So you've been to a lot of festivals twice, right?

I haven't.

Yeah.

Have you seen Weiss wear anything?

Very compromising.

All the time.

That's all he wears.

That's what I like to hear.

Yep.

Do you have any photos that we can share on the show?

Good question.

That's.

I might.

Anything on your social media we can look up later on and embarrass him?

I have photos.

I have photos.

So I've tried to get Weiss on the show.

Just one on one a couple times.

And he hasn't been on the show 101.

It was Cena.

It was with Cena.

Got on Fridays, and I've tried to get him on a couple times, but he has this thing with being in front of an open mic.

Totally.

And I'm gonna.

I'm break that habit.

Yeah, you should definitely get him on one on one.

That's gonna happen.

Whenever they had to film, like, the video content for Fridays, he always was, like, shy, and I'm like, dude, you're good.

You should keep doing it.

I think he's good too.

Yeah.

I think there's a lot of authenticity in him, like being kind of his personality just very in himself.

I think he's very good on camera.

I agree.

And I think he doesn't appreciate how much authenticity resonates y. Yeah, but that's okay.

We have nudes, so.

Exactly.

That's.

That's authentic, too.

All right, my friend.

Well, welcome.

Thank you.

Thank you.

I'm excited to be here.

Wow.

We're gonna change that.

Don't worry.

Yeah, yeah.

So by way of backstory, Weiss and Cena have been on the show before.

They are the co founders of Fridays, and you and our good friend Dr. Weiss have been good friends for a very long time.

Yes, sir.

Unfortunately, we're going to make him regret that later on, too.

So I thought it'd be good for the listeners to hear about your story, because, number one, you have a really interesting job now, but your path to getting here was really cool.

Yes, sir.

So walk us through how you became the man you are today.

All right, let's do it.

So I went to UCI for political science.

So I was on the path to being a lawyer my whole life.

Wow.

Really?

Which is funny because I hated it.

I hate every part of it.

You know I'm a lawyer, right?

I didn't know that.

It's the world's worst job.

It's.

I hate every minute of it.

I literally couldn't stand it, and I couldn't imagine doing that.

For the rest of my life.

So I didn't.

When I graduated, I literally said, I am never going to do this for a living.

It was the worst.

It really was.

By the way, Jason, I also graduated from UCI with a political science degree.

We're all collecting them, huh?

There's a lot to unpack here.

Yeah.

Does anybody actually.

What do you do with a political science degree?

Go into politics?

Is that.

No, I think it's.

I think it's viewed as a pre law, like, major.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Well, you guys all made better decisions than I did.

I mean, at the time, it was terrifying.

I.

My mom had a.

My mom's brother was one of the most famous music producers in Taiwan.

So she was like, hey, you want to go learn how to do music?

And at the time, I'm like, look, if I'm going to be a lawyer and just be in the library my whole life, let's just take like a year or two to see if I like this.

What kind of music?

Chinese pop music.

Okay.

Yeah.

Big market for that.

Exactly.

Yeah.

And the interesting thing is I. I went over there just on a whim.

I was just like, I need to leave.

So I completely unpacked.

I just uprooted my entire life here, Moved to Taiwan.

I have so many questions.

Hold on.

So you're in college, you graduate.

Yep.

And then just.

You're having a conversation with your mom one day and she was like, hey, you want to go do this?

And you're like, yeah, sure, why not?

Yeah.

Well, I was really close with my uncle.

I always loved music, so I've been producing music, like, as a hobby by myself, like, in my.

You know, just like in the.

In college and.

Okay.

I always wanted to know more about it.

That was where my, like, passion was.

And every time I'd go think about my future as a lawyer, it was just extremely depressing.

Were your parents, like, the prototypical?

Like my parents?

You have to be a doctor or a lawyer.

That's the path, you know?

Yes.

But also, like, they were really good about letting me do what I wanted, and they knew I wasn't happy doing the other thing.

So they're like, you know what?

Try it.

And also, I was really close to my uncle growing up, and he was always super good to me.

And just like.

Which is actually a super funny story.

But once I got there, I hadn't seen my uncle in maybe a decade, and he was really, really, like, growing up, he was always super, super good to me, took care of me.

But I show up there.

And he literally was the most like stern, strict person.

I, I like, it was a completely different person and I didn't really get it.

And from the moment I stepped foot off the plane, he treated.

Because obviously he knew I was gonna go work for him.

He completely turned my life upside down.

Like just I worked 12 hour days for the next like 6 years of my life, like in a studio.

You think it's because he was like, all right, he's a man now.

He's my nephew.

I think because of how Asian culture perceives nepotism, actually.

Oh, slightly different.

Yeah.

No, I can go.

Yeah, yeah.

So it's like, if you're gonna come here and like you're gonna be my nephew, you're gonna like do that.

Yeah.

So he paid me nothing for two years.

And it was, I'm kind of jumping around here.

But basically like the experience I learned working overseas in Taiwan for like no money made me when I came back here to the States.

And I'll get to like how I decided to.

But when I finally came back to the States, I realized like, I can work anywhere and get any job anywhere.

Like I will outwork anybody.

And it kind of instilled in me the confidence to do, to pursue like things that I had like after, you know.

And it's interesting because I really, truly hated him when I was there, like learning how to, how to do this.

But like resentment, hate or like real.

Like kind of maybe real.

Wow.

Yeah.

The guy like, you know, I couldn't date, I couldn't do anything.

My hours were 12pm to 1am for six years straight.

Monday through Saturday.

Wow.

Out with friends, like trying to get them dating.

I'd be called into the studio and you're just kind of like alone in a studio, working on production.

You were just production back in.

So you were like in the production booth.

Artists mastering, recording.

Yeah.

So I did.

Way more valuable to the show than cycles right out the gate.

Just, just so you know.

No, I definitely know so.

Wow.

Yeah.

And it was, it was kind of culture shock.

And I, I say all that to say like growing up in the States, I grew up where side grew up ny.

And it was a very, I almost, I don't want to say spoiled because like the unhappiness that comes with the discipline of working in Asia is like also a whole other thing to talk about.

But it's almost expected.

Right?

Like you're supposed to grind it out like that.

It's not supposed to be enjoyment.

Right?

For sure.

It's literally Grind.

And it's all based on seniority, too, so it's kind of different.

I had a hard time adjusting coming back to the States when it's much more individualistic and much more like, I deserve this.

And everyone who succeeds for a long time seemed to be more that kind of personality.

Right.

And it took me a while to, like, adjust to that, but I feel like learning that and using the discipline and the work ethic from.

From Taiwan was like, when I.

When I really started, I think, finding success in my career here.

Wow.

So I can't believe you, first of all, just gave everything up to go there.

Second of all, you get there and you're.

I mean, effectively working around the clock.

Yes.

And you stayed for two years.

Six years.

Jason was.

Six years.

Was anything promised to you?

Like, was there a light?

That's interesting that you say that, because, you know, my uncle is really young and he's really talented.

He worked his whole life like crazy as well.

But he.

There was always this hint that he'd retire and that the studio would be left to me.

Ah, the bait.

Exactly.

Yeah.

And he never retired, did he?

No, he still worked to the stain.

That was, like, 15 years ago.

And that's the thing.

It's like you.

You know, and that's the best hook ever.

Hey, side, you can have the studio when we're done here.

Okay?

And, you know, I think genuinely, he truly felt like he would, but when you're making that kind.

I mean, okay, this guy.

You know what?

I'm just gonna say, I don't.

I don't even care.

So this guy was making.

This guy mixes 30 songs a day.

30 songs a day?

Sorry, a month.

I was like, damn.

Sometimes 35.

So he'd mix, like, two songs, and every single song he makes, you'd make.

He'd probably charge, like, 5,000 USD.

And, you know, I got used to thinking that that's how much you get paid as a mixing engineer.

And he wasn't paying you anything.

Not the.

Not the percentage of that.

Not at all.

Yeah.

So I thought, okay, I've now learned how to mix the top music in the world.

So my.

You know, my.

My resume is amazing.

Let's go back to the States.

Like, I can't do this as.

As disciplined and as strong of a employee as it made me.

It just was.

I was like, I can't envision my life here anymore.

Like, forever, Right?

So I'm like, all right, with my resume, my background, like, I'll easily be able to.

To go to l A.

And make it work.

Six years.

Yeah.

Oh, my God.

You literally chart toppers.

Like the best, like, the most impressive artists in all of Asia, you know?

All right.

I remember coming back home and just.

I'm all pumped.

And I.

What I didn't realize was everyone in L. A is mixing, like, on their.

On their fucking laptops, and it was just like, char.

They were charging, like, 30 bucks a song.

I quickly realized this was maybe 20, 2016.

Okay.

So, yeah, that was after the production boom, where people started to really kind of.

Because all the tools became much more economically viable, and then there's much more technology on mobile, like, you know, platforms like photographers.

Right.

And you come to LA too, where everyone's so talented.

Everyone is so talented.

And everyone's.

And everybody had a sure.

SM7B mic.

They had a laptop, and they had an audio interface, and they were literally.

They would go into bathrooms and record music.

Exactly, exactly.

You know, and it was a.

It was a rude awakening, I think.

And, you know, my friend was like, hey, why don't you come?

At the time, I was very depressed.

I will say this.

Like, I was working so much.

I had no, like, interaction with everybody.

And so I was kind of plotting my escape back to the States.

I just.

I don't think I could have, like, mentally lasted there.

So my.

My really close friend, she was like, hey, why don't you come work for my fashion company for a bit while you get on your feet?

I was making, like, 500 bucks a month.

Right.

But I. I was like, I didn't care.

I gave up everything to, like, move back again.

So I made.

And your parents are still there at this time?

Yeah.

So sorry.

Made.

Made way.

While I was there, my parents moved, like, sold the house in.

In this.

In Anaheim Hills where.

Where sides from as well, and moved back.

And they.

They thought I was going to be there for my entire life and, you know, marry some nice Taiwanese lady and settle down.

Which at the time, I think some.

I think a part of me was ready to do that.

Quitting that job was also one of the hardest things I've had to do.

Quitting a job where it's like, you and a boss and with that family connection, it was.

I literally, like, was shaking when I was.

When I was doing it.

But I think, like, the day I quit and left that studio, it was literally one of the happiest, like, days of my life.

I've never felt a release like that.

Wow.

Even though you had no idea what you can do for money.

No idea.

All you had was dreams.

Yep.

All I had was dreams and the money that I saved up, which wasn't.

Which I thought was a lot.

Yeah.

I came back to the marriage.

I was like, man, this is literally nothing.

And so, yeah, I then uprooted my entire life after six years and moved back here.

And coming back here, this time without a family here almost like, as an immigrant was kind of.

That's so weird, dude.

So crazy.

So you get this opportunity for a fashion job and you take it.

I'm like, sure, whatever.

Did you know anything about fashion at the time?

Nothing.

Nothing.

So I did that, and my friend was just nice.

Not just like, get me, like, a foot in the door here.

I was living in her.

In her living room.

And, you know, I started looking for audio jobs while I was doing this, and I was looking for months, and everything was just like, freelance contractor, mixing gigs.

People are.

People are going to mix your entire album for 300.

You know, back in Taiwan, it's.

It's like, what, like $30,000 for us that we would collect.

Yeah, yeah.

And I found a job that sold.

That was.

It said it was a music merchandise job.

I was like, all right, cool.

This is it.

I'm gonna apply for this one.

I go in there and I go to this tiny little warehouse in Alhambra.

There was like, five people there.

A tiny, little crowded warehouse.

And I was like, you know what?

I need a job.

It's more than 500 bucks a month.

So let's take it.

I think at the time, it was $30,000 a year.

Okay.

So.

Wow.

And it had nothing to do with music.

It was just.

It was just merchandise for musical artists.

Oh, my God.

So the funniest thing about this, though, is that during that time was when everyone in.

In this.

In the world stopped paying for music.

They would only buy merch.

So it was around the time when Bieber was putting out.

You know, Bieber and Yeezy were putting out all their merch and were selling so much more of that than the actual music.

The music became just a way to drive merch sales.

Exactly.

Way to drive concert ticket sales.

Yeah.

That's all it was.

The actual music itself was just a platform to sell your products.

Exactly.

To allow you a platform for people to come buy your stuff, which is.

How Yeezy got so big, which is, you know, part of the reason why Bieber originally started his own fashion line.

For sure.

Yeah.

And this.

So this company is called the Hive.

It's actually really interesting.

The.

The.

The owner of the Hive was actually a really, really good guy.

He took a chance on me and, you know, we started.

Like I said, it was 30, 30,000 a year.

The company was tiny.

They signed on an artist named Lil Peep.

The.

The.

My boss, who also owned the company was the manager of Lil Peep.

And the interesting thing about that was he just always made really cool stuff for Lil Peep.

And all of Peep's friends would be like, hey, that's really cool.

Where'd you get that?

And then they would link him up and he's like, you know what?

I'm gonna start a merch company.

But he was early in like that cultural like phase of like these younger demographic targeting audiences coming up.

Exactly.

So he had like a cult like following because he was appealing to like this up and coming age, like demographic.

Right?

Yes, yes.

And there's a bunch of artists that kind of spawned from.

From him at that time.

Right.

So many.

Yeah.

And the craziest thing is, you know, I. I often talk about.

This is like that company after signing Pete, we were making, I think we were selling like, I think it was like 600,000 on the year.

And it was like October, right.

So on in that year.

I can't remember exactly what year it was.

Sold about 600, 000 in profits.

It was like, whatever means nothing.

Crazy.

Pete passed away tragically.

Yeah.

Obviously, Everyone probably knows that.

I'll never forget the text.

It was like, I'm flying to Arizona.

Pete passed.

Never million years did I think.

I mean, this guy lived at our warehouse.

It was the craziest thing.

But that next month we made I think like 800,000 because the news of.

Him passing made him more culturally relevant.

Yeah.

Right.

And I always had this guilt in my career because it felt like blood money.

Huh.

Wow.

You know, like he passed and the company blew up.

We were making, I think we.

The next year, I think we hit 7 million.

But it's not more of a legacy though.

I mean, first of all, 7 million.

Wow.

That's.

That's more than 10x.

That's crazy.

It was like in.

Yeah, like was.

But you know, I worked pretty.

I didn't work closely with him, but literally the guy like lived in our back room at this big warehouse and see him all the time and just something didn't sit right about being in a position where someone passes and success comes for everyone involved.

Yeah.

But he was also living a pretty wild life.

He was, right.

He was.

He was.

You're.

You're talking about an argument.

An artist who And I always.

We've had these conversations on the show before, but, like, it's crazy to me to think, like, in order to be an artist, you also have to have, like, this internal turmoil on some level in order to be creative for.

It seems like at least for a lot of artists anyway.

For sure, there are some that walk a very different line, but I don't know, that makes you blood money.

If anything, it's.

It's.

It's a legacy.

I.

You know, I've.

I've grown to come to terms with it a lot more.

I think.

I felt.

I felt really just kind of like there was a lot of praise being heaped onto the company and.

And I think at the time I was director of operations, so I started as just like a operations production manager, and then I ended up being director of operations.

When we started, there's five people.

When I left that company, there was like.

I think we had, like, 25 employees.

Right.

So, yeah, I mean, you do that much volume, you gotta have more.

Totally.

Yeah.

So spiked.

It was five years of growth and the craziest things.

We signed a lot more artists who, like, I hate to say it, passed as well, and that ultimately led to higher sales.

And it wasn't like we were like.

It just.

There's just something about that that was very dark.

And I think when I look back on it, and I'm so grateful for that opportunity and so grateful for that.

The experience of, like, I used to feel like, man, anybody in this position could have done this right.

Was that all the artists that that particular guy managed, he was in that niche.

No, it was what it was.

SoundCloud rap.

Okay.

Yeah.

Well, there you go.

I know, but it's just like, yes.

Like, regardless, if you're a SoundCloud rapper.

And you're not troubled, you're on the wrong platform, bro.

You know what I mean?

Like, I don't want to be that guy.

I know, of course, of course.

But, Jason, So do you think now, with where this has gone to, does some of this maybe get abused where maybe there's some companies out there looking to sign people knowing that, hey, if this person passes, we could potentially blow up?

Well, if that was the case, I think that scene died with Peep and if now.

So, like, I think maybe around that time, there was definitely a lot of controversial people that they would necessarily sign.

I don't necessarily think it would, like, be like that, but that whole scene, like, ended after his passing.

Like, there's a lot of guys who also went mainstream after that, and it stopped being so, like, cool to that demographic, too.

For sure.

Like, Lil Pump and those guys got.

A little wild, but they also did his merch, too.

Yeah.

And then, like.

And then he went like.

And now he's somewhat kind of rehabilitated in some way.

But then you got guys like 6, 9, who were also kind of extreme.

Yep.

And those guys kept going more extreme, but they also just fell off.

For sure.

For sure.

I think right now, like, the music scene, if I were to.

If I were to peg it, it's more like trying to find hyper regional.

Like, a lot of the Texas rap guys are coming up, and they're not like those guys at all.

Not at all.

So it's very.

I think it's a very different vibe kind of going on too.

I think it was just like, man, what's the point of the success in this stuff if you're just gonna overdose and die?

Like, it was like, so.

It was so crazy how many people.

I think we were, like, five or six.

It was just.

It was just too much, you know?

And, like, having to work with some of them close.

Just, like, even meeting some of them and seeing that and then just hearing again, it was just.

It was crazy.

Like, who was the weirdest one you worked with, if you feel comfortable?

Oh, I mean, straight up, Lil Pump was really absolutely insane.

That guy was literally insane.

And him and his management and look, I mean, I don't want to generalize, but working with, like, rappers and their management was also hilarious.

It's like no one knew what they were doing.

Everyone was trying to, like, one up and trying to, like, swoop in on.

On the business.

It was a very.

It was a very, like, just shady, shady business.

Did you like the merch you were making for those guys?

Yeah, I.

Here.

Here's ultimately a merch ended up being very similar to music production because you work closely with the artists about what their vision was, and they had releases that coincided with the music.

It felt very much like, you know, obviously producing the music was so much harder, but it was like you're still working with their vision to complete, like, about, like, 10 SKUs that you'd put out with each collection.

Almost, like 10 songs that you put out with an album.

Collections can't match the albums.

Right.

And then you have the studio and the management all, like, with their own annoying, like, things jumping.

And it was very, like, similar in that way.

So I enjoyed it, and I think I excelled at it because of that.

I was always very good with talking to Talking to artists.

Okay.

Yeah.

And, you know, I think one thing that was very frustrating with that kind of work is you.

We would be kind of like, what are those tech companies that.

That raise companies up, called, like venture capitalists that.

But, like, we would always grow these merch brands or.

And then they would get to a level and then they would leave.

And so towards not startup, it's.

I can't remember the word I'm looking for.

There's.

Y combinator does that too.

Whatever that is.

Yeah, yeah.

Y combinator.

Yeah, that kind of stuff.

Right?

And incubators.

Incubators.

I got you, bro.

We all know that from Silicon Valley, the show.

Great show, by the way.

Super underrated.

So accurate.

These guys don't know.

They don't know.

Yeah, but that's ultimately like the model that we were.

And.

But you get to this, you get to a size and, you know, I'm going to take this time to talk shit on some of these big major record labels.

At the time, merch was not really a part of the contracts of a lot of these artists.

So they weren't 360 deals then?

No.

Okay.

And we had.

We were making so much noise with a lot of stuff that basically the downfall of merch was, well, every single fucking pizza shop wanting their own, like, merch, you know, thinking that and then being surprised that it doesn't sell.

Okay.

That was number one.

Like podcast.

Exactly, man.

We were there for like, holy shit.

Everyone wanted merch.

It was hilarious.

And regardless.

But then the record labels started getting really mad and basically telling the artist, if you don't sign your merch deal with us, then we're not gonna support you.

So.

So that pretty much was the beginning of the end.

This happened in sports too, where a lot of.

There was a lot of cottage industries that were coming off of, like, these pro athletes, like, they would go to clubs and they would get paid for club appearances.

And the agents and managers weren't taking any of that.

That was all outside of it.

Then around 2019, 2020, they started signing 360 deals with all the athletes.

That's included that.

Now it's included.

No way.

Now it's a 360 deal.

Anything they touch as athletes, you're going to pay that.

You're going to pay that commission to the guys.

That's insane.

Yeah.

So.

And now, like, Merchant, they used to be able to do their own merch in the side.

You get, like, big contracts like Nike and Reebok and, like, they would take their cut for that.

But if you did like a small, like, mer drop or something like that, or you want to do your own thing, like you're.

They were like, whatever.

Yeah.

And now they cut everybody out, and the managers and agents of these guys take a piece of everything.

Now it's just unilateral.

It's wild, right?

It is.

And you know, it's.

That's essentially what happened.

Artists that we worked with that were too big would also be advised to start your own clothing brand.

Like, they cut them out, of course.

Like, why, why.

Why not just start your own clothing brand?

I was going to just buy that instead.

Right.

Much more money to be had there.

Well, then you got guys like Travis Scott who kind of like led the way with some of these bigger brand deals and then started saying, okay, well, my celebrity means that I hack.

I can drive this revenue model.

And then you got guys like Kanye who tried to bring it all in house.

And.

Yeah, that's a whole different story.

No, for sure, for sure.

And I mean, I think that was when things started to get really, like.

I mean, we have us hive at the time and the competitors in the industry, like, even companies much bigger than us, we're all starting to go out of business.

And it was pretty crazy watching the.

It just didn't make any sense.

You know, I was able to, you.

Know, it was happening at the time or it was like one of those things.

Look back on it.

I definitely felt it and which is why I started exploring my next move.

But it was just like very, like, it was very bad because you could also feel the merch is getting too, like, in my opinion, like, too cutesy.

Like, meaning, like, people wanted to support the artists they liked.

Right.

But the artists were putting out so much merch that the stuff that they were putting out now was very, like, inside jokes.

And like, it's just like people on the whole are not going to buy that.

Right.

Unless, like, you're die hard fans.

And so it's not going to resonate with a mass audience.

They make like 200 shirts.

That was like some random phrase that, like, no one's going to know unless it's.

Yeah.

So, yeah, sorry we did that.

This is me just shitting on your guys merch.

I'm sorry makes you feel any better, you're looking at the merch designer.

So.

Yeah, why you laugh?

Saeed, bro, it's your merch too.

That's all you get a shirt after this.

Yeah, no, but it's cool again.

You know, it's like vinyl is cool again.

So this is your guys's merch is going to be.

It's going to.

Going to be great.

We have an anti guru I think we know who just got hired.

Yeah.

So you know, so you know I was, I was sick and tired of like building a company just having them leave and, and also having to do so much merch for like a hundred different brands at that time.

Yeah.

But you're also really well connected.

I mean it's got to be hard to leave like the relationships.

Right.

For sure.

So but until they're being forced to sign with the majors.

So I had a friend.

This is actually.

You're gonna love this.

The next job I had a friend reach out to to kind of I guess poach me was from a company called tsm.

They're an esports gaming company.

Oh okay.

And random.

Super random.

They're.

They were positioned as the Lakers of.

Of esports.

Also random.

And I think this entire industry was built on crypto on ftx.

This is a great conversation.

Please continue.

No, this is, this is actually.

If you actually Google like TSM they, they have 400.

$400 million over.

I believe it's $400 million over 10 years to name.

To change their name to TSM FTX.

Stop.

Yes.

And I signed on when I was a 60th employee.

They were working closely with.

What's his name, the guy who.

Sam Bankman.

There you go.

Yeah, I got you.

Yeah.

Literally saw him on zooms and stuff stuff with our.

With the owner of TSM and did.

He have baby oil in the background or anything we should know about.

There it is.

TSM suspends 200.

Sorry.

There you go.

$210 million naming rights deal after FTX was.

Let me tell you I thought FTX screwed everybody.

I didn't realize they really screwed everybody.

Let me tell you like when I joined their, their facility.

See.

See if you can Google how much their facility cost it Apply Vista.

That's when I, that's where I started working.

I was employee 60.

Within less than a year we employed 280300 massive facility that they were.

It was insane and it didn't make any sense.

Like we weren't making.

It was just an esports facility.

It was.

You'll be able to find some pictures of it.

It is like the most gorgeous the touring the most expensive gaming facility ever.

It was like literally on Flyvis this massive two story thing.

You had like you had rooms with all these athletes.

You know my first day at work I see this like fucking like 19 year old kid driving with like a Ferrari.

I'm like, jesus, what is this?

Like, it doesn't make any sense because no one there's like, obviously they make money, but like, not that much money.

You're not.

Why?

What?

Yeah, it's driving a Ferrari.

Literally, he's like.

19 year old kid was like their star player, you know their star player.

Oh my God.

Please tell me he's playing Roblox.

He's like League of Legends and shit.

Yeah, it looked like that.

Wow, that's nice.

Yeah.

Team Solo Mid to build a 13 million LA.

Wow.

Okay.

It was insane.

And now.

Yeah.

It was literally the craziest thing.

Team Solo Mid.

That's what TSM stood for.

Stupid name.

But yes.

So I was signed on to work on their merch program, their merchandise, like operation, Operation.

So I was.

I went from.

I wish I went from 100 clients to just one.

And my.

Instead of doing a hundred different things all throughout the year, it was just one program.

And it was one of.

I hate to say this, it's one of the easiest years of my life.

I Literally everyone's just playing video games all day and I'm like, what is happening?

This makes.

No.

Do you play video games at all?

I did, then I literally.

Okay.

It was one day a week.

In office or in office.

Yeah.

And the rest is at home.

And everyone's literally one day a week you would go to the office and the rest of the time you were just at home.

Yeah.

And everyone's just like on Discord playing games.

Okay, I gotta ask a question.

It's crazy.

Why the.

Do you need to work from home?

You're playing video games at work.

What the hell?

That's a really good question, dude.

It was the most like.

I've never been.

I've never felt anything.

It was so crazy.

And I didn't understand.

We picked the wrong career path.

No, seriously, it was the easiest job ever.

My wife was like, what are you doing?

She's like.

She walks around just like.

And you know, I'm doing the work, I'm getting it done, but it was just like a lot less work than I think.

Yeah, I'm sure I was.

You were probably meeting their expectations, right?

I mean, were you actually designing the merch yourself?

No, my.

The head of the department who was also the greatest dude ever, he was doing all the designing and I was doing all the operations, the website, the Shopify and getting all that stuff in order.

But, you know, it was just.

I just didn't understand where all the money came from.

Everything's going well.

We're still looking into that Ponzi scheme.

Don't worry about it.

Smooth sailing.

All of a sudden our, our free lunches but with free catered meals.

Every day comes to an end.

You got free catered what?

Every hell.

Every single day.

Just like it was literally insane.

And, and I'll never forget start people start texting in the slack Sam Bankman fried investigation.

I would have loved to been an employee.

Then oh my gosh, they called in all hands meeting which hilariously, like they had no communicate.

They were the worst management I've ever seen in my entire life.

Hilariously, I'm one of the few people who quit on my own accord and didn't and didn't get fired.

So I didn't sign an NDA like they are.

This is actually funny.

I've had some.

They are the worst managed company.

It was run by some fucking like 19, 20 year old kid who thought he was super cool.

Uh, well yeah, you got a gaming company.

I mean obviously if you're spending that kind of capital improvements on a building.

I mean they literally when FTX announced that they were whatever was going on, they called in all hands meeting and said don't worry, this, none of this will affect your jobs.

We're super good.

We have a, we have a 10.

Year Runway, we got plenty of cash.

And the next week it was like, oh, I heard like 10 people got let go.

Okay, cool.

No communication.

10.

Another week, 10 people.

Like it was seriously hilarious.

Every single week they were firing people.

And next thing you know, he moved in with Diddy.

Yeah, I mean did nobody get the lube reference I made earlier?

Y' all just got that.

Which by the way I heard FTX is paying everyone back.

No, the trustee is trying to liquidate assets and pay it back but it remains to be seen whether he's gonna have enough money at the end of the day to do that.

Okay, okay.

Not that I've been following it or anything.

I mean I was really curious because a lot of that money, I mean it's, they got, they got.

Anyway, they got stuck with this insane lease now with the news company.

They moved into the company, last I heard, down to 16 employees.

And that was like last I heard.

I'm sure it's probably less than that.

It's completely dissolved.

How do they make money?

Well, they, I mean esports doesn't have like a huge like marketing following.

They made money on Twitch so like streamers would.

But they, we made like a tiny Percentage of the streamers, like, how so.

Wild touch I am.

It's.

It's between SoundCloud rappers and this.

I clearly chose a wrong path.

Well, the funniest thing is the deck that they.

And this is actually interesting because I think a lot of people, at least I was really curious what the.

What the pitch is for something like this, right?

And 100, they would say, okay, the super bowl had this many people watching it.

Okay.

Our streams have this many people combined, all watching it.

So the pitch deck was like, okay, if you put.

We have this many eyeballs and super bowl.

We have.

We surpassed the Super Bowl.

We surpassed the NBA playoffs.

So, like, engage their niche targeted.

You can reach out to them.

Yeah, yeah.

And.

And what they didn't realize is that half of like, the Lakers is like the stadium and the parking and the food and the actual real estate of people attending.

And what they didn't realize is broke gamers don't buy anything.

So it's like they're just watching Twitch something.

This is actually something that Gilbert Arenas and his team over at his podcast have been trying to grow.

Is they.

They factored in how many people would come to the games.

Arenas would sell out for 20,000 people.

But each episode of their podcast gets around 200, 000 viewers.

Right.

So they say, well, we can charge the same amount that these NBA teams are charging for advertising on our podcast.

Oh, yeah, I don't know about that.

But that's what they were doing.

Because here's a problem.

Their shows.

And their shows are lasting three hours.

I mean, this is.

Here's the logical problem with that.

Okay.

I'm gonna be devil's advocate because I'm a cheap asshole.

All right?

There's how many NBA teams?

30.

I think there's.

There's about 5 million podcasts.

Okay.

That's all I'm saying.

Right.

No, but if you're getting that many eyeballs five times a week.

Yeah, I understand that, but that.

Well, yeah, the attent.

What we.

What TSM discovered was like, the.

The intensity of the attention on this specific thing was like, a lot of times people would watch these games and just.

It's just like streaming in the background.

Yeah, it's in the background.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And like, obviously that happens in sports bars and whatever, but for the most part, like, people these days, especially kids, they're like watching, like, five screens at the same time.

So there wasn't.

There's a lot.

Like, the attention economy is now split up between so many different things.

It's not the same.

And I think similar to like.

Yeah, what you said side about that, like, you're definitely right.

I mean it's.

There's only a different concentration to what you can focus on.

Right.

But I would also argue that most podcasts are free.

So if you're listening to a podcast for free, but you want to charge me to listen to it, like I'm going to pay a membership to listen to your show, you got to have a damn good show.

For sure.

For sure.

My favorite NBA podcast, they started charging and I never listened to it again.

And like, no, it's not, it's not.

That what they were charging the listeners.

It'S what they're charging the ad revenue for people.

Oh, right, right.

See then I look at that.

If I'm an advertiser, I say, well then, then why don't we just talk about conversion rates.

Yeah, I don't care what eyeballs you're getting.

I want to know how many of your people buy.

Exactly.

You know, that's why so many of them have these affiliate codes.

Right.

But if you give me an affiliate code and I don't convert, I don't get paid.

But if I do convert, I get paid.

That's.

Nobody likes to do like.

So we have friends in the industry and they're doing like these baseline minimum deals.

So you pay me ten grand and you give me a commission.

That only works if you're converting a lot.

Yes, yes.

And it's very difficult, especially like from a podcast perspective.

I think it's very hard to, to convert.

I can tell you firsthand that it is.

I'm just like thinking about, like, have I ever use one of those deals on a.

Nobody uses those.

Yeah, yeah, but nobody.

That's what they're paying for.

You think like.

Yeah.

The problem is, is that if you're advertising, if you're advertising on a, on a podcast, like you're getting brand recognition, you're getting intangible access.

Yeah, but you're.

That those affiliate codes work on like such a small percentage of conversion rate that it's not really viable.

Yeah.

Most of the larger podcasts are making money by selling some other product.

Right.

That's where the bulk of the money comes in.

Or they'll have like a brand deal where it's like a show, buy this.

But it's not really an affiliate code driven business.

Like those like Alex Jones selling frog dick pills or whatever the fuck.

Right?

Yeah, exactly.

We're trying to get C4 on board, but apparently we're not Athletes which say, get in shape.

Yeah.

So, you know, so you're here, they're letting people off.

You've now realized that you've got one degree of Kevin Bacon separation from F. Sam Bankman Freed.

Yes.

And I realized that I never want to be laid off.

I'm always going to try and make that move first.

So I, I, my friend said, hey, there's this streetwear brand and they're looking for someone to like you to do, like, operations for it.

And it was actually pretty, I was like, man, am I going to leave the easiest job of my life?

The job's going to leave you.

My wife was like, dude, you need to, you need it.

Like, I literally lost all drive.

And this is so important.

Like, the, I think as humans we need shit to do, you know, and like, yeah, you literally lost my drive.

And, but it was just like, it's like, all right, let's do it.

So, but, you know, I, I cherish those, it was, I think 2020 to 2022.

So I cherish those years because I just got married with my wife and we, like, I think very few people got the chance to really just like, chill with your wife for two years at home.

Like, by the way, I've been married for way longer than I care to remember.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Uh, that was so, that was like, incredible.

And I was like, you know what, it's time to go back to work.

And I got, I met the two co founders of Pleasures and look at.

Him, he had this teed up, ready to go on the screen.

There it is, there it is.

And they are, you know, I think having.

You don't got to be humble, man.

The hottest LA street wear.

Come on, you say it.

Yeah, he's being a little bit humble right now.

Pleasures is here's Pleasure is amazing because couple of things and this is my one little short pitch about this, but the two co founders are two of the most knowledgeable about streetwear and the industry that I've ever seen.

Like, they are walking encyclopedias about every brand.

I love talking to them about just like, hey, what brand?

What's their story?

They know every single brand and like the story in the background, they can see any design and know, like, where it's from.

It's actually amazing.

That's why it's cool when a brand hasn't been sold to, like an investor yet, because you have that knowledge that started it.

Well, you got the passion and the passion drives the interest.

And that's where corporate America, that all they're Seeing is the money in the return, they lose that granularity.

Exactly.

And that's happening across the board with companies across the board.

And it's, how do you prevent pressing.

I know at one hand, like a streetwear brand will grow to scale and then you go, okay, we're getting an exit opportunity or we're getting a brand partner opportunity.

And I mean, I've got a whole storied background with private equity myself, one would say.

And I will share.

Yeah, I can't stand it.

But it's also like, like you said.

Yeah.

Like, how can you, how can you prevent it?

I mean, there's, there's always a creative way.

I'm sure somebody will figure it out at some point in time.

But I look at streetwear brands, like, let's see, like the most obvious ones are like supreme.

Sure.

Right.

Like, look what happened to them in recent years.

Two sales already, right?

Yeah, yeah.

And they've, they've really faltered.

They still have a loyal like, following, of course, but they don't have the.

Cachet they once had, of course.

And that is, I think, like, that's why I love working here so much, is you just like directly with people who started it.

And I think that's like, very important for me.

Another thing is they, they're the streetwear brand, I would say on the planet that's most associated with music.

So music's such a big part.

It never dies, obviously.

It will never die.

And so I think that that is what has made this brand very important.

They started from, you know, their love of like Joy Division, Radiohead, like that kind of era of things.

And it just resonates throughout their entire brand.

One cool thing about it is, you know, when Alex and Vlad, when they started the brand, they, they realized that a lot of streetwear is very like exclusive and kind of like verse drops kind of thing.

Yeah, kind of like that.

And also just like a little bit more like violent, like kind of like a darker vibe on a lot of that, A lot of that stuff from some of those brands before.

And so they wanted to do one that was more inclusive.

So that carries on through the ethos of everything we do.

Meaning, like we don't have a lot of sold out things.

Like, unless something's like really, really insanely like we didn't estimate how well it do we want everyone to be able to buy it.

We're also like not trying to price, price gouge ever.

So we always sit like slightly below like what your typical brand is because we also think it's insane to just like screw people out of, you know, like their hard earned money, so.

Well, a lot of, a lot of brands in like the last like call it 10, 15 years, took the limited edition drop model.

You had to be online and buy it at a certain time.

Exactly.

And then there was this whole aspect of like, okay, let's make it hyper limited.

And then the quality kind of went down for sure.

I think Ruggie is a good example of this.

Or you know.

Yes, yes, yes.

And everybody was buying rude for a long time and they had this brand blow up and they had a lot of people follow it.

But he's also had his trouble in the higher fashion world.

That's kind of an interesting to follow for sure.

Not that I stock people on social media, but this is kind of a perfect background for you though.

I mean, as music, it has positivity.

It's got a lot of your background mixed into it.

I'm glad you picked it.

That's, that's, that's why for me, yeah, it's like perfect, you know.

Did you know that when you went there?

I'll be honest, like, no, I didn't really know.

And the funniest thing about this is it's across the street from the Hive.

That's awkward.

It's so weird.

Like I never, when I left the Hive, it was like, oh, I never thought.

And then now it's like right across the street.

I see it every day.

When you first went there, did you interview there across the street?

It was.

It's a new office now and we took over, we took over this amazing tech office in Arts District.

And it's, it's, you know, it's the energy for being a part of a company, a smaller company where you can like feel every, every decision you make, whether it's the right one or the wrong one.

You see the results instantly.

And I, I think for me, having done music production, having done like just production in general, that is very rewarding and important to me.

Like, I realized I couldn't be a part of like just a part of a cog.

Like a cog in a machine, I should say.

Yeah, it's.

It's weird how, how many people we talk to that come on the show.

We tend to talk to on the show.

A lot of entrepreneurs.

Right.

There are very few people in corporate America who feel the same type of passion that entrepreneurs feel about what they do for a living in their jobs.

It takes a very like, unique perspective to find a job that aligns with you.

Definitely.

So talk to me about what you do like.

So I, yes, I'm the gm.

I basically touch all aspects of the company.

We're a really small team.

We have design, we have, I mean, look, we have E Commerce, direct to, direct to consumer, and then we have wholesale.

We're in Nordstrom's, we're in places all.

We're in some of the best retailers around the world.

We, Alex and Vlad have been very strategic about where they sell.

So, you know, you'll go to a boutique in Italy and you'll see us next to some of the best brands in the world, like the Balenciagas and stuff.

Right.

And they purposely don't, don't sit in stores where we might be with like the lower tier of streetwear.

And I think that's been the way they've carved out that distribution has been incredible.

And I think it's, it's something that, like, I've never heard anyone else really discuss with how they carve out wholesale.

And I think it's like really smart because of obviously the economic global situation with like in the past few months, us being global has really positioned us to like, like, obviously there was an effect, but it wasn't as great, I think, as some domestic only brands.

So do you think so I, you know, when I grew up, I grew up, despite the way I dress right now, I grew up around streetwear a lot.

Yeah.

You know, I grew up in a pretty urban environment and then I met Saeed and got my act together.

But do you think being in Nordstrom impacts the cachet of the brand?

It's interesting question because.

Yeah, because that's what I wanted to say too.

To piggyback off that question.

You can't steal my question.

No, to piggyback.

Is there, is there a fear in the company of going too mainstream?

Like, how do you keep it popular.

Without going to mainstream?

So we're actually coming into our 10th, they're coming into the 10th year of the brand's existence.

And one thing you'll notice is like streetwear brands are, I don't want to say a dime a dozen, but they come and go.

You'll have a flash in the pants, some guy makes millions and then like the brand's kind of gone like a few years later.

I think longevity is something to be very proud of and it's something that that pleasures has.

The way that we put it is they spent 10 years being the cool kids and now like, I think the next step is allowing that to grow and access it and make it more accessible and available and more, you know, visible to everyone else.

There's also, like, the fear of God approach, too, right?

Where you can separate the lines.

Exactly, exactly.

And the thing with Nordstrom is that, like, they have a young male adult section that's, like, where the streetwear brands go.

And it's pretty hard to get in there.

The rail section or whatever it's called.

I'm not sure.

They just call it young, young, young men's.

Whatever.

Adult male.

Yeah.

It's.

When you walk in, it's all.

Yeah, okay.

Yeah.

But it's.

It's pretty rare to be in that collection.

And so I actually think in this case, it's been a source of great pride and that.

That we're in that.

No, I should be.

Yeah.

Long.

Long story short, my.

One of my first jobs, I worked in Nordstrom and customer service.

Oh, my gosh.

And there was a Korean dude who taught me everything I know to this day about fashion who, like, had a huge impact on, like, the way, like, I dress and think about life.

But he also taught me a lot about the business, the merch side of the business back then, stuff that, to this day, I still think about whenever I walk into those.

But he's telling me how.

How, like, brands used to really try to pitch and get in there.

Yeah.

And it took, like, a huge amount of effort to get brands in that store just to sell product.

If it's not somebody that's well known already.

I mean, let me tell you, just to even sell in there, the operation to get it, like, finished and bagged is just, like.

It's.

It's.

It's a tricky thing.

And I think some companies just don't even have the operational capacity to, like, get it in there, because, yeah, regional for you guys.

You guys got to sell, like, nationwide dollar stores and have a certain amount.

We choose the stores that, like, are probably the most strategic for.

For streetwear.

Yeah.

So you go.

That store is ghetto.

I'm kidding.

I'm kidding.

No comment.

But Jason, was there, like, a singular event that really came across during your time there that took Pleasures to the next level?

Because just doing a quick Google search, I'm seeing top celebrities that have been seen wearing pleasures as Rihanna, Kylie Jenner, the Weeknd, Kendall Jenner, Kim Kardashian, Zendaya, Beyonce.

I mean, the list goes on and on.

Well, look, I'll tell you that my most.

The proudest moment was last year's Coachella livestream.

Dom Doll and John Summit were wearing Pleasures on the Main stage.

And I was like, oh, Jesus, this is awesome.

Because your music background.

Exactly right.

Yeah.

And then we got NBA players wearing them all the time too.

And like, to be clear, like, we generally don't seed send to them for free.

So it's always very nice to see, to see you get love from a lot of these people.

Yeah.

And it's interesting.

So a lot of brands will literally sell or send free merch to a lot of people just to wear like, hey, Kylie Jenner, wear this.

Of course.

Of course.

Yeah.

Because if they wear it, then their brand get boost.

Yeah.

You guys, you guys really don't do that much.

No, I mean, if we have, it's like, it's much more targeted.

Like that world is not one that we've like reached out to until like recently we've started to develop.

But I will say that.

And we did a collaboration with On Running early in the year a couple months ago, that was the, that was the most amazing thing.

They hadn't worked with the streetwear brand ever, actually.

Yeah, I was gonna say that's an interesting pairing.

Yeah.

Like, how did On Running and, and you guys come together is like a backstory.

There, there was a, so we do a lot of footwear.

Yeah.

A lot of people say you can judge the success of a, or the health of a shoe or company based on their footwear collapse.

And we were connected with this, this running store called the Loop.

And they also had worked with On Running a lot.

And so there was, that was kind of the connection.

It was like a three way collaboration, I guess.

But, but the coolest thing was just that they hadn't again, on, hadn't really done streetwear.

So being able, it was like an honor being able to do this stuff.

And it's just a beautiful shoe.

It's super awesome.

Yeah.

When I went to, first of all, I love the color palette you guys picked for that.

That was a pretty cool shoe.

It was more kind of like a neutral earth tones, which I think is really popping right now.

But yeah, I, I, I was stunned to kind of see that brand and you guys work together, but it makes sense.

No, for sure.

I mean, we kind of, you know, we, we do a lot of like random things that just kind of come out of nowhere.

And I think like, you know, Alex, one of the founders always likes to say, like, collabs are so like, I mean, licensing has blown up in a way that's, yeah, it's like my C4's.

Got Hawaiian Punch license.

I mean, everybody's Licensing everything now.

I mean, there's like Selena Gomez, Oreos, and I'm like, is there.

No, it's not.

Yeah, stop it.

Is it really?

Yeah, I just.

I just spot it back.

It was actually.

It's got a picture of Benny Blanco on the front smiling.

It's actually super good.

It's like, I did dirty boy.

It was at a party.

I'm like, dude, I got to try this.

But the license.

I mean, that licensing industry has blown up in a way.

I don't.

I call bs.

There's no way in hell.

This.

You got to get a pack.

Stop.

Oh, my God.

It might be hard to get a fact.

Is it, like, flavored or something?

It's like horchata.

That's racist.

It's.

That's.

You know, I did not know that's a thing.

That's so cool.

Yeah, it's delicious.

Go get a pack.

Go get a pack.

Go get Selena.

Go get the Oreo.

Gomez getting a free plug on the.

Why is it.

Why is there no shout out to Benny Blanco here, bro?

That's what I want to know.

Seriously.

Someone called Benny.

It's a travesty.

But, yeah.

So, you know, I just.

I feel like with licensing being.

Licensing is having its merch moment of.

Of ten years ago, where it's just.

Everyone is doing it.

So if you do the expected thing, it's just too predictable.

It's not as cool.

You got to do something that's, like, kind of crazy and out there, right?

So that's kind of how.

Otherwise, like, the.

The attention economy, it's like instant.

It's like, you see one thing, it's gone, right?

It's so crazy keeping up with, like, the.

The attention spans of, like, this demographic now.

Especially, like, even the way that people wear clothes is different.

The way that people support brands is different than I think it was just even like, yeah, probably like five to 10 years ago.

You know, how is it different?

I feel like before, you'd have people who were very loyal, deathly loyal to certain streetwear brands, right?

And they would only wear that.

They'd only buy that.

That was like.

That kind of a customer was much more easy identifiable, like, even on the back end, for analytics sake.

Now I feel like streetwear people, you'll go to a club and you'll see someone wear Balenciaga jeans, Supreme T shirt.

And it's just like, all mixed things, right?

Especially, like, with fashion, it has evolved in a way that you can kind of wear anything anywhere, right?

You can go.

You go to Vegas, you can wear hoodies in the clubs now.

It's just like that's, that's my like example.

And because of that, I think people buy on category now.

It's like, okay, this is my streetwear stuff.

Anything that's like kind of cool, like I'll put in, I'll group into this.

But it's, it's like everyone has like the categories split up and it's not as much of a like deathly loyal thing to specific brands.

It's like, this is my streetwear stuff and this is my stuff.

You know, it's kind of like vintage T shirts.

Like, yeah, half the people don't even like AC dc, but they'll have like an AC dc.

Like it's the vibe, right?

And we've kind of note identified that like a lot of people dress like that.

They kind of just put things in these categories and it's less specifically brand focused.

So then how do you market to an ever changing palette from the consumer?

Do you just make a lot of different product?

So we have a lot of.

We have a lot of product and we try to make, we try to make something for everyone.

We have, we try and be a little bit more crazy with some of our designs and.

But yes, that, that is, that is one way.

And I think you just kind of have to be a little bit more flexible with, with your offering now and making like you said, making sure that there's enough variety for anyone to, to feel like it fits in their wardrobe.

Super hard to manage.

Like a lot of skews like that.

Right?

You're.

I mean every product you make has a manufacturing process behind it.

Packaging, branding, product.

I mean it's, it's a lot of work.

It is, it's.

We have about 80 SKUs a season.

It's.

Yeah, it's, it's a lot.

But it's also because of our different retailers on different vibes like all around the world.

And then also our direct to consumer customer, we have to make sure that everyone can, can find something to like, right?

What's the weirdest thing you ever made?

And you're like, God damn, people buy that.

There's got to be something weird where you didn't think, okay, this, this, this.

Is not with my current company.

But the, at the high we made, we made a ball gag.

But the problem is we, we try to laser on the logo on the.

But they.

We weren't allowed to sell it because like, I guess once you laser it and it goes in the mouth, I don't know.

So that was the whole thing.

It's a choking hazard at that point.

I think so.

Yeah.

You can't buy another.

We made a.

Wait, hold on.

We got.

No, you can't just walk away from that.

It was a SoundCloud rapper.

Oh.

Which I'm not entirely sure if he's around still, but he's probably de.

Made reoccurring theme in your life.

Yeah.

Oh, God.

Yeah.

No, it was the curse.

It was the curse.

No, it's crazy.

If you're making ball gags, I mean, you're kind of telling people there's red flags.

Well, he used it and he passed away, unfortunately.

Ah, Saeed.

That's why you can't use yours anymore.

It's decorative only.

Higher standard ball gags sponsored by Pleasures.

Yes.

Yeah.

So, you know, that kind of brings me to where I'm at now.

And you know, I.

Do you like what you're doing now?

I love it.

It's very rewarding.

Again, I think for a lot of people too.

So as.

As gm, I also have to manage a lot of.

I manage a staff as well.

And I think that alone is far more important to a lot of people than I think.

Sometimes employers even like realize is like feeling like you've made a difference.

Right.

Like in every culture.

That's like.

So I find like so many.

I talk to different positions.

Like of all things.

It's just.

I think it's like a. Yeah.

A feeling of knowing that you made a difference.

Which strangely, like, like it's.

A lot of times employers might think it's fully just like vacation days or like pay or something.

And I think ultimately like everyone just wants to know they made a difference.

You know, at least that's my driving thing.

Like I would say that would be that in like working in the creative space.

I think that that's like ultimately my utmost importance.

So you're not an attorney.

That poli sci major is questionably valuable at this point in time.

Don't worry.

I was a biological sciences major.

That didn't do anything for me.

You have this music background.

You worked in Taiwan.

You're now here doing this.

Where does this go for you?

Like, what's, what's.

Obviously, let's say, you know, the brand's around forever and you love the gig.

But of course, is there like a next creative step?

You know, I. I think I.

So I've been at Pleasures for almost for about two years now and I want to say, like, I think my personal goals were always to every job I Get to.

I want to make sure, like, I learn how to do it best, my ability before I start thinking about that.

So I think, like, coming across, coming into the second year or the third year now, I finally have gotten to a place where I feel really ingrained in it.

I think the challenges of the ever changing, ever changing streetwear industry, like, has allowed me to keep trying to tackle these challenges.

Right.

So I haven't thought a scaling company.

Yeah, yeah, it's.

I get it.

It's changing so rapidly that, like, oh, man.

Especially with, like, global socioeconomic factors that constantly change.

Like, especially this year, every single time something happens, we're like, okay, we're going to like, after that.

And I've realized in my life that there's no after that.

There's always something, there's always a response.

You always think like, okay, cool.

After.

After Covid.

Okay, cool.

After terrorists.

After terrorists.

Yeah.

And it just never ends there.

So you just have to always be able to adapt, I think.

And that's something that, like, honestly, I just realized this recently.

So many people just like, oh, after this will be.

We'll go back to normal.

There's never going back to normal.

Yeah.

Tomorrow is the new normal.

Exactly.

It's never.

It's never yesterday.

And I think that's so I've.

I've helped scale a company and I routinely tell people that my favorite part was the building.

When you get to this point where you plateau and you're not building anymore and you're managing.

Yeah.

It's just not as fun.

For sure.

And I. I think, like, I hate to say this because I'm.

I'm basically breaking everybody in society up into two groups.

But it makes it easier for the example, I think There are the W2 people who go to work and they want the stability of the plateau.

For sure.

There's nothing wrong with that.

Nothing wrong with that.

No.

Totally respected.

And then there are the more entrepreneurial types, which you strike me as, who want, like, the stress of growth and change because otherwise you're at this gaming company and you're bored.

Exactly.

Right.

And then you look in the mirror one day and you're like, what?

Yeah, dude, you know?

And obviously Sam Bankman free walking around naked is probably awkward for everybody, but, you know, hey, whatever you do, you do you brother.

You know what I mean?

Yeah.

Yeah.

Do you see yourself maybe opening your own brand one day?

You know, I've thought about that and it's interesting.

Like, I had always actually done my own side production stuff.

Yeah.

I would imagine, you know, obviously.

Yeah, yeah.

And, you know, I, I think I actually find a lot of, if I started something, it wouldn't be my own brand.

I'll put it that way.

It would be something else, like maybe within industry, like a need of the industry, but I don't know if it would be a brand.

I myself have found that I'm not as working with so many talented people.

Like, I, not at that, at that level of creativity, in my opinion, really.

I've always been all the stuff you've done.

Like, I'm very good at executing a vision that might seem hard to make a reality.

I feel like I've been really good at that in my life and, but.

It'S not like you just play to your strength though, right?

Yeah, yeah.

You can bring on designers to build.

That's true.

I don't want to downplay the value of creativity.

Of course.

Of course.

No, like, I mean, yeah, now with Chat, tv, everything.

But no, like, I have found that I excel at that as, like my, as a skill.

So I haven't, I've wanted to, but I think I, I don't think I like this.

The, the challenges I've seen that come with being a purely creative thing like that.

I like the challenges in making something work.

So like I said, if I was to ever do my own thing, it would be probably not like a brand.

It would be solving a need or making something more efficient for things that I've seen throughout.

I mean, I've seen the industries grow, rise and fall.

All the, you know, the companies I've been at, and I've seen so many iterations of working with artists and making their visions reality.

I think that that's kind of like where I would put my head.

So let me ask you this.

I, I, I routinely am on social media, probably more than I should at my age.

Everyone is, yeah, it's, it's a problem.

Society is not.

He's a weirdo.

But who do you look to for, like, I don't want to say inspiration, but who do you see in the fashion scene right now?

You put Pleasures aside for a second because obviously, you know, the people who wrote the brand.

But who do you see in the scene right now that you see as like an inspirational person from a streetwear perspective?

All right, I'm going to plug.

I really like Basket Case there.

This guy, he is actually really funny.

He, he started Basket Case apparently because he was inspired by brands like Pleasures.

I don't know if it's specifically Pleasures, but they Also, he knows our co founder and he's a young kid who he puts out.

The shop is only available like three or four days of the month and then it closes until the next month and everything.

The orders all come in.

He produces everything and then puts it out.

And look, I'm assuming a lot just because I'm familiar with the, like the preorder game, but his business model, again, I'm assuming a lot, but is.

I mean, taking pre orders and then you're funding it.

It's amazing.

Yeah.

Like it's.

Yeah.

Yourself on.

Okay.

There you go.

I love everything they do.

Yeah.

Big fan of their stuff.

Oh, they just have it now.

It's a collab.

Oh.

New balance.

Yeah.

And you know, all this, all this, the.

The big players, like they're big for a reason.

Like they put out.

There's consistently good with all their product, with all their marketing and everything.

So obviously the Stussies, Carhartt whips, like those are always just going to be, you know, I always just gonna be staples.

We're.

I think now that I'm in this, this industry, this scene, I think all I would like to do is continue to elevate it just to strive for our place amongst those guys.

You know what I mean?

And yeah, I can't really think.

I literally only kind of only wear pleasures and like a couple things.

Because that's what I was gonna ask because I'm sure from the time.

Since the time you got there, I'm sure.

What defines success?

Your first year looks completely different.

Right.

To what defines success for you guys now for sure.

Right.

And I'm sure you guys are top of the food chain, so just staying relevant and not going too mainstream.

Right?

Yeah.

And that's a very hard line to walk.

You know, it's a very, very tricky line, especially with.

Again, every generation like thinks the last one or the coming one is like crazier.

But man, this is.

We're dealing with a generation grown up on.

On Tick Tock and.

And in reels and every.

Everything is just like ever changing.

The fashion industry too, with a lot of.

So I, I use Jaden Smith as a great example of this.

I look at the way he dresses.

I know I can't wear that.

Right, Exactly.

But there's an entire cohort of people in his age demographic who aspire to dress like that.

Totally.

And it's just a very different.

Almost like TikTok driven.

I want to call it extremism, but certainly a virality to it for sure.

Where they're they're trying to grab attention in a different way, of course.

And I think, I think what tick tock and these things have done as a release of fashion is everyone needs to be flashy.

Everyone needs to be flasher.

Everyone wants followers.

Like, obviously, I'm sure you've read like the most desired job these days for kids is like an influencer.

Right.

And so still, still for the adults too, you know.

That'S true too.

Podcaster, influencer.

There you go.

And I think that that's, I mean, I have my thoughts on it as, on, as like a socio economic thing, but as a social thing.

But like that's why you have all this super flashy.

Like everyone's like a celeb, you know, And I think, yeah, that's everyone that's trying to be slop.

Wearing a castle as a hat makes sense.

I mean, yeah, it's not even functional.

So if I, if I got you that, would you wear it in the show?

It's not even functional.

It's a great tag.

Yeah, that'd be the best comment under that post.

Social media is not even functional.

Does it have a moat?

And so I guess I get it.

But you know, at the same time, you guys aren't making clothes for that.

Right.

So how do you appeal to the, to the demographic that's going to.

Because the social media demographics are the ones that are going to put it out there the most for sure.

And like I, we do make, I would say flashier clothing than a lot of, than, you know, then like a Carhartt whip.

Of course.

Like, of course we do, you know, and.

Yeah, but those are more staples where people buy that.

And it's like that piece they keep going back to and put in the rotation.

Yeah, it's like an anchor piece.

People love our stuff for like festivals, for instance.

Yeah, I was gonna go there.

Yeah, you'll see that.

Like, you'll see stuff all the time because it's just like.

And even me, like, there's stuff that I wouldn't normally ever wear, like in my wardrobe that I will just.

It's like my festival, my festival stash.

Me and Weiss, basically.

Oh, there's so many questions now that you've unopened, you know, Pandora's box here.

I'm so excited.

I'm fumbling words.

So what exactly is festival attire for you?

Because I look, I follow you guys on social media, you know, I know that you're a girl, wise girl, that you got all.

It's close and I've seen You guys at some festivals and photos, bro.

I mean, look, anything I wouldn't normally like.

I think it's cool to just wear a shirt that you would never normally wear.

And like, I don't.

I was never somebody like that.

That's a dope shirt.

It's amazing.

What is?

That is a unicorn.

Is just two horses.

Two horses and some roses.

Yeah, look.

I never used to be somebody who would.

And here's actually something that I think is very like, wholesome for pleasures.

Like, I never used to be somebody who would wear like, flasher stuff.

Oh, really?

And you know, Alex and Vlad, they talk about how, like, at the end of the day we make clothes.

But like, there's something really cool about making things that let people feel good about themselves, right?

And feel confident.

Like that's important.

Like at the end of the day and for someone like, it's really relevant for someone like me.

When I worked at tsm, all I wore was black jeans and black shirts with like a stupid little look.

That's all I wore.

And like, huh, it it.

For a lot of my life, I didn't.

I was never really like that flashy.

And, and honestly, like a lot of this stuff, this scene, just letting yourself discover the kind of style that you have.

Everyone's different.

Their own personal style is different.

But I think it's.

It's really rewarding for yourself.

And also just to like, let people feel comfortable about wearing cooler stuff and like flashier stuff, you know?

No, I totally.

First of all, I totally get it.

I. I'll send you something.

Something.

I'll send you something I want.

Something wildly expressive.

Yeah.

If anything that you could do, I could wear with say you'd embarrass him.

Yeah.

But no, it might make the next.

Cover of the Higher Standard podcast.

Yeah, dude, I wore our first cover and side and I.

We get into the change.

We're doing like a photo shoot, right?

And I go in and I change and I'm wearing this shirt that's like black with like neon colored, like leopard print on it.

It's ridiculous.

I mean, it sounds awesome inside.

Got a matching shirt, but he's colorblind, so he didn't realize how ridiculous it was.

Are you actually colorblind?

I am, yeah.

Oh, shit.

Okay.

Okay.

Yeah, I am.

I have purple and blue.

It's hilarious.

We should bring up colors later on.

It's the funnest thing I ever do here when no one's around.

Like, we bring up colors.

What color do you see?

And he's like I don't know.

Here's the scary part.

He can't see the stop sign colors.

He has to know if it's top.

Or bottom and orange kind of blend together.

No way.

I just know it as I know it was top, middle, bottom.

So let that dude leave the parking lot before you leave.

That's crazy.

Yeah.

Wow.

Think that through.

Yeah.

That's insane.

I'm like, wait, what?

Top, middle, bottom.

All right.

I didn't know for, like, years after knowing him.

I'm like, I could have been making fun of you for 10 years.

I didn't know.

Wow.

Wow.

Yeah.

That's crazy, man.

Just make an entire pleasure line for colorblind.

It's just like, the ugly shit.

There you go.

Say the question.

This dope ass shirt, man.

There you go.

That's the original cover.

He thought his shirt was the same color as mine.

Oh, my God.

He didn't realize it was a different color until we got there.

I'm having a hard time believing that's you.

Because I'm fat.

No, you're not.

You're not fat.

You just.

It's so crazy.

You look completely different.

Yeah, I had a hair transplant.

I've got a lot of facial hair, and I'm not dressed in a really obnoxious shirt.

And also lost, like, 60 pounds since then.

Sight.

No way.

Yeah.

Damn.

GLP1s Fridays.com shout out.

Oh, is that Join Friday.

That's amazing.

Yeah, you look great.

You look great.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I'm also on testosterone and a bunch of other chemicals.

I'm pretty much.

You're a cyborg, I guess.

I am very chemically enhanced at this point in time.

It's gotten to a point, my wife's like, you know, you don't look the same anymore.

I'm like.

Because I'm biologically not the same person anymore.

Yeah.

Yeah.

That's hilarious.

I like that.

Yeah.

If you want something, I can hook you up afterwards.

Yeah, I'll talk to Weiss.

Yeah, Weiss.

You want to hook him up?

And for those of you who don't know, Weiss did creep into the studio in the background, and he's been kind of eyeing me for a while.

You want to get the mic tonight?

You want to do it, don't you?

Yeah, he wants to do it.

He should.

Well, brother, I appreciate having you on.

I want to be mindful of the time.

Plus, I promise to feed everybody, of course, you included.

Amazing.

Thank you for having me.

Thank you for being out here.

And we will put all the links to all the products that we talked about in the show notes and hopefully you guys will sell some more pleasures.

No.

And we're gonna deck you out.

You gotta.

You gotta keep your word and wear something 100 words.

There's something I think will fit you just well so.

Wow.

What does that mean?

No, no.

Based on what?

You're a freak.

That's.

That's the one thing.

Crop top.

Wow.

Crop top.

Everyone I meet now I kind of like think like okay, what would look good on them?

It's kind of.

It's like I can't.

Let's bring my brain to not sexy.

Yeah yeah, yeah.

Thank you for doing this, Jason.

We appreciate you.

Of course, of course.

Thank you.

Let you go.

You got to give a good high pitched by said take us out.

Go on, do it.

Come on.

You gotta do it, brother.

Bye.

Bye.

I'm not falling for your trap.

I'm not falling for that.