Jeremy Stevens is a 26 year industry veteran, stylist, salon owner, brand ambassador, global artist who has worked with brands like being an educator for Keratin Complex, a brand ambassador for Babylon Pro Global Artists for Living Proof, on the impact team for Biotech Blowout.

He is also the artistic director for Birmingham Fashion Week as well as doing plenty of print, digital, editorial and catalog work.

Today we're going to hear about how Jeremy got to where he is and what are the lessons he learned along the way and what are the steps that were integral into his success.

Just so in case you want to do it too.

Welcome back to the Hair Just a strong show.

My name is Robert Hughes and I am your host and today I'm with Jeremy Stevens.

How are you doing today, Jeremy?

I'm doing very well, Robert.

How are you?

Thanks so much for having me.

I'm so good.

Thank you so much for coming on the show.

Looking forward to this.

To give the audience some context, I met Jeremy at Presley Poe and Friends.

So shout out to Presley Poe and Corey and Katie from hairdistry.

What an awesome event.

Also to the risers at the Temple School and Frederick, Maryland.

Thank you so much for this opportunity to get together.

And when you were up on stage and you were doing your thing, I heard you say that you were working with these different brands and you said living Proof.

And that's the, for some reason that caught my, my, my ear more than say some of the other brand.

And that is because if I'm, I mean, correct me if I'm wrong, is that a direct to consumer brand?

It's both actually.

And it's funny that you mentioned that.

So yes, it's a professional brand but it is sold direct to consumer.

And part of the way that I got on board with the team is the company decided to develop a pro focused, specific team so that we don't lose our professionals and our salon footing.

So that's actually how I got on board with the brand.

And to your point too, that's how I was aware of the brand too because it's already such a popular brand.

You know, from a consumer perspective, it was kind of a no brainer when they approached me.

And so that's, that's kind of how I got involved is there they're spending a lot more effort and energy making sure that we connect with the stylists too.

That is, I find that so interesting because there's a lot of direct to consumer brands and I'm curious to know how many of them have or are looking for People, that sounds like an opportunity in of itself.

So we'll, we'll get to that.

Let's start at the beginning.

So, so how did you get into the industry?

Did you go to school?

Did you do an apprenticeship?

Is this a second career or you've been into doing into the industry for, you know, since you were however old.

Can you give us a little bit of like your origin story?

Sure, no problem.

I like to call myself a lifer.

I sort of accidentally fell into the industry.

I was a music education major in college as soon as I graduated from high school.

So I was a band nerd.

Card carrying band nerd proudly so.

And I always, just the short version of that is I really enjoyed college.

I just didn't really enjoy class.

And so I, I came home for a academic break just to give myself a chance to kind of get my thoughts together.

And during that time period, this would have been in the late 90s.

The guy that I was seeing at the time had actually heard of apprenticeship programs that you could do into the industry.

I hadn't really ever had any specific interest, but it was, you know, one of those things.

There was a local salon that was doing a group interview for apprentices and I hadn't decided if I was going to go back to college yet.

And honestly, they were paying the same thing I was making at the other job that I was doing.

So I thought, why not give this a try?

So I showed up for the interview kind of as a plus one, and I ended up getting an apprenticeship position.

The salon that I started with was a member of a group called intercoifure.

At the time, that was sort of the umbrella under which all things fashion and education came through in our industry.

So right out of the gate I had a chance to have sort of a toe into that side of the industry too especially.

I know you can't tell from my accent, but I'm from the south and the industry side of what we do definitely at that point in the late 90s was it didn't have as big of a footprint.

And so I don't know that I would have known that early in the game that this sort of thing existed at the time if I hadn't had the opportunity to do that through that specific apprenticeship program.

So I completed my apprenticeship program there at the salon.

And honestly, out of just fear and stubbornness, I delayed getting my license for about another year.

So once I finally got my license and I became more confident in sort of, you know, how to approach the clients behind the chair Everything just sort of took off from there.

The salon that I was working with was at the time working unofficially with some brands.

And so what we now call the education industry, that was sort of where I got my start there, you know, as an assistant and an apprentice to the salon owner.

She worked a lot with other brands and endorsed different color brands and that sort of thing.

And so that's what sort of got the wheels turning in my head, that that was sort of a thing at some point once I got established behind the chair.

So that's interesting.

So you, so you, you give some credit of how, why or slash, how you are involved with the brands from your apprenticeship in the places you worked?

Absolutely.

I think that anytime you start a new career, especially if you're young, I was 19 years old whenever I started this process.

You don't really understand how big that opportunity could be and you don't understand how long a career should be at the time.

So it wasn't something that I was actively pursuing.

And because of that, yes, I think that the opportunity to be around the people who were already doing that type of work and to see the success that they were seeing outside of the salon space was definitely motivation to give me an idea that there could be something much more than my career behind the chair.

So I would definitely say that having the chance to work among people who are in the industry had a huge impact on where I am now.

Nice.

Nice.

Okay, so how long?

Well, I guess.

First question, did you.

How.

Yeah, I guess.

How long were you at that salon?

I was there for six years.

Just over six years, actually.

And how long was your training program?

The training program was probably two.

It was 18 months, you know, officially an 18 month program in the state of Alabama with the way that we register our hours.

But even during that time with an apprenticeship, at least then here in Alabama, you could see clients in the salon as long as your supervising stylist was present.

So the official program was 18 months, ironically, when I first started in October, and it was a very, very busy salon.

So by the time the springtime had rolled around that following year, that's when we got into wedding and prom and pageant and special event season, and all of the designers were very heavily booked.

That was when, you know, we worked with tons of assistants, double booking all day long.

So when we started getting phone calls for those types of hairdressing appointments, it made more sense to them to send me to those types of trainings so I could then take those clients on the side and not interfere with their previously scheduled chemical and cut and hair color services.

So I actually learned how to dress hair before I learned how to cut or color hair.

And I think that may be.

I don't know if it's the reason or if it was just happy accident that that's still kind of where my heart is, you know, but by the time I was, I would say, six or nine months into my apprenticeship, I was taking clients for updos and heat setting and special event hair and that sort of thing.

And it was at least another six to nine months before I got comfortable with any other kind of, you know, client service.

Unsupervised client services.

Nice.

Nice.

So, so you, you go through training program for about a year and a half, but maybe.

And you're, you're at the slum for six years, so call it five, five, five years on the floor at least, building clients.

How did you, how and why did you make a move and what was that move?

Well, at the time, again, six years, it seemed like a really long time to have a job 20 years ago.

And so I, I had every intention of retiring from that salon.

You know, I had everything that I needed there, all the resources I needed, access to the industry, definitely, you know, at the top of the game in terms of like, education and skills, you know, and opportunities for us as we were growing as stylists.

The challenge came for me when the business grew.

And the, the simplest way to say it is, it just outgrew me.

Now, as a 20 year salon owner, I understand the importance of revenue and numbers and paying the bills and make sure people show up for work and all of those things that you think your boss is being a jerk about until you have to do it.

But the most condensed version is that the salon owner's priorities shifted very dramatically at that point.

And it just didn't align with where I felt like my relationship with my clients was going.

And definitely my relationship with my career.

You know, it sort of turned into the, as my granddaddy would say, the salt mines.

You know, you just kind of go in there from sun up to sundown.

You hustle, you bust it, you set goals, you achieve those goals.

It's a great feeling whenever you do that.

And then the next thing you know, that goal becomes your minimum.

And so.

Yeah, exactly.

It just kind of got to the point to where I felt like there were unrealistic expectations of me that was making me feel like the time and effort and work that I had put into my career was not paying off in ways that it already Had.

Right.

I felt like I was taking a step back in how I valued myself in my career and how I saw myself long term.

At that point again, six years in seemed like a really long time.

And so I thought, am I going to be able to do this forever?

So actually approached my boss, the salon owner, with this sort of scenario, you know, and said, I just feel like I need to find more balance so I can be who I need to be for you.

This is a genuine conversation I had.

I said, I need to be who I need to be for you.

I had become their sort of director of education at the time we started doing insulin education.

But I also need to be the person I need to be for my clients.

And I'd like to enjoy just a teeny bit of time off every now and then, you know, like a day, a week.

Right.

And essentially she told me to love it or leave it, and so I had to go.

Honestly, I think not to get too deep in the weeds with it.

I think that she knew the opportunity that she provided for us, and we did too.

And it was incredible.

And that was enough for us, the staff, to sort of power through the cons of the pro and con list, you know, and eventually it got to where the balance was just in the other direction.

And I. I don't think that she saw that from the team perspective.

So when she presented me with the only options I have are to keep doing what I'm doing this way indefinitely or leave, then it wasn't my choice.

You know, I just sort of said, I gotta go then.

Thanks for the memories.

Yeah, yeah.

You know, that's actually.

That's a very common story where the business is one way and then something occurs with the perfect.

Usually there's like something that happens in the pers.

In the owner's life that causes them to look at their business differently.

Or they wake up one day and they'd be like, wait a minute, do I make any money in this business?

Been there, done that.

Look, I have a whole different kind of sympathy for the whole situation, you know, it's so true that that happens.

It's just, I think that the way that you approach the solution, you know, there.

There are a lot of different ways to approach the solution, and different solutions work for different business owners, you know?

Well, and I was going to say, when I talked to.

I talked.

We talked to a lot of students, the hairdresser, strong.

And the way they did all of that, all of that, like, super structured on goals and monetary.

They feel like they Just get diminished into cheap salespeople and they, no long, they.

It's kind of like the art and the business and it's like it's too much business which makes, which, you know, even if the art is the same, the business goes up so much.

The discrepancy between the thing that they love doing and the thing that the business wants them to do.

There's a huge break.

And that's why we're seeing a lot of students not wanting to go into multi location businesses or, or, or, or hyper like structured spaces like that.

But I don't, I don't think you need to have no structure and I don't think you necessarily need to have no goals.

I just, I, I've, I've heard this.

I think that, I think that we evolved in a way where it kind of, there's like a, like a separation because like at one point when I was in going to schools and talking to students, they were, they were excited to go to these bigger box or, or, or, or multi location spaces or really big salons because of the economies of scale they enjoyed and the perks of, of being there and the, the training programs and the, in the, in the, in the retreats and all that stuff.

And, but now it seems like that's not the interest.

It's almost like, it's almost like a cultural shift and the industry, you know, it might come back, but it does seem like these bigger salons and multi location spaces are either having to lower their brand value and go to a lower price point to appeal to this customer or, or they're having, or they're having trouble kind of like, you know, attracting, hiring and retaining stylists.

So anyway, that was my little side sidebar.

I'm glad that you, so you are your.

So what is your move?

Is that when you open up a salon?

Technically?

No.

I honestly walked out of the meeting with that kind of like what did I just do?

I had a mortgage at the time, I had car, I had grown up bills at this point.

And I guess the reciprocal, I kind of expected her to be like, oh, never mind, we can work this out, you know.

So I didn't know what to do.

And at the time, booth rent was the only really other option besides a commission salon as it relates to not being in a corporately branded kind of position.

Now we have salon suites, all that kind of thing.

And so I thought, well, you know, I've got to do hair.

So I found a booth rental salon that was close to where I lived and at the time, we were still under very strict and enforced non competes with, you know, mile radius around the location.

So I actually put an ad in the classified section of the newspaper that tells you when this was.

And I just put a photograph of myself and a big, you know, a big quarter page ad that just said I wanted to thank all of my clients who had supported my career up to this point.

I'll be operating out of this location moving forward.

So even though she tried, she couldn't see me because I did not mention her.

I didn't try to take anything away.

It was just a gratitude, you know, sort of post, I guess, if you will.

And so I started renting a booth and had zero clients.

This was again, in a situation, if not a time, when there was no sharing of client information.

If you leave, you leave with nada.

It was like being in the mob, you know, you're in or you're out.

And I learned very quickly because I had built such strong relationships with the clients that were in my chair, and so many of them had been such a part of my journey.

Right.

I still have clients 26 years later that were in my chair when I was 20 years old, you know, doing $25 haircuts and not good ones.

And so I learned really, really quickly that the relationships that I had built with those people who were in my chair were way stronger than their dedication to a salon or a brand or the things that I thought as a stylist, you know, from the inside, looking out did matter to the consumer.

Now we're in a place where people do know more about, you know, continued education and that type of thing.

But it was a really good eye opener because they started finding me and they would, you know, so.

And so Birmingham is a small town, even though it's a big city, you know, so this person knew that person and I heard he went there.

And of course, the rumors go everywhere.

We didn't even have Facebook back then.

I mean, this is long before social media.

And so people started calling and they started showing up.

And within about six months, I was renting two booth spaces.

I had hired an assistant out of pocket, of course, providing all my own supplies and hair color and that sort of thing.

And then she even had us rent space on the retail shelf for.

For home maintenance products if we wanted to provide sales for that kind of thing.

So it just sort of the numbers.

When I started running the numbers and looking at the cost of me operating out of this, it was a really sweet space in the south.

And it didn't align with the future of where I saw my personal brand going, the environment that I wanted to provide for my clients, the quality of service, the quality of experience that I wanted them to have started being more compromised, especially as I got busy.

And so when I looked at the cost, it just, I thought, if I can find a space to rent on my own for what it's now costing me to rent two booths and a retail shelf, I may as well give it a try.

And so I sort of accidentally opened a salon and it went very well.

I was in an area that at the time, I knew that it was an up and coming residential area.

So there was nothing in that part of town.

Nothing.

In fact, the lady I was renting the booth from would always.

It drove her crazy because she was like, there's nobody out there.

There's nothing there.

And I said, well, that's kind of the point, you know, being like at that point Close to 10 years in, you know, and seeing that, you know, this area town has this salon that is kind of like they own that market and this area time town has this salon that kind of owns that market.

I didn't want to try to compete or encroach on somebody's territory, you know, and that sort of thing.

And coincidentally, my 10 mile non compete encompassed a good bit of that, so the heavily populated areas.

So I thought, you know, this is something that's up and coming.

The rent is still low because there's really not many much out here.

So I gave it a try and I ended up being in that location for 15 years and went through countless staffing and employees and assistants and that sort of thing.

But it just sort of pushed me in the direction that I never wanted to go.

I never wanted to own my own business.

I saw what it had done to her and sort of took away a little bit of the glitz and the glamour of the idea, you know what I mean, of being.

Being the boss or being at, you know, the top, the top of the totem pole.

So just kind of like my career, it sort of picked me.

I just ended up in a space.

I just wanted somewhere to work in peace and not have to worry about who's saying what and what kind of hair is walking out of the building that they think is part of my business too, you know, and.

And so I just kind of landed in this little space in a medical building actually.

And that's where the roots started to grow.

So this, this all sounds so awesome.

So what did you.

Did you Are you booth rental or commission?

So I'm a commission salon, always have been, since I first opened.

And kind of to your point earlier, I really have learned a lot about the pressures and the unknowns that come along, you know, with, with having that type of salon.

And really I think the biggest issue that commission salon owners, specifically because that's my experience, have is this sort of trust that everything's going to be okay, you know, like, as long as I'm providing what I need to, they'll give me what I need, everybody will make their money, we'll go home.

And in an ideal world, it can be that simple.

But knowing the most important thing for me from day one has always been that my clients that come in under my brand into my salon have an experience that I want to provide for them.

And it is a practical approach that in the state of Alabama, for me to have that much control over my staff and my work environment, I have to have employees that pay taxes.

And I pay taxes too.

That means no independent contractors, which is what a booth rent is.

So it wasn't necessarily by design that a commission salon.

It was just the way that the only way that I learned that I could have that type of focus on what I was providing for all the clients that come in the building was to be an employer.

And so that's how I ended up as a commission salon.

And it ain't easy, let me tell you.

There is no simple equation, there's no simple formula.

There are millions of variables.

But I'm proud to say that my commission based salon business has survived 20 years now, you know, through multiple recessions and economic things and all different types of things that have happened.

It hasn't always been easy, but because it was, it was so important to me to be able to have control over what I'm providing for my client, whether that means me personally or someone who represents my brand, that it's been worth the effort that it takes to make sure that I'm running the business side of my business to support the brand instead of vice versa.

Instead of trying to get, you know, the brand and the hair and that sort of thing to support the dollars and cents, you know.

Right.

Well this, this sounds like great story.

So at what point in time did you start working with brands?

Did that start before while you were still working for that other person, or did that not start until you're on your own?

Unofficially, I assisted.

You know, I did some work at the other salon in that kind of arena.

But no, it really started when I Was out on my own.

And honestly, I sort of hung that on a nail whenever I left the salon.

It was one of the things that kept me there because I thought those opportunities came through there came through her.

So when I opened my own business, that became my focus and my priority.

And, you know, when you are 100% of the revenue for your entire business, that doesn't leave a lot of spare time, you know.

But I have a very, very dear friend of mine now who at the time was a sales rep.

He still is, but again, we had built just such a great relationship through the way that he supported me as a small business owner, as an independent business owner, him understanding the business side of the business, we just really developed a really close relationship.

And so when the opportunity to work for Keratin complex, which is where I really got my start as an independent educator, they were getting ready to launch their first line of hair color.

And because the brand at that time was seeing such tremendous success in the smoothing category, they didn't have enough hands on deck to spread them any thinner than they already were.

So they started hiring for educators.

And they very specific, they very specifically were looking for educators who could kind of train the brand and then get straight out there and do the work.

And Kevin was instrumental in making that happen.

In fact, we see, we still tease each other.

He still says he's my manager and he's waiting for his paycheck.

I always tell him I'm waiting for mine too.

But he basically said, if you don't apply for this position, I'm going to write you up a resume that I think sounds good, and I'm going to send it to him.

So if you will at least write it, at least it'll be true.

But you're applying for this position.

So of course I was like, okay, fine, I'll go, whatever you say.

And so went to this initial training again, that was in 2010, got hired right away.

Absolutely loved working for the brand.

You know, initially the leadership was great.

That sort of started this sort of trend in my career of being a part of the startup part of these departments, you know, so because they were just launching hair color, they were just learning how to launch hair color.

They were learning how to teach hair color.

They were learning how to train educators in teaching hair color.

And it's exciting for me.

I like being the person that you can say, we're going to try this for three or four days.

If it doesn't work, we'll scratch that, move on to the next thing.

But the discovery process was so exciting for me and to have a chance to build, again, relationships.

You'll hear me say that a lot because it's just.

It's important to me in my career and life, but to build relationships with the people who it mattered to, you know, like, these are the people that created this.

And they wanted people who represented them and their passion accurately in a way that would want other people to be involved too.

So I got started as a color educator with them, moved very quickly into teaching, smoothing and hair color.

And I worked with that brand for almost 10 years.

They went through a few corporate changes, as companies do, especially privately owned companies.

I think it's fair to say that everybody wants to build a brand and make a little money on it if that means selling it.

And once again, it just sort of outgrew me.

You know, the corporate footprint overshadowed the relationships in the artistry that I felt like I had built previously.

And so this was right after quarantine.

They changed their structure pretty dramatically, including their pay structure.

And so I humbly resigned from the position there.

Yeah.

So that's.

That's kind of how I got my feet wet.

Okay, so how did you know about the position?

The position was presented to me by a colleague.

Okay.

Yeah, Kevin thanks me.

Yeah, my sales rep, Kevin, he presented it to me and said, basically, this ain't for everybody, but I think you'd be good for it.

And do you think that's a good place for.

For people to start, is talk to their sales reps and ask them what type of up.

Are there any opportunities that they know about with any brands?

Unconditionally?

Yes.

Okay.

Absolutely.

Yes.

And it's funny, because having as long of a career as I have had so far, you know, these relationships you had to build in person.

Right.

And knowing them helped me to trust them when they said, I feel like this would be a good fit for you.

Right.

So I think that reaching out to your sales reps, that in education, our job is to sell the product.

And I think it's something that, as educators, we lose track of sometimes.

And even, like influencers and creators, we lose track that a brand affiliation.

Our job is to sell the product.

Well, who else's job is that?

The sales rep.

Right.

And so in my personal experience, my sales reps see the value of how I can enhance their sales.

I can make their job easier.

They see the fit working, you know, because it's not like everybody who needs an educator wants Jeremy, you know, and so to me, that was really like the Seed that got planted that I could do this on my own was because of someone who worked in the industry who reached out to me and they said, I just think you should go for it.

Trust me on this one.

I think you should go for it.

And I did.

Awesome.

Well, okay, so that I know we're.

We're coming up on time.

Are you able to go over a little bit or you got a. Yeah, absolutely.

Yeah, I'm here for you.

Yeah.

I'd like to tell you how I got in with Babel is too.

Okay, then.

Yeah, so that was.

I would love to hear.

Okay, so you got.

You.

You.

You learn about the opportunity or sales rep really kind of nudges you along and you go for it.

You have a great experience.

Do you just work with them, one brand?

Do you?

And from start to finish and then.

And then what is the next thing?

So, yes, with them.

I worked with the one brand, start to finish with them.

And it was practical.

It was a lot of work doing hair color and smoothing.

I was southeast regional educator when I first started, became national.

A lot of driving.

So there just wasn't time for me to do anything else.

You know, after I left again, I kind of thought so much for that.

I had just opened my second salon location 45 days before we shut down for quarantine.

And so when we.

Yeah, so when we got back, it was kind of like, well, I definitely need to have my focus where it needs to be anyway.

So this is just a good opportunity to step out.

Right.

Well, fast forward.

And I started getting phone calls from people who I had worked under for a different brand.

So my supervisors, who were my immediate and kind of a level up supervisor who I reported directly to also, you know, had sort of left and moved on to other brands.

Which happens, you know, that better opportunities arise in corporate too.

And because of the work that they had seen me do for this particular brand, they saw it as an opportunity to bring me on board to help them establish this team that they were establishing for a new brand.

So one of my bosses at Carrington Complex became an education manager at Babelist Pro.

They very much like living Proof, didn't have a pro focused division of the company.

It just sort of understood that pros and consumers alike like the product.

And so they were establishing this sort of pro education team.

And she essentially called up and said, I don't know what we're going to be doing, but I know I can trust you to do it.

If you're interested, let's do this thing.

And Talk about family.

That was a very, very unexpected turn of events.

And what was so cool about it was that it was the work that I performed elsewhere that I felt wasn't necessarily recognized as much as I didn't feel like I was getting as much as I had put into it.

But I got it back in a different place.

I, you know, I made sure I left on good terms.

I didn't throw a hissy fit.

I never had anything disparaging to say about the brand.

Still don't.

Or the leadership.

It was just not a good fit anymore.

And it offered me an opportunity to do something that I love way better.

You know, now I teach hairdressing and styling and all those things I talked about earlier that are really where my heart is.

Now I get to do that work because I did the work that was available to me the absolute best that I possibly could.

I took the coaching.

I took the advice.

I didn't buck my supervisor.

Even when I thought their ideas were stupid, I did it anyway.

And I'm stubborn.

This is something I tell my team, too.

If you think I have a stupid idea, prove it.

Do it my way, and I'll see that it's stupid, and I'll know that my idea is stupid.

Right.

So that's the way that I approach things when it comes to leadership.

You know, if I don't agree, that's not my job.

My job is to follow my leader.

And so there have been a good balance of times when it was like, okay, well, it wasn't that bad.

You know, that actually was a good idea.

I guess I'll do that.

As much as there were times whenever my voice was heard because I waited until it was time to speak, you know, because I went through the process.

And so that's where that opportunity came from.

That sort of expanded into everything else.

Another supervisor of mine from Keratin complex, then subsequently went on through a couple of brands, ended up at Living Proof when they were establishing their education department.

He kind of called me up and was like, I don't know what we're doing, but I'd like for you to try it with us.

So the.

The expansion of this part of my career has really come from work that I felt undervalued at some point with, but did it anyway because I can.

And I like hair and I like work, and I like making money.

So that's kind of an easy equation.

I just wanted to make sure that even a bad day was a good day for me.

So the opportunities that have come since then Were all totally unexpected, but the ones that were presented to me were a result of work that I had done somewhere else.

Nice.

Nice.

This is so good.

So, so it sounds like, you know, not.

You didn't explicitly say it, but I picked up on like some advice for those out there who want to work with brands.

You know, I feel like you gave them a little bit of like etiquette advice on how to, on how to, how to act, how to behave.

Because like, even if you don't like it, you want to be seen as professional.

And it does seem, and correct me if I'm wrong, it does seem like the brands, you know, they have, they're looking for a spec, a certain type of person that works well within the corporate framework.

Would you say that that's accurate?

Very much so.

And it's been one of.

When my career on this side, when my career in the industry side really started taking off, it's whenever I realized that, that the decision makers are the people behind the scenes.

Right.

So very much that.

I have a friend who works in reality television production and so I always ask him for advice.

You know, I feel like this is a very front facing, you know, kind of part of our career too.

And he said the number one piece of advice that he could offer you is that you need to be easy to work with.

That means follow directions, show up on time, do what's expected, exceed expectations, be easy to work with.

Because once people understand that you're easy to work with, then your voice is a part of the conversation instead of an interruption in the conversation.

So you mean like when I hire somebody and they on the first day tell me that they should, that, that you know, there's a better way to do this thing?

That's not the attitude that we're talking about.

Absolutely.

I'll do it and then I'll establish a relationship and then I'll tell you my opinions?

Absolutely.

Think about it from the other perspective.

It's like when you have a client in your chair, what kind of experience would you want to have if you were there?

Right.

So if someone comes to me and they're training me, they've hired me to do a position that they are paying me to do, which means that's my boss.

Just like the person in the chair is my boss.

You know, if I feel like what they're instructing me to do can be done in a better way.

First of all, how do I know that if I haven't tried their way first?

Right.

So let's just check ego for a second and say, your way is probably great, you know, and you probably do have really great ideas that just need an opportunity to be seen and heard.

But how do you know if it's better than what you're being presented with if you don't at least try it, you know?

So definitely checking back, I. I know that I still have things to bring to the table in this industry and with these brands that I just haven't had the opportunity to present, you know, so when you are given an opportunity, show those people that you can be who they need for you to be to represent that brand.

You're your own brand.

You have to figure out a way to marry that brand together.

Right?

So your techniques, your methods, your ways of doing things that work great for you, that you feel like would benefit other stylists by sharing that information.

In the education world, there will be a place for that.

But you have got to go through the process of helping the powers that be, the decision makers, the ones that are going to give you those opportunities.

You need to let them know that you understand your job is to represent their brand when you're under their umbrella.

Right?

So don't give up.

Don't feel like nobody cares or that you, you know, whatever reason, you just feel like you've got to get this thing out of you, that you want to present it.

The time will come.

Ask I ask for yearly reviews.

I request.

I say, I'd like a performance review.

I have some ideas I'd like to discuss with you.

And so that gives them a chance to tell me how they feel like I've done, you know, if I've done my job well, it gives me a clearer position to approach from and say, well, since I' that job really well, I think I have some ideas that could help me do it even better.

Right.

So then I'm adding to the conversation that they have presented to me instead of trying to bulldoze my way through a situation that there's so many layers that you don't even know, you know, what goes in behind that, that I think that above all, being easy to work with is one of the things that definitely will get you a lot further for a lot long term, a lot more long term in this industry.

Nice.

Awesome.

So, well, I have to ask before we wrap it up, because we are kind of getting up on the time and I appreciate you extending a little more time to share with us.

Can you.

We started off with Living Proof direct to consumer, and you were like, that's interesting.

Could you Go ahead and tell us a little bit about that experience.

And you know, I, I'm curious, yeah, I'm curious to know how that happened and what your thoughts are and why you said that's interesting that you said that or, or whatever you said in the beginning, you kind of alluded to there's more to this.

So.

Yeah, well, even as a professional, you know, and again I came up in an era where if it was available in the store, it's not a salon product.

And we, that's been ingrained into our head for so long and it's part of our like DNA that if you can buy it somewhere besides my salon shelf, it's not a professional product.

Right.

And so just, I mean in general that's just not true anymore.

Everything is direct to consumer.

Everything is available on TikTok shop and Amazon and online and everything else.

So for me, the challenge when I was approached with this was exactly that.

I thought, well, now here I am going to be having the same thing they can get at Ulta and Sephora, you know, sitting on my salon shelves.

How does that coincide with my brand message?

Right.

So the first thing I did was use it and it knocked my socks off.

It's, you know, this isn't a commercial, it's a science based brand.

It legitimately works the way that it's supposed to.

But what I found was when I stopped spending my clients money for them, they wanted to spend it with me.

So what started happening was I started using these products so I could learn it.

You know, the opportunity was there, I was going to take the opportunity.

It was a yes for me from the beginning, right.

When in terms of education and content creation.

But when I started using the product in the salon and they really loved it, they would take a picture of the product and walk straight past my retail shelves and go down to Ulta and buy it.

So then I started talking to my clients because ultimately these are the people that make the decisions for your business, right?

And I said if I bring this in the salon, would you rather buy it here or there?

And they said, I would much rather buy it from you.

Actually, again, these people support us, they support our business, they want to see us succeed.

And whenever I have a product, this is one of the things that's been crazy.

So I have a full shelf of products, a full shelf of products with a living proof label on it.

That's the same thing that they see when they go to Sephora and Ulta and other major million and billion dollar corporations have on Their shelves.

I have it on my shelf too.

So not only did it increase the value of the retail portion of my salon business, but it enhanced it because they already knew that that was the best dry shampoo on the market.

One sold every six seconds.

So when I would recommend this new product that they'd never tried before, and they're standing in front of my retail shelf, they go ahead and stock up on a couple of dry shampoos too.

So they didn't have to make a trip down to the retailer.

Right.

So that's what was so interesting to me is I was a little bit hesitant, you know, to make the association because of this sort of like retail world mentality that a lot of us are in.

But I think it's really, really important that whenever you are looking into brands that you want to represent and brands that you want to coincide with, you know, again, this is my brand reputation, you know, that I'm looking at.

Also know the product.

Don't say yes to everything.

Get it in your hands, ask questions, get them to really, you know, feed you the information that you need.

Use it, ask your clients what they think about it.

So when you have these opportunities, don't we all have a tendency to walk in with sort of a preconceived notion or sort of like you either have to convince me yes or convince me no.

You're already lean in one direction or the other.

When you open up your mind to the idea that you may be wrong and this may be something that you didn't see coming because you were looking in the other direction.

Right.

You're going to end up with opportunities that were way more than what you thought it would and it's easier.

I'm not having to force this.

I'm not having to convince people to buy it off my shelves.

I'm not having to pretend like I like it because I said yes so I could get an Instagram contract.

You know, it's a brand and a product.

Same thing with Babelist Pro.

Their tools are the best on the market.

You know, like when I was approached with the opportunity, I was like, hell yeah, I use those anyway when I learned exactly how they're being made, you know, it's like this is the reason why they're the best, right?

So don't cut yourself off to opportunities.

But you don't have to be all in everything if you don't feel like it's something that's essential, sustainable, long term relationship that brings value to your brand as much as you bell.

But bring value to their brand.

Well, this has been amazing.

This is so good.

Like I definitely feel confident that people got some value out of this.

Yeah, I mean we got, if we think about it like if the students watching this or the new talent rising stylist, I feel like you got a little bit of a, a pathway, a, A, a pathway to this.

You can, you can kind of like also take some of the steps that Jeremy took later, like talking to your sales rep while you're going through training and signaling to them that you're interested and then like, you know, continue to go through your training.

Also how to behave and perform and the etiquette.

I think this is awesome.

And also some perspective and insight on the various, you know, types of brands, how they engage with our, our industry, etc.

I think this was good.

Where can, where can people find you and, and do you, and do you have any last minute pieces of advice before we sign off?

The easiest way to find me is going to be on Instagram.

I'm at Jeremy Stevens underscore official and that's Stevens with a ph.

I'm dabbling in the TikTok, but I'm also a mid century old man.

So like I'm doing my best.

But Jeremy Stevens underscore official everywhere.

I'm at that, that, that's my handle.

Tidbits of advice I guess I would offer is the number one thing that has helped me in the places where I am, in the places I see myself going is always consider the sustainability of the commitment.

Whether that's financially from an integrity perspective or whatever.

Whatever you're doing now to gain success is what you need to plan to do indefinitely to retain it.

And that's behind the chair and in the industry.

Love it.

David.

Well, thank you so much for your time.

This has been a pleasure.

I took some notes on things that if you enjoyed it too, maybe we could talk about like this whole thing about managing people and retaining and hiring.

I think that's a huge topic.

And also like I thought I was thinking exclusive brands versus widely available brands.

I think that would be a really interesting conversation.

Love to have that conversation.

Awesome.

Awesome.

Well, until next time.

Thank you so much.

We will be in touch when this is gonna drop.

It'll drop sooner than later, but have a wonderful day and thank you so much.

Thanks a lot.

I'll look forward to next time.

All right.

All right, well, take care.

Bye bye.