All right, brother.

Two hour drive from the valley.

Two hours and 20 minutes just to see us.

That's not a good, that's not a good start.

Well, you know, it's fine.

I.

I hate la.

Enough getting here was bad enough.

I used to drive to LA a lot.

We have a branch in Westwood and I used to drive there all the time.

It takes me longer to get to Westwood now than it takes me to get to Las Vegas.

You know, I still can't figure out I used to live here.

I used to live in Glendale when I was a kid.

Yeah.

Okay.

I can't understand why people live here like nowhere, Nowhere in California.

Like nowhere in California.

Doesn't make any sense.

There are pockets that are nice, but if high taxes.

Taxes are terrible.

Terrible.

Yeah.

Bad laws, terrible governance.

Politics are terrible.

Terrible.

Like across the board, like bad non common sense laws.

And the worst part is the homeless population has so bad.

Exactly.

Who otherwise were living in really nice areas are saying, I don't want to live there.

So outside of the weather, unless you're in Hollywood, which I get, you know, like if you're in porn in Hollywood, I get it.

Because it's like, where else are you going to go?

Even they're leaving, man.

Exactly.

They're starting trends to Florida too.

Yeah.

You're all coming over there?

Yeah.

I mean there was an exodus that went from, from here to Texas, here to like Nevada and here to Florida.

Yeah.

And it's gotten nothing but worse over time.

Exactly.

Even now they're trying to figure out.

And I think it's going to continue to get worse too.

Oh yeah, for sure.

I think it's going to get way.

Bad until there's some kind of like radical change politically.

Because Florida went from like where I used to live was like 400 a square foot to like $2,000 a square foot just because of all that constant like everyone's trying to come up there, like getting out of control.

Let's get to the good stuff.

I want, I want to get to what you do because there's a lot about what you do, right?

I do a lot of stuff.

And I will admit that I nerded out on your background long before you were contemplating this show.

No, no, no, I'm a big fan.

I like the other part.

Not the drug dealer part, the car part.

I've always loved cars.

I build a couple of cars myself.

And that's what I meant.

Car, drug dealer.

Yeah.

I'm hoping if this goes well, we can talk about you selling the 355 at some point in time.

Okay.

Because that car is immaculate.

And what you got, what you did, the interior with the black, black interior.

Oh, you're falling deep now.

355 happens to be a personal favorite, but.

Yeah.

So tell everybody what it is that you do and how we got to here.

Okay, So I teach people how to make really creative decisions around their finances in order to be able to avoid lifestyles that the universe, or should I say the government has made you believe you can't afford.

And so society has made people believe that they basically need to think a certain way about money over the years, over the last, you know, like five, six decades.

And as a result, people have become sheep across the world and have become very, very okay with living very mundane lifestyles, very boring, filled with lack of experience, lack of excitement.

And they continuously live in fear around finance that they're not going to have enough and that they need to be conservative and everything.

And I think I blame like the Sue Ormans, the Dave Ramsey's, the right complete morons.

But I'm saying, like, I look at those people as the people who have made quite a huge name for themselves and have had a lot of success over this baseline stupid finance angle of like education.

But because of that success, they've been non adaptive and been kind of like catering to their crowd.

So as they get bigger, they accumulate more followers rather than actual people who get better.

And so, you know, and I have a huge background in finance and so when I was in finance, I wasn't that rich.

I wasn't.

It was just a normal W2 guy, like working and I wanted a Lamborghini, so it was like, okay, Lamborghini W2 guy doesn't add up, you know, and.

People demonize people for one.

Right, exactly.

But there's nothing wrong with one.

No, I mean, listen, every.

The only reason, the only people who demonize money are people without money.

The only people who demonize power are people with no power.

So you never demonize what you seek yourself.

You'll only demonize what you don't think you can get.

So if you're a human being and you're like, oh, these guys, all they want is power and this and they just want to tell us how to live.

It's because you have zero control over anything you do in your life and you just project that out and you're basically like, I'm powerless across the board.

So I hate people that have power.

But like, there's never a person like, like for example, you don't have to like certain politicians.

But if you're already in power somewhere for something, you understand why they do what they do.

So you're not confused about it.

You're just like, I get it, like, if I could, I would also do that if I was in that power.

But most people don't think that way, right?

So like they just look at what they don't have and they just demonize what they'll never get.

Because then that way it's, it creates a peer group of other idiots they put together.

And these other idiots together just end up being like self satisfied that there's, that's just what they have.

So I have long had a theory, and Saeed's heard this over and over again, that during the Industrial Revolution, they got a lot of the wealthiest families in the United States together.

And they said, what do you want from your ideal worker?

The Rothschilds, the Vanderbilts, they all got together.

They told the government, we want somebody who's going to raise their hand, who's going to respond when the bell rings, who wants upward mobility in companies.

And that became the American dream because they sold it to us and we believed in it and we went to work every single day believing that we as a result would get things like a pension or a retirement plan would set us on the rest of our life.

But that isn't true anymore.

Well, I think the Internet changed that.

And I think people didn't become adapt, didn't get adapted fast enough, partly because they were waiting there to be told what to do.

And I think when you're waiting to be told what to do and they told you to do something and didn't work, then you blame the person that told you what to do.

Yeah, right.

Because you're like, well, you told me to do this.

You said this would happen.

Well, yeah, it didn't happen.

Sorry.

Well, that's the type of personality I have.

It's like I want to be told what to do.

Well, if you're that kind of person, you're generally always going to be behind because you're waiting for someone else to get to the pot of gold and then tell you what to do to get there.

So it's just not going to work.

So I didn't realize when I first started following you for cars a long, long time ago that you had written at the time, I think it was two books now three.

I've written 12.

Have you written 12?

Yeah, 12.

So the third circle theory, which is my most famous book, is actually book number nine or ten.

Why the hell have you written 12 books?

Well, because I didn't know.

So I've never went to school.

So like I went to high school but like, I never went to college and I sucked at like writing.

I never read a book in my life, which is the other context of.

So not having read any books meant that I didn't have a context of how books were written.

Right.

So for a really long time, especially when I started my, my first online company, Secret Entourage, I used to write books on finance.

And I was like, I know a lot about like finance and creative financing.

So I'm going to talk about like wealth management, I'm going to talk about banking management, I'm going to talk about just regular savings management and things that were different than what the Dave Ramsey's or Sus Orman's were talking about, but in a more conventional setting, like black and white type books.

And so I would write, I wrote a book called Broken Another Level, which was basically the idea of how credit makes you feel rich, but you're still broke.

You know, Like, I wrote a book called Stay Poor how like the poverty mindset can actually help you, like, succeed in life by actually.

Yeah, exactly.

By like feeling poor by, by making decisions that basically allow you to park money.

And it wasn't until, like I'd written all these little finance books that I kind of realized, like, I was like, these are all my learnings from what other people have taught me or what I've observed other people doing.

They weren't really proprietary.

It wasn't like written from a place of authenticity.

Until I kind of started looking at their circle theory because I was like, I started kind of looking back and saying what made me different from all these other people.

Like, what makes me always keep like, looking for the other way or like the better way?

Constantly, like driving.

Like, I was in banking, I became like the number one banker.

I was in, like, I was in management.

I like exceeded at every step, you know, Like, I was number one banker.

Like, I created an idea called the Airport Banking when people were like, stupid.

So, like, why am I always, like, overachieving and everything?

Even though I'm not really, like working so many crazy hours, I'm like, I'm not like a workaholic, but I was like, at the time I was like, I'm just winning all the time.

And I'm like, what makes me different?

Like, why do I look at other people and they don't win?

So I started realizing that, like, I have just a Heightened sense of self awareness.

And I was like, it's not really like science, it's just there's a way I got here.

So it was like, why do you.

Think you have that?

What is it that's different for you?

I think that I don't have an illusion of who I am in the world.

And that's I think the bigger piece.

Like, like people can't separate themselves from society and themselves from life.

And I think one thing that that happens is like I'm not blind to my own weaknesses and I'm not blind to my own strengths.

So like when I every, no matter what I faced, I would always know my handicap ahead of time.

So like when I got in banking and I was an 18 year old getting into banking, which was like crazy, I didn't have a degree, you know, I went in knowing I was an underdog.

So it wasn't the ego thing.

Like I got a bank manager job, you know, and I'm like a big shot.

And I was the opposite.

I was like, I'm like, I know nothing about banking.

Like these people are out of their minds for giving me money to do this.

But you had something that somebody wanted to hire.

Yes.

Somebody else could see.

Yeah, but this is the thing.

No, I knew I had something and that's the difference.

I knew I was a great sales guy, but going into it, I knew I lacked everything I needed to be a great banker.

So people would say, well, I got the job, so I deserve the job.

To me, it was the exact opposite.

I was like, I convinced one person to like give me a shot at this job.

So now I have to prove all the other people that were against that decision that, that it was worth it.

So I don't dishonor that one guy that took a shot.

So like to me, like to have that level of thought process is just really important at every stage game.

Regardless that I was 18, I still do that today.

I'm not like blind to reality.

You know, I'm like, like my, my personality on YouTube is very polarizing.

It's very opposite of what people do.

I like it though.

Right.

And real wealthy people like it because they're like, there's real knowledge and that's what I care about.

You challenge a conventional norm and.

Exactly.

A conventional norm that has really hurt more people than help more people.

Yes, but that's not how.

Remember there's 99% of populations is 1% that make it so.

So to create that and to basically create the opposite to make people feel Uncomfortable for the majority of the people, like listening instead of making them feel good.

Like, going into that, I knew I wasn't going to be for everyone.

And I knew that journey was going to be 10 years to do what I could have done line in one, you know, like, pretending to be and be like, what do I have to do to get more viral, more exciting?

And I was like, I don't care because I'm not really interested in, like, fame.

I'm interested in being able to do what I love doing for 30 years.

So I was like, how do I, like, guarantee that I do that for 30 years instead of worry about what does the world want me to do now?

And what about in 5 years, 10 years, 15 years?

A message you have resoundingly in your three books I read.

You.

You talk about chasing passion constantly.

And that's such like a, it's, it's a weird thing.

Nobody tells their kids to go do whatever it is you're passionate about, go chase that.

And it's such a simple message.

And the irony is, is that that's is as much bravado as you might come off, and you might come off polarizing.

Telling people to chase their dreams is not a bad thing.

So it's not a bad thing as long as they have context that their dreams don't always pay the bills.

No.

So those are two podcasts, right?

So.

So those are two different things again, but this is what I mean when I say you talk about, like, the reality of a situation.

Like, I wanted to, I've always wanted to work with, like, consciousness.

My passion for teaching around, you know, human consciousness, awareness, self awareness, all the framework of my books have always been what I'm most passionate about.

So if I, if you told me there's this guy in front of me, let's coach about where you are in the spectrum of, of self awareness, awareness and consciousness.

I would tell you I can talk about that for like four, six hours nonstop.

I don't care.

But reality is, that isn't what is going to get me paid to live the lifestyle I really want.

Yet the key is that I may have to do 100 other things to bridge myself to get to a point where I've earned my right to have that conversation in public continuously.

So the difference with me writing these books, starting in 2013, when I published First Third Circle Theory, was that I understood that that journey could take 20 to 30 years before it catches up to the mass markets.

And I understood that the lifestyle I wanted wasn't going to wait 20 to 30 years to be able to have the cars I want, have the house I want, live the way I want, not take shit from anybody.

So was like, I got to figure out how to make a shit ton of money.

And that doesn't have to be directly linked to my passion.

But it also doesn't mean that I can abandon my passion today because it doesn't do that.

And the more I make money, the more it fuels that.

So let me just figure out that society and money making needs to be figured out now.

While my passion can not take a back burner, but can be part of that process, Even if it's 1% a year, it's better than no percent.

Working towards that so that eventually the transition can happen in a very effective manner.

And not for the world, but for myself.

And that's the key.

Like consciousness is single player sport, I would say.

So it's always about your capacity to engage in the experience you want to have 20, 30 years from now.

And the intent you create today to be able to go through that.

Because the biggest gift we have is, is being able to wake up sharing our talent, what we're here to do with everyone else.

And even though it's impacting people, it's the experience we're creating for ourselves, doing it that really matters the most.

So I have to ask the question because I'm a car guy.

You're a car guy.

When you were growing up, eventually at some point you got that Lamborghini and a lot of other nice cars.

Very early too.

Yeah.

20 years old.

Yeah.

When you got it, did it motivate you for more?

Did it make the hunger even hungrier?

Or did you feel complacent at some point in time?

Like I got here, at what point did you hit an inflection point where you started to look in the mirror and go, okay, I can do this.

So curiosity was, what happened?

When I got my car, I got my first exotic.

I had.

I've always had nice cars because I worked since 14 and like I was working as an immigrant without a green card.

But I still was making bank.

Between 14 and 16, I had accumulated like a 50k a year job.

So at 16, I was doing sales for a remodeling company, like roof siding, windows and stuff.

And I was the number one salesperson.

So by 18, I was the director of the company, making 80k a year.

And this is back again.

This is like the year 2000, you know, we're not talking about like now, where you're basically A broke ass for making.

So back then I was doing that, which was really good money, you know, and like, I was already supporting my family and I was already putting money aside.

And I had nice cars, like an Evo, a Mercedes, you know, like these little cars.

And at the time is like 20, 30 grand cars, which were a big deal.

Yeah.

And so as I kind of progressed and I got my first banking job, I got in some really bad car problems by like getting in a serious, like two to three serious bad accidents in a row.

And I had kind of given up on these like fast cars.

So I started buying luxury cars.

Not on my dream.

Just like, it was like, my insurance is killing me now.

A total luxury.

You don't want to die.

Of course.

It was like, let me just buy like luxury cars.

And then from first, exotic.

When I kind of recovered from that, which was right about when I was like 18 and a half, 19 years old, I bought myself a 911 Turbo.

And that was my dream car.

That's what I wanted, and that's what I bought myself.

That's.

That's all I wanted to own.

When I bought that for myself.

The goal at that point was I started hanging out with people that had Lamborghinis, Ferraris, because, you know, 911 turbos.

Yeah, it was respectful car.

You know, it's like 200k car at the time.

It's depreciated 100k.

So I was like, hey, I'm gonna drive around and meet people.

And when I started meeting guys, a lot of successful guys had Lamborghini.

So it was like, I didn't really care for a Lamborghini, but I was like, you know what?

Everybody keeps running to those people every time we're a car me and they're like, oh my God, like, look at that car guy's car.

And I was like, to me, owning a Lamborghini wasn't even about the speed or like, because the turbo was faster.

My car was modern and stuff.

It was the one thing I was like, I want to know what it feels like to be that guy.

I look at that guy and I'm like, everybody wants to be friends with that guy.

And nobody knows who he is, what he is, just because of his car.

Don't want to kiss his ass.

So I was like, I want to know what it feels like to be that guy.

So I bought a Lamborghini just for that.

Like, there would be like, hey, I want to be like.

So I got it rid of my 911 Turbo.

I bought that and when I bought the car, like, I bought it right the way about the turbo.

But when I sold my 911 Turbo, something really incredible happened.

That was the first car I had driven in, like, more than any other car.

I kept it two years, and in those two years, I literally lost like, five grand.

Yeah.

And all my other cars, I lost like 20 grand in like three months.

And I was like, this doesn't make any sense.

Like, why did I drive this car so long, put so many miles, spend so much time with it, use it so much and appreciate.

So when I bought my Lamborghini, I use the same strategy again to buy it.

And this time I made money.

I made like 13 grand on my Lambo.

And I was like, okay, like, something doesn't add up here.

Like, what am I not catching?

And like, like, why am I losing money on these cheaper cars that are cheaper technically in nature and chee cost less to maintain.

But, like, I'm buying a much more expensive car now and like, everyone's trying to buy it from me for like, more money than I paid.

So I was like, I don't get it.

So I kind of drove that.

And then from that same feeling that from the Lamborghini, when someone offered me more money, I was like, yeah, take the car.

Like, fine, I made money doing this.

I was like, I don't want to lose money on the car, so I'll take it.

And then I was like, I wonder what it's like to own a Ferrari.

So I bought a Ferrari and an Aston.

And I was like, I want to know that experience from firsthand.

And that's why I just kept going through cars at the beginning and because I didn't assume that I liked something without experiencing it.

And I think that's one of the big again, like the self awareness coming into the game, which is like, instead of saying I want a Lamborghini because that's the car to own, or like, it's the greatest car and I'm investigate how fast it goes, like, how cool it is.

I was like, I wonder what it's like.

And when I found out what it's like, I gravitated back, you know, after Ferrari, after Aston Martin, back towards Lamborghini again.

I was like, I like that brand.

I like like what it does.

I like the feeling of driving it.

And so between that Aston and Porsche, they became my kind of like three personal favorites, you know, And I kind of kept going through and based on the money I had at the time, I would either upgrade or Downgrade to like two cars, one car, three cars, you know, and so on and so forth.

As a working guy, that's what you do.

You know, you're like looking at your car payment structures and you're like, what can I afford?

And you kind of grow from there.

So I know that for a lot of people listening to the show, the ideology of being able to buy an exotic car, drive it, make money on it, and have it appreciate value and actually use it as an investment sounds crazy.

But the fact of the matter is, is people are doing it and it's happening every day.

Every single day.

And that's.

So we were talking before the, before we started recording.

A good friend of mine, Adam Schaefer, from My Pumpkin.

He took your course?

Didn't tell me a course.

He just shows up with a 4:30 one day and I'm like, wait a minute.

Beautiful spec car.

He, he then got an 812.

I think he bought it from, from Hunter Exotics, which is Exetics Hunter.

Yeah, yeah.

One of the partners at Exotic Car X, meaning he's the partner dealer that helps with all the, facilitating all the deals.

So he super proud of it.

He wasn't planning on buying.

An opportunity came up and he was talking about the spec and everything else.

So he wanted me to ask you in particular.

Yeah.

If you had to pick an order of priority of price, model, miles and spec, what would your order of priority be?

In order of priority, price would be the lowest.

Okay.

The lowest.

It's never about price.

Anytime you buy anything based on price, you're buying the wrong value.

That's always the case.

Doesn't matter it's a house, a car, or anything else.

It's very subjective because spec and model play significant, like role together.

If you, if you buy a really high end model and a low spec, you're killing yourself.

And if you buy a really high spec of a low end model, you're killing yourself.

So there's not, it's not really like a question of like, which one is most important.

It's more that like depending on which you pick, then the next thing becomes most important.

So there, like, as an example, if you buy like Ferrari, Portofino or California Tea because you're gay, like, generally, like you buy these cars.

Sorry.

But if you buy those cars, typically, like, you have to buy them in a budget fashion.

So price plays a significant role because the next buyer is price conscious.

So if you bought like a California T at a huge high dollar because it's like the craziest one off spec car.

Like, no one cares for that car.

You're losing cost conscious buyer.

I mean, you're going to lose 50 to 60 grand on a car and get killed.

But if you look at that and say, because I'm buying a cost conscious Ferrari, that's like depreciated and that's what people want.

They want a cheaper version of an entry level Ferrari, then price plays a big role in that purchase for that car.

But if you're buying like an 812 now, you're buying the higher spectrum of the brand.

So you're like, yeah, I'm buying the more expensive Ferraris.

These are people who typically have enough money to have choice.

So they're not on a budget.

They're like, what do I like better?

Do I like to say 12 and Aventador?

Like once you're buying a 500, 400k car, you don't have a 30k problem in options.

You know, you're not like, well, you're just like, I really wanted a blue car.

Well, I hope this one's blue because that's what I really want, you know, and, and the 30k disappears in that motion of like in your thought process of purchasing.

So in a higher end setting, spec plays a significantly higher role.

You know, like, and same with Porsches.

You see the same Porsche for a different color go for 150k more than the other Porsche.

Oh, big time.

Right.

And here's the crazy part.

The 150k more car sells in 10 seconds.

And the, you know, the car that's like the lower end car, that's like just as good, but it's like a different shade of blue that like a lot of people would buy because the price grade that sits on the market for like six months and eventually it sells for decent money, but doesn't sell as fast.

So one of the things you realize is that exotic cars from back in the day are very different than exotic cars today.

And this is one of the reasons why, like back then I was talking about this in finance.

I'm like, finance is very progressive because things change in the world and customer behavior changes towards things.

The right environment, consumers.

Yes.

Customers acceptance.

Like, like maybe you'd say back in the 90s, 4,000 square feet was a lot of space for a house.

And you would say, today 10,000 square feet is a new money space.

You know, so like you, and you look at that and you go, if that's changing, then the financial tools around that are changing.

The jumbos, the cost Basis, like where people live because of the space, size and everything.

And you can kind of predict based on that behavior, like how things are going to turn out.

As an example, back when I started playing with exotics, nobody would finance exotics.

They were like, are you out of your mind?

Like, you know, like, why would I want to finance a $200,000 car if as a bank, this is crazy.

You know, we'll finance like 50% of that.

But that's not sustainable.

Meaning, like that's not in an industry that's growing.

At the phase he was growing, I was like, that's not sustainable for a bank not to make money by just not participating because they're afraid.

So I said, as the industry expands, then obviously they're going to be like, oh, you know, I get it.

Like this, is this on the good.

If you went on a drop down on autotrader, you couldn't even find Ferrari at the beginning because they were like, nobody's selling Ferrari.

It wasn't even one on sale in there.

So he's like, you have to go to back end channels like specialty magazines to find them.

So as the industry was changing and shifting, I knew for a fact that the supporting mechanisms of those industries would have to grow with it.

So doing that meant that more people would buy exotics, but it also meant that more manufacturers would make exotics.

And if you look back in the year 2000, yeah, you had like, each manufacturer had like two cars.

Like you had a Ferrari 360 and a 575.

You know, you didn't really have like 14 models of the car.

You didn't have an entry Ferrari all the way up to a million.

And you also knew back then that like, okay, a Lamborghini Diablo, people are like, oh, it's terrible, it's always broken.

And I was like, yes, but it's like the third car they ever made.

So like, give them like time, right?

Like as a manufacturer, they're still selling them even though they're broken and they're not working.

And then they introduced a Gallardo with the whole Audi concept and it's suddenly a reliable car.

And people are like, people were daily driving them for.

Right.

And what in the problem was that people would still say, it's a Lambo, it's breaking down.

And I was like, no, it's not, it's not a Diablo.

Like, I understand like what you're thinking because your grandpa once read a magazine that told him that that guy lost, you know, his money.

But I was like, just these Mechanisms like, and this is where people got this, if you can't afford an exotic cash, you shouldn't buy it.

Because back then they weren't even like allowing financing.

And banks finally caught on too.

They realized that these are ultra high net worth buyers.

They're not only better buyers, but the cars don't appreciate as much.

So this is one of the things like banks realize that too now.

So you can lose a Honda Accord and it can be taken away and people can can't find it.

It gets lost in a sea of Honda Accords.

You can't lose a Ferrari or Lamborghini.

No, not only you have better buyers, you have more responsible buyers generally.

Even if you take their scam artists, there's people that are doing this, they're not getting financed by banks anyways.

They're getting financed by like lease companies that are fake rental companies hidden as lease companies.

But the reality is that there is such an amount of knowledge today about an industry that was in its infancy stages in the 2000s and is now, you know, in the 2020 era, has become so mainstream and real that what I was getting to, the point I was getting to is that the industry then too in the exclusivity sector was very different.

If you own the Ferrari, it was an exclusive.

Right.

In 2000, today, if you own a Ferrari, you're one of a lot of people.

So it's not that exclusive.

This is where spec comes in.

This is what you were asking about, spec, price and everything.

Yeah, owning a Ferrari is not exclusive anymore.

Owning a specialty Ferrari is exclusive now.

Owning a specialty Ferrari in a specific color is the most exclusive.

The richest people in the 2000s, they're not buying California tees.

They're now buying the rarest pistas, you know, SF90X extra dollars.

They're buying the SVGs, the crazy hypercars.

Like those guys that were buying like me, like 2000 in the 2000s, were buying 100k cars.

They're buying $3 million cars today.

Yeah.

So that evolution, right?

So that's what it is.

But the Same guys in 2000s that were buying like Lamborghinis then, they were driving Honda Civics like back at the beginning, you know, when they were really young.

So this evolution is the same crew, you know, that just kind of keeps pushing the industry forward.

And the amount of money injecting it has their friends and family coming in too, like, oh, I want one.

You're doing it.

It's great.

It seems attainable.

When your friend drives a Ferrari, you realize that it's not impossible because it.

Triggers your curiosity, because you know your friend, and if your friend knows something you don't, you're willing to ask him.

Yeah, Like, Adam, first question I asked, I'm like, bro, what's going on?

Yeah.

Like, I don't understand, like, why all of a sudden.

And we had conversations, and now what do we do?

Is we were online constantly looking at cars that the other one can buy, sending them back and forth, and it's not.

It's no longer unattainable.

Right.

And when you realize that, it loses luster.

Because when you see a Ferrari down the road, usually, like, oh, that guy's, like, made it.

But I always say, like, sometimes a Range Rover driver is driving a car much more expensive than the lamb on the road.

This is true, particularly in areas like Los Angeles.

Right.

But you're not going to the Range Rover guy.

Like, dude, I want your life lessons on how to be successful in life.

But you see a Ferrari, you're like, dude, what'd you do for a living?

Like, how'd you get this?

So.

So, Pageman, I got a question for you.

You spent a lot of the last decade, I'm sure, teaching a lot of people a lot.

Yeah.

Are there.

Are there some recurring themes that you see come across when you first start to meet somebody and they.

They're asking you questions.

Recurring theme.

And what standard.

Like, if them not knowing what to do or what's keeping them from obtaining their goals?

So there's two major setbacks people go through from a.

Buying their first exotic.

We'll use the exotic as it means.

But it's a larger picture of basically, like, kind of being afraid of being seen as wealthies.

One of the big issues.

People, like, are afraid of what people think of them or, like, I've had a lot of guys that are like, I'm just.

I don't know how people will respond to a red Ferrari.

And I'm like, why does that matter?

It's imposter syndrome.

Yeah, well, it's this, like, fear of, like, what if they think I'm, like, super rich or something?

They, like, hit me up for money.

I'm like, what does it matter?

But it doesn't.

Like.

But.

But again, these are, like, limitations they create in their own heads.

Always, like, fear of failure.

Like, what if it doesn't work?

Okay, then what happened?

You start again, figure something else out.

You know, who cares?

But in their heads, like, that's.

That's a big thing.

That's why I don't Know why it's so common.

But it's, like, super common.

You know, society tells you you can't.

Right.

But I'm saying they retain that and they live that way.

You know, grew up their whole life like that.

Right?

Yeah.

And the other limitation, which is really, like, they don't really.

They want an exotic, but they really don't.

So this is the other thing that's, like, really bizarre for people.

Yeah, I know.

It's really weird.

It's this paradox thing going on for them where they're like, I really want a Ferrari, but I'm afraid of what comes with a Ferrari in a couple of ways.

They're afraid of, like, maintenance that's imaginary.

Which, like, in their head is, like, there.

Even though I teach them, I'm like, you don't have to worry about that schedule.

Right.

But they're afraid of, like, all of it.

They're afraid of, like, what if.

So they'll do this.

They'll be like, I want to buy 150k car, but I don't want it to cost, not even a penny.

And I'm like, okay, I get that I'm teaching you how to drive a car for free, but, like, the lifestyle of owning a Ferrari will enhance your expenditure generally.

So they're approaching it from the wrong lens of, like, I want it to be cheaper than my Lexus.

And I'm like, you don't really want a Ferrari then, like.

Because, like, that's not the idea.

The idea is not just drive Alexis.

Right.

But, yeah, but you see, they don't think of it that way.

Like, and partially I'm to blame for this because the marketing is really focused around, like, you can drive a Ferrari for less than Lexus, but in their head, they don't understand, like, that people don't.

Like, you don't know what you don't know.

So not being in an environment where you realize how much your life is limited because you don't have a Ferrari or a Lamborghini, well, you don't realize what you're missing out on.

So.

So you live in your bubble.

Yeah.

Once you get your first one, you interact with people, you have new friends, you go places.

It pushes you to be better.

It pushes you to get in better shape because people are looking at you.

It pushes you to get better at talking to people because people want to network with you.

Like, the change it creates internally is the one you don't expect.

And some people are very afraid of that.

And indirectly, they just create all kinds of reasons why they shouldn't try because it's going to lead them to force them to becoming a new person.

And I get that.

It's really sad though.

Like, it's really sad because it's like, you know, everything you want.

Is that the other side of trying something, even if it hurts a little bit, that this failure.

Failure will oftentimes prevent people from even to trying.

Trying.

Yeah.

But the discomfort of it, even though the system is proven it works, just makes people like really afraid of like getting in.

Those are the two really common denominators that prevent people from really finding success.

Do you find that people, I mean, look, if, if I didn't know people that had taken your program and had really driving exotics today, I would probably look at and be like, I don't know if I can trust this guy.

Do you find that people are often hesitant because they don't understand?

I also know what I've seen the finances of a lot of wealthy people over time.

I know they buy and sell cars for literally the same price.

They buy it, if not more over time.

Yeah.

And I know a couple of guys who are in the market who literally buy unique spec cars just so they can make money on it when they ultimately decide to sell it, even if it's not in their intention right away.

100%.

Yeah.

That's what I do.

I mean, I buy cars even though I don't want to sell them in a manner that guarantees the money's parked there.

Oh yeah.

And that when I want to get rid of it, there's a return.

Now like that GTR you just picked up.

Yeah, but that's no, that's a strict return.

So only bought that because I time markets and I know what's coming and I'm like, I'm making 100 grand doing nothing.

You know, like that's, that's a car where I'm like, I'm just going to make money.

So I'll just buy it, put it away.

I have like 30 other cars.

I don't have to drive that car.

You know, like, you'll just sit there.

It's good looking, it's good for marketing.

I'll get rid of it to make a point.

They can make money off the car.

But the main thing is there are also cars that as a car lover, I buy because I want to own, but I buy, inspect them in a manner that guarantees that when I don't want them anymore, it's good and I'm gonna like make one.

Like for example, like I, I bought an A12 GTS knowing that I didn't, I wasn't gonna love it forever.

So I'm like, hey, this isn't a special car.

It's a cool car, but it's not a special car.

So let me spec something really special.

So when it's time to sell, no matter the market goes up or down, production's out, someone's gonna want that specific unit, you know, like, and I'll get bored of it, I want something else.

But I know this going into it because, like, you get to know yourself and you get to be honest with, like.

Like, you don't really keep cars, that even if you collect, like, you get bored of cars and you're like, I don't drive that one.

Or it's not exciting anymore, there's better product and you just kind of like go to next direction.

So knowing that, like, if you knew you were going to get divorced going into marriage, like, if you knew that right, right away, you'd want to protect.

Your assets because you're like every decision you made.

Exactly.

So.

So I would, I would tell people, like, think about it the same way as a marriage, you intend to make the best of it and your intention is to make it amazing.

But if for any reason it doesn't work out because the car breaks down a lot, it's the wrong car, something happened, then you're not.

Yeah, right.

So, like, think about it that way.

But if it works out and great, then who cares?

You still have a beautiful car, you.

Got a beautiful spec, and you just drive it as long as you want it.

Exactly.

But it's not just cars.

You also have the Watch Trading academy.

Yes.

Because this all goes hand to hand.

It does go hand in hand.

So I wanted to ask more about that because I.

First of all, I love watches.

Don't judge me because I'm wearing an.

Apple watch, but I'm judging you for that.

If you drive a Tesla and wear an Apple watch, that's the prerequisite.

But my wife does drive a Tesla.

So you see, I'm telling you, it's in the family.

Soon enough you're going to take it and be like, I know it's fast.

It'S an approximation, but it's my reality.

But I've always loved watch, particularly vintage watches, the same way with cars.

But so did you.

What came first?

Obviously the car sounds like it came first.

Cars have always been a personal passion.

So it was.

And I never really owned a nice watch when I was like 18 and my dad gave Me, a nice watch.

I never seen my dad, so he sent a nice watch when I was like, 14 to my mom is like, hey, I'm still alive.

Whatever.

I was like, I don't know who that is, but I was like, I'll take your and I'll wear it.

Great.

And had a nice wash.

But I didn't really understand the value of it.

But it made me feel different when I wore it, you know, because I was in high school.

Like, a nice watch.

And I was like, oh, this is a cool thing.

Like, it's different.

And then when I turned, like when I.

When I bought my first Porsche, a lot of my friends had nice watches.

So, like, now meeting new people, you know, they're in the community, right?

And they all had, like, this.

This watch brand called Panerai.

And it was really nice.

And I.

And I really like, like, the design.

And I was like, you know what?

I want a Panerai.

And it was like a $3,000, like, at the time was a big deal.

Like, $3,000 watch for a watch.

I was like, okay, okay, like, let me go and, like, buy one.

So I do all my research online, you know, and I.

And I actually buy my first Panerai, and I'm like, okay, this is cool.

And, like, I like it and I'm wearing it.

And the guy I buy it from is in my Porsche club because he sells, like, watches.

That's his job.

He's like a jeweler.

And I'm like, this guy also has the same Porsche I have, and he just bought a Lamborghini.

So like, when I bought the watch, I was like, hey, like, what do you do?

Like, this is your hobby?

Or like.

He's like, no, I saw watches full time.

And I'm like, you make that much money selling watches that you have not only the same Porsche, but you also just bought a Lamborghini, and your house is epic.

And I'm like, now I'm curious.

I'm like, there's that much money in watches.

So instead of being like, let me ask you everything in life about watches and I can rob you of all your knowledge and then, like, be your competition, I was like, I'm your customer.

I just bought something.

I'm going to go and try to sell it.

So I understand, like, if I bought it right or wrong and, like, based on what I can sell it for.

So I was like, I was a salesman.

I was like, I can sell shit.

So I was like, I'm going to sell it.

So I went online and Like, I sold the watch I bought after a year, and I was like, it's great.

I made money.

And I was like, imagine how much I would make if I would learn to buy it like he did, because obviously he made money when he sold it to me, and I made money when I sold it.

So he gave me a good deal because it was in the same club.

But, like, there's got to be a better way to buy this so I can make even more money.

But when I realized that that was a.

I was a banker, so I was like, 20% return, and I didn't even have to hold it a year.

I just chose to.

So it was like, no wonder this guy's rich.

I was like, the math, really maths, you know?

Yeah.

Scale of economy.

Yeah, it was like, really one.

You get 20%, you buy several.

And all my friends were buying watches from him, so I'm like, obviously he's just in the groups talking about watches, and people are, like, all excited.

So I started studying, like, where.

Because when I went to sell my watch, I saw where people were listing their watches and everything, and I was like, wow, it's amazing, like, how big of a community this is.

And this was back in the early 2000.

So I was like, you know what?

Okay.

Like, watches are starting to become popular on the secondary market.

Like, I understand what they are.

So I said, you know what?

I'm gonna start, like, buying and selling watches.

So I started doing it for, like, six watches instead of one watch like that I had in a box, and I would swap and go on Craigslist, buy, sell, you know, offer whatever I could find, and I would just start trading watches.

Then I realized that I was making almost the same as my banking job, you know, salary while I was trading watches.

You're still working at the banking job?

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Like, trading watches as a collector, not even, like, as a business.

And then when I kind of went into that business of cars, watches, and everything else, when I got fired from banking, like, that's why watches became such a fake.

Dude, I got.

I got canned.

I got killed.

Yeah.

Why?

I was an.

I used to.

Like, dude, I used to drive.

I used to drive a Lamborghini, like, in parking handicap spots.

Like, I would make my superiors really uncomfortable because they were like, dude, like, you can't just.

Like.

Just like, you're flashing and you were.

Fitting any conventional norms?

No, but you know.

You know what happened when I got fired the first time for banking?

I got really upset because I.

I had given that Company everything, like in a way was like, I was, it was my first real like corporate like legit job, you know, that was like, like I had given like, I was like really paying attention.

I was.

It makes you question your self worth even though it should only make you question your network.

Yeah, like the, it was the corporate.

Like I had saved a ton of money, so I was okay financially.

I had, I was making a ton of money.

So it wasn't like struggling to like.

Oh my God.

Yeah, exactly.

Like I had all these opportunities going for me.

But the one thing that was like really a big thing is I lost my identity when they fired me because I was like, I thought I would be a banker forever.

Yeah, I thought it was people.

Even Today you'll see 40, 50 year olds who they self identify as their job.

You go, hey, exactly.

Like something about yourself.

They're like, oh, I'm a banker.

They hide behind their business card, you know.

And like the thing was, to me, it was the same thing.

I was like, I wasn't even about the business card.

I was about that company.

Like I like legit believed in that company.

So like when I got canned and which was my own doing indirectly because I threw my badge and I thought they would call me the next day because I was like top performer.

They never called me.

So myself out of it.

I could have at least gotten a severance or something, you know, I got fired because I, I basically told them that I didn't want to answer their questions.

And I was like, take my badge.

And then I was like, oh, the, the CEO's gonna call me tomorrow.

Because like, you don't lose your best executive.

Gotcha.

They're called me.

They just called me to tell me to cough and I was done.

But when, when I lost that, it took me a year to really like understand what like I wanted to do.

And I realized how insignificant I was in the world because I had put so much weight on this idea that I was a banker.

And I was like.

And I was like, in my head I was like, I'm not like a banker.

I'm an executive banker at this bank.

And like you just took that from me.

And then I realized I was like, no you didn't.

It took me a year to realize this.

But I was like, you didn't take away my skill or the fact that I'm a big banker.

You took away my title and who I can do it for.

So.

So then I said, so then I realized, I say, you know what?

Fuck you.

I'm a banker for me.

So I started my first bank on my own for cars, watches.

All right.

Like, very, very early.

Like, this was fucking 2007.

I started this company that was basically like, hey, I'm going to buy cars, watches and art, and I'm going to put other people's money in it, and I'm going to make market predictions and basically, like, play cars and watches like stocks and basically, like, buy, sell, but with other people's money.

So we got like four people together to buy Bugatti, you know, and like, basically, like, it wasn't my money, but I was like, I knew where to get the car, I knew how to buy, I knew how to sell it.

So I started transacting in that.

And I was like, I'm still a Bugatti.

Yeah, I'm still.

I'm still a banker.

Yeah.

You know, but I was in my cars, like, so.

And the one thing I'm really big on I was differentiate for people.

Because I know, like, there's this huge thing, like, there's car dealers that own like 100 cars in their lot, and they'll be like, I own 100 cars.

I'm like, no, you're a car dealer with 100 cars.

You don't own 100 cars.

Yeah, they're owned by the bank.

They're owned by.

By your business.

That's fine.

But that's money needed to make money.

Like, that's why I'm like always telling people.

I'm like, today when I tell people I have like 30 car collection, or it goes up to 40 sometimes comes down.

I tell people, these are personal registered cars.

These are not like a dealerships cars.

These are not like floor plan cars.

These are not like, oh, I think.

Differentiate you, by the way.

Well, that's a lot of big difference.

Huge difference.

I know people who have big car collections.

They're all under a dealer tag or they're like, yeah, correct.

Yeah.

And to me, that's always been a pet peeve.

No, I'm telling you.

And that's why I'm really big on that.

That's why even as I tell my story, I tell people.

I'm like, in the 2000s, when I had these cars, like, not my own one or two personal cars, but when I was buying Bugatti, when I was buying like, Salina Sevens and like, really exciting, I never put it anywhere, not on social media, not on anything, because it wasn't my shit.

I was like, this is business money.

Like, I'm here to make money.

I'M not here to pretend to be richer than I am.

I don't give a shit.

I was like, I want these cars to make.

I want these people to make money so they give me more money.

So I keep going.

So I use my banking skills, combined it with alternative assets like cars, watches, handbags, anything a good so alternative anymore either since 2020.

Well, so I predicted that too.

Like, I knew that Covid would be the trigger point for the entire mainstream.

Of alternative was because there was clearly a pop in buyers during that time.

So.

So they were so a lot of dealers pre Covid right before, like there was that January to March where there was a lot of uncertainty about Europe had closed.

They were like, the country might close.

There's this pandemic.

We don't know what it is.

People are dying and I'm still buying cars.

I don't give a shit.

I'm doing my thing, you know, for myself.

I'm like, oh, this is a good deal here and I can buy.

And all my dealer friends are like, are you out of your mind?

Like, why are you buying cars?

Like, no one's going to buy cars.

Everything's going to be on discount and dude, wait till like the country is going to potentially close and everything's going to be free and cheap.

And I was like, yeah, I'm just going to buy cars now.

They're like, no, no, you should do that.

The one thing they didn't pay attention to then, which they're now very much paying attention to now, is they didn't realize that supply chain held a lot of weight in the equation.

And supply chain had already been shut down for months in Europe.

And so what they hadn't encountered, even though in their head they were like, everything's going to be on discount, in my head I was like, there ain't going to be anything there for you to buy.

Like, I get like the idea of the.

This supply shrinks, demand stays even the same.

You still have a higher price product.

Exactly.

So the part they were paying attention to demand, that was going to crash right after Covid because everybody was going to be afraid and they didn't know what's going on, but they weren't paying attention to supply.

So I was looking at the supply chain and it was like, coming in, you got a whole bunch of people stuck at home.

What are you going to buy?

You buy cars.

So I was like, the one thing I know is that people jump on markets when they think it's easy money.

Like, like think about like a Mortgage market and you know, like pre, pre bubble, right.

Like strippers were mortgage workers.

Like you're meaning, like that's the real estate agents.

Everybody was like your cousin in the cab game, you know, give you a mortgage application.

Right.

Because it's easy money.

So it brought a lot of attention to how mortgages worked, what they are, because streamlined people day to day.

People that shouldn't play in that game suddenly needed to get educated to make money in that game.

And they all did.

Exactly.

They did.

Until they did.

Right.

And then the readjustment happened and they all lost a lot of money and.

They all came more realtors falling out of business now ever before.

Exactly.

So that was the same thing that I was happening in watches.

I was like, watchers are gaining value, they're gaining popularity.

And I was like, when they pop, you're going to have mainstream media start to play into watches.

And I knew this was happening.

I had started Watch Trading Academy and we were teaching this since 2009, you know.

Yeah, exactly.

A lot of people think I've like, they've seen my stuff since like 2018, 2019.

I've been around, I've been teaching online since 2007.

Then 2009 was when we started launching courses.

2011, when we started launching book course deals, et cetera.

And in 2015, these became platforms, from these smaller courses into giant platforms.

So it's been going on for a while.

I mean, you've got a big group of people.

I know, but people think that this is built like when they see me on like showing them an ad, they're like, what's this like today scam?

And I'm like, I've been around for like a long time talking about this same shit, doing the same shit and like teaching the same.

And today we have a lot of people making a lot of money.

But we knew after 2020 that like when that happened and the public saw the price jump, they would be all in.

I can just go to my Rolex guy and get a watch and make some money.

It's like, yeah, it was the whole mortgage thing all over again in the.

It was only that simple, though.

There's an education that goes with that.

Well, so it was simple in 2020.

Because it was very simple in 2020.

And that's where mainstream media started playing.

And that's where we knew values would start to skyrocket.

There's all those reports of Rolex dealerships and authorized dealers not having supply.

People started freaking out.

And then what happened happens is like, oh, There's a weightlift, you gotta get the weightless.

All of these things became, they were always there, but they became more about every watch instead of just a few.

Watches and every brand.

Exactly.

So even brands that you never looked at suddenly became worth more money.

And again, mainstream started playing.

So we were equipped to take advantage of that.

We had been doing it for a while.

Our students got really rich, even richer than ever.

I mean my best year, I made like $4 million trading watches as a hobby.

Like literally from doing it part time hobby.

Exactly.

And that was, you know, during those peaks.

And.

But even then I wasn't blind to that's not going to last forever.

And I was like, this is like a phase, you know, it's going to last.

On average, I'll make like 1 1/2 million, 2 million a year trading watches as a, like, as a part time thing, without a store, without mass levels of inventory.

And the way we dictate if you're a good watch trader or not, if you're not a store dealer, is if you can duplicate the money that's out in watches once a year.

So basically if you go in with a million in inventory, you can turn it to an a million in profit.

Wow.

Then that's when you're the most efficient.

Basically, like that's the efficiency ratio of like being a great watch trader.

So whenever people are like, oh, I made like 20 grand this month.

And I'm like, great, well how much money do you have out in watches?

And they're like, oh, 600 grand.

I'm like, yeah, you're an idiot.

Didn't see that coming.

But it's true.

Like there's scales of kind of efficiency.

Do you find that, that a problem is so with my friend, right, Adam, he didn't tell me he took your course until I told him you were coming on the program.

And then he was like, oh yeah, I know him.

I'm like, wait, wait, wait, what, what do you mean you know?

And he's like, well, you know, I took exotic car hacks.

I paid for his course.

Okay, so I'm everyone's favorite secret drug dealer.

That's what I was going to ask.

A couple of reasons.

Do people not want to give away the secret.

When I was starting my, when I was starting to teach exotic car hacks, I had a like semi mentor friend, client named Tim Sykes.

He's really famous.

Penny stock trader.

Timothy Sykes.

Yeah.

Huge following.

Etc.

So he was getting very popular when I started teaching online.

He teaches courses too, right?

Yeah, like Huge, Huge.

Huge.

Like nine figure business.

Like been doing it for a long time.

Very effective.

And he's also not liked very much because he's very polarizing.

Yeah.

And his, you know, he goes after penny stocks.

So they call him the real wolf of Wall street because he actually, you know, follows penny for it.

Yeah, exactly.

Like because he does this, right?

He does pumps and dumps, etc and it works.

The one thing that, that he taught me that like I learned from watching his operation.

He didn't directly like mentor me, but I kind of watched how he operates and how he moves.

I went to him with the idea of exotic car hacks and I said, hey, I'm doing this thing, you know, I'm teaching cars and everything else.

And I said, sell it to your audience because you're teaching all these people to make money in stocks.

So like put me in a coach, you know, like, like help me like get this to people.

And he was like, I can't sell this to people.

And I go, why?

It's like super popular.

People are buying it, you know, like early.

He goes, I tell you what, because if I tell people that I get my exotics this way, then they think I'm poor.

They think I don't have enough money.

So there's this quotation to it.

Get it that like that like if people like there's the effect of exotic car ownerships about baller status, like I'm rich, I'm this.

If people start to discover this affordable aspect of it like which they're going to you like it or not.

Because that's my job market that didn't get it out there.

But if they discovered that it loses the luster you get by telling that.

So if you tell someone you got a Ferrari, they admire you.

If you tell someone they got a Ferrari and it didn't cost you anything for the majority of times, that loses that luster.

So like we knew this was an anti marketing aspect.

Society so messed up.

Yes.

But it's a reality.

Like we know this happens.

So like I understood that early on that I was going to run against that train, that it was like I'm training the entire Internet on how to do this, but only the guys that like get it that are in the know.

But I was like, they're not going to help me promote it even though I'm helping them.

And this would be very.

No, they're going to keep a secret.

Exactly.

They don't want people to know that.

They want people to say like, oh my God, this guy's worth a ton of money.

Look at how much money he's blowing.

They don't realize this is an investment strategy.

Exactly.

So they don't that.

So that was the thing with excited car hacks on the watch side.

Much easier because everybody wants to learn how to make money.

And the more student success we had with holy shit, I made a million dollars trading watches.

Look, my student made 500k.

This other student made 200k.

They're like, crazy, you know, like, how do I get on?

But even watch people don't like me because it had the reverse effect there where when I started teaching watches, dealers hated me because they're like, you're exposing how much crazy money we're making in the world because they don't know we're this rich.

And so it started, like, really pissing off people.

I made a lot of jeweler enemies because they were like, dude, I was making 30k a watch, but because of you, now I'm making 5k because they know how to buy them and they know what to pay for them.

And you're exposing all my margins.

And.

And I'm like, look, that's the way the world works.

Like, autotrader made the buying cars competitive because you could actually see what a car was worth in California when you lived in Ohio and.

Or Indiana, Robin Hood did the trading stocks, right?

But.

But again, people don't like this.

So we started making a lot of enemies in the dealer space because they were like, well, you're just killing our customers because you're making people believe they can all make money.

And I was like, they can and they will make money because the industry is growing.

And dealers were obviously uncomfortable because they were losing margin.

And our students started making more money than dealers because they were learning to do this without the overhead, without the all the bullshit.

Because you see, like, the majority of the watch market focuses on the three core brands.

Patek, ap, Rolex, like they think of.

That's the watch market.

Those are the.

It's like the S and P.

It's like, this is the core of what the whole market is.

Those are blue chips.

That's your five.

Yeah.

This is your big thing.

But there's other investments out there.

Correct.

But those are like what people like in the dealer space or even just naturally people, when they hear watch, like expensive watch to go Rolex or I've heard like a rapper talk about our APRM or something like.

Like that, they generally like, stop there.

What I started teaching people is very different because I said, what Is it that jewelers don't like all these other brands, like they don't like Cartier, Hublot and everything else, so they shoot it so cheap.

Cheap.

It's like pawn shop mentality.

They basically buy so cheap, but they sell it for a high price, but they just don't like it.

They don't want that stuff because it doesn't move.

So when we started teaching Watch Trading Academy, I was like, why don't we teach the hardest part of the industry first, which was how to buy the stuff jewelers don't want, how to market it, how to sell it correctly and how to make the margins so that you're not interfering with what jewelers are doing by taking their trades and then.

You can step up to the bigger game later on?

Yes, but what that meant was you had a strong foundation for buying and selling.

Not the low hanging fruit, but you had built the ladders to get to the top of the tree and that was the piece that people missed in this.

So like our equation was very different.

We were taking people that weren't watch people that weren't with the pre notion that Rolex is it and everything else.

Even though it had a $500 margin and $10,000 watch.

I was like, this is stupid.

I was like, I'd rather have a $5,000 margin on a $4,000 watch, make five grand on my 4K investment.

Yeah, it takes longer, but that's one transaction.

And I made ten times what selling ten Rolexes would be.

So like it doesn't make sense.

So I was like, this is a better strategy but it's harder.

So it took more effort on our side to support our students to have more success because it was harder to have the success.

But now that we do, even when the markets crashed and after Covid, everything got cheap and high and you know, like everything moved, our students were impacted.

So they were making bank while jewelers were scrapping because Rolex prices were dropping after the pandemic was over and everybody now is like, oh, we don't have money anymore so things are changing and we don't need money watches.

So that really didn't, you know, impact our students, our students continuing to make more money.

And it took me three years to make the first 100k club member, meaning it took me three years to teach a guy to make 100k trading watches.

Oh wow.

Crazy, right?

Yeah.

Now I Crown A new 100k club member every week.

So I mean you post these guys your social media.

I've seen them every Stories.

Every single week, one new 100k club member.

For the record, I stuck you.

I noticed.

Yeah.

100k means that they've made $100,000 in net profits after 12 months.

Then we have a 250k club, a 500k club, a million dollars meaningful extra.

Income if people have full time jobs.

I mean, these are executive level money, you know, like for people that have normal W2 money.

Yeah.

I told, I told a Reporter today for U.S.

news that I know more people who work a typical W2 job that have a side hustle today than ever before.

Yeah, ever before.

That's the new 401k.

Yeah.

Your side hustle is you for 1k.

And if people can make an extra 100 grand, that's doubling some people's salaries because it's.

Because people have stopped waiting for money later.

That's the difference.

Like you don't want to enjoy life when they're 65.

Exactly.

Because that idea which we talked about at the beginning of the show, which is this idea of retirement and what you've been told and how life works.

Well, it, it may be been told to you that way, but social media and the Internet has shown you another side that doesn't look that way.

Like it's showing you 30 year olds in Ferraris and Lamborghinis is showing you 20 year olds, you know, wearing 100k watches.

And that triggers people.

First, it triggers people to get pissed because they're like, well, what are they doing that they can do this and I can't do that.

And two, it's also making people realign their thoughts on what should my life look like, what, what can it look like and how come that's happening and it's not happening to me.

So my greatest kind of happiness comes from when success triggers curiosity.

That's super important because success only triggers two things.

It's either curiosity or envy.

So I want success to trigger curiosity.

And that's why I'll come across maybe not liked.

But I'm like, if you're curious enough to follow.

True.

Then you'll eventually find the answer.

Right.

But your DMs must be really interesting.

Oh, people hate me, dude.

My, my YouTube comments are the best.

Like my YouTube comments are the best people to like me.

Really?

Wow.

And I love it because I actually like personally take like my Sundays and like answer people on like YouTube.

Yeah.

And I'll have some really church.

Yeah.

But like really every Sunday to YouTube and you make sure.

Yeah, yeah, I don't care.

I have no filter.

My team sometimes, like, has to lock me out of my YouTube because they're like, dude, you need to stop insulting people.

Because they're like, they'll start.

And I'm like, okay, let me just finish.

Because I'm.

But there is that mentality, unfortunately.

People.

People don't want.

I mean, side.

And I get it all the time on the show.

We'll give people that otherwise normal, sound advice, but it runs against what they think is normal or what they think is.

But I've never been attacked by someone who is wealthier or equally successful in their own right, even if it's not in my field.

You don't.

It's not.

It's not their way.

Yeah, it's.

I've never, like, no one has ever come to me and be like.

Like, they may have said, I don't agree with you or, I don't like you, but they've never attacked what I do.

Like, oh, this is Cam.

This bullshit is that.

But they may have said, like, I don't.

You know, I don't agree with that thought you had about this car or that.

Which is more of a friendly kind of, like, competitive.

It's like social circles.

People in your social group want you to stay where you're at.

Yeah, exactly.

And that's why whenever somebody in a social group makes it, everybody else typically falls away.

Right.

And they're like, oh, I lost all my friends.

Well, no, you're friends.

Yeah.

You know, they weren't exactly the same.

And that.

That's where it changes.

But site and I have this conversation all the time where people take religion, politics, and money.

That is like the instant fight to start with.

Anybody.

Yeah.

Because it has a social, like, kind of level to it, and it makes people kind of go, like, you can be Democrat or Republican, like, you have a clear construct.

The word is.

And there is two experiences in life, which is poverty or wealth.

Like, it's always at war.

It's extremism.

And people love to point the finger at somebody else.

On the opposite side of the extreme.

Even when people used to pick.

Like, I remember when I used to talk about success when I.

I wasn't that rich, but I used to, like, tell people that, like, here's why you need to get rich.

They were like, well, what about trust fund kids?

And I'm like, listen, at some point or another, someone paid the price for that kid to have that fund.

And I'm like, my son's a trust fund.

Right.

So that's the argument I was making.

I'm like, why do you work?

Well, you want to leave your kids with nothing?

They're like, no.

Then I'm like, well, someone else made it before you left that kid with something significant, which you're trying to accomplish now, or you hope your kids accomplish.

For their kids and the kid's not a problem because.

Yeah, exactly.

You know what I mean?

They have opportunities, but there's this envy in this hate that.

Like, oh, this kid has this.

And I worked 30 years, and I don't have this, you know?

So that's why I said success either triggers envy or curiosity.

And to me, it's always been curiosity before anything else.

If you're curious enough to know why people are how they are, it doesn't mean that's your path to getting there.

It means it's one more reinforcement that you can get there.

And I think that's the one thing I had, even as a kid.

It was like, I would pay people to, like, sit with them, even in banking.

I was like, hey, like, I'll give you 20 bucks to just have coffee with me and, like, tell me your life story for, like, just.

Just, like, 30 minutes.

And, like, my clients were like, why?

And I'm like, because your account's really large, and I want to know how you got there.

And they were like, wait, this is, like a banking thing.

I'm like, no, it's a personal thing.

Like, I'm your banker anyway, so if you ever need a favor, I'll give you my cell phone.

Like, you can do whatever.

Like, I'll take care of it.

But just, like, talk to me, like, tell me what it is.

And they would tell me, like, oh, I'm an export import, or I'm in this.

Or I'm in textile, and I'm this.

And I'm like, I don't really want to do these things.

So I'm not like, oh, I should do that too, because you're rich.

I was like, but there's commonalities in wealthy.

It wasn't even about that.

It was the idea that, like, that guy made it in that.

That guy made it in that.

That guy made it in that.

And these are completely different things.

Which means that I don't have to pick something like everyone else to make it too.

I can pick something completely different and also make it.

It's three more reasons that random people doing something completely random I didn't even hear of, like, made it.

Yeah.

And then so in my head, I was like, it's reinforcement that I can make it instead of being like, oh, like people today are like, what's the next industry to be in?

I'm like, the next industry you're willing to commit 10 years to is the industry to be in.

They're like, no, but what's the next one?

And make money.

And I'm like, I just told you that answer.

You just don't want to hear it because you're looking for me to say, here is how I made it, here's your step by step guide on doing.

It, and go do it right.

And they're like.

And they're like, that's what I want to do.

And I'm like, you're not going to beaten into.

But you're not.

But you're not going to do it anyways.

Even if I told you step by step what you had to do to make a million dollars and you knew exactly that there was a guaranteed million behind it, you would still fall off halfway through.

So we did this.

We told people, you want to make a million dollars?

We'll tell you right now how to have a million dollars.

At the time you're 65, like, whoa, whoa, whoa.

No, I want it now.

You're like, okay, well look, you put money in the S and P and you put this investment in.

Go invest.

You'll have a million dollars.

The problem is you don't want a million dollars like that.

You want a million dollars now.

Well, if you want that, that's a different conversation.

And that's called gambling.

Yeah, right.

So what you want is you want to gamble in hopes of winning.

And so when you try to stop that, then you come across as the asshole trying to block someone's scream.

I'm pretty much that guy anyways.

Me and you both commonalities.

I'm always a dream killer.

So Page, we talked about routinely on this show that a lot of financial habits for people tend to get built in by the age they're seven years.

Old and which is crazy.

Think about it.

Yeah, it's a study that came out of Purdue.

Is.

Is any of this from your upbringing or is the majority of this self taught?

No, I remember I told you, I guess at the beginning of this self awareness was always key.

And my mom like my upbringing, my mom was a single mother.

Like we were well off in Iran, but after revolution basically became broken France refugees and everything went the opposite direction, you know, of like money.

And so all my youth after like 2, 3 years old, which I don't even remember was basically lived in poverty.

And poverty being below the threshold where you had enough money now.

We had shelter, we had food.

So give my mom credit for the sake that we weren't in below survival mode, you know, but she did have to make choices at times if she ate or I ate, you know, during the, the earlier stages.

But there, there was one thing that I knew about my mom, and it was that as I grew older, you know, and I kind of watched my mom, I had learned that my mom would save money like crazy and was like, super careful because we didn't have that much money.

So she's really careful and very, very resourceful.

Very crazy, like, effective on like making money work because we had such limited amounts.

But as I grew older, instead of embodying that in that saving mentality, like, because my mom would keep saying, like, oh, you're making money now.

This job, it's a big job and you're making money.

You got to save X, you got to save X amount.

But, but I looked at my mom and I was like, but you don't have the things I want.

I was like.

And while you're like, probably the best role model for many different things in.

My life, hyper insulting to people though, right?

But, but you're.

You have the best role model for a lot of things that you've done very well.

And because of you, I've learned not to give up.

Always push for things, even when you're told no.

She used to return things to try to save us some money.

Not a bad person for wanting more.

No.

And, and I never felt like.

I never felt like.

Because I always felt that just because my mom's outcome was not what she wanted, what she wanted to get rich, it didn't work.

Didn't mean that my outcome was limited to that.

But I knew something that I took very personally for my mom's sacrifice because she sacrificed her whole life to make sure I had a decent life.

She never got remarried.

She never went after her career anymore.

She just did whatever she had to to just raise me.

It sounds a lot like my mom, right?

So the one thing I learned from my mom that like I, I just honored from my mom was the fact that I couldn't become a regular lawyer.

I couldn't become a regular successful person because I would just substitute what she could have done with what I did.

So I had to make up for her loss of 20 years by getting so successful or so ahead that it would offset that sacrifice.

So, like, to me, it was basically a black and white game.

I was like, I gave you 20 years to have a chance at life, not 20 years so you can have a chance at survival.

So it was like, go figure out what.

People confused that, though, man.

They think survival is, of course, because.

Because they don't have aspirations.

But, you know, like, for me, when I saw.

Like I said, it triggered curiosity when I saw people living that well.

When I saw my first Ferrari, I was like, amazing that someone can drive a car like that on a street and not get, like, hit or something happening.

When I saw a guy walking around in my bank with a $30,000 watch on in my head, I was like, okay, this guy is wearing what I have in my bank account, like, my entire life that I've accumulated so far.

And this dude is, like, wearing this as if it's nothing is, like, a pleasure.

And I'm like, how amazing.

I'm like, that's just something I'll never forget.

The first time I recognized a watch, it was a.

It was a Gold day date.

Presidential.

Same thing here.

Yeah, of course.

Because that was the.

The players watching vividly.

I remember thinking to myself, like, who is this guy?

What is he doing?

And that's.

And that's the thing.

It triggered the hell out of me.

Right?

And.

And that's why I said it either triggers curiosity or envy.

And if you have that within you to be able to shift envy to curiosity, then.

Then you can truly make yourself into whatever you want, because you will learn how other people have done what they've done, what their traits they've used, what steps they've used, and you'll start to realize what you're willing to do or how badly you're willing to work to also get there.

My mom and dad divorced when I was young, and my mom barely had.

She was a registered nurse.

She worked at the hospital for the mentally handicapped until she was much older.

We never.

Never to this day, we never fought about a single thing.

My mom had, like.

Like you.

Your mom had a lot of.

A lot of things that I admire to this day.

Respect the hell out of her.

To go that long in your life and have a child like me who's.

Yeah, exactly.

I would say I was a terrible.

And not fight with me.

Yeah.

And not argue me and just be able to, like, be a leader was incredible.

But the other side is I was looking at my mom's life and thought, like, okay, look, I love you, but you are not in the financial position that I want to be in.

And now it's weird, and I don't know what your relationship is Your mom today.

But my mom and I talk.

I mean, I still take care of my mom to this day.

Me too.

Bought her a house, you know, pay for the cars.

But to this day, when I talk to my mom, she says to me, like, I, you would not have been in the position you're in today had you have stayed with me and did the things that I told you to do financially.

Well, of course, because.

Because they didn't know how to.

If they did, they would have done it too.

Yeah, they bought in the American dream.

Yeah.

And you work hard and put your head down and do all those things which look good for you during your time.

And look, I am where I'm at today, and you are where you are today.

But that is not my dream.

My dream is more.

I mean, I saw the same thing happen in.

My uncle was like a, like a father to me growing up, you know, and he, he, he was a big shot executive when I came to America in a, in a hotel, you know, like, so he's that guy and it was corporate America.

He would bought in the dream.

We both got fired.

Like, you know, I got fired from banking.

He got fired.

Yeah.

And he went back and drank the Kool Aid and he kept going, you know, he's like, next job, etc.

Yeah.

And I was like, I ain't doing that.

That's it.

I was like, I drank the Kool Aid.

Yeah.

I, I thought it was going to.

And then this time I went and got a consulting job to pay myself to make sure, like, could continue to grow.

But.

But I didn't buy into it again, you know, that was the difference.

Like, he bought into it again.

He was all about, like, the team, new hotel, you know, and like, new direction.

And for me, it was the opposite.

Like that this time it's all about me, you know, like, I'm gonna.

Unfortunately, he died.

He actually just had pancreatic cancer recently and just passed away.

But.

But he never shifted his mind into that, like, next phase, you know, like what it could be.

And he did well as an executive.

Right.

But.

But he never lived the life he wanted to.

He still lived with significant limitations.

So he saw your life, though, and he saw the change and he created.

A sense of jealousy.

Oh, no, it did.

You know, it's done that in my entire family with everyone.

Like, they.

First off, half my family doesn't understand what I do for a living because they don't understand the scale of like, how big our organization is.

So they, yeah, they just can't do the math.

You know, like it's easier to put.

Their head into the ground.

Yeah.

But they don't understand.

Like the math to them is like so far from their capacity that they're just like, I don't know, like you can't, you know, they think I sell courses enough to have like a 30 million dollar car collection.

You know, it makes sense.

Like I don't know where it was.

Like, okay, so like that's all they think I do, you know?

And they're like, okay, well he just sells course on the Internet.

So like.

Right.

Why is he this rich?

Like I don't understand, you know, like they can't put two into the answer.

So instead of investigating talking to me or anything, it's more like them versus me kind of.

It's crazy why people just don't ask the question.

Right.

But like I can't.

But what did I just tell you?

Envy versus curiosity.

Like, it's still insane to me that there are people to the.

So site knows this.

I had a group of friends who literally were describing me as a drug dealer.

Yeah.

But that, that was me too growing up.

Like, you're my friends.

It was the same thing.

You're my friend.

Shah.

We both know it.

Knows it.

Like the same group, the same crew was like, oh, you know, he's lying or he's.

It's funny how people will always label you something correct instead of just ask you a question because they know the answer is probably not going to make them feel good about the themselves.

Well, they don't.

You know, they don't.

They don't want to know the answer.

They don't really care.

It's more about trying to put themselves at a high level or on an even playing field, even though they're not.

And this is what like people think they matter because one of the questions I get a lot, they go, do you think because you have more money than me, you're a better person?

And I usually say yes and it pisses them off.

And I'll say yes for a couple of reasons.

I'm like, take away your view of money as the evil thing and whatever and that it's disconnected from life.

The fact that I've learned how to create a resource at a significantly faster pace than you and I've learned to leverage that resource to create an ecosystem larger than you'll ever be in makes me a much more resourceful human.

So yes, even though we could argue that the word better is subjective because you don't even know how to label that today.

Let's just say that if better was just a scale of impact of money, of anything.

Yes, I've done things much greater than you.

So, yes, in the scale, I'm at a higher level than you.

And that's what people don't like to hear.

You know, like if we were playing a video game.

It's quantifiable.

Yes, exactly.

But life is a video game, so it is quantifiable.

It's just that the emotion involved with it just makes you feel less so.

So then you'll pick on something, you'll be like, well, you know what?

Like, like, oh, you know What?

You're like 2% extra body fat.

And I can tell you, you know, like, when you were sure you're not, like, perfectly ripped.

And I'm like, okay, if my goal in life was to be ripped, I would be ripped and jacked.

And if that's what I wanted my life to look like, that's the difference.

I could do that in six months.

The difference is you couldn't do what I do in the next six months.

So.

So there is a scale to things and a priority of things, or people will say, well, I have a great family.

Okay, so do I.

Like, you don't have to have some competitive edge on something.

This is the thing.

I hear this a lot, but that's how it works.

And this bothers me.

That's how it works.

Everybody automatically assumes that I'm a terrible dad.

Yes, Chris, you're working 16 hours a day.

That doesn't make me a bad father.

Well, they assume that if you've had success in something, it's because you've given up your soul.

And so therefore, now you don't have any emotions or.

I've got a partner who believes in what I do.

She's just as part of the brand.

But they don't.

But they don't.

But remember, envy requires people to feel again, requires to bring themselves up to a playing field.

And why do you think it triggers people when they're like, do you think you're better than me?

I'm like, yes.

And they're like, that's.

That's a trigger word for them.

And the reason I do it is because there's nothing positive that's going to come out of that conversation when that question's engaged.

Well, it challenges people to look at themselves.

So it doesn't matter, you know, positive.

Or not, the outcome could be good.

Yeah.

If somebody looks in the mirror afterwards and goes, you know what?

I want better.

If you need External motivation to become successful.

You're only looking for external motivation to get you kicked up, only to fall back down because the next motivator won't come along so.

So that you can never be successful.

Like.

Like, if money is the direct root of your happiness, it will fall off.

If progress is the direct root of your happiness, it'll forever stand so that the real difference is that you can make progress in money, too.

And that's why it gives you a false sense of happiness, like, for that moment, because you got the next new car, the next new dopamine.

Exactly, Exactly.

But internal progress is key.

So if you make.

That's why a lot of people make a ton of money and are incredibly unhappy in life because they're not progressing in other metrics of their life life.

And they're not chasing the dopamine and they're.

They're getting all the money.

But eventually the effect of it wears out.

It's the same with marketing or anything else.

Like, the first impact is always huge.

Your first exotics, always big.

Then the next one's less.

The next one's less after.

Like, today, I can tell you every single car, but I don't give a.

I could buy another Bugatti.

I'd put it there.

I'd be like, I don't want to drive it.

I'm too busy till Thursday.

But if it was my first car, I'd be like, oh, my God, let's call, like, my 50 friends.

Let's go out.

Let's go here.

Let's put, like, park it here.

Let's take a photo shoot here.

Let's go talk here.

Like.

Like, it was all about the excitement, right?

Like, and that dies off over time.

I mean, it's the same thing with design.

You see a beautiful house, you think it's amazing.

You see 10 beautiful houses.

You're like, this is cool.

Like, your excitement to, like, go explore it keeps going down.

Like, yeah.

That's how our eyes are set.

So our bodies historically just are built for progress because time only moves forward, so you only need things to increase.

You never want to go backwards.

You never want to go.

You never go.

I ate at a restaurant.

I hope the next one is worse.

You're like, like, I'm gonna try to find a better place.

I hope this place.

I want a better experience.

Exactly.

Even if you had a great restaurant next to you, you don't go, like, I'm just gonna eat there because I.

I know it's great.

You eventually go, I'm gonna try Something else.

And you could have worse before, but eventually you're like, I found better.

That place is better than that place.

And dopamine dies out and then you find another place.

Exactly.

So, so these, these evolutionary traits, when you're young, you evolve very fast, quick because, because these changes happen very large.

But at some point you get to the top and there isn't that much more stimulation like the top Lamborghinis and that much better than top Ferrari.

So like they're like on the same scale.

So, so progress starts to look inwards.

Only once you've reached that experience threshold where it's so high that you can't top it anymore.

And you start looking at all these other experiences you're lacking in your life and you start bringing those up to that level.

That's why owning an exotic car can help you significantly.

I always connect exotic cars to consciousness and people are like, I don't get that.

I mean, you've written about it, right?

But they're like spirituality and cars.

Like, what the are you talking about?

Right?

Like.

But the reality is there's two reasons why exotic cars trigger consciousness.

First off, they elevate the experience of ownership to a level of community, people and new higher level experiences.

Hotter car, hotter restaurants, hotter houses.

You have a really hot car in an average house, you eventually want to upgrade your house.

So you push harder, you keep going.

You know, like it's this, this lifestyle you go into that pushes you up.

The second piece is, is the untalked about part, which is the experience of the drive.

So you buy a car to go from point A to point B.

You buy an exotic to experience point A to point B.

These are two completely different things.

One is control of time.

The other one is forced through time, meaning you have to get somewhere to do something, right?

So times ahead of you, the other one, you're enjoying the time to get there.

So these are two completely different things.

Now when you get in an exotic car, you're also not just focused on the speed of getting there, which is again, what poor people think.

Why does your car get there faster?

The speed limit is the same.

No, no correlation whatsoever.

It's not just about the experience of the drive, but it's also the touching of all the other pieces of excellence that have come together to create that.

Like how many robots came together to create a Kia that no one gave a about so that you can be a consumer?

And how many people's racing heritage, comfort heritage, design heritage, came together to build the most epic Ferrari they could Find so that only 30 people could actually buy one because they only made 30.

And that experience is not just the people that came together to build.

It is the generations of expertise that came before that that got that product to that level, saying that's the experience you're supposed to have when you drive a car.

And so the heightened, highest level of collective conscious experience came together around that topic and said this is the best product of what humans can experience today based on what we know of what we can do in the expert phases of our lives and experiences.

We brought here together to get you to buy this.

And there's only 30 people in the world that will be lucky enough to.

Experience it and share that experience.

Exactly.

And so there is so much power that goes into being behind a steering wheel of that, of that power of collective consciousness that came together to make that one 10 minute, 50 minute, 2 hour experience happen.

That does not exist or even is on the same playing field.

When you have a Honda, a Kia or something else that just gets you that was created in a means to be transactional in nature.

It's like you need this to get from point A to point B.

You'd like to be comfortable with lumbar support.

You like to have some music, put a Bluetooth player for you.

Utility is not the same thing.

Yes, exactly.

So utility and experience are two completely different things.

I like to tell people when they question this.

There's a video on YouTube and I got to find it at some point in time showing how the hand painted option on the side of a Ferrari.

How long?

Yeah, yeah, it's amazing.

Yeah, it's an amazing process.

It takes days and days and days.

If I can get it, I always get it.

Yeah, I don't care.

It's like 30, 40 grand.

I always pay for it.

Yeah, it's worth, it's about 40.

Yeah, but it's worth it.

But it's an incredible thing.

People it love people see, they'll walk by Ferrari and they'll see it.

They won't even understand what that logo represents.

And that it's an option you actually pay for.

Oh, it's like on the side of stick on the side of my, my BMW.

Not the same.

Yeah, no, but in, in the, in what it creates, the feeling increase when you look at it is just different.

It's a huge sense of pride.

But, but look at how it's what we call a micro feeling.

Because an average person looks at a shield on a Ferrari and looks at that painted thing and sees the same thing.

So that experience of that really hand drawn shield is not meant for everyone.

And so one of the things that I've learned about life experiences and consciousness is we don't all experience life at the same vibration at all times.

And there are different things that hold different meanings to different people.

But one of the most important things is that the greatest experiences in the world aren't meant to be had by all people at all stages.

So.

So yes, there is a beauty to the fact that it took 30 years to get to a point where you didn't give a shit about spending 40 grand on a hand painting on the side of a car to appreciate its nature.

It's also why poor people usually very rarely appreciate art for its intent, you know, and they don't really understand it.

They just like pictures and colors and things.

Yeah.

But as they gain experience and understand what art is, it starts to like make sense then.

But it's usually not when you're 15, 20, 25.

It's usually once you've achieved a certain level that like you start to, to want to experience how other people perceive consciousness and see it.

And so you give value to that enough.

But someone who's like, poor, like their survival ship hasn't been met, so their internal experience isn't actualized yet, so they can't make sense of external experiences of consciousness from other people.

So like they don't understand.

Like that's like such a them by the system.

Well, it's a foreign, like it's, it just doesn't exist.

You know, I have a funny story.

I want to be mindful the time.

You got time still?

Yeah, we should be good.

So I have a philosophical question for you, but before I get there, I.

I once had a friend of mine give me a weed candy.

I don't, I don't do drugs.

I'm like, I'm not, I don't smoke weed and that stuff.

But he gave me weed candy.

I was in Paris with his family and I unintentionally got super high, did not know what I was doing.

We walk into the Louvre and I spent probably an hour in front of the mono.

I swear to God, I thought it was five minutes.

I'm looking at the Mona Lisa, but I'm sitting there and it's like people going by and I didn't even recognize it.

I look up, it's been an hour.

To this day, I vividly remember every single piece of it in the room.

And I see it's.

It's one of those wild experiences that you cannot pay me enough to take.

I mean, the value in that experience.

It's weird how it sounds so just strange that a buddy of mine can drug me, I sit in the room.

But that experience is priceless.

The beauty in the moment, looking back on it and all the things that came together for that moment is huge.

The philosophical question I want to ask you.

I met a guy on the east coast a long time ago, brilliant guy.

He works with, you know, Fortune 500 CEOs, but his job is really to kind of gauge personalities that are going to fit together on the team.

He's a different kind of dude.

Didn't really spend a lot of time in classical school, but he knows.

People used to always tell me that my biggest flaw was that I expected the same.

Different people that have the same capacity for work.

Yeah.

Impossible.

Why do you think that's impossible?

There's so much that goes into that.

But I think the evolution of humans, like I say, comes in three stages.

Awareness, self awareness, consciousness.

So different people are different spectrums of that equation and at different times.

Right.

And so capacity is only expanded based on the spectrum you're at.

So like, if you're like end of, I'll give you end of, second circle on your way to third and you meet a guy that's the beginning of the first, that's really hungry, like, you know, like just a.

I'm gonna do it for you, dude.

Whatever it takes, you know, we'll make it work.

Like, I just want a chance.

It's not that like he's not gonna work hard.

He just doesn't have the capacity to like take in information dissected, turn around and use it.

And the speed of that transaction from receiving information to acting on it, significantly skewed from yours.

So there's no way he can achieve or at the same rate, you know, like so, so, but yet we expect people to.

Well, I don't.

Society.

Well, I shouldn't say we the.

The society at large expect.

And so let's play it for the circle things from your book, the third circle theory.

You have circumstance, right?

So the three side three circles, which are awareness, your control over basically your environment.

Second circle, which is self awareness, your control over identity, societal identity.

Then the second phase being life identity, cosmic identity, I call it.

And then the third circle, your control over time, which is consciousness.

So that's the evolution of the human.

True, not, not everyone evolves all the way there, but that's the intended evolution of how the body and the spirit is built together as Kind of a coexisting mechanism and what it's intended to be able to accomplish now that you get there or not totally different things.

That's a subjective thing.

Because I would say, I would argue that less than like 1 2% of people, and this isn't a money thing, get to that level of consciousness where they can comprehend time, how it works, and no longer have choices in life, but rather only have intent, then the majority of human beings are stuck towards the.

Like they reach the end of the first circle by the end of their life cycle.

And really successful people usually reach the middle of the second circle if they're only successful in money.

If people question society and want to break free of society, like they want to conquer the matrix and grow past it, and they don't get stuck in the matrix at a high level, then they start transitioning towards the second half of existence, which if you study a lot of what great philosophers like Carl Jung or Nietzsche or people have said in the past, they're like, life starts at 40 because the body is supposed to have been set in a societal ways by 40.

So like the identity crisis of like your societal identity set and you're starting to question the existence of life after 40.

Like what is living?

What is being a human?

The majority of people, though, because society has become so polarizing, get stuck in this idea that they.

They mix this idea that having high success rate in society means that they have their identity to what we talked about earlier, which is hiding behind your business card, I mean, executive, I make $10 million, blah, blah, blah.

That's what I am like.

And that's.

If I did that, then I would say I'm a banker by societal identity.

But my cosmic identity is teaching.

So that's why I focus heavily on teaching.

And I've been able to kind of combine the two.

My cosmic identity being teaching, my societal identity being banking.

And I teach a lot of financial concepts.

So like that's.

I've been able to maximize that.

That's why I find a lot of success internally, financially and in every other way, fulfillment and financially in that regard.

So when people don't evolve right, they get kind of stuck there.

But then some people start to question life and start to act on that question of curiosity, move towards the end of the second circle and eventually find themselves faced with this idea of legacy, how that's created, and that they're able to remove their legacy from their personal existence and therefore from there start to transition towards control of time, because time becomes a limited resource at that point, because they understand it, then they can basically slow it down here and make it function through just incredible intent, incredible experiences.

And they basically live the most fulfilled life you can think of.

When you're younger, you don't have a real appreciation for time.

You think it's infinite.

Well, because again, it's not that you think it's infinite.

It's because you don't have control over your environment.

So your environment is attacking you and you're in survival mode to make sense of it.

So you can't worry about things when you're at a stage where like, like, like, in other words, like, you can't have someone worry about the experience they're going to have going to the Louvre, right?

When they're worried about what they're going to eat tomorrow, the kids are going to eat.

So they just don't.

It's not even in their spectrum of.

Like, my mom's never even left the country.

Right.

It's an.

It's not in their spectrum of understanding.

So it's just not a connected experience.

So like when, when we say we expect people to have different capacities, I would say meet people where they are and try to improve from their baseline.

Don't expect their baseline to be where you are.

So, so that's like a good way to look at leadership and like management of people.

You know, regardless that you're building large teams or small teams is meet people where they are.

And if the character is good and the capacity is not, because they're obviously at a lower level, then work off of that.

And with the right character, they'll keep working on it.

So they'll evolve.

But see, you know, and the irony is if someone labels you a bad guy because you're so polarizing on social media, bad guys don't say stuff like.

No, but listen, I'm, I've, I've never.

And I, I hear Elon said this a lot too, and he's like, I just don't care to be like that thing.

It's like a terrible thing when you.

Want to be like the appropriate thing.

You can't.

If you care to be liked, you will never win.

I don't give a shit if people like me.

At the end of the day, look like all the dealers hated me when I started teaching.

Watch trading.

But thousands of lives have been changed to the point where I see these guys come out of nowhere and they're like, dude, I was broke.

Now I got a million dollars a year, I got an income, I got a family.

I got new kids.

I mean, everything's great.

That's a success, Right?

Like, I don't care about someone's opinion of me, right?

But I've always said this.

Find one of my students, one anywhere that says they've been scammed by taking my course.

They don't.

They're not there.

Now the outside world, oh, this is a scam.

This guy's an.

Like, this is a dick.

No, like, find one guy that, like, knows me, sat down with me, talk to me, like, and says, like, oh, this guy's a dick.

Doesn't exist.

The guys that say that are the guys that only judge you based on the smallest of context because they're not interested in knowing you.

So if that guy has an opinion of me, I just don't care.

It's not that.

Like, I would.

I like for that guy to be like, oh, my God, you're a nice guy.

Well, I wouldn't care.

Like, it wouldn't change anything.

Like, if it's like, you're nice or you're like, my life doesn't change.

People are like, you're not likable.

Okay, what does that mean?

What?

Like, why do I care?

Like, okay, but.

But, like, here's the other argument.

Someone will say, like, oh, I like that guy Stephen Graham on YouTube.

We're talking about that.

Okay, well, what did he do for you?

Nothing.

Nothing.

Nothing.

Exactly.

Never does.

You like it because it doesn't challenge you.

Yeah.

It makes you feel okay.

Right.

And when people.

You like people that share a similar view to you because you can get along and have a conversation in agreement.

If someone doesn't, usually you're like, that guy's an idiot because he doesn't like this.

I'll go like that further.

I'll look at someone like, Dave Ramsey.

He's not teaching anybody to get out of his ecosystem.

He wants to keep you there.

Correct.

The whole point of his ecosystem is to get you so ingratiated into his cult that you never fucking leave.

Yeah, that's my problem.

Yeah.

And, you know, a lot of times, obviously, we're on social media platform where people are like, dude, mentor me.

And my first answer is, did you take my books?

Did you take my courses?

No, no, no.

I'll pay you 30 grand.

Mentor me.

And I go, I tell you what, when you finish all my books and courses, then call me.

And they're like, oh, but that's 30 grand.

I'm like, no, it's way less.

Like, it's some course of 500 bucks some books are like $10 by the time you're done.

If you don't have the answers you seek, there's two things that are going to have happened.

First, you would have helped yourself, right?

So enough for me to know that you're genuinely interested and committed in learning.

Right.

Like, you're taking the steps.

Secondly, it's a lot cheaper to read a book than to have me ear you from A to Z on this concept, you know, like, at 30 grams, like, so sexy, right?

And then three, I was like, there's something else here, too.

It's going to help me become a better teacher.

If you tell me you've gone through all my courses and all my books and you're still stuck.

Yeah.

And so if the value of our conversation is not reciprocated, I don't give a shit about your 30 grand.

So if you pay me 30 grand, I'm past the stage where the money value exceeds the real value of evolution.

So I don't need the 30 grand.

What I need is for that conversation between us to be meaningful.

And if you've done, like, I'll do coaching for free for students that have taken all my courses.

You know, they're like, coming like, I'm confused about this for.

Someone asked me a question about my book.

Book, I'll take, like, 10 minutes to answer, you know, like, completely free.

And they're like, oh, like, why'd you do it?

I'm like, because you made an effort to want to learn why this worldview is potentially an opportunity for you.

It is my duty as a cosmic acceptance of my purpose of teaching to ensure that you are understanding what I'm putting down in the correct manner, that I, like it or not, because that is my chosen purpose, is to teach.

And so I cannot let you get away with misunderstanding my intent when you've made an effort to learn.

So, like, that's what a good teacher would do.

That's.

That's the key.

And if I've committed to teaching, then I have to accept that.

Like, I can't just say, well, as long as there's money associated with it, like, pay me.

Right?

But when someone doesn't take the courses and is like, you know, I want you to coach me, they're basically saying, convince me they can teach me something.

And I'm like, I'm not in that business, nor do I have time, nor do I give it to take your money for that, nor do I need your money.

So.

Because people think once they pay for service or something, that you work for them, right?

That they basically, like, they're owed something.

So sometimes people will buy my, like, a service in one of our coaching things, like in one of our courses or something.

I'll be like, help me to get a car or whatever.

And I'm like, this is what a hack is.

This is where your car is.

And they'll be like, oh, but what I want is this.

And I'm like, I can't help you buy that.

That.

And they go, but I paid you.

I'm like, I will refund you.

It's fine.

But I can't help you buy that.

And they go, why not?

That's what I want.

I go, because if you buy that, you're going to lose 40 grand.

Then you're going to blame me for losing 40 grand because I didn't stop you.

I was like, my job isn't to stop you.

My job is to teach you.

You paid me for a service to do something that I do in this service.

You're asking me to change what I do in the service and do something else.

The outcome of that is going to be a negative experience for you, and it's going to be a negative review for me.

And then it's going to go, you telling your friends that you did that, you bought this, I helped you, you lost 40 grand.

Wow.

Like, this guy was bullshit.

I don't want that.

There's no money you can pay me that's going to take away my integrity or change my mind to make you happy.

So I'd rather just repay you.

They're like, oh, you've already taken two hours.

Talk to me.

I'm like, I don't care.

Like, the only reason we even have these programs sell people, find cars is to prove this works when they don't know what they're doing.

It's not to take them away into something else.

Like, entirely.

Like, oh, this is your imagination.

You wanted a blue Porsche and you wanted a 2025, and this is what you bought.

And the guy told you this was a good deal and you're making me compete.

Or.

Yeah, I was like, I don't care.

So the intent is to teach.

So the life around that has to be authentic to that more than anything else.

Like, I can't forfeit my integrity as a teacher no matter how much money comes, because then I'm forfeiting my cosmic identity for my societal one.

And remember, my cosmic identity comes after my societal one, not before.

So that's why I always tell people making a ton of money is not always directly related to what you want the world to know you for, but it can be something you do so you don't have to put up or have other people corrupt what you're here to do.

So that's why it's so important.

And that's why when I wrote my books, they were different and separate from all these courses and all these other things I do.

Like, I've made a fortune and continue to make a lot of money in the car space, watch space around these industries.

Like everything from a bank that funds, you know, dealers and jewelers to a huge tech company that does a ton of money around technology as it pertains to watches.

So there is so many things that I make money with that are in that industry.

And yet my true passion and love is consciousness and helping humans become better, which I've done for a decade, even though it hasn't been my main core reasoning for my, for my income.

But some of the things that are important, the reason I've been able to do so well at it is because I haven't had to rely on selling an extra book or selling an extra course or selling mentorship in that as a result of surviving and thriving, right?

Like, I'm like, hey, these businesses, I'm making millions of dollars.

I'm fine.

Like, I'm okay.

Now here's this other thing I really want to do.

I can share that and do it for like 10 hours and I don't care if I get paid or not.

And so if I can do it later and suddenly it pays billions of dollars, great.

Like, that's fine.

I'm not saying I'm going to turn down the money, but what I'm saying is I'm not going to corrupt high do it because the money is how people perceive me to want to do it.

I teach completely separate from anything else, which is I made my money, I love teaching, I do it.

If I love doing something and I'm really good at it, of course I should get paid for it because that's how people exchange value for what they can't give you.

Or I'm not a monk.

So if they want to learn to drive a Ferrari, they can pay me.

Maybe a terrible monk, right?

But they can pay me.

But what happens is I don't have to teach something different because that's what the market wants to know.

When marketers come in, they're like, this is my societal identity.

I'm a marketer, so I will market the next great thing that makes me money.

I'VE been teaching the same for the last like 15 plus years.

So it's almost two decades now that I'm teaching literally alternative assets.

I was teaching alternative assets when people thought it was and nobody should buy a car, they thought it was.

Nobody should buy a watch, they thought it was bullshit because art was appreciating.

Doesn't matter.

I've been teaching the same thing.

I've been teaching in the highs, in the lows, in the best of times, in the worst financial collapse, in the best times where the best economic times where people were printing money like didn't exist.

I'll still be teaching in 10 years because not only it's what I believe, but it's what I do.

So I only teach from experience and that's what I teach.

Some people like it, some people, not the people that do, like in terms of curiosity and engage with it, typically have a lot of success, like your buddy, and it triggers something in them to keep going.

Now if that's the only trigger and that's it, and that's our interaction.

You're just interacted with me and you believe you can and you went in on your own, had curiosity and said, hey, I don't care about your courses, I'm gonna do this on my own.

Okay then, great.

I've inspired you to go do that.

Fantastic.

I don't need to get paid for that.

Hey, I don't know how to do this.

Well, listen, I've put this all down for you.

So you have a step by step guideline to get started, get on your way and execute effectively.

Does that mean I'm the most knowledgeable guy in the can happen in the world on cars?

No.

Am I the best banker in the world?

No.

But I'm a really good teacher and I know exactly how to teach people because I know what blocks them from being successful at doing something that they want to face.

That or not might take five years in between the time they interact and the time they act.

But if I've helped by having great community, great other people that have thought that come back and help others as time goes, instead of a kid taking three years to finally commit, it'll take him three weeks.

You know, it used to take me probably four to eight months to convince someone that once they took my first course, you need to go in and like buy your first watch, buy your first car.

Now it takes me 15 days.

But that's because of the track record.

It's not because I'm doing something different.

My trainings improved every Year.

I improve my classes every year.

Every course, completely free.

I never charge anything.

So we do a course since 2007.

Every year there's a new course.

The same guy that paid $97 back then or $500 today gets the same exact course updated over and over and over.

And it's.

And it's free.

Like, I don't go, like, oh, dude, I did 2.01 version.

Buy that.

That's like 10 grand, you know, like, now that's, like, so much better.

Because I'm the person I am today.

Knows so much more than a person back then.

Yeah.

Teaching you so much more now.

So more knowledge.

Oh, the course is, like, three hours longer, so you should pay for that.

Nope, same cost.

And people are like, how come your courses don't go up?

Like, astronomical value?

Because you will get less people to try them.

Yeah.

So I want them to try them.

I want them to go, I'm in.

And I want them to attempt to keep an open mind that if you knew what the you were doing, you wouldn't be enticed by my ad to come click it and wonder, because you already knew what the year do.

You already have five Ferraris.

You already have your life together.

You're like, great, I'm giving you, but you're not.

That's why you see my ad and you go, wow, Like, I.

I want a car.

Then you go, I don't like that guy.

I won't learn from it.

Well, you didn't like most of your teachers in school either.

There's a lot of I didn't like.

I know.

Exactly.

But the ones that made the biggest impacts weren't the ones you love the most, often the ones that taught you something that you didn't expect to learn, and they pulled it out of you in a different way.

And you were like, wow, that guy took effort.

And, you know, like, in.

In topics that you maybe had no interest.

You know, they got you interested in chemistry when you didn't, and that's the key.

I don't like chemistry.

But if you can get someone curious enough instead of being envious to get them curious enough to try something that I think is an effective marketing tactic.

Right.

To get them in the door.

Yeah.

But if the quality of the teaching can be there so that they learn something once they're hooked in the door, then that's the impression I want to leave on people that backs it up.

Yeah.

I think that's what we should call it, a rap.

Let's get you to Dan.

You got it, brother.

I appreciate you so much for coming on.

My pleasure.

Hopefully there was enough value here for people.

Oh, there's be some value there.

And you know what?

We're going to have the links in the show notes.

There'll be everything there.

You need to see more.

You'll have all the access to all that material and more.

Thank you for tuning in, everybody.

We'll see you next time.

And as Saeed would say, good night, everybody.

Bye.

Yeah, that's not a good.

We'll work on that site.

Yeah.