You gotta not carry a ton of inventory.

You gotta, you know, you gotta use the just in time system.

You're having to run a leaner crew because labor costs more now than it ever has.

Yep.

And if you're not monitoring labor, it will eat you alive.

We had a potential client come and say, hey, I've got this goal of increasing my revenue, staying profitable and maintaining quality.

Yep.

I was like, well, that's not one goal.

That's three goals.

Yes.

And they can't all happen at once.

No, it's not possible.

Most people don't understand what the emotional curve of marketing is.

When you start moving forward, you start having self doubts.

Have I made the right choice?

Is this worth it?

Should I just close the business?

I don't know if this is right.

Am I being taken advantage of by the agency?

Am I doing the wrong things?

Are we targeting the wrong things?

Am I a bad salesman?

Am I a bad leader?

You start getting all this negative self talk creep in, and then all of a sudden it's like an explosion of vertical growth comes out of nowhere.

The Talk and Pain podcast is brought to you by detailing growth.

That's detailinggrowth.com.

dot detailing growth is the industry's only us based full stack agency that provides you with full custom web design, ongoing SEO, local SEO via Google, business profile, ad management for Google and Meta, and an entire business suite of automations with our grit suite.

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Head over to detailinggrowth.com and sign up for a free strategy session.

Hey, everybody, this is Gabe from the Talking Paint podcast.

We're back today with another episode trying to educate you about marketing in the auto detailing and auto film sector.

Today I'm joined by my partner in detailing growth, Tyler Lorray.

And we're going to chat today about how what used to work ain't cutting it anymore.

Tyler, how you doing today?

Awesome, man.

Always a pleasure to be on the.

Yeah.

It has been a busy week for detailing growth, and we've had a lot of conversations with people here in 2024.

They're coming to us, these shops and businesses, and I feel like the number one thing that we hear is, I never used to have to spend this much or it wasn't this hard.

It used to not be this hard.

And overall, things are different and people are having a really hard time adapting.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I mean, think about it like.

And it kind of just hit me.

We had Covid hit right?

And then this.

We now have this AI boom.

We've got an election coming up.

Like, we have like a crazy storm of events happening.

So I think it's, it's a, it's a big change for a lot of people, a lot of the younger business owners that, you know, aren't used to, you know, some of these things happening.

You know, Google changes, obviously, an election year, the economy, you know, maybe not doing its best.

I think there's a lot of uncertainty, for sure.

Yeah.

I think that the number one thing that we hear the most is that, that how hard people are having to work to get people closed and on the schedule now they're having to work harder at closing leads and they're having to do more.

And often they're getting less because they're, number one, they're spending more time on it and because they're trying to stay competitive with the rest of the market with all the other jokers out there who are under charging.

Right.

And of course, you know, that's a problem in and of itself, leaning on pricing as your differentiator.

I think that the number one thing we hear is people are having a hard time closing people.

They're spending more time, and now it takes a way longer to, to get people to the point where they're ready to put a deposit down and they're ready to book an appointment.

And I, for one, know for a fact that the buying journey has changed here in 2024 versus when I look back to 2021, the buying journey is at least doubled for the customer.

There's more people out there in the market now.

There's so there's like twice as many shops that have popped up.

And now with Google's fantastic changes to the Adwords system, there is now twice as many sponsored ad locations on search.

Yep.

There's that much of a change that now takes somebody who would typically take ten to 15 touches now takes like 30, 25 to 30 touches.

And people, people say that they just, they never used to have to work this hard.

And what's the other one that we hear a lot, that it wasn't so expensive.

Yeah.

We never used to have to spend this much.

Yeah.

So you got it kind of twofold.

Right.

You have businesses that have been in business for ten plus years that built off of word of mouth or the brand at the time, they didn't have to worry about Google Ads being so expensive.

They didn't have to worry about.

All right, competitors.

Then you got the younger shops that really haven't dealt with anything and they're fighting through this to play the game we get, obviously, a lot of different conversations going on, but it really all goes to, why is it so hard?

Right.

Why is it so hard?

Obviously, if we had the exact answer, then we probably wouldn't be talking about it.

Exactly.

I think really beyond just strategy, it takes a.

A specific person to fight through it, and there's like this emotional roller coaster that happens, you know, in that, in that process that you really have to understand and kind of fight through.

That's what's really been on my mind lately on that.

The one thing that I've also noticed recently is that if you remember back in 2021 with Facebook meta advertising in general, back then, it was super easy to create these highly dialed audiences.

And now, thanks to Apple and other privacy initiatives, now they've rolled back so much of the data that we as marketers would use to create such highly dialed in, targeted audiences, combined with pixel data from websites and landing pages, that we could get so laser focused that we could generate leads and outcomes from just Facebook advertising alone without doing anything else.

And the.

The cost of that at the time was significantly cheaper than doing Google Ads.

But now all of that data has been rolled out of meta, and a lot of these younger shop owners live on TikTok and they live on Instagram, and they're just not as well informed.

Right.

About what a complete marketing plan should look like.

Right.

And they're leaning on Facebook ads, and they're being taken advantage of by people who only offer Facebook ads for, you know, ceramic coatings or paint protection film or window tint.

And they're.

They're wondering why they can't get anybody to close and why they can't get people to the mark to get them on the books.

And it's like social media advertising has changed.

It's not this super laser effect anymore.

It's very, very general awareness based.

And I think that it's worth mentioning now that Facebook is not a direct lead generation source.

Right.

Because we just had somebody tell us the other day, they're like, they said, what did they say?

They said, we never used to have to need Google.

All we did was Facebook.

Yep.

Facebook isn't enough anymore.

And the big fundamental change is that they don't get that Facebook is indirect.

Facebook has zero search capability and search targeting, and nobody searches on Facebook for these services.

Right.

Yeah.

I mean, it's always been passive, but it's even more passive now.

Right, right.

So.

And that's.

That's what I think.

That's where I think everyone's going wrong or missing the mark because, right.

Like, you used to be able to run a Facebook ad and, like, you would get people that were at least halfway interested, and then it was easy to close them.

But you're getting people that are maybe 10% interested.

They're clueless.

You don't know how to do the 90% because you never had to do it before, and it's not set up, so it's making it almost impossible.

And that's where, like, the whole, we could get into the whole unqualified, qualified situation, but that's where that kind of plays in.

That's for another call, maybe, and that's.

Another episode that I really just, I'll start cussing.

And that said is that Facebook is now not a direct to lead generation source in this sector.

Facebook is now a part of a bigger plan.

It's not a direct inbound lead generation source anymore.

It's just not going to work that way.

Facebook is now the retargeting component of a full 360 degree marketing plan.

Yeah.

And that, that kind of leads me back to how people, people are now leaning on, like, how they're saying how much money they're having to spend on marketing.

Right.

So people are getting savvy, they're getting wise.

I can tell you that two years ago, I didn't have two thirds of the competitors in my market on Google advertising that I do now.

And now I spend twice as much on Google than I do in a month than I did two years ago.

And that's because I've gone from having two other competitors in my market to having six.

Yep.

Now I have six people fighting for three spaces and maybe a map pack space in my market.

And it's like supply, meet demand.

It's like people just generally don't grasp that.

And it's, as a marketer, I feel like I can only do so much education with them and I can only help them along so much before, before I start feel like I'm talking to like, the, a brick wall and I can't deal with it anymore.

And I just have to, like, close the conversation.

When, when we look at this as a whole, it comes down to one.

People are just flat out uninformed about how they should look at marketing in their business.

They're not aware of the skills that they're lacking when it comes to the marketing and, and having that upskill component to have conversations and be able to read conversations.

That's another, maybe another extremely important piece that, that people are missing, especially in the younger generation.

They're missing it completely because back when, you know, before that, the generation before that, the most young ones now that are running businesses, they had to do sales.

Yep.

That was just like a part of your everyday gig.

And now you don't.

There's less experience of that out there.

So we're having to teach these kids how to sell.

Yeah, we're having to teach them how to sell.

And not only just sell the service, because, again, a whole nother conversation, but sell themselves, which is really what sets them apart.

So there's a lot of just little pieces being missed throughout this whole journey.

And I think a lot of people, even, even some of the ones that have been in business forever, they're just learning.

They have, you know, can't teach an old dog new tricks.

Yeah, that's, you know, everyone's learning something new here.

As the market's completely changing, let's shift.

Into what it looks like to be a business now and what it looks like to be effective.

You got to be agile now.

You got to be, you got to be lean.

You got to not carry a ton of inventory.

You got to, you know, you got to use the just in time system for carrying your inventory and how you're getting things done.

And now you're having to, you're having to run a leaner crew because labor costs more now than it ever has.

Yep.

And if you're not monitoring labor, it will eat you alive.

And, and now you need to, you need to have all of your ducks in a row when it comes to marketing, because if you just rely on pay per click, you end up at the bottom of the barrel.

When I google shifts its algorithm and you end up burning, you end up having such a high cash burn rate that you burn through all your operating cash before you can get to the next payroll cycle.

Yeah.

So I was gonna say it's important to note, like, not every business is different or not every business is the same.

Obviously, everyone's different.

And I had a conversation with someone yesterday about, you know, what season are you in?

Are you in a growth season or, you know, are you in the season that, you know, probably most people are in right now where cash is king, right.

Your margins need to be healthy, your profits got to be good, and you got to have cash in the bank because who knows whats going to happen tomorrow?

So a lot of people are in that, but there are people that are in growth season.

So you got to understand, where am I at right now?

Its okay if youre in growth season to break even, right?

Its okay.

You want to grow.

You want to get to that point of then being healthy down the road.

So I think thats important.

But then going into the marketing side, understanding that you can't just, you know, hit one avenue.

No, you got to hit them all.

Like you were saying.

Yep.

So.

And we got a test.

Yeah.

And we got to put, we got to, we got to give ourselves, as business owners the space for testing mentally and monetarily.

Yeah.

Which means not, maybe sometimes not taking it on all at once.

Most people come in and they jump on my calendar.

They say, I want leads and I want to do more business now, and I need it now.

And I'm like, hold on, hoss.

Let's back her down.

All right, turn.

Turn it down a bit.

We were talking earlier.

We had a potential client come and say, hey, I've got this goal of increasing my revenue, staying profitable, and maintaining quality.

I was like, well, that's not one goal.

That's three goals.

Yes.

And they can't all happen at once.

No, it's just not possible unless you.

Got the capital for it and the staff depth.

But this particular person didn't, and most don't.

Most don't.

Right.

So I think it's extremely important to understand where, what season you're in as a business owner and having that patience and understanding of.

Okay, I've got to change.

What do I tackle next?

I'm kind of hitting one thing at a time and slowly growing because, like, the easy growth, you know, starting a business and then getting to 100k, you know, it's not there anymore.

No.

You know, although, hold on.

We do have a client that's come on board, and he's a new roll up.

Right.

We have.

We have.

We have one new roll up right now that's active.

Who came to us.

What's that?

It's a unicorn.

Yeah, exactly.

This is a.

And this is extremely difficult now.

Yeah.

Like, back in 2021, this was easy, easier.

Even then it was difficult, and now it's almost unheard of.

Heard of to do this unless you've got deep pockets on capital.

So.

Which they do.

Luckily, this person had.

Now he has some.

He doesn't have enough.

He has some, but luckily, he's awesome at sales.

And that's been the particular I was willing to come to the plate for this particular individual that works with us, and I think he's in a Florida market, if I recall.

Right.

And he came to me and said, I can sell anything.

I just need some coaching a little bit more about running a business in this sector, and I need a little bit more coaching about the services specifically.

He's like, I'm about 80% of the way there.

And he was, he was, that's kind of where he was in his track for learning and selling.

So he came on board.

We helped.

We said, okay, go get your business.

Go, like, go register it, get your, get your lease signed, and here's, you know, this is where you're going to get, this is where you're going to pop up.

Okay?

So let's get your Google, my business register or Google Business profile registered.

So we went through that process and that ended up being a massive challenge as well.

And we had to call in a favor to get that one done.

Like a favor of a favor of a favor of a person we know.

And, and we built a website, helped him develop his branding and his messaging, and found him a local videographer.

And then we helped to coach him through, you know, how to speak to clients, the rate at which he needs to speak to them, and the type of messaging he needs to use.

And, like, luckily, it was like a very basic conversation I had to have with him because he was already aware of the things that you should do as a professional.

And in three months, this is almost unheard of.

He did ten grand the first month.

We booted up some Facebook ads.

First, while the website was being built, he did ten grand that month with no website, just a Google business profile and Facebook, which is like, that's a unicorn in and out by itself.

Month, two websites online, we start doing a local SEO push.

He does 20 grand.

And now this month, he rolled into this month with 30k on the books and scheduled work with deposits.

And now he's going to, I think he's going to close the month here.

On month three of operating, he's going to be doing 40k.

Dude, that's, that's unheard of.

Now to be able to do that.

Like, all I can say is, is that he picked the right team, that's for sure.

Because there's no other, there's no other agency that would have been willing to go this, this far for this guy.

And, and that's where I'm proud to say that detailing growth stands is to say that we are the people that you can count on when it comes to needing a confident business consult for our sector specifically.

So that's, that's one thing we've got down pat.

And second is having the sales skills allows you to jump into almost any business and just strap the business onto your back and carry it around like you're, you know, backpacking down, you know, through the mountains just outside of Laden.

I.

And this guy, I'm impressed whenever I think about it, because that's you.

I would say about 90% to 95% of the people that talk to us are incapable of that.

They just.

They don't.

They don't have.

They don't have that.

That.

They don't have that drive.

They don't have that.

They don't have those sales skills.

They don't have the messaging, understanding they're missing.

Right?

They used to.

For what?

Used to work when in actuality it was just Covid cash surplus when people were just like, oh, yeah, it'll be 15 grand when can you get me in?

Yeah, no, that's not happening anymore, man.

That's done.

That's done.

Unless your name is Joe Torbody and you run OC detailing out of the Bay Area, who gets a cybertruck shipment sent to his.

His shop from across the country.

Dude's a fucking maniac.

I can't believe that.

That was awesome.

It's just that kind of thing is unheard of now.

So it requires a more.

The reason I say that is it requires a more methodical approach.

Yeah, it is no longer, let's just activate all at once.

It's, let's do it strategically without burning up all your available capital.

You know, I understand you want leads right now, but you don't have any.

You know, the typical business to come to us is one that was doing between 35 and 55 grand a month, and now consistently, every month, they're on the lower end of that.

They had a low end website.

They never focused on SEO.

They're not consistent on social media.

They're not consistent on Google Business profile.

They're not publishing video content, they're not getting it on YouTube.

So that all of these things at the same time and.

Or they were just relying on Facebook ads.

All of these things come up now and we're like, okay, like, let's roadmap this out, because if we try and do this all at once, you're going to burn up all your cash because it's going to take too long.

Right?

So would you say that most people come to us and we're like, okay, let's get the website done.

Like, we'll get it dialed in, get it built with that foundational SEO that's going to speak to their target market for those locations and keywords that they're going to win at, and then let's start a solid Google business profile optimization.

We'll give you a roadmap to start making super high end dialed in content that you can use as a sales tool and you can help to educate your market with.

And then we'll do some local SEO and have them do that for two months and then strap them up into ads after they've made some money.

Because ads are so expensive now that, you know, if, if a shop has $3,500 to allocate towards marketing and by the time they pay for web SEO agency fees, there's nothing left for ad spend anymore because PPC is so expensive.

Right.

So, Tyler, I think, I, I, I want to ask you, is what is it that a shop who's in a situation of used to and used to ain't cut and used to is not cutting it anymore?

If I'm a shop in that position, how do I realize that that's where I am without somebody telling me?

That's a tough one.

How do you realize you just have to, you have to open your eyes and sometimes realize maybe you're too close to the project and that's where you got to be understanding from someone else's viewpoint.

And this kind of all goes along the, you know, the emotional curve of marketing.

Right.

Right.

A lot of people right now, no matter what, what situation, whether you just started or you've been in business forever, they're literally at the bottom of the curve there and they're just like trying to figure it out again.

Right.

So whether you're just starting out or like I said, you've been in business a while, you're at that bottom right now and you have a decision to make.

You know, do I accept the fact that we just are going to stay the way we are and we look to then just be profitable and maybe, maybe get rid of some people and maybe just take on certain things or are you looking to grow?

Do you want to hit that momentum and go?

So, you know, it's really hard to accept it, especially when things were working, but you just have to open your eyes and look around and know what's going on.

But again, there's nothing wrong.

There's literally nothing wrong if you're a business that's been around for a while or even if you're a newer business and you want to just stay skinny and stay profitable, because if you're in the season of, hey, cash is king and build up the bank account and be healthy.

Nothing wrong with that.

You just have to, you just have to accept which, which part of the business you want to be in?

Right.

Right.

That's all.

I agree with all of that.

Yeah.

Now let me touch on this, because most people don't know what the, what, what did we call it?

The emotional curve of marketing.

The emotional curve.

Right.

So I'm going to run this down to them.

Hopefully.

This, this is, this makes it easier to understand.

So most people don't understand what the emotional curve of marketing is.

So when you jump into a marketing plan and don't see immediate results, because there is.

That's where it starts.

So think of this linear line, right, that runs across your timeline and business.

So let's say you're above the line here, and you start, you're moving forward in your journey, and then all of a sudden, you dip below the line, and that line is going to represent what we call profitability and growth and momentum.

When you dip below that line, you start to shed, you start to burn.

You're burning capital up.

You're having high turnover in your staff.

You're having, you're spending a lot on ads.

You're not getting conversions.

You have a major setback in the business, whatever it is, right.

This, and.

And you're just, like, grinded to a halt.

And then you make some radical changes with, with marketing in the business to try and fix these things and to try and readjust your trajectory.

That's when you call me or Tyler or you call it, you start a new marketing plan.

Then you start to move forward.

And you're still going to be underneath of the profitability line.

You're still going to be underneath of the growth line.

When you start moving forward, you start having self doubts.

Have I made the right choice?

Is this worth it?

Should I just close the business?

I don't know if this is right.

Am I being taken advantage of by the agency?

Am I doing the wrong things?

Are we targeting the wrong things?

Am I a bad salesman?

Am I a bad leader?

You start getting all this negative self talk, creep in the.

And then all of a sudden, it's like an explosion of vertical growth comes out of nowhere.

And this is the compounding effect of marketing.

So it's twofold.

There's the emotional journey you need to take for yourself as you continue to travel underneath of that growth line.

And then you better make sure you're wearing your harness for when it immediately goes vertical at the other end of the line.

And now you're growing at rates that you never thought possible.

You're two xing, you're three xing.

You're four xing.

And that's when you need to be prepared for that.

And the only reason that it happens that way is because marketing compounds over time.

It's one of the only things that you can count on to be a for sure thing is that marketing efforts compound SEO, plus PPC, plus social media, plus video, plus being a good salesperson, plus having a good nurture, plus having the right messaging, all of those things, they compound and stack and stack and stack and stack until you get to the end of that journey where you're in that negative phase and all of a sudden you gain that traction that you're looking for and it's, you're on for that ride.

And that is the hardest thing to do as a business who's been at the top and felt great.

And I mean, you're in that growth stage and the next thing you know you're in crisis management.

That journey between crisis and back to growth state is the emotional curve of marketing.

And it is a motherfucker to go.

On, to say the least.

I think it's the least to know because you went over a ton of different marketing strategies, right?

Between SEO, website, Google Ads, everything, right?

The more you compound, obviously, the longer you're going to stay above that line, right?

But if you just focus on one, that's where you're really like.

You may eventually come back up above that line, but you're going to see a lot of up and down.

You're going to, you're going to dip between it.

Yeah.

Right.

Instead of getting the compounding effect, which is the compounding effect only happens when you spend the time and energy to create the systems and create a system of repeatability and accountability in your team.

And you're doing it on more than just yourself.

You're leveraging tools or you're outsourcing a service, you're working with somebody local, you're having one guy on your team take pictures.

Whatever it is, you know, leveraging help to do that is the only way that you can stack all of those concepts together and see the compounding effect.

And let me tell you, as somebody who understands it and who has it dialed in, I will rub, I'll rub my own, you know, I'll pat myself on the back here and say that I know that we've got those things dialed in.

Let me tell you, it makes all the difference when people come into my shop and they see it for the first time in person and then they're like, they hit the approval button for $15,000 for whatever it is that they're going to get, right.

It's that compounding effect that builds over time.

And I think that's the most important aspect.

That's what most of these guys are missing.

They don't have it and they don't have a clue.

Well, no, I'm just, I'm talking about the time aspect, right.

Because everyone, everyone wants to see that, that they don't.

There's no curve, it's just that line vertical.

They only want to see up that, right.

They don't realize that there's a lateral, there's a lateral stage in between and.

It'S, it's different for everyone.

Right.

And when you're talking about marketing, you know, obviously it all depends on where you are now and then what you're capable of, like you said.

So obviously the more money you have, the more capable you are, the faster it's going to go.

Right.

But a lot of these newer businesses or even older businesses that need to change a lot and kind of maybe start over, it's going to be three, six, nine months.

You never know.

And that's it.

Don't get me wrong, you might get lucky and you might be able to have a solid market and you might be able to get conversions more so and get more sales booked.

But oftentimes gambling on what the roadmap should be, which is establish your solid organic foundation.

You get your branding and your messaging dialed in so people understand who you are.

They like, they know you, they like you, they trust you.

So you're building that know, like trust factor.

You've got your video content supporting that, right?

These are all, these are all things that chuck that check off the organic box and you build the system around what it looks like to speak to somebody when they talk to you and you know what happens.

Like you define your internal customer journey of like, this is what I, this is where and how they should move through our, our business as a prospect.

You get that dialed in as a part of your foundation because if you've got that, you are rock solid.

You don't have anything hard to stand on.

You're sitting on a deck, whatever you want to call it, House of Cards or you're in quicksand or you're in swamp and marshland, whatever it is, whatever part of the dang old country you a part of, whatever.

For what it's worth, I love people from the south.

The difference is that when you start stacking on those multiplier effect styles of marketing, meaning you've got Facebook advertising, you've got a long term SEO game plan, you've got Google advertising, you've got older lead campaign reactivation.

So you've got like list reactivation, you've got email marketing where you offering specials and you've got, or some type of value initiative.

You start stacking on those multipliers.

The difference is that those multiplier marketing efforts, they require the foundation to be solid because they push back against you at first.

Think of like, I'm going to grab my monster can here so we can make some awesome visuals.

Think of like my monster can as the rocket.

Right?

So here's, here's your foundation and where you're at right here.

And then you've got your, your multiplier marketing efforts.

So here's all your PPC.

And if it's a rocket, what's coming out of the bottom of the rocket is thrust and fire and smoke.

Things that are propel you forward.

And if you don't have a solid foundation for that to propel against what happens, the foundation is just going to crumble and lose that forward.

You're going to burn the house down and then you lose that forward momentum.

The thrust that comes out of your marketing efforts ends up like a Tesla rocket test, just exploding everywhere.

It's a huge failure repeatedly.

So the point is, is that you move through stages and there is a roadmap and a plan and it's different for every single business.

And it should never be cookie cutter, but there are basic principles to follow and deviation from the foundational principles usually spells disaster.

Yeah, yeah.

And that's why you're, I mean, you're seeing even older businesses, they have to reset their foundation.

Right.

Because it was just too easy to run Google Ads or Facebook ads.

Exactly.

When you start out, it's too easy to just run to that because it's supposed to be quick wins.

But man, the landing hurts when you don't have the foundation.

Yep, landing hurts.

So all good stuff there.

Listen, I think that this was really solid.

This might be one of the most informative episodes that we've done here on talking paint.

So real quick, I would just want to invite you guys, check out the show notes or check out the video description on YouTube down there.

In the description and in those show notes, you're going to find a link to our Facebook group, you're going to find a link to our website where you can book a completely free strategy session where we'll look at your marketing and at bare minimum, you'll walk away from that conversation and know which way you should be pointed.

And you'll also find a link down to our free tools and resources.

We have tons of guides and resources and we've got some awesome AI tools that are coming out now.

You'll be able to generate social media content, right?

On detailinggrowth.com dot.

You'll be able to write your own social media posts that completely free, no charge.

So jump down there, take advantage of those things.

Make sure you get on the detail shift newsletter.

We're sending that out multiple times a month and you're going to get real, actionable insights with no sales fluff or anything like that directly in your inbox.

And you'll be able to count on that as you're going to learn something every time you open that.

So take advantage of that as well.

And hopefully you enjoyed this.

And if you did, I'd really like to see you down in the comments.

Maybe leave us a review on Apple or Spotify.

Hit that five star, give us a thumbs up subscribe comment.

We'd love to get your feedback.

There's also a link down in the description for you to leave feedback about this episode and if you found it helpful.

And so you can suggest other topics for us to cover here as well.

So those are all great things that are available to you.

Check those out.

Tyler, thank you so much for joining me today.

I know you're usually busy running the team, but I'm glad I was able to pull you away for a little bit.

Absolutely.

Always a pleasure.

Work done.

Thank you so much for listening and make sure you head over to talkinpaint.com.

that's talkin paint.com.

check out the show notes and our previous episodes.

We'll see you in the next one.