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Hey, hey.

Good morning, good afternoon, good evening wherever you may be.

Scott Luton and the one and only Tony Shrota with you here on Supply Chain now.

Welcome to today's Live stream.

Hey, Tony, how you doing today?

Scott, I couldn't be much better.

I'm getting to sit comfortably, not in my usual office out here in New Orleans where music lives and so do we.

So very happy to be with you today.

Well, Tony, great to have you.

I know you're on the road, as you mentioned.

So folks, Tony may look a little different.

That's just a signal he's not in the home office.

He is on the road in beautiful New Orleans at Jazz Fest, which we're going to touch on later today.

But you're in for a treat and ton Shredder.

Great to have you folks.

Today it's the Buzz where every Monday at 12 noon Eastern time, we discuss a variety of news and developments across global supply chain and business.

And Tony, we got a lot of great topics here today.

We're going to offer up some tips on how to use AI more successfully.

We're going to be talking about making returns a priority in 2025 and how business leaders can bake more circularity into their organizations.

All that, plus more.

About 12:15pm Eastern time, we've got an outstanding guest, Lars Chidec with DHL Supply chains joining us.

Tony, did you eat your Wheaties this morning?

Because we got a lot of work to do.

I haven't had them yet.

And in New Orleans, of course, Wheaties are equated with beignets.

Scott, really?

Right.

Yeah, of course.

So I haven't had those yet.

Thank you for making me absolutely starving for those delicious beignets that New Orleans is known for.

And if I had a choice, it would definitely be beignets for breakfast and not Wheaties.

So.

But great to have you here.

All right, so Tony, two quick things before we hit two items before Lars joins us here about 12:15pm Eastern time.

So number one, folks, give us your take in the comments, whether you're tuned in via LinkedIn, YouTube, X, Facebook, Twitch, no matter.

Let us know what you think.

And secondly, if you enjoy the show today, we'd love for you to share it with a friend and your network.

They'll be glad you did.

Let's do this.

Let's knock out a couple things before our esteemed guest joins us.

Looking forward to learning from you and Lars here today.

And I want to start with sharing our latest and greatest newsletter, the latest edition of with that said, our almost weekly newsletter, we like to bake in a little flexibility, Tony was published over the weekend.

Now we covered a lot of ground from evolving shipping trends here in the U.S.

hey, lots of growing volume going to some upstarts not named UPS or FedEx.

Three major cost drivers when it comes to logistics and what the heck to do about it.

We've got upcoming live shows all in there, some of our favorite episodes over on YouTube.

But Tony, we dialed it in on on the most recent edition of our monthly webinar series that we like to call the Bridge, right?

We've got a couple of them already under our belt.

And the last one, a couple weeks ago I was joined by Elaine Benfield, my dear friend, very talented, and we interviewed technology expert and AI guru Vin Vashista.

If you're not following Vin Vashista across the socials, you're missing out.

Vin delivered a truckload of practical tips for how supply chain leaders can better optimize the results they get and their success with artificial intelligence.

So Tony, get this, we had about, I don't know, I think I earned a certification after an hour with Vin and Elaine.

But here's two key points he made and I'll share here.

And folks, you can learn more by checking out.

With that said, I think we're putting a link right there in the comments.

Check that out.

But two quick points.

Number one, VIN encourage organizations to use smaller, highly targeted language models because those biggest ones aren't always the best and sometimes they'll miss out on that nuance in that context.

So don't sleep on the smaller language models.

And then secondly, when looking to figure out where to focus, where to start with AI.

Vin suggested, hey, focus on your team's real world pain points that are eating up hours and creating tons of heartburn and bottlenecks.

And that's oftentimes where AI can really make a difference that matters to the organization and can really create a ripple effect throughout the enterprise.

So Tony, those two very practical pieces of advice make a lot of sense to me.

How about you?

It was great to read that, Scott, because I love the comment about AI is coming for 100% of your jobs but not 100% of the people.

And I related to that in two great ways.

Number one, using speech is working better now on my cell phone to give messages.

Now sometimes it gets a little creative and it does stupid things, but in general, it works pretty well.

But the other side of it, Scott, is what's happening in the return space.

AI can make a decision about a product without human intervention, in a sen sense of is it like new?

Is it not like new?

And I will tell you that I'm so proud of being connected to Michelle James.

She was a keynote speaker for us this year.

Okay.

Vice president of partnerships at the ctia, the Cellular Technology Industry Association.

And they created standards for mobile phones to be graded.

And that standard now has been programmed into certain software.

And there's companies like Future Dial Up KUDA who created software that can process phones quickly.

Okay.

And grade them quickly, measuring the amount of scratches on them, things like that.

And that's AI.

No one person could do the same grading of every single phone when you're talking about hundreds a day.

AI does that.

And that's amazing.

I'm with you.

That one's great.

Anyway, it frees up the human element in so many different ways to do more valuable, more fulfilling work where they can really use the creative side of the brain.

And also, and we talk about this all the time, Tony, but it also creates some terrific windows of opportunity for folks are willing to raise their hand and learn new things.

And that's the beautiful part, I think my favorite part about this golden age of supply chain tech.

And Scott, I will tell you, even from you'd mentioned the mundane tasks that have to happen every day.

And I discovered that our expense program, I ask it, it will read a receipt of any kind, and AI makes the decision what department code to plug it in, and it populates the expense report automatically.

Scott, I'm like, this is God's gift to me because I hate doing expense.

Just take a picture and it does the mundane task automatically.

It's amazing.

All right, Tony, we're gonna have to talk after the show.

I gotta put my eyes on that technology.

Expense reports.

Oh, gosh.

Raise your hand if you love expense reports.

No one does.

Right.

All right.

Well, Tony, a lot of good stuff, folks.

I invite y'all check out.

With that said, we're approaching 27,000 subscribers to our almost weekly newsletter.

So check that out and let us know what you think.

And again, Trisha and the gang, drop the link right there in the comments.

Okay, Tony, we got one more quick thing to hit before bringing on great guests here today.

Lars Czedek with DHL Supply Chain.

And that is some of the best news folks going to hear all day.

It is National Supply Chain day tomorrow, April 29th, folks.

And we'd ask you a couple things here.

Number one, of course we'd love for you to join a live stream we've got set tomorrow at 12 noon Eastern Time where we're going to talk very holistically about global supply chain and celebrate many, many different things, especially Tony, the people, the people to people.

And then the other thing I would ask is whether you tune in with us or if you can't, as long as you recognize, celebrate, shake hands.

Let's really thank the people that make supply chains everywhere happen.

Because despite the technology at Tony and I were just kind of marveling at is still the people and make everything happen.

So Tony, I want on a personal level, I want to thank a member of your family because I believe your son James is a professional truck driver.

Is that right?

My son James began truck driving those 52 foot long massive semi trailers in 2020, a month before COVID shut down the country.

Except he became an essential worker because trucks had to keep moving.

So he spent the first year of his life truck driving, delivering food and everything essential.

And you're right, Scott, there's millions of trucks moving every day and carrying essentials.

That's really the lifeblood of this country and many countries of course.

But it's.

Thank you for the call out to him.

He's long haul.

So he lives in his truck.

We see him once every two or three months.

Wow.

He watches movies and lives on his computer.

Doesn't FaceTime enough with us.

But you know.

Yeah, it's an interesting life.

There's not enough of them truckers out there.

There's not enough.

We need to do more call out and make them realize it's a good professional.

It is a profession.

That's an important note, Scott.

It is a profession and people need to understand that.

And it's well paid profession.

But it's a skill to drive those trucks and park them in between two other 52 footers without damaging anything.

It's a skill I don't have, but he does.

I'm proud of him.

Thank you.

Well, you bet.

And it is an incredible profession that requires talented, dedicated individuals.

And that's just the truck drivers.

I mean machine operators, warehouse pickers and packers.

Hey, returns management professionals, of course, our technologists.

It requires an army of people around the world that give all of us consumers the modern conveniences that we all appreciate.

So folks, again, national supply chain Day tomorrow, April 29th.

Every year, April 29th, join us.

And if you can't join us, have a parade or Shake someone's hand out in your neck of the woods and it's easy.

We got the link right here.

Thank you.

Tricia and Amanda, right here to join us or learn more about National Supply Chain Day.

All right, so Tony, first off, tell James we said safe travels.

Godspeed to him.

And we're gonna have to break bread with James at some point soon.

But we've got a great, great guest joining us here today.

Tony, are you ready?

I'm ready.

You're ready.

You're always ready.

I want to welcome in Lars Tidek, global Head of returns and circularity at DHL Supply Chain.

Hey, hey.

Hey, Lars, how you doing?

Pretty good.

Hi, Scott.

Hi, Tony.

Happy Monday.

I think happy birthday is the right word to say.

You nailed it.

You nailed it, my friend.

And of course, Lars has tuned in from beautiful South Florida where it's not too hot just yet.

Tony, of course, over New Orleans.

We're city by city getting all our geography in here today.

But Lars, let's do this.

This is your first time with us here on Supply Chain.

Now, I want to start with a fun warm up question, really for you both.

And Lars, what we hear is when you're not out there doing big things in Global Supply Chain, a couple of your favorite activities are being outside swimming and scuba diving.

Lars, tell us more about this.

Well, living in South Florida, right?

There's water everywhere.

We got great weather.

And I don't know if you guys been, but there's a really nice place.

It's called Penican State Park.

It's on Key Largo.

And you can do paddling, canoeing, scuba driving.

They tell you a lot about how to protect coral reefs.

I mean, it's an amazing place to be.

Lars, it sounds beautiful.

And I gotta say, Tony, going back to our musical theme, whenever I hear Key Largo, which is one of the locales that Lars mentioned, I go straight to the Beach Boys and Kokomo.

They're one of their last big hits in the 80s.

Do you do the same?

I kind of do.

And I've been through Key Largo and it's such a beautiful place.

You can see where the music's inspired from.

Just cruising down the long highway all the way to Key West.

Actually, from Key Largo to Key west is such a beautiful drive.

If you've never made it, do it, it should be on your list.

Excellent tips and I bet Lars can give you some great places to eat down in South Florida.

So you'll have to connect with him after the show.

All right, so Tony, So one other thing I wanted to circle back with you on.

As we mentioned, on the front end, you're not in the home headquarters.

You're on the road in the great city of New Orle.

And a lot of folks may not know you're a massive Jazz Fest fan.

You've been going for years.

So tell us about Jazz Fest.

It is the best music festival in the world, bar none, because it's misleading that it's Jazz Fest.

We watched John Fogarty perform for two hours the other night doing all of his Creedence Clearwater Revival songs, which he now owns again because a lawsuit that he actually held up a glass of champagne and said, I've outlived them all.

And he's 80 years old and does a two hour music set.

Wow.

Where does that happen?

Or you go to?

Actually, I'm afraid to say it, Scott.

I've been coming so long, I'm forgetting things.

We went to a club last night, famous club in New Orleans called Tipitina, to see a great band, the North Mississippi All Stars.

We walk in and I'm like, I've been here before.

It's been a long time.

That was in 97 or 98, and I've been coming quite a while.

But there's 10 stages just to give everyone a little visual.

10 stages.

We've had Gladys Knight, we're going to have Patti LaBelle, we've had, as I said, John Fogerty and Pearl Jams coming, and Dave Matthews's last night.

And it's such a range of music that's amazing.

CJ Cheniere, who's a great zydeco player, Eric Gales.

There's a blues tent, a gospel tent, a jazz tent, an old jazz tent.

The zydeco stage is just 10 stages of great music.

And they curate the best artists in the world who are honored to be here, actually.

So.

All right, so, Lars, I'm gonna fire up the truck.

I'll be down to pick you up and we're gonna head in to see Tony and eat some good food.

How's that sound, Lars?

I'll pack my guitar.

Forgot to mention, I play bass guitar and guitar.

We'll join you.

Okay.

Learn something new every day.

Well, hey, one last thing about the Jazz Fest, Tony.

I was over on the folks that organize all the New Orleans Jazz and Heritage foundation and the food at Jazz Fest.

Look at that plate of food full of collards and some other things.

So, folks, music, wonderful, fellowship, wonderful.

But the food also always is delicious.

Lars and Tony, I hate to leave Scuba diving, swimming and all things music, New Orleans.

But we got a lot to get into here today and I want to do this before we dive into topics, no pun intended, I want to level set a bit first.

And Lars, I want to start with you.

Would you briefly, you know, share a little bit more about yourself professionally and your role at DHL supply chain?

Sure, happy to do so.

I mean, as you can see here written at the bottom, I'm currently heading our returns and circularity solutions space at DHL supply chain.

For those of you who may not know the difference between DHL and DHL supply chain, we're one of the five divisions and we're really dealing with contract logistics.

We operate in more than 50 markets.

And you know, Tony, Scott, you spoke about the supply chain talent, right?

We have 190,000 supply chain experts in our division who you know, amazing work every single day.

I've been with DHL for about 20 years, 10 years in executive roles.

As you may heard.

I have a bit of an accent.

So I'm from Europe, but I've been working in Europe out of Germany and the last 10 years here in southern Florida.

Well, Lars, that's quite the army that Lars mentioned.

190,000 professionals making global supply chain happen there.

Tony, you were about to add another comment.

Scott, you have to love and I love Lars and your title because at Philips they wanted to call me Director of Reverse Logistics and I'm like no one knows what reverse logistics is and returns and circularity is as good as you can get for a title.

I love it.

I'm going to steal it, Lars, and use it.

Please do so.

No worries.

So Tony, you know, we've done this a time or three thousands and we're talking about pre show but for our new audience members that may have have not caught all your previous appearances here, tell us briefly you serve as executive director of the Reverse Logistics Association.

Tell us more about yourself.

Well, I fell into this, Scott, after working at Sony and Phillips for a while.

One day they just decided it's like, Tony, go fix the returns problem.

I'm a sales guy.

How do you fix returns problem?

I just want to sell it forward.

And I've been accused, Scott, as you know, of being anti capitalist sometimes because I talk about returns being important and doing things with them and that's what we learned to do.

And at the end of the day, the frustration that Lar probably knows well is a lot of these returns, there's nothing wrong with them.

That's the holy grail.

It's like people are sending stuff back and there's nothing wrong with that.

A part of it's that culture of entitlement we've got.

Part of it is because we're not making people happy when they buy something.

If you make people happy, you exceed their expectations.

They're going to love what they bought and keep it no matter what.

That's the trick.

That's that holy grail Scott of no Fault Found returns no technical fault.

It's frustrating because as you referred to earlier, we're moving a lot of stuff in these trucks back and forth that there's nothing wrong with them and it's kind of a shame.

But I found ways to reduce them and I'm proud of that.

And we worked hard and there's so many great partners like DHL Supply Chain around the world who focus on how can we help you as your company that you make stuff, you sell stuff, you keep getting it back.

What can you do to make that work better?

Some great companies helping now like dhl, Tony, well said.

And Lars, I'm gonna give you a chance before.

I've got a great article that we're going to talk about.

Just a second.

But Lars, Tony said a whole bunch of nice things about your organization.

I'll give you a chance to respond really quick.

Well, I mean, first of all, the All A is an amazing organization.

We've been using the conferences.

I think the last one was Las Vegas in March.

We had dhl, you know, representation there.

There's another one I think is coming up, I'm not mistaken, in Europe in June.

So great organization, great way.

You know, folks, if you have a chance, go there, meet up and spend some quality time there with friends and customers.

Well said.

Rla.org you can check out all the events Lars just mentioned and we'll probably hit it on the end of today's show as well to make sure folks, you know how to connect with Lars and Tony.

Okay?

Spending quality time well, I'm looking forward to spending some more quality time with both of y'all, Lars and Tony.

And I'm gonna start with this next topic.

We've got a great article here from our friends at Supply and Demand Chain Executive, where Dennis Moon, who's with Roadie, the writer of this article, talks about making returns a priority in 2025.

And Tony, a lot of us, we've been saying this for years.

So this is good news if it is late, but that's okay.

Few highlights.

I'm gonna get Tony and Lars to respond to this but starting with according to the NRF National Retail Federation and happy returns, consumers returned get this folks, $890 billion in products in 2024 and that's about 17% of total sales.

Now according to data from Tony right here.

And the RLA 84 say that if they have a good returns experience with a particular retailer, then they'll keep coming back.

So gotta make them happy like Tony was saying.

But, but big but comma the costs of those returns continue to rise dramatically due to a wide variety of factors.

And I'm not just talking about dollar costs, but think about costs in a very holistic sense.

Shipping costs, fraud, operational challenges and inefficiencies and a whole bunch more.

Now the article suggests a variety of ways to rethink reverse logistics to optimize for customers and operators, such as protecting the customer experience.

But also considering using cross retailer return partnerships which will help reduce shipping costs and increase foot traffic.

That's a good thing.

AI and data science isn't only for forward logistics.

I think Tony mentioned this on the front end they apply innovative technology to reverse logistics and returns management too.

Some retailers as an example are using AI powered return forecasting to pre position inventory and locations where those items are most likely to be resold.

Love that.

And then finally minimizing the financial impact of returns by ramping up the velocity of returns processing which helps protect the value of the products.

So and that's just summer folks.

We're dropping a link to article here.

Go check it out for yourself, let us know what you think.

But Lars, at a high level in terms of making returns a priority in 2025 or anything that that article just mentioned.

Your thoughts?

It's a really nice article summarizing the state of the art.

Maybe Let me comment quickly on why this is so critical right?

For brands, retailers, tech customers, you name it.

I mean most of us know that a lot of things go, you know are returned in terms of returns rates we see 20% on average, 50% after peak time.

Right.

So this is really a strategic relevance.

It's not small volumes that are coming back.

But that's 20 to 50% returns rates.

It drives customer loyalty.

75% of buyers are likely to rebuy, you know if they have a good returns experience.

And it all be nice to saw that.

But there's a interesting survey that says one third of consumers say paying for returns is more annoying than going to jewelry duty or the dmv.

So just saying, you know this really drives customer loyalty and customer satisfaction.

I, I think all of us, Tony, all of us can identify with going to the DMV or any or the dentist to get in a cavity field.

If we're making returns more painless while we continue to get better and better at the craft of, you know, reverse logistics and returns management, I think everybody can win.

But Tony, what your thoughts on what Lars shared or back to the article.

Or why returns has got to be more of a priority here in 2025.

That continued focus on making the customer experience easier for returns has generated and increased the amount of returns.

Frankly, we just make it too easy.

And part of that is because the E commerce retailers had to have a wedge against the big box retailers, the retail stores.

They had to make it easy to return things, just drop it off somewhere and we'll pay for it to gain a foothold in that space.

So now we've made it so easy to return that people think, hey, it doesn't matter what I buy, I can return it.

And now there's a little bit of a carrot and stick approach going on.

I think Lars would agree.

The, the stick is now they're starting to charge nickels and dimes here and there, a buck or two and three.

And that's really not solving the problem.

I go back to that beginning.

Make the customer happy with what they buy and not not worry about whether they're going to return it or not.

Just make sure they're buying the right thing, make sure they're buying the right size, make sure they're buying the right item they need in their home.

It's really about trying to enhance that.

And again, I'm going to sound anti capitalist here, but we are sometimes buying way too much in this country and we're sometimes making way too much, which results in especially the term fast fashion.

People are buying things and wearing it once or twice, buying something new or returning it, which is sad.

So there's a whole world of how can we make customers and consumers happy without creating a return tsunami that we have created.

Right?

Tony?

Well said.

And I think on that last item, in terms of consumer trends, my hunch, Lars and Tony, the better we are as an industry in terms of educating and informing consumers out there, especially in light of some other trends that we've seen recent years.

I bet eventually we can create some trends that are going to help us get this tsunami of returns in a headlock.

Tony, we'll see.

It might be too optimistic, but we shall see.

All right.

Lars, you were nodding your head before.

I want to, I want to talk in Just a second about some of your organization's goals.

But Lars, would you generally agree with what Tony was sharing there?

No, I fully agree.

What I would probably just highlight is not going to say it's unavoidable, right?

But I think it's also important that we really deal with the proper way of the returns that are coming.

What we sometimes forget is that it's important to recover the value, right?

Rather than channeling the products are coming back to, let's say waste or recycling.

It's really finding ways to recover the value.

And I think, Tony, you said it right.

A lot of the products that come back oftentimes are intact because users don't know how to use it or they pick the wrong color.

I'll give you an example.

Tony, you mentioned earlier cell phones, right?

And how to use AI.

You're running operations for a mobile network operator.

Every single day we see between 20 to 50,000 cell phones being returned.

So instead of taking those phones, right, and either bulk liquidating them or sending them to recycling, we found a way to really automatically to a large chunk, identify, rate them, inspect them, refurbish, you know, repair those cell phones to really recover the value, not have it go to recycling waste management to bring it back to the market and have a second life, a third life of those products.

I think that's, that's super important.

Scott, what Lars is talking about there is that amazing secondary market that's growing, whether it's a Goodwill store or whether it's a TJ Maxx.

Some of these end of life products and return goods are showing up somewhere else.

And as long as we start to take away the stigma, especially you know who was great at it?

Scott and Lars, the auto industry.

Pre loved.

We need to start calling this stuff pre loved.

Pre certified.

Anything that makes people feel better about buying previously used products.

And we need to change the world on that.

And we are.

And again, partners like dhl, he just pointed out, they can make that product more readily available for secondary market resale.

It's amazing and it's great.

We got to keep doing it.

No doubt you're referring to what some call the re economy, right?

Repair, remanufacturing, resale.

Love it.

That's one of my favorite modern trends.

Okay, a couple of quick comments before I shift gears more with Lars.

Seeham says, hey, I wonder if there are tools where companies can profile a customer as to whether or not they will return an item.

Maybe that's too much.

She says, thinking out loud.

Tony, My hunch is there's probably lots of a scenario or profile data building already.

It may not be specific down to the person, but there's a lot of factors.

There's a ton of factors when we get to predicting returns.

Would you agree, Tony?

Absolutely.

And you know, that goes back to some ideas of angel customers, devil customers.

Ooh, and the book that was written years ago about profiling those devil customers.

But unfortunately we're past that.

Right.

You know, we're over that bar.

Google knows everything about us all the time, including how much we return.

But profiling gets a little bit, bit dangerous.

I'd rather profile the products than the people and whether the products are more likely to come back because of a whatever.

But profiling people, that gets a little scary.

Now, I mentioned the carrot stick.

Yeah, the carrot should be.

Lars, you're a regular customer of our e commerce website.

We love you.

You hardly return anything.

If you buy this and you promise not to send it back.

Somehow let's come up with language.

You promise not to send it back back, we'll give you a discount.

And by the way, that's what the hotels are doing now, right?

The airlines, non refundable purchases.

Buy the hotel room.

It's cheaper if you're guaranteeing you're going to be there.

So we just haven't developed the carrots enough yet in the e commerce space.

We're going to get there, Tony, you.

Know why and Lars will give you a chance to respond.

But that carrot and stick, and that's because it's been free and that's the expectation.

And this is just my opinion, just my opinion, Lars and Tony.

And it's not a very popular one.

Tony, I brought this up on some of your previous appearances.

I hate returning anything and I'm the oddball, right?

I hate returning anything and I would be okay with paying some sort of fee to enjoy the convenience of returns.

Now again we're seeing some different organizations take different approaches.

But as long as it's free, I would argue this can be tougher to tackle.

But Lars, your final word here and some sticky, sticky topics.

But Lars, your thoughts before I move on?

I would always leave this up to the, you know, brands and we careless to decide what's important for them because it depends on the product category and so forth.

But what I've seen is some moves to charge frequent returners.

Some of our customers start charging for returns.

That's number one.

The second super interesting approach is that if you display to a return customers, if you click hey, I want to return that Item.

Did you know that that will cost you two hours because you have to wrap the, you know, the package, you have to bring it to the post office or drop off station.

So clarifying to a customer what's the impact for your personal time and what's the impact also from sustainability perspective has actually reduced some of the returns rate.

So I think there's different ways to, to deal with that.

Undoubtedly, undoubtedly that's why these conversations are so important or the conversations are LA hosts or you know, professional groups everywhere.

So good stuff there.

Lars and Tony, I'm going to share two quick comments and then Lars, I want to learn more about some of DHL Group's commitments.

I'm gonna start with this and Amanda and Trisha, let me know who this is please.

They say my favorite topic today, California is making it law for companies to manage full life cycle of the product resale and circular economy is a way to go.

How about that?

It's outstanding.

And then this other.

I bet this is Amanda, my hunch.

Amanda, Trisha says I love the new feature on Amazon that shares a message when I'm looking at an item that it's frequently returned.

It always gives me pause and makes me second guess a purchase or look for a better reviewed option.

Especially when I'm shopping for clothes.

Outstanding, Outstanding.

And see him loves that promise not to return commitment.

We're gonna have to find the right messaging there.

And by the way, that was Savita, Savita Milani on that earlier comment there.

Thanks for being here, Savita.

Okay, so let's do this.

Lar and Tony, we all know that it takes consumers to help us with driving more gains when it comes to better returns management or better circularity or better sustainability.

But what we do as professionals and organizations is critically important as well.

And to that end, Lars, would you tell us more about the DHL Group's commitments to advancing sustainable and circular logistics, especially as it relates to any specific data points or objectives or outcomes you can share.

Sure, Scott, Let me do that in two things.

One is for the group and maybe then talk about more about returns and circularity.

But we as a group have just recently shared our new strategy 2030 and we actually included the key theme of sustainable growth and we've added what we call a green logistics of choice as a fourth bottom line, really embedding sustainability in our group strategy.

And in terms, I mean you were asking about concrete targets and objectives.

I mean our key theme is achieving net zero greenhouse gas emissions by 2050.

That's a big objective, right?

We have about 120,000 vehicles on the road.

We have a fleet of about 300 airplanes.

So we retry that through electrifying 2/3 of our pickup delivery fleet today we about 40,000 electric vehicles already out of the 120,000.

Our objective for 2030 is having 30% sustainable aviation fuels and again 300 airplanes.

And what we also implementing right now is a carbon neutral design for all new buildings.

And that means energy efficient design, renewable energy sources to really bring down our greenhouse gas emissions by 2030 and ultimately be net zero by 2050.

Speaking of returns and Tony, you said you'd love to have that title very quickly.

I mean one of the very first logistics companies with a dedicated product area right around returns and circularity.

We really make an investments into building out an end to end portfolio.

You may have heard, beginning of the year we also made the strategic investments in acquiring inmar.

It's the leading return so provider here in North America and really using that over 14 return sites here and really as I said, making that commitment to avoiding landfall and really driving sustainability for the organization.

Tony, that was a pretty holistic answer from our friend Lars here.

What was your favorite component out of what they're doing?

Their commitment to walk the walk and not just talk the talk.

You can hear it in what Lars is saying.

I have to point out DHL won one of our awards this year, the Reverse Logistics Operational Excellence Award because they do walk the walk.

They are getting this done.

And I have to point out too, I think it's partly because DHL being a major global partner provider and their European heritage Europe is honestly way ahead of the United States in reverse logistics, returns, reduction, recommerce and circularity and everything else related to that.

They've got laws ahead of us that we're going to start seeing here.

We need to get ready for the extended producer responsibility laws.

They focus on carbon footprint.

They're really walking the walk.

We're so proud of them.

We gave them the award this year and because they submitted some of the details and we don't need to get into details, just know that DHL has major commitments and they're going in that direction and they're working hard at it and we're really proud of that.

And Lars already spoke to that.

So glad to hear it.

Outstanding.

So Lars, I think that award that DHL won, I think that should come with a full expense trip to New Orleans to jazz fest for 2026.

Lars, we can lobby.

Tony, would that work for you?

I'll get out of van and pick you up, Tony.

No worries.

And bring the guitar and I may ride back with you to Key Largo and, and try to do some scuba diving.

Ours.

That sounded pretty awesome too.

Well, hey, one thing you shared there, Lars, getting back to some DHL group's commitments, that acquisition of inmar, my hunch, and I don't have any press release in front of you or anything, but my hunch is it helps really push the technology advancement of how to get better reverse all things reverse and circular and returns management.

It's going to help a lot in that regard.

Am I right?

Yeah, I think it's the right technology, the right processes.

But one thing I also wanted to point out today is let's think about also shared infrastructure, right?

Because logistics is a game driven by volume, scale and the right expertise, right.

So instead of you trying to to build out your own, you know, returns logistics, let's try to plug into existing networks.

And that's the one of the reasons why we acquired inmart, right?

Because they have that excellent infrastructure and by that we have 30, 40, 50 customers in each of the warehouses.

Right.

And you can share, let's say also some of the cost, you can benefit from some of the efficiencies and you know, expertise that's in there.

So again, just another food for thought is, is how to make that space better.

Shared infrastructure.

They do that.

Well, the INMAR concept was returns shouldn't go all the way back across the country where they came from, consolidate them into multiple centers and then put them back.

And we did some analysis within Mars back at Philip's days and found we could save on freight costs.

So Lars has pointed out a very important aspect of returns.

Consolidate local and then disposition them locally rather than sending them all the way across the country.

It's an important concept.

Lars, thanks.

Good stuff.

Good stuff, Lars and Tony.

All right, so I'm going to ask you in a second, Tony, about anything other when it it comes a real leadership that inspires you when it comes to changing the game.

But before we ask you that, Thomas asked a good question we'll have to debate maybe after the show.

Thomas says.

And great to have you here, Thomas.

Maybe distributors and retailers could share the pain with vendors to collaborate and fully support stock rotations for products with high return rates that may not be in perfect condition.

That could be a billion dollar question we'll have to revisit here in a second.

But Tony, beyond Thomas's question, the question I want to pose to you and feel free to, to speak To Thomas as well.

But when it comes to real leadership, as you put it, folks that walk the walk, not just lip service leadership, who else inspires you when it comes to really changing the returns game?

Well, as some may know, we were acquired by the National Retail Federation about a year and a half ago and they represent all retailers in the country and starting to be around the world.

And retailers are really the center point of the universe for returns.

Right, because they sell the stuff, they have the customer contact, not the brands.

I worked for Philips, but we didn't have the direct link the retailers do.

So as they begin to think about their path for circularity going down the road, I see leadership from a number of store.

Even the Nordstrom's and Patagonias of the world are creating a secondary Marketplace and Alan MacArthur Foundation.

Let's talk about them.

They created a program, let's recycle jeans.

Bring us your old jeans, we'll give you a credit and buy new jeans.

So there's a lot of work going on in that space to create this circularity that we need, need to emphasize.

And again, Lars, title is there right in front of us so that we know how important that is.

So I'm seeing that leadership from retailers having to start now and it's going on and some of it's very creative.

So we're really proud of that.

Outstanding.

So I got a little sidebar there.

You're talking about jeans.

Do folks buy new jeans?

I've had the same three pairs of jeans since college.

I didn't even thought about upscale replaces.

My jeans don't have enough rips in them.

Scott, you gotta have more rips in the jeans.

Oh, gosh, if you keep them long enough, they will be fashionable again.

Just keep them.

Sounds like a good tip there.

All right, so Lars, I'm going to get some advice from you here in just a second, but I want to give Kelvin a shout out who's tuned in via LinkedIn from Zambia.

Great to see you, Kelvin.

Your thoughts on the world of returns.

All right, so Lars, there's a long list and we're not going to be able to do it justice here today, of new and best practices for those organizations that really want to act to meet the rising demands for better and more innovative ways to address returns, decrease returns, still delight the customers, but also bake more circularity into global business.

My question for you, Antonio.

Lars, I'm going to start with you.

Here is what would you suggest the couple of priorities should be for business leaders to consider that want to do just that.

We could probably talk for another hour or so.

But maybe I like to get one point here.

I think it's super interesting how a lot of companies now incorporate an end to end void like from cradle to cradle from how you design the product.

And Tony spoke about the why to repair and some of the legislation regions that are changing.

So there's some really nice examples.

I mean Ikea now starting to design products with surflight capabilities.

We have Adidas making shoes that can be fully assembled called Ultra Boost or even in the automotive space.

We have, you know, Stellantis and BMW working on cars that 100% made out of recyclable components.

That's one thing to highlight.

Read this end to end view.

And the second one I would highlight is, you know, super interesting to see that some businesses adopting new commercial models and we heard that before, right?

It's product as a service, it's places to rent, designer clothing.

Right.

There are ways that for example Lenovo HP are looking into what we call product life extensions or second life products certified refurbished device life extensions.

Other example we heard earlier is E.

Commerce Patagonia Warmware, HM Preloth or the sharing economy.

So you know, I would encourage companies to really take the end to end view and look and think about new commercial models towards a circular approach and again and we can help with the logistics around it.

Lars, I love that and Tony, I'm gonna get your response as well.

But one of the most important things I think in Lars response because he mentioned all those companies that are really from Ikea to Adidas, Atlantis B and W, many others that are rethinking their products and more importantly rethinking how they source the components, how they engineer, how they make.

And that is so vitally important in where we are today.

And you know what I would encourage as I'm thinking back of my metal stamping days where we ran into lots of headaches and dead ends.

But then we'd bring more people to those conversations from different functional areas or bring in customers or suppliers.

And that's where we really would come up with some eureka moments, new ideas by making those conversations really holistic.

And I think my hunch is Tony is for those, all those companies Lars mentioned that truly have been successful in rethinking with more circularity and sustainability with how they do stuff.

I bet there's a lot of folks around the table from all functional areas that can look at things differently.

Would you agree with that, Tony?

Oh my God, yes.

That's the thing I had to learn at Philips to be a returns management leader.

You had to deal with every department because nobody wants to own returns, nobody wants to own circularity.

They're willing to be a part of it, but owning it is a challenge.

And Lars spoke very well about the examples of the companies and the other frustration for all of us.

And Lars, you've got that great title.

I still, I love that title.

But it's not like Tony's a fan.

Lars, if we asked what your college degree was in, it had nothing to do with returns or circularity.

We don't have universities teaching people about these ideas.

It's really hard for the companies to come up on their own because it's mind changing.

It's shifting the entire perspective.

But Lars, my degree was Bachelor of General Studies.

How about yours?

I studied management.

When I moved in here.

I had no idea of logistics.

Right.

I just fell in love with it over my career.

Love that.

It's a great point.

In fact, Tony, once we bid ado to Lars here, I want to bring back and talk education with you for just a second because I know something you're passionate about.

But let's do this.

Lars, there's so much more to this conversation as there are on all of our shows, but I really appreciate what you've shared here and your perspective here on the buzz.

I want to make sure folks know how to connect with you.

Lars, they want to talk more about anything you've shared here today.

How can folks reach in?

Well, I would say probably LinkedIn is always a good place to connect to me.

Second one, I mean, I mentioned earlier, I mean, we have the RLA EMEA conference coming up on Amsterdam in June.

So DHL is going to be there.

So if you have a chance, chance, come and meet us.

And then, you know, more info on our website, which is dhl.com would be probably three good ways to get in touch with us and myself.

Outstanding.

Outstanding, folks.

The team's already on it.

Lars, they're dropping your LinkedIn profile right there.

You can connect and follow Lars.

And Also you said dhl.com Lars for the corporate site for all those other things.

And Tony, before we let Lars go, he mentioned the European version version of the RLA conference that's coming up soon.

Is that right?

It is.

And that's more of an RLA EMEA conference covering Europe, Middle east and Africa.

And it's a summit, it's smaller, it's more intimate and we're really focused on European voices because I'm not going to castigate American ness.

I'm just going to say Europe is a smaller space with the same number of people, so they really focus on what can be done about circularity.

And that's the kind of voices we'll.

Have have outstanding, Tony.

So folks, you can again learn more about those events, a lot more programming@rla.org Lars Shadak, global head of returns and circularity at DHL Supply Chain.

A pleasure to meet you and talk with you and learn from you here today.

We hope to have you back soon.

Lars, thanks so much for having me.

You bet.

I like Lars.

Not only is he sharp as a whip, but he's got a great sense of humor and that's a wonderful combination.

So it's great to have Lars with us here today.

All right, so Tony, we got just a couple more minutes.

There's a couple things I wanted to ask you about.

I I want to pick back up on education and again, a couple minutes won't do this justice.

But I was talking about this just the other day with our dear friend Claudia Freed and Rodney Apple who's built one of the best recruiting companies for supply chain in the world.

And all three of us were talking about how supply chain management for logistics, there's been a couple hundred schools, university with four year degrees and then there's a lot more when it comes to technical certifications and degrees and what we need to happen.

And Claudia in particular was pointing out how now there's only maybe a couple, I think she said, of degree awarding university programs for reverse logistics.

And Tony, that is a big problem to your point, huh?

It's been 15 years or so since American Public University offered a bachelor's degree and a master's degree in reverse logistics.

Our good friend Rich Bulger has a master's degree from there.

I'm not aware of any other university in the United States offering a degree in reverse logistics or I'm not even sure circularities out there.

Scott.

Really, there are universities in Europe that really focus on it and offer degrees related to this.

But in the United States, it's only our good friend Oliver Hedgepath, who put this together 15 years ago and created an amazing program and he's got so much enthusiasm for this space and I understand that.

But I will add, Scott, the National Retail Federation has a foundation, education foundation and they have put together the first ever Warehouse Operations for Reverse Logistics program as part of their supply chain course.

And they worked with some of our members including Home Depot, Troy Campbell.

I'll do a shout out to Troy because they focused and they interviewed him about how should you set up a returns facility.

So there is a course, at least it's part of a program.

And that's the beginning of more to come from the nrf.

Hey, I love that.

And you mentioned Rich Bulger, our dear friend, the Dynamo.

I tell you what, folks, folks, check out.

If you're looking for.

If you love all Things Returns and all things Circularity, you ought to check out his new podcast, All Things Circular.

Make sure I got that right.

All Things Circular.

I'm over here doing some googling.

Yeah, All Things Circular.

You can find it wherever you get your podcast from.

And I would highly encourage it.

It's got two thumbs up from the whole supply chain now team.

And I bet it's got a ringing endorsement from Tony Sharota.

Would you agree with that, Tony?

Tony?

I agree with that.

He's not only a friend, he's one of the leading thought leaders in that industry.

He'll be with us in Amsterdam in June.

It's June 25th and 6th.

He's going to offer a master class.

He offered a masterclass in circularity in Las Vegas and we oversold.

It fit everyone in the room.

So he's really done a job and we need it.

As you said, education.

Claudia's right.

We do not have enough of it.

It's learning on a job is not really great when it comes to returns.

Lars would agree with that one, too, no doubt.

We can do better on so many different levels.

And I think this conversation here today, here on the Buzz with Tony and Lars really spoke to not only all the new ways that we're trying to do better, but, you know, you got to celebrate the small wins that we've made in trying to make more progress when it comes to returns management and gaining more circularity in our global supply chains.

And we've got to celebrate those wins because we're going to find a lot of inspiration in the wins and the losses.

Right?

Right.

Gotta find inspiration in both.

But what a great conversation here today.

Tony Schroeder with the Reverse Logistics Association.

Folks can learn more about the EMEA conference.

All the programming you mentioned can be found@rla.org is that right?

Absolutely correct.

Yes.

Wonderful.

And Scott, by the way, thank you for shedding light on the dark side of the supply chain.

You've been an advocate for years and we appreciate it.

And your voice helps to make our voice bigger.

So thank you.

That's our mission and we aim to serve and certainly to amplify, inform, educate, and, hey, frankly, entertain Tony, just like you and Lars here today.

What a great conversation.

We all learned from and enjoyed it as we did it.

So, folks, we have dropped a variety of resources right there in the chat, including Tony's.

LinkedIn is right there.

And you can also learn a whole bunch more about all the other things we do here at Supply Chain now, now via the link in the chat.

Really appreciate everybody being here.

I want to thank again, Lars Chidec with DHL Supply Chain.

I want to thank my friend Tony Sharota with the Reverse Logistics Association.

Tony, come on back.

Always my pleasure doing this and we're.

Gonna have you back soon.

Big thanks Amanda and Trisha behind the scenes.

Most importantly, thanks to all of y'all out there.

I know we couldn't hit everybody's comment and question, but really appreciate y'all being a part of the buzz here today.

But folks, you got homework, Tony?

We're assigning homework.

Homework.

You got to take one thing, folks, one thing you heard here from Lars or from Tony.

You got to put it into practice, share it with your team, right?

But whatever you do, it's all about deeds, not words.

That's how we're going to change the game for the better.

So with all of that said and on behalf the entire team here at Supply Chain Now, Scott Lewton challenging all of y'all to do good, to give forward, and to be the change that's needed.

We'll see you next time right back here on Supply Chain Now.

Thanks, everybody.

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