Welcome to Where Parents Talk.

My name is Leanne Castalino.

Our guest today is a clinical psychologist and a parent wellness advocate.

Dr.

Amber Thornton is also an author and a mother of two.

Her latest book is called A Parent's Guide to Self Regulation.

A Practical Framework for Breaking the Cycle of Dysregulation and Mastering Emotions for parents and children.

Dr.

Thornton joins us today from Washington.

Thank you so much for being here.

Thank you so much for having me.

I'm really excited to chat today.

What an interesting topic and certainly the first question that sort of pops into my brain when I read your the title of your book is as parents, are we currently spending too much time perhaps supporting the self regulation of our children and maybe not as much of ourselves than we should be?

That's a really great question.

And when I think about that, I wouldn't say that we're spending too much time, but I think instead we are just not realizing this other approach that we could be utilizing that serves us both ourselves and our children and really focusing on ourselves.

Because I think we missed the piece where if we ourselves don't know how to self regulate, it will be really, really hard to do that with our children.

So why not shift the focus so that both can really be prioritized?

So in order to understand this, I think it's important to maybe define some of these terms that we're talking about.

When you talk about dysregulation as it relates to a parent, can you define that for us?

So when I think dysregulation or when I say dysregulation for parenting, what I mean is any situation or circumstance or moment where you feel as a parent out of control, this could be emotionally, you might feel out of control, physically, you might feel out of control, control cognitively, or your thoughts might feel out of control.

And it's really hard to gain composure, regain balance, or really get that sense of control that you need to move through the next moment.

So that's what dysregulation for parents might look like.

And we know what that looks like for children.

We can imagine when our children are maybe out of control or having some trouble gaining some composure.

That also happens to us as well.

So I really think about physically, emotionally and cognitively, are you regulated and if not, you're probably dysregulated.

Along those lines, you call it a cycle of dysregulation.

What do you mean by that?

Yes, that's a great question too.

And it's funny, it begins before us, but we often see it with our children first.

So for instance, if our children are dysregulated, that then could lead us to become dysregulated or vice versa.

If we are dysregulated, our children are likely disregulated because they're picking up on our energy or how we're feeling.

But what I do touch on in the book is that oftentimes adults who are having trouble regulating themselves, they probably picked up some of those habits or some of that from their own parents or the adults in their environment when they were children.

So it's a cycle because generationally it can be a pattern or habits that are passed down just with regard to how we learn how to cope with our emotions or our environments.

And we can break that cycle and learn something different by really learning the proper tools to regulate ourselves.

Now, speaking about environments, we certainly, for the last several years, you could probably throw a decade in there, have lived in a very unpredictable, volatile world.

And you know, the idea of dysregulation maybe is not that much of a surprise to most people because of a lot of external circumstances, social media being among them.

So then, Dr.

Thornton, are parents being becoming increasingly dysregulated?

You know, I think we could argue yes, and I think that, you know, many professionals or people might have varying opinions about this.

But I do think that what I have found is in recent decades or this current generation, there are so many other things that we are managing.

We're tackling, like you said, social media for instance, or increased demands, limitations with regard to child care.

We talk about, you know, the sandwich generation.

We have a generation of parents who are caring for their children, but also in need of caring for their parents as well.

There are a lot of very unique circumstances and challenges that are occurring in this generation that makes parenting even more challenging.

And so yes, we could argue that dysregulation is happening a lot more frequently because there are more demands, more responsibilities, more things that take our attention or divide our attention with, with less support and less help.

So what then can a parent do to improve their own self regulation as adults?

Wonderful question too.

I think the very first thing is awareness.

And that's why I love that we're having these conversations because you first have to be aware of the problem in order to tackle it, in order to, to fix it, in order to know what to do about it.

So one, education is, is key.

Really learn about this, listen to this podcast, read the book so you can disregulation.

And then what does it look like when it's happening for me, once you really have a good sense of what's going on, how it's manifesting for you, I then recommend three different approaches.

And as I outline in my book, I actually call it the PCR method.

And it is being very practical, being conscious, and also being really realistic about what's going on for you and how to approach it.

So one, practicality.

What are some practical strategies that you can implement into your day to day that will help you to cope better, that will support you better?

For some parents, this might be realizing they need more child care support.

For other parents, this might be realizing they need to set better limits or boundaries in their family or even with their children.

Practically, what needs to happen so that you feel better?

Number two is conscious.

How can we help you to become more self aware of yourself, your emotions, how you're being impacted by your day to day?

And you know, to be honest, some of these things we cannot change.

But that awareness is so key because with awareness, awareness brings a better sense of knowing of what's going on and how you're being impacted.

So how can you become more aware of what's going on around you and how it's impacting you?

And then what does that mean for you?

And then lastly, realistically, how can you radically accept the things that you maybe cannot change about this, this moment or the season of your life?

I love having that conversation with parents because parenting is hard.

It's very challenging.

There are so many ups and downs.

But what can we do to help you better accept or better face the challenges that you're experiencing?

That means talking about resilience or talking about, you know, just, just really accepting the things that are happening right now instead of fighting against them.

How would you go about articulating the importance of a parent prioritizing their own self regulation in light of what you described about the impact of the on their kids if they don't self regulate as parents?

How can you illustrate that for us.

This is so important?

Because often what, what happens, I see parents who come in and they want to talk to me and the focus is really, you know, my child is having these issues, my child is having these concerns.

We don't know what to do about it.

And sometime there's this resistance to really shift the focus.

But I really like to help parents understand that we are our children's biggest influencer, biggest source of support.

But also they learn so much from us.

Even if they're teenagers and they don't want to admit it, they receive a Lot of knowledge and guidance from us.

And so what I help parents understand first is how their children are learning to navigate their world and their emotions.

Also says a little bit about how we are doing that too.

Sometimes there's this parallel process that we see because our children are picking up on those patterns and those habits.

Once a parent is able to really get that connection and see how much they really are influencing their child, it helps them then to understand that, hey, if I might be struggling with some of these things, or if I haven't yet talked to someone about the challenges, or I haven't really just taken a look at what's going on for me, my child may not learn the proper ways to do this themselves.

And we don't want that.

Unfortunately, what can happen is that a child may not learn the proper ways to regulate themselves.

They may not learn the proper ways to express themselves or express their emotions.

We might see some emotional repression or suppression, and we don't want that for our children.

But also sometimes what I've seen happen and what I help parents to try to reverse as well, is that if we are so dysregulated, that can make us tense, anxious, it can make us argumentative, irritable, and that can also impact the relationship with our children.

It can really interfere with our ability to show up lighter, more playful, or more open.

And it's hard to listen to your child when you're dysregulated.

It's hard to be warm and fuzzy when you're dysregulated.

And so really helping parents to see that one, our children first learn from us.

And so the more that we are equipped, the better they will be equipped.

But also the more that we are read, regulated and have those tools, it fosters a more positive, warm and gentle environment and relationship with our kids too.

Along those lines, Dr.

Thornton, are there certain trends that you've observed in your practice as it relates to parents, children, self regulation and dysregulation?

That's a really great question too.

And I do say I think this question kind of reminds me of what we talked about previously.

There is so much happening up here in our brains for this generation.

And I hate to blame social media, because I love social media.

I love it.

I love the connections that we can make.

I love how we can find information quickly.

But access to information and the readily available Internet really kind of fills our brains a lot more.

And so we are just a lot more full.

I'm hearing and seeing these words of overwhelm, overstimulation, Happening a lot more frequently when I don't know if we really heard those words as often in the past.

And so I think that's really the trend that I'm seeing.

There's this thing called overwhelm and overstimulation that then leads to dysregulation because our schedules are full, our plates are full, our brains are full.

And it's a really big dilemma because many of us are accustomed to living in this very fast paced manner that is just so full.

It's hard to imagine how we maybe start to scale back or start to implement different supports because, you know, sometimes it might feel like our environments are not supportive of the lifestyle we need or the slow pace that we need.

So I think that's one trend that I'm seeing.

There's just this concern of our livelihoods or our lifestyles really require this very fast paced fullness that can be really uncomfortable and overwhelming at times.

What then would you say was the impetus, the catalyst for you to write this book?

You know, I love telling this story because it, it shares a little bit about myself personally.

And, and really it is that, yes, I'm a psychologist, I work with parents and I work with children, but I'm also a person too, and I'm a parent as well.

I'm an imperfect parent.

And so prior to writing this book, I had not yet had the vocabulary for emotional regulation, dysregulation when it came to myself as a parent.

And I soon realized with my first child, I really was very overwhelmed.

I was very irritable at times, very frustrated, but also very anxious.

And then it just kind of amplified once I had my second.

And there was a moment where my son was in the bathroom and I realized he was playing in the bathroom, but playing with the plunger.

And I just flipped out because it made me so angry.

But really under that anger was anxiety and fear and worry about his safety and what he was doing.

And it came out in this way that just did not demonstrate the care, but rather it scared him.

And so me, a parent who has had trouble with yelling and being irritable and being anxious is, is really the impetus of what helped me write this book.

Realizing that I had an issue that I needed to work on.

I wanted to be more grounded, I wanted to be more balanced.

I wanted to be more self composed and learning how to do that myself, but then wanting to share that with other parents too.

You know, the example that you share, Dr.

Thornton, is relatable certainly to many parents who will listen to and Watch this interview because it is something that can happen in everyday life, in the mundane tasks of everyday life that we go through as parents.

Could you take us through the process that you undertook in writing this book because it is described as an evidence based practical guide?

What did that look like in terms of your research methods?

Absolutely.

The summer before this book was published, I was able to conduct a research study and I talked to 175 parents, so grateful and lucky to have had access to that group of people and to really communicate with them.

All of them completed some surveys for me, and then I also completed some smaller focus groups with many of those parents to really ask them, what is this regulation to you?

What does this look like?

What does this feel like?

What do, what is your day to day like?

What are some of the parenting mistakes that you've made?

What is overwhelm?

What is overstimulation?

What does that look like for you?

And I got so much information about this process and this, these experiences.

And so through that research, I was really able to get a better sense of what parents today are struggling with, with regard to dysregulation, overwhelm, overstimulation.

But then also what were the tools or the coping skills that they needed to feel better and to do better.

I learned a little bit about what actually does help them, but then also the day to day things that hinder their progress too.

And so putting all that information together was really what helped me to figure out what could help parents like me and like many of them today with this issue.

And I'm so grateful to have been able to do that research because it, you know, I can't write the book based on my own experience.

I need to be able to know what's going on for these parents and what is it, what is it that they need.

Along those lines, then, what struck you most in that research phase, what you found interviewing those parents, looking at those surveys and sort of pouring over all of this information?

Right.

Two things.

One, there was a very, very high percentage of parents who struggle with emotional dysregulation, physical, cognitive dysregulation, every single day, Every single day.

And I, you know, I think it was a close to 70% of the parents that I talked to said that they have severe challenges with regulating themselves on a day to day basis.

That really shocked me because that's not something that we talk about.

We, we typically are talking about our children and their tantrums or our teenagers and their, their moods, you know, and their inability to, to shift.

We don't talk a lot about parents and the challenges that they're having with regulating their own beings while also trying to do that with their children.

So it really surprised me that so many parents were able to identify this in themselves.

But I think the other thing that was very striking was the shame and the embarrassment, the guilt that they identified.

So a lot of the questions I have for them was what feelings do you feel when this is happening?

Or how does this make you feel to struggle with this?

And guilt, shame, embarrassment, isolation, these were all very big emotions that parents are experiencing on a day to day.

And I know from my work as a psychologist, when we are wrestling with big emotions like that, it makes things feel hard on top of the big job of parenting.

And so I.

Those were the two things, how often this is happening, but then also the, the emotional low that comes with it that parents feel about it.

That's really interesting.

And also the fact that you took your own lived experience, your, your knowledge as an expert, as a, as a clinical psychologist in, you took the research that you did with all these various parents and you know, all of it goes into your book.

How has that impacted how you parent currently?

And we should mention that you've got two little ones, five and three years old.

So that's a very intense, you know, stage of parenting where they've got tons of energy and they're asking a lot of questions.

And you know, the example you provided, again, we can all relate to that.

So how did you go about putting what you've written about, researched into practice in your own home?

You know, I, and I, I'm not just saying this, I've said this before.

This book, writing this book changed my life.

And you know, I still feel very new in my parenting practice.

I've only been a parent for five years and I know I have so much more to go.

But the parent I was prior to this book, even becoming a thought is so different from the parent I am today.

And I feel that writing this book and understanding some of the tools and the strategies that parents need, the writing process, helped me to implement some of that into my day to day life.

It was almost like, well, let me test this first to see how it feels and then let's share it with the world.

In this book, it changed me tremendously.

It gave me this deeper sense of awareness around what's impacting me, what I need as a parent, but also helped me to touch base with who I want to be as a parent, how I want to show up.

It also Gave me this greater sense of grace and compassion for myself as a parent, because I, you know, not only was I able to hear from the parents, the 175 of them, who let me know the emotions that they toil with every day, but I was able to realize, oh, wow, I, I have felt some of that too.

And I think we need more grace and compassion because this is such a big job.

But then also it helped me to realize that there are seasons in this parenting journey.

Some will be harder than others, and, and things also evolve, just like we can evolve as parents.

But then I think just a greater appreciation for how our imperfections in parenting can also really help to strengthen the bonds with our kids.

I think so often we are so afraid of making mistakes.

And I've, I've made several.

I, you know, I've made a lot.

But being able to recognize that, learn how to apologize, how to repair some of those ruptures has given me more confidence in knowing, hey, if I make another mistake, we can fix this.

And it does, doesn't take away from or ruin any bond that I have with my kids.

It'll just strengthen it even more.

It's interesting that you mentioned perfection, because in talking to different experts on any number of different parenting related topics, that whole idea of striving for perfection comes up as something that we should all try to avoid, certainly in raising kids.

Are there any other common pitfalls, Dr.

Thornton, that you can point to that would prevent a parent from addressing their own dysregulation?

I, I think one of them you just mentioned.

And so we'll highlight again, the perfection, that fear of perfection, the, the desire to be perfect, I think comes from this fear that, well, if I mess up, I'm gonna ruin something, or if I make a mistake, then I'm gonna mess up the relationship with my kid.

I find that that belief in particular is so common with this current generation of parents.

We are so afraid to ruin our relationship or rapport with our children.

And so I think that's one pitfall.

Just fear, fear around parenting and what can happen and the mistakes that we can make and the impact they might have.

I also think another barrier could be, again, fear.

A lot of it is fear, but this fear of really going internal and addressing some of your own needs or some of your own wounds.

In the book, I talk a lot about reparenting and, and that is so useful for really any adult who have found that they maybe have some unmet needs from childhood that their parents now will not resolve.

Realistically and it's not because their parents don't want to.

Maybe their parents are, have passed away or, you know, now just you're an adult and some of this is kind of on you now, but really just that process of going in and really addressing any ling.

Traumas or emotional wounds that need to be dealt with, because often when those go unmet or are not attended to, that can really leave us to be very dysregulated.

I also think there's this fear of judgment and criticism that happens a lot with parents and that interferes with our ability to do this work as well, because it essentially means you have to be honest with yourself, but then also being honest with other people about what you're working on and where your downfalls are or, or areas of growth for you, whether it's with a therapist or a friend or your partner or even your child.

Admitting that you are human and you're going to make mistakes and that you are progressing through something can be hard, but we have to do it to do this work.

What would you say to a parent who perhaps has identified and is self aware about their own dysregulation, but perhaps their spouse or their partner is not on the same level as them, is not at the same point as them, and now together this unit is trying to parent their child, kind of seemingly working in, in sort of different spheres and in, you know, contradictory, certainly.

How can that be addressed to the success of, of that child and how that child is being raised?

It's funny, I just had a book signing and in the Q and a portion that same question came up.

You know, it was a, a parent who had purchased the book and they're going to work on this, but their part I in the same place.

And so the question was, what do I do about that?

How do I encourage them to join me in this path?

And so what I, what I said was that it can be so tempting to try to pull your partner in and you all do this together, but realistically, sometimes that will not be our reality.

That's disappointing.

That is frustrating.

It can be very irritating.

Ideally, it will be amazing if you both could do this together.

And sometimes that will not be the case because you're two different people and, and two different people will have two different parenting approaches or processes or evolve in a manner that maybe just is different from the other.

And so what I said is that the very best thing you could do is to really focus on yourself as you are taking in this information, because it's also still new for you.

We really can't encourage or motivate or support other people in a task if we have not yet done it for ourselves.

The very first step is making sure that you have mastered this for yourself.

Read this book, do this work for yourself, because you will benefit, and it'll be a ripple effect.

Of course your child will benefit because it'll benefit the relationship that you are cultivating with your child.

But your partner will probably start to get a sense of what you're doing.

They will notice.

It will impact them too.

And maybe it may push them further along in their journey.

But this has to be something that they come to.

It doesn't mean that you can't share or, you know, reflect with them.

You can absolutely do that.

But I want you to really focus on this journey that you are on.

And the more you're in it, the more engaged you are in that process.

You will see that it'll start to ripple and others will become curious and want to know too.

And hopefully that'll motivate them and encourage them simply by you just doing your own work.

It certainly sounds like role modeling for the other.

For the other member of the family, the other partner or the husband, wife, et cetera.

Dr.

Thornton, what do you hope readers of your book leave with?

I would love readers of the book to.

To feel a little bit of what I have been feeling.

You know, I said that writing the book really changed my life.

It helped me to feel more confident, to feel more reassured in this process of parenting, to.

To know that it's okay for me to not be perfect.

I want them to feel that too.

I want more parents to feel more confident, to be comfortable making mistakes.

I want them to have the tools that they need to combat emotional disregulation.

But also I want them to feel like they're able to cultivate the relationships that they want with their children.

I know that we want to be connected with our children.

We want to be close to our children.

We want that.

That rapport that feels just so good for both of us.

And sometimes it can feel like our emotions or our inability to regulate ourselves might interfere with that or disrupt that.

I want.

Want the reader to feel like they're on a path of maintaining and cultivating a successful, happy, healthy relationship with their children and that they also now have the tools to navigate life challenges.

Parenting challenges themselves too.

Well, you've certainly provided us tremendous food for thought.

Dr.

Amber Thornton, clinical psychologist and author of A Parent's Guide to Self Regulation.

We so appreciate your time and your insight today.

Thank you so much.

Thank you.