So--

How much is that?

[GRUNTING]

Um, um, um.

[GRUNTING]

Um, um, um.

[GRUNTING]

[GRUNTING]

No.

Hey there.

This is the podcast editor's mastermind

where we talk about the business side of podcasting.

We're not here to talk about how to edit stuff,

although that may come up tonight.

We'll see.

But this is the show where we talk about the business stuff.

My name is Bryan Entzminger.

You can find me at toptieraudio.com.

And on this side is--

Jennifer Longworth.

You can find me at bermanbropodcasting.com.

Unable to join us tonight, we're Carrie Caulfield.

You can find here at Carrie.land.

And Daniel Abendroth, you can find him at rothmedia.audio.

This episode of Podcast Editor's Mastermind

is sponsored by Riverside, the top platform

for recording high-quality audio and video podcasts.

We love how Riverside makes it easy to record

high-quality audio and video over the internet

and share the recordings for editing.

Whether it's our clients recording or us recording

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love knowing that with Riverside we can get great recordings,

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our clients and their listeners.

Have you ever considered that, offering remote recording

and production?

Riverside can make that possible for you.

And with Riverside's producer mode,

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at the same time, you know how challenging

it can be to really listen and give your best to the interview

while managing the chat.

We certainly know that firsthand in this show.

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and for your clients.

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to start recording professional quality audio and video

for yourself and for your clients.

And to save 15% off the cost of your membership,

use the promo code yetis, that is Y-E-T-I-S.

- So Jennifer, tonight we're talking about

how to help your hosts sound and look great,

which we didn't make this because we're using Riverside,

but that is kind of an interesting tie in

as I was thinking about this.

So Jennifer, do you ever have to help your hosts

or their guests sound great, look great

when they're recording stuff?

- I don't do the look great part.

I have Ethan on my team for that.

But yes, I do try to help them sound great.

That's part of my thing that I do as a podcast editor.

- And that's something that I do as well.

And I think especially if you're onboarding a new podcaster,

that's just part of the process,

how you choose a microphone, all of that stuff.

And I think we'll kind of get into some of those things

in case somebody that's watching isn't familiar.

We recognize that a lot of editors are,

but not everybody is.

So we'll talk a little bit about that.

But what's really kind of the bug in my ear, if you will,

is what happens if you get a client

who's an existing podcaster,

or maybe they change locations or something,

and all of a sudden, or maybe for the first time ever,

the recording isn't great,

and they can't tell that their poop stinks.

Like, Jennifer, how do you handle that?

- I ask them what microphone they're using, first of all.

- Okay.

- Because if it starts with the word blue,

it's probably a bad choice.

But talk them through, you know, what are you doing?

What did you do differently?

I have one client right now,

and her last episode sounded like trash, and she knows it.

- Okay.

- So that's good.

I think she was just using like earbud microphone

because her regular microphone died.

And instead of like borrowing one from me or something,

'cause she's local, or going to the library,

she just sounded like crap.

But as my hairdresser once told me when I had a,

I was blonde for a couple of weeks,

she said, "I can't fix it, but I can help it."

That's how I feel about audio sometimes.

I'm sure you can't relate to that one at all.

- I can, and actually this is kind of a sore subject for me

because part of the challenge for me is I pride myself

in being able to turn something that's not great

into something that's listenable.

Now, that doesn't mean I'm trying to get my clients

to make terrible recordings,

but sometimes I feel like maybe I'm doing a disservice

by turning something into an acceptable quality

where maybe they don't realize what's being left

on the table because of the recording process,

the environment, how they allow their guests to connect.

Guest connections especially is a big one

because I have one client who's interviewing people

that are not technologically savvy very often,

or they are, but in other ways, if that makes sense.

And so I get a lot of laptop microphones in a small office

or, and no headphones, 'cause some of them,

at some point you're just going,

we've got so many things going against us,

and if we're starting with a laptop microphone

in a less than ideal environment,

it really doesn't matter that much if I suggest Riverside

or another recording solution,

because it will just be capturing

a higher quality recording of bad audio.

There's that tension because she wants to be accommodating

to her clients, and I think that's fair.

I did that when I hosted the Engaging Missions show,

I was very accommodating to my guests.

I wanted to intentionally make it as easy as possible.

I did say, yeah, if you've got a microphone, use it.

If you're in the States, I'll ship you one.

I can make that happen, definitely wear headphones,

but inevitably, you end up in a situation

where you have somebody who's overseas,

and the option that they have is sitting in a car

when it's 105 degrees Fahrenheit

with the air conditioner off,

so they can at least get something passable.

You have to deal with that.

So I think there's a little bit of both.

Jennifer, what kind of stuff do you deal with?

- I don't think I've ever had someone sitting

in a 105 degree car.

- Well, I mean, it was Thailand.

It's not my fault.

- Okay.

I was like, I'm not sure where this was,

but my favorite right now is my show

that records on Microsoft Teams.

- Oh, please.

- Yeah, it records at 16, not 44.1, not 48, 16.

It's very bad, and it sounds bad,

and I send it off to one of my sub editors,

and he's like, "What are they doing?

This sounds so bad."

I'm like, "It's Teams," and I've told them,

"Hey, guys, why don't you get on something like Riverside?"

(laughs)

And they still haven't,

because they use Teams for everything,

so we're just gonna keep recording our podcast on Teams.

And then they have guests,

and then their guest comes on Teams,

and their guest doesn't,

like, at least the hosts have Samsung Q2Us or something,

so they don't sound as bad as they potentially could,

but then they'll have a guest who doesn't have a mic,

and that's what I deal with weekly.

(laughs)

- I get that, and on the one hand, I'm going,

"Well, at least they're using Teams,"

which is going to mangle the audio

for everybody consistently, right?

You're not gonna have a host with a local recording

that sounds like they're in a recording studio,

followed by a guest and two co-hosts,

or whatever the number is.

I have no idea.

Where it sounds like they're underwater.

And also, as far as conferencing services go,

Teams is pretty crap,

but also it does a pretty good job

with reverb and noise reduction, that kind of stuff.

Even the background removal, I mean, there are artifacts.

You can hear 'em, you can see 'em,

but it's actually doing a pretty admirable job

of doing something it wasn't intended to do,

and I think that's the difference

between a recording solution that's intended to do this

and something that's just been hijacked.

- Is that the right word for it?

- Maybe, Zoom. (laughs)

Zoom has definitely been hijacked for podcasting.

- Yeah, I don't wanna beat that drum too hard.

We'll probably beat it in a little bit,

but I also wanna be really clear.

Again, we're not just doing this

because we're recording for Riverside

and they happen to be sponsoring the show.

We were gonna do this, but it makes it really interesting.

- Well, your point is also,

we're gonna get bad audio from time to time.

So is that okay?

- For me, if it's the host,

I might give 'em once or twice, right,

and just kinda deal with it,

and if they ask a question, or if I send it back

and it's obviously not the level that they're accustomed to,

or maybe when I get it, I might just say,

"Hey, this doesn't sound the same.

"Are you sure you want me to do this,

"or are you sure you wanna publish this?"

If it goes more than a couple times,

then we'll have a conversation.

- Gotcha.

- I'm like you, I kinda come at it sideways,

like, "Did you change your microphone?

"Is something on the computer not right?"

It can't possibly be because you decided

to leave it at home and record without it.

You wouldn't do that, or any of that kinda stuff.

I try not to be super cheeky about it.

I try to be understanding and kind,

because a lot of times, they don't know.

They don't realize that Zoom changed their input

until it's too late, and maybe they don't listen back,

which is something I recommend,

but I recommend a lot of things.

- Zoom did that to me once.

I had no idea.

- Oh no.

- I was the guest, though,

so the host totally should've known.

- Yeah, and we've had something like that happen

on a show that I co-host called The Podcast Gauntlet.

I co-host that with Mike Wilkerson,

and we've been on a couple of times where he'd be like,

"Your microphone doesn't sound right.

"I'm hearing a lot of the fan or something."

We'll go through, sometimes we'll spend 30 minutes

troubleshooting before we go,

"Oops, StreamYard selected the wrong input,"

or something like that, but it's happened on both sides.

Like, "Hey, sounds like you've got your,

"he uses earbuds to listen.

"Sounds like you've got your earbuds selected."

And we do that, but with a guest and a host,

if they're not listening for it, they're not gonna hear it,

especially if the host is used to recording laptop mics

or those earbuds that plug in, like that kind of thing,

and somebody shows up on a professional mic

with a good setup, they may not recognize

that it's the wrong microphone

because they're so used to hearing the other stuff.

Which leads to the whole,

I saw that Steve Stewart posted it today,

the scratch test, if you get on before you do it,

like, "Can you hear this?

"Is that the right microphone?"

Just making sure.

If we move on, the next piece in my mind,

like, sounding and looking great,

I'm gonna go for audio because,

one, that's my expertise, that's what I'm good at,

and two, I think audio is way more important.

I just do.

But I think, and maybe I'm wrong in this,

I think that most of the time,

we get the order of things wrong.

So if you're coaching somebody how to sound great,

whether they're setting up a new one

or you're trying to help them troubleshoot something,

where do you start with having the discussion about it?

- When I first get people,

I get them knowing nothing, usually.

But I had a consultation call this morning

and I'm going over the basics

of starting a podcast with this girl,

and then it's like, well, microphone.

She's like, "Oh, I have a Yeti."

I said, "No."

- Microphone shaming coming up now.

- Yes, microphone shaming, for sure.

I'm like, "It can be a good mic

if you use it in a well-controlled space

because it'll pick up everything."

And she's like, "Yeah, that's not what I have to deal with."

I'm like, "Okay, well, here, buy this other one,

look for a dynamic mic."

And I was having a conversation with someone

on just Facebook Messenger about it,

hey, look for a dynamic mic or be prepared to sound treat.

And one of the things I talk about

in one of the things your editor wants you to know,

I think it's the talk I give,

I have like five podcast talks I do,

but one of them, I talk about how people will spend $400

on the fancy Shure mic or lots of dollars

on the RODECaster Pro, but they won't treat their space.

- Right.

- And then it's like, well,

why don't you invest some of that money in treatments?

Like this pretty thing behind me, it looks like a painting.

No, it's actually acoustic treatment from Amazon.

So it's not the best, but it's better than nothing.

- Yeah, totally.

That's the same kind of conversation I have, right?

Before I recommend gear or anything like that,

the first question is,

tell me about where you're gonna record.

- Yeah.

- Is it gonna be the same place every time?

Are you gonna have more than one person there?

Tell me about the room.

How quiet is it?

If it turns out to be a dining room table

in a tiled kitchen, the next question for me might be,

is there another option?

- Yeah.

- We can work with this, maybe,

but it may be harder and more expensive

than if there's another option.

And occasionally, depending on who I'm working with,

I may send them throughout the house and go,

hey, go to each room and listen.

What do you hear?

Do you hear road noise?

Do you hear the air conditioner?

Do you hear the dogs?

Like which room from an ambient noise standpoint

is the quietest?

That's probably going to be

the best recording space for you.

Maybe a compromise, it may end up not being an option,

but at least you start hearing that stuff as a host.

You start stepping toward that audio expert piece.

And then when we found the best place,

then we start talking about how do we treat it.

Now, a lot of my clients,

most if not all of my clients,

have been either unable or unwilling

to do a sufficient amount of acoustic treatment

in their space.

So in my studio, or slash office,

slash used to be the spare bedroom,

I have some auto mute sheets on the side walls.

They're mostly out of frame,

especially when it's zoomed in like this.

So you can't really see them.

But I have four of those huge sheets throughout my office.

Have a little bit of rug on the floor.

It's wood, so I needed a rug.

I don't have anything on the ceiling,

but I'm very much considering it

because I'm either getting some slap back

from the floor to the ceiling,

or I'm getting something side to side

and it's starting to annoy me.

And then also those beautiful little pictures

on the back wall,

that's actually acoustic ceiling tile

covered in old t-shirts.

- I love that.

- Not the best, but it's something.

And my suggestion to them would always be,

okay, can we treat the space?

And if not, then we start looking,

well, what's the best microphone

or the best microphone type for you?

And in most cases,

it's gonna be just what Jennifer talked about, right?

The Samson Q2U, the ATR2100.

Those are both in sort of that 50 to $100-ish range.

If they've got a little bit more money,

I might recommend something like the Rode PodMic USB,

or the Samson Q9U, or the Shure MV7.

And Jennifer's got one.

I used to have one of those.

I have a Q9U.

I wanna get a PodMic just to try it out,

but I don't need to spend money on stuff I don't need, so.

- You used to be a microphone collector, though.

- I did, and I've still got a few.

And those are all USB mics,

and I'm choosing those on purpose, right?

One is because they're all expandable USB mics.

You can convert them to XLR if you need to.

And the other is because for most new podcasters,

I'm thinking what's the easiest thing to work with?

Plug it in, set it up, go.

- Right.

- Might need to look into a shock mount or some other stuff.

If they're having more than one person in the same space,

I'm probably gonna recommend a RodeCaster or a PodTrak P4.

They both capture good recordings.

They both capture isolated channels per person,

so none of this, it's all blended together garbage.

And then I'm probably gonna recommend something

like the Sennheiser E835 or the SEV7,

which are both dynamic handheld microphones.

They're stage microphones.

They do a good job of rejecting other voices, if you will.

And so those are the kinds of things I'm looking for, right?

How can we control reverb and echo in the room,

ambient noise, other people talking?

And then we might have to have a conversation

about how are you sitting?

Are you both facing each other?

Are you both looking at an angle,

and one of you is sort of behind

the other person's microphone, too?

- And I'm a huge proponent of one mic per person.

I recognize there are rare situations

where you might need to mic everybody together,

but that should never be the goal.

The goal should always be, in my mind,

one mic per person and headphones

if there's any kind of playback going on.

In fact, I prefer headphones just because,

at least for me, it keeps me on the microphone.

Otherwise, I have a tendency to wander all over the place.

If I start moving and I hear it in my headphones,

I've trained myself to get back on the microphone,

and that's something that I've seen some clients do as well.

What about you, Jennifer?

- Yes, sounds good.

But with my Mary Queen Stories podcast,

we used the PodTrak P4 with four Samsung Q2U mics,

depending on how many people.

Usually it's just two of us,

but I've had up to four people on the show with me.

And we record in the worst room,

but it's the only room available in the church

for us to record.

So that's where we record.

It is carpeted, but it's big and echoey,

and that's where post-production comes in.

So using good mic technique,

and I tell them all, don't bang on the table,

keep your hands to yourself, put your keys away,

put your phone on the floor, all those good things.

But I know what to do in the background.

So a casual podcaster who's editing their own

might not know what to do in post-production

and would sound terrible if they recorded like I do.

I wish I had a better place, but I don't.

- And sometimes that's a challenge.

And of course, my question to you,

if you were the client is, is there another place?

Does it have to be at the church?

Could it be recorded somewhere else?

- It's a church podcast.

I don't want people to come to my house.

- I'm not saying it has to be your studio,

but is there another place?

And that's a question for you, right?

You're the one doing the post, you're the one hosting,

you're the one producing, it's all your problem.

- I am doing everything on this show,

except guesting, which I haven't done a solo one yet,

but I might get stuck doing that at some point.

- Yeah, so the area that I've now started dabbling in

a little bit, and I'm far from an expert,

but I'm trying to get better is absolutely in the area

of helping clients with video, starting first on myself.

So we got here over the course of the last decade,

and now I'm trying to take what little bit I've learned

in 10 years and make it available for clients.

Currently, I don't have any clients

that are doing video shows.

I have some in the past that have captured video,

but it's never been, well actually I have one now

that still captures the video, she just doesn't publish it,

which of course is her call.

The thing for me that was a really big learning

was taking a step back and going,

actually, before we start talking about cameras

and all of the gadgets, I think it starts just like,

just like with audio, choosing the space

and treating the space.

So for me, it's all about, you know,

did you find a quiet place, did you find a place

where you can, not that's well lit,

that you can control the lighting?

- Ooh, yeah, that's good.

- That's a really big one.

In fact, this room is good at night.

It's not quite as good during the day

because there's a portion of the window

that's still not covered, and so I lose the ability

to control the level of ambient light in the room.

I still have my, I have a three-ish point light set up here,

and I still have control of that,

but what I don't have control of is how much light

hits the back wall, or if a cloud comes in,

I don't have control over that, so that's a big thing.

But you sort of have to think, how am I gonna set this up,

and what's important to me?

So in some cases, having control over your background

may not be a big deal for a client.

However, my opinion is if they're going to pay somebody

to do post on their video, they probably want it

to look good, and so that's the conversation

I'm getting ready to start having first.

If they wanna do videos, okay, let's talk about the space.

How are you gonna set it up so that it communicates

consistently with your brand?

I don't know, with the persona that you

or your company have, I'm not saying we have to have

a bunch of your logo on the back, or it has to be

one of those ESPN stop and snap things

that just plastered all over the place,

but does it communicate something that says,

I thought about this, and the pieces that are here

are either in use or they matter, and I've arranged them

in such a way that it's not distracting?

Hopefully, as I look at mine, I hope mine isn't distracting,

but that's where I start.

What about you, Jennifer?

So I do have one active video client right now.

I have one audio person about to go to video.

With the active video client, they'd already

recorded the videos before they got to me.

So there was no pre-chat.

I mean, they just, I haven't had that conversation,

because they've already, and the other guy,

he's like, nope, this is how I do it.

I just need you to do this and this and this,

and I'm like, okay, yes sir,

and so I haven't ever had anyone,

because previously people would come to me and say,

I wanna start a video podcast, and I'd just tell them no.

So I've grown in that area.

I don't say no anymore, but also,

I'm still an audio first person,

and like you said earlier, audio's still more important

than the video aspect of it in our audio editing opinions.

Yeah, I mean, skin in the game, but also,

wasn't it James Cameron that said that half

of the movie is the audio?

Yeah, and his movie should take away the audio.

Yeah, can't lose or something.

Wasn't trying to throw him under the bus.

No, but still, got some powerful moments thanks to music.

Where do you go after you talk about that?

For me, it's lights.

That's always been my opinion,

and I think it holds consistent with what we would expect

out of audio, right?

So there's that whole signal to noise ratio.

You wanna be close to the mic, that kind of stuff.

I think for me, having the subject illuminated well

is probably more important than having a high quality camera.

I think you can capture a good video

with good lighting and an okay camera,

but I think with bad lighting,

even a good camera might struggle.

Now, I'm not talking about a $10,000 cinema camera.

That can probably pull a rabbit out of the hat.

That's what they're there for,

but sort of that consumer prosumer area,

I think that lighting is way more important.

For me, I've just got a pair of off-brand GVM panel lights,

so little circle panels on a stick

that you can stick on your desk, 'cause they were on sale.

And I had a couple of other lights

that were much more directional.

I didn't get a good wash out of those.

You see how my shadow's kind of fuzzy?

That's on purpose. (laughs)

Because I don't wanna have a super bright light

on myself as a subject.

Now, if I actually knew what I was doing with video,

I might have a better explanation,

but that's kind of the approach that I've taken,

having learned everything I could on YouTube

and a couple of webinars or something.

And then after that, for me, it's the camera.

And I'm kind of conflicted on this,

because on a personal level, I've tried a few webcams,

including a 4K webcam, and I never felt

like they got me a really good picture.

I really like to play in sort of that $100 to $200 range

for a camera. - Yeah, yeah.

- Right now, I'm actually using my iPhone,

just plugged into the computer,

and I feel like I get a pretty good picture out of that.

But I'll also happily share that I currently have

a Sony ZV-E10 in my shopping cart at Amazon,

and I'm trying to talk myself off the ledge,

going, "You don't really need it.

"The iPhone is probably doing you okay,

"but there's a part of me that just keeps going."

But then how will you tell a client what to do, Bryan,

if you don't buy this for yourself?

So I'm still arguing with myself a little bit,

because to be completely honest,

I couldn't help a client troubleshoot an SLR

or a DSLR right now, or even something like that,

ZV-E10 from Sony.

And also, I wanna see for myself,

what's the difference between the USB connection

that's not sending it 4K versus the HDMI out

going into a Cam Link or something like the Rode Streamer X

or something, where you're capturing all of that 4K

in all of its glory, which then we stream to the internet

and let people listen to on earbuds.

But yeah, welcome into my brain.

And this is always the challenge for me,

because part of me wants to do that,

sort of the research and development thing,

but also I have to stay profitable.

That's kind of an important thing.

Otherwise, eventually the IRS reclassifies you as a hobby

and you don't get to write stuff off anymore.

So it's important to be a business, not financial advice,

said the guy who just said that.

- If you're just in a video podcast, your phone is fine.

And one of the things that I heard come out

of podcast movement, I wasn't actually there for the talk

and I don't remember who said it,

is that podcasters need to be on YouTube,

but not necessarily podcasts on YouTube.

- Yeah, that's something I've been thinking about.

And I think it's something that came up

in one of our private calls as well.

Because we currently, at least in theory,

stream this live to YouTube and Facebook.

Occasionally it doesn't stream properly.

And so we ended up with a slightly edited version of this

going up to YouTube, but it's still the whole thing.

And part of me is going, should it be the whole thing

or should we just be pulling a section?

And I'm really kind of struggling with that

because I don't know that our show does a great job

of introducing and working through a section

from start to finish.

I think that we do a good job

of having a wonderful conversation around a topic,

but maybe not staying on the topic as we just demonstrated.

- So I guess the request from me to you, dear listener,

dear viewer, would be, if you were to see a short segment

of this show, what stood out to you?

What would you be interested in seeing

as a standalone video?

Is there anything or do you just wish we would shut up

and go away?

- The theory is that people would discover you on YouTube

with your short or your shorter,

and then they'd be like, wow, this is fascinating,

and follow you over to your content.

- And I hope that's right.

'Cause I think the last couple of times

I've pulled a few shorts out of the Riverside recording.

Riverside doesn't have an AI tool

that helps you identify those things.

Since it's not a client show, I take what it gives me

and I put those out there.

If it was a client show, I'd go find those sections

and create the videos myself,

partially because I feel like a jerk

if I'm charging them and not really doing anything,

but also partially because I think I do it better.

I'm not a great video editor,

but I would do some things different

than just the straight thing that Riverside or StreamYard

or any other tool pulled out,

because you can do some creative stuff with layouts

and the templates that you use for your fonts

and that kind of stuff where some of these tools,

even like CapCut, you just kind of end up

with what you end up with.

And I like to be a little bit more hands-on

and creative with that.

Do you do any of that kind of stuff?

- Yeah, I use Opus Clips.

- Okay, do your clients look great in Opus Clips?

Maybe I'm wrong.

- The last guy had a terrible camera angle.

Nothing was gonna help him look great.

So I was kind of thankful for the big old captions

going across the screen,

because he not know he was on video.

That's what I wanted to ask.

I'm like, do you not know that this was a video podcast?

But in Opus Clips, you can do different layout,

I mean, as far as orientation goes,

and you can change the color and change a little bit.

But I also played with the Underlord in the script.

They call it Underlord now, their AI tool.

And I got a nice, I thought it looked nice,

what it did for me,

'cause it found me something that Opus Clip didn't find,

and I had to go digging.

So that's what I used.

And I liked the look of it.

- Cool.

- So I don't remember which login I used to access that.

So the script is like, we don't find your project anymore.

I'm like, oh, I have three emails I've used.

I don't know which one it was.

- This person that you're talking about,

was that a client or was that a guest on the show?

- That was the guest.

- So you're probably not gonna have the conversation

with them about the next time they're on the show.

- No, and this is one of those,

they recorded before they hired me things.

So I couldn't have said, the host is fine.

She's sitting at a desk or talking to her computer

and sitting still.

And this guy was like, hey.

- So she was the opposite of me.

And I'm just the guy that's all over the place.

And I know I'm on camera, so this is the worst.

The other thing that I've been thinking about,

'cause we've been talking about troubleshooting

and helping clients set themselves up.

But there's another way that we could potentially help them.

And that's by being there to engineer their shows.

- Yeah.

- It's not something that I currently do.

It's something I could do.

But for me, scheduling has been a challenge

because I have a day job.

And my clients like to sleep at night

'cause that's when I work, I guess.

(laughs)

I don't know.

- And I've talked to, it seems like more people lately

and I'm just finding them who do this.

I met a guy at Podcast Movement, John, shout out to John.

Don't remember his last name right now, it's served with an S.

But thanks for coming to our meetup, John.

And he was like, well, yeah,

I totally do this with all my clients.

And Chris Kern, Podcast Engineering School,

he does that with everyone.

And I think, well, Jesse does that.

- Jesse does.

And I think John Gay did some as well,

but I think he did it in person, not remote.

- Okay.

It just seems like, I don't know if they're just,

if it's one of those, I've been thinking about it more.

So I'm seeing all these people things.

- Yeah, could be.

- John and I had a one-to-one after Podcast Movement.

And I'm like, I don't know if I wanna do that.

And he said, actually it makes post-production a lot easier

because if you're there with them,

then you can take notes and do markers as you go

and fix it in pre instead of fixing in a post.

And this and that.

I'm like, okay, but I still don't really know

if I wanna sit there for an hour

with someone while they record.

- Yeah, and having not done it, I can't say for sure.

But I mean, I've certainly been on some shows

where I didn't talk a lot.

So it's kinda felt like that sometimes, right?

- Yeah.

- And I think it goes back to that whole

capturing a great recording

and also giving the host somebody else to lean on

so that they don't have to be the heavy

when it comes to you didn't show up with headphones

and you're using your laptop microphone.

So depending on the host's desire, we either cannot proceed,

we have to reschedule,

'cause this is not what our audience expects

and we're not going to present you to our audience

in a way that doesn't flatter you.

Or we can do this, you're not gonna sound great.

Are you sure that you can't take two minutes

to find those earbuds and plug them in?

They can relax, right, in more ways than one.

One is when you show up with your editor,

audio, possibly video person hat on,

you can very quickly help them go,

okay, we can make the best of this right now.

We're not gonna build your set,

but can you turn your camera?

Can we do something with that background?

Can you slide up a little bit so we can see your face?

Like that kind of stuff?

- Yeah.

- It doesn't fix everything.

And then it also gives you the opportunity, potentially,

to know that they're gonna use good recording software,

like a good recording solution,

something like we're doing today with Riverside.

I also like Boomcaster.

I've seen reasonably good results come out of StreamYard,

Squadcast, don't recommend Zoom on a personal level.

But if you're there, you can help them make the most of it.

You can be the one that sets it up.

Most of these have the ability in some fashion

for you to create a link and be there

to host the thing for them,

even if you're not on screen getting recorded,

which is why I like Riverside's producer mode so much.

You get it all set up.

You don't have to worry about

accidentally appearing on screen,

which could be embarrassing, right?

And then you're just there to help them, right?

You get everything set up, you make sure it sounds good.

And then you're there making markers,

interrupting if necessary, and saying,

"Hey, you're off the microphone.

"We couldn't hear a word that you said.

"Can you try that?"

Like, or whatever, right?

So you're starting to step somewhat

between that audio/video engineer into

maybe a producer type role.

Hopefully you're getting paid for it,

or it wouldn't be worth doing.

But then, to this guy's point,

you know, the stuff that I've been on, right,

when we record this show, for me,

post-production's pretty much a breeze,

unless we're all over the place,

because we capture a good recording,

we all have reasonably good mic technique,

and so it's really just a matter of balancing and editing.

And we've gotten better about the um, so that's easier.

We'd have to ask Alejandra how bad it really is,

'cause I only edited a couple episodes this year,

but it was pretty easy for me, so I was happy with it.

- It was a lot better than the first ones four years ago.

- Which one?

- The one in the hallway at Podfest, did you do that one?

- Yeah, I did.

Actually, that one turned out pretty good.

- Oh, okay.

- If you're not familiar, episode one of this show,

we all recorded using handheld microphones,

sitting in a hallway at Podfest, and did it in person.

First episode, you can go back and check it out,

and see if we've grown at all, and hopefully we have.

- Hopefully we have.

- And then, I think the other thing,

and I don't remember who said that they do this,

we had somebody on, Marcus DePaula, used to send,

probably still does send a microphone to guests,

if they don't have one, and that's another option.

- I've heard of people doing that.

- In his case, I think it was a Samsung Q2U,

or an ATR2100, something like that.

Basically, you're just looking for a mic

that can be plugged in easily,

just USB with a headphone jack in it,

so it's really easy to set up.

The several companies have a small condenser microphone

that you could potentially put on the desk,

plug their headphones into,

that way you don't have to worry about them

getting it as close to them.

The trade-off, of course, is you're dealing with room tone.

And truthfully, when I had guests on my show,

and I sent them a microphone,

I sent them a $15 microphone from Amazon.

It was, wasn't a Samsung, it was a CAD.

- Oh, yeah.

- It was just a $15 microphone with a USB port,

no headphone port, muddy as all get out, right?

Super heavy in the mids and the low mids, like super muddy.

But you get 'em on it,

you capture a reasonably good recording,

and then you just EQ it until it sounds right.

I know it sounds dumb,

and that's not how you would do it

in a professional recording studio,

but the reality is,

this was still better than their laptop mic.

I promise you, it was better than their laptop mic.

One thing we didn't talk about is,

if they don't want headphones like this on camera.

So you and I are both wearing over the ear cans, right?

We're good with that.

- Like the same ones.

- They work for their purpose,

and they're pretty good at noise isolation

so that I'm not getting Jennifer into my microphone

and back and forth.

Some people don't like having these on,

even though this is apparently the identifier of a podcast.

You have over the ear headphones on now.

It doesn't matter if it's a podcast.

- Part of my logo.

- Or any of that stuff.

It's just the headphones and a microphone, of course.

But that notwithstanding, if they don't wanna do that,

I would just recommend having them check into

an inexpensive pair of in-ear monitors.

I'm not talking about like earbuds

where they hang down the in-ear monitors

that are supposed to go over your ear

and then down your back like you would wear on stage

if you're playing guitar or singing or something like that.

They don't have to be high quality, right?

'Cause they're not editing.

They're not trying to get the EQ right.

They need to hear the guest.

And I've seen a couple pair, I don't remember the brand,

I think Sure has one and some others,

that's essentially clear.

So you might get a little bit of glint off of the sides

if you turn your head and there's a light that hits it.

Cord goes down the back, you plug it in.

It's basically off camera.

You almost look like you're on TV at that point

other than that you've got a microphone in frame

'cause I don't think any of us are ready

to try and help our client set up

an over the head boom mic.

- Right.

- That's just a disaster waiting to happen.

I mean, maybe I'm wrong, but that's my take on it.

So I think if they wanna do that 40, 50 bucks,

which is less than these,

you can get an okay pair of over the ear, in ear monitors

and it can be basically invisible.

And then they don't have to worry about having cameras

like headphones on camera.

- Good tip.

Thank you, Bryan.

- You're welcome.

That was free.

And now I'm not sure where we should go next.

So this is the part where we stare at each other awkwardly

until one of us says, "What's the question of the day?"

- What's your go-to snack or drink during long

editing sessions?

- Mine is water.

I generally keep a water bottle.

If it's in the morning, I may have a coffee,

but I haven't been editing in the mornings recently.

I've been sleeping instead because that makes me feel good

and not capable.

So I've been doing that instead.

- Yeah, good plan.

- At nights when I'm editing,

I'm not gonna have coffee or caffeine.

So it's usually water, maybe a Dr. Pepper

if it's a Saturday or something.

As far as snacks, I don't snack a lot while I'm editing,

mostly because I've found that people only say,

"Um," when I go to take a bite so that I have to stop

and go back a minute and find the spot.

I don't know, Jennifer?

- Usually I'm just water,

which makes me have to get up a lot of times,

but I have my bourbon barrel water cup

and keep that filled up with water.

But yesterday and then today,

I know I'm gonna have later nights.

So I've got my Coke Zero or Diet Coke,

and then my trash can has an M&M wrapper in it,

'cause that's what I was doing yesterday

during my long editing session,

but I don't usually have M&Ms around.

But it's more like just drinking something

keeps me from eating.

So I don't frequently snack while I'm editing,

but usually water.

Now there's a girl, 'cause I work at the church too,

and my coworker, she's like, "You have a coffee addiction."

I'm like, "I have four cups a day.

I don't drink any after I go home."

But if I were sitting here on a weekend working,

probably be some coffee.

- Nice.

If you're watching or listening later,

we would love to know what your snack or drink of choice is

while you're editing.

You can either drop it in the chat while you're listening

or send it to info@podcasteditorsmastermind.com,

because we would love to hear from you.

Just in general, we'd love to hear from you.

We do this show because we wanna connect with you

and we hope that it's valuable for you.

And also a laugh every now and then is good for us.

Helps us keep going.

Jennifer, if somebody wants to be a guest on the show

or recommend a new topic for us to consider,

what would they do?

- Well, they could reach out to us directly

if you're friends with us on Facebook

or drop it in the Facebook group,

the Podcast Editor Mastermind on Facebook,

or go to podcasteditorsmastermind.com/beaguest.

- Hopefully easy enough.

As a reminder, all the links that we talked about

to the best of our ability will be in the show notes.

So either come back and listen later

so you can click through and find all of that stuff.

Or if you're listening on your podcast app,

just tap, swipe, however you get there.

Make those links happen because we want you

to have the tools to do your job.

As a note, if you use Riverside,

that link is an affiliate link.

So if you use that, we get a little bit of compensation.

We are very happy that Riverside has been sponsoring this.

Make sure you use that code, Yetis, Y-E-T-I-S,

at checkout to save that 15% off of your order.

And we would be very happy if you did that.

That would make us feel good and we would appreciate it.

And so would they, and hopefully your clients will too

when they realize how good a recording they can have.

With that, I'm gonna stop blathering

and we're gonna call my name Bryan Entzminger.

You can find me at toptieraudio.com.

And on this side is--

- Hey-o, I'm Jennifer Longworth,

bourbonbarrelpodcasting.com or anywhere bourbon is found.

Just kidding. (laughs)

- Almost anywhere.

- And unable to join us tonight, we're Daniel Abendroth.

You can find him at rothmedia.audio.

And Carrie Caulfield, you can find her at Carrie.land.

Show notes and everything at our podcast

editorsmastermind.com.

That's also the place to go to subscribe,

to send us flowers.

Just kidding, we don't take flowers.

That's the place to go. - I would.

- Thanks everybody, we appreciate you being here.

- So-- - How much is that?

(man grunts)

(man grunts)

[music fades out]