'm not a

ferocious reader, so

it's got great margins, small book, easy to read.

uh, it tells you, but the stories again, I'm a storyteller, Matt.

So the stories are what's powerful is when you think about

being in a surgery, you're.

Well, of course, that makes sense.

Why wouldn't they follow it when you think about the pilot, but yet

when I'm selling eCommerce agency, why should I follow a checklist?

Cuz it's not that important.

You're like, are you kidding me?

It's my lifeblood.

Of course it's important.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So checklist.

Makes sense.

Makes sense.

Yeah.

No, totally.

I like that.

I really, really like that.

Um, Rick listen, I'm aware of time.

And I feel like I'm just, uh, starting to scratch the surface,

uh, of things that we can okay.

That we can actually talk about.

I mean, we've, we've that we honestly, uh, but, um, I, I wanted

to be respectful of your time.

So my final question for you serve before we, uh, before we get

into this whole, how do people reach you?

How do people connect you?

Uh, the question that I have for you is this.

I dunno if you remember at the start of the show, I said that today we're

sponsored by the e-commerce cohort, which is actually one of my products, right.

Uh, one of our sort of online services, which is great.

Uh, and it's all about using coaching and peer mentoring to

deliver e-commerce well, so.

imagine, right?

You are standing up in a room full of the cohorts in a hotel somewhere.

Uh, and we've, you've just done this talk on, uh, you know, why you need to offer

productized services and you talked about plum and, and, uh, the book actually

has probably answered the question.

You get a minute to thank all the folks that have had a big impact on

your life, family, mentors, authors, software, podcasts, whatever it is, who

do you think and why I'm super curious.

. Rick West: Yeah, so we, we have to the,

say my wife to start out with that.

My life partner we've been dating 41 years and only married 37.

So wow.

37 on Wednesday of this week, July 20th, 37 years.

I congratulations.

Humble.

She's an encourager keeps me humble and it just truly a, a like partner here on

the, on the encouragement mentoring side.

Uh, it's a guy by the name of Lee.

Ye.

Okay.

Lee, ye his old Goldman Sachs guy got into the ministry world.

And, uh, uh, we were elders together at a church in Hong Kong when I lived there.

And he's the guy that's not afraid to tell me my baby's ugly.

Okay.

cause that's such a, a great phrase.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Remember 99% of all babies look like aliens every now

and then you get that one.

Like, oh my gosh, that's a baby.

But most of them are just, their heads are warped their hair.

They're they're just, they're not cute.

And so, as an entrepreneur, everyone thinks their product is cute.

Everything's perfect.

And you're like, eh, not so much.

Mm-hmm so Lee's really good.

And, and here's one thing he'll help remind you is that we all have

to understand is the reason that you're on the podcast is the reason

that you're speaking is the reason you're in this position, because if

you Rick or you, Rick, the title.

Yeah.

And from an ego standpoint, you gotta understand because of the title.

And where you are, you get a certain group of people that want to engage with you.

Mm-hmm and you've got to make sure that you separate that from who Rick is.

Mm-hmm because the people wanna engage with Rick around mentorship, discipleship.

Other things are over here.

The other people that want you for the title and where the title goes away.

Are you going to be okay?

Are you the man still gonna be okay with who you are and whose you are?

Because the title will fade mm-hmm and he's really good about keeping me,

like, are you sure you wanna say that?

Are you sure you wanna do this?

Fantastic.

It's been fantastic.

We all need a Lee in our lives.

So I'm reminded of that.

I dunno.

If you ever saw the movie called runnings about the Jamaican Bob slate team.

Yes.

And I, I remember really clearly in the line, um, you know, uh,

the, the, the guy, uh, is asking his coach who cheated, uh, a few.

Prior in the Olympics.

And he is like, why did you do it?

And he is like, well, I just had to win at all costs.

And, um, and he turns around and he said, well, how, how do I know?

How do I know if I'm gonna be right?

And he said, listen, um, if you are not enough without the gold medal,

you'll never be enough with it.

Uh, and it it's that kind of phrase, isn't it?

That kind of thinking, which says it doesn't matter what the title is.

It doesn't matter what the bank balance is.

If you're not enough without it, you'll never be enough with it.

Right.

So true.

So.

That is gold right there.

And that's the beauty of people like Lee, uh, in, uh, like we could just

mic if I mic I'd drop it right now.

yeah.

so true.

So shout out to Kim.

Was that your wife's name?

Did I

remember that right?

Yeah.

Yes.

Yeah.

I, I tell people that I was married to Kim west before Kanye was.

Yeah, the original, the original.

Absolutely.

I like that.

That's brilliant.

Uh, so shout out to Kim and also to Lee, uh, and congratulations

on 37 years married.

That's awesome.

I'm.

I'm coming up to 25.

So I'm a little bit behind you.

Uh I'm I'm still playing catch up, but that's awesome.

I just, I, I love that.

I, I love the fact that you guys are still very much a partnership very much

in love that it's just brilliant to see.

So, uh, Rick, how do people reach you?

How do they get hold of you?

If they want to know more, if they wanna reach out?

Yeah, so they don't have to remember much.

I mean, obviously we've pitched the plum shop.com.

They can learn about our products, but if you wanna contact me because, uh,

if you're a friend of Matt Edmundson, this podcast, Uh, just go to LinkedIn.

You don't have to remember much other than Rick Westfield agent.

You can find me DM me there.

You'd be surprised how quickly I'd say connect and talk.

Uh, if you wanna spend some time talking through this or anything

else in life, if you're a friend of match or a friend of mine.

Bless you.

That's awesome.

So we will, of course put a link to Rick and, uh, his LinkedIn profile and to

plum shop and all of that sort of stuff.

We will put that, uh, on the website.

Yes we will.

Which is eCommerce podcast.

Dot net.

So there you have it.

Another episode, what a great conversation.

Thanks again, Rick for joining us, man.

Totally appreciate that.

Uh don't oh, this is great.

Isn't it?

I just, I love having great conversations I genuinely do.

So don't forget to subscribe wherever you get your podcast from, because we

have some more great conversations.

If you can believe that lined up and you're not gonna wanna.

Any of them?

No, you are not.

Uh, and in case no one has told you stay, you.

Awesome.

Uh, the eCommerce podcast is produced by or media.

You can find our entire archive of episodes on your favorite podcast app.

The team that makes this show possible, the legends Sadaf Banon Josh catch

Paul Estelle, Robin and Tim Johnson.

Our theme song is written by me and my son, Josh.

Uh, and if you would like to read the transcript or show notes,

head on over to the website.

eCommerce podcast.net, where you can also sign up for a newsletter.

That's it for me?

That's it from Rick.

Have a fantastic week.

See you next week.