1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:09,120 Kevin Mako: Hello, product innovators. Today we learn about the four types of intellectual property protection for your hardware product business from a 30-year veteran in the technology and legal space. 2 00:00:09,660 --> 00:00:18,800 Kevin Mako: This is the Product Startup Podcast, a show to learn from top leaders in hardware product development, prototyping, manufacturing, product selling, and everything in between. 3 00:00:18,980 --> 00:00:23,600 Kevin Mako: Hosted by Kevin Mako, the leading expert on product development for hardware startups. 4 00:00:24,490 --> 00:00:28,250 Kevin Mako: Welcome back, everyone. I'm very excited to introduce Steven Weigler to the show. 5 00:00:28,250 --> 00:00:34,370 Kevin Mako: Steven has been in the startup legal world, ran his own business, and worked for big corporations in the intellectual property arena. 6 00:00:34,750 --> 00:00:47,290 Kevin Mako: Today, Steven will share valuable knowledge for inventors, startups, and small manufacturers on the four types of intellectual property protection, how to use these protections to increase the value of your hardware product business and how these protections work together. 7 00:00:47,550 --> 00:00:48,910 Kevin Mako: Now, on to the episode. 8 00:00:50,860 --> 00:00:59,520 Kevin Mako: This show is produced by Mako Design, the original firm providing end-to-end consumer product development services tailored specifically to hardware startups. 9 00:00:59,660 --> 00:01:06,360 Kevin Mako: small manufacturers and inventors. Take your product from idea to store shelves at MakoDesign.com. 10 00:01:06,560 --> 00:01:10,720 Kevin Mako: Now on to the episode. Hey, Steven, welcome to the show. 11 00:01:11,000 --> 00:01:12,235 Steven Weigler: Good to see you, Kevin. 12 00:01:12,235 --> 00:01:16,680 Kevin Mako: Well, I'm really excited today to talk to you about the four elements of intellectual property development. 13 00:01:16,680 --> 00:01:26,000 Kevin Mako: This is not just the patent, which everybody thinks about, especially as a hardware startup, especially as building a physical product, but there's other elements of intellectual property as well. 14 00:01:26,000 --> 00:01:30,120 Kevin Mako: We'll dive into what those are and some best practices in and around. 15 00:01:30,140 --> 00:01:34,820 Kevin Mako: own that. But before we get into intellectual property protection for a company, a hardware 16 00:01:34,820 --> 00:01:38,880 Kevin Mako: startup, especially one who's thinking about exiting or is in the process of exiting, 17 00:01:39,220 --> 00:01:44,840 Kevin Mako: meaning selling. So looking at selling your actual product business, the end game of your 18 00:01:44,840 --> 00:01:49,880 Kevin Mako: hardware startup potentially and all of the intellectual property considerations that might be behind 19 00:01:49,880 --> 00:01:53,200 Kevin Mako: that. Before we get into all of that, Steve, we just get this a bit of a background of how you 20 00:01:53,200 --> 00:01:59,840 Steven Weigler: became the success story that you are today. Thank you. So I started out very much just wanting to 21 00:01:59,840 --> 00:02:04,100 Steven Weigler: be an attorney. I really wanted to get in the courtroom. So I started as a criminal 22 00:02:04,100 --> 00:02:08,860 Steven Weigler: prosecutor of all things in Miami, Florida. And so what that did is that really toughen me up. 23 00:02:08,860 --> 00:02:13,680 Steven Weigler: It can be a tough place. Long story short, I got into technology law. I was recruited by AT&T 24 00:02:13,680 --> 00:02:19,080 Steven Weigler: and really helped advocate for a lot of their products and plays, especially when we were getting 25 00:02:19,080 --> 00:02:25,040 Steven Weigler: into 21st century plays from used to be just wires going across the country. So 21st century 26 00:02:25,040 --> 00:02:29,660 Steven Weigler: plays and how you had packaged those from both the marketing standpoint and explaining the technology. 27 00:02:29,840 --> 00:02:34,600 Steven Weigler: to utilities commissions and making sure that we could get out of regulation. 28 00:02:35,180 --> 00:02:39,960 Steven Weigler: And so anyway, so I really learned a tremendous amount about number one, how a large corporation 29 00:02:39,960 --> 00:02:45,720 Steven Weigler: works. And number two, a lot about technology. Telecom technology kind of crashed once it became 30 00:02:45,720 --> 00:02:51,140 Steven Weigler: deregulated, the need for attorneys eviscerated. And as opposed to just going to a law firm, 31 00:02:51,440 --> 00:02:56,420 Steven Weigler: I decided to start my own company that was focused on packaging content and predictive analytics 32 00:02:56,420 --> 00:02:59,820 Steven Weigler: for school districts around the United States and Canada and Singapore. 33 00:02:59,840 --> 00:03:05,120 Steven Weigler: work. It was very much a technology play. It led the company for about seven to eight 34 00:03:05,120 --> 00:03:08,980 Steven Weigler: years through the good, the bad, the ugly, which anyway, long story short, about eight, nine years 35 00:03:08,980 --> 00:03:13,920 Steven Weigler: ago, after I exited my own company, I went into a coffee shop and I wrote down everything I knew, 36 00:03:14,120 --> 00:03:20,480 Steven Weigler: and it really led me to this specific practice. The companies I usually work with are growth 37 00:03:20,480 --> 00:03:26,040 Steven Weigler: companies, meaning they could be growing for their own value, and they could be growing for the exit. 38 00:03:26,640 --> 00:03:29,500 Steven Weigler: And in a way, it doesn't matter. Growth is growth. Certain things in certain things. 39 00:03:29,840 --> 00:03:33,340 Steven Weigler: steps you have to think about along the way. And so that's really what this firm is called 40 00:03:33,340 --> 00:03:37,880 Kevin Mako: EmergeCounsel. That's great. Very helpful and useful. And I'm really excited to dig into the 41 00:03:37,880 --> 00:03:42,960 Kevin Mako: legalities of that, especially looking at intellectual property. So let's just start big picture 42 00:03:42,960 --> 00:03:48,340 Kevin Mako: in the beginning. What are these four pillars of intellectual property protection for a hardware 43 00:03:48,340 --> 00:03:53,460 Kevin Mako: startup as they're scaling or planning to exit? Let's go through each of those just at a high level. 44 00:03:53,460 --> 00:03:58,600 Kevin Mako: And then we'll dig into each one with some best tips and tricks. Sure. Well, to begin with intellectual 45 00:03:58,600 --> 00:04:04,780 Steven Weigler: property, all it means is intangible assets that were created by the month. And so it's a broad 46 00:04:04,780 --> 00:04:10,000 Steven Weigler: quantity of assets. And it's something that carries on the balance sheet, right? It's an asset. It can be 47 00:04:10,000 --> 00:04:16,060 Steven Weigler: very hard to quantify. So we kind of look at it from a protection standpoint. Patent protects ideas 48 00:04:16,060 --> 00:04:23,360 Steven Weigler: and inventions. And so or improvements, substantial improvements on inventions. And so an example of a 49 00:04:23,360 --> 00:04:28,580 Steven Weigler: patent can be how the product is designed. So the Apple iPods or anything. 50 00:04:28,600 --> 00:04:35,560 Steven Weigler: Apple is really uniquely packaged from Apple Corporation. That design has really carried 51 00:04:35,560 --> 00:04:41,640 Steven Weigler: a lot of Apple's value, the design of their product. All they all create a unique design. Those designs 52 00:04:41,640 --> 00:04:49,400 Steven Weigler: are patent. But a lot of times, it can also be a utility patent, meaning it's a utility of the function 53 00:04:49,400 --> 00:04:56,400 Steven Weigler: and functionality. It could be software. It could be hardware. It could be the electronic components that connect the 54 00:04:56,400 --> 00:05:01,560 Steven Weigler: hardware. And so it becomes extremely abstract what you can patent and what you can't patent. 55 00:05:01,980 --> 00:05:05,780 Steven Weigler: If you're really going to patent, you have to take a look at the strategy. You also have to look 56 00:05:05,780 --> 00:05:11,900 Steven Weigler: in patent. You can't use the product, put it at market, and then say there's a patent. And I'm keeping 57 00:05:11,900 --> 00:05:15,820 Steven Weigler: this really easy because the patent books are like this. You can't put the product out there, 58 00:05:15,880 --> 00:05:20,320 Steven Weigler: then file for a patent. Generally speaking, you can on certain circumstances a year. 59 00:05:20,780 --> 00:05:26,020 Steven Weigler: A lot of times, you really have to make sure that you're within the time frame that you can file a patent. 60 00:05:26,400 --> 00:05:31,680 Steven Weigler: So, and then I'll go on to the other forms of IP. If your business play, say, is, I have put all 61 00:05:31,680 --> 00:05:37,960 Steven Weigler: my money, all my time into building a circuit box that is unique on how the circuits can do. And 62 00:05:37,960 --> 00:05:42,560 Steven Weigler: you put it out there. This is your play. Everything's going to grow up that play. You're the 63 00:05:42,560 --> 00:05:47,360 Steven Weigler: circuit box company. You decided, oh, you know, I never really thought about that two years later. 64 00:05:47,880 --> 00:05:52,692 Steven Weigler: Well, you kind of blew the whole ability to obtain a patent. 65 00:05:52,692 --> 00:05:55,580 Kevin Mako: Now, it's never like absolutely 100% 66 00:05:55,580 --> 00:06:02,280 Steven Weigler: and a never like 0% chance. Sometimes it's closer to zero than the 100% percent. And patent is 67 00:06:02,280 --> 00:06:07,820 Steven Weigler: regulated by the United States Patent and Trade Merck Office. It's examined by someone that has 68 00:06:07,820 --> 00:06:13,800 Steven Weigler: from the same field that the inventions brought. It's much easier, generally speaking, to get a design 69 00:06:13,800 --> 00:06:18,460 Steven Weigler: patent. Remember, we talked about the Apple, how they're designed. That's much easier to get them 70 00:06:18,460 --> 00:06:25,260 Steven Weigler: than not, but sometimes less bad. So that's the first one. Patent is a huge area of law, especially for 71 00:06:25,260 --> 00:06:31,180 Steven Weigler: your listeners. And you really have to have that strategy early. You can improve on your 72 00:06:31,180 --> 00:06:36,980 Steven Weigler: own product and get a patent later. Sometimes the person that patents the products because they're the 73 00:06:36,980 --> 00:06:42,620 Steven Weigler: inventor is not the person that actually brings the product to market. The person who brings 74 00:06:42,620 --> 00:06:49,080 Steven Weigler: the product to market can get a license for that. And so it can become a very intricate area of law. 75 00:06:49,620 --> 00:06:55,020 Steven Weigler: But ultimately, remember, it's like, what I look at when I'm, again, trying to get the client from point 76 00:06:55,020 --> 00:07:01,380 Steven Weigler: at a point, is this patent going to help build the actual value of the intellect in intellectual 77 00:07:01,380 --> 00:07:07,380 Steven Weigler: property portfolio on the company? So many people come to me, they like the idea of the patent 78 00:07:07,380 --> 00:07:12,140 Steven Weigler: and it sounds good and maybe the investors will like it. But really, is it going to add value? 79 00:07:12,700 --> 00:07:17,720 Steven Weigler: Sometimes the answer is no. And so it's not patent for patent sake. That's what I can say about pounds. 80 00:07:18,360 --> 00:07:21,200 Kevin Mako: That's good information. It's good intel as well. You've got to really look at your 81 00:07:21,200 --> 00:07:25,000 Kevin Mako: specific business, your specific product and understand what is the best. 82 00:07:25,020 --> 00:07:28,040 Kevin Mako: value, not just doing something for the sake of doing something or because you heard 83 00:07:28,040 --> 00:07:32,500 Kevin Mako: somebody else did this thing, really understanding what's the strategic play, especially as it 84 00:07:32,500 --> 00:07:37,560 Kevin Mako: pertains to an exit or growing the value. As you said, I really like how you mentioned it. Whether 85 00:07:37,560 --> 00:07:41,920 Kevin Mako: you're planning to exit or whether you're planning to grow a massive empire with your product, 86 00:07:42,340 --> 00:07:47,360 Kevin Mako: a lot of these principles still apply. But if you look at it under the mind of planning to exit, 87 00:07:47,460 --> 00:07:50,680 Kevin Mako: well, you're looking then for value. Because when you exit, you're selling to somebody and 88 00:07:50,680 --> 00:07:54,960 Kevin Mako: obviously the more value you can provide to that person, the significantly better value, 89 00:07:55,020 --> 00:07:58,740 Kevin Mako: that you're going to get for the actual product. Well, that's relatively similar to what you're thinking 90 00:07:58,740 --> 00:08:02,460 Kevin Mako: about as you grow it as well, because you're trying to grow sales, you're trying to add value to 91 00:08:02,460 --> 00:08:08,020 Kevin Mako: your customers, and you're trying to increase your intellectual property portfolio, as we're talking 92 00:08:08,020 --> 00:08:11,760 Kevin Mako: about here today. And all of these things combined, if done well, have done strategically, 93 00:08:11,760 --> 00:08:16,720 Kevin Mako: continues to increase the overall value of what somebody would pay for your product, business, 94 00:08:16,880 --> 00:08:21,200 Kevin Mako: brand, et cetera. So let's go on to some of these other ones, so it might be lesser known 95 00:08:21,200 --> 00:08:24,840 Kevin Mako: or lesser addressed, especially in the hardware world where a lot of people are focused 96 00:08:24,840 --> 00:08:30,720 Kevin Mako: on patents, but there's other elements of intellectual property that can build value to your 97 00:08:30,720 --> 00:08:36,940 Steven Weigler: hardware brand, hardware product business as well. What are those? Yeah, I mean, I think for the most 98 00:08:36,940 --> 00:08:43,920 Steven Weigler: understated and most valuable aspect of intellectual property is a trademark strategy. So trademarks 99 00:08:43,920 --> 00:08:50,620 Steven Weigler: protect brands. Apple is a brand. IBM is a brand. Lenovo. But you can go on and on and on. 100 00:08:50,620 --> 00:08:54,540 Steven Weigler: And for example, you go into Costco. 101 00:08:54,840 --> 00:09:02,600 Steven Weigler: And a consumer looks at a brand and you're not looking at, well, here's a no name or 102 00:09:02,600 --> 00:09:07,820 Steven Weigler: some brand you never heard of. And I want to buy that because the specs are a little better. 103 00:09:08,260 --> 00:09:14,540 Steven Weigler: They're like, oh, I see this Microsoft Surface or whatever the high quality brand is or the brand 104 00:09:14,540 --> 00:09:19,060 Steven Weigler: brand that people know. And they're going to usually, even if the specs are a little less than the 105 00:09:19,060 --> 00:09:24,400 Steven Weigler: no name sitting next to it, they're going to buy the piece of hardware that is known 106 00:09:24,400 --> 00:09:31,260 Steven Weigler: and a value. That's because in the consumer's mind, they know that this company has built up 107 00:09:31,260 --> 00:09:38,120 Steven Weigler: their brand and brand is identity. And identity is usually a positive experience because they put trust 108 00:09:38,120 --> 00:09:44,100 Steven Weigler: in that the quality of the product based on the brand. They could again look at the specs and say, 109 00:09:44,100 --> 00:09:51,860 Steven Weigler: well, gosh, that has an Intel X, Y, Z chip and not an Intel, you know, the top Intel chip. But that again 110 00:09:51,860 --> 00:09:54,380 Steven Weigler: is a brand play. If it were a known name chip, they would probably, 111 00:09:54,400 --> 00:09:59,800 Steven Weigler: pass it by. So the whole thing is like, it's how consumers identify with your good or 112 00:09:59,800 --> 00:10:07,600 Steven Weigler: service. So your brand is going to grow. If you're starting a company, it starts at zero. 113 00:10:07,880 --> 00:10:12,740 Steven Weigler: Your brand value starts at zero, unless you have their cure for cancer, which again, 114 00:10:12,740 --> 00:10:16,780 Steven Weigler: your clients don't want. If you have the cure for cancer, who cares what the product's called? 115 00:10:17,160 --> 00:10:22,660 Steven Weigler: Who cares what the brand experiences? It's a cure for cancer. For the rest of us, they have to 116 00:10:22,660 --> 00:10:27,380 Steven Weigler: connect something to buy the product, they have to connect some kind of name, some kind 117 00:10:27,380 --> 00:10:32,760 Steven Weigler: of identity to that product. It could be a consumer play. It could be a business to business play. 118 00:10:32,940 --> 00:10:37,860 Steven Weigler: In my case, it was a business to government play. It doesn't matter. You have to protect brand in that 119 00:10:37,860 --> 00:10:42,380 Steven Weigler: brand experience. And so generally, it's like, all right, well, what's going to be the name of the company? 120 00:10:43,220 --> 00:10:49,320 Steven Weigler: Has that name been taken? Where's your end users? And really doing a thorough search to make 121 00:10:49,320 --> 00:10:52,640 Steven Weigler: sure that you can secure that. Then the strategy. 122 00:10:52,660 --> 00:10:57,980 Steven Weigler: grows out depending you might have a suite of products. You might have a special element to your 123 00:10:57,980 --> 00:11:04,620 Steven Weigler: product. Those things all need to be brand. And so generally, and it's very inexpensive, and then 124 00:11:04,620 --> 00:11:09,740 Steven Weigler: where is it going to be? If you're sourcing from China and it's not everything's white labeled or from 125 00:11:09,740 --> 00:11:15,580 Steven Weigler: India, you have to then think about an international strategy. But all that together is your brand strategy, 126 00:11:15,700 --> 00:11:20,210 Steven Weigler: is your trademark, your brand protection strategy. You better believe that if you're thinking about 127 00:11:20,210 --> 00:11:24,390 Steven Weigler: exiting or if you're thinking about even growing value in the company, you don't know 128 00:11:24,390 --> 00:11:31,450 Steven Weigler: zero value without having a secure and thorough brand implant. I love that you bring up brand strategy 129 00:11:31,450 --> 00:11:35,930 Kevin Mako: because that's something especially as a hardware startup, they look at it and go, well, I'm not an Apple 130 00:11:35,930 --> 00:11:40,270 Kevin Mako: brand. And I don't think I'm going to be that level, at least not in the next few years, let's say. 131 00:11:40,390 --> 00:11:45,750 Kevin Mako: But what hardware startups don't realize is when we talk about brand, it doesn't mean a global 132 00:11:45,750 --> 00:11:50,290 Kevin Mako: brand that people recognize, especially as a hardware startup. This means a brand that, 133 00:11:50,310 --> 00:11:55,670 Kevin Mako: as you said, starts at zero, but starts to gain traction within your specific industry 134 00:11:55,670 --> 00:12:01,670 Kevin Mako: niche, that vertical. And that is what is actually very powerful. You look at a lot of these small 135 00:12:01,670 --> 00:12:06,490 Kevin Mako: products that maybe it's a hiking product that only is very specific for hiking in these certain 136 00:12:06,490 --> 00:12:10,790 Kevin Mako: conditions. Well, let me tell you, if you've got a great product that is really benefiting people, 137 00:12:11,190 --> 00:12:16,210 Kevin Mako: your brand value will start to take off in tremendous ways. It'll have a viral effect. 138 00:12:16,210 --> 00:12:20,290 Kevin Mako: And people that have that pain point that your problem solves start to hear about. 139 00:12:20,310 --> 00:12:25,570 Kevin Mako: that brand, start to trust that brand, and so on. So the point for a hardware startup isn't to try 140 00:12:25,570 --> 00:12:29,810 Kevin Mako: and look at brand as something that you don't need to worry about for 20 years because it'll be a long 141 00:12:29,810 --> 00:12:34,570 Kevin Mako: time before you're some massive global empire. You can start building your brand from day one 142 00:12:34,570 --> 00:12:40,170 Kevin Mako: within the very small geographical market, very specific product vertical, very specific 143 00:12:40,170 --> 00:12:44,750 Kevin Mako: pain point solution within that product vertical. Start building your brand from day one. 144 00:12:44,750 --> 00:12:50,290 Kevin Mako: And that brand within that smaller community, which of course over time will grow as your name grows, 145 00:12:50,310 --> 00:12:56,430 Kevin Mako: that is where you can really start to instrumentally put yourself out as a leader, 146 00:12:56,550 --> 00:13:00,630 Kevin Mako: as a pioneer, as a changemaker, and all these elements, everything you're doing with your business, 147 00:13:00,710 --> 00:13:05,110 Kevin Mako: especially the product itself, are adding value to your brand reputation. 148 00:13:05,610 --> 00:13:10,830 Kevin Mako: So protect that brand so that as you're adding value into the piggy bank, let's say, 149 00:13:10,870 --> 00:13:15,550 Kevin Mako: of that brand, that brand is protected and something that you can then sell to an eventual buyer, 150 00:13:15,670 --> 00:13:20,210 Kevin Mako: not only somebody who's buying your product, because they want that widget and they want that patent, 151 00:13:20,310 --> 00:13:24,310 Kevin Mako: the technology that you've developed and that you're selling, but they want the brand that surrounds 152 00:13:24,310 --> 00:13:28,150 Kevin Mako: it as well. And that will give you a much larger valuation when you're starting to put all these 153 00:13:28,150 --> 00:13:33,770 Steven Weigler: different pieces. It's so true. In two ways. Number one, it's like I participate in some Am and A and so 154 00:13:33,770 --> 00:13:38,030 Steven Weigler: that's my favorite thing is when the business number gets to that point and I've been working with 155 00:13:38,030 --> 00:13:42,250 Steven Weigler: them from the very beginning or the middle. It's fantastic. And I've worked on some litigation 156 00:13:42,250 --> 00:13:47,210 Steven Weigler: and where the brands that issue or someone ripped off the brand. It's the easiest thing to show, 157 00:13:47,210 --> 00:13:50,030 Steven Weigler: I can show the correlation between building brand and 158 00:13:50,030 --> 00:13:55,550 Steven Weigler: valuation of the company, much easier than I can generally show a patent. Sometimes a patent 159 00:13:55,550 --> 00:14:00,470 Steven Weigler: stands on its own. Yes, it does. It's like such a great invention. But the most time it's like, 160 00:14:00,750 --> 00:14:05,330 Steven Weigler: no one, a patent just protects an invention and you need it sometimes. I'm not saying anything negative 161 00:14:05,330 --> 00:14:10,030 Steven Weigler: about it, but I'm saying if you're talking about growing value, brand grows value. And the trademark 162 00:14:10,030 --> 00:14:14,130 Steven Weigler: strategy is like, how do you protect that if you don't have a registered trademark, including like, 163 00:14:14,130 --> 00:14:19,150 Steven Weigler: again, if you sell in Canada, well, this is 10% of American market? Is Canada? That's a big 164 00:14:19,150 --> 00:14:23,630 Steven Weigler: market that you don't want to ignore it. We work strategies to get the trademarks in various 165 00:14:23,630 --> 00:14:28,430 Steven Weigler: places. It's really just kind of showing the exit person, the venture capitalist or whatever, 166 00:14:28,670 --> 00:14:33,690 Steven Weigler: that you have a brand strategy. And we map that out. It's really pretty straightforward. 167 00:14:34,350 --> 00:14:38,350 Kevin Mako: Steven, just because we're short on time here a bit, I want to get to the next two as well. 168 00:14:38,350 --> 00:14:42,690 Kevin Mako: Let's talk about these last two elements of intellectual properties. We can round out the whole 169 00:14:42,690 --> 00:14:47,310 Steven Weigler: puzzle here today. Sure. So copyright protects original works of art. So almost anything can be 170 00:14:47,310 --> 00:14:49,130 Steven Weigler: copyrighted if it's original. 171 00:14:49,150 --> 00:14:54,570 Steven Weigler: So really, if you have code that drives your platform, that code can be protected through copyright. 172 00:14:55,190 --> 00:14:57,830 Steven Weigler: Sometimes it can be protected but through patent, but not generally. 173 00:14:58,150 --> 00:15:00,230 Steven Weigler: The other thing is product packaging. 174 00:15:00,890 --> 00:15:08,890 Steven Weigler: So everyone, even if it's a widget or something that's really generic that you're developing as a hardware developer, 175 00:15:09,690 --> 00:15:12,930 Steven Weigler: how you package it can be protected through copyright. 176 00:15:13,090 --> 00:15:15,630 Steven Weigler: So it's done through the United States Library of Congress. 177 00:15:15,630 --> 00:15:19,130 Steven Weigler: And there's something called the Berlin Convention, which allows, if you copyrighted some 178 00:15:19,150 --> 00:15:23,150 Steven Weigler: place, the other countries are supposed to honor that copyright. So it's really cool and 179 00:15:23,150 --> 00:15:28,710 Steven Weigler: really powerful and really cheap. So I'll leave it at that. But code can also be copyrighted. And 180 00:15:28,710 --> 00:15:34,350 Steven Weigler: any product packaging are the two most relevant. It might be some product design. We've done that, 181 00:15:34,470 --> 00:15:38,690 Steven Weigler: but it has to be looked at carefully. Because again, there's patent. There's even something 182 00:15:38,690 --> 00:15:43,470 Steven Weigler: called trade dress, which we can go into that's part of trademark. The last thing is 183 00:15:43,470 --> 00:15:48,210 Steven Weigler: something that businesses don't do very often, which is trade secret. 184 00:15:49,240 --> 00:15:53,000 Steven Weigler: Heat things that are supposed to be secret make a big deal about their secrecy. 185 00:15:53,440 --> 00:15:58,540 Steven Weigler: Coca-Cola, besides the fact that the brand is amazing, like everyone knows what Coca-Cola is. 186 00:15:58,940 --> 00:16:02,520 Steven Weigler: But one thing they've done is just keep the Coca-Cola secret. 187 00:16:02,980 --> 00:16:04,820 Steven Weigler: Eight people know it or 10 people know it. 188 00:16:05,200 --> 00:16:09,340 Steven Weigler: They sign an agreement that they're going to really sign their life away if they give up the formula. 189 00:16:09,800 --> 00:16:14,080 Steven Weigler: They get suppliers from various places that don't even know each other, and they keep the whole thing secret. 190 00:16:14,480 --> 00:16:16,860 Steven Weigler: Well, that's a big deal. You can't emulate that product. 191 00:16:17,280 --> 00:16:18,380 Steven Weigler: And I can't tell you, Kevin. 192 00:16:18,380 --> 00:16:23,940 Steven Weigler: And ultimately, and I know we're short of time, but we do all this because you can get knocked 193 00:16:23,940 --> 00:16:29,700 Steven Weigler: off. And if you get knocked off your value goes way down, you're in the dumps. And so all these 194 00:16:29,700 --> 00:16:35,600 Steven Weigler: strategies together, woven together, help you maintain first mover or strategic advantage. 195 00:16:35,800 --> 00:16:41,040 Steven Weigler: The goal is to minimize the price. We do a lot of process work, meaning we look at it just like 196 00:16:41,040 --> 00:16:48,360 Steven Weigler: engineers, how we do our legal work. So to process and deliberate strategy, we try and minimize the price 197 00:16:48,380 --> 00:16:53,960 Steven Weigler: to protect the entity while maximizing the value. And ultimately, that's when an 198 00:16:53,960 --> 00:16:59,980 Steven Weigler: entrepreneur wants is low price and maximize value. Steven, that's a great way to tie it all in 199 00:16:59,980 --> 00:17:03,860 Kevin Mako: together at the end. Look at this strategy of holistic approach, especially if you're building the 200 00:17:03,860 --> 00:17:08,460 Kevin Mako: brand, especially if you're considering exit, especially if you haven't maybe got some of these things 201 00:17:08,460 --> 00:17:13,120 Kevin Mako: as well as tightened up as they should be. Look at a smart strategy for these things. 202 00:17:13,500 --> 00:17:16,760 Kevin Mako: Work with somebody like Steven who understands the ins and out these various processes. 203 00:17:17,000 --> 00:17:18,280 Kevin Mako: And of course, that brings me up to the 204 00:17:18,380 --> 00:17:21,900 Kevin Mako: My final question here before I let you go, talk a bit about what your firm does, 205 00:17:22,240 --> 00:17:28,040 Kevin Mako: helping entrepreneurs scale up to making sure that they've got the right strategy and approach to 206 00:17:28,040 --> 00:17:33,340 Kevin Mako: all of these different elements, especially as they're growing and scaling and potentially 207 00:17:33,340 --> 00:17:35,120 Kevin Mako: looking to exit at the best valuation. 208 00:17:35,780 --> 00:17:39,400 Steven Weigler: Sure. We're a full service business and intellectual property law firm. 209 00:17:39,820 --> 00:17:46,760 Steven Weigler: Our passion is to grow businesses from inception all the way to M&A, and we have all the 210 00:17:46,760 --> 00:17:50,320 Steven Weigler: tools to be able to do that as well as connections around the world. We do a lot of 211 00:17:50,320 --> 00:17:55,480 Steven Weigler: international work. We offer free 15-minute consults and our goal for that is to really get to know 212 00:17:55,480 --> 00:18:00,780 Steven Weigler: the entrepreneur or entrepreneurial organization and really see if we can build a relationship. 213 00:18:01,020 --> 00:18:06,600 Steven Weigler: We're very relational based. We have a lot and we do a lot of fixed fee work because we, again, 214 00:18:06,920 --> 00:18:11,920 Steven Weigler: we have a lot of processes. This isn't our first rodeo. And so I've spent a lot of time 215 00:18:11,920 --> 00:18:16,580 Steven Weigler: to putting that together. If you want to know more about me, I have a really pretty built-out 216 00:18:16,580 --> 00:18:23,120 Steven Weigler: LinkedIn site. So it's Steven Weigler, W-E-I-G-L-E-R, and Steven is with a V, not P-H. 217 00:18:23,260 --> 00:18:27,960 Steven Weigler: The other thing would be, we have a thorough website also with a lot of resources on a 218 00:18:27,960 --> 00:18:35,700 Steven Weigler: resources page. It's EmergeCounsel.com, E-M-E-R-G-E-C-O-U-N-S-E-L.com. And again, I would love 219 00:18:35,700 --> 00:18:41,120 Steven Weigler: the first step of any professional relationship is get to know the client, get to know the 220 00:18:41,120 --> 00:18:43,240 Steven Weigler: entrepreneur, and I want you to get to know me. 221 00:18:43,900 --> 00:18:46,720 Kevin Mako: Steven, much appreciated for all those words of wisdom. And as always, 222 00:18:46,740 --> 00:18:50,100 Kevin Mako: I will put those links into the show notes below for anyone else who wants to click through. 223 00:18:50,560 --> 00:18:53,500 Kevin Mako: Thanks again, Steven, for being on the show, and we look forward to talking to you again. 224 00:18:53,840 --> 00:18:54,860 Kevin Mako: Thanks, Steven, and take care. 225 00:18:55,780 --> 00:18:59,340 Kevin Mako: Thanks for tuning in to this episode of the Product Startup Podcast. 226 00:18:59,900 --> 00:19:04,860 Kevin Mako: If you found some value in the show, please do us a huge favor and hit the like button and subscribe. 227 00:19:05,460 --> 00:19:10,000 Kevin Mako: If you have any questions, guest suggestions, or anything else, feel free to reach out to us 228 00:19:10,000 --> 00:19:16,420 Kevin Mako: anytime at our email, podcast at MakoDesign.com. This show is hosted by Kevin Mako, 229 00:19:16,900 --> 00:19:41,520 Kevin Mako: North America's leading expert on product development for hardware startups, and the podcast is produced by Mako Design, the original firm providing end-to-end consumer product development services tailored specifically to hardware startups, small manufacturers, and inventors. Take your product from idea to store shelves at MakoDesign.com. That's M-A-K-O-Design.com. Thanks for joining and see you again soon.