And welcome to another episode of ADHD Women's Wellbeing Wisdom.

Little short, bite sized pieces of wisdom that I've curated from all the many, many episodes that have been recorded over this time.

And I really hope that this short insight will help you on the week ahead.

And today you'll hear from Abigail Kimbell.

Now, Avigail is a specialist who supports adults with ADHD in identifying the root causes of their symptoms and shares the tools you need to journey joyfully towards your goals.

And she has a fantastic book called Hyper Healing.

Show me the science making sense for your child's ADHD diagnosis.

Let's hear from Avigail.

We're told with ADHD that the block is very often sort of, you know, neurological.

We have got parts of our brains are working slightly differently which do sometimes prevent us from being able to get over the threshold, say like a someone else that doesn't have these challenges.

At what point can we bypass the neurological side and really kind of go, yes, I'm acknowledging that I've got ADHD and I'm acknowledging that it's difficult, but this is a belief system, this is something that I can work with.

This is, you know, and we know about neural pathways and neuroplasticity that things can change in our brain.

So I think what you're saying before is that we sometimes use the ADHD as a way to, I don't know if it's self sabotage, but it is a bit of an excuse, isn't it?

And it's easier to just get, oh well now I know so I don't have to do that.

But the, the harder but the most rewarding way is going, right, I'm going to do this, but I'm just going to do it a different way and hope that I still get the same results.

You know, say it's to do with qualifications and going back to university, you know, whether I need to have a, you know, some go to the university and get some technology to help me kind of decipher the lectures.

There are so many different ways, but it's that kind of in between stage of the neuro side and the self belief in the mindset.

Is that how you help people sort of acknowledge what they're going through but help them with the mindset?

Well, interestingly actually I spend a bunch of time in book two in the Show Me the science book, which will be published pretty soon, talking about the neural side.

And the truth of the matter is that the neural side is not necessarily as set in stone science as we would hope to believe ADHD symptoms exist 100%, but most of the time what we're seeing is that it is a lack of habits and the lack of habits in a healthy person.

Why is that?

It's different types of people and different types of personalities.

The personality that we're talking about, which usually fits with adhd, would be that instant gratification personality, which on the one hand has real fire to it and the person is interested in everything and has much more curiosity and is kind of living on the edge of a little bit of danger and a little bit of is this fun, Is this interesting, is this cool, is this.

But they have a terrible time with follow through.

So yes, that person is going to have a much harder time getting a task done, but they will have a much easier time engaging their environment, perhaps speaking to people that, speaking to strangers, speaking to adults, being dropped in a foreign city and being able to find their way around things like that.

So on the one side you have the challenge, which is lack of habits, which is a huge challenge.

And it's impossible to live without habits.

You and I as mothers know this.

You must have your habits in order.

But if you are an instant gratification kind of mom, you're going to have a much harder time figuring out how to set routines and how to be organized with the hours that you do certain things.

And dinner time is kind of way too spontaneous and not helpful to anybody.

But on the other hand, you might be more spontaneous with going out on hikes with your kids, or much more flexible with the way you communicate with them, or more creative.

Creative in your communication or in the way you see the world.

So it's really a balancing act.

So that what I work with people on is helping them create healthy habits because they're way behind, just like you said, they are way behind and they need help with those habits.

So very slowly we build up the crucial habits.

Let's say we would start with getting to bed on time.

And this is also for adults.

Once you've gone to bed at the same time for about a month, you actually have created a habit and you've strengthened your brain.

You're talking about the neural pathways.

You've created a neural pathway because you have a new habit now.

So it is more tedious to create habits.

But then on the other hand, it might be less tedious to have clever ideas and be creative and think out of the box and other things like that, which another person who's very boxy kind of thinker would have a Harder time with.

So that's so interesting.

So it.

For your new book.

And you've really kind of researched the science.

So what part of the neurological side is not as strong in the evidence as we thought it was?

Most of it.

I know that a lot of people get that comfort.

They do get the comfort knowing that, you know, they've had the diagnosis and the psychiatrist has explained about the synapses and the, you know, the fact that we've got lower levels of dopamine and I'm not a sciency person, but I know that there's, you know, there's parts of the brain that can be identified as an ADHD brain.

So are you saying that this isn't, this evidence isn't as strong as we thought it was?

Yeah, 100.

It is not anywhere near as strong as we thought it was.

And a little bit.

I don't need.

I don't need a proof because I don't need to convince anyone.

The truth is that if you've been diagnosed with adhd, what's important is progressing and figuring out how you work and how your brain works and what's best for you in order to do great in the world.

So it's not.

This is less important to me.

It's important for me personally because I like to know the studies and I like to know the truth and I love the science part of it.

But in 2017, they were still running studies to do scans on brains to see if the ADHD brain is different than the regular brain or the normative.

It's not regular and not regular normative is the correct phrasing here.

So keeping in mind that they started scanning the brain with CT scans in 1978.

That's a long time ago.

Then they moved to F, MRI and then FMRI and that's where we are now.

They still don't have conclusive evidence.

And in this 2017 study, they only found that 5% of children with that had been diagnosed with ADHD had some kind of altered brain.

But they weren't 100% sure if that altered brain was a pathological problem or if it was just a different variant of a healthy brain.

So even, and it was a tremendous study, thousands of children were involved.

I don't know if it was a well, well developed study because there were certain things they did not consider, such as previous medication.

They kind of threw all the children in together.

So therefore, we can't figure out if there's a confounding part of this which would be maybe a brain that has been taking medication for a while looks different than a brain that hasn't.

So in terms of that, they did not consider that.

But even then, if you took a room full of 100 children and who are all diagnosed with ADHD, only 5% of them, only 5 of them would have a scan that looked different.

And in the conclusion of the study, after concluding that it is absolutely conclusive that kids with ADHD have, have neurological differences in five areas of their brain, the author of the study, Martine Hoogman, she actually said, and there's absolutely no way, not within the study, but when she was responding to people who reviewed her study, she said there's absolutely no way to be able to tell if a person has ADHD or not based on brain scans.

We are a society that tests everything.

We do blood tests, we do urine tests, we do stool tests.

We're always scanning things because we want to get to the bottom of what's going on with people.

We do not have a brain scan for adhd.

If it was conclusive and that was the way we could really identify someone based on a brain scan, then we'd be using a brain scan.

Yeah.

You know, it's so fascinating because the more evidence research that's coming out that we're hearing, you know, so many different things about, you know, the neurological side, but also the behavioral side.

It's hard, isn't it, to know?

Because I always believe, and I evident, sort of, I'd say anecdotally, and I see it with clients and my family, that genetically ADHD is very present, you know.

Oh, for sure, for sure.

Yeah.

If you've got adhd, chances are at least one of your parents is going to have it, or a cousin or an auntie or a grandparent.

It's, it's there.

And were you open to the idea that it can be brought on by trauma, by surroundings, by your environment?

What, what kind of.

I'd say percentage.

If you, if you can't identify the ADHD in your family, where else can it manifest from?

Right.

Well, first of all, I'm in complete agreement with you that there's a very strong genetic component here.

And of my six children, most of them have been diagnosed with ADHD and their father is, definitely has all the ADHD symptoms in, in, in the most positive sense of it.

But so percentage wise, I couldn't tell.

I would say that the genetic aspect of it would be this personality, the instant gratification personality, which again, is not pathological, but it is.

We see certain behavioral Patterns.

But ADHD essentially, as far as I see it, is a clash between a person and their environment.

So if a person has a instant gratification personality, they're always clashing with their environment because their environment expects them to have good habits.

But that's only one part.

And the other part is a child who, you know, God forbid, is physically abused or traumatized in some way.

Kids living in a war zone, we see that in certain areas of Israel that are constantly at war along the Gaza border, that those kids will certainly have more ADHD symptoms and other issues than other children.

We'll also see it in other environmental factors like screen time, like way too much screen time or a lack of sleep.

So your environment is not providing you with enough sleep.

You and I have both been after birth and I, you know, I remember that area, I barely remember that, that time period because I don't think I could string two words together when, you know, I was up, up all night nursing a baby and then, and then people wanting sandwiches in the morning.

So therefore there's, there's many, many environmental factors that will cause all of the symptoms of adhd.

And I always find it funny when people say, well, is that really ADHD or is it not?

Are we, are we missing the diagnosis?

No, of course not.

It's all really adhd, because real ADHD is a list of symptoms.

And if that person is struggling with that symptom, with those symptoms, then that means that they're having these behaviors that have to be addressed.

Yeah, because we see people thriving with adhd.

You know, you mentioned your husband, that he has all the ADHD traits and symptoms, but he thrives off it.

And we have other people who haven't thrived at all and it's been hugely debilitating to their lives.

And I wonder if the main component to that is the way we were brought up, the way we were parented, you know, the socioeconomic status, the schooling.

There's so many factors that even if you haven't got ADHD or environment and our upbringing, you know, really kind of guides us and it's, it's very strong minded individuals with an intense self belief that managed to override their conditioning and their upbringing to get that success.

So would you say that the environment, you know, especially the way we're parenting is so crucial to a child with adhd, but also for us to recognize?

I mean, I talk about lifestyle and wellbeing all the time because I know that's what helps me.

I know that I think if I wasn't so conscious about my own wellbeing.

My ADHD would probably have been really, I would have been very badly affected by it.

Just wondered what your thoughts were on that.

Yeah, I'm.

I mean, good for you for taking care of yourself and making sure that your lifestyle and, and the things you need are in place.

That is so important.

I tell women all the time, get help.

You're no hero for pairing your own socks.

It's fine.

Get someone else to do it and use your own creative juices for things that propel you forward.

And that's just one example of being able to take care of ourselves as women.

But definitely the environment is absolutely crucial.

And I don't even know that it's necessarily the individual that has these ADHD symptoms that they have to be such strong individuals that, and therefore they manage to make it through.

I think it's much more the messaging from their environment, which is everybody struggles with something.

Your struggle is with focusing, your struggle is not with sports.

So you're going to excel at sports and you're going to excel at volunteering and you're going to do, you're going to really do great there.

And this area you need help with.

So when it's framed that way, the person is self empowered.

And where I see the people that, that really suffer the most are the people that came from a home where they were not empowered, where they were, they were coddled, or the parents had way too much sympathy for them.

And it's something I see all the time.

If we treat, if we feel sorry for our children, we really turn them into sorry children and then they become sorry adults.

And so it's not necessarily that my husband was.

He's a very strong person for sure.

He's got a powerful personality.

But let's say he was in an environment where his parents always felt sorry for him.

Instead of saying, you're amazing, you go out there and you get it and you do great and you're going to excel.

And then he went ahead and did that with all the challenges.

And he had so many challenges, he could not sit in his seat.

He told me that when he was a little kid, he actually traced his shoes onto the floor in his classroom so that he would physically have to place his feet there and make them not move.

And, and this is the way he was able to get through the class.

And he got tons of criticism from his teachers, but the criticism is saying, we know you could do it and you're loafing off.

So on the one hand, there's the you can do it, on the other hand is that we all struggle with something.

Let's figure out how to get you through the thing you're struggling with.

So I hope you enjoyed listening to this shorter episode of the ADHD Women's Wellbeing podcast.

I've called it the ADHD Women's Wellbeing Wisdom because I believe there's so much wisdom in the guests that I have on and their insights.

So sometimes we just need that little bit of a reminder.

And I hope that has helped you today and look forward to seeing you back on the brand new episode on Thursday.

Have a good rest of your week.