As we're all aware, there is so much occurring within the black community, uh, not all of it positive and how we're, how blacks are viewed in this country. And the fact that we're, we're going back to practically Jim Crow, uh, stuff, it just is mind boggling to me. And I don't want. I want to do my part to change that.

We'll discuss race and how it plays a factor, and how we didn't even talk about this topic, because we were afraid.

A black executive perspective.

Welcome to a black executive perspective podcast, a safe space where we discuss all matters related to race, especially race in corporate America. I'm your host, Tony tidbit. So as we always do in the beginning of our episodes, don't forget to check out our partners, CODE M Magazine, whose mission is saving the black family by first saving the black man. Check them out at CODE M Magazine. Speaking of Code M, Code M Magazine stands as a pivotal resource for black men enriching their lives and those of their families, friends, coworkers, and the communities. Avoiding standard men's magazine topics, They instead focus on vital but often overlook issues such as intimacy, emotions, relationships, identity, and broader societal challenges. CODE M's articles are crafted to enlighten, challenge, and uplift, promoting personal growth and deeper understanding. In today's episode, we are joined by David Crystal, Managing Editor at CODE M, who will share insights on the magazine's origins and its impact, as well as the community's reception to CODE M's mission of empowering the Black family by empowering Black men. Let me tell you a little bit about David. David, a former dancer based in New York, he transitioned from the dance, his dance career in 1986 to become a specialist in computer based training, developing projects for leading corporations and the military. Simultaneously, he served as a counselor for persons with AIDS, focusing on end of the life and wellness issues. In the early 1990s, David was appointed Director of the Creative Department for Tony Robbins. Since 1995, he has been a prolific ghostwriter and editor of books. David is the author of Married Men Coming Out. The ultimate guide to becoming the man you were born to be, and is set to publish two additional books this year. David Christel, welcome to a Black Executive Perspective Podcast, my brother.

Thank you, Tony. It's nice to be here.

Well, buddy, we're really excited that you're here and it's great to have, you know, the person, the brains behind the magic at CODE M Magazine. So we definitely want to listen and hear more about the recipes and stuff that you put together to make the magazine so compelling and more importantly, helping to transform lives, uh, within the black community. But before we go there, my friend, why don't you tell us a little bit about where you currently residing in. a little bit about your family.

Well, um, my partner, Richard and I live in Reno, Nevada. And the reason we're living here is that we were in Los Angeles and Richard's company decided to move to Reno because it's in the process of being sold and there's a better tax scenario here. But, um, Richard and I have been together for 14 years. We have known each other those 17 years old. So that's 54 years. Wow. Uh, 53 years. Okay. Now, you know, math is not my best subject.

Well, I mean, 12 months is not a big deal. But, but buddy, you look great, though. I'll be honest with you. That, you know, that's a great blessing. You've, you've, uh, matured well, I should say.

Cool. Thank you very much. Um, as a dancer, I was very, uh, Focused on my health and being able to really use my body as optimally as possible. So I never smoked. I never did drugs amazingly, you know, growing up in the sixties and seventies. And, um, I wasn't much of a drinker. Um, and I stayed out of the sun and so, um, I've just really taken care of myself. I have a great diet. Richard is a terrific cook, so he really takes care of us and, you know, we just do all the things that keep us in shape, like going to the gym at least three times a week, so.

That is awesome, my friend. So why did you want to come on a Black Executive Perspective to talk about this topic?

Well, um, there. There's a lot going on in the world, but specifically about our own country, we seem to be backsliding. And there are a lot of reasons as to why that's happening. And I never thought in my lifetime that I'd see us going in this direction again. And I've always grown up with the idea that we are either the solution or we're the problem. And so I want to be part of the solution. When I met Bilal, a Um, I knew that black men, and by extension black people, Women and families and communities need to have their voice heard. They need to be understood more clearly. And as we're all aware, there is so much occurring within the black community. Uh, not all of it positive and how we're, how Blacks are viewed in this country. And the fact that we're, we're going back to practically Jim Crow, uh, stuff, it just is mind boggling to me. And I don't want to, I want to do my part to change that. And change people's perceptions. Part of what is occurring with CODE M is that not only are black readers in our audience, um, grasping what we're about. A lot of people of other colors and white people are really finding. Well, we have to offer of interest to them because it's expanding the conversation. It's providing insight. And we, we want people to truly understand what's going on in the minds of specifically black men. So we stop operating according to misguided perceptions and the perceptions that other people are purposely leading us to that don't in positively inform our communities.

Got it, my brother. So, I mean, look, I love it. You've already started, you know, diving into what we're going to talk about. So, are you ready to talk about it, David? Yeah. Okay, buddy. Let's talk about it. So, let's back up a little bit because I, I, I, we're definitely going to go into and, and provide a deeper perspective. Um, on CODE M and, and you spoke a little bit in terms of why you guys are, why you start, why you, what you're looking to accomplish with the magazine. But I want, we want to learn a little bit more about you first, okay? So you've had a, you've, you've been very blessed through a lot of tragic in your life. Can you speak to that a little bit?

Um, sure. Um, I, I have two older brothers, but I didn't find this out until I was, Turning 60 years old, um, I was immediately given up for adoption as a baby. The reason, uh, is that we three boys were taken away from our birth parents by the state of Colorado because our birth parents were so violent. Both my older brothers have brain damage because of that being around them and neither of them can read or write. So, um, I Spent the first four years of my life living in six foster homes and four adoption agencies. I was being sexually abused during at age three. Then I got adopted at age four by a violent family. And so somehow I was going to work through this whole thing about how not to be as a, as a human being. Around age three, I contracted polio, so I was in leg braces and, um, on crutches. And when I got adopted, that my adopted family was living on a farm initially. So one of the things I had to do in crutches and on, and my braces is milk the cows in the morning. So what I would do is I had a little red flyer. Um, wagon and I would tie a rope around the handle, tie the handle, tie the rope around my waist. And once I milked the cow, I would put the milk pail into my little red flyer and then drag that over to where we had to deposit all that milk. No matter what kind of weather it was, um, and it could get quite cold in Colorado. And that's what I grew up with. And when I was about, Six years old. I read an article about Wilma Rudolph, the Olympic track champion. And when I read that she had had polio and now she was a three time gold medalist in track. She became my first hero. And I knew I wanted to excel like she had and get out of my crutches. And, um, my braces. So I, but, uh, in 1962, our family moved to Grand Junction, or moved to Fort Collins, Colorado. I was out of my braces and no longer used crutches, but I was one. Skinny little waifu of a kid, and our doctor said, you know, we got to do something to fatten David up, and he had, his first suggestion was that I needed to have warm milkshakes, which I was all for, and the other one was to get involved in some kind of physical activity. Well, you can imagine, I, couldn't run very well. Um, my left leg was still very twisted and I just happened to see in the newspaper, um, an ad for a summer gymnastics camp. I begged my parents to please let me go. Play, pay the 15 and let me do that camp. When I walked in there, it was like a movie. The place stopped and just stared at this skinny little kid and the coach came over and asked me if I was in the right place and I said, yes. And he's looking at my legs. Going, um, this, you know, I don't think you're going to do very well here, and I said, I've, I've, I've got to do this. By the end of that summer, I could do front rolls and back rolls, and my left leg was starting to straighten out. And then, um, when I was 12 years old, I got raped and beaten to a pulp by two men. And for the next seven years, two to three times a week, those two men and a whole group of other men would do whatever they wanted to me. And needless to say, I developed a phenomenal distrust of adults. And, um, I went to the Monsignor of our church to tell him what had happened when I was raped at 12, because I knew he knew the two perpetrators. And in less than five minutes, he told me it was my fault. Be sure to go to confession. Otherwise, I was going to hell.

Can you stop right there for a second, David? I don't mean to interrupt you, but just so I just want to make sure we're all following along here. Um, you were sexually abused when you were 12 years old. Um, and, and these individuals, I, I don't know, were they working at the church? Were they part of the church or they're just part of the community?

They were part of my church and they were also in a production of the music band that I was in.

Got it. So, so they're a part of the church. You tell the, the, the, the priest. What's going on? And then he condemns you at 12 years old in terms of the horrific things that you were dealing with. Um, and then he said that you were going to go to hell and didn't, if I'm, and I didn't mean to cut you off, but did those individuals get ever, were they ever held accountable?

Um, years later, one of them died from AIDS. And the other one, amazingly, ended up in the state pen, uh, in Colorado for child molestation.

Well, yeah, I, so yeah, later in life, you know, but what I'm saying at the church, why were they ever held accountable? So most likely they ended up doing something similar to other boys as well. Would you, would you agree with that? Okay.

Yeah. So as far as I know, they, um, the Monsignor of my church never told anybody. He never talked to my parents, uh, never helped out in any way. And, um, I was devastated when he told me it was my fault. And, uh, so I just turned my back on the church at that time. So I'm done. I continued to sing in the, in the church choir and I, the nuns and I were really good friends, but I was done with Monsignor and I was done with the Catholic church. I, I couldn't see why I would stick around for support and look for support from them.

So. You know, you contracted polio, couldn't walk straight, got, went to a gym, asked your parents to allow you to read, read about Wilma Rudolph, who also for our audience, who may not know Wilma, Wilma Rudolph also had polio and she ended up overcoming it and ended up becoming winning the Olympics in track and field, I think it was in 1960, So there is a lot of information about her that you can find on our website at www. fema. gov. Be well. Uh, I think it was 1960 Rome Olympics, right? Yes. Yes.

And she was, she was called La Tornada.

And what is La Tornado? The Tornado. Okay. So she ended up, and I believe it was a hundred, a hundred meter dash or something that nature. I could be wrong.

She won three events. So she was the first woman to win three consecutive gold medals.

Exactly. And she had polio. Okay. And you looked at her, looked at her as a hero. Right. Because she had the same type of disease and overcame it. So then you kind of felt that you could be overcome this disease as well. Is that correct? Yes. Right. And then gotten to gymnastics and, and, and all of a sudden you're flipping and jumping and your leg straightens out. So you, you were able to conquer that because one of the things also, And I spoke about it in your bio. You became a dancer. Okay.

Well, before, before that, I had, when I graduated high school, I lettered in gymnastics,

think about that for a second. Okay. So, but hold on. I don't want to diminish, uh, uh, miss, uh, or, um, you know, um, um, minimize what you also had to deal with, with sexual abuse. And then you go tell somebody and then they, they condemn you. And so that's a lot to deal with as a child. Okay. From a medical, uh, uh, disease and then also physical abuse. Um, so my friend, and then you're able, as we, as we spoke about your bio, you ended up, um, writing books, you ended up. In the military, you ended up working with Tony Robbins. You ended up, and now you've been managing editor of CODE M Magazine. And there's a ton of other stuff that you have accomplished in your life, my friend. So for our audience is listening. To number one, thank you for being so vulnerable. Okay. Cause most people, this, these are tough, tough things that you dealt with. And most people would probably want to keep them to themselves and rightfully. So, so tell us a little bit, if you don't mind, how did you come up with the mindset? to overcome those things and maybe you still struggle with them, but talk a little bit about, you know, what, how did you, uh, muster up the strength to continue to move forward?

Well, it's been a lifelong process. Um, I have done plenty of therapy, both individual and group therapy for adults molested as children. And I, I had developed a tremendous amount of hate for the gay community. And for, um, against my adoptive parents, cause we had a terrible relationship. Um, I was stabbed. I was repeatedly suffocated as a child, um, beaten to a pulp all the time. and berated as being less than everybody else on a constant basis. Every day I was told how stupid I was. And so I became a very fearful child, but conversely, I had this will to survive. So my ego stepped in and I became, well, I am a Leo. So I became the worst aspects of Leo and, uh, just. Oversized, um, personality. I stayed out of the house as much as I could because I couldn't stand it there and got involved in theater. And I ended up, uh, teaching ice skating at the, uh, ice skating rink on Colorado State University campus. And I managed the ice skating rink there. And I was in community productions and I, I just did everything I could to stay away. I was in Boy Scouts. Um. And I just, I kept fighting, but emotionally I was in so much turmoil and pain. And I, I had such a skewed understanding of how the world worked. I, and I, I did not feel that the world was on my side.

And rightfully so. I can definitely, I would, I can empathize. I wouldn't think the world would be on my side either. Let this back up a second, because you said you, you, you, you, uh, You gained a lot of hate for the gay community. Why was that?

Well, um, uh, if you do the math being raped two to three times a week for seven years, that's a lot of rape. And I. I got so emotionally, um, messed up, skewed, um, from that and what the men did to me on a repeated basis that I blamed it all on gay men and the gay community. And yet it took me until I was about 17 to realize that I'm actually gay. But then there was the whole church thing that came into place saying that, you know, being a gay person, you're obviously going to hell. I thought my, my world was so bad that I didn't want to be in it anymore. So at age 17, I put a knife in my chest. It glanced off my sternum, and I have a scar right here from it. Um, and I, it obviously didn't work. So what I did was I took every pill in our house, including my mother's, my stepmother, my foster, God, I can't talk. My adopted mother's hysterectomy, hysterectomy medicine. And I ended up two weeks in the hospital, deathly ill. My adoptive family did not come visit me once. The entire time I was there. But who did show up was my partner, Richard, whom I had met at age 17. His father, he and his father came to visit me. And his Dad was phenomenal and he led a meditation group. And so I started going to that meditation group and that was really the beginning of the turnaround for me when I realized that there was much more to life than when I was experiencing in that. And this took a while to really, uh, ground to was the idea that everything that happens to me in my life actually happens for my benefit. It's how I perceive it and what I make of it, the meaning that I give it. So, like I said, it took years to really, truly understand what all that meant. And then all the pain that I went through, both physically and emotionally has made me the person I am today. It allowed me to also be of service to other people who understand the pain that they were going through and, and knowing that we had something in common, that I wasn't just all talk. I had been through it, and so I actually could support them in their process of healing. But like I said, it's been a lifelong process.

Buddy, number one, thank you for sharing. Number two, you know, I, I, I have no words, um, to be fair. Um, you epitomize what strength is. You epitomize in terms of taking horrendous things that happen to you. Dealing with them and, and, and focusing and, and turning your life into a positive, my brother. Uh, and you, you wrote a book, okay, if I remember correctly, um, about, you know, your life, the gay community. And I would imagine that helped a lot of people who they might not have dealt with the same things that you specifically dealt with, but they probably dealt whatever they were dealing with. Hearing your story is probably helped them really overcome their situations and hopefully made them, um, want to live. But then also made them be willing to accept themselves as who they are and still be proud of what, who they are

and vice versa, because we all help each other. We're all in this together as far as I'm concerned, and that's part of my spiritual background is realizing that we are deeply interconnected and that when we enter, when we. interface with each other heart to heart, soul to soul, as I say, then we are, it's not a one way street. We're, we're supporting each other. So I learned a huge amount from others that I was, uh, supporting. Um, Um, they helped me gain a better perspective on my life challenges and help me to reach even more deeply into an understanding of who I am and what my, what I feel my purpose in life is.

So speaking of how we're all connected. How did you get involved with Code M? So how did that connection happen? Okay. From the dancer, the Tony Robbins to Bilal Akram and Brad, uh, Bowling, you know, the, the publisher CEO and the president of Code M magazine.

Well, I was in Cleveland. Uh, working on a book, ghostwriting a book for a client of mine. And I had written an article for Alexander Boone's magazine. It's a women's magazine. And, uh, one of the people on her staff said there is this new magazine starting out. I think they'd be interested in, you know, publishing one of your articles. So I contacted Bilal. And we decided to get together for lunch. We hit it off. Um, I was captivated by his idea for this magazine that would speak to black men. And we, we were on the same wavelength. And we didn't want something like another, Um, GQ or Playboy or anything like that. What we wanted was to reach into the minds and hearts of black men and help transform them to give them insights, to give them inspiration, to uplift them, to see that they are more than, than what they may see of themselves. So we want to present issues and topics that a lot of men don't want to talk about.

Right. Yeah. No, no, finish your thought. And then I have a question.

Oh, so it's, Bilal and I being on the same page, we knew we wanted to work together. So he asked me to come on board and I said, yes. And that was seven, eight years ago.

The rest is history. We should say, right. Yeah. But just backing up what you said, right. Um, in terms of the content, the goal of CODE M. was to, you know, help Black men, inspire Black men, and help them realize and see themselves as champions and stuff to that nature. Based on what you've been through in your life, could you relate to that? Um, That mission that because you've went through, and it's not apples versus apples, right? Right. But at the end of the day, it's still about trying to help someone be able to see that they're better than what they may think. And at the end of the day, there's still things that they can accomplish at a high level within themselves and within their community. So was there, was, was there a part of a connection based on some of the things that you went through that made you say, Hey, I want to be a part of this?

Well, I understand people being suppressed. Um, what I went through, uh, my adoptive family was constantly putting me down and berating me, like I said. And just tell me, day in and day out, I was stupid. Mm hmm. And building my adoptive sister up. Saying that she was amazing because she was constantly getting straight A's. And I, so I understand from that perspective of, of a family or another person or society putting you down, saying that you are less than, I can't stand that stuff. So I want to do something to do my part in helping to shift that around. So you look at this face and you'd say, yeah, you're a white boy. Yeah, but nobody knows that my birth mother is Mexican and Cherokee. But that's why I wear these earrings. I always have but the thing and I didn't find this out until 2013 but I I want to help people I don't care what your color is, what your background is. I want you to have a voice. I want you to be heard. I want you to be understood and seen. And the fact that society tells you that you're not worthy or deserving. Are you kidding me? Please. So I want to do what I can to help turn that around. Um, and so the magazine's always looking for, uh, new, um, journalists, authors. writers to add to what we've already done in seven, eight years. Um, there are voices we haven't heard. I want to give them a chance. I want to give them a leg up if we can, um, and get them out there in the public so that others see and hear them. And, you know, we don't have it all. We don't, we can't see it all. We, we can't envision it all. Others are part of that process. So we want them to, we want to engage with them.

Got it. Got it. So the mission, and I spoke to it at the beginning of our episode, the mission of CODE M is to, you know, transform the lives of men, Black men, right? Yeah. Um, talk a little bit as being the managing editor, talk, tell us, share with us a little bit about some of the topics that you cover to help, you know, complete that mission.

Well, you know, there are some real basics that need to be approached, such, such as relationships. Sexuality, business, music, the arts, health, all of these things come into play. They're all a part of our lives to some degree. And either we're dealing with those issues or we know of someone who is dealing with issues. Um, and we want to present it in a way that lets you know that you're one, you're not alone and two, it's something that you can. solve or resolve either within yourself or with the help of other people. So we constantly put out there, uh, resources to let people know that if you're dealing with this particular issue or subject, here's a resource for you. Of course, with the internet and Google, it's so easy to find some of these things, but it can be a jungle. And just like if, If you want to, uh, work with a therapist, how do you find the right therapist? Right. Not every therapist is going to be the right one for you. As a gay man, if I work with a therapist who doesn't, who is anti LGBTQ? Ehhh. That's not going to work for me. Now, probably not, no, but you know, I might work with that individual on the side to understand where they're coming from and to see if we can open, uh, their mind.

Speaking of open minds, what's some of the feedback that you're getting from, from the audience in terms of the magazine, the content, the articles?

People love what we are presenting. They want us to keep it up. So I think one of the most remarkable things I've heard, um, Bilal and Brad told me this was that they were at a big convocation of some sort and some. White people came up to them or a white guy came up to him and said, I love your magazine. Would you do a white version for us now? As soon as I heard that the irony did not escape me.

What was the white person? I mean, white version be cosmopolitan.

Uh, I mean, Oh, my God. I just laughed, almost fell out of my chair, but this is the kind of impact we're having on, uh, for our readership is that they want more and we're expanding the number of pages that we have by, um, in putting in more articles and really looking at the issues that we are facing, like we have a national election coming up in November. Right. What are the issues that we need to address? To help people understand what's really going on and to make an informed decision as to how they want to vote or who they want to support. Um,

let me ask you, I'm sorry, buddy. I just want to ask you this because I don't want to miss this part in terms of the issues, um, that you guys write about in the magazine. Okay. Yeah. Are there some, some, some themes that, that, uh, uh, people gravitate more to versus others? Can you tell us a little bit about that?

You know, I don't think I have an answer for you on that one. Okay. I know that health is always important. Okay. Um, and there's so much to health to look at, um, finances. Uh, dating and how dating is changing, how relationships are changing because, you know, the, I, the old model of you get married, have children and grandchildren isn't necessarily working anymore. Right. We have individuals who are married, but they live in separate cities. That's what works best for them. Right. Right. Living together. No. But they do want to be married and they love each other. Well, that's not traditional.

No, it's not. Well, it's, it's, it's 2024, right? This is, you know, things evolve and people change. Um, you, so obviously you guys all. And I want to say all, but the majority of you participate in terms of writing articles. Bilal writes some articles, Brad writes articles, you know, I, I read one of your articles and it really blew me away. Um, and, and the article was called what is true freedom, right? Everybody, everyone has their own idea of what freedom is. Can you, can you, number one, share, tell us why did you, why you wrote that article and, and, and talk about some of the other articles that you wrote and why do you write them?

Well, you know, it may seem kind of odd for a white guy to be writing some of these, these on these subjects, but I try to keep as balanced perspective as possible when I work on these. Um, again, it's about expanding a person's understanding of what's actually going on in our world. Mm-Hmm. So when I wrote about freedom, I thought as a black person in this country. You have a very different understanding of what freedom is than this white boy here. But I also went through my version of, of struggling for freedom. Correct. Correct. And that's not everybody's experience. There are people who have had my experiences. It's horrific to hear about. If we don't put that information out there, then people are going to live in their own little worlds. Their own little universes with whatever perceptions they have about what's going on. And unfortunately, our education system is really suffering so that when I talk to younger people and I bring up various names, you know, well known people, and they have no idea who I'm talking about. They know who Ariane is. Ariana Grande is.

They know the entertainers, right? Yeah, they own the entertainers.

Some people don't know who Madonna is. Right. And, um, you know, they don't know their history. History to me is very important, either for your particular field or your interest, but just general history, so you know what's going on in the world, where we've come from, so that we don't repeat some of the horrible things that we've Done. Right. So we'll be going back into that realm and, um, I find that very scary. So I want to help educate people through the articles, um, not just the ones I write, but everything that we present. I want to make sure that what we present is authentic. is um, lifting all boats that is expanding your worldview, giving you insights and maybe inspiring you to do more research on your part or get involved, uh, in some way. I think that is awesome. You know, one of the other articles that I love was the looking glass theory, right? The development of self image. Talk a little bit about that. Well, you know, we all think we know who we are and the, the old adage about you can't judge a book by its cover. Is, um, we're, a lot of that's happening and people just by how they look, how they dress, their color, the, the, the, what they're involved in get judged and I've been judged and I don't appreciate it and especially by someone who doesn't know me from Adam, so to speak to judge me. Um, come on, wait a minute. So, the looking glass theory is that, really, you have to, you have to pause. Put a pause on what's going on around you. Disconnect yourself from your phone, from the computers, from iPads, whatever. Take a look in the mirror. And really look deeply into your eyes to get a sense of who you are. Do some evaluation or assessment of what your life has been about and realize that there's more to it than what you may perceive, right? You know, I look at what I've gone through in my life and for the longest time, I just saw myself as a victim. And I put that victim right there in people's faces. Look at me, poor me. I've had a terrible life. I've been, you know, a victim, blah, blah, blah. I had to get over that because I was holding myself back. And the example I use is that when I was, um, my first year at Adelphi University in their dance program, the way things were set up back then, after each semester you would have a review. You would sit in front of your teachers and they would review you. And whether you've got a good review or a bad review, you usually came out crying. My review was absolutely scathing. They hated me. Uh, they had the worst things to say about me as a personality and, and what kind of student I was. And I ran all the way back to my apartment. I didn't want anybody to see me. I was so upset. And what I did was, um, for Christmas vacation, I flew back to Colorado and I met with Richard and I was what, 23 years old at the time. And he said, you know what? I get a very strong feeling that you're the problem. I'm like, what?

So you're ready to bite his head off, right?

Yeah. Right. You know, how could I be the problem? It's everybody else. So we talked about it and I realized that, yeah, I'm the problem. It's my ego, it's my sense of being a victim, um, and just working that to the hilt. And I had to make a decision. Did I want to have a dance career or not? So I did a lot of meditating on that. Excuse me. And I went back to Adelphi University for spring semester. And what I heard more often than anything else was the evil twin went away and the good twin returned. And I knew that this was a major crossroads for myself that I had managed to get through and make a new decision for my life. Then I started working my butt off to gain the trust of my teachers and my fellow students, and to really focus on being a, being a dancer. And then I started applying that to the rest of my life. And wow, I have a long way to go here. And so I've been working on that ever since. And I support other people in doing the same thing, uh, really looking at who they believe themselves to be, getting over their delusions and illusions and realizing they are far more than what they think they are or what other people are telling them.

Right. Right. You know what's interesting though? You said the word ego. Okay. And, you know, based on all the horrific things that you've been through, okay, you still created an ego, right? When you were in school. That you still so think about that for a second that just goes to show how we our own self no matter what we go through, we still think highly or we have some type of, you know, mechanism that makes us feel that we're better than what we typically are. Okay. Regardless of the circumstances. And you had to figure that out. And God bless, you know, your partner with being honest with you. But then also to be fair, God bless you to be willing to listen and hear What he was trying to tell you, because by you listening to that and meditating on it, marinating it, it helped change your life.

I know the first of all, thank you for that. But second is that the thing about ego is you're going to have an ego. It's when you decide that you're better than someone else. Is when you're going to trip up. What I did was I looked at what other people were doing that I really liked that I thought was stellar. And I tried to emulate that. Um, but I had to go through a period because I became extremely competitive. I was going to outdo everybody in any audition, in any dance, whatever. I was going to be the best. The top dog, uh, the Leo ego was really coming out, but being in a dance company, you have to learn to work with others. Yeah. So I got my butt kicked again. And, um, thank God. For a number of things, the other dancers putting up with me for artistic directors, recognizing that I had talent and that I was holding myself back because of my ego. And as you said, I had to learn to listen and then really take in what I was hearing and reflect on that deeply. Not just, Oh yeah, I get that. No, I had to really reflect on it. And so that is an integral part of my life now, because I do a lot of facilitation of groups and I do plenty of public speaking, I have to listen. And if I'm not listening, then I'm not being present. If I'm not being present, I'm not being authentic. And then what's the point? Right. And what people are looking for, whether they are conscious of it or not, they are looking for real connection. Correct. So, I have to be an example of that. I have to walk that talk.

Well, I think that's something that we all have to be an example of, right? You know, that old saying, when you point one finger to somebody else, you got three fingers pointing back at you. I think that's the key. So tell us as we, as we start to close, tell us about the future of CODE M. Where, where are you guys looking to take CODE M?

Well, we are moving into a national arena and, you know, we start, start off local than regional, and now we are definitely moving into a national arena. And that just means that there. Are more readers that we would love to hear from, we want your feedback, your perspectives so that we can meet you on the playing field of code M and that because of what our country is going through, we want to bring people together and if we can do that on a national stage, great. And our message is very clear. We are here to transform the lives of men. To us, that means moving, the spiral is going up, not that way. It's not going down. It's going up. So we can only do that if we hear from you. If you really disagree with what we're doing or articles that we're writing, Let us know. We need to hear that. That's part of our listening. So that, again, we can work with you to help the Black community, help all communities rise. Because, like I said earlier, we're all in this together.

There's no question, my brother.

We can't compartmentalize ourselves, and we see so much of that happening right now. The level of divisiveness is extraordinary. And It's very sad. It's very painful to see this going on. You know, you read all the science fiction that we're going to, you know, things are going to get better and we have a beautiful life. Well, I don't see that happening. And we have to work at it, but we can't work at it by pointing, as you say, pointing a finger to somebody else and blaming them or say, hang on to a victim mentality. We've all been through hard times in different ways. So let's support each other through it and beyond it.

I love it, my friend. Hey, listen, number one, thank you. Thank you from the bottom of my heart. Um, I love you a lot, my brother. And I mean that you're just a great, great human being. And you have a lot of lessons to share with other individuals while you still, as you were saying, Still deal with the things that you have to deal with. And I think that's something we're always at a, that construction thing where it says work in progress, right? As long as, as long as we know that, right, we're a work in progress. How can, let me ask you this, my friend, how can a black executive perspective podcast help David Christo and Kodum magazine?

Gee, um, you know, it's really getting the word out that you, one, you exist. And two, that Code N exists, that we're in partnership and, um, you know, just using all the avenues available to become more visible to everybody. Let people know that we are a magazine and a, um, group of people, a family, that's of substance. We're not playing around. We are touching hearts. We are touching minds. We are here, all of us together, to create the world that we all envision, a better world. We can do that. It's going to take a lot of work, and a lot of stamina, and a lot of self reflection, but we can all do that together. So, just get the word out there. If you know of a great journalist, Let us know, put us in contact with them. We'll search it out and see what happens next.

I love it. My brother, I love it. And speaking of, you know, working together, we really enjoy our partnership with Koden magazine. And. Not because there's, there are pages in a magazine, it's because of the people that represent those pages like yourself and Bilal and Brad. So, really, really thank you for coming on David Christel, Managing Editor of CODE M Magazine. We appreciate you sharing your story and listening to your perspective.

Well, thank you for the opportunity and thank you all for listening.

You're welcome, my brother. So I think it's now time for Tony's tidbit. When a magazine uplifts the black family, it raises the consciousness of the entire community, promoting a dialogue that bridges gaps and builds bridges. And you heard that. Verbatim from David Christel, the man, managing editor of CODE M Magazine. So we want to thank him for coming. So I hope you enjoyed today's episode, pioneering change and breaking barriers, CODE M Magazine. But before we leave, you have to, we got to go to our call to action because we're looking for. Everyone to incorporate this call of action. You heard from David earlier that it's all, we're all connected together. It's all about working together. So as you know, our call to action is called L.E.S.S. L E S S, and less L stands for learn. So you want to learn about new people, new cultures, history, stuff that you don't know. And then E stands for empathize. Okay. Once you learn, now you should have more empathy towards your fellow human being. S stands for share. Now you want to share what you've learned to other individuals so they can become enlightened. And then the. Other S stands for stop. You want to stop discrimination when it comes into your path. So if grandma says something inappropriate at the Thanksgiving table, you say, grandma, we don't talk like that. Right. So we can get everyone. To incorporate less L. E. S. S. in your walk of walk of life will be able to build a fair and understanding world. And more importantly, and David said this earlier, we'll be able to see the change that we all want to see. So. Tune in to the next episode of a black executive perspective magazine. Excuse me. See, I'm already, we already partnered with code M cause I'm saying a black executive perspective magazine, but a black executive perspective podcast, wherever you get your podcast. And you can follow us on all our socials X, YouTube, Instagram, LinkedIn, and tick tock at a black exec or our fabulous lovable. Yes. David Christel for our man behind the glass, double A who puts all this together. I'm Tony tidbit. We talked about it. We love you. And we're out

a black executive perspective.