Intro: Hey folks, it's Marvin Cash, the host of The Articulate Fly.

Intro: On this episode, I'm joined by my friend and tire, Steve Maldonado.

Intro: You may know him by one of his aliases, Skeeter or Johnny Lunchmeat.

Intro: Steve and I discuss his sparkle boat days and his ascent down the slippery slope

Intro: of fly fishing, and we take a deep dive into tying predator flies.

Intro: I think you're going to enjoy this one, but before we get to the interview,

Intro: just a couple of housekeeping items. If you like the podcast,

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Intro: podcatcher of your choice. It really helps us out.

Intro: And a shout out to our sponsor, Trout Routes. I've known Zach and the team at

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Intro: Now, on to our interview.

Marvin: Well, Steve, welcome to The Articulate Fly.

Steve: Thank you, Marvin. Glad to be here.

Marvin: Yeah, I'm super looking forward to our conversation, and we like to start all

Marvin: of our interviews by asking our guests to share their earliest fishing memory.

Steve: Oh, my earliest fishing memory. Well, I grew up in the valley here in southeastern

Steve: Colorado, probably about a mile from the Arkansas River.

Steve: My mom still lives in the same house that I grew up in, which is where I'm sitting right now.

Steve: And, uh, earliest I can remember is, uh, my dad, uh, and I going out to,

Steve: uh, John Martin reservoir.

Steve: Uh, I was probably six or seven years old.

Steve: Uh, nothing fancy spinning rods, worms. We dug up from around my dad's horse corrals.

Steve: He did a lot of cowboying and, uh, I've been obsessed with it ever since,

Steve: uh, just fishing and hunting with my dad.

Steve: Uh, he was hardcore at it and never fly fish, just, uh, fish them worms and

Steve: a spinning rod but he'd catch a bunch of fish.

Marvin: Yeah, and so I have to ask you, since you're with your mom, what's for dinner tonight?

Steve: Probably green chili and homemade tortillas and Mexican rice and the stuff I grew up eating.

Marvin: Wish I was there. That sounds horrible.

Marvin: But, you know, one of the things I know, like I know a lot of people know that you were a Marine.

Marvin: A lot of people know that you're a mechanic for Southwest. And I think even

Marvin: a lot of people know that you're, you know, you were a high school wrestler,

Marvin: but I bet a lot of people don't know that before they found you in the fly fishing

Marvin: world, you were a sparkle boat guy.

Steve: I was, I was, I was, uh, I was hardcore on the tournament trail.

Marvin: Yeah. So that was, I guess you started out with Southwest in Texas.

Marvin: Is that kind of when you were fishing competitively for bass?

Steve: Yeah. And it actually all started, uh, that got me into the bass deal was when

Steve: I was in the Marine Corps, uh, was North Carolina station there.

Steve: And I met, which ended up being my best friend. And I, as a matter of fact,

Steve: when he retired, I got him hired at Southwest and his dad was a,

Steve: a tournament bass fisherman back in the, the Bill Dance and Roland Martin days.

Steve: And he was from, uh, uh, Port St. Lucy, Florida fished. I mean, as a pro on the St.

Steve: John's river and all that. So Sean, you know, had a dad that was actually,

Steve: you know, on the bass tour and he's, you know, he showed me everything that,

Steve: uh, I needed to know in North Carolina.

Steve: We were there for three years bought a john boat together and rented

Steve: a motor on base and and we just fished all

Steve: over have lock and all the rivers there and and uh

Steve: got out went to texas and

Steve: and uh started fishing a lot and and uh

Steve: started winning some tournaments and got you

Steve: know got picked up i was fishing uh uh team

Steve: tournaments on you know bass champs bud light trail uh

Steve: in texas for a well a bunch of

Steve: years i was there for 20 something years uh you know

Steve: i lived uh you know probably 15 minutes

Steve: from lake world famous lake fork it's uh if anybody knows about you know anything

Steve: about bass fishing uh out of the top 50 bats ever caught the united states i

Steve: think like 38 of them come from this lake um and uh i was you know ended up

Steve: fishing these tournaments and did really well and And, and.

Steve: Uh, my partner, Sean Burris was an amazing angler and, and, uh,

Steve: you know, we were runner up for Angler of the Year several times.

Steve: And, you know, I ended up getting sponsored by Denali Rods and,

Steve: and, uh, P-Line and Shimano.

Steve: And, you know, it was, uh, uh, ended up running the boat for RH Landing.

Steve: They got me the boat. All I had to do was fish out of it. I had a 21-foot Legend

Steve: 211 Alpha, 250 Mercury Pro XS, and power poles, and HDS touchscreens, and anything I wanted.

Steve: I just asked for it, but I was doing well enough where I could do it.

Marvin: Yeah, that makes it a whole lot easier to buy the truck to pull the boat, right?

Steve: Exactly. And, you know, it all ended when I moved to Colorado,

Steve: and it was kind of a – it was like almost a meant-to-be deal because I was kind

Steve: of looking into what was going on in Colorado. I'm living in Denver,

Steve: you know, working at DIA.

Steve: I would have to drive to Pueblo, which is lengthy, which, you know,

Steve: when you're a bachelor, it really don't matter.

Steve: But kind of, you know, they have some different rules here, like no wake legs

Steve: and stuff like that. Well, you know, you got a 250 on there.

Steve: You're waking before you get it on plane, and it's almost –,

Steve: It kind of meant to be because when I got rid of all that stuff before I came

Steve: up here, I told Phil right off the bat, I said, had I not done that,

Steve: I said, I would never met you.

Steve: I mean, you probably wouldn't be talking right now because I said I would never have been fly fishing.

Marvin: Yeah, that's neat. And so for folks that don't know, that is Phil Ratstinkawani.

Marvin: So that means you get to officially keep Skeeter if we ever get that project off the ground.

Steve: Yeah.

Marvin: So how did you kind of get into fly fishing? You know, I guess,

Marvin: you know, you move, you're not going to competitively bass angle anymore.

Marvin: You know, when did you get the itch?

Steve: Well, actually, I was still working for Southwest, living in East Texas.

Steve: And one of my great friends down there, J.B. Jarvis, we were running buddies down there.

Steve: And he said, hey, man, let's go to Beaver's Band and let's go try some fly fishing.

Steve: I said, where's that at? and uh we went

Steve: up there and got some uh from the

Steve: bargain cave if everybody remembers that at cabela's we went and

Steve: got some old junk stuff over there i don't even know what kind of

Steve: rods or reels we had we got uh tried

Steve: tying our own flies and and uh went up there well it's a bunch of stalkers and

Steve: uh then you just i mean you throw a cigarette butt out there and they'll eat

Steve: it but uh we were throwing these ugly flies that we were tying and man we thought

Steve: we were the catch now and uh that That was around 2009,

Steve: and we went up there once, and we were hooked on it.

Steve: We had no clue what we were doing at all, but these stalker fish were eating,

Steve: and we kept going back more and more.

Steve: It's just kind of what started it. Like I said, I had no clue what I was doing.

Marvin: Yeah, that's neat, and of course, it's lucky for you. I think the Denver metro

Marvin: area is one of the trout fishiest places in the country in terms of the resource

Marvin: and the shops and all that sort of stuff.

Steve: Right it is it is it's it's phenomenal it's just absolutely phenomenal the there's

Steve: so many options uh you never even have to you know i mean you kind of have to

Steve: uh plan where you're gonna go because it just it just gets in your head and

Steve: you're like wow so many places i could go yeah.

Marvin: And and so you know that i guess that's about 15 years ago you know who are

Marvin: some of the folks that have uh mentored you on your fly fishing journey and

Marvin: what have they taught you.

Steve: Without a doubt phil,

Steve: uh filani is uh number one on the list uh uh that was a kind of a meant to be deal too i mean uh,

Steve: moved up here with southwest uh and i seen a

Steve: big billboard going back home where i was staying before i actually sold my

Steve: house in texas and uh said fly fishing show and i'm thinking oh wow i have to

Steve: check that out and it was at the denver mart didn't know nothing about it uh

Steve: I went there on a Saturday, and there was a jillion people.

Steve: And I got my ticket, and I walked around, and I'm just looking around, and this place is huge.

Steve: And Tammy, my wife, says it was meant to be. I said, because I could have went

Steve: straight, I could have walked left, and I ended up going right.

Steve: I seen a wall with people sitting against the wall, and I was like,

Steve: man, these guys are kind of flies.

Steve: Eyes and i walked around the

Steve: corner and uh there was one guy that

Steve: had just a bubble of people around you can't even see the

Steve: guy and i was kind of standing up you know kind of short like the

Steve: hobbit and i was trying to see who this guy was

Steve: and i'm thinking there's no way i'm going to get up there so

Steve: i i walked to the end and for

Steve: some reason instead of just keep on going i turned around and

Steve: a little uh bubble of people was dispersing i'm

Steve: like i'm gonna walk back here because obviously this guy's somebody because

Steve: there's a ton of people around this guy and i

Steve: walked by and i kind of peeked at him and uh

Steve: he does the same thing uh like jimmy

Steve: houston told people he wanted you know something that

Steve: catches more fish goes hey he goes you want me to show you a fly little catch

Steve: a bunch of fish and i'm like sure and uh we've been best friends ever since

Steve: he uh asked me where i worked and i told him i just moved here did you know

Steve: do you fly fish and And I remember him saying, well, do you eat a tie?

Steve: And I said, not like that.

Steve: And I said, I'm pretty horrible at it. And he's probably, you know, one of my...

Steve: Biggest mentors that showed me everything about nymphing and the small flies

Steve: and the mending and the you know everything that's the streamer game for me

Steve: came later that was kind of my own deals um another one is rick takahashi uh

Steve: rick taught me so much about tying making stuff perfect uh,

Steve: and he's such a humble guy and that humbleness is really roughed up on me uh

Steve: you know as a as a bass Bass guy, he could really be kind of a smarty pants.

Steve: And that's way different than any of the guys that I know now.

Steve: But there's a whole array of them. Scott Stisser, he's probably one of the best

Steve: tires I've ever been around.

Steve: He taught me so much about just making flies perfect.

Steve: He does Atlantic salmon flies and just watching him and him explaining how he

Steve: does stuff and kind of taking me under his wing and explaining just how perfect

Steve: you have to make these things.

Steve: And it's over time and talking to these guys, it's kind of cool when I could

Steve: tie 20 flies and I can have three guys that can, you know, really tie in front of me or watching me.

Steve: And I can throw those 20 flies up in the air and let them hit the table and

Steve: they won't know which one I tied first and which one I tied last because they look exactly the same.

Steve: That's to me is what these guys have done for me.

Marvin: Yeah, that's super neat. And so how long ago was it that you met Phil?

Steve: This will be the 11th year that I met Phil.

Steve: I've been here at DIA for 11 years. So yeah, it's been just that 11 years.

Marvin: Yeah, it's interesting. I can remember going to the Denver Fly Fishing Show,

Marvin: you know, gosh, it was probably, I don't know, three or four years before COVID

Marvin: when it was still at the Mart. And that was a neat place.

Marvin: And I was always super impressed because you could get a Bloody Mary first thing

Marvin: in the morning and walk the show.

Steve: Oh, they were so good.

Marvin: I will say Robert at the Gaylord makes great Bloody Marys, too.

Marvin: So, folks, if you're at the Denver Fly Fishing Show this coming year,

Marvin: look for Robert and tell him Marvin said to make a Bloody Mary for you and he'll hook you up.

Marvin: So, it's interesting to you, right? So, you know, you've got this kind of,

Marvin: you know, conventional background, come back to Colorado, but I know you chase

Marvin: a lot of stuff on the fly now.

Marvin: And so, I was kind of curious, you know, what's your favorite species to chase on the fly? Yeah.

Steve: Uh, like on the fly period.

Marvin: Uh, yeah, on the fly period. And if you need to, I'll give you two cause I feel generous this evening.

Steve: Uh, my number one is tarpon. Hands down is my number one is, is fishing for tarpon.

Steve: Uh, of course the next would be, you know, hard to beat, you know,

Steve: just some big old Browns.

Steve: It's, uh, you know, and they're right up there with carp, carp to me.

Steve: I just soap on, but, but yeah, it's, uh, I'm obsessed with the tarpon fishing.

Steve: And i i go quite a bit every june with a friend of mine that the guys down there

Steve: and it's just uh that's got me uh i don't know it's got me whack over them yeah.

Marvin: It's kind of crazy it's kind of i would say that's probably one of the apex

Marvin: site uh fishing experiences you can have because i can't think of a bigger fish

Marvin: that uh you know people are pursuing on the fly that you get to watch you eat like that, right?

Steve: Oh, yeah, yeah. And I think this June I jumped, well, I got some to the boat,

Steve: but it was 24 that I got in a week period. It was insane.

Marvin: Yeah, that's good clean living, Steve.

Steve: Oh, yeah.

Marvin: So, and in terms of, like, trout places in Colorado, do you have a favorite river you like to fish?

Steve: The Eagle. It's my favorite.

Marvin: And what makes it special for you?

Steve: It's just... Uh, well, it's, it's, it's kind of special because Rim Chong goes there.

Steve: Me and Phil and Rim go fish there a lot. And, uh, uh, that's another guy that's

Steve: just one of my favorite guys to be around.

Steve: He's so humble and he's so patient. He's taught me just patience and he's, he's so funny.

Steve: Him and Phil get after it. Like, uh, oh, like Grumpy Old Man.

Steve: That's like the odd couple, Walter Matthau and Jack Lim.

Steve: And it's so funny the way they tease each other. But I go to the Eagle because of that.

Steve: They like to fish a lot, and it just turned into be one of my favorite rivers.

Steve: There's so many good places to fish there.

Steve: You don't have to drive. You look very far. There's a lot of fish in that river.

Marvin: Very, very neat. And, you know, it sounded like you kind of were bitten by the

Marvin: fly tying bug at the same time you started, became fly fishing curious.

Marvin: But was it really, you know, meeting Phil, say, 10, 11 years ago that kind of

Marvin: made you decide that you really wanted to get serious about it?

Steve: It was. It was, you know, like I said, I started it, you know,

Steve: in 09 with my buddy JB when we started going to Oklahoma.

Steve: But honestly, it's, you know, when I met Phil, that's when my life changed forever.

Steve: It was, it was special.

Marvin: Yeah, that's pretty neat. And

Marvin: so do you remember the, your first vice and the first fly you tied on it?

Steve: Oh yeah. It's, uh, uh, an HMH. You got it out at, uh, the bargain cave once again in Texas.

Steve: And, uh, my first fly was a really ugly hair's ear.

Steve: And a matter of fact, I still have that original fly, uh, you know,

Steve: and a couple of other originals because Tammy said, you know, keep your fly.

Steve: She goes, you might get better at this. She goes, that one's kind of ugly.

Steve: She goes, but you'll always be able to look at your first fly.

Steve: And now it's, I have that one in a shadow box. And then some of my uncle flies, I'm like, wow.

Marvin: Yeah, which is, I mean, it's a pretty cool process to kind of get there in 10 years.

Marvin: I mean, a lot of people, you know, quote, tie their entire lives and never,

Marvin: you know, really make a lot of progress, right?

Steve: Mm-hmm.

Marvin: And so what do you tie on today?

Steve: Day uh you know as i got better uh i was uh don talked to me from uh regal at

Steve: one of the shows and uh i got picked up by regal and and don's been good to

Steve: me and that's that's probably been,

Steve: oh maybe eight years uh that i've been on a regal and and uh he's such a great

Steve: guy that old that old regal family is uh is awesome and and you know the streamers

Steve: that i tie uh you know it's it's uh I'll never change vices.

Steve: I'll never even look at nothing.

Steve: And I've been, you know, approached by all the big guns and Renzettis and all them.

Steve: And I tell them, no, just I'm not even interested.

Steve: It's, you know, Don's real good to me. And I really like the Regal for my style of tying.

Marvin: Yeah. And is it basically the jaw mechanism and how tightly it clamps those

Marvin: big hooks? Is that kind of what you like about the Regal?

Steve: Yeah. It's just a pull the handle, let it go. And the, the, the hooks in there,

Steve: there's no knob adjust in or no, you know, none of the stuff it's,

Steve: uh, um, and you know, and I tie big flies and, you know, if I need some 24s,

Steve: uh, I'll just get them from Phil.

Marvin: He'll have that little, uh, that little drug dealer Ziploc bag that he carries with him.

Steve: Yeah.

Marvin: Um, and, uh, he'll, he'll set you up, uh, for sure.

Marvin: Or the, um, that's funny. And so, you know, I know you mentioned Scott Stisser

Marvin: and Rick Takahashi and Phil, but, you know, you know, I, those guys are,

Marvin: you know, to me, they're kind of, I mean, Scott, not, not really.

Marvin: Cause he does a salmon fly thing, but like, you know, Rick and Phil are to me

Marvin: are like, you know, mountain West fly tires.

Marvin: Right. But, but you're, you know, when I think of you and I know you've got,

Marvin: you know, trout, you know, buggy trout patterns with thumb quote,

Marvin: but I think of you as a predator dude, right?

Marvin: Yeah. And so, you know, who are some of the tires that you kind of follow,

Marvin: you know, on that predator fly front?

Steve: Oh, I mean, that's such an easy list for me. It's, of course,

Steve: one of my friends, Kelly Gallop, Blaine Chocolate, of course.

Steve: But that whole group, Russ Madden, Strolis, you know, Alex Lofka, Chad Johnson, Schmidt.

Steve: On that end, and, you know, I tie with all those guys at the Streamer Love Test.

Steve: Steve Daly's another one.

Steve: Just how can you not follow these guys? I mean, it's just meet,

Steve: you know, meet greatness is what I call them.

Marvin: Yeah dude it's uh it's kind of all those guys are kind of crazy it's kind of

Marvin: funny as you're kind of ticking through the names i was lucky you know some

Marvin: of the guys that travel more i i've been able to kind of spend time with but

Marvin: i mean a ton of those guys were up at schultz's event at bob in the hood yeah.

Steve: Yeah it's uh i was on the back burner for that i'm hoping i get in this year

Steve: i was i was late getting uh when i was uh um just they were waiting for somebody

Steve: to drop out and i I would have got in. Hopefully I get in there this year.

Marvin: Well, fingers crossed. It's a fun time. And, dude, that is, you know,

Marvin: folks, if you are about Predator streamers, that is an insanely awesome event.

Marvin: It's, you know, it's not huge. You get to spend time with everybody.

Marvin: It's a lot of fun. The culture at Schultz Outfitters is a great culture.

Marvin: And, you know, they, you know, it's not just fly. They do gear, too.

Marvin: And just a super, super great kind of old school way a fly shop should run.

Marvin: And, you know, Steve, one of the things I'm always interested about,

Marvin: you know, when you get, you know, fly designers as opposed to fly tires,

Marvin: right, is, you know, tell me a little bit about kind of your design philosophy,

Marvin: you know, for Predator flies and kind of what you think it takes to make an

Marvin: effective Predator fly. Okay.

Steve: Uh, my, my philosophy on that, I mean, it really, uh, uh, about like my whole

Steve: thing with, with my tying style now, I mean, uh, my predator stuff goes back

Steve: to my, you know, fishing the bass days.

Steve: And, and when I really started to, to think about doing this,

Steve: uh, I was thinking if I can make a fly mimic a fluke or a jerk bait,

Steve: which is my style of retrieving, uh, I would have something.

Steve: And so, I mean, that was my whole process, you know, when I sit at the bench, uh,

Steve: um, and I mean, you know, the head, the tail and the, the, the articulation,

Steve: uh, um, all that to me plays, I mean, it plays a lot into the, into the fly.

Steve: Uh but you know being on the bass tour i mean it's uh i mean if i threw a fluke

Steve: out there and i just reeled it in i wouldn't get nothing it's it's it to me

Steve: it's all about the retrieve.

Steve: It's it's really getting that fly to to make it do stuff um um it's kind of

Steve: hard to explain for guys that don't gear fish i mean it's uh um it's real funny

Steve: because people look at me when i'm when when I'm a streamer fishing,

Steve: cause it's just a whole different thing.

Steve: It's the people that do the, and I mean, no offense with the way people do stuff,

Steve: but I mean the strip, strip, stop, stop, strip, strip, strip.

Steve: Yeah. That's not even in my vocabulary.

Steve: It's, it's all like fishing a jerk bait. You want to make that fly move with

Steve: your rod, not with your line. All you're doing with your line is just taking up slack.

Steve: If you can pop that fly and make it move with your rod tip, up.

Steve: And not even mess with the line then you're gonna

Steve: you're gonna you're gonna start catching a bunch of fish and that's when you you

Steve: know make fish bite uh that really don't

Steve: want to bite uh but i put all that in my my

Steve: you know my predator fly kind of deal so to me it's just

Steve: uh it always reflects to my best days and

Steve: how my patterns are going to react you know with my style of you

Steve: know uh retrieving you know whether it's in

Steve: a you know current slack water which i love to fish uh

Steve: slack water for big trout with a lot of people in

Steve: the drift boat will just zip right by it and uh zip right

Steve: by some of the biggest fish they're around um so i put a lot of hours of testing

Steve: into into these flies just uh to see if they'll retrieve like i want them to

Steve: look and i do a lot of on the you know whatever you call it on the bank tuning

Steve: and the drift boat tuning i mean sometimes i'll hack them down to nothing yeah.

Marvin: I mean and so so for people that know like if they've watched,

Marvin: you know, conventional guys fish, I mean, I can see you basically retrieving

Marvin: line and pumping the rod tip, right?

Steve: Yes. Yes. And, and, and, uh, really it's, uh, that's all you're doing.

Steve: I'm, I'm just holding that rod tip down and I'm pumping that rod tip.

Steve: And if you see my hand coming back, it has nothing to do with moving that fly.

Steve: It's just getting the slack out of the way.

Steve: So I can keep that line tight to the fly. And, and, you know,

Steve: I go back to, you know, um,

Steve: one of the quotes in Kelly Gallop, you know, uh, like I said,

Steve: to me it goes to the retrieve but you know ellie always said you know fish aren't

Steve: looking to see how many things are wrong with your fly they're looking to see

Steve: how many things are right with your fly but in the end it's the retrieve is

Steve: what makes it effective yeah.

Marvin: And so with that pump you're basically what you're getting is you're getting

Marvin: a left right darting but you're also getting kind of that kill where kind of

Marvin: the tail kind of crumples over the head.

Steve: Yeah exactly so i'm i'm basically trying to walk the dog under water and i'll

Steve: pop pop pop and i'll kill it and then pop pop pop and I'll kill it.

Steve: And then usually it'll, that fish will come and you'll see them come and you'll

Steve: pop, pop, pop. And they're interested.

Steve: And it's not like a tarpon. When you miss it, you miss a strip, they're gone.

Steve: Uh, they'll see that thing start fluttering like it's wounded.

Steve: And as soon as you give it another pop pop, they, they can't stop.

Steve: They just eat it. It's a, it's pretty incredible.

Marvin: It's like Doritos.

Steve: Yeah.

Marvin: But it's interesting. So, you know, if you're, you are not, uh,

Marvin: animating the fly by stripping, does that mean that you're, does you're getting

Marvin: that, the swim action that you want, probably not with a lot of articulations

Marvin: and probably with more of a waiting and kind of head design in the fly?

Steve: Yeah, it's, it's really the, the head design, uh, to me that makes a, a huge difference.

Steve: Uh, when I do the heads, uh, and I've told people this when I do all my,

Steve: my time demos and, and, and just in general, um, if you watch my videos, is when I put the eyes on a,

Steve: I want them eyes just sticking out where they're almost goofy looking when you

Steve: look at the fly from the front.

Steve: The worst thing you could do to me, I mean, that I've noticed is people put

Steve: eyes on, they squeeze them together, and it just kills the action of the fly.

Steve: The way I put my eyes on makes my jungle junkie.

Steve: I mean, you can tie one that's white where you can do it clear water and just

Steve: pop it, pop it, pop it, and it's basically just zigzagging back and forth underwater

Steve: like a zero spook on top. but it's doing it under the water.

Steve: And I've tried it all kinds of different ways here in this, you know,

Steve: evergreen lake that's clear as a bell.

Steve: And I've squeezed the eyes a little bit, squeezed down a little bit more and

Steve: you get to a point where that thing just goes sideways.

Steve: And I mean, it's just, it's, you know, it'll sell the fishermen,

Steve: but it won't catch no fish.

Marvin: Yeah. So it sounds like you like a wedge head, right?

Steve: Yeah. Kind of like a wedge head.

Marvin: Yeah. Yeah. That's, that's super neat. because it's always interesting it's

Marvin: like you know some people love articulation some people are tying you know swim

Marvin: flies and it's the weight right uh and.

Steve: You know.

Marvin: They're they're wrapping the the hooks with lead wire to kind of get the get

Marvin: that kind of kill that they want but you know you mentioned the jungle junkie

Marvin: and i know that's kind of the pattern i know there's the jungle junkie junior as well um.

Steve: Yeah but.

Marvin: Uh tell me a little bit about the fishing problems you were were trying to solve

Marvin: when you designed that fly.

Steve: Uh well i mean

Steve: yeah that it was uh it was

Steve: basically just uh what i was wanting to

Steve: do is is get a fly that i could uh pretty much

Steve: walk the dog uh underwater uh and just

Steve: make it do the jerking motions that a

Steve: fluke does uh almost kind of like you

Steve: know some of blaine's you know stuff when when the t-bone you

Steve: know when you jerk that that thing just go sideways um and

Steve: i wanted something like that that i could work fast under

Steve: the water just pop pop pop pop pop and and uh and one

Steve: that i could do it every time uh you know that wouldn't roll over on its side

Steve: sometimes and you know you have to dry it out and then you know you'd fish it

Steve: and it'd come be it you'd be okay that's it and i'll send it roll over on its

Steve: side it took a lot of a lot of uh trial and error and getting like to get the

Steve: head right and the amount of material

Steve: uh to get that thing right um and and like i said it's a it's a fish catching

Steve: machine i mean landon's wore it out in argentina and i've had it in brazil with pat dorsey and,

Steve: and uh uh nick from lamson took it to argentina i said it's the best you know

Steve: i had a bunch of magazines but it's uh you got to do your part uh with the with

Steve: uh you know and i had told these guys about the retrieve it's uh it's a cool

Steve: fly but if you do the strip strip stop uh it probably going to be one of your worst enemies.

Marvin: Yeah. And mentioning that, does that then mean that you like to fish a rod that's

Marvin: probably more like a bass rod that's stiffer in the tip?

Steve: Not necessarily, because Loomis has that NRX, that 8-foot by 6-inch,

Steve: and it's built for fishing off the boat where you can hold your rod down and

Steve: pop it like a jerkbait rod.

Steve: But it's got some flex in it, and it has to have a soft tip somewhat so you can work that fly.

Steve: Eye if it's if it's uh if it's too stiff um it'll just uh it'll it'll pretty

Steve: much just start scooting towards you and it doesn't give it the chance to really

Steve: go to the side by side uh when they came out with that rod it was like yeah

Steve: i gotta have it it's uh it's phenomenal yeah.

Marvin: It's interesting because i think about like how you know a lot of the rod companies

Marvin: have these like you know medium fast to the fast side of the action and the.

Steve: Those tips.

Marvin: Tend to be like particularly like of a troutier ride they tend to be softer like nothing wrong with.

Steve: Them it's just not.

Marvin: The right tool right for that job um.

Steve: Exactly but.

Marvin: You know back to the to the design on the jungle junkie so you know what was

Marvin: the secret sauce in the head was it the shape or the material or kind of a combination of the two i.

Steve: Think it was the street it's a it's uh and that fly is just strictly a

Steve: little bit of a tail and uh american tide flies aaron letero makes this uh magnum

Steve: dub and uh it's it's just longer than the short the seniors won't do it uh i

Steve: mean there's nothing wrong with the laser dub uh i don't ever use it it's too

Steve: short for for streamers for big streamers it's just uh,

Steve: It doesn't do right, and, you know, you could pile it on and pile it on,

Steve: and then, you know, you're really in a mess because your flies don't work right.

Steve: But it's all about the head that makes this thing and the way you put the eyes on.

Steve: If you squeeze the eyes whatsoever, it just doesn't work.

Steve: And, you know, I got a lot of pics of my flies facing you, and the eyes are

Steve: really flared out sideways.

Steve: Ways and and uh it's just the way the hydraulic works and

Steve: the water push uh it's uh

Steve: it's pretty phenomenal uh the way the hydraulic uh uh push affects the way that

Steve: fly just pops from side to side and it does it repeatedly and it never tilts

Steve: to one side or the other it just stays uh it just stays straight and and and

Steve: uh and uh man they come and they sure come and get it yeah.

Marvin: It sounds like You need a new sticker when you're tying next show season in

Marvin: 2025 that says, don't squeeze the eyes.

Steve: Yeah.

Steve: I've had people come over there when I put it on my little clip and set it there.

Steve: First thing they do is they pick it up and they squeeze the eyes.

Steve: And I tell them, I said, you can have that.

Steve: Really? And I'm like, well, yeah. And then they walk up and I go,

Steve: well, that ain't going to work.

Marvin: So was the Jungle Junkie the first pattern that Umqua Feather Merchants picked up from you?

Steve: It was it was the first one uh uh that

Steve: they picked up and it was uh yeah and

Steve: it was a different name i designed it for

Steve: a pike fly because you know i do love to pike fish and you know i do it here

Steve: i do it and my wife from michigan i pike fish a lot and uh it was a pike fly

Steve: hands down i mean that was no uh no you know joking around uh and when i went

Steve: there to umpqua to turn it in uh that's That's when the late Dave Student was there.

Steve: And, man, was he tough. It was...

Steve: He looked at it and uh he liked it immediately i mean usually they yeah would

Steve: do the waiting period and the whole thing i mean they didn't just pick it up

Steve: like it made instantly but,

Steve: when he uh when i found out that the committee picked

Steve: it up uh he called me and uh i went in there to see him and and i had so much

Steve: respect for him it just uh it was just he just seemed like the guy you didn't

Steve: want to play with and he said stevie goes we're gonna you know pick up your

Steve: flag goes uh but uh i want to change the name on it i said i don't care what

Steve: you call it you put it in your catalog, you can call it whatever you want.

Steve: And he said, we're going to try it as a South America fly. He goes, I think it'll be great.

Steve: He goes, and sure enough, he goes, how about we call it the Jungle Junkie?

Steve: And I said, that's awesome.

Steve: So I can't tell people that I named it. It was Dave that changed the name on

Steve: it. And man, it's just been a wildfire fly.

Steve: You know, Yellow Dog says it's one of their top South America flies that they sell.

Marvin: That's super cool. So what was, you know, kind of stepping back a little bit,

Marvin: kind of what's that normal kind of UMQA selection process for, uh, what's it like?

Steve: It's tough. I mean, it is, uh, it is tough.

Steve: Um, it just, it's, yeah, it's so tough to say the least.

Steve: I mean, the best hires in the country on this thing and, and it's,

Steve: uh, and actually the guys that pushed me towards this was Rick and Phil.

Steve: They were, Rick was probably the biggest pusher of it.

Steve: One of the fly tying shows and I had this, that very fly.

Steve: And when I showed it to him, he goes, what? He goes, you gotta admit,

Steve: nobody ties flies like this around here. He goes, it's all tiny stuff.

Steve: And I said, he goes, you need to go find Dave and show him that fly. And I said, who?

Steve: And, you know, I went to meet him and then went through the process.

Steve: But, I mean, it's just, you know, me and Phil always joke about,

Steve: you know, getting through Dave's student, you know, going through the gauntlet.

Steve: We called it going through the gauntlet. You made it through him, and the fly was perfect.

Steve: I mean, it's not that they're not now, but, I mean, he was tough.

Steve: And then you got the whole process of the committee. Most are on the,

Steve: you know, U.S. fly fishing team, Josh Graff and Russ Miller.

Steve: And there's just a bunch more. It's just really tough, you know.

Steve: And what people don't realize is just because you have a fly in the catalog

Steve: doesn't mean you're a shoo-in.

Steve: I mean, me as well as a bunch of other people, you take your Umpqua Hot Shot

Steve: and you're going in there going, hey, I got another fly that's been,

Steve: and they're just like, yeah, we don't like that one. And you're like, what?

Steve: So it's tough.

Marvin: And so, you know, for tires that aspire to have Umpqua or another shop pick

Marvin: up their flies to produce, do you have any tips for them?

Steve: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, I mean, it's.

Steve: Number one would be just.

Steve: Open up your imagination and stick to your guns and sit there at the vice with

Steve: the bare hook on there and just, just think about, just open up your imagination,

Steve: put your imagination and put it on the hook.

Steve: And, and, um, you know, that's number one. Uh, number two would be, uh, tie a lot.

Steve: Tie every day if you can, even if it's just a little, a little fly,

Steve: uh, um, you know, just tie a lot and refine your techniques, uh, with, uh, you know.

Steve: Thing i got from kelly you know is your thread pressure

Steve: your thread pressure is the number one priority to

Steve: make everything perfect uh that that to

Steve: me trumps everything is thread pressure you know

Steve: keep my you know an eye on that

Steve: uh and number three would be

Steve: fish them a lot you know uh like i said do some you know some bank trimming

Steve: weekend take some scissors with you uh and you know i'm talking streamers you

Steve: know and fish them a lot and i mean fish a lot and sometimes you don't have

Steve: to be fishing for a fish just don't you know see where you can how you retrieve that fly

Steve: and if it's doing you know not kind of what you want it to do it's got to do

Steve: exactly what you want it to do uh and you know that's a recommendation and i just tell people i mean,

Steve: if you stop at any point and say oh man that's close enough for me it ain't

Steve: good enough i'll tell you that right now it's got to be right and it's got to

Steve: be exactly like you make it you want want it to be yeah.

Marvin: Because they've got some serious anglers are going to go out and fish those flies right.

Steve: Oh unbelievable unbelievable yeah.

Marvin: And so if we come down to you know down down from mount olympus down to where

Marvin: all the mere mortal fly tires live.

Steve: Um i.

Marvin: Always like to ask you know people like you and phil and you know people that

Marvin: production tie you know if you have like three tying tips that you can share

Marvin: you know again with us mere mortal tires that can kind of help us you know know,

Marvin: make our life at the vice a little bit better.

Steve: Um just uh i mean three tips to make you better tire yep uh,

Steve: tie something every day if you possibly can i mean it's uh um and and don't get too uh,

Steve: don't get too sucked in the rabbit hole uh with you know a bunch of uh you know

Steve: techniques and and watching you know just you know there's there's so much stuff

Steve: you can watch and so So many guys you can watch, uh,

Steve: like the list that I gave out that I follow.

Steve: And I mean, just get a little bit from each of them and, and, uh, make your own way.

Steve: Uh, it's just, uh, you know, that's, that's another one.

Steve: And, and, uh, just, uh, have confidence in what you're doing.

Steve: I mean, just, uh, and don't give up and just, just, you know,

Steve: get better at it and, and just, that's it.

Marvin: Yeah. How, how about, um, so I know you do a lot with like, uh,

Marvin: deer hair and things like that. had any tips for like handling hair um that you can give folks.

Steve: Uh get good thread uh you know it's a you know just get strong thread and make

Steve: sure that you clean your hair i mean it's just you can't clean it enough uh

Steve: there's always an under for you know just just you can't get it completely clean.

Steve: Um, and I, I don't really spin my hair at all.

Steve: Um, it's, uh, I get just a gigantic clump and, uh, um, I just,

Steve: I just, I stack it, kind of stack it, but I stack it around the whole hook and,

Steve: and then I'll make a three wraps and I'll just, you know, pull it tight.

Steve: And, uh, to me, it works a lot better. I tie a lot of mice, you know,

Steve: uh, like we talked about the night fishing.

Steve: I mean, I tie a lot of mice with caribou hair and, uh, that works better than

Steve: spinning. It's more consistent, uh, when you do that, uh, learn how to do that.

Steve: Um, and, and it's, uh, it's, it's easier and it's way more consistent.

Marvin: Yeah. And then in terms of like, you know, uh, like dubbing,

Marvin: are you, you know, I know you mentioned that, uh, like laser dub was too short,

Marvin: right. For the jungle junkie.

Marvin: Uh, are you, are you spinning noodles or are you doing dubbing loops?

Steve: Uh, I do, I do dubbing loops. Yeah.

Marvin: Got it. Uh, anything you want to share with folks there?

Steve: Yeah. Don't make them too long. You can make a loop way too long and it just,

Steve: and there again, that goes back to your thread control.

Steve: Um, you can always put another one on there.

Steve: Uh, so don't try to get everything on at once.

Steve: Uh, if you can't handle the, you know, the, the thread pressure,

Steve: where it's the same, make a short loop.

Steve: And a lot of times, all you need is a short loop.

Steve: And just make sure as you're wrapping around and you're preening everything back,

Steve: just make sure your thread pressure stays the same all the way around there

Steve: because you don't want to have a slide that's a couple of wraps of tight thread

Steve: and then you got three or four of loose thread and then tight thread because

Steve: a tooth will get in there and it's over.

Marvin: Yeah, it'll become loose and broken thread.

Steve: Absolutely. Yeah.

Marvin: So, you know, doing the dubbing noodles, have you ever, I mean,

Marvin: do you venture into kind of brush land or have you kind of stayed out of the brush world?

Steve: No, I figure some brushes. I mean, the brushes are kind of cool.

Steve: And I have the little Stompo Turbo Twister.

Steve: I make a lot of my own brushes, especially for the big pike flies because I

Steve: can get these things that just look nasty. And, and, uh, you can't buy it.

Steve: You can't buy those kind of brushes, uh, that you can create on your own.

Steve: And, uh, um, you know, that's just, uh, I really do like making my own.

Marvin: Yeah. It's funny you say that. That reminds me of seeing David from squimpage

Marvin: flies and Edison making brushes. And that was a pretty amazing thing to watch.

Steve: Oh yeah. Yeah. Cause you look at it and you're like, man, you can't even buy

Steve: nothing like that. And you can't.

Marvin: Yeah. And I mean that whole, you know, to me, I think that makes me think about

Marvin: Bob Popovich and, you know, him solving that size mass problem in fly fishing.

Marvin: And it's just amazing, like beast flies and stuff like that.

Steve: Oh, yeah, yeah. It's pretty amazing.

Marvin: Yeah. So I know you're a tinkerer, right? And so I know, like,

Marvin: people that tie a lot, they're always playing around.

Marvin: Like, they've either found a material that they're experimenting with or they're

Marvin: trying to figure out a new way to glue their fingers together with the latest

Marvin: resin. And what are you playing around with on your time bench right now?

Steve: Oh, right now it's a Semperfly came out with some new, new stuff.

Steve: It's, uh, uh, just, well, they have a whole bunch of new, their,

Steve: their, their stuff is so amazing.

Steve: Uh, they got a bunch of new stuff they come out with for, I'm,

Steve: I'm messing around with streamers, uh, um, with, uh, just some of their dubbing. That's like crazy long.

Steve: And, and, uh, uh, some of their chenille, that's just the colors is just crazy.

Steve: And they have so many different lengths of it.

Steve: Um, so I'm, I'm, I'm messing around with that right now. And,

Steve: and, uh, it's been working pretty good.

Steve: It's, uh, I'm working on a new top water, uh, frog, you know,

Steve: for bass, you know, uh, I can get over to Texas and, uh, you know,

Steve: hit the lily pads and, uh, fish around that thick hydrilla and,

Steve: uh, it's going to be weedless and it's, uh, and it's articulated.

Marvin: Oh, there you go.

Steve: Yeah.

Marvin: Yeah. That's funny. Cause I was, uh, I was talking to some guys from,

Marvin: uh, rather outdoors when we were flying back for my cast and you know they were

Marvin: uh i was like the space alien right because i was a fly fisherman and and so

Marvin: uh you know i was telling them that there are some instances where the fly rod

Marvin: is a better tool and to me fishing lily pads is one of those oh.

Steve: It's it's hands down awesome.

Marvin: Yeah you know and i just like and they're like well why is that i was like well

Marvin: guys because you don't have to bring everything back to the boat every time

Marvin: i was like dudes when you're done just lift it and put it back yeah.

Steve: Yeah it's uh you know and

Steve: then with you know like i said with that with that technique i use for the

Steve: streamers here for trout i mean it's the same thing you know i would do you

Steve: know with the frog uh you know on a bait caster and you get that rod down and

Steve: you just pop it you can zip it in between lily pads pop it on another one zip

Steve: it off pop it on another one uh you know you try doing the strip strip strip

Steve: that ain't gonna work i've tried it.

Marvin: Yeah Yeah, you might make a salad. Yeah. So the other thing I like to ask super

Marvin: avid tires is, you know, I bet you that you have some super oddball tool that

Marvin: you may have even made yourself that you can't live without.

Steve: I can even without a doubt tell you that's that stupid finger brush I have.

Marvin: Is it a cat brush? Is that what that is?

Steve: No, it's like an Enrico Poblisi. It looks like a dog brush, but it's just big

Steve: enough that you can put your finger in it.

Steve: And, uh, it's just for, for brushing out streamers and brushing out dubbing

Steve: and care or whatever that little finger brush is just, uh, uh,

Steve: yeah, I mean, it's, uh, it's funny. It's a, they ever quit making their luck with time.

Marvin: Yeah, it's funny. So you're the second person probably within the last two months

Marvin: that had mentioned that as their favorite tool.

Marvin: Adam Hortenberry, I interviewed him to help him promote his flytine event,

Marvin: the Rhode Island Fly Bash.

Steve: Oh, yeah, yeah.

Marvin: That's his favorite tool. And I think, you know what I think it is? I think it's a cat brush.

Steve: Yeah. And it's, it looks like a cat brush. It's just, you can put,

Steve: you can put it on your, you know, your finger index finger, middle finger,

Steve: wherever, and just, uh, it does the best job for brushing, brushing,

Steve: dubbing out. It's just ridiculous.

Marvin: Oh, well, there you go, folks. And, you know, so I know you're chasing Tarpon,

Marvin: you know, you've been down in South America, Central America,

Marvin: you know, do you have any kind of travel or hosted trips you want to share with our listeners?

Steve: Yeah, you know, it's a, I got some open spots, you know, if anybody's interested,

Steve: I'm hosting a trip with, to Brazil, you know, on Rio de Lua,

Steve: October 18th through the 27th with Nomadic Waters and Michael Williams.

Steve: And let me tell you what, what a great organization.

Steve: Michael's just top-notch. His guides are, you know, when I went over there with

Steve: Pat, I mean, these guys are the best in the business for doing what they do.

Steve: And Michael's operation with the cooks and the way you get treated and the equipment

Steve: is, you know, talking boat stuff because, you know, you're taking your own fly.

Steve: But they supply stuff if you don't have them.

Steve: And for people out there that don't fly fish and say, you know,

Steve: I want to give that a shot.

Steve: They got spinning reels and all the hard baits and, you know,

Steve: sassy shad, whatever it is they have.

Steve: But it's top notch and it's unbelievable.

Steve: The five days we were there, there was, I think, six of us fishing.

Steve: And they keep their little baseball clicker because they get back to the main

Steve: boat and they argue about who's the best guide.

Steve: And it's funny. They're just like us. You just can't understand them.

Steve: It's hilarious. And, uh, I think we landed over 3000 fish in, in five days.

Marvin: Yeah. It's interesting too. And Michael does a great job. And I think the great

Marvin: thing, you know, it starts with great people, right?

Marvin: You know, Mike, it does, you know, Michael and his U S team are great.

Marvin: The people he has down there are great, but I also would say,

Marvin: you know, his approach makes fishing in a very inhospitable place,

Marvin: very comfortable with the houseboat and kind of running off the boat.

Steve: Very comfortable and and uh it's uh like i said if anybody wants to get a hold

Steve: of me on that i got spots open uh we're only taking eight people on this trip

Steve: i'm hosting so it's not going to be a boat full of people um i said i got a

Steve: few spots if you're interested get a hold of me and uh,

Steve: and grab a 10 weight and it's on there.

Marvin: You go and uh you know is there anything else steve before i let you go to get

Marvin: to your green chilies because i know you told me i know one thing that you should

Marvin: you tell me about is your trip to Ireland, but is there anything else?

Steve: Oh, yeah, well, you know, just, I mean, the basic, you know,

Steve: stuff that did this, I tell,

Steve: you know, people to get better, just, you know, start fishing a lot and tie

Steve: more and, you know, and really go out and try to, you know, dissect your river,

Steve: your lake or wherever it is you're fishing.

Steve: Fishing and uh um you know it's just

Steve: uh um you'll know when you

Steve: arrive when you really start you know uh getting to the

Steve: point where uh you know you're going

Steve: to try to find the fish it doesn't want to be found and then you know get

Steve: your ability to the point where you can catch the fish that doesn't want to

Steve: be caught and that's just uh one of the things and you know one of the things

Steve: i always tell people at my seminars uh when i do the tie-in at demos or you

Steve: know it's out wherever i go and i get up there and and uh i tell people getting

Steve: bites builds confidence,

Steve: and confidence builds more bites and that's what it's

Steve: all about you know find your confidence streamer settle down and fish it and

Steve: every time you go to the river you're going to get a little bit better uh and

Steve: don't be afraid to switch it up you know and and and barrier retrieves clear

Steve: water versus dirty water high

Steve: water low water you know find out what they want feed it to them and And,

Steve: you know, just find yourself a simple system and make it work for you.

Steve: And, you know, I always tell people at the last, you know, last part of that.

Steve: And I said, don't use your line to move the fly.

Marvin: Yeah, those can be fighting words in some parts. But when do you head across

Marvin: the pond and go to Ireland?

Marvin: You were invited to go, Ty. Was it the English Fly Time Fair?

Steve: Yeah, the Irish Fly Fest, which is in Northern Ireland. And that is...

Steve: The middle of november we're we're flying into dublin tammy's going with me

Steve: and uh we're going to rent a car

Steve: and i made sure they gave me one with the steering wheel on the right side,

Steve: and which i had to pay extra for so it was i didn't

Steve: care and uh uh we're gonna drive into northern ireland it's about a two and

Steve: a half hour drive and uh it's not it's not just a few americans ever get invited

Steve: to this and uh um i didn't think i had the you know what flies they you know

Steve: i'm I'm thinking, what am I going to tie up there?

Steve: Well, they want me to tie my streamers, and that's why I got invited.

Marvin: Yeah, they want pike flies, right?

Steve: Yep, they want some pike stuff, big stuff.

Marvin: Yeah, and so have you started to kind of pencil in your 2025 show season so

Marvin: people want to come and kind of hang out with you because you'll be sitting

Marvin: next to Phil, and Rick will be sitting on the other side of Phil, right?

Steve: Oh, yeah, yeah. I mean, Denver show for sure, and we talked, I'm going to do Atlanta.

Steve: Uh and uh um i can't do the uh the symposium because i think that's the same

Steve: time i'll be in ireland and uh i'm gonna try to hit a bunch of them uh you know

Steve: just uh i do the salvo ground up i'm gonna go i get invited every year to do

Steve: the streamer love fest so that's that's a blast,

Steve: uh hopefully i make it up to the boxcar this year if i get a you know get a

Steve: shot for that and uh And that'll be awesome.

Steve: But I'll hit just a bunch of shows. I'm going to try to hit a bunch and hook up with Landon.

Steve: And I get such a deal on the rental car with my Southwest deal.

Steve: And it's nice to hang around Landon. I'm going to go to Virginia again to that.

Steve: And I'll go back to Texas, New Braunfels. That show was phenomenal.

Steve: I'll be back down there to that.

Steve: So there's quite a bit. I'll make sure I post a bunch of them on my website.

Steve: But I'm going to try to hit a bunch of them.

Marvin: Yeah, that sounds cool. You have to come hang out in Atlanta in the Articulate Fly Hospitality Suite.

Marvin: There's always goodies and ample alcohol.

Steve: Absolutely. Yeah.

Marvin: And so we didn't touch on this, but you actually will tie custom fly orders

Marvin: for folks. If folks want to get some flies from you, what should they do?

Steve: Uh just you can contact me on instagram uh you know it's a maldo at goose killer k-i-l-l-a 67,

Steve: uh facebook just get on my name send me a personal message

Steve: and uh um i'll tie whatever you want um and i won't change what you want or

Steve: try to explain to you something different that i like and i'll tie them exactly

Steve: like you want them uh and uh just you know any colors you want any style you

Steve: want uh doesn't have to be streamers

Steve: or whatever it is i'll tie it for you and just get Get ahold of me.

Marvin: Yeah. And just because, you know, sometimes fishermen are not great planners.

Marvin: Um, what's the lead time on your custom fly orders generally?

Steve: Uh, if you put in, if, if you was to what's today, Thursday. Yep.

Steve: If you put in, if you put in an order today on a, on a few dozen,

Steve: uh, maybe even the streamers, uh, I'll have them, I'll have them to you by next, by this coming Friday.

Marvin: Well, there you go. Yeah. That's that great. You, uh, you've worked those double

Marvin: shifts at the airport. So you got a bunch of days stacked off, right?

Steve: Yeah. Yeah, well, you know, I take my stuff over there and I tie it there, too.

Marvin: Oh, which I forgot to ask you. What's your favorite glue for gluing on door plugs on airplanes?

Steve: No, it's just Elmer's.

Marvin: Well, there you go.

Steve: I think we have a problem with those because we're using wood glue,

Steve: and I don't think the metal is attached.

Marvin: Oh, you didn't do the glue joint where you put glue on both ends and let it

Marvin: dry and then glued it again?

Steve: No.

Marvin: Oh, man. But just for the record, you guys don't have any of those airplanes in your fleet, right?

Steve: We do not. No. Yeah.

Marvin: I didn't think you had any Boeings, but Lord knows United does.

Steve: Oh, yeah. Yeah.

Marvin: Well, that's funny. And so, back to get a little bit more serious before we

Marvin: go, what's the best way for folks to follow your adventures at the vice and

Marvin: on the water and in the field? Because you hunt elk, right? Yeah.

Steve: Oh, yeah. Yeah, I do. I mean, just follow me on Instagram. That's where I post everything.

Steve: I got a lot of YouTube, but, you know, I got a lot of videos in the works.

Steve: As a matter of fact, I'm editing some stuff and I'm going to plaster a whole

Steve: bunch of videos coming up here in about two weeks on just techniques and just,

Steve: you know, how to put the eyes on and all that stuff.

Marvin: Well, there you go. And, you know, I will drop all that stuff,

Marvin: Steve, for you in the show notes.

Marvin: And I don't want to keep you from dinner, but I really appreciate you hanging

Marvin: out with me a little bit tonight.

Steve: No, thank you, Marvin. It's been a pleasure. I always enjoy talking with you,

Steve: hanging out with you when I see you.

Steve: And you've got a great show, and I appreciate you even asking me to be on it.

Steve: I'm honored. I am. Thank you.

Marvin: Oh, I'm honored to have you. When we're done with the interview,

Marvin: we've got to get the Eastern-style, North Carolina-style barbecue cook-off calendared up, too.

Steve: Absolutely. Absolutely. And I'll keep in touch with you.

Marvin: You bet. Take care.

Intro: Well, folks, we hope you enjoyed the interview as much as we enjoyed bringing it to you.

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Intro: Tight lines, everybody.