You got questions going out of your mind. Someone with answers. Now that's hard to find, like the what and the why and the how stuff works or just where to go to avoid all the jerks. She's Gear Abby. Gear Abby. Gear Abby. Advice that doesn't suck. Gear Abby.

Hello there, my outdoorsy friends, and welcome to Gear Abbey, where we tackle the controversial, weird, obscure, and taboo topics that other outdoor podcasts refuse to touch. I'm Shantae Salibare, an outdoor educator, writer, and former school social worker who's hiked, run, climbed, paddled, and adventured across the United States and beyond. And here on Gear Abbey, I channel all that experience and more into answering your burning questions about our relationships with outdoor people, products, places, and pastimes. Because remember, my outdoor loving pals, there are no dumb questions, just smart advice. So you know how this works. You're going to send questions to myrockfightmail.com and I'll pick my favorites to answer here on the show. And joining me today, as always, my favorite number one partner in Gear, the producer of Gear, Abby, the creator of the Rock Fight podcast network, and our official question slinger, Colin True.

Oh, man. Now I feel like I need, like, a WWE style. Like some, like, you know, like, fireworks going off, you know, need my own theme song.

You need to start coming in with, like, a luchador mask.

Oh.

And like a whole. I want a whole personality. Actually, since this is my show, I can tell you what to do.

Now, next time you, like, log onto the Zoom, I'm going to have that, like, shirtless with the mask on. Let's go.

Yes, yes. So this is great. This is your assignment for next week, listeners. Your assignment is to come up with a great name for Colin.

Just got to pop down to Tijuana and, like, pick up. Pick up one at a market or something.

Oh, hell yeah. Yeah. You're in San Diego. That's not.

Yeah, I don't have to go that far. I probably could just go, like, down to Old Town in San Diego. Yeah, exactly.

You can go get some enchiladas and then get a mess. I actually found the best pinata I've ever found down there. It wasn't anything. It wasn't because of what the pinata was, but it just had a vibe. And I gave it to a friend and she. She still talks about the pinata to this day.

That's amazing. Old Town does the perfect blend of. There's actually some really authentic cool stuff there with the most amazing touristy CR you will ever find. Anywhere else. So it's like if you know where to go, there's some interesting things there.

Oh absolutely. And then you got those weird Victorian houses right next door up on that hill.

Right?

I love it. I'm a sucker for weird stuff like that.

Me too.

Give me an Atlas obscura, like any day.

That's why you're Gear Abbey.

That's why. It's because I love the obs, the obscura. But I also love the mundane or the weird or the silly or the straightforward. Anything. So long, Lob. Any question my way. And Colin, speaking of questions, you ready to kick this off today?

Oh, I'm ready. This is a good one. First one's good.

Born ready.

Okay, first question today. Dear Gear Abby, I'm kind of obsessed with the idea of thru hiking, but right now I'm just in the dreaming phase. If you were going to start backpacking by thru hiking, one of the big triple crown hikes, the Appalachian Trail, you taught me how to say that.

I see you looking at me with a side eye when you say that. I also like that you almost called them the triple Cow hikes, which would be exciting for me as a Wisconsinite.

I'm going to edit that out. But the Triple Cow, the Continental Divide Trail or the Pacific Crest Trail, which one would you choose? And why not? Signed Not Cheryl Strayed.

Why do people always have to invoke Cheryl Strayed when Bill Bryson is right there?

Attention Gear Abbey listeners, this is your producer and partner in Gear, Colin True speaking. And I wanted to let you know that that sound you just heard, the one that sounded like this, that's your indication that there is a footnote available for you on the Gear Abby episode companion article over on Rockflight Co. Go check it out. To get even more from every episode of Gear Abbey. Neither one of them finished their hikes. So it's kind of like an. You can pick one or the other, right?

I know. Cheryl just gets it all. She just, she just gets dumped on. Like Bill is right there. Guys, feel free. Even if, you know, pick Nick Nolte, if you don't want to pick Bill himself, just dump on Nick Nolte who played Bill in the awful, awful movie that.

No, it was Bob Redford.

Oh, Robert Redford, whatever. Same person at this point anyways. All right, so not Cheryl. Let me first start by saying that I would have never started backpacking with a 2000 plus mile through hike. Uh, that's not to say that people don't do it because they absolutely do. And some of them even finish their hike, which is a small miracle, but a lot of them don't. And I'm saying this as somebody who's met a lot of them, people who didn't carry gear that worked for them, people who didn't prepare their bodies, people who didn't prepare their brains, people who ran out of money, and people who learned pretty quickly that they didn't even really like backpacking. Whoopsie. So, yeah, maybe start a little smaller. I'd recommend maybe take a shorter trip close to home. Maybe starting with a one or two night shakeout is what I like to call it. You know, as somebody who's maybe backpacked before, covering a short enough distance in an area that you or maybe them know, just, just go with something vaguely familiar and start small, like bite off little pieces and you get to see how your gear works. You get to get a feel for what it's like to haul around a pack and see if you even enjoy this whole business of backpacking. Because you know what, A lot of people really don't. And you don't want to find that out when you're deep in it and you've like quit your job and everything and given up your apartment. Soldier dog. I mean, hopefully nobody's actually selling their dog, but you don't know. Some people are doing it.

I'm sure it's happening too big.

Goodbye, bowser. I've got a hike, but so I'd say if you are committed to just raw dogging it, trial by fire style, you know, out there, you could ease in with the Appalachian Trail. Thank you for attempting to say it correctly, Colin. Appreciate it.

I'm working on it. I'm working on it.

I know. Keep working.

Considering their mountain, that mountain range went through the state of my birth, you'd think I'd be better at it at this point, but.

Right. To be fair, I think I only learned the real pronunciation, pronunciation like 10 years ago. So I don't want to be on my soapbox. But it's a higher soapbox than yours.

I do feel like that is a pretty recent thing where we're like, no, no, no, it is Appalachian.

Yeah, yeah, that's true. Appalachian Trail. So now, before I get hate mail for suggesting this as the, as the one to pick out of these three, whether or not, let's just say, like whether or not a hike is, quote, easy, rest in the eye and various muscle groups of the beholder. And I am certainly not calling the atmosphere easy, because it's not, but it does three Things really, really well for beginners. Okay, so don't come for me. I mean, come if you want to. Myrockfight, gmail.com, you know where to find me. But here, here's why I'd say this is the one I'd go for. So, first of all, you cross a butt ton of roads and pass through a butt ton of towns. And yes, those are official measurements. And that gives you pretty much constant opportunity to bail, throw away your boots, pick up a much more reasonable hobby. Uh, second, you are generally surrounded by a butt ton of people. And personally, that's my idea of living hell on a through hike. But it does mean that you have a lot of folks to possibly hike with, talk with, bounce ideas off of and learn from. Um, and they can maybe comfort you in those nights where you're questioning your sanity. Um, and finally, while the entrail, you know, the entire trail is basically a walking roller coaster of just up and down, up and down, up and down. The AT does not have those 5ft figure elevations of the PCT and the CDT that create altitude issues for hikers. So, I mean, its highest point is Clingman's Dome and the Smokies, and that's about 6,600ft. By contrast, the PCT high point is Forester Pass, which is over 13,000ft. So that's more than double. And the CDT's high point is a 14 or 14,000 foot peak, Gray's Peak. So as for me, though, if you're just asking me, like, if you were reborn tomorrow, I want to start backpacking. Which triple crown would you head for first? It's gotta be the pct. I mean, it's not just because I wrote a guidebook that I am. It is. I mean, I. I am contractually contract. How do you even say contractually? Obligated to update it.

It's like Appalachian.

It is. That's my Appalachian. Contractually. When are you ever actually saying contractually?

Right now, apparently.

Right now. Only on this podcast.

Exactly.

Do you ever see words like that where you're like, this is the first time I ever said this word out loud. I don't actually know how it's sound.

Yeah, I've had to abandon words recording podcasts because I'm like, I just can't say this word today. And then the next day I could.

Say, just fine, you know, because you wrote it down. And then you're like, oh, no, I must not speak it into existence.

Yes.

Oh, man. Well, I mean, I. For me, though, I have to Say the pct. Yes. I have spent the most time on that trail of all the three. But I love that it's like this grab bag of desert and forest and alpine. It's relatively remote for most of it. And I love that feeling of kind of being along the spine of the west Coast. I mean, it was just, you know, Pacific Crest Trail does insinuate that you are on the crest, although you do spend a lot of time in lower lying areas. I love that it does not have the long road walks and grizzly bears that the CDT has. So sorry, cdt. I got to go full PCT on this. But I will say I've seen people start that trail having never backpacked before and give up within the first hundred miles. So choose your battles wisely. All right, Colin. So I like that we. I feel like we started off strong today. A topic close to my heart. What do you have next?

The next question is. Dear Gear Abby, I have a confession. I pay to subscribe to Strava. My friends are over it, and I feel like kind of a loser. Is nobody using Strava anymore? Signed Bike Loser.

Wow. Okay. Yeah. Please send your confessions to me. I would love to hear them, even if they're weird.

Gear Abbey is also a part time priest.

Yeah, I've got my confessional booth over here. It looks a lot like my living room.

What is the Gear Abbey equivalent of like 10 Hail Marys?

I shall not bury my TP. I shall not bury my cotton kills. I'll work on it.

It's probably you just recite the Leave no trace principles. There's 10 of them now, right? You said there was seven. There's 10 now.

I'm gonna make. There's. There's 18. It just depends on the day. 75.

Depends on your sin that you'll recommend the LNT principles you shall recite.

This is great. This is. Yeah, I'm really stepping into this new role. This new role is preacher slash teacher. I will be your preacher teacher. Please don't sue us. Whoever has the publishing on that. All right.

George Michael. Rip.

Well, yeah, I know. He was so great. I loved him as a kid. Big fan, man. All right, well, dear Bike Loser, I also have a confession. And that confession is that I paid for Strava for a year. And all I got from it was a feeling that, A, I was not doing as much as other people were, B, I was slower than other people were, and C, I was making it really easy for would be stalkers to find me.

Were those feelings or Were those accurate things that happened?

Those are all accurate things, Colin.

Including the stalkers.

No, thank. No, not in that way. I get them in other ways. Maybe from this podcast. Who knows?

I know.

Just kidding, Mom.

The Gear Abbey army is strong. They'll protect you.

Oh, that's right. Ga Army. All right.

Ga Army.

I don't like that because. No, we got to work on that. I don't like army connotation. We'll. We'll vibe with it. We'll figure it out. We've got time. So now I will say, I do not pay for it anymore. I'm a total Strava freeloader now, and I get these constant please on the app to like, you know, all caps, please come back and give us your money. We miss you. We love you. We will die without you. So often that I'm considering not using the damn thing at all anymore. But let me ask you this, Bike Loser Colin, just thumbs up me, by the way, you can't see that because this is not a visual podcast. Or at least it isn't yet. So, Colin, Colin, you're not a Strava user anymore, right?

I, I, I paid for it. And I don't. I deleted. It's gone. Like, I'm, like, I'm out.

So they're not going to be a sponsor of the podcast? It sounds like they are.

Welcome to sponsor the podcast.

Bring us back into the fold, guys.

Win us over. All of a sudden, Gear Abby changes her tune.

Strava, big fan. Yeah, don't be a bike loser. Sign up for Strava. No. All right, well, let me ask you this, Bike loser. I think you're being a little hard on yourself with that name, but why do you use Strava and what do you get out of it? Because that's all that matters when you're trying to quantify, paying for and or just using any particular app or a piece of gear. If you get giddy because you enjoy watching your annihilation of the leaderboards on your favorite local segment, get at it, bro. If you find it useful to have access to the full suite of data that's available to subscribers, keep forking over that cash. If you want to be able to create and follow your own routes in the app, give up that credit card info. But if you just want to use an app to track, you know, general stats about your rides, or connect with local riding groups, or give and receive a lightly Pavlovian thumbs up for a job well done, score some small discounts from brands you probably aren't going to buy from anyways or draw giant penises across your neighborhood. Thanks to the magic of gps, the free app is absolutely fine.

That's. The last one's the real reason.

The last one is the real reason I'm going to work on this. This is my goal is by the end of 2025, to be able to.

Cat holes and digital dicks. Listen to gear. Abby.

Wow. This is. My mom just turned it off right now.

Sorry, mom.

She's probably laughing. She's laughing. All right. Ultimately, I think there's no one size fits all, coolest app or piece of gear to rule them all scheme of life. It's all just window dressing. So Strava, like anything else, is a bit of an illusion that adds that tiny digital cherry on top of the giant bowl of ice cream that is actually running or cycling or lifting or doing whatever it is that you're actually using the app to measure. So at the end of the day, buddy, bike loser, bike winner. As with most things you do, you like. Trust me, nobody, except for the account executives at Strava gives a shit if you Strava or not.

Yeah, I think the. All joking aside, the thing I used on Strava that I liked that made a case for paying for it was the, you know, finding local rides. Especially when I was working a corporate job and I was traveling every single week and I'd end up in some hotel where I don't know where I am, and you find, like the local route, something nearby to go for a quick run or something like that. That was really helpful. Yeah, but the, you know, to your point, there's so many free options to track your mileage if you just want to know how far you went, that it's like, you know, I don't need to have the pressures of a social media platform in my fitness app, you know?

Yeah, that's how I felt, too. I mean, I. The year I used it, I think it was mostly useful for me when I was. I was sort of getting deeper into trail running at the time, and I was preparing for a half and thinking about moving toward ultras. And it was. I was like, all right, well, maybe this can help me learn a little bit more about myself. You know, I'd been using a watch. I think I talked about this before on the show, but, you know, I'd started using a watch. Now I have three. Like a weirdo. But, you know, getting that sort of biofeedback was helpful for me. But I just realized at the end of the day I. It just. It wasn't contributing enough to my life. And they had raised the price. I mean, this is the clincher. They had raised the price considerably this past year. So if they had not raised the price as much as they did, I probably would have subscribed another year. So something to think about. Strava. All right, Colin, so one more question. Let's see if you stay in my camp fully as you just said. Are you. Are we still camping together? Colin, tell me now, what. What do you have for me?

I am always in gear. Rabbi's corner.

Oh, thanks, buddy.

All right, the last question of the day is, Dear gear Abby. I love the idea of hiking in a skirt or even one of those hiking dresses, but I'm really worried about chafing since I know my thighs will rub. Is there anything I can do to prevent this or is it inevitable? Signed, thick thighs save lives.

Oh, I love it. That is an A plus sign off.

Excellent.

A plus. Please, people, when you send in your questions, sign off however you want. But if you could think of something like that, that's real fun. Colin loves it. I love it.

Definitely.

So. Yeah, well, you know what? I hike in running shorts these days, but I did actually. I've backpacked over a thousand miles, probably closer to 2,000 miles in a skirt, and I know all about friction on the thigh meat, so I'm here to help you, thick thighs, because it's me. Let's start with a little story time. You know me so early on in my long distance backpacking love affair, girl genius that I was, I decided to get a bikini wax two days before leaving for several months in the pct. Just think about that for a second. So I was also a pretty new skirt user back then. Add to the equation the fact that it was absolutely satanically hot when I started, and you will not be surprised to learn that within the first 48 hours, I had a whole bunch of red hot chafe on not just my inner thighs, but also inside my butt crack and along my bikini line.

Dear God.

Real good times, let me tell you. Wow.

Was that. Was the bikini wax tied to going on the PCT or just a coincidence?

Well, I. So my. My thought was o. Oh, I'm gonna get my bikini line waxed. So like, if I decide to go skinny dipping or something, it will be like clean. Like, I don't know what I was thinking. Like, no one's looking at my crotch out there. I didn't necessarily. I mean, I was.

You just said you don't Want anyone around you when you're going backpack.

I did, I did. But there is, there's always like now I'm not single anymore, but when I was single, I would always be like, maybe I'll be.

Maybe. Yeah. Who knows who I'm gonna come across at the swimming hole.

I gotta make sure all my Aaron pewter are shorn.

Even though that's the one community that would probably not care at all about Erin Pubes. Right?

My armpit hair was like down to my calves by the end of that hike.

But that is an interesting. What is happening there? Like why, why was one short okay and the other short not okay?

I have no idea that this is. This was. I was very new to all of this. This was. It was a weird time for me, Colin. I was doing a lot of learning.

Oh boy.

But yeah, I basically.

Well, let's get back to your red hot chafe and your butt crack.

Who wouldn't want.

This is an Alzheimer already.

Oh my God. Well, I, I basically had to spend a week hiking bow legged and totally commando.

Oh my God.

Which was great for airflow, let it be known, but very bad for, I don't know, sitting cross legged on the ground and eating lunch with other hikers. I was, I just spent a week like uncomfortably sideways on my knees.

Like, hey, you ever see Basic Instinct?

Do you want to be terrified on the trail? I got some, I got some nightmare fuel for you right here.

But the bikini line is so tight. Nice job.

Yeah, it looks angry around it, but great V you got going on there. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So what happened? I mean, basically I broke every cardinal rule of chafe avoidance. I ripped out a bunch of body hair in a sensitive area right before hiking in high temps when I knew I was gonna sweat like a banshee. Coupled with the fact that I decided to just raw dog it and not pre treat my skin in any areas that I knew would rub. I also think that's the second time I've said raw dog.

I was just about to comment that that's the second.

I'm not. Sorry. Yeah, I am.

I'm not trying to get the kids to listen here. You know, that's something. That's what the kids say these days.

Bring your children to the table. They must learn to. Maybe we'll have to do a family friendly episode once. Probably.

I don't think that's in our cable.

We absolutely get the. Whatever the bad words rating is on the podcast.

The E is emblazoned in hot pink on our, on this podcast.

Ah, yes. Well, anyway, truly a perfect recipe for chafing. That was what I served up on the trail. So chafing, of course, is essentially the repeated friction of an area on, on any area of skin. You know, it could be thigh on thigh, boot on heel, waistband on waist, nipple on loose T shirt, looking at you runners, or even, you know, butt cheek on butt cheek. Violence. It does not discriminate. It's whatever is rubbing. It usually starts as a hot spot. The skin starts to get kind of pinkish, then reddish, kind of angry. But it can absolutely blossom into an and wound that won't just be painful, but you also run the risk of infection if your chafe turns into something more. So you know, you want to, you want to be on top of this, especially if you're going to start skirt hiking. So to, you know, to. Basically the best way to prevent this stuff is to create a barrier against your skin and the offending other. So if it's skin, if it's fabric, whatever. So under a skirt you could try a fabric barrier. So bike shorts or I've seen people do cut off nylons, although let it be known, those do tend to creep up as long as it's form fitting, since baggy fabric can basically just create more friction on your tender bits. My weapon of choice, however, is topicals. So we'll get into them. But I got to know Colin, do you have a favorite chafing prevention method?

Oh, yeah, it's, it's my daily driver as well as usually my active driver as well, which is merino wool.

Ah, okay. So you're going with the fabric route.

I also have thick thighs to our, to our writer here and I'm prone to some rubbing. Sometimes you just, you don't know when it's going to strike.

Yeah, sometimes it just creeps up on you.

I did a 50 mile ultramarathon and I was, this was the last ultra I did and I was pretty tuned in about what I should wear, how I was doing it ran and everything that I trained in. And for whatever reason it was just a little bit more humid that day. But by mile 25, I had just some incredible chafe between, between some dangly bits in my thighs, you know, and it was, and it was at that point it was every aid station. Where's the Vaseline?

Oh, buddy.

Because I didn't have a, I didn't have a second pair. That was probably the mistake is I should have had some, some dry or some different shorts in my, in my kits at the aid station. But I do notice on the day to day, and if I do wear, you know, merino boxer briefs, it tends to kind of take care of everything, no matter what's going on.

So merino really is just the fabric of our lives.

Freaking.

Sorry. Cotton.

Yeah, you're out of cotton. You're not.

You're out of here, you loser.

Yeah.

All right, well, for me, I. I do love a topical. And I have ruled out anything powder based because. Yeah, I just.

No Gold Bond.

No, I think it's too messy. Anytime I have tried with powder, I just look like I sat into a pile of flour and then it turns into creepy little paste. Okay, well, that's like it's mixed in.

I will, like, if I do get some chafe and then like, just a little baby powder after, like, taking a shower or whatever, that does help. But I had a roommate once who always claimed Gold Bond powder was the best because it was like a menthol cigarette for your nuts.

I both love and hate that.

What's that? You don't hate that?

I don't. Yeah. I love it and I hate it is really what I'm thinking here.

I'm like, I was stuck with me. I'm like, that's hilarious.

I mean, I do. One of my guy friends will just stop at random to dump a bunch of powder into shorts when we go backpacking.

That makes sense.

Chucks it in there in, like, obscene quantities. I keep just piling it in there.

I'm like, you gotta get it into the crevices, I guess.

All right, so thick thighs. If you want to go the powder route, listen to Colin. I guess creams have worked out a bit better for me. My favorite right now is, and I love the name of it, Shammy Butter. And that's. But apostrophe are. Hey, good branding. Yeah. My mom gifted me this gargantuan tube, like, five years ago, and I thought I was going to become a mountain biker. It's probably expired by now, but it still works so fine. I just slather it. Like, before I go on a run. I'll slather down my inner thighs sometime. If it's really hot out. Butt crack, too. You just got to prevent it. You just don't want a chafed butt crack. Let me just tell you, a chafe booty is awful. But if we're talking about larger body parts or if I'm going on a backpacking trip and I don't want to bring, like, messy stuff, I like body glide.

Body glide is great.

Yeah, it's great. It looks like a little stick of deodorant. You can get it in a large or small size. I take a small one when I travel, and it's, you know, like, hot outside. Like, I'm going to New York this summer a couple of times. I'm going to bring Body Glide. And it's great for wearing skirts in the hot, hot weather. So, I mean, they sell. I'm sure you've seen this. They sell a women's version that is, of course, pink, that contains some extra emollients. But honestly, it just feels like, yeah.

Just make the same thing. Who gives a.

Just don't. We don't need Pinkett and Trinket when it comes to freaking chafing prevention. So the regular formula works just fine for me. I carry a small.

No, it doesn't, actually. You don't know. It's not women specific, Shantay. Okay.

It can't work for you guys. Can't handle it.

It's just too much body glide.

Oh, it's just gonna.

Like, you're just gonna slip and fall until I go sliding down a hill like a penguin on a glacier.

I can barely hike as it is.

Delicate sensibilities as a woman.

Oh, I'm so offended by the blue body glide. Can't use it.

Give me a break.

Love gendered body products.

Seriously, of all things.

Anyway, I also. I got to put in a plug for one more product, Thick thighs. And that is, you know, chafing basically, is also what causes blisters. So while we're talking about it, I carry on backpacking trips or along hikes. I'll carry a little jar of something called trail toes or a small tube of Aquaphor. And they're pretty much the same thing. So I'll just slather it on my feet before I start in the morning. And then I usually reapply in the afternoon. Sometimes I'll even change out my socks. Kind of like what Colin was talking about with. If you've been sweating through your fabrics, they're going to cause extra chafing. And honestly, it's. It's cheaper than all of the specific foot stuff that's out there being marketed to you that you can get at a cvs. Like, just carry the Aquaphor. It's fine. I mean, Carmex. I've tried Carmex too, and it works. It's a similar concept. You got the petroleum.

Did you get a Toyota Honda? What did you get from Carmax?

I got really stinky feet is what I got from Carmax.

I don't know. They sold those.

No, they. Absolutely. You smell like a rotten.

You're buying other people's feet.

Carmex, Max.

CarMax.

CarMax. You smell like an absolute rotting corpse is taken.

Sounds great.

At your feet.

Guess they're not going to sponsor the pot either.

Damn it. No. We're going for Aquaphor. Dream big. Okay.

Yeah, that's true.

Yeah. Down the Carmex. I mean, it works. It's the same concept. Just, it's like. It's like eating mountain house. You know, you're going to smell something at the end of the day that may not be good. Anyway, like, here's the thing. Thick thighs. Just wear the skirt. Wear it. Grease up before you start hiking. Reapply the second you feel any friction coming on, and I promise your thigh meat will. Thank you. It's absolutely worth it. Wear something that you enjoy hiking in that you're going to feel comfortable in. Know that you have a lot of options. If you try one thing, it doesn't work. Keep trying and enjoy the airflow.

I honestly forgot that this question was about skirts. I thought it was about chafing. And chafing it is.

Well, it's how to prevent chafing when you're wearing a skirt. But I really felt like if I'm gonna answer this, we can answer it for all potential chafings because it's inner thighs, booty, you know, bikini line, whatever. I mean, if your nips are chafing like people. A lot of people get cheap nipples when they run and stuff. So, you know, all of this can be prevented with merino wool.

No, no chafing with merino wool. Like, just don't wear cheap poly tease. Then you will be fine.

But cotton kills.

Well, that's better on your nipples than. Than Bali, even, if even it might kill you. But your nipples will feel great.

All right, Colin, I know that you and I would both probably continue to, like, you know, want to talk about my chafed butt crack, but I don't think so. I think the. The people want us to move on. All right, final question. Final question.

Okay, final question for the fourth episode. No, third episode.

Third episode. Third episode of Gear Abby in the future.

Man, I'm just going there. All right, here we go.

Future's bright.

Dear Gear Abby, I don't know if this will be relevant by the time you see this email, but I just saw that some guy had to go to court for cutting switchbacks in a national park. This seems sort of extreme if you ask me. What do you think? Signed Bob. Bob.

Just Bob. I like that Bob. Well, you know, you know what, lucky for you, Bob, Colin and I have nothing better to do than to wait for listener mail.

So boring days around here. Bob.

This is all we desire in this life as listener mail. So thank you. Perfect timing. Squeezing this one in under the wire.

Sorry I laughed at your name. Bob.

Yeah, rude, right? Could be Bobbert, Bobby Robert.

That'd be great to name your kid Bobert. I would have so much respect for those parents.

All right, so moving forward with Bob's real serious question for anybody who has no idea what our dearest friend Bob is talking about. Bobbert. Over a year ago, professional trail runner Michelino Sunseri set a speed record on the Grand Teton, making the round trip 2 hours 50 minutes 8 seconds, shaving a mere 3 minutes off the previous record. Infinitely faster than I could ever do it. But turns out that on his descent he used a popular use trail known as the old climbers trail which cut a switchback on the official trail which you can actually see on his GPS track from the run. So the facts, the folks over@festusknowntime.com dethroned him, the National Park Service issued a citation and then the whole thing led to Sunseri being charged and convicted of a misdemeanor last week. Week or a couple weeks? No, last week by a federal judge and they are still determining whether he's going to be, you know, banned from Grand Teton national park and or fined for his indiscretion. So one important thing to know here, actually I'm going to give you a couple important things but Sinceri actually tried to work it out with the park over this past year before the case ever went to trial. So he argued that the use trail he took is a popular one and that there just wasn't proper signage at the top. So he's going top bottom at that, you know, he's returning at this point that indicated it was closed by the park or that he shouldn't take it. The park service said otherwise. He also offered essentially he conspired himself to do self ordered community service to help create new signage or you know, otherwise kind of make it right. And you should know the park service eventually backed down on wanting this guy to go to court in the first place. But the feds were apparently out for sweet, sweet trail runner blood.

But luckily he doesn't have to go to jail.

Yeah, I mean yes, thankfully there were.

Some thoughts that he may was going to have to go to jail for this.

Yeah, I thought that was bananas.

Yeah.

So, I mean, okay, my feelings here. Yes. Switchbacks are really important trail building tools that exist for a reason. I am somebody who's done trail work and trail maintenance, and let me tell you, it is hard as shit to go out there. I was actually talking to Agnes Vanzan from Eastern Sierra Conservation Corps the other day and reminiscing about the first time I did trail work. And we got like a quarter mile done, and I was like, that's all right. It takes so damn long to build and maintain trails, guys. Yes. But, okay, so switchbacks are important. Cutting them does cause erosion. It doesn't just make it difficult for hikers going through those sections, but also. And cyclists and others. But it also uproots plants and, you know, kind of further disturbs the habitat for animals, insects, microorganisms, the whole shebang. So, yeah, spend the extra 10 seconds it takes you to walk the switchback or roll the switchback or how are you getting around that switchback? And, you know, think about how nice it is that you aren't an earthworm trying to avoid having your underground housing network constantly trampled by lazy humans. But also, I think this trial was a colossal waste of time and resources. Like, huge. I think the best possible outcome would have been having this guy, a sponsored athlete, continue contribute to, like, trail mitigation, trail work, education, since the park was apparently trying to let that use trail kind of go back to a natural state and use this platform for good. Make it a teachable moment, not just this example of judicial overreach. I mean, do the feds really think that no one's gonna cut a switchback ever again because Michelino Censori made an error in judgment and became a national spectacle? I guarantee you, most people who are out hiking, casual users are not even paying attention to this news. Uh, it's. It's not happening. But I mean, at the end of the day, I. I am personally always on the side of education over punitive action whenever possible, just as a general rule in life. I'm a big believer in the idea of restorative justice, transformative justice that is kind of this idea of both repairing harm but also changing the circumstances that lead to it in the first place. Um, and I just think that's so much more powerful than just straight up punishing people for their misdeeds. Um, plus, I honestly think we have much bigger fish to fry than some speed freak cutting a switchback. I don't know, Colin, what do you Think.

I totally agree. I mean, I have to assume that because this was in a national park that it got so much attention or that they decided to even pick this fight.

Yeah.

And it's on a high use trail, and I don't know. I don't even know what you're preventing by even really going after this guy. But, like, whatever. I agree in the kind of. Like you. I agree in the principle of it shouldn't be cutting switchbacks. You should run on the trail. It's kind of a bullshit move to be cutting switchbacks. But the way the guy handled it, I think, to your point, like, there is an upside there. There's good PR to be had there. Like, make him make a PSA that you put on YouTube. I mean, there's. There's a lot of sense of humor.

The more, you know. Yeah.

The National Park Service has a great sense of humor. If you follow them on Instagram, like, have a. Have him out there with, like, Smokey Bear, like, you know, doing stuff. I just. There's so many ways that this could have gone that have turned it into a positive. And he offered to do it. Is it. He's a North Face athlete.

Is that what he's saying? Yeah. Yeah. One of. Yeah, that's one of the things he tells me that probably his main spot. Right.

Like, North Face wouldn't have just jumped on board and like a bunch of mud and paid for the whole thing and then also reaped the good PR that came with it.

Right.

I'm with you. They're positive. Always wins. If he had been just like, a dick. If he'd been like, hey, fuck you, I'm gonna then whatever, then. Then fine, prosecute the guy. But just. This is just a fail across the board. And I. Part of me feels like, is this, you know, representative of our current presidential administration who just wants to go after everybody? But this was going on well before that happened.

Yep. So this is just a weird anomaly. I don't understand why, you know, you can look at actually other FKTs on, you know, and fkt attempts on the Teton, and you could see other people.

Oh, he was not the first.

Same route. He was not the first. Not the first.

Just a big missed opportunity. Just a.

Initially, no opportunity. Yeah.

Yeah.

Sorry, buddy. Good luck to you. Hope this does not derail your future running delights. That's it for this episode of Gear Abby. Until next time, send us your burning questions, but not your burning chafe about your relationships with outdoor people products, places and pastimes over@myrockfightmail.com and I'm gonna do my best to answer them or find someone else who will. Today's episode. This episode was produced by David Karstad and Colin True. Art direction provided by Sarah Gensert. And I'm Chante Salibar. And remember, there are no dumb questions, just smart advice.