Hey, good to see you again and a warm welcome back to Heroes Behind the Badge.

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Citizens behind the badge.org.

That's Citizens behind the badge.org.

I'm your host, Dennis Collins, a founding director of Citizens Behind the Badge

and a law enforcement father, please say hello, as usual to my colleagues

William Erfurth, that are known to his friends and some of his enemies as Billy.

How you doing today, sir?

I am good, and I just wanna take this opportunity to remind everyone,

wherever you go to listen or view these podcasts, please like and

follow so that you can be alerted.

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You will be the first to know you'll have a leg up on everybody.

So subscribe, follow, and like.

Thank you.

Uh, bill, by the way, as a retired Miami-Dade police Lieutenant.

26 years of decorated service.

He is also a founding director of Citizens Behind the Badge.

And now Craig Floyd, our fearless leader.

Craig is the founder, president, and CEO of Citizens Behind the Badge.

You probably know Craig as the founding CEO Emeritus of the National

Law Enforcement Memorial and the Police Museum in Washington, dc.

Craig, thanks again for our fancy uniforms.

We're getting, I'm, I'm loving these uniforms, man.

Thanks for, uh, outfitting us here.

We just have to get together on the uniform of the day.

I guess?!

We look really sharp, if I may say so, Dennis.

Um, but, and, and you know, our brand, we have Heroes Behind the Badge podcast, and

then we have Citizens Behind the Badge.

The organization that produces this podcast.

And just a reminder to everybody, if you go to our website, uh, citizens Behind

the badge.org, uh, you're going to hear all the older podcasts that we've done.

You're gonna see all the statements we've made about what's happening

in law enforcement today.

And, uh, we're working hard to, uh, end this, uh, this defund

and defame the police movement.

Uh, get law enforcement the resources they need and get more cops out there.

Uh, patrolling our streets.

Uh, we lost a lot of 'em during that defund movement, but, uh,

thankfully they're coming back.

Thankfully they're coming back.

And the other thing is citizens behind the badge.

And heroes behind the badge.

We never forget today's hero.

Dedicated a half century, 50 years of his life serving and protecting

as a member of law enforcement.

Okay?

22 years as a Secret Service special agent, eight of those years

on the prestigious presidential protective detail, and almost three

decades as a police chief of the Orland Illinois Police Department.

So like many of our heroes, their decades of distinguished and decorated

public service is highlighted by sometimes one event on one day.

In this gentleman's case, it was March 30th, 1981.

President Reagan was three months into his term, he was speaking

at the Washington Hilton Hotel.

He finished his speech and was heading back to his car in 1.7 seconds.

Six gunshots rang out from the small crowd outside the hotel shots

aimed directly at President Reagan.

Today's hero I. Secret Service agent Tim McCarthy was assigned

to the presidential production detail on the day shift that day.

The story goes though that it was his day off, but he lost a coin flip to one of

his colleagues and showed up for work.

Little did he know he would find himself in the middle of an assassination attempt.

He'd be called upon to take the ultimate action.

To stop an assassin's bullet from reaching their intended target for some

of the older members of our audience, you likely will never forget those

shocking videos we all saw at the time of that incident played over and

over again for our younger audience.

You're about to hear the real story from the real hero.

Behind the badge, a very warm welcome to retired Secret Service agent

and retired chief of the Orland Police Department, Tim McCarthy.

Tim.

Thanks for joining us.

Thanks for your decades of service.

Uh, we are delighted to have you as our guest on today's podcast,

but j uh, Craig and Bill will have tons of questions for you.

But you know me, I gotta ask at least one question here.

Is it true, I've heard this story for years and I I tried to confirm it again

before we, uh, uh, had this interview.

Is it true that that was your day off, or was that fiction?

Uh.

Paul, it was not my day off.

However, on that particular day, we had one extra agent.

Uh, the, the president only travels in that inner perimeter with a

certain number of agents, Uhhuh.

We had an extra agent that day.

So we were, two of us were both of the same rank about a sergeant, so to speak,

and the agent in charge said, well, you're all, you've both been briefed, you're both

ready to go, but we've got one too many.

One would stay back.

Now it was raining out that day.

The car we ride in, the follow up car leaked at that time.

It was an old nice, an old convertible type of limousine.

So we flipped a coin and I lost, I went, as a result, I got wet among

other things and shot at the same time.

Now the the ancients who.

Won the coin toss that stayed, uh, stayed back.

An outstanding agent.

He went on to win like $4 million in the Pennsylvania State lottery.

So one of these people that had a horseshoe up, uh, well hit geez, a

lucky streak, let me put it that way.

For sure.

Well, we are delighted to have you and delighted to honor you

as a true hero behind the badge.

Thank you.

I'll, I will share, uh, the stage now with Mr. Craig Floyd.

Tim, um, you and I go back a ways.

We've been together on a number of events.

You helped us build the National Law Enforcement Museum and in 2017, uh,

we did a, an event together called Witness to History, and we talked

about the assassination attempt on President Reagan and your role in that.

I. Um, and, and there was a story that came out that night, uh, I'll never

forget it, by the host Tom Sherwood.

He's a local news guy, and he, he told us a story about, uh, right before

the assassination attempt, president Reagan was speaking to a group of labor

leaders and, uh, he ended his speech.

By asking them to please join him so that we can make America great again.

And I, I love that story.

Uh, usually we attribute that, uh, quote to President Trump, but

it was in fact President Reagan that first coined that saying.

And uh, I'd say President Trump did a pretty good job of, uh, carrying

that on, uh, in his victory.

Uh, his double victory, I guess we could call it in 16 and 24.

March 30th, 1981.

He's coming out of that speech to the Labor Union, and,

uh, everything seemed fine.

Uh, I, I guess in hindsight we're all a little surprised that the public was

allowed so close to President Reagan, just a matter of a few feet where, uh,

John Hinkley and, and others had gathered that day as President Reagan was leaving.

Um, pick it up where, um, you know, you're now on duty.

Obviously you've covered that part of the story.

Um, and how in the world did we allow the public that close, and how was he able to

get those shots off in, in rapid fashion and how you reacted the way you did.

Uh, take us through those moments if you would.

Well, let me, uh, start about, uh, Craig, you brought up a great point that

has often been overlooked of why the.

General public was, was allowed to be so close.

And that was a top of conversation, uh, for a long time in the Secret Service.

Why we were not using metal detectors, you know, they were pretty common at the time,

uh, being used at airports, uh, major events, but we were not using them and

I don't have any firsthand information.

We asked about it, but we were told.

Um, the story goes that during the past administrations, including

the Reagan administration, that they didn't want it to look like.

A siege atmosphere around the president.

Well, every day cards and letters come into the White House.

People are being interviewed on the street who have made

threats against the President.

So frankly, it's a mystery to me this day why we didn't have them, other

than the stories anecdotally that, uh, they didn't want it to appear to be a

siege atmosphere around the president.

Now, the day after this happened, and I give the credit to Mrs. Reagan.

That I'm told, uh, let it be known that metal detectors will

be used from here on in to screen.

Everyone that comes in contact with the president.

And from that time on, after he got outta the hospital, anyone who came

in close proximity to the president went through a metal detector.

Now I'll tell you, it's no coincidence since March 30th, 1981, that the

historic assassin being the lone gunman.

Uh, John Hinckley, lone gunman that we haven't had an assassination

attempt by the lone gunman.

So metal detectors used properly in the uniform division of the

Secret Service, handles them.

Very professional, very good at what they do.

They're not foolproof, but they're, they can be pretty close.

I don't believe it's, it's not a coincidence that we haven't had

an assassination attempt since the introduction of the metal detectors.

So.

That's as much as I really know about why or why not.

We were not using metal detectors at the time.

If, and they can be used anywhere.

They operate on batteries, generators, so you can be in the middle of a farm

field and still use metal detectors.

You know, there's, uh, they're very versatile.

There's so many new models now that, uh, are, have AI capability.

Are above and beyond just a simple metal detector.

Uh, but going back to that day, Craig, it was.

Uh, the president was speaking to the building trade unions, uh,

many of whom are from Chicago.

Friends of mine in particular, the Illinois delegation was right up

front of the president since he was from originally from Illinois.

Um, if you read his diary, which he kept, he didn't think he did too well

at that speech, but it, it really went over well by all accounts.

Now, naturally, he was a Republican and the, and the labor unions are.

Uh, appeared to be more democratic in nature.

But, you know, I was there and it was, uh, got a rousing applause and, you know, uh,

you know, his economic agenda turned out to be good for the country, both for labor

and management from what I, I recall.

But anyway, he gave a speech.

We were going back outside now, remember the president, he'd only

been in office for a couple of months.

He was on a very, very tight schedule, so there was no information when we did

our briefings that he'd work a rope line.

It was right back to the limo, back to the White House.

So we got outside, uh, we were heading towards the armored car.

Uh, part of my responsibility in the position I was in was to make

sure that that car door was open.

It was also the responsibility of the site advance agent.

It was open as it was supposed to be, and we were approaching the car, and

you have to have your head on a bit of a swivel because even though I.

The briefing was going straight to the car, no rope lines.

You never know if that's gonna happen or not, and everyone is naturally

yelling, Mr. President, Mr. President.

So I looked at the president to try to get an idea what he was doing, looked

back at the crowd and just in be as we were within feet of the, the, the

protection of the armored car, as well as the armored door of the car, which

opened backwards on that older model car.

Uh, John Hinkley pushed himself forward and fired his.

Six rounds in about one and a half, uh, one and one and a half seconds.

And that was out of a revolver, uh, not out of a, a pistol.

And he hit four people.

And, uh, you know, um, Tom Delahanty was hit in the back of the neck.

Tim Brady was hit literally between the eyes on his forehead.

Later killed him.

But however, John Hinkley was found not guilty by reason of insanity.

So even though it became a homicide, he could not never be tried for it.

Um, I was hit in the right chest and the president was hit under the left armpit

by the fifth round that ricocheted off the right rear quarter panel of the car.

Jerry Power and Ray Shaddock were pushing the president into the armored car.

He had his hands out in front of him to cushion the blow.

And that ricochet round hit him under the left armpit.

And it was many years later when the a MA, the American Medical

Association actually released all of the medical records to show how close

the president actually came to death.

Uh, you know, it, uh, during his, uh, time in the emergency room and

so forth, you know, there were some, uh, moments when he was in very,

very critical, uh, uh, condition.

So.

I was taken to George Washington Hospital, along with Jim Brady and the president,

Tom Delahanty went to Washington Metro and the, uh, metropolitan Police,

that's where they take injured police.

Uh, and it's one of those hospitals that sure as heck knows how to deal with bullet

wounds, uh, as does George Washington.

But that was their protocol to go there.

So we were all treated, and of course, Jim Brady was the most seriously injured.

Tom Delehanty retired as a result of, of the injury to his neck.

Uh, I was back on duty in about, uh, uh, three months, uh, back

onto the Presidential protective Division, and of course, Jim Brady

was disabled for the rest of his life.

And it was only a few years ago that his injuries led to his death.

So Tim, a, a, a quick question about that.

So you and the president were both taken to the same hospital and

their stories about the fact that you were relatively close to each

other during, during recovery.

How quickly did he recover versus you recover and when

you were both finally released?

Well, I was out of the hospital, um, bill in about 11 days.

Okay.

Uh, and then recovered at home.

And naturally I had to get back to a level of physical fitness to pass the physical

agility test, you know, the running and jumping and all that type of thing.

And, uh, my surgery required, you know, cutting, uh, a scar, you

know, from right down your sternum, down to your, below your waist.

So they cut through all of the, uh, you know, stomach

muscles and things like that.

So it took a while.

For me to recover.

Uh, the president, uh, was stayed in the hospital a little bit longer, uh,

but he, uh, began, it was less than a month later, as I recall that he

was, you know, his, he was starting to, uh, uh, have a full schedule.

So the recovery was quick.

The GW doctors were outstanding.

Um, and I always kid around, people ask me, so who got the best doctors there?

Uh, and we all got outstanding, uh, medical treatment as, as evidenced

by the fact I was out in 11 days.

Now, Jim Brady, they did everything they, they could for Jim, but the, you

know, taken around to the forehead is, is catastrophic under any circumstances.

And of course, as we know, he was disabled the rest of his life.

The, um, uh, I remember at the witness to history event, a, a very,

uh, interesting, uh, story came out.

You told, uh, you were getting ready to be discharged from the hospital,

and President Reagan summoned you down to, uh, his hospital room, uh, for

a meeting with you and your family.

I, I wish you'd, uh, recollect that for our viewers and listeners.

Well, Craig was on my last day in the hospital and I was packing

up, uh, getting ready to go, and I had two children at that time.

We had a third one born later.

Uh, and my wife and I and the two kids I. I got a, a call, the president

would like to see you up in his room.

And that sounded a bit like an order to me.

And, uh, we marched on up there and met with the president.

Mrs. Reagan was there.

His, the windows on his, um, hospital room now had armored glass, so he really, uh,

before the time of water, white glass.

So it was distorted a bit and he was.

Complaining a little bit about, you know, it's my first spring in, uh, Washington DC

and the cherry blossoms, you know, uh, DC is known for that and I'm gonna miss that.

So we had a nice conversation.

Two of my kids, they, the president was still hooked up to a lot of things that I

was hooked up to, you know, flashing red lights and green lights and so forth that

would attract the attention of young kids.

And it was attracting the attention of my kids who wanna

go play with those machines.

They thought they were toys rather than medical instruments.

So we were having a great conversation.

The president was talking about how we were gonna, uh, get together

for dinner, you know, and a lot of, I. Just wonderful conversation.

Him, you know, you know, saying, you know, thanks for doing your job that day, along

with others that did their job well too.

But my wife, no, was getting very nervous, noticing the kids, you know,

paying so much attention to these instruments connected to the president,

and I would see she was getting nervous.

So he, uh, all of a sudden she, you know, well, we better get going.

And it was, uh, we had great conversation with the president, so we're just heading

out the, the door when the president stopped and said, Hey, Tim, wait a minute.

Listen, it was Reagan, McCarthy, Brady, Dhani.

What the hell did this guy have against the Irish?

And, and I think the moral of that story was, you know, in critical incident

trauma, there's a theory that people that go through a critical incident

can, uh, a third of the people can never go back to their job again.

And, and perform the way they once did another third, third,

it only mildly affects them.

And another third, it doesn't affect them at all.

And the president was a great example that he was able to find

humor, uh, and some good in what was a terrible, terrible tragedy.

So that was a great example for me.

And one of the reasons, and you know, my father was a sergeant in the Chicago

Police Department, so, and all of our neighborhood where police are

fire in the south side of Chicago.

So this type of thing was, was not unheard of.

Uh, growing up though, I never thought it would happen to me, and, but he was

a great example of how to, you know, get back on your feet and get back on the job.

And, uh, you know, I was only about 31 years old at the time and I wasn't

ready to, I guarantee I wasn't ready to retire by any stretch of the imagination.

And, uh, so, uh, went through recovery rehab and was back on

a job about three months later.

After that.

I mean, and oftentimes in different agencies, after you're involved in a

shooting situation or wounded or critical incident, you get a nice cushy position

after that, what happened for you?

No, there was no cushy position.

Uh, went back on the detail, I think on midnights by the way.

And, uh, right back into it, it was a little bit uncomfortable

getting back in the saddle again, so to speak, just to, uh, you know.

I, I was, I wasn't, you know, people were giving me a lot of credit and so

forth, but I wasn't Superman before that time, and I certainly wasn't afterwards.

So, uh, I did what I did based upon training, uh, not anything else.

So, but I was happy to get back, back to work.

Uh, you know, I, I. You know, I loved what I was doing.

It was, uh, so interesting, so challenging, uh, along the way too

that, uh, you know, talking to my parents and everyone, there was no,

there was no doubt that as soon as I was ready, I was going back to work.

And quite frankly, my wife, I think, was happy to get me back

to work and get out of the house.

So, yeah.

So did you ever have that dinner of us that are married?

Yes.

Did, did you ever end up having that dinner with Reagan?

And, and how, uh, how did the Reagans and everyone.

Treat you thereafter?

Well, yes we did.

And it was on St. Patrick's Day.

Now I'm still a, an agent on the, just an agent.

Uh, probably the, as a grade 13, you were the rank of, of a sergeant basically.

So my wife and I were in both invited to a St. Patrick's

Day dinner at the White House.

I sat at a table with the president, tip O'Neill, other high level politicians.

I believe John Wayne or and other Hollywood actors, my wife was at a table

with Mrs. Reagan, m O'Hara and others.

Um.

It was great.

You know, they came around.

Would you like a beverage, sir? Well, I would've loved to have had a beer,

but naturally I wasn't going there.

Uh, and it was a wonderful, wonderful time and, uh, uh, but it was, you know, here

are all my colleagues who are, you know, working and I'm there at this dinner.

So, but it, it was wonderful.

Uh, had many other opportunities to interact with the president

and Mrs. Reagan and on my.

Second, uh, you know, I did four years a year with President Carter.

Three with President Reagan was transferred back to Chicago and then

transferred back again for three more years with President Reagan

and a year with President Bush.

And, uh, on my second tour, one of my supervisory responsibilities was, uh.

Mrs. Reagan's detail, uh, to, uh, along with several, uh, training and

the transportation section, and of course primarily with the president.

Um, and we had many.

Conversations with Mrs. Reagan up on the second floor of the residence,

uh, to talk about different things, largely operational,

uh, but, you know, occasionally personal things would come up too.

So, um, we became pretty close.

Um, I, of course was at, uh, president Reagan's funeral and I was

at Mrs. Reagan's funeral as well.

So it was a interesting, uh, eight years under presidential protective division.

Um, it, it's, it's very tough.

Because the amount of travel, the time away, shift work, things of that nature.

Uh, it's a tough assignment, but, uh, it's one that, um, I,

I'll give you a short story.

Um, from time to time we were, we were allowed to give tours of the

West Wing when the president was, uh.

Away from typically a camp David or away.

So you do have days off somewhere and uh, you don't always, uh, every

day you're not with the president.

So you get requests from time to time from your fellow agents, Hey, I

got some people coming in from town.

Could you meet 'em down there and just take 'em on a quick tour of

the West Wing that allows 'em to see the Oval Office in the cabinet room.

So, uh, uh, I did it for one of my fellow agents and it was a couple

from, uh, Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania.

Nice gentleman with his family, three or four people, they went through

the metal detectors and everything and so forth and name checked.

And, uh, took him on a quick tour of the West Wing.

And, uh, we came out and, uh, he turned to me and he said, you know,

Tim, he said, uh, uh, I've got many millions of dollars I own.

Numerous companies and, and he was letting me know how wealthy,

rich, maybe influential he was.

Not in a bad way because he said, but you know what?

You've got that badge on.

You can go right into that Oval office and you can go right into this White

House complex and I can't do that.

And he says, boy, it's really, and he was doing it just re remarking, you know, of

reminding me and others, what a privilege.

It's a tough job, don't get me wrong.

But the privilege is extended to you as a result of that position.

So he wasn't bragging by any means, he was just, you know, making a comparison.

Um, I, I wanna go back a bit to the shooting itself.

Um, I was struck by the fact that when I met you, uh, back in 2017, we were talking

about this incident and you remarked that, you know, here your job is to take

a bullet, uh, if, if necessary, to protect the president of the United States.

Yet you were not wearing a bullet resistant vest.

Um, I'm, I'm, that's one of my pet peeves.

Every officer needs to be wearing his vest.

Every officer needs to be wearing their seatbelt when driving a vehicle.

Um, and a lot of 'em don't.

And, uh, back in 1981, it might not have been as, uh, popular as

it is today among law enforcement, but you were not wearing your vest.

And I, I'm just curious as to why, and has that changed over the years?

Well, my wife asked that too, Craig, why I wasn't wearing it that day.

And we were all fitted with vests.

We had them.

Now the vests back then in 81 aren't anywhere near as good as the ones we have

now in 2025 that are, uh, more flexible.

And ours were, were form fitted, but now they're even more

form fitted, more flexible.

Not quite as hot, but they're hot under any circumstances.

So the policy at that time was that you didn't wear them, that you could wear

24 7 if you wanted to, but it was only required if there was adverse intelligence

information or on foreign trips.

So, no, I didn't have it on that day.

There was no intelligence to indicate anything outta the ordinary.

In fact, no one had him on that day, and we had bulletproof vests for the

president too, by the way, of every type of garment that you can imagine.

After that, it became mandatory on almost all occasions to wear it.

Uh, but they weren't quite as, they're never gonna be really comfortable.

But, uh, you know, they weren't flexible at all at that time.

Uh, probably weren't nearly as form fitted as they are now.

But no, it wasn't the policy to wear them on all occasions.

And on that occasion, I was not wearing it.

And, uh, if I had had that on, I would've, uh, it, uh, it would've been.

The round would've never been, it would've been inconsequential at, at totally

Have there been other policy changes, Tim, uh, since that incident, uh, you

mentioned the metal detectors being used.

Uh, anything else that comes to mind that's done differently today

than back in that I. Uh, 1981?

The counter assault teams were on, on site all the time and in the motorcade.

Uh, it wasn't long after that that Anwar Sadat was killed by his

own military in a very organized assault and af and that has changed.

I. And then there's been other, uh, changes in the advance work that I'm,

I'm not gonna get into Craig, because it's sure things that need not be, uh,

released, but there's been other changes in the advance work that's being done,

how it's being done, how the crowds are being monitored and things of that nature.

Tim, you did mention earlier about how there hasn't been another assassination

attempt since the implementation of the metal metal detectors on the president.

On the president, yeah.

On, on the president.

But let's, let's talk about, uh, well, I guess he was the

president elect then, right?

For Trump and those two circumstances that everybody's familiar with, I mean, those

people, uh, in both situations weren't.

Part of a crowd or near the president where they would've gone through,

uh, a metal detector obviously, but, but, uh, let's get your insight and

thoughts about those two situations.

Sure.

Butler was a complete failure.

Uh, while there is a distinct perimeter, which is set up largely

for handguns using metal detectors, any area that the president is in.

The secure area is infinite It.

It doesn't stop at a fence.

It doesn't stop anywhere.

That's why you have counter sniper teams up there, which.

I was surprised, frankly, as at that time he was a former president, a

candidate but not a president-elect.

And they did use metal detectors there, but the perimeter doesn't end at the

fence line or at the perimeter, uh, of where people are being screened.

And that's why you have counter sniper teams.

And a simple failure was not posting that building of putting someone on it.

And it appears to me, and I saw the report that was done, pardon me,

that they relied upon the counter sniper team to cover the building.

That's not their role to cover the building.

Their role is to, uh, react to a threat on the building, but

it should have been covered.

And it was not simple, uh, mis uh, a catastrophic mistake that

should have never happened.

And the.

Uh, the advanced agents, you know, there's, I haven't seen the consequences

yet for it, but it was a failure and it was a, it was a failure that

should never, ever have happened.

The building and any other building within reasonable range should have

been posted and secured, didn't happen.

And there was other buildings, I think there was a water tower

that wasn't posted either, so it was a failure, plain and simple.

So what, what, what about the communications?

You know, when, when, when I was working our SRT teams and Dignitary Protection

people would work with the SE Secret Service in and around Miami all the time.

When people would come in and, and we were al it was always

linked up with communications.

You could communicate directly back and forth.

And, you know, even, uh, in Trump's first.

Presidency.

I had, uh, been requested and had the opportunity to drive in his

motorcade on a couple occasions.

So, you know, I saw the communications and so that, that whole thing in

Butler, I was just surprised how there was a lack of radio communications

and, and the passing of the buck.

I just, uh, didn't understand all that.

It was not the, uh, presentations by the former director and the.

Uh, interim director.

Were, were not our best days.

Uh, but communications were totally flawed as well.

Now, as you know, bill, everyone can't be on the same channel.

You, you know, when a, when a incident takes place, you know,

communications break down.

But what should have happened is that they sh the, uh, communications should

have been an integrated communication center where everyone is there.

The sheriff, the city sheriff, secret Service.

Everyone in that room, they don't have to be on top of each other.

So, so information is shared.

You're, you're 10 or 20 feet apart, we just got information.

You just walk over and give it to your counterpart.

Uh, being on the same frequency.

If something happens, communications break down.

So that's what should have happened.

And apparently that didn't happen either.

And you know, there was, uh, you know, there's information about

someone with a range finder, and I know they did finally get it out.

It didn't get out in a timely fashion, and they never really put all the, the,

the dots together of what was happening.

So there was a breakdown in communications that might've prevented

this, and there was a breakdown in the advance that would've prevented it.

Uh, in my view.

There was also a breakdown.

They did have the drone technology there and it wasn't working, so they

would've been able to detect the drone.

It didn't work, so they weren't able to detect that it was there.

Um, so there was multiple breakdowns, but the biggest one was if someone

had been posted on that building, in spite of all the other mistakes

that were made, it would've largely probably prevented it or there would've

been a shootout between, uh, the gunman and the officer posted there.

So, uh, total breakdown, lot of inexperience.

Um.

Uh, a lot of inexperienced agents there that might've been thrust into roles

that they really weren't prepared for.

Um, so, uh, getting over to West Palm

while we, we had weeks before we had Butler, now we just had one assassination

attempt and it appears to me that they.

Uh, the president goes golfing almost every Sunday.

Everybody knows it.

I know it, you know it, everyone knows it.

If he's in, in West Palm, he's going golfing on Sunday to his golf course.

Um, so we have this person that gets there 12 hours ahead of time

and plants himself in the bushes.

There is no one covering that roadway next to it.

It should have been blocked off.

Or at least posted with officers, agents, or both.

And that wasn't done and they acted as if it was an off the record movement.

And off the record, movements have an element of security connected to them

if no one knows they're going there.

But with everyone knows that former President Trump golfs on Sunday and they

had a golf cart ahead of the president.

So, you know, um, golf courses are measured in yards.

Not feet.

And we know pistols.

You know, we're, we're pretty good up to about 25 yards.

Some, some of our colleagues are good further than that.

And I don't know quite how far away he was from, um, the president, but

the agent, as far as I know, that engaged him and, and really did a

superb job spotting him, engaging him.

As far as I know, he engaged him with his pistol.

And, uh, it would've been a lot better off if he was engaging him with an M

four, and I am curious why he didn't have one in my police department.

We got m fours 25 years ago.

For patrol officers, you had to qualify, of course, and as far as I

know, he engaged him with a pistol.

But why?

It was treated as an off the record impromptu movement, literally weeks

after an assassination attempt.

That road wasn't, if nothing else, while he was on the, the holes adjacent

to a pub, uh, a public highway, they should have been blocked off.

Uh, they should have been blocked off and posted in my view, and

they were not so mistakes again.

And I haven't seen the reports, so I don't know much about exactly why it wasn't.

Who is responsible for, you know, deciding that an off the record, that this should

be treated as an off the record movement.

So haven't seen the report on that yet and waiting for it to come out.

What remarkable insights from Tim McCarthy on both the 1981 Reagan assassination

attempt and the recent incidents involving former President Trump.

Tim's expert analysis highlights how security protocols have evolved

and where they still fall short.

In part two of our conversation, we'll explore Tim's perspective

on Secret Service leadership.

We'll discuss the controversy or release of John Hinckley Jr and

we'll hear about his impressive 26 year career as a police chief.

You won't want to miss Tim's unique insights.

On the challenges facing law enforcement today drawn from his half century of

service, join us for the conclusion of our conversation with a true

Hero Behind the Badge, tim McCarthy.

This is Dennis Collins for Heroes Behind the Badge, brought to you

by Citizens Behind the Badge.